Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck of
the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
Tim w
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > ...the _best_ tool for
> > > > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > > > screwdriver bit in an old brace ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it?
> Brace
> > > and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent
> motor
> > > with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
> > >
> > Right. Why not use a chain saw, or dynamite? ;-)
> > I want to extract the old screws without breaking them or messing the
> heads.
> >
>
> You seem to believe it's not possible to do so with a drill motor. Ok.
>
In fact you might be right. But I wanted to test out the brace technique.
Tim w
> .. a screwdriver bit in an old brace ... but a quick search reveals no source. Were these items once manufactured?
Yes -- perhaps an old tool dealer might have some.
> Are they still available?
I don't know.
> ... with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck of the brace?
If worse comes to worse, You could take an old auger bit, cut off the
drill section, and fashion the remaining shank into a screwdriver of
the size and shape you need.
Joel Jacobson
Tim W wrote:
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> Tim w
You want the screwdriver bits that have a tapered square shank,
designed to be used directly in a bit brace. I've seen them in slotted
and Phillips, but never Posidrive. Stanley, Irwin, Millers Falls are
typical manufacturers.
That said, though, I couldn't find them in any recent catalogs. They
may have been discontinued. Perhaps eBay or one of the antique tool
sellers will be your best source.
I'd stay away from the adapters that take the 1/4" hex bits. They are
OK for smaller screws, but the hex bits just aren't up to the larger
ones. Which are the ones you want the bit brace for.
John Martin
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> > Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> > these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> > uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck
> of
> > the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
> >
> > Tim w
> >
> >
>
> Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it? Brace
> and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent motor
> with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent
brace is still better for tricky applications. it's the exact
one-to-one relationship of the turns of the brace to the turns of the
screw thing.
get a good quality holder for 1/4" hex screwdriver tips. the tips are
available in almost any size/type you'll ever find. the brace will grab
the holder just fine.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
>
> Point well taken, and in fact it was one of the factors that I considered at
> the very opening of this thread. Having extracted untold numbers of screws
> with my cordless or my corded drill motor though, I have to wonder just how
> much value that really is. (Point of diminishing returns). I've used brace
> and bit before as well, so that makes me equally reluctant to acknowledge
> what that says about *my* age too, but there are ups and downs to
> everything. A brace and bit is quite unstable before it can really dig in,
> which of course it can't do with a driver bit in it. With all of that body
> weight leaning into it at a further distance from the object, it becomes
> more unstable than a drill motor. Add to that that one has to apply a
> rotation to it which does nothing to help add stability - in fact as most
> who have used a brace and bit know - it tends to de-stabilize the tool.
> Sure, with a small amount of practice it's easily enough mastered, as
> evidenced by the existence of the tool over time, but that does not negate
> the natural tendency for instability. The amount of leverage provided by a
> 3" or 4" offset is not all that significant as well - particularly in the
> case of nasty stubborn screws. I see lots of potential for the very screw
> damage that the OP was fearful of.
>
> I wasn't suggesting that the brace and bit would not work, or that perhaps
> it would even be a much cooler way of doing things. Heck - it could be a
> lot like using a hand plane instead of a planer. There's much to be said
> for some of the cool old tools. I originally replied just to suggest a
> common, every day solution to the problem. It works and it really does not
> suffer the pitfalls that have been posted so far. Of course - it is not an
> elegant, neander, cool way of doing things - I gotta give you that. And...
> I really do believe there is a lot of value in elegant, neander and cool.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
I've been trying to follow your logic on this, Mike, and I've got to
admit I'm baffled.
For small screws - say #6 through #10 - and particularly in softwoods,
your electric drill is fine. So is a plain screwdriver, a Yankee-type
ratchet screwdriver, or even a brace and bit. With the larger screws,
though - #14, #16, even #24 - a brace and screwdriver bit is the only
way to go.
I just took a look at some #24 flat head wood screws. The head is 3/4"
wide, and a 1/2" Stanley screwdriver bit fits it pretty well. The bit
is actually about 5/8" wide but beveled to 1/2" at the tip. If I had a
lot of #24 screws to drive (or remove) I'd probably grind it back
somewhat to make it fit even better. I've never seen a bit for a drill
motor that will fit a screw that size - have you? Or even one for a
#14 slot, or for a #3 Phillips.
The bit brace is far more stable than an electric drill. It is longer,
and the pad is designed to be braced by not just your hand, but also by
your chest, thigh or even forehead if necessary. An electric drill is
difficult to brace in that way. And, that extra support from your
chest, thigh or forehead also translates into extra pressure holding
the bit in the screw slot - which keeps it from camming out.
An offset of 3" or 4"? Those 6" and 8" sweep braces are pretty rare,
although they are good for driving smaller screws. Most of the braces
you'll find are larger. I've got a half dozen or so, with sweeps
ranging from 8" to 14". The 14" brace is capable of driving a #24
screw into hardwood without any great effort. I'm guessing your drill
motor would have a tough time with that, assuming that you could get a
bit to fit it.
John Martin
Chris Friesen wrote:
> John Martin wrote:
>
> > The 14" brace is capable of driving a #24
> > screw into hardwood without any great effort. I'm guessing your drill
> > motor would have a tough time with that, assuming that you could get a
> > bit to fit it.
>
> Haven't tried #24 into hardwood, but I've used a basic corded drill with
> a socket adapter to put large lag bolts into 4x4 lumber without predrilling.
