I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
"rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
that much money? Sigh.
--
Davoud wrote:
> Doug Winterburn:
>>>> You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
>>>> gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only about
>>>> $3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another cost saving
>>>> is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing the restaurant
>>>> thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in any location to enjoy
>>>> the area, so even with travel days running about $100 for fuel, the
>>>> overall cost isn't bad compared to motels & restaurants with the rice
>>>> burner.
>
> Davoud:
>>> I think that this issue is not about whether one can afford to buy
>>> petrol. That's too naive and self-centered for me. I think it is about
>>> what our country can afford; how many sons and husbands we can afford
>>> to squander in oil wars, for example.
>
> Doug Winterburn:
>> So now the left has added RVs to their list of things to ban.
>
> Easy, there, big fella. Who said anything about banning RV's!? The only
> thing I did was (obviously) strike a nerve. It's your RV and it's your
> war, and if you are enjoying them, what else matters?
Ah, the liberal guilt/blame game. If there be blame to lay, it is at
the feet of liberal politicians who have made us dependent on foreign
oil by banning the use of our own resources. If you voted them in, the
blame is also yours.
>
> Seriously, I would never ban RV's or SUV's or other ridiculous gas
> guzzlers. I would simply tax fuel according to consumption. I would pay
> about $.25 with my Prius, more for my Avalon. You would pay about $500
> per gallon for your RV. The folks in the middle with their SUV's would
> pay a middle price -- $400 per gallon, let's say. More taxes? Yes, to
> pay for your war. Besides, these would be voluntary taxes. No one would
> have to pay them if they didn't want to!
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I hear ya'!
>
> What did LN say about your blade?
Exactly, as my grandmother says, complaining works! Many manufacturing
companies don't want to lose you as a customer, so if you call to complain
they'll try to make it right.
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
In article <[email protected]>, Chef Juke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
> So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
> joiners compare?
>
> The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
> far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
> would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
>
> How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
I had a DeWalt and ended up exchanging it for a Porter Cable, for
some reason the depth setting on mine (and the three stores near me,
Lowes, Woodcraft and Home Despot) wouldn't do anything less than a
large biscuit no matter what setting I turned it to. The Woodcraft guys
were perplexed. In the end I exchanged it for a Porter Cable, and while
the gear drive for the head is a bit nosier, I've otherwise been quite
happy with it.
--
MT - Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
101010
Lew Hodgett:
> > Bottom line....................
> >
> > Is ownership of that F250 worth $7,500/year this year and probably
> > more next year?
Puckdropper:
> For what we do with it, yep. It essentially replaced a minivan in lumber
> hauling duties, as well as took on additional duties for bigger things like
> the 4 wheeler.
Really? I knew in the back of my mind that my Nissan Titan had to go.
It was a wonderful truck, one of the most comfortable vehicles I've
ever driven. But it was killing people in Oil War II. Still, I kept
pushing that to the back of my mind. I "needed it to haul lumber," or
so I told myself.
One day, while driving it empty (as was usually the case) I was
following a Home Depot "$19 for one hour" truck. That did it. I traded
it for a Prius the next day. (Pickups were still in high demand, and
the Titan was cherry; CarMax gave me a better-than-retail trade-in.)
I just got a load of synthetic decking from a professional supplier who
will deliver free _if_ you let them pick the day and time of delivery
for maximum efficiency. Not everyone can do that, of course, but I had
my load within 36 hours of ordering it.
There are certainly a lot of people who have a legitimate need for a
light truck -- farmers, contractors, &c, but that number is _far_ lower
than the number of people who _own_ light trucks.
Davoud
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
Doug Winterburn:
> You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
> gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only about
> $3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another cost saving
> is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing the restaurant
> thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in any location to enjoy
> the area, so even with travel days running about $100 for fuel, the
> overall cost isn't bad compared to motels & restaurants with the rice
> burner.
I think that this issue is not about whether one can afford to buy
petrol. That's too naive and self-centered for me. I think it is about
what our country can afford; how many sons and husbands we can afford
to squander in oil wars, for example.
Davoud
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
Doug Winterburn:
> >> You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
> >> gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only about
> >> $3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another cost saving
> >> is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing the restaurant
> >> thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in any location to enjoy
> >> the area, so even with travel days running about $100 for fuel, the
> >> overall cost isn't bad compared to motels & restaurants with the rice
> >> burner.
Davoud:
> > I think that this issue is not about whether one can afford to buy
> > petrol. That's too naive and self-centered for me. I think it is about
> > what our country can afford; how many sons and husbands we can afford
> > to squander in oil wars, for example.
Doug Winterburn:
> So now the left has added RVs to their list of things to ban.
Easy, there, big fella. Who said anything about banning RV's!? The only
thing I did was (obviously) strike a nerve. It's your RV and it's your
war, and if you are enjoying them, what else matters?
Seriously, I would never ban RV's or SUV's or other ridiculous gas
guzzlers. I would simply tax fuel according to consumption. I would pay
about $.25 with my Prius, more for my Avalon. You would pay about $500
per gallon for your RV. The folks in the middle with their SUV's would
pay a middle price -- $400 per gallon, let's say. More taxes? Yes, to
pay for your war. Besides, these would be voluntary taxes. No one would
have to pay them if they didn't want to!
Davoud
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
dan wrote:
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
>
Years ago I bought the Ryobi. At the time it was around $80.00. After
using it a few times with poor results due to the slop in the slot it
cut I gave it away and bought the Porter Cable at $190.
You probably saved yourself $100 by getting the better joiner first.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Peter Huebner" wrote:
> 1 - I reckon I'm nowhere near good enough with a router to do
> that; plus routers scare the shit out of me.
Sounds like a personal problem to me<G>.
> 2- I use the bisquit joiner a LOT. And once you get really
> used to the little beastie and develop procedures, it's
> just so damn fast, and safe with it ... put it down
> anywhere immediately you finish the cuts without thinkig
> about spinning bits. I like that ;-D
No question about it, unless you dedicate a router /w/ a slot cutter
to a set-up, it can be a PITA to set up for a couple of biscuits.
It becomes a matter of convenience.
Lew
"Chef Juke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
I don't, not with the Festool Domino recently on the market. Take a look at
their video and then see if you still want/need a high end biscuit joiner ~
or any biscuit joiner for that matter.
http://www.festoolusa.com/pages.aspx?docid=553
On 02 Jun 2008 19:54:29 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>"rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
>the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
>that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
>needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
>building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
>have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
>that much money? Sigh.
Well, it may be overkill, not sure of the difference in ease of use, accuracy,
etc. in the 2 tools..
I wasn't sure that I would use biscuits, but wanted to try 'em, so a few years
ago I bought the "best" model that Harbor freight had, on sale for 1/2 price.. I
think I paid about $30..
I did some playing with it and a couple of small projects and realized a few
things..
Biscuits are cool and I'll never use a dowel in a joint again...
never glue the biscuits into one side and then try to assemble the joint..
DAMHIKT
The HF tool was well worth the price and worked well, but I needed a few more
features, like and adjustable fence and such..
As I was in the middle of a few months of very anal comparison research, my wife
bought me the Sears tool.. (DeWalt in a black case, I think)
It's been very good to me and I like it..
If it has any accuracy problems, I can't tell.. might be own skill level?
Have I mentioned that I'm a turner and don't usually do anything with corners or
joints? lol
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Jun 2, 7:11=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" =A0wrote >
>
> > If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
> > replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were
> > available. That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market=
> > "in that price range". =A0One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to th=
e
> > Festool Domino.
>
> I must be in that kind of mood today.
>
> And if a spaceship were to land carring some exotic tools requiring
> batteries from another planet, Leon would buy it!
>
> Cuz, naturally, it is the next evolutionary step up from the Festool.
I'm thinking of attaching a pair of Festool MFK 700 Modular Routers to
an ultra-light air craft.
Waitasec.. I NEED a pair for my business.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:11:21 +1200, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> I wonder if it would be less expensive to go to Germany, find a job, make
>> some money, buy all the Festools I want, and bring'up back home.
>>
>
>Waitaminnit! My wife is over there at the moment.
>Maybe I should ....
> .... nah, not really. I just bought a 30" monitor for a
>new toy. Don't want to rock the boat. ;-D
>
> -P.
Go for it...
Use the magic word... ON SALE
Ladies love a bargain..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:09:32 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>"dan" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
>> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
>> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
>> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
>> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
>> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
>> that much money? Sigh.
>
>Au contraire ... you did good!
>
>You've already gotten over the biggest hurdle - you will no longer have the
>frustration of attempting to do even the most mundane of tasks with sub par
>tools.
