On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
kind of wood:
1) No treated lumber
2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
substance
3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
cover it anyway.
5) 8 feet high
Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
Doug Kanter wrote:
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
> March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
> kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
> 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
> cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
>
Use Red Cedar or Redwood. Either will work just great. If you want to
save money and don't care about rot, then use Doug Fir.
Philski
> PT? The synthetic stuff?
>
> As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
> This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of any
> kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically unlikely
> they are to leach out of the wood.
Hi Doug,
SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies (me). I
have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes, trellis's
made from same).
Built all this before the warnings.
Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
normal (or maybe it's just me).
(I probably would not use the same today.)
Lou
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
WILL
> be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
I've had purple tomatoes. The white eggplant did have a pinkish end on it
too. You'd be amazed at what is available.
Given that you don't care how long it lasts and apparently don't care
how pretty it is, does the type of wood matter. Why not buy the
cheapest stuff you can find? Better yet don't use wood at all, use
wire fencing.
Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
inference made by me), wouldn't it be wiser to add a preservative so
another tree doens't have to be killed for your trellis replacment in
5 years?
Cedar is cheapest. I'd reconsider the preservative thing and use
Penafin.
Red Wood is prettier (IMO) and last longer. Again, I'd use a
preservative.
Do you use sun screen?
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
> March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
> kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
> 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
> cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of
the
> >> >garden.
> >> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
> >chemicals
> >> >of
> >> >> >any
> >> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
> >theoretically
> >> >> >unlikely
> >> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi Doug,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies
> >(me). I
> >> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
> >trellis's
> >> >> >> made from same).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything
seems
> >> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Lou
> >> >> >
> >> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and
there
> >> >WILL
> >> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
> >> >> >
> >> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and
pink
> >> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame
them
> >> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that
originated
> >> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
> >> >
> >> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on
what
> >> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden,
at
> >> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
> >EVERYTHING.
> >> >:-)
> >> >
> >> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
> >> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
> >> tomatoes.
> >>
> >> --RC
> >
> >Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early &
> >late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This
reminds
> >me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing on
the
> >list.
> >
> Living in this part of the country, early frosts are the _last_ thing
> we have to worry about. We deal more with companies like "Southern
> Seeds".
Well, MY biggest problem right now is that I planted some bulbs yesterday
and the damned things haven't made flowers yet. I'm gonna sue somebody.
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
In that case, #2 pine from the big box store
Otherwise, cypress
PT? The synthetic stuff?
As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of any
kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically unlikely
they are to leach out of the wood.
"Mark L." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've done outside projects with cedar and it holds up well over the
> years. In the midwest we have hot summers along with cold and snowy
> winters. Cheaper than redwood.... Esp since it will be covered, I'd do
> cedar. Much easier to find in the midwest. OTOH, if it will be totally
> covered, why not use PT? Stain it to look like cedar. Mark L.
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
> > On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage
before
> > March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a
certain
> > kind of wood:
> >
> > 1) No treated lumber
> > 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> > substance
> > 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make
another.
> > 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will
completely
> > cover it anyway.
> > 5) 8 feet high
> >
> > Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
> >
> >
>
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage
before
> > March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a
certain
> > kind of wood:
> >
> > 1) No treated lumber
> > 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> > substance
> > 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make
another.
> > 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will
completely
> > cover it anyway.
> > 5) 8 feet high
> >
> > Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
> Yes and yes, also black locust, honey locust, sassafrass, osage orange
> (aka hedge, aka bois d'arc, aka bodark), Catalpa, or Cypress will
> all last a while even in ground contact.
>
> Since you're not worried if it only lasts a year, white oak or Doug fir
> would do fine.
What are typical 2x10s? Pine? It just dawned on me (while setting up the
cold frame today) that I built that out of untreated 2x10s and it's lasted 6
years so far. It was never IN the ground, but spent those years ON the
ground, through rain & snow, and there's no sign of rot.
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:00:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
>March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
>kind of wood:
>
>1) No treated lumber
>2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
>substance
>3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
>4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
>cover it anyway.
>5) 8 feet high
>
>Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
Cedar or Redwood are good choices. Teak, cypress and white oak are
other good choices for outdoor wood. The composite wood is another
choice. You can use wood sold as fence pickets.
"Rob Stokes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:akOld.173808$9b.156726@edtnps84...
> I'd use cedar, but mainly because that's what's readily available here.