>
> I bet a low-rpm 1/2" power drill would do even better. And if you
> wanted to really go nuts, try one of these:
>
> http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product3_27_40027_-1_284311_281138_189333_362#
>
> Chris
What would you chuck into that drill to drive the screws? Remember,
he's talking about wood screws, not lags.
You could also use an impact wrench. Same question, though.
John Martin
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> #24 I'd have to check into. Off the top of my head I do not know what that
> size is. I have though used my drill motor well beyond #10, and in other
> than pine. Likewise, not just wood screws, but machine screws.
>
> #14 slot - can't speak to that one. #3 Phillips - I have several tips right
> in my drawer. They are quite common.
>
>
> Well, it would be interesting to see. I'm not about to say that a drill
> motor can drive anything that a brace can - hell, like I said, I don't even
> know off the top of my head what a #24 screw looks like. I have to say that
> I'd be surprised if it proved that the drill motor couldn't. But then
> again, I've been surprised before.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
You probably won't find any #24 screws around, nor even any #18s or
#16s. They are for really heavy jobs, like mounting bench vises.
Don't understand the part about machine screws, though. Are you using
them in tapped holes in metal? That shouldn't require much torque. Or
are you for some reason using them in wood?
You are right about the #3 Phillips bits - they do make them. I'm sure
you know the importance of fitting a screwdriver to a slotted screw,
and I've never seen a 1/4" hex bit large enough for, say, a #14 screw.
I was wrong about the #3 Phillips, though.
It sounds like the drill motor is the perfect tool for you. Horses for
courses.
John Martin
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > You probably won't find any #24 screws around, nor even any #18s or
> > #16s. They are for really heavy jobs, like mounting bench vises.
> > Don't understand the part about machine screws, though. Are you using
> > them in tapped holes in metal? That shouldn't require much torque. Or
> > are you for some reason using them in wood?
>
> No - sheet metal screws. I'm sorry, I used the wrong word and didn't catch
> it when I re-read before posting.
>
> >
> > You are right about the #3 Phillips bits - they do make them. I'm sure
> > you know the importance of fitting a screwdriver to a slotted screw,
> > and I've never seen a 1/4" hex bit large enough for, say, a #14 screw.
> > I was wrong about the #3 Phillips, though.
>
> Yes indeed - I do appreciate the importance of fitting the right sized
> driver to the head. So tell me - and again, this is not in the spirit of
> argument, it's in the spirit of genuine question - will the bit used for a
> #14 or perhaps even a #16 (the bit you would use in a brace) not chuck into
> a 3/8 "or 1/2" drill motor chuck?
>
> >
> > It sounds like the drill motor is the perfect tool for you. Horses for
> > courses.
> >
>
> Probably better said that it has served me well in what I have done. Don't
> want you to take from this that I believe it's the ultimate answer. It may
> always be a good tool for what I do and I may never encounter a situation
> where another tool would truly be a better alternative, but all the same it
> is interesting to understand the real differences and benefits of another
> approach.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
Mike, you've just about convinced me. Especially as I get older, I
realize that I shouldn't be taxing myself with hand tools when I can
use power ones.
Chris suggested I look at a Milwaukee Super Hole Shooter. I think he
might have been kidding somewhat, as it seems a tad large for driving
wood screws, and I don't know where I would find screwdriver bits with
#3 Morse taper shanks. Perhaps he had in mind a taper adapter with a
drill chuck on it, but that gets a bit heavy and awkward.
What sort of drill motor and bits should I be considering?
John Martin
John Martin wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > #24 I'd have to check into. Off the top of my head I do not know what that
> > size is. I have though used my drill motor well beyond #10, and in other
> > than pine. Likewise, not just wood screws, but machine screws.
> >
>
> > #14 slot - can't speak to that one. #3 Phillips - I have several tips right
> > in my drawer. They are quite common.
> >
> >
> > Well, it would be interesting to see. I'm not about to say that a drill
> > motor can drive anything that a brace can - hell, like I said, I don't even
> > know off the top of my head what a #24 screw looks like. I have to say that
> > I'd be surprised if it proved that the drill motor couldn't. But then
> > again, I've been surprised before.
> >
> > --
> >
heck, I even have a #4 phillips insert tip. I've even used it once...
> > -Mike-
> > [email protected]
>
> You probably won't find any #24 screws around, nor even any #18s or
> #16s. They are for really heavy jobs, like mounting bench vises.
> Don't understand the part about machine screws, though. Are you using
> them in tapped holes in metal? That shouldn't require much torque. Or
> are you for some reason using them in wood?
>
> You are right about the #3 Phillips bits - they do make them. I'm sure
> you know the importance of fitting a screwdriver to a slotted screw,
> and I've never seen a 1/4" hex bit large enough for, say, a #14 screw.
> I was wrong about the #3 Phillips, though.
>
> It sounds like the drill motor is the perfect tool for you. Horses for
> courses.
>
> John Martin
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > Mike, you've just about convinced me. Especially as I get older, I
> > realize that I shouldn't be taxing myself with hand tools when I can
> > use power ones.
>
> Rugh-Roh, that wasn't my intent. I was enjoying the dialog and
> understanding why people use what they use, compared to why I use what I
> use. Something of an academic exercise to make usenet both useful to me and
> enjoyable.
>
>
> > What sort of drill motor and bits should I be considering?
