Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and looked
fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My wife
even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
Rich
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:41:38 GMT, "Michael"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
>he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
I think that when it starts to bother you that he pulls his full-auto
brad nailer and painting antique wood, you've outgrown Norm. As soon
as you're saying "that's just WRONG!" every episode, you know you've
moved on to bigger and better things.
Frank Arthur wrote:
> I probably would not paint an Ebony chair or box. On the other hand one of
> the finest pieces I ever produced was a Walnut and (carved)Teak cabinet had
> Mahogany elements added to both sides. Before I glued up the elements I
> reconsidered the natural Mahogany and covered it with gold leaf before
> gluing. It turned this "really fine" project into a "super" project.
And if you had gold-leafed the entire cabinet, that "super" project
would have become an "ugly" project. That's what Norm did...and I'll
defend his right to do whatever the hell he wants with the stuff he
makes. ;)
The part that got me was his mention of the color variation between
different reclaimed wood pieces - "I'll have to fix that during
finishing". I was hoping for him to break out the transtints and start
listing the steps for color matching with toners. Then he paints it.
Oy.
R
> >> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous
> >> wood. It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in
> >> the Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
> >> looked fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the
> >> wood. My wife even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
I dont watch Norm but ask did the stain bring out the grain more than
if he used say a Tung Oil product. Why would woodworkers be bothered by
stain from someone that carriers a nail gun in his holster.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
> > of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>
> Sure they do. But it is sad to see nice wood voered up by fake products.
> Would you paint an ebony chair or box?
Some Amish would. Natural wood paneling and trim is considered
to be 'proud'.
Intersestingly, I've read that the ancient Greeks painted their
statuary. Evidently one reason for using marble was that paint
adhered well to it.
--
FF
Oleg Lego wrote:
> The Frank Arthur entity posted thusly:
>
> >You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
> >hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
> >choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
> >
> >Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor of
> >the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>
> Yes, and the watcher has the right to apply a twisting motion to the
> channel knob. I don't watch him any more. I think he's a hack.
You have to get out of your chair to change the channel?! You must be
one of them fitness freaks. ;)
R
CW wrote:
> Also seem him use a nail gun.
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
> >
Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker :)
While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
lognum but rather laudanum. See here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
> Steamer.
> Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
> time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
> have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
> lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
> sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
> stuff
> is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
> Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.
>
>
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
>> he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
>>
>>
>
>
Lowell Holmes wrote:
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>snip> A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist
>>a
>>craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
>>craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
>>you're easy to impress.
>>Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
>>builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
>>that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
>>member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bullshit artist I will
>>own up to. I was once a bullshit craftsman, but I've advanced since
>>then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
>>consider myself just a woodworker.
>>The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
>>easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
>>Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
>>Regards,
>>Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)
>
>
>
> Very well stated! Hear, Hear !!
>
>
A round of applause...
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
>>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
>>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
>>looked
>>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My
>>wife
>>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
> I remarked on this the first time around. Unless my TV's color is
> adjusted a whole lot differently than everyone else's that wood was
> butt ugly blue/black to start with. Staining, or painting, was
> actually an improvement, but it was still butt ugly.
>
>
> --
>snip
I agree!
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> writes:
>"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
>> of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>Sure they do. But it is sad to see nice wood voered up by fake products.
>Would you paint an ebony chair or box?
I remember years ago reading a "home improvement" help column in a
newspaper. Someone had written in asking how to paint some teak furniture
they had. The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about
sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.
If it was my column, I would have quickly answered "no, you can't paint
teak. Sell it to someone and use it to by some cheap furniture you CAN
paint."
As the saying goes, it's all a matter of taste. Some people have it.
Some people don't.
I am just finishing, completing, a set of kitchen cabinets made out of
some real nice quartersawn oak, some of it almost looks quilted. The
first thing my wife said after I got the boards run through the planer
was "can we sand out those saw marks?" I had to explain to her that
those weren't saw marks they were the natural grain pattern of the
wood.
The next thing she wanted to do was paint the damn thing white. Well
the "saw" marks are still there and the finish is clear, three coats
of high gloss, and now that the cabinets are complete she is quite
happy with them not being white. But I have had to really work to
chang her perspective and appreciation of wood in this process.
Of course since no good deed ever goes unpunished, she wants
everything built with quartersawn oak. Luckily I have a supply that
is relatively inexpensive, but that's another story. ;-)
Rich wrote:
> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
> It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and looked
> fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My wife
> even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
> Rich
>
>
As others have said - He can do what he wants.
