Went to see my Woodcraft dealer yesterday to get his counsel on the Domino =
I bought last week. Bought the Festool hose ($75)to attach to my shop vac =
and another cutter ($37), which brings my investment to $562. He agrees th=
at this was a great deal as it came with all of the alignment accessories a=
nd about 150 tenons of various sizes.
Fired it up for the first time a few minutes ago and zapped a few mortises =
in some scrap. SWEET. I just need to get used to looking at the world in m=
illimeters rather than inches.
Larry
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> Actually it is 540 mm.
>>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> No fair using your slide rule!
> ------------------------------------------
> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>
> Lew
If you enter the correct data. :-).
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> Oops. Off the tip of my head..... 535.78130000000001 NOT!
> ---------------------------------------
> Actually it is 540 mm.
>
> Lew
Actually it is 535.7813 mm
540 mm = 21.25984 "
On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>
>> Approximately
>>
>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>
> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
> factor for gouges).
Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/7/2013 2:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> And to further support accuracy beyond 1/32", the below link goes to my
>> desk top which I glued up today. Length 93.5" Height 54" Depth 14.5".
>> 8 dado's in the plywood panels and 12 dado/groves in the front and back
>> face frames, no butt joints.
>>
>> Back and front face frames are not identical, back rails are different
>> length as are the center stiles from the front rails. Back center
>> stiles are also wider than the front center stiles.
>>
>> Nothing was cut to fit, all was cut exactly to reflect the plans. Had
>> any cuts been off this would non have locked together as it did. Whew!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8536729515/lightbox/
>
> Damn ... and I was looking forward to coming over and helping you pound on it to fit!! ;)
>
> Looking good!
>
> Had my own "Whew" just a minute ago ... all frame mortises & tenons cut,
> aprons and rails done, and dry fit:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852694851810598658
>
> Routing mortises accurately in curved parts is pucker time, indeed.
No kidding but looking really good!
>
> I still have the curved back rests slats left ... onward.
O'boy,
On 3/7/2013 1:25 PM, Mike M wrote:
> I had to look at that drawing a bit to grasp how much that 1/16"
> caused the measurement to change. The sketch up is definitely
> something I'm slowly learning.
Being an ex-artilleryman I'm not a stranger to angular deviation, but
I was struck by the magnitude of this particular situation myself.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 07:59:45 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/27/2013 5:54 PM, Mike M wrote:
>> ...I don't understand why people argue about trying for as
>> much accuracy as you can get. My experience has been that the more
>> attention to the detail saves a lot of problems in finishing a
>> project. You have a system that works well for you. I can't claim to
>> always work to that accuracy but I applaud you for holding yourself to
>> your standard.
>
>I do it simply because my work requires it.
>
>Here's an absolute perfect example of how easy it is to be bit in the
>butt by 1/16" if you don't:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5852591840854584354
>
>Rotating, a part 1/16" over 2 3/8" (instead of making a small, <1.4
>degree, compound angle, cut in the apron) causes an almost 3/4" error in
>leg offset ... totally unacceptable, and grievous, for both intended
>use, and implementation of design.
>
>Imagine, what it would do to your reputation and bottom line, to give a
>client, who paid you good money for a faithful reproduction, the chair
>on the right, and then have her put it next to an existing chair in her
>dining room and expect them to visually line up for her next dinner party.
>
>The tendency to ignore precise measuring, and angle inconsistencies, no
>matter how convenient to do so, is a fools game that will very often
>result in unintended consequences costing time, money and materials.
>
>(Also points out the wisdom of making a detailed, scale model of your
>project before you ever go out to the shop so these types of issues can
>be sussed out on paper, instead of on materials ... IOW, enter the
>obligatory Sketchup tout, once again <G>)
>
>And no ... I did not make this mistake, although I did wonder just what
>the consequences/impact of eight fewer compound angle mortise and
>floating tenon joints would have on the project ... thanks to Sketchup,
>that was easier to determine than would otherwise been possible ... just
>thought I'd share it.) :)
>
>Measure twice, carefully and with precision ... then repeat as often as
>necessary. ;)
I had to look at that drawing a bit to grasp how much that 1/16"
caused the measurement to change. The sketch up is definitely
something I'm slowly learning.