> >
>
> I just have a 3/8 DeWalt variable speed drill motor. I think mine is a 6A
> motor. I retrofitted a 1/2" chuck to it a long time ago just to handle a
> couple of bigger things that I put in it. It has plenty of power to handle
> the things I use it for so putting the 1/2" chuck on never concerned me.
> Like you, I don't want to be hauling out the wheel barrel just to move my
> drill around, so big enough to do what I need, is big enough for me. I
> chuck up pretty much what ever I need to do the job. I've got things like
> ground down 3/8" socket wrench extensions that I can chuck into it for
> running nuts and bolts as might be required. Beats grabbing an impact gun
> sometimes and is much faster than an air ratchet. Of course I have #2 and
> #3 Phillips tips. What I like about it over my cordless gun is that for
> jobs that might be similar to what the OP posted that got this thread going,
> it has the power to lay into it and very slowly try to work a screw. You
> don't have to hit the trigger and develop too much speed right off the bat,
> only to eat up a screw head.
>
> But I will say this John - I was a long time getting into grabbing a hand
> plane, tuning it up and putting it seriously to a piece of work. I don't
> get into it like some of the guys here, but once I got my plane tuned up and
> sharp, I was so impressed with every aspect of using it that I haven't
> grabbed my power planer since. It works extremely well, is easier to grab
> and "setup" than my power planer (don't have to move crap away from the
> outlet to plug it in), and most important - it's so much more fun to use. I
> still get a thrill out of watching a curl grow out of it, and love the sound
> of it moving across a piece of wood. Simple minds, simple pleasures. All
> that to say that so many of the old tools are indeed much cooler to use. I
> wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from going that route - even if being
> cooler was the only reason, and sometimes there's other reasons to stick
> with them.
>
> As for drill motors, I believe in small tools with lots of power. Big tools
> are hard to maneuver, sometimes hard to use accurately. I like a 3/8" motor
> with a rating like mine (6A) or thereabouts, and a good trigger. I like to
> be able to creep the motor up from a dead stop to just barely trying to
> turn. And of course - it just wouldn't be right unless it really whizzed
> too. For me, the DeWalt has served that well. But... don't you go putting
> that brace and bit up in the attic.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
I took a look at those drills, Mike, and noticed that they don't have
side handles. How do you handle the torque that they produce? That
short pistol grip handle wouldn't seem to give you much leverage.
John Martin
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I took a look at those drills, Mike, and noticed that they don't have
> > side handles. How do you handle the torque that they produce? That
> > short pistol grip handle wouldn't seem to give you much leverage.
> >
>
> I just hold it firmly John. Sometimes I'll hold it sideways so the grip is
> off to a side instead of straight down and I can get a bit more feel of
> control that way. I've never had the need for a side handle. I have
> grabbed right around the body of the motor before, again - to get the feel
> of more control. Don't know if it actually provided much more control, or
> was just a feel thing. I guess I just don't find a drill motor to be very
> unsteady feeling in my hand, so as to need something like the side handle.
>
> I usually don't just squeeze the trigger to full speed either, and that
> helps with the torque thing. Running a speed bore into a floor joist is one
> thing - I'll just hog right into that, but for most other things I generally
> attack the work with less torque. I'm one of those guys that you'll never
> see running a drill motor up to high speed with a metal cutting bit in it,
> or with a tech adapter chucked in, so again - the torque thing isn't as big
> a problem as you might think.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
Thanks, Mike. Knowing your concern about being able to apply enough
torque with a bit brace, I wondered how a drill motor without a great
big side handle would do.
John Martin
John Martin wrote:
> The 14" brace is capable of driving a #24
> screw into hardwood without any great effort. I'm guessing your drill
> motor would have a tough time with that, assuming that you could get a
> bit to fit it.
Haven't tried #24 into hardwood, but I've used a basic corded drill with
a socket adapter to put large lag bolts into 4x4 lumber without predrilling.
I bet a low-rpm 1/2" power drill would do even better. And if you
wanted to really go nuts, try one of these:
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product3_27_40027_-1_284311_281138_189333_362#
Chris
Mike Marlow wrote:
>> The bit brace is far more stable than an electric drill. It is
>> longer, and the pad is designed to be braced by not just your hand,
>> but also by your chest, thigh or even forehead if necessary. An
>> electric drill is difficult to brace in that way. And, that extra
>> support from your chest, thigh or forehead also translates into
>> extra pressure holding the bit in the screw slot - which keeps it
>> from camming out.
>
> Several people have stated this so I have to believe there is truth
> to it. I did wonder though, how many of those who spoke did so not
> out of experience, but out of having heard it said.
In my case, it was out of experience. I owned a sizeable sailboat for a
number of years and the brace was my buddy :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck
of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> Tim w
>
>
Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it? Brace
and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent motor
with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l3yUf.17$ah3.0@trnddc06...
> Tim W wrote:
>> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool
>> for removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is
>> a screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill
>> thing). Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no
>> source. Were these items once manufactured? Are they still available?
>> Posi also? in the uk? with the old square section tapered shank for
>> locking into the chuck of the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to
>> take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> You *don't* want a cranked hand drill for that, you want a brace.
> Screwdriver bits for same can be found at most any marine supplier such
> as Jamestown Distributors. Wouldn't surprise me if Vermont American
> and/or Irwin still makes them, should find things made by them at most
> any hardware store which should be able to order. No real need though,
> you can chuck most any shape in a brace.
>
This is also pretty good.
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=141-581
Seems I saw an adapter for hex to brace somewhere, but can't turn it.
