Remember the pawn shop/ebay thread, well this morning one of our number
(I can't say more without giving the game away) spotted a truck part
that looked wrong in the photo, looked a bit harder and compared details
with a reported stolen truck from 150 miles away, yep some bastard tried
to paintshop the details out, the authorities have been informed. But
not ebay yet so they don't warn the son of a bitch!
Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity. Misuse of
the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one
thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals
to dispose of their loot is quite another.
Badger responds:
>>not blaming Ebay, they can't help whos selling what, its the not
knowing the who and the history of the what thats the problem. <<
Yup. And every time you go to a flea market or yard sale, get the
provenance of every item you buy.
Ebay is better policed than most used merchandise bazaars around the
country, including gun shows, car shows and so on.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:08:12 +0000, njf>badger< <njf>badger<@soton.ac.uk> wrote:
> Remember the pawn shop/ebay thread, well this morning one of our number
> (I can't say more without giving the game away) spotted a truck part
> that looked wrong in the photo, looked a bit harder and compared details
> with a reported stolen truck from 150 miles away, yep some bastard tried
> to paintshop the details out, the authorities have been informed. But
> not ebay yet so they don't warn the son of a bitch!
So far, so good.
> Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:09:20 -0500, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
>>
>> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
>> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
>
> Try thinking a little more clearly. He's not blaming Ebay, he's suggesting
> that there's greater possibility of something being stolen because of the
> anonymity of the Ebay process. Not the same thing at all of blaming them.
Saying you won't use eBay because of the action of a criminal, is
depriving them of business for something that isn't in their
control. Punishing party A for party B's action, is irrational.
eBay is very good about terminating fraudulent auctions (and the
people posting them). Fix the system.
On 8 Mar 2005 08:31:18 -0800, butch <[email protected]> wrote:
> If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
> dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
> eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity.
They also drive on our roads, use telephones, and the US Mail. All of
these are also used vastly more for legitimate purposes.
> Misuse of
> the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one
> thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals
> to dispose of their loot is quite another.
So, you _are_ blaming eBay. Why not, you know, blame the criminal?
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:39:43 GMT, patrick conroy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
>> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
>
> When Phones are Outlawed, only outlaws...
Exactly, it's the same kind of thinking.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:13:54 GMT, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Dave Hinz wrote:
>
>>>Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
>>
>> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
>> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
>
> No, not blaming Ebay, they can't help whos selling what, its the not
> knowing the who and the history of the what thats the problem.
There's this really cool feature called "feedback". Next to any
eBay user's ID, is a number. If you click on that, you can see
the number of positive vs. negative comments that the people they've
dealt with have left.
If there are negatives, read _that_ person's feedback, you can usually
see if it's just some schmuck whose opinion doesn't matter, or if it's
a legitimate problem. Too many legitimate problems, bid elsewhere.
The tools are there to be used.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:32:53 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Hall wrote:
> ...
>> How would that help? I would assume that a theif with no cost basis in
>> what he is selling would give a good price on good quality stuff (that
>> he stole) and would get good feedback.
>
> Perhaps, perhaps not...I tend to think that most folks who would stoop
> to selling stolen goods won't be honor-bound when dealing on eBay,
> either. Not a given, certainly, but as the old saw says about apples
> and trees...
That's what I'm saying, yes.
> But, indeed, it would be difficult to tell for certain that anyone is
> using eBay to fence stolen goods--usually, though, in the auctions I've
> looked at it has either been pretty clear it was personal items or
> resale of liquidation auction items, etc., or various levels of
> professional traders. I tend to stay away from the latter as many have
> onerous policies. There are, I'm sure a lot who are legitimate, but if
> they're pro's I've rarely found that the deals were worth the hassle.
In maybe 6-8 years of buying stuff on eBay, I've had exactly _one_ problem.
I don't buy from people with bad feedback from good people. I also don't
buy the sort of thing that seems likely to be stolen, I suppose.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:39:43 GMT, "patrick conroy" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
>> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
>
>When Phones are Outlawed, only outlaws...
>
Looking forward to the day.
I hate the phone.
I always use the excuse I'm in the shop and can't hear it.
I let the answering service answer both my regular phone and cell.
If it's important they will leave a message or email me.
mp wrote:
>
> > How do you propose that eBay assure everyone that everything listed is
> > from 100% honest seller?
>
> Have sellers pledge to the "Scouts Honour" before posting an item for sale.
Oh yeah, that'll surely stop a thief from his behavior... :(
They already have effectively done that by the conditions of the signup
contract and blown it off...
Dave Hall wrote:
...
> How would that help? I would assume that a theif with no cost basis in
> what he is selling would give a good price on good quality stuff (that
> he stole) and would get good feedback.
Perhaps, perhaps not...I tend to think that most folks who would stoop
to selling stolen goods won't be honor-bound when dealing on eBay,
either. Not a given, certainly, but as the old saw says about apples
and trees...