>
> Not sure of your design, but I've had good luck buying 8' cedar 2x2's and
> ripping them into 4 equal strips and then using the strips to make the
> trellis. It's usually cheaper than buying any other form of cedar and for
> some reason, 2x2's are usually a better quality than like-graded 2x4's.
This
> size strip (just under 3/4" square) is easily bent if you want it to be,
but
> is strong enough to hold itself straight as well.
>
> Side note. When I "hang" a trellis off the house I barely set it in the
dirt
> about 6" away from the foundation, and use block up top on the building to
> attach it 6" away from the siding. This way, when it comes time to paint
the
> house, I can remove the blocks, "hinge" the trellis down and out of the
way
> and do what I need to do. This also tends to keep the plant away form the
> house (which is good for the house) and allows airflow behind the plant
> (which is good for the house AND the plant).
>
> Good luck
> Rob
Good attachment ideas. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet. In my last
garden, the vines were up against a wooden garage. Now, I have a garage with
aluminum siding. I'll probably put a few stainless steel screw eyes through
the siding and use wire ties to hold up the trellis.
"Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
> inference made by me)
If more of a concern about what sort of crap leaches into what I eat.
Industrial chemicals have not, can not and never will be tested for safety.
Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>>>> "Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
>>>>>> inference made by me)
>>>>>
>>>>> If more of a concern about what sort of crap leaches into what I
>>>>> eat. Industrial chemicals have not, can not and never will be
>>>>> tested for safety.
>>>
>>> I just saw a garden yesterday that had iron pipes pounded into the
>>> ground and the trellis attached to the pipes. After reading your
>>> post I wondered if gardeners had the same concerns as you do. If
>>> you don't want to attach the trellis to the house a "W" shaped
>>> trellis might be free-standing.
>>>
>>> Josie
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Most vegetable gardeners I meet share on motive, to some extent: The
>> desire to have a certain amount of food without wondering what weird
>> stuff it was treated with.
Sorry, I meant - I wondered if *those particular gardeners* shared your
concerns. I know a lot of people share *your* concerns. :)
Josie
"firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> "Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >>> Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
> >>> inference made by me)
> >>
> >> If more of a concern about what sort of crap leaches into what I eat.
> >> Industrial chemicals have not, can not and never will be tested for
> >> safety.
>
> I just saw a garden yesterday that had iron pipes pounded into the ground
> and the trellis attached to the pipes. After reading your post I
wondered
> if gardeners had the same concerns as you do. If you don't want to attach
> the trellis to the house a "W" shaped trellis might be free-standing.
>
> Josie
>
>
Most vegetable gardeners I meet share on motive, to some extent: The desire
to have a certain amount of food without wondering what weird stuff it was
treated with.
Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
>>> inference made by me)
>>
>> If more of a concern about what sort of crap leaches into what I eat.
>> Industrial chemicals have not, can not and never will be tested for
>> safety.
I just saw a garden yesterday that had iron pipes pounded into the ground
and the trellis attached to the pipes. After reading your post I wondered
if gardeners had the same concerns as you do. If you don't want to attach
the trellis to the house a "W" shaped trellis might be free-standing.
Josie
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:11:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >
> >As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
> >This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of
any
> >kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically
unlikely
> >they are to leach out of the wood.
>
> stain with the same dirt from that part of the garden. take a handful,
> sift it to remove the too big stuff and the twigs and worms and mix
> with linseed oil.
>
> she can't complain about that now, can she?
She? It's ME that won't use chemicals around the garden. :-)
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Doug Kanter <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of
> >the
> >> >> >garden.
> >> >> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
> >> >chemicals
> >> >> >of
> >> >> >> >any
> >> >> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
> >> >theoretically
> >> >> >> >unlikely
> >> >> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Hi Doug,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and
veggies
> >> >(me). I
> >> >> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
> >> >trellis's
> >> >> >> >> made from same).
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything
> >seems
> >> >> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Lou
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and
> >there
> >> >> >WILL
> >> >> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and
> >pink
> >> >> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame
> >them
> >> >> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that
> >originated
> >> >> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based
on
> >what
> >> >> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large
garden,
> >at
> >> >> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
> >> >EVERYTHING.
> >> >> >:-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
> >> >> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of
Russian
> >> >> tomatoes.
> >> >>
> >> >> --RC
> >> >
> >> >Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early
&
> >> >late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This
> >reminds
> >> >me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing
on
> >the
> >> >list.