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l3yUf.17$ah3.0@trnddc06...
> You *don't* want a cranked hand drill for that, you want a brace.
> Screwdriver bits for same can be found at most any marine supplier such
> as Jamestown Distributors. Wouldn't surprise me if Vermont American
> and/or Irwin still makes them, should find things made by them at most
> any hardware store which should be able to order. No real need though,
> you can chuck most any shape in a brace.
>
Sorry to piggyback, but it appears that this will do at a reasonable price.
http://www.garrettwade.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=106391&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=0&iSubCat=0&iProductID=106391
Garrett Wade reasonable? I suppose.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> everything. A brace and bit is quite unstable before it can really dig
in,
> which of course it can't do with a driver bit in it. With all of that
body
> weight leaning into it at a further distance from the object, it becomes
> more unstable than a drill motor.
Don't know that I'd agree with all of that. Certainly, if the brace and but
was not centred, then it has a good chance of being unstable. However the
biggest problem I've noticed with a drill and bit is the fact that unless
you're extremely careful, it gets up to speed really fast, throwing the bit
off what you're working on. The brace and bit on the other hand, is much
more controllable at low speed, even with power behind it.
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l3yUf.17$ah3.0@trnddc06...
> Tim W wrote:
> > a screwdriver bit in an old brace ...
>
> You *don't* want a cranked hand drill for that, you want a brace.
> Screwdriver bits for same can be found at most any marine supplier such
> as Jamestown Distributors. Wouldn't surprise me if Vermont American
> and/or Irwin still makes them, should find things made by them at most
> any hardware store which should be able to order. No real need though,
> you can chuck most any shape in a brace.
Ah!... I didn't realise that. thanks
Tim W
"Max Mahanke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With all due repect, one point in in favor of the brace & bit solution is
> the brace is designed with a large flat knob on the end of the handle that
> you can place against your chest as you rotate the bit, thus bringing your
> full body weight to bear on the screw head if necessary. (I hate to admit
> I'm old enough to have used one of these in my younger days). That's hard
> to do with a 'motor' drill as they are designed to be pushed by your hand
> which brings your wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints into play as you try
to
> apply pressure. As Isac Newton said, it all comes down to physics .....
> (sorry, I made that up).
>
Point well taken, and in fact it was one of the factors that I considered at
the very opening of this thread. Having extracted untold numbers of screws
with my cordless or my corded drill motor though, I have to wonder just how
much value that really is. (Point of diminishing returns). I've used brace
and bit before as well, so that makes me equally reluctant to acknowledge
what that says about *my* age too, but there are ups and downs to
everything. A brace and bit is quite unstable before it can really dig in,
which of course it can't do with a driver bit in it. With all of that body
weight leaning into it at a further distance from the object, it becomes
more unstable than a drill motor. Add to that that one has to apply a
rotation to it which does nothing to help add stability - in fact as most
who have used a brace and bit know - it tends to de-stabilize the tool.
Sure, with a small amount of practice it's easily enough mastered, as
evidenced by the existence of the tool over time, but that does not negate
the natural tendency for instability. The amount of leverage provided by a
3" or 4" offset is not all that significant as well - particularly in the
case of nasty stubborn screws. I see lots of potential for the very screw
damage that the OP was fearful of.
I wasn't suggesting that the brace and bit would not work, or that perhaps
it would even be a much cooler way of doing things. Heck - it could be a
lot like using a hand plane instead of a planer. There's much to be said
for some of the cool old tools. I originally replied just to suggest a
common, every day solution to the problem. It works and it really does not
suffer the pitfalls that have been posted so far. Of course - it is not an
elegant, neander, cool way of doing things - I gotta give you that. And...
I really do believe there is a lot of value in elegant, neander and cool.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > ...the _best_ tool for
> > > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > > screwdriver bit in an old brace ...
> > >
> >
> > Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it?
Brace
> > and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent
motor
> > with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
> >
> Right. Why not use a chain saw, or dynamite? ;-)
> I want to extract the old screws without breaking them or messing the
heads.
>
You seem to believe it's not possible to do so with a drill motor. Ok.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> Tim w
>
>
Hello, here is your catagory for eBay, in England:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/
Collectables> Tools & Hardware> Tools> Carpentry/ Woodworking
There, you can see your catagory links on your left, and you can select "UK
only" in a drop down.
Braces are usually two jawed (98% of them), and the bits have a tapered
square head. Just search through all the pages until you find screwdriver bits
and a brace you want, the best ever made are Yankee Bell system by North
Bros., and later the same by Stanley, as long as it is a Yankee. The model
Nos. are 2101 and the better 2100, 10" swing (5" depth) size is most common.
As I see it, you have braces available there, and drill bits.
The two jawed chuck will also accept shanks that do not have the tapered
square head, as long as it is set in deep enough, so you could cut the handles
off a couple of old screwdrivers, not skinny ones. For drill bits you will need
a bit sharpening file if you buy them used. Only that file is properly designed
for the job, made by Nicholson and available at Lee Valley, or needle files
and small sharpening stones.
Here is an adapter you can get from the US,
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&cat=1,180&p=42337
It will take 1/4" hex bits that are common, adapted to the brace chuck.
http://axminster.co.uk has a brace and the best bits that are new, but those
prices are beyond, I wouldn't do it.
If you can get someting like Craftsman "screw outs", they could probably
work in a brace as well:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00952154000
I don't know if Craftsman is sold over there, check axminster for them.
