b

19/09/2006 11:04 AM

Stainless steel deck screws: Phillips or Square-Drive?

I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.

I have searched rec.woodworking for advice, but haven't found any
directly applilcable.

Any thoughts?


This topic has 16 replies

EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 7:59 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Square-Drive it is, then! Thanks all!
>
> The reason I asked is that stainless is so different. Soft at first,
> but hard as hell when you push it. Tried to saw the top off a beer keg
> with my saber saw, and wound up breaking every blade. My brother the
> machinist just laughed when I told him.

www.mcfeeleys.com for some of the best quality screws. They have a lot of
deck information.

b

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 12:24 PM

Square-Drive it is, then! Thanks all!

The reason I asked is that stainless is so different. Soft at first,
but hard as hell when you push it. Tried to saw the top off a beer keg
with my saber saw, and wound up breaking every blade. My brother the
machinist just laughed when I told him.


jo4hn wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
> > screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
> > or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
> > stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
> > if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.
> >
> > I have searched rec.woodworking for advice, but haven't found any
> > directly applilcable.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> I have used both and prefer the square drive. I've pretty much switched
> to square for woodworking.
> mahalo,
> jo4hn

Aa

"Andy"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 1:04 PM

> > Square-Drive it is, then! Thanks all!

Another vote for square - far superior in my experience.
Andy

It

"IBM5081"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 2:26 PM

While you're at it, get some good quality squaredrive bits as well.
Even the SD tip will mess up the stainless screw head if it slips or
cams out. I found that the stainless heads fit the bits very snugly and
would leave the tip in the screwhead since I was only using a magnetic
holder for the bit.

Andy wrote:
> > > Square-Drive it is, then! Thanks all!
>
> Another vote for square - far superior in my experience.
> Andy

JP

"Jay Pique"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 4:06 PM


Trevor wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
> > I haven't found any application where I've preferred Phillips over square.
>
> I agree with Barry. I, too, have never found an application where I've
> preferred phillips to square head screws.

Drywall.

JP

Rd

"Robatoy"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 5:17 AM


[email protected] wrote:
> Square-Drive it is, then! Thanks all!
>
> The reason I asked is that stainless is so different. Soft at first,
> but hard as hell when you push it. Tried to saw the top off a beer keg
> with my saber saw, and wound up breaking every blade. My brother the
> machinist just laughed when I told him.
>
You're supposed to use a pump, silly.... I mean.. how thirsty were you?

r

bb

"bremen68"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 7:47 AM

I've used both in my not so illustrious woodworking and will take
square over phillips any time. Though I agree with the earlier drywall
comment. Phillips is my exception for that application.

For my projects I've turned a whole lot less squares round than
phillips to cups... :-)

You do want to make sure and get good screws though... If you go cheap,
you get cheap. Nothing like trying to get a futzed up screw back out
again. And you know it will be the last one you're driving in...

jj

jo4hn

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 12:18 PM

[email protected] wrote:
> I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
> screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
> or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
> stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
> if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.
>
> I have searched rec.woodworking for advice, but haven't found any
> directly applilcable.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
I have used both and prefer the square drive. I've pretty much switched
to square for woodworking.
mahalo,
jo4hn

c

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 12:55 AM

> For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
>or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications,
>

Not trying to be a correction jerk. If your going to call the 'star'
driver a Phillips, then start calling the 'square' driver a
Robertson.

Phillips came up with the tapered X pattern and Robertson (A Canadaian
who got screwed over by the British and refused to take his invention
outside of Canada again) came up with the square pattern and both
these guys have their inventions named after themselves.

And yes for most apllications I prefer a no slip Robertson, except
where the fastener is going to show on a piece of furniture. There I
will use either Phillips or slotted. 'Slotted' also has a name if
someone can remember it.

If anyone cares, the Robertson comes in different sizes and they are
color coded with the most common ones being 2 & 3 :

- 0 yellow
- 1 green
- 2 red
- 3 black

I've seen what appeared to be a 4 in a ratchet bit but I don't know
the color code and I believe there is a 00 size for wee tiny screws.


Pete

Pp

Puckdropper

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 6:10 AM

Jesse R Strawbridge <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> A star drive isn't a Phillips, at least not around here. The Torx head
> is what people mean when they talk about star drive screws. I know
> Robertson invented the square drive, but the name didn't stick like the
> Phillips name did and it is descriptive. A 'plus' head screw for
> Phillips would be more descriptive but is not likely to happen.
>
> Jess.S

I've heard it called that before. At one time, though, I'm sure we've
all heard every variation on "Phillips" that there is. (And a few
unprintable ones about the "flat head." ;-))

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Tt

Trevor

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 2:16 PM

B A R R Y wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
>> screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
>> or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
>> stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
>> if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.
>
> I haven't found any application where I've preferred Phillips over square.