>
>Instead, you can now consider the extra bucks as an investment in the future
>satisfaction of jobs well done ... jobs that will allow you to relax, sit
>back, have a brew, and contemplate what you accomplished at the end of each
>with satisfaction.
>
>Congratulations!
Ah, Swingman I think you get it.
When I did my quality preach, the most prevelant of my soapbox rants,
I used to remind my colleagues "we do not make and sell machinery, we
make and sell "satisfaction".
Frank
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> When I saw my first aticle about biscuit joining I decided to try the
>> Freud as a kind of Proof Of Concept.
>>
>> It worked well enough that I bought a Lamello.
>
> And, what kind of improvement did you see with the Lamello? My first and
> only biscuit joiner was and is a Freud. However, in the fifteen or so
> years
> I've had it, I doubt it's been used more than five times, so it's not as
> if
> I need one that would offer greater capability.
From every thing I have read it is a fine piece of machinery that does
exactly what it is suppose to do. In contrast many other lesser brands make
inconsistent thickness cuts.
On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:29:06 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>...and besides, I've yet to see diesel trucks with fifth wheel hitches
>for rent.
They won't be at the same location as the car rentals, but they can be
found.
Ryder, Hertz, and Penske rent them in my area, as does the occasional
used truck dealer. Typically, they're based on dualie pickups.
I know a classic race car tuner that rents them to tow his goosenecks
to races 8-10 times a year. He owns two goosenecks and two 53'
haulers, one pickup and no tractors. On race weekends it all needs to
go, so he rents. Of course, the truck will probably be YELLOW, with
Scotchlight lettering all over it! <G> He's got these cool, custom
race trailers behind a yellow and blue striped rented truck!
I used to buy used trucks from a large local Ryder depot, they had
everything from beer/soda trucks, to tankers, to cherry pickers, even
school busses and sweepers.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
I have never heard a person complain about the
high quality tools he owns, but if you hang around
here long enough, you will hear a good bit of whining
about how their new $30 "whatever" is a real POS.
Never regret buying good... You want to have good
tools at the estate sale don't you ???
dan wrote:
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
>
"Puckdropper" wrote:
> That's exactly why I have a Prius and an F250. The Prius is my
> daily
> vehicle, while the F250 is the "go get something big" vehicle. I'll
> put
> two or three tanks of gas in my Prius before I fill up the F250.
My guess is by the time you factor in depreciation, insurance, fuel,
repairs and license costs, you are looking $0.75/mile, based on 10,000
miles/year.
Bottom line....................
Is ownership of that F250 worth $7,500/year this year and probably
more next year?
Lew
"dicko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:50:18 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I can warn you of one problem that most every one experiences. If cutting
>>slots in the edge or end of a board "do not" use the surface of the bench
>>as
>>the reference for the plate joiner if your good surface is not on the up
>>side.
>
> Why? I don't see what the problem would be.
>
> -dickm
>
I used to be a Rockwell only user, then I switched (for no particular
reason) to DeWalt and about a year ago I switched to Porter Cable. I've been
happiest, so far, with Porter Cable. They just seem to be better and put a
little more thoughtfulness into their products. A real thorn in my side with
DeWalt is the damn cases they make for their tools. They are the most ill
conceived pieces of crap I've ever seen. That might be the ultimate reason I
switched. I think it's just like everything else, the eye of the beholder.
--
I'm JC and I approved this message.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" wrote
>>
>>> I have the Domino and the PC 557 and PC556. The Domino is superior in
>>> all respects. IMHO it will make Lamello have to rethink its pricing
>>> policy.
>> And/or its technology.
>
>
> I was almost going to add that but regardless of the technology of the
> Plate joiner, you still have to use biscuits as the fastener. The
> Domino's are superior. Now if Lamello develops something better than the
> Domino, that would be a way to go.
>
I am not going to guess at what Lamello is considering. It takes a
particular kind of company to innovate, particularly in today's market. It
must be fustrating for them. They were considered top of the line for so
many years. And this upstart Festool comes along and just blows them out of
the water in a catagory not known before.
If I was Lamello, I would be looking at alternatives to the generic biscut.
And like you mentioned, I would target the Domino as the machine to compete
with. If they came up with a machine that could do a little more than the
domino at a good price point, that would a good start.
One problem with trying to compete with Festool is that they don't just make
one tool. They have a whole family of tools. And that family just gets
bigger and bigger. And we all know how hard it is to compete with families.
Soooooo....., even if Lamello did make a good alternative to a biscut
joiner, a lot of folks would end up going with Festool because of their
complete line. After all, when you get to this level, you aren't just
competeing on price anymore. (Besides, they wouldn't have a systainer!)
<dan> wrote in message
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool.
What's wrong with the PC biscuit joiner that you want to get another one?
> Or maybe I just feel bad for spending that much money? Sigh.
If you feel bad about the money you've spent, won't you feel worse spending
more money on another biscuit joiner?
Dave in Houston wrote:
>
> <dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> > "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to
> > buy the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been
> > thinking that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my
> > infrequent needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm
> > thinking about building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still
> > not sure I should have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just
> > feel bad for spending that much money? Sigh.
>
> And here I thought you were going to say the decision was between a
> $700-800 Festool or a $700-800 Lamello.
>
> Dave in Houston
That's why I said weekend hobbyist. Wow! $700 for a biscuit joiner??
--
Upscale wrote:
>
> <dan> wrote in message
> > the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> > that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> > needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> > building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> > have gotten the high-end tool.
>
> What's wrong with the PC biscuit joiner that you want to get another
> one?
No. I did not have one. But went with the PC instead of the Ryobi.
>
> > Or maybe I just feel bad for spending that much money? Sigh.
>
> If you feel bad about the money you've spent, won't you feel worse
> spending more money on another biscuit joiner?
I just wonder if I'd use it enough to justify the cost. Over the years,
my purchases have been worth the extra cost.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I recall those predictions in the 70's also. I think the Toyota
> Tundra had a lot to do with the F150's short falls also.
> Ford did not stop selling cars when the F150 was on top.
>
> All the Detroit woes are from piss poor contracts with the Unions
> through out the last several decades. Toyota is not hurting nearly as
> bad and I keep seeing more and more Toyota trucks and SUV's all the
> time. BTY I just filled my Tundra with the 5.7 L engine, and got
> 15.4 MPG in strictly city driving. ;~)
> Now I will grant you that there were far too many people driving large
> vehicles that they should not have been driving in the first place.
> Watching the news a few nights ago a young guy in his early 30's was
> troubled because his 2002 Explorer cost him $80 every 3 days to fill
> up. Trade value was $3500 which was 1/2 KBB. He owes $8500.
> There is more of a ptoblem with his situation than rising fuel costs.
> 1. He apparently had a 7+ year loan.
> 2. He drives at least 1500 miles per month and probably has 108,000
> miles on the vehicle.
> 3. No one was riding with him to work.
>
> He did not do the math in the first place. Even at $40 to fill up
> every 3 days he was driving too much vehicle for his needs.
That's exactly why I have a Prius and an F250. The Prius is my daily
vehicle, while the F250 is the "go get something big" vehicle. I'll put
two or three tanks of gas in my Prius before I fill up the F250.
The math said the Prius would pay for itself in fuel savings over my 26
mpg Buick in about 10 years at $2.78 a gallon.
Obligatory woodworking content: The F250 contains the material for my
latest project: Replacing the old decking around the pool with
composite. Almost ready to begin installation. :-)
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in news:3Y32k.13895$%Z1.11143
@trnddc05:
*snip*
>
> Bottom line....................
>
> Is ownership of that F250 worth $7,500/year this year and probably
> more next year?
>
> Lew
>
>
>
For what we do with it, yep. It essentially replaced a minivan in lumber
hauling duties, as well as took on additional duties for bigger things like
the 4 wheeler.
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Davoud <[email protected]> wrote in news:060620081136372416%[email protected]:
> Lew Hodgett:
>> > Bottom line....................
>> >
>> > Is ownership of that F250 worth $7,500/year this year and probably
>> > more next year?
>
> Puckdropper:
>> For what we do with it, yep. It essentially replaced a minivan in
>> lumber hauling duties, as well as took on additional duties for
>> bigger things like the 4 wheeler.
>
> Really? I knew in the back of my mind that my Nissan Titan had to go.
> It was a wonderful truck, one of the most comfortable vehicles I've
> ever driven. But it was killing people in Oil War II. Still, I kept
> pushing that to the back of my mind. I "needed it to haul lumber," or
> so I told myself.
>
> One day, while driving it empty (as was usually the case) I was
> following a Home Depot "$19 for one hour" truck. That did it. I traded
> it for a Prius the next day. (Pickups were still in high demand, and
> the Titan was cherry; CarMax gave me a better-than-retail trade-in.)