Good luck,
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
The point is to feel what you are doing. Brace is it.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it? Brace
> and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent motor
> with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>
Tim W (in [email protected]) said:
| Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_
| tool for removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing
| operation is a screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked
| hand drill thing). Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search
| reveals no source. Were these items once manufactured? Are they
| still available? Posi also? in the uk? with the old square section
| tapered shank for locking into the chuck of the brace? Or can the
| brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
Tim...
I chucked up a magnetic hex bit holder in an old brace and use
inexpensive hex-shanked screwdriver bits. I use mine almost
exclusively for square drive wood screws; but would expect that this
lash-up would work well for any type of screw.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Mike Marlow wrote:
> I see lots of potential for the very screw damage that the
> OP was fearful of.
As I'm sure you know, the best way to minimize that potential with
either a brace or motored drill is to use a bit that fits the screw
perfectly. Especially but not exclusively slotted screws.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Tim W" wrote:
>Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
>removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
>screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
>Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source.
<snip>
Jamestown Distributors.
If you are going to screw around with a wood boat, J/D will become a
MAJOR supplier.
Trust me.
Lew
> Excellent, many thanks. I didn't make it clear I already have the brace. I
> hadn't thought of cutting the tip off a screwdriver. That is what I will do,
> except I will use a cheapy new one instead of a worn out old one.
>
> Tim W
>
>
Yes, make sure you have two inches that will go into the chuck, and then the
length you need that comes out from the chuck. A full 5" total length is good.
And when mounted, that chuck must be as tight as possible without being
impossible to loosen.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > ...the _best_ tool for
> > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > screwdriver bit in an old brace ...
> >
>
> Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it? Brace
> and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent motor
> with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
>
Right. Why not use a chain saw, or dynamite? ;-)
I want to extract the old screws without breaking them or messing the heads.
Tim W
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool
>> for removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation
>> is a screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill
>> thing). Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no
>> source. Were these items once manufactured? Are they still
>> available? Posi also? in the uk? with the old square section tapered
>> shank for locking into the chuck
> of
>> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked
>> bit?
>>
>> Tim w
>>
>>
>
> Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it?
> Brace and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a
> decent motor with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
I fear I must disagree with that. A power drill is no substitute for a
brace when it comes to what the OP is talking about. With a brace, it
is easier to apply force parallel to the screw to keep the bit in the
screw head; easier to tweak it out too since the rotation is as slow as
one wants.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Lee Valley.
"Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck
of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> Tim w
>
>
"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > "John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> I took a look at those drills, Mike, and noticed that they don't have
> >> side handles. How do you handle the torque that they produce? That
> >> short pistol grip handle wouldn't seem to give you much leverage.
> >>
> >
> > I just hold it firmly John. Sometimes I'll hold it sideways so the grip
is
> > off to a side instead of straight down and I can get a bit more feel of
> > control that way. I've never had the need for a side handle. I have
>
> ... which shows that such drills are limited in torque: If it had the
> necessary torque for example to tighten (or loosen) a cars wheel nut
> (above 100 Nm) you could not hold it without a long side handle.
>
Correct. The discussion is about drill motors for light weight work, not
impact guns. Even with a limited torque device like a 6A drill motor one
can encounter situations where the gun escapes their grip. Anyone who has
ever drilled holes through floor joists with a speed bore has experienced
this when the speed bore breaks through.
> [...]
>
> > I usually don't just squeeze the trigger to full speed either, and that
> > helps with the torque thing. Running a speed bore into a floor joist is
one
> > thing - I'll just hog right into that, but for most other things I
generally
> > attack the work with less torque. I'm one of those guys that you'll
never
> > see running a drill motor up to high speed with a metal cutting bit in
it,
> > or with a tech adapter chucked in, so again - the torque thing isn't as
big
> > a problem as you might think.
>
> Do not confuse torque with speed. Unfortunately most (all?) the
> cordless screw drivers with a torque control arre uncalibrated, in
> other words they just show some numbers without any unit.
>
No confusion. However we experience the torque of the tool in direct
proportion to the speed as we ease into or wail on the trigger.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike, you've just about convinced me. Especially as I get older, I
> realize that I shouldn't be taxing myself with hand tools when I can
> use power ones.
Rugh-Roh, that wasn't my intent. I was enjoying the dialog and
understanding why people use what they use, compared to why I use what I
use. Something of an academic exercise to make usenet both useful to me and
enjoyable.
> What sort of drill motor and bits should I be considering?
>
I just have a 3/8 DeWalt variable speed drill motor. I think mine is a 6A
motor. I retrofitted a 1/2" chuck to it a long time ago just to handle a
couple of bigger things that I put in it. It has plenty of power to handle
the things I use it for so putting the 1/2" chuck on never concerned me.
Like you, I don't want to be hauling out the wheel barrel just to move my
drill around, so big enough to do what I need, is big enough for me. I
chuck up pretty much what ever I need to do the job. I've got things like
ground down 3/8" socket wrench extensions that I can chuck into it for
running nuts and bolts as might be required. Beats grabbing an impact gun
sometimes and is much faster than an air ratchet. Of course I have #2 and
#3 Phillips tips. What I like about it over my cordless gun is that for
jobs that might be similar to what the OP posted that got this thread going,
it has the power to lay into it and very slowly try to work a screw. You
don't have to hit the trigger and develop too much speed right off the bat,
only to eat up a screw head.