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 3/8/2013 8:39 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 3/7/2013 1:25 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had to look at that drawing a bit to grasp how much that 1/16"
>>>> caused the measurement to change. The sketch up is definitely
>>>> something I'm slowly learning.
>>>
>>> Being an ex-artilleryman I'm not a stranger to angular deviation,
>>> but I was struck by the magnitude of this particular situation
>>> myself.
>>
>> Likewise (although not with the artillery background), I am familar
>> with the fact that the deviations will result in greater deviations
>> over distance, but I too was surprised at what such a seeminly small
>> tweak resulted in with your chair.
>
> It makes sense when you think about it. Visualize this:
>
> Rotate a vertical line, 40 1/4" high (which is roughly the height of
> the center point of the curved chair leg), 1.4 degrees around a point
> 16 13/16" (the height of the top of a side apron) from the bottom of
> the line.
>
> That rotation moves the top and bottom points of the line just shy of
> 1" away from each other on the vertical plane (13/32" on the bottom,
> and 19/32" on the top +/-).
>
> Being aware of that is what got me to checking ... (I was really
> looking for a way around routing mortises on the edge a compound
> angled apron).
>
> Although the Multi-Router makes that operation a piece of cake, the
> fact of mirror images and references edges with grain direction being
> involved, made mistakes inevitable ... and this job has a razor thin
> margin for material costs.
>
> Another option would have been to angle the face of the leg at the
> mating point appropriately, but that causes just as many consequences
> that needed to be guarded against.
>
> Oh well, all's well that ends well ... :)
Yes, that is also the way leverage works. I think you're making great
reproductions now (not like the watches on the streets of NY at all!!
<smirk>). I even understand the angling on the face of the leg ...
Great work, annd great explanations, as usual!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On 3/8/2013 8:39 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/7/2013 1:25 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>
>>> I had to look at that drawing a bit to grasp how much that 1/16"
>>> caused the measurement to change. The sketch up is definitely
>>> something I'm slowly learning.
>>
>> Being an ex-artilleryman I'm not a stranger to angular deviation, but
>> I was struck by the magnitude of this particular situation myself.
>
> Likewise (although not with the artillery background), I am familar with the
> fact that the deviations will result in greater deviations over distance,
> but I too was surprised at what such a seeminly small tweak resulted in with
> your chair.
It makes sense when you think about it. Visualize this:
Rotate a vertical line, 40 1/4" high (which is roughly the height of the
center point of the curved chair leg), 1.4 degrees around a point 16
13/16" (the height of the top of a side apron) from the bottom of the line.
That rotation moves the top and bottom points of the line just shy of 1"
away from each other on the vertical plane (13/32" on the bottom, and
19/32" on the top +/-).
Being aware of that is what got me to checking ... (I was really looking
for a way around routing mortises on the edge a compound angled apron).
Although the Multi-Router makes that operation a piece of cake, the fact
of mirror images and references edges with grain direction being
involved, made mistakes inevitable ... and this job has a razor thin
margin for material costs.
Another option would have been to angle the face of the leg at the
mating point appropriately, but that causes just as many consequences
that needed to be guarded against.
Oh well, all's well that ends well ... :)
--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Swingman wrote:
> On 3/7/2013 1:25 PM, Mike M wrote:
>
>> I had to look at that drawing a bit to grasp how much that 1/16"
>> caused the measurement to change. The sketch up is definitely
>> something I'm slowly learning.
>
> Being an ex-artilleryman I'm not a stranger to angular deviation, but
> I was struck by the magnitude of this particular situation myself.
Likewise (although not with the artillery background), I am familar with the
fact that the deviations will result in greater deviations over distance,
but I too was surprised at what such a seeminly small tweak resulted in with
your chair.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>
> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
---------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>Less than 25.6 mm.
-------------------------------------------------
"Larry W" wrote:
> I calculate it to be quite a bit more than that.
---------------------------------------------------
Opps!
Now I know why I have cataract surgery scheduled.
Lew
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>
> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>
About half a meter...
21 * 2 = 42
21 * .5 = 11.5, so 53.5 cm
Good enough for a "Quick and in your head" measurement.
I'll never make any cuts off a "Quick and in your head" conversion. All
they're good for is magnitude checking.