I agree with Barry. I, too, have never found an application where I've
preferred phillips to square head screws.

Given that stainless steel is softer, I think it would give square drive
an even added benefit since square heads don't strip out as easily as
phillips.

Besides, it's hip to be square.

Cc

"CW"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 1:17 AM

Last ones I had were square drive. Started out that way at least. When less
than half way into the would, they converted themselves to round drive. Used
coated deck screws instead.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
> screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
> or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
> stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
> if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.
>
> I have searched rec.woodworking for advice, but haven't found any
> directly applilcable.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

RM

"Ron Magen"

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 2:36 PM

Read all the responses to date {09/20} and had to 'put my oar in' . . .

1} As a boatbuilder, almost all the fasteners I use are Stainless, with the
occasional Marine Bronze. {'softer' then the Stainless}

2} I now use the 'square drive' almost exclusively . . . except where a
particular size is unavailable.

3} My supplies come from McFeeley's . . . their catalog has some nice tips
on how to use different materials.

3a} A 3 inch screw has/needs a lot of torque. {At that length I'd be tempted
to use a #12 or even a #14 - especially for the hard woods used for
decking}.

4} My recommendation, although slowing the progress a bit, could save a lot
of grief . . . a} DRILL pilot holes and b} LUBE the screws. The CHEAPEST and
best is a simple Bees Wax Toilet Ring !! About $2.oo at any 'home center'.
Cut it up {or carefully melt it} and put portions into small closable
containers {I used 35mm film cans}for the tool bags, or a 'travel sized'
empty solid deodorant container {I have one in the bench drawer}.

5} If REALLY 'anal' - glue a HARD STEEL screw to a bit and use it to
'Pre-Thread' the pilot holes. {I sometimes do this with the Bronze screws,
and ALWAYS with 'dead soft' Brass.}

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
> screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
> or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
> stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
> if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.
>
> I have searched rec.woodworking for advice, but haven't found any
> directly applilcable.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

JG

Joe Gorman

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 11:55 AM

bremen68 wrote:
> I've used both in my not so illustrious woodworking and will take
> square over phillips any time. Though I agree with the earlier drywall
> comment. Phillips is my exception for that application.
>
> For my projects I've turned a whole lot less squares round than
> phillips to cups... :-)
>
> You do want to make sure and get good screws though... If you go cheap,
> you get cheap. Nothing like trying to get a futzed up screw back out
> again. And you know it will be the last one you're driving in...
>
No, just the last one you have on hand:-(
Joe

BA

B A R R Y

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

19/09/2006 6:30 PM

[email protected] wrote:
> I am building a deck and have found the least-expensive stainless
> screws. For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
> or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications, but
> stainless is another animal, and I don't have enough experience to know
> if possibly Phillips will work better for these deck screws.

I haven't found any application where I've preferred Phillips over square.

JR

Jesse R Strawbridge

in reply to [email protected] on 19/09/2006 11:04 AM

20/09/2006 2:45 AM

[email protected] wrote:
>>For the size I want (#10x3") it's the same price for Phillips
>>or square-drive. I like square-drive for most applications,
>>
>
>
> Not trying to be a correction jerk. If your going to call the 'star'
> driver a Phillips, then start calling the 'square' driver a
> Robertson.
>
> Phillips came up with the tapered X pattern and Robertson (A Canadaian
> who got screwed over by the British and refused to take his invention
> outside of Canada again) came up with the square pattern and both
> these guys have their inventions named after themselves.
>
> And yes for most apllications I prefer a no slip Robertson, except
> where the fastener is going to show on a piece of furniture. There I
> will use either Phillips or slotted. 'Slotted' also has a name if
> someone can remember it.
>
> If anyone cares, the Robertson comes in different sizes and they are
> color coded with the most common ones being 2 & 3 :
>
> - 0 yellow
> - 1 green
> - 2 red
> - 3 black
>
> I've seen what appeared to be a 4 in a ratchet bit but I don't know
> the color code and I believe there is a 00 size for wee tiny screws.
>
>
> Pete
A star drive isn't a Phillips, at least not around here. The Torx head
is what people mean when they talk about star drive screws. I know
Robertson invented the square drive, but the name didn't stick like the
Phillips name did and it is descriptive. A 'plus' head screw for
Phillips would be more descriptive but is not likely to happen.

Jess.S


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