But I will say this John - I was a long time getting into grabbing a hand
plane, tuning it up and putting it seriously to a piece of work. I don't
get into it like some of the guys here, but once I got my plane tuned up and
sharp, I was so impressed with every aspect of using it that I haven't
grabbed my power planer since. It works extremely well, is easier to grab
and "setup" than my power planer (don't have to move crap away from the
outlet to plug it in), and most important - it's so much more fun to use. I
still get a thrill out of watching a curl grow out of it, and love the sound
of it moving across a piece of wood. Simple minds, simple pleasures. All
that to say that so many of the old tools are indeed much cooler to use. I
wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from going that route - even if being
cooler was the only reason, and sometimes there's other reasons to stick
with them.
As for drill motors, I believe in small tools with lots of power. Big tools
are hard to maneuver, sometimes hard to use accurately. I like a 3/8" motor
with a rating like mine (6A) or thereabouts, and a good trigger. I like to
be able to creep the motor up from a dead stop to just barely trying to
turn. And of course - it just wouldn't be right unless it really whizzed
too. For me, the DeWalt has served that well. But... don't you go putting
that brace and bit up in the attic.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:T_xUf.15$ah3.14@trnddc06...
>
> I fear I must disagree with that. A power drill is no substitute for a
> brace when it comes to what the OP is talking about. With a brace, it
> is easier to apply force parallel to the screw to keep the bit in the
> screw head; easier to tweak it out too since the rotation is as slow as
> one wants.
>
Don't fear it - I actually gave those two considerations some thought before
I posted. Decided that the difference in force that one could apply to a
brace versus a drill motor wasn't big enough to be concerned about, and that
a decent variable speed motor will allow you to back a screw out with enough
control. I know I've certainly fought many a stubborn screw out with my
motor. In fact, it seems to me that it would be easier to maintain a well
controlled angle with a drill motor which does not require you to bear into
it while at the same time attempting to turn it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DuTUf.4339$6%2.1928@trnddc08...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > I see lots of potential for the very screw damage that the
> > OP was fearful of.
>
> As I'm sure you know, the best way to minimize that potential with
> either a brace or motored drill is to use a bit that fits the screw
> perfectly. Especially but not exclusively slotted screws.
>
Oh yeah!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You probably won't find any #24 screws around, nor even any #18s or
> #16s. They are for really heavy jobs, like mounting bench vises.
> Don't understand the part about machine screws, though. Are you using
> them in tapped holes in metal? That shouldn't require much torque. Or
> are you for some reason using them in wood?
No - sheet metal screws. I'm sorry, I used the wrong word and didn't catch
it when I re-read before posting.
>
> You are right about the #3 Phillips bits - they do make them. I'm sure
> you know the importance of fitting a screwdriver to a slotted screw,
> and I've never seen a 1/4" hex bit large enough for, say, a #14 screw.
> I was wrong about the #3 Phillips, though.
Yes indeed - I do appreciate the importance of fitting the right sized
driver to the head. So tell me - and again, this is not in the spirit of
argument, it's in the spirit of genuine question - will the bit used for a
#14 or perhaps even a #16 (the bit you would use in a brace) not chuck into
a 3/8 "or 1/2" drill motor chuck?
>
> It sounds like the drill motor is the perfect tool for you. Horses for
> courses.
>
Probably better said that it has served me well in what I have done. Don't
want you to take from this that I believe it's the ultimate answer. It may
always be a good tool for what I do and I may never encounter a situation
where another tool would truly be a better alternative, but all the same it
is interesting to understand the real differences and benefits of another
approach.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I took a look at those drills, Mike, and noticed that they don't have
> side handles. How do you handle the torque that they produce? That
> short pistol grip handle wouldn't seem to give you much leverage.
>
I just hold it firmly John. Sometimes I'll hold it sideways so the grip is
off to a side instead of straight down and I can get a bit more feel of
control that way. I've never had the need for a side handle. I have
grabbed right around the body of the motor before, again - to get the feel
of more control. Don't know if it actually provided much more control, or
was just a feel thing. I guess I just don't find a drill motor to be very
unsteady feeling in my hand, so as to need something like the side handle.
I usually don't just squeeze the trigger to full speed either, and that
helps with the torque thing. Running a speed bore into a floor joist is one
thing - I'll just hog right into that, but for most other things I generally
attack the work with less torque. I'm one of those guys that you'll never
see running a drill motor up to high speed with a metal cutting bit in it,
or with a tech adapter chucked in, so again - the torque thing isn't as big
a problem as you might think.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been trying to follow your logic on this, Mike, and I've got to
> admit I'm baffled.
Hmmmmm... then it was poorly articulated. My logic seemed quite clear to
me. But then it should, shouldn't it?
>
> For small screws - say #6 through #10 - and particularly in softwoods,
> your electric drill is fine. So is a plain screwdriver, a Yankee-type
> ratchet screwdriver, or even a brace and bit. With the larger screws,
> though - #14, #16, even #24 - a brace and screwdriver bit is the only
> way to go.
#24 I'd have to check into. Off the top of my head I do not know what that
size is. I have though used my drill motor well beyond #10, and in other
than pine. Likewise, not just wood screws, but machine screws.