For me - I would have either painted it or used the wood in the
fireplace. I thought it was the ugliest wood I had ever seen!
Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php
B A R R Y <[email protected]> writes:
>Oleg Lego wrote:
>>
>> Yes, and the watcher has the right to apply a twisting motion to the
>> channel knob.
>What is this "channel knob" you speak of?
From what I have hear, is is some sort of a mechanical analog device in
which rotation results in changing electrical characteristics. At least,
that's what they said. In reality, I think it has some belts and pullies
inside that are strapped to a tiny fairy or gremlin, sort of like an old
medieval torture rack. When the knob pulls them the wrong way, they have a
remote control they can use to change the channel for you. I think the
older remotes had very limited range, and wouldn't work over the usual
couch-->TV distances in most homes, so they put it in the hands of the
fairy/gremlin and forced them to do it. I think the method is contrary to
most current labour laws.
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:41:38 GMT, "Michael"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
>>he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
>
> I think that when it starts to bother you that he pulls his full-auto
> brad nailer and painting antique wood, you've outgrown Norm. As soon
> as you're saying "that's just WRONG!" every episode, you know you've
> moved on to bigger and better things.
Balderdash! :-)
Yup, his right to finish it how he wants. Mine to say he ruined it too.
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
> hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
> choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
>
> Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
> of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
>> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous
>> wood. It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in
>> the Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
>> looked fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the
>> wood. My wife even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>>
>> Rich
>>
>
>
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and looked
>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My wife
>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
>Rich
>
I often see things that seem hard to understand- just like Norm's
rational for staining the table.
The first time I saw a PT Cruiser I thought....."why would anyone want
to drive around in that thing".
I hear music that I cannot believe can be enjoyable to listen.
People wear clothes that I would not be caught dead in - shoes too.
If we all looked at a 12x12 sheet of blue paper we would (hopefully)
all agree that its blue, but, are we all seeing exactly the same
thing? Doubtful.
Not understanding how Norm could stain the table is not understanding
how different we all are. For sure, if we ran a focus group we would
find that there would be two distinctive groups (maybe more) - those
who prefer the table with stain and those would prefer it w/o.
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
>>artist.
>
> But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
> appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
> want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
> Norm's schtick.
That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and looked
>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My wife
>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
I remarked on this the first time around. Unless my TV's color is
adjusted a whole lot differently than everyone else's that wood was
butt ugly blue/black to start with. Staining, or painting, was
actually an improvement, but it was still butt ugly.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
The Frank Arthur entity posted thusly:
>You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
>hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
>choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
>
>Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor of
>the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
Yes, and the watcher has the right to apply a twisting motion to the
channel knob. I don't watch him any more. I think he's a hack.
He does have a formal art education.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > CW wrote:
> >> Also seem him use a nail gun.
> >>
> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
> >> >
> >
> > Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
> > is not a highly skilled cabinet maker :)
>
> He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a
show
> last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker or
> carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.
>
> John
>
>
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You saw a rerun. We went through this a few weeks ago.
>
Yeah, you think he'd have done it different this time around!
No wonder my spell checker couldn't deal with it. :)
"Doug Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
> lognum but rather laudanum. See here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
> > Steamer.
> > Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from
a
> > time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
> > have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
> > lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he
doesn't
> > sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
> > stuff
> > is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the
quality.
> > Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.
> >
> >
> > "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>
> >> That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
> >> he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Why not? Works. I use one myself.
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
> > Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from
a
> > time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
> > have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
> > lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he
doesn't
> > sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
stuff
> > is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the
quality.
> > Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.
>
> I hear what you're saying, but a biscuit joiner? Please.
>
>
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
> see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the biscuit
> joiner?
All the time.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly Steamer.
> Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
> time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
> have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
> lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
> sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that stuff
> is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
> Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.
I hear what you're saying, but a biscuit joiner? Please.
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thomas Adams wrote:
> > "Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>D Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about
> >>
> >>>sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.
> >>
> >>Must've been under a lot of pressure.
> >>
> >>er
> >>--
> >>email not valid
> >
> > While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago
I
> > was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
> > painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully.
To
> > give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the
five
> > car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through
checking
> > out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the
painter
> > over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
> > work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels
and
> > to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
> > taste and some don't.
>
> Sure, drown my little pun with your horrible tale! I hope the paint was
> expensive, at least. Very expensive.
>
> er
> --
> email not valid
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
> of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
Sure they do. But it is sad to see nice wood voered up by fake products.
Would you paint an ebony chair or box?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> CW wrote:
>> Also seem him use a nail gun.
