I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster
sort of look is preferred.
2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink
glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
with placemats when necessary?
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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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>
> That hasn't been my experience. For example, a while back I put on four
>
> coats of semi-gloss poly, four hours between coats, no sanding. In a day it
>
> was plenty hard, little smell but it was almost as shiny as glossy, took
>
> about two weeks before it settled down to semi-gloss.
I stand corrected. Hmmm... interesting results. I've never recoated so fast so haven't seen such a scenario. I also always thin the heck and don't ever let build to much of a plastic coat.
I assume each coat skins over but never fully gasses off, then having several coats in that state causes the whole process to slow down. Does the can say it can be recoated so soon?
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:16:46 PM UTC-8, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster=20
>=20
> sort of look is preferred.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink=
=20
>=20
> glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops=
=20
>=20
> with placemats when necessary?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ---
>=20
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus prot=
ection is active.
>=20
> http://www.avast.com
I know people will shit all over my response but I use wipe on poly finish =
all the time on fine furniture pieces.
Dye, stain and or oil the piece as desired. Then use flat or low sheen wipe=
on poly. I mix my own using standard ploy with 3 parts mineral spirits to =
one part poly. Or use Minwax wipe on poly (lets hear the flames) Be sure to=
stir the poly well (it has flattners that need to be suspended). Also if y=
ou mix your own you have to mix it really well to get the poly well distrib=
uted in the mineral spirits and re-mix often.
Wash on the first coat with a brush and really soak the piece. Then wipe it=
down immediately with a damp smooth cloth (damp with same finish). Wipe it=
all off and do NOT re-wipe already wiped areas.. Watch for seep at joints =
and moldings and re-wipe those areas for several minutes. When it dries it =
might/should look like almost nothing was done.
Wait 8 hours or more. Wet a smooth cloth and wipe it all down wet again, th=
en re-wipe clean with a damp cloth leaving the slightest coverage. Again, w=
atch for seep at joints and moldings and remove.
Let dry 8 hours or more. super lightly rub down with worn out 400 or 600 pa=
per or even steel wool (if you don't have nooks that will fill with shaving=
s). You can add one or two more coats but honestly this is all you need unl=
ess it is a bar top.
Wax lightly using a scrub pad or steel wool and buff it out.
FYI, if you leave build up at joints, corners or molding seams, even flat p=
oly will look shiney in those locations so be careful to wipe it out.
On 2/14/2014 11:04 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:47:47 PM UTC-8, Ed
>> Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> Poly. Yes, poly. You need at least four coats,
>>> sanding between. After
>>>
>>> the last coat, let it cure for at least 3 weeks. Wet
>>> sand, rub with
>>>
>>> pumice, rottenstone, then wax. It will be smooth, have
>>> a nice luster
>>>
>>> and be durable.
>>
>> If you are using any production poly after 12 hours that
>> sucker is 100% cured. If you have some sort of oil hybrid
>> without drying solvents maybe, but true poly dries slow
>> (over many hours) but not days unless it is so thick it
>> will crack anyway.
>
> That hasn't been my experience. For example, a while back I put on four
> coats of semi-gloss poly, four hours between coats, no sanding. In a day it
> was plenty hard, little smell but it was almost as shiny as glossy, took
> about two weeks before it settled down to semi-gloss.
>
Correct, there is a difference between drying and curing. Most poly is
dry to handle in 12 hours or so, but for any oil finish, curing takes
much longer. It is usually advised not to put things in contact with
paint or poly finishes for at least a week, sometimes two months.
Just as concrete can be walked on in hours, but it is not fully cured
for years.
On Friday, February 14, 2014 10:32:00 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
=20
> Correct, there is a difference between drying and curing. Most poly is=20
>=20
> dry to handle in 12 hours or so, but for any oil finish, curing takes=20
>=20
> much longer. It is usually advised not to put things in contact with=20
>=20
> paint or poly finishes for at least a week, sometimes two months.
The industry standard for poly to cure out is 21 days. =20
http://goo.gl/ZwEOcY
You can see many manufacturers use that as their cure date and professional=
finishers rely on that. Humidity, temps, aggregate thickness of multiple =
coats, etc., all determine the final amount of days needed. But... 21 is th=
e industry standard for low abrasion polyurethanes.