>
> I just took a look at some #24 flat head wood screws. The head is 3/4"
> wide, and a 1/2" Stanley screwdriver bit fits it pretty well. The bit
> is actually about 5/8" wide but beveled to 1/2" at the tip. If I had a
> lot of #24 screws to drive (or remove) I'd probably grind it back
> somewhat to make it fit even better. I've never seen a bit for a drill
> motor that will fit a screw that size - have you? Or even one for a
> #14 slot, or for a #3 Phillips.
#14 slot - can't speak to that one. #3 Phillips - I have several tips right
in my drawer. They are quite common.
>
> The bit brace is far more stable than an electric drill. It is longer,
> and the pad is designed to be braced by not just your hand, but also by
> your chest, thigh or even forehead if necessary. An electric drill is
> difficult to brace in that way. And, that extra support from your
> chest, thigh or forehead also translates into extra pressure holding
> the bit in the screw slot - which keeps it from camming out.
Several people have stated this so I have to believe there is truth to it.
I did wonder though, how many of those who spoke did so not out of
experience, but out of having heard it said. I know some of the guys do
work with these tools daily and really do have first hand experience. I'm
comfotable saying that it does not seem like the brace would be more stable
to me, but it's based on my use of a brace and first hand knowledge that a
brace can be quite an akward tool if not perfectly centered and held
perfectly square to the work. This doesn't necessarily argue your point, it
only explains why I hold mine.
>
> An offset of 3" or 4"? Those 6" and 8" sweep braces are pretty rare,
> although they are good for driving smaller screws. Most of the braces
> you'll find are larger. I've got a half dozen or so, with sweeps
> ranging from 8" to 14". The 14" brace is capable of driving a #24
> screw into hardwood without any great effort. I'm guessing your drill
> motor would have a tough time with that, assuming that you could get a
> bit to fit it.
>
Well, it would be interesting to see. I'm not about to say that a drill
motor can drive anything that a brace can - hell, like I said, I don't even
know off the top of my head what a #24 screw looks like. I have to say that
I'd be surprised if it proved that the drill motor couldn't. But then
again, I've been surprised before.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
With all due repect, one point in in favor of the brace & bit solution is
the brace is designed with a large flat knob on the end of the handle that
you can place against your chest as you rotate the bit, thus bringing your
full body weight to bear on the screw head if necessary. (I hate to admit
I'm old enough to have used one of these in my younger days). That's hard
to do with a 'motor' drill as they are designed to be pushed by your hand
which brings your wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints into play as you try to
apply pressure. As Isac Newton said, it all comes down to physics .....
(sorry, I made that up).
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > ...the _best_ tool for
> > > > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > > > screwdriver bit in an old brace ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why not just chuck a common bit into your drill motor and go at it?
> Brace
> > > and bit might have been the appropriate tool years ago, but a decent
> motor
> > > with a tech adapter in it is the modern day equivalent.
> > >
> > Right. Why not use a chain saw, or dynamite? ;-)
> > I want to extract the old screws without breaking them or messing the
> heads.
> >
>
> You seem to believe it's not possible to do so with a drill motor. Ok.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>
Tim W wrote:
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool
> for removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is
> a screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill
> thing). Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no
> source. Were these items once manufactured? Are they still available?
> Posi also? in the uk? with the old square section tapered shank for
> locking into the chuck of the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to
> take a hexagonal shanked bit?
You *don't* want a cranked hand drill for that, you want a brace.
Screwdriver bits for same can be found at most any marine supplier such
as Jamestown Distributors. Wouldn't surprise me if Vermont American
and/or Irwin still makes them, should find things made by them at most
any hardware store which should be able to order. No real need though,
you can chuck most any shape in a brace.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9mvUf.66$Fl.51@fed1read09...
>
> > Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> > removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> > screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> > Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> > these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in
the
> > uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck
of
> > the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
> >
> > Tim w
> >
> >
>
> Hello, here is your catagory for eBay, in England:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/
> Collectables> Tools & Hardware> Tools> Carpentry/ Woodworking
>
> There, you can see your catagory links on your left, and you can select
"UK
> only" in a drop down.
>
> Braces are usually two jawed (98% of them), and the bits have a tapered
> square head. Just search through all the pages until you find screwdriver
bits
> and a brace you want, the best ever made are Yankee Bell system by North
> Bros., and later the same by Stanley, as long as it is a Yankee. The
model
> Nos. are 2101 and the better 2100, 10" swing (5" depth) size is most
common.
> As I see it, you have braces available there, and drill bits.
>
> The two jawed chuck will also accept shanks that do not have the tapered
> square head, as long as it is set in deep enough, so you could cut the
handles
> off a couple of old screwdrivers, not skinny ones. For drill bits you
will need
> a bit sharpening file if you buy them used. Only that file is properly
designed
> for the job, made by Nicholson and available at Lee Valley, or needle
files
> and small sharpening stones.
>
> Here is an adapter you can get from the US,
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&cat=1,180&p=42337
> It will take 1/4" hex bits that are common, adapted to the brace chuck.
>
> http://axminster.co.uk has a brace and the best bits that are new, but
those
> prices are beyond, I wouldn't do it.
>
> If you can get someting like Craftsman "screw outs", they could probably
> work in a brace as well:
>
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p
id=00952154000
> I don't know if Craftsman is sold over there, check axminster for them.
>
> Good luck,
Excellent, many thanks. I didn't make it clear I already have the brace. I
hadn't thought of cutting the tip off a screwdriver. That is what I will do,
except I will use a cheapy new one instead of a worn out old one.
Tim W
Still pretty much common in good old Europe.