Another useful magnitude check is meters to feet. Figure 1 meter is
approximately 1 yard, and every 3 meters adds another foot. So multiply
by 3, divide by 3 and add. By this method 25 m ~= 83.3 (~= means
approximately equal), in reality it's 82.021'
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Actually it is 540 mm.
----------------------------------------
> "Bill" wrote:
>
> No fair using your slide rule!
------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
"Leon" wrote:
> If you enter the correct data.
-----------------------------------------------
21-3/32" = 21.09375"
1" = 25.6 mm
21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
Nuf said.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in news:512c0d68$0$63580
[email protected]:
> Are you using 1" = 25.6 mm?
>
> Lew
I hope not. 1" = 25.4 mm.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
[email protected] (Edward A. Falk) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry W <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>Here on the East coast there are still 25.4 millimeters per inch. When
>>did they change it in California?
>
> After the Loma Prieta quake. They didn't want to re-survey the
> 440 Freeway, so they came up with this compromise.
>
Well, the meter was originally based on some measurement between the North
pole and equator at some specific time. It's entirely possible that using
that old method it could have grown. Hasn't been that way for over a
century, but maybe Lew still remembers when it was. *g*
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
> I just need to get used to looking at the world in millimeters rather than inches.
That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
Congratulations on the Domino, and the excellent deal. The ability to
_easily_ do floating tenon M&T joinery will open up a new world of
possibilities for your woodworking endeavors.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Actually it is 540 mm.
> ----------------------------------------
>> "Bill" wrote:
>>
>> No fair using your slide rule!
> ------------------------------------------
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> If you enter the correct data.
> -----------------------------------------------
> 21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>
> 1" = 25.6 mm
>
> 21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>
> Nuf said.
>
> Lew
But uhhhh 1" = 25.4 mm
As previously mentioned, you have to use the correct data to get the
correct answer.
So for the 3rd time,
21-3/32" = 21.09375" = 535.7813 mm
21.09375 * 24.4 mm = 535.7813 mm
On 2/26/2013 8:33 AM, Leon wrote:
> 21.09375 * 24.4 mm = 535.7813 mm
Say what! LOL
You sound like me trying to get CutList to print a Layout of "Rough
Lumber" last week. <g,d&r>
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/26/2013 9:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/26/2013 8:33 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> 21.09375 * 24.4 mm = 535.7813 mm
>
> Say what! LOL
>
> You sound like me trying to get CutList to print a Layout of "Rough
> Lumber" last week. <g,d&r>
>
SHIT!
21.09375 * """ 25.4 """ = 535.7813 I'm going to blame the iPad keyboard
;~)
At least when I am proven wrong I'll readily admit it.
Don't you just hate it when Todd so eloquently explains something and
all you can say to yourself is Doh!
FWIW I use dimensional lumber for everything except panels.
On 2/25/2013 1:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>>
>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>
>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Less than 25.6 mm.
Now, without doing anything else, and u$ing your above dimension, go cut
24 of tho$e out of 8/4, highly figured Q$WO, without verifying ...
That's what I mean ... ;)
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/26/2013 12:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 2/26/2013 10:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> It's a simple means to check that the "227mm" is in the approximate
>>> ballpark (which it wasn't) not to get an accurate result.
>>>
>>> I prefer story sticks.
>>
>> So do I ... but you must have an existing part, dimension, distance,
>> span on which to use a story stick.
>>
>> Once that first part is cut accurately to a 1/32, then it's story stick
>> time. :)
>>
>
> But when I hand-cut my dovetails, for example, I eyeball the spacing
> and mark the pins from the tails, using the tails as the story board.
>
> When I build furniture, I see no reason to specify that a leg is
> 1 and 17/32 square, I simply use 1 1/2.
You will respect that 1/32nd much more when doing angled joinery,
precise reveals, and parallel components for trouble free drawer and
inset door installation. ;)
> The mortices are either
> hand chopped with an appropriately sized morticing chisel (or for
> bulk work with the hollow-chisel morticer(GI) or the stationary horizontal
> mortiser(Laguna)).
> The tenons are fitted to to the mortice (loose or otherwise).
> The aprons may be 3/4 thick, but +/- 1/16 either way isn't a problem
> so long as they are all the _same_ thickness.