To determine the correct amount of time needed between coats as well as how=
thick to apply each coat of finish, one should look at the individual MSDS=
and application information from each individual manufacturer.
Although folks feel like they are more involved in applying a professional =
type finish, today's polys don't need thinning. Nor do they need sanding b=
etween coats. The ONLY time I sand, scuff, disturb a poly finish is to rem=
ove a nib or critter. Never, ever, have I had witness lines, peeling, or l=
ack of adhesion. After all... even Minwax says sanding between coats is un=
necessary in their literature.
Greg, you should look around for anything that Bob Flexner writes about fin=
ishing. His books are great, his articles are great, and he learned finish=
ing by actually working in a finishing shop doing both application and repa=
ir so he had plenty of opportunities to see what worked and what didn't.
Robert
On 2/13/2014 4:58 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Spilling alcohol on the finish might damage it if you mix really strong
>>
>> drinks, but cleaning off any wax and rubbing on another coat will fix it
>>
>> quickly.
>>
>
> Let a small pool of beer set on a waxed shellac finish for 20 minutes. Then tell me it is a safe finish for utility table tops.
>
I think he was referring to how to repair the damage vs indicating there
would be no damage.
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:33:18 PM UTC-6, G. Ross wrote:
> I'm a pessimist and a klutz. I envision a spill running over the edge
>
> and wicking up under the glass. That means moving all the lamps and
>
> junk and cleaning it up before it damages the finish. Then I would
>
> drop the glass on the dog, etc, etc.
Try tempered glass. If laid flat on the table, you would really have to work to break it.
Pretty good ideas from Leon, too.
Robert
On 2/12/2014 7:33 PM, G. Ross wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/12/2014 4:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>
>>> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the
>>> tops
>>> with placemats when necessary?
>>
>> There is always glass. Finish like you want, protect the top with glass:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopArtsCraftsStyleEndTable200303?noredirect=1#5679351496259490898
>>
>>
>> Has survived countless cold and hot drinks, and a few spills and the top
>> looks brand new.
>>
>
> I'm a pessimist and a klutz. I envision a spill running over the edge
> and wicking up under the glass. That means moving all the lamps and
> junk and cleaning it up before it damages the finish. Then I would drop
> the glass on the dog, etc, etc.
Can I interest you in an insurance policy?
;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Swingman wrote:
> On 2/12/2014 4:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
>> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
>> with placemats when necessary?
>
> There is always glass. Finish like you want, protect the top with glass:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopArtsCraftsStyleEndTable200303?noredirect=1#5679351496259490898
>
> Has survived countless cold and hot drinks, and a few spills and the top
> looks brand new.
>
I'm a pessimist and a klutz. I envision a spill running over the edge
and wicking up under the glass. That means moving all the lamps and
junk and cleaning it up before it damages the finish. Then I would
drop the glass on the dog, etc, etc.
--
GW Ross
Keep your feet close to the ground.
On 2/12/2014 4:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>
> 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster
> sort of look is preferred.
Use a satin wipe on varnish or a gel varnish. Keep building coats until
you just start to notice the built up look. Basically, don't over do it.
> 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink
> glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
Not a good combination regardless of the finish. Wipe up ASAP or use
coasters.
>
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
> with placemats when necessary?
Apply plenty of the varnish finish, practice on scraps. If you put on
too much you can always sand it back to bare wood and put on fewer coats.
Still you don't want liquids to be on the surface for much more that a
short while.
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:47:47 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/12/2014 5:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
> > I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>
> >
>
> > 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster
>
> > sort of look is preferred.
>
> >
>
> > 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink
>
> > glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
>
> >
>
> > Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
>
> > with placemats when necessary?
>
>
>
> Poly. Yes, poly. You need at least four coats, sanding between. After
>
> the last coat, let it cure for at least 3 weeks. Wet sand, rub with
>
> pumice, rottenstone, then wax. It will be smooth, have a nice luster
>
> and be durable.
If you are using any production poly after 12 hours that sucker is 100% cured. If you have some sort of oil hybrid without drying solvents maybe, but true poly dries slow (over many hours) but not days unless it is so thick it will crack anyway.