I try to avoid running empty. With the Prius, I've been able to mostly
succeed doing that half the time. (Finding a load BOTH ways would be
great, but impractical.)
> I just got a load of synthetic decking from a professional supplier
> who will deliver free _if_ you let them pick the day and time of
> delivery for maximum efficiency. Not everyone can do that, of course,
> but I had my load within 36 hours of ordering it.
Not everyone will work that way, and some guys want the same delivery
charge for a plastic bag as they do for a $4000 order.
> There are certainly a lot of people who have a legitimate need for a
> light truck -- farmers, contractors, &c, but that number is _far_
> lower than the number of people who _own_ light trucks.
Agreed. I just don't understand these guys who drive light truck
"refrigerator haulers." I could probably load more stuff in to a Prius
than I could the back of their truck.
> Davoud
>
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote >
>>
>> If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
>> replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were
>> available. That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market
>> "in that price range". One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to the
>> Festool Domino.
>>
> I must be in that kind of mood today.
>
> And if a spaceship were to land carring some exotic tools requiring
> batteries from another planet, Leon would buy it!
The spaceship or the exotic tools? ;~)
Wow is that so wrong about never complaining about quality.
I have been so disappointed with my Delta purchases.
I bought an American made 14" Band saw and it was a POS. No alignment
until I took the pins out.
I bought a Delta Contractor saw. ... The table is so dished.
I bought a Lie Nielsen low angle block plane, and there is a defect in
the blade. At first it looked like a little line.. but as I sharpen it,
I can now see the line was a void in the metal. Now I don't even need a
magnifier or loupe to see that it is a void.
When you pay more, it upsets you that the quality isn't what it should be.
Chef Juke wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT), cruzurr
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 3, 4:17 pm, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I have never heard a person complain about the
>>> high quality tools he owns, but if you hang around
>>> here long enough, you will hear a good bit of whining
>>> about how their new $30 "whatever" is a real POS.
>>>
>>> Never regret buying good... You want to have good
>>> tools at the estate sale don't you ???
>>>
>> Ditto the above which is why I buy Festool etc. I figure if I'm
>> spending the kids inheritance they at least deserve a decent estate
>> sale ;) Well, atleast thats how I deal with my conscience...
>
> Sure, but we all have our budgets...
>
> I might WANT to get a Rolls-Royce (okay, not really, but for arguments
> sake) but may only have the budget for a lexus.
>
> I've definitely checked out the Festools at my local Woodcraft and
> maybe someday I will upgrade that direction.
>
> In the meantime I have managed to put together the start of what I
> hope to be fairly decent powe tool collection for my shop.
>
> 2 porter cable routers (690 and a 7518 Speedmatic mounted to a cast
> iron router table extension on my ridgid table saw)
> A small bosch colt router
> Delta 10" drill press
> And a number of other assorted and sundry power tools which I plan to
> upgrade over time as budget allows.
>
> Right now the mounted speedmatic is the powertool I use most (aside
> from my cordless drills (Makita and Ryobi litium), and it makes
> wonderful quick work of dadoes even in oak. Just got a katana cabinet
> making set of bits and will be seeing how my setup works for panel
> work.
>
> As I expect to make a number of new bookcases and cabinets for my
> house in the near future, the biscuit joiner upgrade will probably be
> my next and from the feedback and what I have experienced with my
> other Porter-Cable tools, I think I will lean in that direction.
>
> Thanks everyone for your input and feedback...
> -Chef Juke
> "EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
> http://www.chefjuke.com
On 02 Jun 2008 19:54:29 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>"rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
>the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
>that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
>needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
>building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
>have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
>that much money? Sigh.
If you wanted to buy a high end biscuit joiner you should have bought
a Lamello.
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Doug Winterburn" wrote:
>>
>>> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
>>> Camray?
>>
>> Why would you f**k up good vehicles for a specialty application?
>
> Fifth wheel hitches are easily removed and re-installed, so a pickup
> isn't f'd up at all. I use mine to haul lumber, help folks move, go to
> da dump, etc. Since it's a diesel, it gets 21mpg highway - 14.5 towing
> a 6 ton fifth wheel. And supposedly since it burns the low sulfer
> diesel and biodiesel mixes, it's more environmentally friendly than many
> gasoline vehicles.
>
>>
>> Isn't that why specialty vehicle rental businesses exist?
>
> Because renting a diesel truck for all of the above uses isn't my choice
> - I'd rather own than rent.
...and besides, I've yet to see diesel trucks with fifth wheel hitches
for rent.
>
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I can see the Domino style fastener becoming more mainstream but look at
the
> screw driver and the cordless drill/driver. People still use hand powered
> screw drivers. SUV's, they will come back just like larger cars have. I
> seen this happen time and again every time gasoline prices go up.
Possibly. I'm old enough that I too have seen larger cars lose and gain
market share repeatedly, but I think it's a little different this time. All
the other times there really hasn't been a technology looming on the horizon
to replace all those big vehicles during a gas crunch. This time there's a
considerable rush to purchase alternatively powered vehicles. The technology
didn't exist those other times, it does now, or it's about to become
mainstream.
The only way I can see some type of real SUV revival is when so many people
go to the other fuel type cars that there's a glut of oil.
On Jun 2, 3:09 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Instead, you can now consider the extra bucks as an investment in the future
> satisfaction of jobs well done ... jobs that will allow you to relax, sit
> back, have a brew, and contemplate what you accomplished at the end of each
> with satisfaction.
>
> Congratulations!
What Swing said.
Plus, you won't ever have to worry if the tool fails as to if you
might have screwed yourself "going on the cheap". A machine doesn't
look like much of an intelligent buy not matter what the reasoning
when it fails early on.
And since they have a tendency to do that when you really need
them.... something to consider. My PC biscuit machine has been
happily chewing out slots for a few years now, and since I put it back
in its blow mold steamer trunk after every session, it still looks and
works like new.
Robert
"Chef Juke" wrote:
> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
Just to stir up the pot a little bit.
I don't do enough biscuit work to justify the expense of a dedicated
biscuit joiner.
Solution:
A router, a slot cutter bit, and a straight bit for "T" joints.
WFM
YMMV
Definitely a lot less money.
Lew
"Davoud" wrote:
> Really? I knew in the back of my mind that my Nissan Titan had to
> go.
> It was a wonderful truck, one of the most comfortable vehicles I've
> ever driven. But it was killing people in Oil War II. Still, I kept
> pushing that to the back of my mind. I "needed it to haul lumber,"
> or
> so I told myself.
There is an old saying that comes to mind:
"If you buy them books and they eat the covers, not much you can do."
Lew
On Jun 4, 2:03=A0pm, "JC" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "dicko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:50:18 -0500, "Leon"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>I can warn you of one problem that most every one experiences. =A0If cut=
ting
> >>slots in the edge or end of a board "do not" use the surface of the benc=
h
> >>as
> >>the reference for the plate joiner if your good surface is not on the up=
> >>side.
>
> > Why? =A0I don't see what the problem would be.
>
> > -dickm
>
> I used to be a Rockwell only user, then I switched (for no particular
> reason) to DeWalt and about a year ago I switched to Porter Cable. I've be=
en
> happiest, so far, with Porter Cable. They just seem to be better and put a=
> little more thoughtfulness into their products. A real thorn in my side wi=
th
> DeWalt is the damn cases they make for their tools. They are the most ill
> conceived pieces of crap I've ever seen. That might be the ultimate reason=
I
> switched. I think it's just like everything else, the eye of the beholder.=
>
> --
> I'm JC and I approved this message.
Thanks JC ..this is just the kind of comparison info I was looking for
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XPo1k.1914$0O1.365@trnddc07...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> cool Would the cycles be the same?
>
> Universal motors are bi-sexual, will operate on either AC/DC thus
> frequency is ignored.
So they're only legal in California and Massachusetts.
Dave in Houston
Davoud wrote:
> Doug Winterburn:
>> You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
>> gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only about
>> $3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another cost saving
>> is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing the restaurant
>> thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in any location to enjoy
>> the area, so even with travel days running about $100 for fuel, the
>> overall cost isn't bad compared to motels & restaurants with the rice
>> burner.
>
> I think that this issue is not about whether one can afford to buy
> petrol. That's too naive and self-centered for me. I think it is about
> what our country can afford; how many sons and husbands we can afford
> to squander in oil wars, for example.
>
> Davoud
>
So now the left has added RVs to their list of things to ban.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IIRC GM and Ford both have Hybrid SUV electric vehicles available for
> purchase.