> >> >
> >> Living in this part of the country, early frosts are the _last_ thing
> >> we have to worry about. We deal more with companies like "Southern
> >> Seeds".
> >
> >Well, MY biggest problem right now is that I planted some bulbs yesterday
> >and the damned things haven't made flowers yet. I'm gonna sue somebody.
>
> GE, Sylvania, or some no-name brand?
>
> Were they incandascents? You should have used rapid-start floursecents!
>
>
>
Halogen daffodils.
I've done outside projects with cedar and it holds up well over the
years. In the midwest we have hot summers along with cold and snowy
winters. Cheaper than redwood.... Esp since it will be covered, I'd do
cedar. Much easier to find in the midwest. OTOH, if it will be totally
covered, why not use PT? Stain it to look like cedar. Mark L.
Doug Kanter wrote:
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
> March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
> kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
> 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
> cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
> >>
> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >> >
> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the
garden.
> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals
of
> >any
> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically
> >unlikely
> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
> >>
> >> Hi Doug,
> >>
> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies (me). I
> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes, trellis's
> >> made from same).
> >>
> >> Built all this before the warnings.
> >>
> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
> >>
> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
> >>
> >> Lou
> >
> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
> >
> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
WILL
> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
> >
> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on what
tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden, at
least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant EVERYTHING.
:-)
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
> WILL
> > be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>
> I've had purple tomatoes. The white eggplant did have a pinkish end on it
> too. You'd be amazed at what is available.
>
>
You might enjoy a book called "The Botany of Desire". It's got a section
about a potato from Monsanto which has had genes from Bt (bacillus
thuringensis) spliced into it so it'll resist some major potato pest. Bt is
normally pretty harmless, but the book presents some potentially spooky
thoughts about what might happen when this enormously useful biological
control is overused.
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage
> before March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point
> to a certain kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make
> another. 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant
> will completely cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
>
>
Yes. Yes. Cypress if you can get it. What's local to you?
I'm in California. My mother's family comes from Mendocino County. I
build outdoors with redwood, for sentimental reasons. I have fond memories
of driving up CA Highway 1, in a '56 Buick, passing the redwood fences,
festooned with mossy abalone shells, on the way to visit the grandparents.
We have a picture of my great grandfather, with a mule, a saw and a redwood
log as thick as he was tall.
Headed up that way again this week, for other reasons.
Patriarch
"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>
> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >
> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of
any
> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically
unlikely
> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies (me). I
> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes, trellis's
> made from same).
>
> Built all this before the warnings.
>
> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>
> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>
> Lou
OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there WILL
be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>>
>> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
>> >
>> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
>> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of
>any
>> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically
>unlikely
>> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>>
>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies (me). I
>> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes, trellis's
>> made from same).
>>
>> Built all this before the warnings.
>>
>> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
>> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>>
>> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>>
>> Lou
>
>OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
>
>By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there WILL
>be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>
You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
I'd use cedar, but mainly because that's what's readily available here.
Not sure of your design, but I've had good luck buying 8' cedar 2x2's and
ripping them into 4 equal strips and then using the strips to make the
trellis. It's usually cheaper than buying any other form of cedar and for
some reason, 2x2's are usually a better quality than like-graded 2x4's. This
size strip (just under 3/4" square) is easily bent if you want it to be, but
is strong enough to hold itself straight as well.
Side note. When I "hang" a trellis off the house I barely set it in the dirt
about 6" away from the foundation, and use block up top on the building to
attach it 6" away from the siding. This way, when it comes time to paint the
house, I can remove the blocks, "hinge" the trellis down and out of the way
and do what I need to do. This also tends to keep the plant away form the
house (which is good for the house) and allows airflow behind the plant
(which is good for the house AND the plant).
Good luck
Rob
--
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage
before
> March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
> kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
> 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
> cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
>
>
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>> >>
>> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the
>garden.
>> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals
>of
>> >any
>> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically
>> >unlikely
>> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>> >>
>> >> Hi Doug,
>> >>
>> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies (me). I
>> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes, trellis's
>> >> made from same).
>> >>
>> >> Built all this before the warnings.
>> >>
>> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
>> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>> >>
>> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>> >>
>> >> Lou
>> >
>> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
>> >
>> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
>WILL
>> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>> >
>> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
>> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
>> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
>> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
>
>I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on what
>tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden, at
>least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant EVERYTHING.