But, indeed, it would be difficult to tell for certain that anyone is
using eBay to fence stolen goods--usually, though, in the auctions I've
looked at it has either been pretty clear it was personal items or
resale of liquidation auction items, etc., or various levels of
professional traders. I tend to stay away from the latter as many have
onerous policies. There are, I'm sure a lot who are legitimate, but if
they're pro's I've rarely found that the deals were worth the hassle.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:59:54 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
>> dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
As well as the follow ups pointing out eBay will respond aggressively
if someone points out an illegal offering.
Ya wanna blame them for people offering $20,000 for a french fry that
looks sort of like Lincoln's profile? In fact they closed that one,
then put it back up again. Where's the crime!?
Find a line to draw, in there :-)
James
[email protected]
Dave Hinz wrote:
>>Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
>
> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
No, not blaming Ebay, they can't help whos selling what, its the not
knowing the who and the history of the what thats the problem.
Badger.
"butch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
> dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
> eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity. Misuse of
> the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one
> thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals
> to dispose of their loot is quite another.
>
If they take out ads in the local paper, do you shut down the newspapers?
How do you propose that eBay assure everyone that everything listed is from
100% honest seller? I'm sure they don't want to be tarnished and would
co-operate with the authorities, but it is no simple task to eliminate the
potential problem.
On 9 Mar 2005 15:44:58 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:32:53 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Dave Hall wrote:
>> ...
>>> How would that help? I would assume that a theif with no cost basis in
>>> what he is selling would give a good price on good quality stuff (that
>>> he stole) and would get good feedback.
>>
>> Perhaps, perhaps not...I tend to think that most folks who would stoop
>> to selling stolen goods won't be honor-bound when dealing on eBay,
>> either. Not a given, certainly, but as the old saw says about apples
>> and trees...
>
>That's what I'm saying, yes.
>
>
>> But, indeed, it would be difficult to tell for certain that anyone is
>> using eBay to fence stolen goods--usually, though, in the auctions I've
>> looked at it has either been pretty clear it was personal items or
>> resale of liquidation auction items, etc., or various levels of
>> professional traders. I tend to stay away from the latter as many have
>> onerous policies. There are, I'm sure a lot who are legitimate, but if
>> they're pro's I've rarely found that the deals were worth the hassle.
>
>In maybe 6-8 years of buying stuff on eBay, I've had exactly _one_ problem.
>I don't buy from people with bad feedback from good people. I also don't
>buy the sort of thing that seems likely to be stolen, I suppose.
You may have only had one problem, but that does not mean that you
have not purchased stolen goods. Unless the stuff comes with a title
how would you know (hell, even titles can be forged). I have purchased
brand new items in retail packaging from ebay. There is no way that I
can know if the guy is a legitimate liquidator, bought a lot at an
auction, bought the contents of a storage unit or simply stole some
boxes from the back of a truck. I certainly try to deal with up front
people, but I have found that the unscrupulous put on a better "honest
face" than many saintly honest people do and people selling stolen
goods which have a 100% profit factor often give better "customer
service" than people making 5% on the sale can afford to give. It's a
crap shoot. The best you can do is try to deal honestly and try to
give deals the sniff test.
Dave Hall
On 8 Mar 2005 22:48:02 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:13:54 GMT, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dave Hinz wrote:
>>
>>>>Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
>>>
>>> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
>>> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
>>
>> No, not blaming Ebay, they can't help whos selling what, its the not
>> knowing the who and the history of the what thats the problem.
>
>There's this really cool feature called "feedback". Next to any
>eBay user's ID, is a number. If you click on that, you can see
>the number of positive vs. negative comments that the people they've
>dealt with have left.
>
>If there are negatives, read _that_ person's feedback, you can usually
>see if it's just some schmuck whose opinion doesn't matter, or if it's
>a legitimate problem. Too many legitimate problems, bid elsewhere.
>
>The tools are there to be used.
How would that help? I would assume that a theif with no cost basis in
what he is selling would give a good price on good quality stuff (that
he stole) and would get good feedback.
Dave Hall
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
When Phones are Outlawed, only outlaws...
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
>
> So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame
> AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
Try thinking a little more clearly. He's not blaming Ebay, he's suggesting
that there's greater possibility of something being stolen because of the
anonymity of the Ebay process. Not the same thing at all of blaming them.
On 8 Mar 2005 08:31:18 -0800, "butch" <[email protected]> wrote:
>If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
>dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
>eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity. Misuse of
>the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one
>thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals
>to dispose of their loot is quite another.
better outlaw money then...
On 8 Mar 2005 17:11:43 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8 Mar 2005 08:31:18 -0800, butch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to
>> dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to
>> eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity.
>
>They also drive on our roads, use telephones, and the US Mail. All of
>these are also used vastly more for legitimate purposes.
>
>> Misuse of
>> the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one
>> thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals
>> to dispose of their loot is quite another.
>
>So, you _are_ blaming eBay. Why not, you know, blame the criminal?
>
I have been offered stolen stuff at least 6 times in my life, every time was
late at night in a pub.
I like bars, so I hope you aren't suggesting we close them because they happen
to be one of the foremost places to purchase stolen stuff.
Drugs as well BTW.