I know, but they still have some reliance on oil. Wait and see what happens
when better than 25% of personal transport vehicles are chugging along
solely on electricity or hydrogen.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I have the Domino and the PC 557 and PC556. The Domino is superior in all
> respects. IMHO it will make Lamello have to rethink its pricing policy.
I think it's going to be worse than that. Despite it's exorbitant price, I
can envision the Domino killing off most of the biscuit joiner market. It
might take a little while, but it will happen. A slightly different but
mostly similar competition will enter the market and the biscuit joiner will
become a relic that only will only be used by very few.
I'd liken it to a recent news story I saw on SUV's. Because of the gas
crunch, fewer and fewer people are buying them and they're being sold at
well below blue book value. At a certain point there comes a time when you
can't lower the price anymore because it's going to cost you money. Lamello
will see that relatively soon I think.
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:35:10 -0700, Chef Juke <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
>So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
>joiners compare?
>
>The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
>far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
>would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
>
>How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
>
>TIA
>-Chef Juke
>"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
>http://www.chefjuke.com
I like my PC, but have not used the others that you mention so have no
basis for comparison.
I really liked my Delta stationary (most probably don't know it
existed) but I shared one with a colleague and he took it to Jackson,
TN, when he moved. And it was discontinued long ago. It was not good
for long stock, but for average length boards was more accurate and
stable than the portables. To be really good, it needed the clamps to
be both quick adjust and lever quick clamp. Rather than make that
improvement, it was discontinued.
Frank
Apparently the Ford motor company has different view:
"Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May"
The Ford F-150 pickup truck in May was dethroned as Americas favorite
vehicle for the first time in a month since 1991 -- by four sedans.
According to preliminary sales figures released by automakers, Ford
Motor Co. sold 42,973 F-series trucks in May. The Honda Civic and Accord
along with the Toyota Corolla and Camry all topped the F series.
"We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
Leon wrote:
> SUV's, they will come back just like larger cars have. I
> seen this happen time and again every time gasoline prices go up.
>
>
"Peter Huebner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> I wonder if it would be less expensive to go to Germany, find a job, make
>> some money, buy all the Festools I want, and bring'up back home.
>>
>
> Waitaminnit! My wife is over there at the moment.
> Maybe I should ....
> .... nah, not really. I just bought a 30" monitor for a
> new toy. Don't want to rock the boat. ;-D
And of course the voltage would be wrong. ;~(
"dan" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
Au contraire ... you did good!
You've already gotten over the biggest hurdle - you will no longer have the
frustration of attempting to do even the most mundane of tasks with sub par
tools.
Instead, you can now consider the extra bucks as an investment in the future
satisfaction of jobs well done ... jobs that will allow you to relax, sit
back, have a brew, and contemplate what you accomplished at the end of each
with satisfaction.
Congratulations!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
.
In article <[email protected]>, "dan" <>
says...
>
> No. I did not have one. But went with the PC instead of the Ryobi.
>
I think you did well for yourself. The handful of Ryobi
powertools I've had the misfortune to use over the years have
all been utter and total Crap(tm). I only ever bought one
myself, and that was enough of a learning experience to teach
me about 'false economy' and to do better next time.
There may be exceptions, but I haven't struck one yet; nor am I
likely to :-P
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> I wonder if it would be less expensive to go to Germany, find a job, make
> some money, buy all the Festools I want, and bring'up back home.
>
Waitaminnit! My wife is over there at the moment.
Maybe I should ....
.... nah, not really. I just bought a 30" monitor for a
new toy. Don't want to rock the boat. ;-D
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> And of course the voltage would be wrong. ;~(
>
Germany - 220V
New Zealand - 230V
that would work, although I'd have to change the plug.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> The PC can do more than the DeWalt. Bote are top notch machines. FYI and
> IMHO for the price of the Lamello you can get a Festool Domino and it is a
> far superior fastening system.
>
Is the Lamello that expensive? I bought a Makita (very happy
with it, by the way, solid and accurate little machine) and
found out a month later that I could've bought a Lamello at the
same price (~$280 US),albeit on a special, at a different
store. That was years ago, mind.
Festool, here, doesn't even start at twice that money.
-Peter
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <7Vo1k.1915$0O1.329@trnddc07>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Just to stir up the pot a little bit.
>
> I don't do enough biscuit work to justify the expense of a dedicated
> biscuit joiner.
>
> Solution:
>
> A router, a slot cutter bit, and a straight bit for "T" joints.
>
Good for you.
1 - I reckon I'm nowhere near good enough with a router to do
that; plus routers scare the shit out of me.
2 - I use the bisquit joiner a LOT. And once you get really
used to the little beastie and develop procedures, it's
just so damn fast, and safe with it ... put it down
anywhere immediately you finish the cuts without thinkig
about spinning bits. I like that ;-D
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> > Germany - 220V
> > New Zealand - 230V
> >
> > that would work, although I'd have to change the plug.
>
>
> cool Would the cycles be the same?
>
Yes, 50 Hz.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <Ned2k.32$kW2.2@trnddc01>, [email protected]
says...
>
> The way the price of gas is going it may be cheaper to drive the rice
> burner to the locations you wish to visit and stay in a luxury hotel.
>
Hear, hear. I had plans, once upon a time, to get an old
semitrailer or bus and make it into a mobile home to travel in
leisure. No more. The investment in the rig alone will keep me
in hotels for years. Never mind the inconvenience driving some
rig like that, finding parking for it, getting hassled by cops
and council staff and enraged camp-ground owners who feel
you're ripping them off by not staying in their camp ground
(You laugh? Recently really happened in these parts: camp
ground owners demonstrating against the council because camper
van owners were staying in a municipal carpark overnight).
Then you'd probably want to tow a small car with the rig,
so you can actually get around to what you want to look at..
Be much easier to keep the luxury estate I've got and stay in
hotels. The interest on the capital I don't spend will probably
pay for my petrol :-P
LOL -Peter
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
"dayvo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ab764554-67f8-49ef-b15a-b02841c546bd@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> I could really use some tips on getting slots cut correctly the first
> time.
I can warn you of one problem that most every one experiences. If cutting
slots in the edge or end of a board "do not" use the surface of the bench as
the reference for the plate joiner if your good surface is not on the up
side. Use the fence on the tool for reference and be sure that the material
being cut overhangs the end of the work bench so that the plate joiner dies
not accidentally come in contact with bench top.
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote
>
>> I have the Domino and the PC 557 and PC556. The Domino is superior in
>> all respects. IMHO it will make Lamello have to rethink its pricing
>> policy.
> And/or its technology.
I was almost going to add that but regardless of the technology of the Plate
joiner, you still have to use biscuits as the fastener. The Domino's are
superior. Now if Lamello develops something better than the Domino, that
would be a way to go.
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> I worked for many, many years wanting to do the RV thing. Now that I've
> worked and waited and finally realized my wants/hopes in retirement,
> I'll be damned if some enviro freaks will tell me I need to abandon the
> exploring and enjoyment of our country and sit on my not quite yet fat ass.
>
> I use my vehicles in a responsible manner and for the proper purpose - I
> don't drive the tow vehicle to the grocery store nor do I try to tow the
> RV with the high mileage underpowered rice burner.
>
> To answer your question, yes I NEED to explore this land before I croak.
> Before I was capable time wise and financially, I WANTED to do this
> when I geezed out, so now I am.
The way the price of gas is going it may be cheaper to drive the rice
burner to the locations you wish to visit and stay in a luxury hotel.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Leon" wrote >
>>> If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
>>> replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were
>>> available. That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market
>>> "in that price range". One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to the
>>> Festool Domino.
>>>
>> I must be in that kind of mood today.
>>
>> And if a spaceship were to land carring some exotic tools requiring
>> batteries from another planet, Leon would buy it!
>
> The spaceship or the erotic tools? ;~)
>
>
>
What is all this talk about erotic tools? My scoutmaster says I should
not be here...
"Leon" wrote >
>
> If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
> replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were
> available. That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market
> "in that price range". One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to the
> Festool Domino.
>
I must be in that kind of mood today.
And if a spaceship were to land carring some exotic tools requiring
batteries from another planet, Leon would buy it!
Cuz, naturally, it is the next evolutionary step up from the Festool.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:50:18 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I can warn you of one problem that most every one experiences. If cutting
>slots in the edge or end of a board "do not" use the surface of the bench as
>the reference for the plate joiner if your good surface is not on the up
>side.
Why? I don't see what the problem would be.
-dickm
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> From every thing I have read it is a fine piece of machinery that does
>> exactly what it is suppose to do. In contrast many other lesser brands
> make
>> inconsistent thickness cuts.