>:-)
>
If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
tomatoes.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the
>> >garden.
>> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
>chemicals
>> >of
>> >> >any
>> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
>theoretically
>> >> >unlikely
>> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Doug,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies
>(me). I
>> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
>trellis's
>> >> >> made from same).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
>> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Lou
>> >> >
>> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
>> >> >
>> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
>> >WILL
>> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>> >> >
>> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
>> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
>> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
>> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
>> >
>> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on what
>> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden, at
>> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
>EVERYTHING.
>> >:-)
>> >
>> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
>> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
>> tomatoes.
>>
>> --RC
>
>Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early &
>late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This reminds
>me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing on the
>list.
>
Living in this part of the country, early frosts are the _last_ thing
we have to worry about. We deal more with companies like "Southern
Seeds".
--RC (in the low desert)
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage
> > before March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point
> > to a certain kind of wood:
> >
> > 1) No treated lumber
> > 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> > substance
> > 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make
> > another. 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant
> > will completely cover it anyway.
> > 5) 8 feet high
> >
> > Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes. Yes. Cypress if you can get it. What's local to you?
I have to vote for iether the Cypress or Cedar.
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Kanter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of
>the
>> >> >garden.
>> >> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
>> >chemicals
>> >> >of
>> >> >> >any
>> >> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
>> >theoretically
>> >> >> >unlikely
>> >> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hi Doug,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies
>> >(me). I
>> >> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
>> >trellis's
>> >> >> >> made from same).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything
>seems
>> >> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Lou
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and
>there
>> >> >WILL
>> >> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and
>pink
>> >> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame
>them
>> >> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that
>originated
>> >> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
>> >> >
>> >> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on
>what
>> >> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden,
>at
>> >> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
>> >EVERYTHING.
>> >> >:-)
>> >> >
>> >> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
>> >> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
>> >> tomatoes.
>> >>
>> >> --RC
>> >
>> >Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early &
>> >late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This
>reminds
>> >me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing on
>the
>> >list.
>> >
>> Living in this part of the country, early frosts are the _last_ thing
>> we have to worry about. We deal more with companies like "Southern
>> Seeds".
>
>Well, MY biggest problem right now is that I planted some bulbs yesterday
>and the damned things haven't made flowers yet. I'm gonna sue somebody.
GE, Sylvania, or some no-name brand?
Were they incandascents? You should have used rapid-start floursecents!
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On my list of 19,674 things to do, "build trellis for side of garage before
> March" is on the top 20. My requirements may or may not point to a certain
> kind of wood:
>
> 1) No treated lumber
> 2) No preservatives (applied by me) allowed, unless it's a food-safe
> substance
> 3) Don't care if it rots in one or two or five years - I'll make another.
> 4) Don't care what color it weathers to. A clematis plant will completely
> cover it anyway.
> 5) 8 feet high
>
> Cedar? Redwood? Other suggestions?
Yes and yes, also black locust, honey locust, sassafrass, osage orange
(aka hedge, aka bois d'arc, aka bodark), Catalpa, or Cypress will
all last a while even in ground contact.
Since you're not worried if it only lasts a year, white oak or Doug fir
would do fine.
--
FF
"Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
> What are typical 2x10s? Pine? It just dawned on me (while setting up the
> cold frame today) that I built that out of untreated 2x10s and it's lasted 6
> years so far. It was never IN the ground, but spent those years ON the
> ground, through rain & snow, and there's no sign of rot.
The Cheapest 2x10s are SPF, (Spruce, Pine, or Fir). Around here they
are usually spruce but in your area they may be pine and I suppose
in some places fir depending on what is cheapest locally. They typically
will not be hemlock, doug fir or southern yellow pine which have their
own species groups.
How long a wood lasts will be highly dependant on your climate.
--
FF
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
> >> >>
> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the
> >garden.
> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
chemicals
> >of
> >> >any
> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
theoretically
> >> >unlikely
> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Doug,
> >> >>
> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies
(me). I
> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
trellis's
> >> >> made from same).
> >> >>
> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
> >> >>
> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
> >> >>
> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
> >> >>
> >> >> Lou
> >> >
> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
> >> >
> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
> >WILL
> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
> >> >
> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
> >
> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on what
> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden, at
> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
EVERYTHING.