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
>> >
>
> Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
> is not a highly skilled cabinet maker :)
He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a show
last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker or
carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.
John
I probably would not paint an Ebony chair or box. On the other hand one of
the finest pieces I ever produced was a Walnut and (carved)Teak cabinet had
Mahogany elements added to both sides. Before I glued up the elements I
reconsidered the natural Mahogany and covered it with gold leaf before
gluing. It turned this "really fine" project into a "super" project.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
>> of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>
> Sure they do. But it is sad to see nice wood voered up by fake products.
> Would you paint an ebony chair or box?
>
>
>
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:QSz2g.4004$ww6.3740@trnddc05...
>>
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
>>>snip.
>snip> Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
> artist.
>
> As an amateur woodworker, I like the easy project I can get done in
> a weekend and so I like to watch Norm. But that's not the attitude of
> people who work at a very high level.
>
> Norm has the show 1) because his kind of work appeals to a fairly large
> audience that can aspire to his skill level and 2) he is a television
> personality.
>
> If you create a show displaying the a master craftsman, even an
> interesting
> personality, I doubt even PBS would pick it up because of a lack of
> viewership.
>
I was privileged to attend the conference on making 18th century furniture
at Williamsburg. The Headly brothers are true craftsmen. The furniture
makers at Homestead Heritage are true craftsmen. There are others.
Norm is limited by the premise of his show. Occasionally a snippet of skill
shows through that indicates there is a side of him that is not displayed. I
think a lot of the protesters in this newsgroup that complain about Norm
miss these subtle things that show occasionally.
It doesn't really matter, but it's just my 2 cents worth.
OBTW, I consider myself to be an old duffer, but that doesn't mean I'm not a
woodworker. :-)
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
>snip.
>
> Norm is an old timer carpenter. No matter how hard he tries, he will
> never make the transition into a real wood \worker. He probably feels
> guilty working in a shop full of "donated" tools. He compensates by
> obliterating the natural beauty of most of his projects.
>
And pray tell, what is a real wood\worker?
The dictionary gives the following.
woodworker
n : makes things out of wood [syn: woodsman, woodman]
I believe Norm fits that description.
I agree as well, the stock was hideous IMO.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:3kA2g.746$yI1.549@trnddc04...
>>
>> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous
> wood.
>> >>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
>> >>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
>> >>looked
>> >>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My
>> >>wife
>> >>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>> >
>> > I remarked on this the first time around. Unless my TV's color is
>> > adjusted a whole lot differently than everyone else's that wood was
>> > butt ugly blue/black to start with. Staining, or painting, was
>> > actually an improvement, but it was still butt ugly.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >snip
>>
>> I agree!
>>
>>
>
> So do I. As I posted earlier, I got the impression that Norm agreed also.
>
>
:)
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:B2z2g.11236$%[email protected]...
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You saw a rerun. We went through this a few weeks ago.
> >
>
> Yeah, you think he'd have done it different this time around!
>
>
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
> It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
> looked fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the
> wood. My wife even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
>
I know,he does that. And my wife also has had similar responses to Norm
painting or covering up some beautiful piece of wood.
Norm is an old timer carpenter. No matter how hard he tries, he will never
make the transition into a real wood \worker. He probably feels guilty
working in a shop full of "donated" tools. He compensates by obliterating
the natural beauty of most of his projects.
Yes. And I have the right to disagree. I'm pretty sure Rich wasn't
suggesting jail time for Norm. At least he didn't paint it.
todd
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
> hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
> choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
>
> Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor
> of the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
>> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous
>> wood. It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in
>> the Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
>> looked fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the
>> wood. My wife even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>>
>> Rich
>>
>
>
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
>>>>artist.
>>>
>>> But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
>>> appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
>>> want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
>>> Norm's schtick.
>>
>> That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
>> he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
>>
>>
>
> WTF is the problem with a biscuit joiner? Really good for aligning glue
> ups, attaching face frames, building carcases etc. I use nail guns for
> decks, sheds etc. I don't use them for cabinet work except for a pin
> nailer that is great for attaching molding etc. Power tools can save time
> and in many cases be more accurate. Try felling a tree, limbing it,
> sawing it into lumber, sizing the lumber, planing the lumber, hand
> forging or forming any needed hardware and constructing a piece of
> furniture or trimming out a staircase, wainscoating etc. using only
> handtools.
I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the biscuit
joiner?
I like Norm and I learn a lot watching him. Be he does things that makes
you wonder . . .