>
> Maybe so. I'm willing to bet however, that the Domino will make major
> inroads on that market. Lamello brand isn't cheap so if one might be
> willing
> to spend the bucks on one, then it's not that further a reach to buy the
> Domino.
>
>
I have the Domino and the PC 557 and PC556. The Domino is superior in all
respects. IMHO it will make Lamello have to rethink its pricing policy.
"Peter Huebner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> The PC can do more than the DeWalt. Bote are top notch machines. FYI
>> and
>> IMHO for the price of the Lamello you can get a Festool Domino and it is
>> a
>> far superior fastening system.
>>
>
> Is the Lamello that expensive? I bought a Makita (very happy
> with it, by the way, solid and accurate little machine) and
> found out a month later that I could've bought a Lamello at the
> same price (~$280 US),albeit on a special, at a different
> store. That was years ago, mind.
For the bare bones model it is cheap but IIRC several years ago the
"regular" Lamello was north of $600.
"Dave in Houston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
>> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
>> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
>> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
>> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
>> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
>> that much money? Sigh.
>
> And here I thought you were going to say the decision was between a
> $700-800 Festool or a $700-800 Lamello.
>
> Dave in Houston
>
Let me pass along the advice my Dad left me. "Son, always buy the best, and
most expensive, tools you can find. Because if you don't, you'll probably
get a bad product and your wife will buy the most expensive jewelry with the
money you leave behind."
<dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
>
> --
>
If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were available.
That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market "in that price
range". One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to the Festool Domino.
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> To answer your question, yes I NEED to explore this land before I croak.
> Before I was capable time wise and financially, I WANTED to do this when I
> geezed out, so now I am.
Now that's funny. I didn't ask a question and I didn't single you out as the
waster of oil with a big car, yet you still saw the need to defend yourself.
The battle will never end, real or perceived.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5MY1k.11196$%Z1.4510@trnddc05...
> "Doug Winterburn" wrote:
>
>> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
>> Camray?
>
> Why would you f**k up good vehicles for a specialty application?
>
> Isn't that why specialty vehicle rental businesses exist?
No that is why people will continue to buy trucks and SUV's instead of for
the status symbol that they think that they are getting. What's funny are
those status symbols being left in the driveway, screaming look at my big
expensive vehicle that I cannot afford to drive.
GM, Ford, Chrysler had all the data to see this coming. When you have to
offer a 7 to 8 year loan so that the customer can afford to buy the vehicle
this should be an indicator of things to come if the economy only slows up a
little.
Upscale wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think it's going to be worse than that. Despite it's exorbitant price, I
> can envision the Domino killing off most of the biscuit joiner market.
I don't see it. It's always going to be more complicated to make a
domino-style tool than a biscuit joiner, so it's going to be more
expensive. For sheet goods casework the Domino offers little in
additional benefits as compared to biscuits.
For solid wood construction with M&T joints I can certainly see the
Domino replacing smaller mortising machines and horizontal boring machines.
Chris
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pat Barber wrote:
>> Apparently the Ford motor company has different view:
>>
>> "Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May"
>>
>> The Ford F-150 pickup truck in May was dethroned as Americas
>> favorite vehicle for the first time in a month since 1991 -- by four
>> sedans. According to preliminary sales figures released by
>> automakers, Ford Motor Co. sold 42,973 F-series trucks in May. The
>> Honda Civic and Accord along with the Toyota Corolla and Camry all
>> topped the F series.
>>
>> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
>> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
>> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>>
>
> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
> Camray?
Will the F-150 biscuit joiners be on sale now?
Max
I bought the Dewalt about 2 months ago. I've used it twice so far to
cut a dozen slots. It seems to be a solid, well made tool. The
settings make sense and are easy to understand.
The first time I used it was for a face frame. I had some trouble
with the slots being aligned. I ended up measuring them and found
they were off by about 1mm. I did use the same reference face by the
way. I recut the slots with more attention to how I was holding the
tool and managed to get them aligned OK.
The second time I used it was for edge banding around a plywood top.
The edge banding was around 2 1/4" wide. This time I did a lot better
but still had 1 slot that didn't align quite right. After a lot of
measuring it turned out that the slot was fine but the piece had
managed to warp itself overnight.
I probably need some more experience with the tool in order to judge
consistency. I don't have a proper bench yet so I had to adapt a
bit. I didn't use the top handle of the tool. Instead I used my free
hand to hold the fence down onto the work... I also noticed that it's
fairly easy to tilt the tool after you place it on the piece you're
cutting. This causes the blade to cut at an angle and then the
biscuit doesn't align right. Trying different biscuits in the same
slots also seems to make a difference.
I could really use some tips on getting slots cut correctly the first
time.
"Davoud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:060620081136372416%[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett:
>> > Bottom line....................
>> >
>> > Is ownership of that F250 worth $7,500/year this year and probably
>> > more next year?
>
> Puckdropper:
>> For what we do with it, yep. It essentially replaced a minivan in lumber
>> hauling duties, as well as took on additional duties for bigger things
>> like
>> the 4 wheeler.
>
> Really? I knew in the back of my mind that my Nissan Titan had to go.
> It was a wonderful truck, one of the most comfortable vehicles I've
> ever driven. But it was killing people in Oil War II.
Oh good God, how ignorant or naive can you be?
Still, I kept
> pushing that to the back of my mind. I "needed it to haul lumber," or
> so I told myself.
Yeah, hauling lumber for your personal gratification is reason enough excuse
for killing people in Oil War II.
So once you change your mind on that matter the world should too.
On 02 Jun 2008 20:37:22 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>Dave in Houston wrote:
>
>>
>> <dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> > I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>> > "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to
>> > buy the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been
>> > thinking that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my
>> > infrequent needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm
>> > thinking about building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still
>> > not sure I should have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just
>> > feel bad for spending that much money? Sigh.
>>
>> And here I thought you were going to say the decision was between a
>> $700-800 Festool or a $700-800 Lamello.
>>
>> Dave in Houston
>
>That's why I said weekend hobbyist. Wow! $700 for a biscuit joiner??
I bought a PC biscuit joiner. I didn't like it and sold it a couple
years later. For me, the model I had just couldn't keep the fence
parallel to the cutter. Beyond that, it was a well made machine.
Besides, I like mortise & tenon and edge gluing sans anything,
biscuits or otherwise works out fine for me.
On Jun 2, 3:56 pm, "Dave in Houston" wrote: > > have gotten the high-
end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending > > that much money?
Sigh. > $700-800 Festool or a $700-800 Lamello. > > Dave in Houston
I bought one from HFT for $30 or so - or maybe it was from one of thse
traveling tool sale things.
Its basically a 4.5: grinder with a biscuit tool thing out of plastic.
In theory, it does the job. In practice, I find it cuts a wider slot
than the Porter Cable biscuits and can take two of the cheap biscuits
that came with it. Hence, it does not help with the alignment of the
piece as I'd hoped.
Not sure if the blade has too large a kerf or the blade is eccentric
and wobbles. I am looking for a replacement blade with a thinner kerf.
One of these days I may buy a higher-end machine and try it - but for
now (and the past five years or so) I'll make do. (Or doo doo)
Excuse me for drifing on-topic!
If you want a plate jointer to make cabinets then I'd recommend you
try out pocket screws first (if you haven't already). You can build
entire cabinets with pocket screws and they hold better than biscuits
will. Plus no clamping. For kitchen cabinets, put pocket screws on
the outside of the carcass to attach face frames. No pocket holes are
visible after they're installed. Cabinets sides visible at the end of
a run can be covered with a panel. That makes scribing the end
cabinet to the wall a lot easier too.
I'd also rather use headless pins over biscuits for attaching face
frames. A pin driven 35 degrees from the back (side into face) will
virtually be invisible. Just up the PSI a bit over what's recommended
to countersink the pin. If the hole still bothers you then leave
sawdust in it after sanding and you'll never see it.
Biscuits work well for edge joining pieces but I'm finding them less
useful than I thought I would.
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:32:03 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Chef Juke" wrote:
>
>> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>Just to stir up the pot a little bit.
>
>I don't do enough biscuit work to justify the expense of a dedicated
>biscuit joiner.
>
>Solution:
>
>A router, a slot cutter bit, and a straight bit for "T" joints.
>
>WFM
>
>YMMV
>
>Definitely a lot less money.
>
>Lew
>
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT), dayvo <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Excuse me for drifing on-topic!
>
>If you want a plate jointer to make cabinets then I'd recommend you
>try out pocket screws first (if you haven't already). You can build
>entire cabinets with pocket screws and they hold better than biscuits
>will. Plus no clamping. For kitchen cabinets, put pocket screws on
>the outside of the carcass to attach face frames. No pocket holes are
>visible after they're installed. Cabinets sides visible at the end of
>a run can be covered with a panel. That makes scribing the end
>cabinet to the wall a lot easier too.