> >:-)
> >
> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
> tomatoes.
>
> --RC
Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early &
late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This reminds
me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing on the
list.
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:11:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>PT? The synthetic stuff?
>
>As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the garden.
>This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No chemicals of any
>kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how theoretically unlikely
>they are to leach out of the wood.
stain with the same dirt from that part of the garden. take a handful,
sift it to remove the too big stuff and the twigs and worms and mix
with linseed oil.
she can't complain about that now, can she?
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Doug Kanter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >
> > What are typical 2x10s? Pine? It just dawned on me (while setting up the
> > cold frame today) that I built that out of untreated 2x10s and it's
lasted 6
> > years so far. It was never IN the ground, but spent those years ON the
> > ground, through rain & snow, and there's no sign of rot.
>
> The Cheapest 2x10s are SPF, (Spruce, Pine, or Fir). Around here they
> are usually spruce but in your area they may be pine and I suppose
> in some places fir depending on what is cheapest locally. They typically
> will not be hemlock, doug fir or southern yellow pine which have their
> own species groups.
>
> How long a wood lasts will be highly dependant on your climate.
To add to the confusion, lumber yards in Long Island and NJ carry another
type of wood: Fuh
:-)
"firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> "firstjois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>> Doug Kanter wrote:
> >>>>> "Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Regardign #3, if you are so concerned about the environment (an
> >>>>>> inference made by me)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If more of a concern about what sort of crap leaches into what I
> >>>>> eat. Industrial chemicals have not, can not and never will be
> >>>>> tested for safety.
> >>>
> >>> I just saw a garden yesterday that had iron pipes pounded into the
> >>> ground and the trellis attached to the pipes. After reading your
> >>> post I wondered if gardeners had the same concerns as you do. If
> >>> you don't want to attach the trellis to the house a "W" shaped
> >>> trellis might be free-standing.
> >>>
> >>> Josie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Most vegetable gardeners I meet share on motive, to some extent: The
> >> desire to have a certain amount of food without wondering what weird
> >> stuff it was treated with.
>
> Sorry, I meant - I wondered if *those particular gardeners* shared your
> concerns. I know a lot of people share *your* concerns. :)
>
> Josie
>
>
Who's on first? :-) I think we miscommunicablated! About those gardeners,
maybe they didn't want to make holes in the wall behind the trellis.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:06:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:141120042030010476%[email protected]...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > PT? The synthetic stuff?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As far as staining, not permitted in this particular part of the
>> >garden.
>> >> >> > This one flowering plant will be surrounded by edibles. No
>chemicals
>> >of
>> >> >any
>> >> >> > kind near them, no matter WHAT the label says, or how
>theoretically
>> >> >unlikely
>> >> >> > they are to leach out of the wood.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Doug,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SWMBO and I are avid gardeners - both flowers (she) and veggies
>(me). I
>> >> >> have raised beds of 2 x 12 PT for almost 15 years (and, yes,
>trellis's
>> >> >> made from same).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Built all this before the warnings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Except for the purple tomatoes and pink eggplants, everything seems
>> >> >> normal (or maybe it's just me).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (I probably would not use the same today.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Lou
>> >> >
>> >> >OK. I'm awake now. PT - pressure treated. :-) Not an option.
>> >> >
>> >> >By the way, give the marketing droids at Burpee another year and there
>> >WILL
>> >> >be purple tomatoes and pink eggplants!
>> >> >
>> >> You're a little behind the curve, I'm afraid. Purple tomatoes and pink
>> >> eggplants are standard items of commerce. However you can't blame them
>> >> on Burpee. The purple tomatoes are heirloom variaties that originated
>> >> in Russia (IIRC) and the pink eggplant are an Asian variety.
>> >
>> >I probably am way behind. I keep planting the same tomatoes based on what
>> >tastes best. But, this year, I rototilled a ridiculously large garden, at
>> >least compared to what I've done in past years. I'm gonna plant
>EVERYTHING.
>> >:-)
>> >
>> If you live in the north, get a catalog from Johnny's Select Seeds.
>> Lots of good stuff for cold climates. Including a selection of Russian
>> tomatoes.
>>
>> --RC
>
>Cook's Garden is interesting, too. Lots of leafy greens good for early &
>late season, when outrageous frosts waste the normal lettuces. This reminds
>me...gotta set up the cold frame before the snow flies. Another thing on the
>list.
>
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?