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:QSz2g.4004$ww6.3740@trnddc05...
>
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
>>snip.
>>
>> Norm is an old timer carpenter. No matter how hard he tries, he will never make the transition into a real wood \worker. He
>> probably feels guilty working in a shop full of "donated" tools. He compensates by obliterating the natural beauty of most of his
>> projects.
>>
> And pray tell, what is a real wood\worker?
>
> The dictionary gives the following.
>
> woodworker
>
> n : makes things out of wood [syn: woodsman, woodman]
>
>
>
> I believe Norm fits that description.
Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
artist.
As an amateur woodworker, I like the easy project I can get done in
a weekend and so I like to watch Norm. But that's not the attitude of
people who work at a very high level.
Norm has the show 1) because his kind of work appeals to a fairly large
audience that can aspire to his skill level and 2) he is a television personality.
If you create a show displaying the a master craftsman, even an interesting
personality, I doubt even PBS would pick it up because of a lack of viewership.
[email protected] wrote in news:1146101988.401948.186020
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>
> CW wrote:
>> Also seem him use a nail gun.
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
>> >
>
> Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
> is not a highly skilled cabinet maker :)
>
>
C'mon he is, I'm not.
Hank
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> CW wrote:
>>> Also seem him use a nail gun.
>>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>> > Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
>>> >
>>
>> Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
>> is not a highly skilled cabinet maker :)
>
> He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a
> show last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker
> or carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.
>
> John
>
>
Marks is one of/or the best cabinetmakers I've seen. I don't necessarily
like his style, but his craftsmanship is something else. I bet Norm would
love David's 'Aircraft Carrier' jointer or David's multi-router (I would).
Hank
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
>>>artist.
>>
>> But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
>> appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
>> want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
>> Norm's schtick.
>
> That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
> he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
>
>
WTF is the problem with a biscuit joiner? Really good for aligning glue
ups, attaching face frames, building carcases etc. I use nail guns for
decks, sheds etc. I don't use them for cabinet work except for a pin
nailer that is great for attaching molding etc. Power tools can save time
and in many cases be more accurate. Try felling a tree, limbing it,
sawing it into lumber, sizing the lumber, planing the lumber, hand
forging or forming any needed hardware and constructing a piece of
furniture or trimming out a staircase, wainscoating etc. using only
handtools. Would you be an artist, craftsman or carpenter?
Did you ever restore furniture? It's interesting to see the type of
hardware that was used to trim out and secure furniture from the
nineteenth century (a lot of nails and screws. Does a nail care if it is
hammered or driven? Does a screw care if it is turned by a hand or
powered driver?).
A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist a
craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
you're easy to impress.
Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bullshit artist I will
own up to. I was once a bullshit craftsman, but I've advanced since
then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
consider myself just a woodworker.
The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
Regards,
Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)
"Doug Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
> lognum but rather laudanum. See here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
Wow! Thanks for that. Most of us didn't know that. Is that anything like a
tincture of opium?
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
> I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
> see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the
> biscuit joiner?
>
> I like Norm and I learn a lot watching him. Be he does things that
> makes you wonder . . .
>
How many highly skilled cabinet makers do you know? I know several. They
use many of the tools that Norm uses. I'm not sure what 'highly skilled
means' or what an artist truly is. I am very wary of anybody that refers to
themselves as "Artists".
I am lowly skilled, but I recognize when a biscuit joiner or pin nailer is
the best way to go.
Hank
Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.
"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
> he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.
>
>
I was wondering wher he got a TV with a channel knob.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oleg Lego wrote:
> > The Frank Arthur entity posted thusly:
> >
> > >You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
> > >hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
> > >choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
> > >
> > >Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or
constructor of
> > >the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
> >
> > Yes, and the watcher has the right to apply a twisting motion to the
> > channel knob. I don't watch him any more. I think he's a hack.
>
> You have to get out of your chair to change the channel?! You must be
> one of them fitness freaks. ;)
>
> R
>
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
>artist.
But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
Norm's schtick.
The only thing I hate about NYW is watching Norm butcher antique wood
that cannot be replaced. If he's just going to paint it or whatever,
why not use wood that's easy to come by and give the antique,
high-quality wood to someone who is going to make good use of it?
On 26 Apr 2006 13:36:04 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
And a nail gun. Same model (although somewhat older) as Norm.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> D Smith wrote:
>
> The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about
> > sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.
>
> Must've been under a lot of pressure.
>
> er
> --
> email not valid
While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago I
was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully. To
give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the five
car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through checking
out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the painter
over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels and
to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
taste and some don't.