=20
>=20
> I recoat as soon as I can walk on it which is about 4 hours, sometimes a =
bit=20
>=20
> more, sometimes a bit less depending on temperature, humidity and - of=20
>=20
> course - how thick. Can says no sanding needed between coats if reapplie=
d=20
>=20
> within 8 hours.
>=20
OK we are talking floors now and this is a whole different level of thickne=
ss than I am thinking about for furniture. I remember the first time I spra=
yed poly on a piece of furniture. After the second coat it was like it was =
covered in plastic . I steel wooled that coffee table and side tables for w=
eek and waxed them a few times with scrub pads and still to this day wish I=
would have re-built them for the customer who signed off on one of my lacq=
uer finish samples but requested poly for more durability.
I used water based poly on floor recently and loved it, applied with a pad.
On 2/12/2014 5:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>
> 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster
> sort of look is preferred.
>
> 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink
> glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
>
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
> with placemats when necessary?
Poly. Yes, poly. You need at least four coats, sanding between. After
the last coat, let it cure for at least 3 weeks. Wet sand, rub with
pumice, rottenstone, then wax. It will be smooth, have a nice luster
and be durable.
Greg Guarino wrote:
> I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>
> 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural, low-luster
> sort of look is preferred.
>
> 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost certainly have drink
> glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with ice.
>
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
> with placemats when necessary?
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
I have used General Finishes wipe on Poly on Maple, Oak, Walnut, cherry
and have found that after staining of your choice, 2-4 coats of 'gloss'
(depending on usage) and a finish coat of 'satin' works very well. No
water rings, no hot/cold problem, nice finish. Multi coats of satin will
make it look cloudy, thus the gloss base coats.
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I have two quite possibly contradictory requirements.
>
> 1. The finish should not look "built up". A more natural,
> low-luster sort of look is preferred.
>
> 2. The pieces in question (end tables) will almost
> certainly have drink glasses on them from time to time. Maybe even with
> ice.
>
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply
> cover the tops with placemats when necessary?
Tung oil. Place mats are always useful.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:16:46 -0500, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
> with placemats when necessary?
I've never been able to damage a cured de-waxed shellac finish by setting
drink glasses on it - with or without ice.
Spilling alcohol on the finish might damage it if you mix really strong
drinks, but cleaning off any wax and rubbing on another coat will fix it
quickly.
Don't take my word for it. Wipe 3 or 4 coats of Zinnser SealCoat on a
test piece. Let it dry for a week and then set those icy glasses on it.
Bet you won't see any damage.
Make sure the SealCoat is fresh. The first digit (after the initial
character) is the year, the next is the month.
All that said, my wife would never let anyone set a drink on a piece of
good furniture without a coaster :-).
--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014
Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> Don't take my word for it. Wipe 3 or 4 coats of Zinnser SealCoat on a
> test piece. Let it dry for a week and then set those icy glasses on
> it. Bet you won't see any damage.
Very good advise. As a believer in using test pieces, I just do not
understand why so many people seem to look for quick advise rather than go
the route of test pieces. There simply is no such thing as a universal
answer that can be given over the internet - despite how simplistic a poster
wants to make a question sound, that defies the need to test. "Oh... I just
wanted to know if..."
>
> All that said, my wife would never let anyone set a drink on a piece
> of good furniture without a coaster :-).
Preach it brother. It's just crazy how many people want the best of all
worlds. They want a finish that does not look like poly, or they don't want
poly, and they want water and alcohol resistance, and they don't want to put
a week's worth of work into the finish. Use the damned coaster! You're not
supposed to spill drinks on wood surfaces! Sheese...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2/13/2014 1:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't take my word for it. Wipe 3 or 4 coats of Zinnser SealCoat on a
>> test piece. Let it dry for a week and then set those icy glasses on
>> it. Bet you won't see any damage.
>
> Very good advise. As a believer in using test pieces, I just do not
> understand why so many people seem to look for quick advise rather than go
> the route of test pieces.
That's not an either/or proposition. My garage is littered with test
pieces. But I find advice handy as well, even when the answers are as
varied as the ones I typically get here.