>
>I'd also rather use headless pins over biscuits for attaching face
>frames. A pin driven 35 degrees from the back (side into face) will
>virtually be invisible. Just up the PSI a bit over what's recommended
>to countersink the pin. If the hole still bothers you then leave
>sawdust in it after sanding and you'll never see it.
>
>Biscuits work well for edge joining pieces but I'm finding them less
>useful than I thought I would.
I actually do have a full Kreg pocket hole jig setup and have used it
for some items so far, but have ended up doing more with
biscuits...not that I might not change that in the future...
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> From every thing I have read it is a fine piece of machinery that does
> exactly what it is suppose to do. In contrast many other lesser brands
make
> inconsistent thickness cuts.
Maybe so. I'm willing to bet however, that the Domino will make major
inroads on that market. Lamello brand isn't cheap so if one might be willing
to spend the bucks on one, then it's not that further a reach to buy the
Domino.
On 06 Jun 2008 18:45:24 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>Agreed. I just don't understand these guys who drive light truck
>"refrigerator haulers." I could probably load more stuff in to a Prius
>than I could the back of their truck.
The "two garbage can sized bed?" Nothin' like a Ford Explorer
SporTrac or H2 SUT to haul a REAL load! <G>
At the bike shop, we outfitted a 2005 Prius with a Yakima roof rack
for a DirecTV installer!
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT), cruzurr
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jun 3, 4:17 pm, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I have never heard a person complain about the
>> high quality tools he owns, but if you hang around
>> here long enough, you will hear a good bit of whining
>> about how their new $30 "whatever" is a real POS.
>>
>> Never regret buying good... You want to have good
>> tools at the estate sale don't you ???
>>
>
>Ditto the above which is why I buy Festool etc. I figure if I'm
>spending the kids inheritance they at least deserve a decent estate
>sale ;) Well, atleast thats how I deal with my conscience...
Sure, but we all have our budgets...
I might WANT to get a Rolls-Royce (okay, not really, but for arguments
sake) but may only have the budget for a lexus.
I've definitely checked out the Festools at my local Woodcraft and
maybe someday I will upgrade that direction.
In the meantime I have managed to put together the start of what I
hope to be fairly decent powe tool collection for my shop.
2 porter cable routers (690 and a 7518 Speedmatic mounted to a cast
iron router table extension on my ridgid table saw)
A small bosch colt router
Delta 10" drill press
And a number of other assorted and sundry power tools which I plan to
upgrade over time as budget allows.
Right now the mounted speedmatic is the powertool I use most (aside
from my cordless drills (Makita and Ryobi litium), and it makes
wonderful quick work of dadoes even in oak. Just got a katana cabinet
making set of bits and will be seeing how my setup works for panel
work.
As I expect to make a number of new bookcases and cabinets for my
house in the near future, the biscuit joiner upgrade will probably be
my next and from the feedback and what I have experienced with my
other Porter-Cable tools, I think I will lean in that direction.
Thanks everyone for your input and feedback...
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
<dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
And here I thought you were going to say the decision was between a
$700-800 Festool or a $700-800 Lamello.
Dave in Houston
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:35:10 -0700, Chef Juke <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
>So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
>joiners compare?
>
>The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
>far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
>would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
I was at the New England show where it was a contest between the DW
and the Makita 3901. The Makita was about $25 cheaper so that was it.
Never had any regrets. A great tool and used a lot.
Barry
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> When I saw my first aticle about biscuit joining I decided to try the
> Freud as a kind of Proof Of Concept.
>
> It worked well enough that I bought a Lamello.
And, what kind of improvement did you see with the Lamello? My first and
only biscuit joiner was and is a Freud. However, in the fifteen or so years
I've had it, I doubt it's been used more than five times, so it's not as if
I need one that would offer greater capability.
On Jun 3, 4:17=A0pm, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have never heard a person complain about the
> high quality tools he owns, but if you hang around
> here long enough, you will hear a good bit of whining
> about how their new $30 "whatever" is a real POS.
>
> Never regret buying good... You want to have good
> tools at the estate sale don't you ???
>
Ditto the above which is why I buy Festool etc. I figure if I'm
spending the kids inheritance they at least deserve a decent estate
sale ;) Well, atleast thats how I deal with my conscience...
"Chef Juke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
> So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
> joiners compare?
>
> The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
> far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
> would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
The PC can do more than the DeWalt. Bote are top notch machines. FYI and
IMHO for the price of the Lamello you can get a Festool Domino and it is a
far superior fastening system.
> How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
For one, the PC will make far smaller slots for face frame applications and
it's fence IMHO is more adaptive.
On Jun 3, 7:10=A0pm, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 02 Jun 2008 19:54:29 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>
> >I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> >"rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> >the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> >that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> >needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> >building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> >have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> >that much money? Sigh.
>
> When I saw my first aticle about biscuit joining I decided to try the
> Freud as a kind of Proof Of Concept.
>
> It worked well enough that I bought a Lamello.
>
> That was almost two decades ago and I still have the Lamello.
>
> They've changed the name to a Top 10, or some such, but that original
> Lamello still works like it did on the day I got it.
>
> There used to be a guy who posted here and his sig was, "buy the best
> and only cry once" - he had the right idea.
I use that line (without attribution...apologies) all the time. One
of my favourites.
JP
hello,
I have a $30 from HF, and of course, it is not perfect and it takes a little
bit more time to setup, but I saved $70 on the next cheapest tool.. way
enough to get more stuff like a good gouge for my lathe....
my hobby time is not worse the extra money of a 'good' tool...
cyrille
<dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
> "rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
> the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
> that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
> needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
> building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
> have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
> that much money? Sigh.
>
> --
>
Davoud wrote:
> Doug Winterburn:
>> You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
>> gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only
>> about $3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another
>> cost saving is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing
>> the restaurant thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in
>> any location to enjoy the area, so even with travel days running
>> about $100 for fuel, the overall cost isn't bad compared to motels
>> &
>> restaurants with the rice burner.
>
> I think that this issue is not about whether one can afford to buy
> petrol. That's too naive and self-centered for me. I think it is
> about
> what our country can afford; how many sons and husbands we can
> afford
> to squander in oil wars, for example.
I am curious--how many "sons and husbands" do you believe have been
"squandered in oil wars"? And how does that compare to the number
"squandered in the War Between the States" or the number "Squandered
defeating the Axis" or the number "squandered due to drunk drivers"?
Don't anybody help him please.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <Ned2k.32$kW2.2@trnddc01>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> The way the price of gas is going it may be cheaper to drive the
>> rice
>> burner to the locations you wish to visit and stay in a luxury
>> hotel.
>>
>
> Hear, hear. I had plans, once upon a time, to get an old
> semitrailer or bus and make it into a mobile home to travel in
> leisure. No more. The investment in the rig alone will keep me
> in hotels for years. Never mind the inconvenience driving some
> rig like that, finding parking for it, getting hassled by cops
> and council staff and enraged camp-ground owners who feel
> you're ripping them off by not staying in their camp ground
> (You laugh? Recently really happened in these parts: camp
> ground owners demonstrating against the council because camper
> van owners were staying in a municipal carpark overnight).
> Then you'd probably want to tow a small car with the rig,
> so you can actually get around to what you want to look at..
>
> Be much easier to keep the luxury estate I've got and stay in
> hotels. The interest on the capital I don't spend will probably
> pay for my petrol :-P
Get a Gold Wing and make an adventure out of it.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
>> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
>> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>>
>
> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
> Camray?
Oh, the never ending battle of need and wants. Anyone can argue their
position easily by pointing out a particular situation and real need. Then
there is reality. Yes some do haul big trailers, yes, some to haul big
equipment, but then yes, some do haul a gallon of milk and take Suzy to
dance lessons and nothing more.
In many counties major construction projects take place every day and don't
use the big trucks like we have. Many families pile into the Smart or Fiat
and head off to vacation. Fact is, most of us don't "want" to do that and
we're willing to pay for the pleasure.
When I go to Europe, I rent a small car because it is economical ($8 to $10
a gallon now) and the rental cost on a large car is very high and I'm not
willing to pay an extra $400 a week. At $4 I'm still driving my V-6 big
car, but at some point I may change my mind.
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:35:10 -0700, Chef Juke <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
>So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
>joiners compare?
>
>The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
>far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
>would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
>
>How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
>
>TIA
>-Chef Juke
>"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
>http://www.chefjuke.com
I just can't justify a $500 biscuit joiner. My Skil biscuit joiner is
not the best, but I might use it 4-5 times a year in favor of
traditional joinery. The dust collection bag is useless and I always
end up shooting sawdust all over the place, but it does cut a nice
accurate slot. The Lamello biscuits are better than PC biscuits, but
either one will do.