See e.g.
http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/DE/Catalog/NULL?action=Mediathek&PIG=NLFWINFO&PID=2006_01_onlinekat
Product No. 707182
regards Matthias
Tim W wrote:
> Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
> removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
> screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
> Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
>
> Tim w
>
>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:28:19 +0000, Tim W opined:
> hadn't thought of cutting the tip off a screwdriver. That is what I will do,
As long as you have the metal tools out, go ahead and file or grind a
couple of flats on the end of the shank. That way you won't need a death
grip to keep it from turning in the chuck.
Regarding the notion of chucking a hex tip: You might want to use one of
the longer tips. The large brace chuck will obscure your view if it's too
close to the surface.
(I'm waiting for someone to market dedicated Robertson tips for Yankee
screwdrivers, instead of hex-adaptor + tip.)
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
wreck20051219 at spambob.net
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:14:10 -0800, John Martin opined:
> That said, though, I couldn't find them in any recent catalogs
Tools for Working Wood, http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com :
6, 8, and 10 mm straight, $11.84 - $14.22
Phillips 1/2 and 3/4, $20.16
Part numbers EE-8751.506, .508, .510, .612, .634
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
wreck20051219 at spambob.net
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MSCUf.90$Fl.46@fed1read09...
>
> > Excellent, many thanks. I didn't make it clear I already have the brace.
I
> > hadn't thought of cutting the tip off a screwdriver. That is what I will
do,
> > except I will use a cheapy new one instead of a worn out old one.
> >
> > Tim W
>
> Yes, make sure you have two inches that will go into the chuck, and then
the
> length you need that comes out from the chuck. A full 5" total length is
good.
> And when mounted, that chuck must be as tight as possible without being
> impossible to loosen.
>
Actually having experimented the chuck of my brace will hold an ordinary
hexagonal magnetic driver bit-holder perfectly fast, so there is no neeed
for a special bit and no need for cutting tips off of screwdrivers.I
shouldn't even have posted the question here without checking this first.
tim W
Matthias Muehe wrote:
> Still pretty much common in good old Europe.
> See e.g.
> http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/DE/Catalog/NULL?action=Mediathek&PIG=NLFWINFO&PID=2006_01_onlinekat
>
> Product No. 707182
>
This link may work better:
<URL:http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/4423ac91000ddb90274050f33609064c/Product/View/707182>
And have a look here also:
<URL:http://www.fine-tools.com/bohr1.htm>
JES
"Tim W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> these items once manufactured? Are they still available? Posi also? in the
> uk? with the old square section tapered shank for locking into the chuck
of
> the brace? Or can the brace be adapted to take a hexagonal shanked bit?
Not sure what kind of brace you have or talking about, but the old one my
father had, used three teeth to grab any round bit or something with 3
sides. It also held the bit with the V notch in them that locked into place
on those tools designed to use them.
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:08:43 GMT, "Tim W"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Reading an old book on boatbuilding, the writer says the _best_ tool for
>removing old corroded screws, or any tricky screwing operation is a
>screwdriver bit in an old brace (brace & bit cranked hand drill thing).
There's a lot to be said for that - at least for slotted screws. I also
still use mine for drilling big holes with spade bits - I like the
controllability as it breaks through.
>Sounds like just what I need, but a quick search reveals no source. Were
>these items once manufactured? Are they still available?
yes, Draper still make them. Maybe Stanley / Record too.
I'd suggest getting an old one though, and certainly avoiding the
Draper. If the steel rod of the frame is too thin, then they become
springy. If you're putting a lot of force onto the end button to hold it
into a screw slot then they bounce up and down uncontrollably.
You also want an old one with a wooden handle, not moulded plastic with
a seam line across the middle.
Best of all is perhaps a "joist brace", which has a short body and a
single side handle. It's intended for use between floor joists, but it
also has less spring to it, a shorter distance between tool and rear pad
handle and just as much torque.
The older antique braces had button locking to hold the bits, which is
why old bits have a notch filed in their square tapered shank. Later and
modern ones have a two jaw tapered chuck. This will _not_ grip a
parallel sided drill bit. You also need to get a good screwdriver bit to
fit it, and although pozidrive bits do exist, they're hard to find.
You also want a brace with a good quality lockable ratchet. I'd suggest
40-50 year old Stanley kit off eBay.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
> "John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I took a look at those drills, Mike, and noticed that they don't have
>> side handles. How do you handle the torque that they produce? That
>> short pistol grip handle wouldn't seem to give you much leverage.
>>
>
> I just hold it firmly John. Sometimes I'll hold it sideways so the grip is
> off to a side instead of straight down and I can get a bit more feel of
> control that way. I've never had the need for a side handle. I have
... which shows that such drills are limited in torque: If it had the
necessary torque for example to tighten (or loosen) a cars wheel nut
(above 100 Nm) you could not hold it without a long side handle.
[...]
> I usually don't just squeeze the trigger to full speed either, and that
> helps with the torque thing. Running a speed bore into a floor joist is one
> thing - I'll just hog right into that, but for most other things I generally
> attack the work with less torque. I'm one of those guys that you'll never
> see running a drill motor up to high speed with a metal cutting bit in it,
> or with a tech adapter chucked in, so again - the torque thing isn't as big
> a problem as you might think.
Do not confuse torque with speed. Unfortunately most (all?) the
cordless screw drivers with a torque control arre uncalibrated, in
other words they just show some numbers without any unit.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23