--
Tom Adams
My point exactly!
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
>>artist.
>
> But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
> appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
> want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
> Norm's schtick.
>
> The only thing I hate about NYW is watching Norm butcher antique wood
> that cannot be replaced. If he's just going to paint it or whatever,
> why not use wood that's easy to come by and give the antique,
> high-quality wood to someone who is going to make good use of it?
Norm who?
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
> It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
looked
> fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My
wife
> even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
> Rich
>
>
You obtain wood and work it into a table, chair or cabinet and put many
hours of planning and labor into it. Who decides what if any finish you
choose? Wax, stain, bare wood, Poly, shellac, laquer or paint?
Please think about it. Isn't the owner, builder, designer or constructor of
the project have the right to choose how they desire to finish it?
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
> It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
> looked fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the
> wood. My wife even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
> Rich
>
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3kA2g.746$yI1.549@trnddc04...
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous
wood.
> >>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> >>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
> >>looked
> >>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My
> >>wife
> >>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
> >
> > I remarked on this the first time around. Unless my TV's color is
> > adjusted a whole lot differently than everyone else's that wood was
> > butt ugly blue/black to start with. Staining, or painting, was
> > actually an improvement, but it was still butt ugly.
> >
> >
> > --
> >snip
>
> I agree!
>
>
So do I. As I posted earlier, I got the impression that Norm agreed also.
Seems to me that that wood was not to his liking in any case. If he had just
been given this project, he probably would have chosen something different.
Not his choice, I'd bet.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Frank Arthur wrote:
> > I probably would not paint an Ebony chair or box. On the other hand one
of
> > the finest pieces I ever produced was a Walnut and (carved)Teak cabinet
had
> > Mahogany elements added to both sides. Before I glued up the elements I
> > reconsidered the natural Mahogany and covered it with gold leaf before
> > gluing. It turned this "really fine" project into a "super" project.
>
> And if you had gold-leafed the entire cabinet, that "super" project
> would have become an "ugly" project. That's what Norm did...and I'll
> defend his right to do whatever the hell he wants with the stuff he
> makes. ;)
>
> The part that got me was his mention of the color variation between
> different reclaimed wood pieces - "I'll have to fix that during
> finishing". I was hoping for him to break out the transtints and start
> listing the steps for color matching with toners. Then he paints it.
> Oy.
>
> R
>
<<Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.>>
And while you're at it, throw away that remote control. Getting up out of
the Barcalounger and turning the channel changing knob on the old 17" black
& white Muntz TV was the way they did it in the good ole days and therefore
is the only acceptible way to do it now.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>snip> A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist
>a
> craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
> craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
> you're easy to impress.
> Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
> builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
> that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
> member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bullshit artist I will
> own up to. I was once a bullshit craftsman, but I've advanced since
> then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
> consider myself just a woodworker.
> The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
> easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
> Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
> Regards,
> Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)
Very well stated! Hear, Hear !!
Thomas Adams wrote:
> "Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>D Smith wrote:
>>
>>The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about
>>
>>>sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.
>>
>>Must've been under a lot of pressure.
>>
>>er
>>--
>>email not valid
>
> While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago I
> was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
> painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully. To
> give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the five
> car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through checking
> out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the painter
> over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
> work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels and
> to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
> taste and some don't.
Sure, drown my little pun with your horrible tale! I hope the paint was
expensive, at least. Very expensive.
er
--
email not valid
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 01:33:54 +0100, LRod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:06:02 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
>>It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
>>Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and looked
>>fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My wife
>>even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
>I remarked on this the first time around. Unless my TV's color is
>adjusted a whole lot differently than everyone else's that wood was
>butt ugly blue/black to start with. Staining, or painting, was
>actually an improvement, but it was still butt ugly.
Looked that way to me too.
Also seem him use a nail gun.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits
>
You saw a rerun. We went through this a few weeks ago.
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:K0w2g.76$Te.63@trndny04...
> Just saw Norm make a table from reclaimed white oak. Really gorgeous wood.
> It had been part of a dam that had been submerged for many years in the
> Rappahannock River in Virginia. The wood was a dark silvery color and
looked
> fantastic. Norm made a real nice table of it, then STAINED the wood. My
wife
> even screamed. Does he smoke crack?
>
> Rich
>
>
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes. And I have the right to disagree. I'm pretty sure Rich wasn't
> suggesting jail time for Norm. At least he didn't paint it.
>
Maybe some kinda forced intervention??
Or at least wood finish counseling.