On 02 Jun 2008 21:45:36 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>I just wonder if I'd use it enough to justify the cost. Over the years,
>my purchases have been worth the extra cost.
Be in peace, my son..
You say you're a HOBBYIST...
You don't justify costs of a hobby, or no one would ever buy an RV or private
plane..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 2, 7:11 pm, "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote >
>
> > If it makes you feel better, I bought a PC 556 Plate Joiner in 1989 and
> > replaced it with a much better PC557 Type I as soon as they were
> > available. That model was a vast improvement over anything on the market
> > "in that price range". One year ago I upgraded leaps and bounds to the
> > Festool Domino.
>
> I must be in that kind of mood today.
>
> And if a spaceship were to land carring some exotic tools requiring
> batteries from another planet, Leon would buy it!
>
> Cuz, naturally, it is the next evolutionary step up from the Festool.
I'm thinking of attaching a pair of Festool MFK 700 Modular Routers to
an ultra-light air craft.
Waitasec.. I NEED a pair for my business.
I wonder if it would be less expensive to go to Germany, find a job, make
some money, buy all the Festools I want, and bring'up back home.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:31:20 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Chef Juke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>I don't, not with the Festool Domino recently on the market. Take a look at
>their video and then see if you still want/need a high end biscuit joiner ~
>or any biscuit joiner for that matter.
>
>http://www.festoolusa.com/pages.aspx?docid=553
>
Okay, sorry if I wasn't clear...I should have said
"Everyone seems to agree that a higher end joining system is the way
to go." Since the main factor of price was indicated in my note about
the $200 Range and would rule out the Lamello, the Domino etc.
Yes, I still want a biscuit joiner until such time as I can afford
other options.
Oh, and none of this means that I don't think the Domino is an
impressive system....just that it is outside my current budget.
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
Nova wrote:
> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>
>> I worked for many, many years wanting to do the RV thing. Now that
>> I've worked and waited and finally realized my wants/hopes in
>> retirement, I'll be damned if some enviro freaks will tell me I need
>> to abandon the exploring and enjoyment of our country and sit on my
>> not quite yet fat ass.
>>
>> I use my vehicles in a responsible manner and for the proper purpose -
>> I don't drive the tow vehicle to the grocery store nor do I try to tow
>> the RV with the high mileage underpowered rice burner.
>>
>> To answer your question, yes I NEED to explore this land before I
>> croak. Before I was capable time wise and financially, I WANTED to do
>> this when I geezed out, so now I am.
>
> The way the price of gas is going it may be cheaper to drive the rice
> burner to the locations you wish to visit and stay in a luxury hotel.
>
You may be correct with diesel going for a buck a gallon more than
gasoline. However the geezer rates in the national parks are only about
$3/night. Most fancy RV parks go for $20-30/night. Another cost saving
is being able to prepare your meals rather than doing the restaurant
thing. We like to send a minimum of three days in any location to enjoy
the area, so even with travel days running about $100 for fuel, the
overall cost isn't bad compared to motels & restaurants with the rice
burner.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I can see the Domino style fastener becoming more mainstream but look at
> the
>> screw driver and the cordless drill/driver. People still use hand
>> powered
>> screw drivers. SUV's, they will come back just like larger cars have. I
>> seen this happen time and again every time gasoline prices go up.
>
> Possibly. I'm old enough that I too have seen larger cars lose and gain
> market share repeatedly, but I think it's a little different this time.
> All
> the other times there really hasn't been a technology looming on the
> horizon
> to replace all those big vehicles during a gas crunch. This time there's a
> considerable rush to purchase alternatively powered vehicles. The
> technology
> didn't exist those other times, it does now, or it's about to become
> mainstream.
> The only way I can see some type of real SUV revival is when so many
> people
> go to the other fuel type cars that there's a glut of oil.
IIRC GM and Ford both have Hybrid SUV electric vehicles available for
purchase.
Hi all (especially Ed P.)
So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
joiners compare?
The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
TIA
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 23:41:08 +1200, Peter Huebner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Good for you.
>1 - I reckon I'm nowhere near good enough with a router to do
> that; plus routers scare the shit out of me.
That's why you do it in the router table.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Pat Barber wrote:
> Apparently the Ford motor company has different view:
>
> "Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May"
>
> The Ford F-150 pickup truck in May was dethroned as Americas favorite
> vehicle for the first time in a month since 1991 -- by four sedans.
> According to preliminary sales figures released by automakers, Ford
> Motor Co. sold 42,973 F-series trucks in May. The Honda Civic and Accord
> along with the Toyota Corolla and Camry all topped the F series.
>
> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>
Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
Camray?
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:32:03 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Chef Juke" wrote:
>
>> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
>> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
>Just to stir up the pot a little bit.
>
>I don't do enough biscuit work to justify the expense of a dedicated
>biscuit joiner.
>
>Solution:
>
>A router, a slot cutter bit, and a straight bit for "T" joints.
>
>WFM
>
>YMMV
>
>Definitely a lot less money.
>
>Lew
>
Fair enough...but my situation is....I *DO* expect to be doing more
biscuit work in the not too distant future and would like to have a
decent joiner to use for it. Like one of the earlier posters, I have
a Ryobi that has been a bit frustrating in that it does not seem to be
as accurate as I would like (and expected...seems like a repeatable 90
degree slot should be the main function of a BJ) and I have had to
deal with some less than adequate joints because of it.
While I do have routers and a slot cutter bit might be able to create
the slots needed, I don't think it will come near the ease of use of a
decent biscuit joiner.
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
"dicko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:50:18 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I can warn you of one problem that most every one experiences. If cutting
>>slots in the edge or end of a board "do not" use the surface of the bench
>>as
>>the reference for the plate joiner if your good surface is not on the up
>>side.
>
> Why? I don't see what the problem would be.
>
> -dickm
>
Typically you mark the good side so that you can reference everything with
out having to think the reverse. Very commonly solid wood is attached to
the edge of plywood and unless both are perfectly the same thickness you can
throw off the height location of the slot being cut. If one board is
thicker than the other and the good side is up your slots will be off the
same distance as the difference in thicknesses. If you let the fence rest
on the material rather than having the plate joiner base setting on the
bench the upper surfaces are correctly referenced.
Add to that if you are using the bench surface to reference the plate joiner
to the material, debris can often raise the plate joiner up and throw off
the slot locations.
Add to that if the material is slightly warped and bows and you use the
bench surface to reference the plate joiner it will cut the slot lower down
from the top surface of the material. The plate joiner should always be
referenced off of its fence for consistent cuts.
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
> I am not going to guess at what Lamello is considering. It takes a
> particular kind of company to innovate, particularly in today's market.
> It must be fustrating for them. They were considered top of the line for
> so many years. And this upstart Festool comes along and just blows them
> out of the water in a catagory not known before.
Festool has been around since 1925, Lamello 1944, I think Festool is due.
;~)
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Apparently the Ford motor company has different view:
>
> "Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May"
>
> The Ford F-150 pickup truck in May was dethroned as Americas favorite
> vehicle for the first time in a month since 1991 -- by four sedans.
> According to preliminary sales figures released by automakers, Ford Motor
> Co. sold 42,973 F-series trucks in May. The Honda Civic and Accord along
> with the Toyota Corolla and Camry all topped the F series.
>
> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>
I recall those predictions in the 70's also. I think the Toyota Tundra had
a lot to do with the F150's short falls also.
Ford did not stop selling cars when the F150 was on top.
All the Detroit woes are from piss poor contracts with the Unions through
out the last several decades. Toyota is not hurting nearly as bad and I
keep seeing more and more Toyota trucks and SUV's all the time. BTY I just
filled my Tundra with the 5.7 L engine, and got 15.4 MPG in strictly city
driving. ;~)
Now I will grant you that there were far too many people driving large
vehicles that they should not have been driving in the first place.
Watching the news a few nights ago a young guy in his early 30's was
troubled because his 2002 Explorer cost him $80 every 3 days to fill up.
Trade value was $3500 which was 1/2 KBB. He owes $8500.
There is more of a ptoblem with his situation than rising fuel costs.
1. He apparently had a 7+ year loan.
2. He drives at least 1500 miles per month and probably has 108,000 miles
on the vehicle.
3. No one was riding with him to work.
He did not do the math in the first place. Even at $40 to fill up every 3
days he was driving too much vehicle for his needs.
> Leon wrote:
>
>> SUV's, they will come back just like larger cars have. I seen this
>> happen time and again every time gasoline prices go up.