> There simply is no such thing as a universal
> answer that can be given over the internet - despite how simplistic a poster
> wants to make a question sound, that defies the need to test. "Oh... I just
> wanted to know if..."
Of course not.
>
>>
>> All that said, my wife would never let anyone set a drink on a piece
>> of good furniture without a coaster :-).
In my experience, stuff happens, despite wifely vigilance.
> Preach it brother. It's just crazy how many people want the best of all
> worlds. They want a finish that does not look like poly, or they don't want
> poly, and they want water and alcohol resistance, and they don't want to put
> a week's worth of work into the finish.
Everybody would *like* all those things together, but it didn't seem
likely, even to a novice like me. That said, I think that the answers
I've gotten will be helpful, once I digest them down to a dozen or so
methods. :)
Use the damned coaster! You're not
> supposed to spill drinks on wood surfaces! Sheese...
I commend you again to my observation above. Stuff, especially stuff
people aren't "supposed to" do, happens.
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Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 2/13/2014 1:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't take my word for it. Wipe 3 or 4 coats of Zinnser SealCoat
>>> on a test piece. Let it dry for a week and then set those icy
>>> glasses on it. Bet you won't see any damage.
>>
>> Very good advise. As a believer in using test pieces, I just do not
>> understand why so many people seem to look for quick advise rather
>> than go the route of test pieces.
>
> That's not an either/or proposition. My garage is littered with test
> pieces. But I find advice handy as well, even when the answers are as
> varied as the ones I typically get here.
Quite correct sir. My opinion was not a voice against seeking advise,
rather one that encouraged testing. The two come together to make for a
fuller understanding.
>
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:47:47 PM UTC-8, Ed
> Pawlowski wrote:
> > Poly. Yes, poly. You need at least four coats,
> > sanding between. After
> >
> > the last coat, let it cure for at least 3 weeks. Wet
> > sand, rub with
> >
> > pumice, rottenstone, then wax. It will be smooth, have
> > a nice luster
> >
> > and be durable.
>
> If you are using any production poly after 12 hours that
> sucker is 100% cured. If you have some sort of oil hybrid
> without drying solvents maybe, but true poly dries slow
> (over many hours) but not days unless it is so thick it
> will crack anyway.
That hasn't been my experience. For example, a while back I put on four
coats of semi-gloss poly, four hours between coats, no sanding. In a day it
was plenty hard, little smell but it was almost as shiny as glossy, took
about two weeks before it settled down to semi-gloss.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > That hasn't been my experience. For example, a while
> > back I put on four
> >
> > coats of semi-gloss poly, four hours between coats, no
> > sanding. In a day it
> >
> > was plenty hard, little smell but it was almost as
> > shiny as glossy, took
> >
> > about two weeks before it settled down to semi-gloss.
>
> I stand corrected. Hmmm... interesting results. I've
> never recoated so fast so haven't seen such a scenario. I
> also always thin the heck and don't ever let build to
> much of a plastic coat.
>
> I assume each coat skins over but never fully gasses off,
> then having several coats in that state causes the whole
> process to slow down. Does the can say it can be recoated
> so soon?
I recoat as soon as I can walk on it which is about 4 hours, sometimes a bit
more, sometimes a bit less depending on temperature, humidity and - of
course - how thick. Can says no sanding needed between coats if reapplied
within 8 hours.
As Ed mentioned, it really does take a while to cure. I did something a
couple of days ago, only two coats...I'm betting it will still take a couple
of weeks until the shine dies down to semi-gloss.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 22:07:53 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
> The industry standard for poly to cure out is 21 days.
>
A friend, since deceased, always insisted that shellac kept getting
harder forever :-).
> Greg, you should look around for anything that Bob Flexner writes about
> finishing. His books are great, his articles are great, and he learned
> finishing by actually working in a finishing shop doing both application
> and repair so he had plenty of opportunities to see what worked and what
> didn't.
>
I'll second that!
--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014
On 2/12/2014 4:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Can I meet both of these requirements, or should I simply cover the tops
> with placemats when necessary?
There is always glass. Finish like you want, protect the top with glass:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopArtsCraftsStyleEndTable200303?noredirect=1#5679351496259490898
Has survived countless cold and hot drinks, and a few spills and the top
looks brand new.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)