On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:24:59 -0700, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You don't justify costs of a hobby, or no one would ever buy an RV or private
>plane..
Someone gets it... <G>
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Chef Juke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> Fair enough...but my situation is....I *DO* expect to be doing more
> biscuit work in the not too distant future and would like to have a
> decent joiner to use for it. Like one of the earlier posters, I have
> a Ryobi that has been a bit frustrating in that it does not seem to be
> as accurate as I would like (and expected...seems like a repeatable 90
> degree slot should be the main function of a BJ) and I have had to
> deal with some less than adequate joints because of it.
>
> While I do have routers and a slot cutter bit might be able to create
> the slots needed, I don't think it will come near the ease of use of a
> decent biscuit joiner.
> -Chef Juke
> "EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
> http://www.chefjuke.com
Consider also that to do face cuts in the middle of a wide panel you will
need a Plate Joiner over the router and slot cutter bit. Think shelves
being attached to the sides of a cabinet.
On 07 Jun 2008 02:27:56 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> I hear ya'!
>>
>> What did LN say about your blade?
>
>Exactly, as my grandmother says, complaining works! Many manufacturing
>companies don't want to lose you as a customer, so if you call to complain
>they'll try to make it right.
ESPECIALLY Lie Nielsen!
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
>>> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
>>> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>>>
>> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
>> Camray?
>
> Oh, the never ending battle of need and wants. Anyone can argue their
> position easily by pointing out a particular situation and real need. Then
> there is reality. Yes some do haul big trailers, yes, some to haul big
> equipment, but then yes, some do haul a gallon of milk and take Suzy to
> dance lessons and nothing more.
>
> In many counties major construction projects take place every day and don't
> use the big trucks like we have. Many families pile into the Smart or Fiat
> and head off to vacation. Fact is, most of us don't "want" to do that and
> we're willing to pay for the pleasure.
>
> When I go to Europe, I rent a small car because it is economical ($8 to $10
> a gallon now) and the rental cost on a large car is very high and I'm not
> willing to pay an extra $400 a week. At $4 I'm still driving my V-6 big
> car, but at some point I may change my mind.
>
>
I worked for many, many years wanting to do the RV thing. Now that I've
worked and waited and finally realized my wants/hopes in retirement,
I'll be damned if some enviro freaks will tell me I need to abandon the
exploring and enjoyment of our country and sit on my not quite yet fat ass.
I use my vehicles in a responsible manner and for the proper purpose - I
don't drive the tow vehicle to the grocery store nor do I try to tow the
RV with the high mileage underpowered rice burner.
To answer your question, yes I NEED to explore this land before I croak.
Before I was capable time wise and financially, I WANTED to do this
when I geezed out, so now I am.
On 02 Jun 2008 19:54:29 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>I'm not a furniture builder, but a weekend hobbyist that does mostly
>"rough" woodworking. I have a tendency though when I buy tools to buy
>the best. I just bought a $225 PC biscuit joiner. I've been thinking
>that maybe the Ryobi $100 biscuit joiner would suit my infrequent
>needs. I do build some cabinets and in the future I'm thinking about
>building my kitchen cabinents, but then I'm still not sure I should
>have gotten the high-end tool. Or maybe I just feel bad for spending
>that much money? Sigh.
When I saw my first aticle about biscuit joining I decided to try the
Freud as a kind of Proof Of Concept.
It worked well enough that I bought a Lamello.
That was almost two decades ago and I still have the Lamello.
They've changed the name to a Top 10, or some such, but that original
Lamello still works like it did on the day I got it.
There used to be a guy who posted here and his sig was, "buy the best
and only cry once" - he had the right idea.
Regards,
Tom
Thos.J.Watson - Cabinetmaker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:51:58 -0600, Chris Friesen
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Phisherman wrote:
>> The dust collection bag is useless and I always
>> end up shooting sawdust all over the place, but it does cut a nice
>> accurate slot.
>
>Hook it up to a shop vac. Works like a charm with my PC joiner.
>
>Chris
I do the same with my DeWalt and a $20 Craftsman "Auto Switch"
It all works like a charm, and the hose and switch are also handy with
sanders, the Kreg Jig, etc...
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pat Barber wrote:
>> Apparently the Ford motor company has different view:
>>
>> "Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May"
>>
>> The Ford F-150 pickup truck in May was dethroned as Americas favorite
>> vehicle for the first time in a month since 1991 -- by four sedans.
>> According to preliminary sales figures released by automakers, Ford Motor
>> Co. sold 42,973 F-series trucks in May. The Honda Civic and Accord along
>> with the Toyota Corolla and Camry all topped the F series.
>>
>> "We believe that much of this reduction in full-size truck demand is
>> structural, with many buyers downgrading to smaller vehicles who will
>> likely not come back," Johnson said in a note to investors.
>>
>
> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla or
> Camray?
Exactly.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Doug Winterburn" wrote:
>
>> Where do I mount the fifth wheel hitch on a Civic, Accord, Corolla
>> or Camray?
>
> Why would you f**k up good vehicles for a specialty application?
Fifth wheel hitches are easily removed and re-installed, so a pickup
isn't f'd up at all. I use mine to haul lumber, help folks move, go to
da dump, etc. Since it's a diesel, it gets 21mpg highway - 14.5 towing
a 6 ton fifth wheel. And supposedly since it burns the low sulfer
diesel and biodiesel mixes, it's more environmentally friendly than many
gasoline vehicles.
>
> Isn't that why specialty vehicle rental businesses exist?
Because renting a diesel truck for all of the above uses isn't my choice
- I'd rather own than rent.
>
> Lew
>
>
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:46:21 -0400, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
wrote:
>
>I bought a Lie Nielsen low angle block plane, and there is a defect in
>the blade. At first it looked like a little line.. but as I sharpen it,
>I can now see the line was a void in the metal. Now I don't even need a
>magnifier or loupe to see that it is a void.
>
>When you pay more, it upsets you that the quality isn't what it should be.
I hear ya'!
What did LN say about your blade?
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Peter Huebner wrote:
> I think you did well for yourself. The handful of Ryobi
> powertools I've had the misfortune to use over the years have
> all been utter and total Crap(tm).
I have a Ryobi variable speed drill that I bought mainly as a cheap
second drill for countersinking. It does that job just fine.
Occasionally the bubble level on the back end comes in handy.
For $50, it's done its duty.
Chris
"Peter Huebner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> And of course the voltage would be wrong. ;~(
>>
>
> Germany - 220V
> New Zealand - 230V
>
> that would work, although I'd have to change the plug.
cool Would the cycles be the same?
Chef Juke wrote:
> Hi all (especially Ed P.)
>
> So, everyone (except one Harbor Fraught fan) seems to agree that
> getting a high-end biscuit joiner is the way to go.
>
> So now, does anybody have some hands-on info on how the better biscuit
> joiners compare?
>
> The Porter Cable, and DeWalt are what I'm looking at so
> far...anyothers in that price range ($200 - yeah, if I had the $$ I
> would be looking a the Lamello) I should consider?
>
> How do the PC and DeWalt compare in performance and features?
>
> TIA
> -Chef Juke
> "EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
> http://www.chefjuke.com
The Porter Cable 557 comes with a 4" blade for standard biscuits and a
2" blade for the smaller face frame biscuits. The DeWalt DW682 has the
4" blade only.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> IIRC GM and Ford both have Hybrid SUV electric vehicles available for
>> purchase.
>
> I know, but they still have some reliance on oil. Wait and see what
> happens
> when better than 25% of personal transport vehicles are chugging along
> solely on electricity or hydrogen.
>
>
Yeah... Do you think that the SUV would not ever be equipped with the same
setup? If the SUV is a fad you are probably right but if people want SUV's
the natural evolution of the SUV would be to go electric also.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have the Domino and the PC 557 and PC556. The Domino is superior in
>> all
>> respects. IMHO it will make Lamello have to rethink its pricing policy.
>
> I think it's going to be worse than that. Despite it's exorbitant price, I
> can envision the Domino killing off most of the biscuit joiner market. It
> might take a little while, but it will happen. A slightly different but
> mostly similar competition will enter the market and the biscuit joiner
> will
> become a relic that only will only be used by very few.
>
> I'd liken it to a recent news story I saw on SUV's. Because of the gas
> crunch, fewer and fewer people are buying them and they're being sold at
> well below blue book value. At a certain point there comes a time when you
> can't lower the price anymore because it's going to cost you money.
> Lamello
> will see that relatively soon I think.
>
>
I can see the Domino style fastener becoming more mainstream but look at the
screw driver and the cordless drill/driver. People still use hand powered
screw drivers. SUV's, they will come back just like larger cars have. I
seen this happen time and again every time gasoline prices go up.