Sometimes ... Let's be as precise in our responses as in our measurements:
For the uninitiated, it is only fair to point out the absolute necessity
of using the _same_ "reference face" when determining the location of
mortises and tenons from either edge, otherwise any "reveal", or
squareness, you planned into your design may likely depart from that
design if you're mortises and tenons are not perfectly centered in the
stock, ether by design or by not being precise in your measurements,
particularly when doing angled components ... IOW, this is a place where
being 1/32" of in on or both can cause you grief if you ignore that
degree of precision in woodworking.
Just so happens I'm working on a chair reproduction as we speak where
the side aprons are 13/16" thick ... the error from using the wrong face
when installing the aprons is exactly 1/32" ... enough to cause a gap
and reveal error on either the front or back leg.
Again, that 1/32" lack of precision can bite you in the butt. ;)
> For doors, make sure all the stiles are the same length/w/t (use a stop block
> when cutting). Make sure all the rails are the same length (stop block),
> width (fence) and thickness (jointer/planer or handplane). Whether they
> are 25/32 or 24/32 thick doesn't really matter so long as they are
> all the _same_.
Yes, it's called "batch cutting", and if you'll check my posts for past
twelve years here, you'll see I'm a big proponent.
> It is not often that I need to _measure_ to a point between the 1/8"
> graduations on a rule. I _like_ my incra rules (but more because of
> the holes than because it has 64ths).
A leg that is 1/32" shorter than the rest will rock.
A front apron and back apron that are 1/32" off in length can cause a
table/chair leg reveal, or component squareness to be off by 1/16" at
24" ... totally unacceptable if the desired reveal is 1/8" ... or if the
drawer sides must be parallel.
As above, throw in angular error ... angles being much more difficult to
dial in precisely than length, width or thickness ... making 1/32nd
precision in said length, width or thickness, even more of a minimum
requirement.
Just a few of the reasons why I endeavor to work to 1/32" precision in
woodworking ... YMMV
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/26/2013 9:26 AM, Bill wrote:
> The measurement 21 3/32" implies accuracy to within 1/32".
> I don't think this should be compromised in the translation.
Absolutely ... 1/32" is the fractional resolution to which I set my
calculators and drawing programs for woodworking projects.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/25/2013 10:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/25/13 7:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it is 540 mm.
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>
>>> No fair using your slide rule!
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>>
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> If you enter the correct data.
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> 21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>>
>> 1" = 25.6 mm
>>
>> 21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>>
>> Nuf said.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>
> On what planet does 1" equal 25.6 mm?
>
>
Kalefornia
Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>On 2/26/2013 10:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> It's a simple means to check that the "227mm" is in the approximate
>> ballpark (which it wasn't) not to get an accurate result.
>>
>> I prefer story sticks.
>
>So do I ... but you must have an existing part, dimension, distance,
>span on which to use a story stick.
>
>Once that first part is cut accurately to a 1/32, then it's story stick
>time. :)
>
But when I hand-cut my dovetails, for example, I eyeball the spacing
and mark the pins from the tails, using the tails as the story board.
When I build furniture, I see no reason to specify that a leg is
1 and 17/32 square, I simply use 1 1/2. The mortices are either
hand chopped with an appropriately sized morticing chisel (or for
bulk work with the hollow-chisel morticer(GI) or the stationary horizontal
mortiser(Laguna)). The tenons are fitted to to the mortice (loose or otherwise).
The aprons may be 3/4 thick, but +/- 1/16 either way isn't a problem
so long as they are all the _same_ thickness.
For doors, make sure all the stiles are the same length/w/t (use a stop block
when cutting). Make sure all the rails are the same length (stop block),
width (fence) and thickness (jointer/planer or handplane). Whether they
are 25/32 or 24/32 thick doesn't really matter so long as they are
all the _same_.
It is not often that I need to _measure_ to a point between the 1/8"
graduations on a rule. I _like_ my incra rules (but more because of
the holes than because it has 64ths).
scott
On 2/25/2013 10:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/25/13 7:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it is 540 mm.
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>
>>> No fair using your slide rule!
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>>
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> If you enter the correct data.
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> 21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>>
>> 1" = 25.6 mm
>>
>> 21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>>
>> Nuf said.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>
> On what planet does 1" equal 25.6 mm?
Reading the myriad answers to my question, apparently there is not a
planet where GIGO does not apply. LOL
It why: "I have memorized the key strokes for conversion on every
calculator/device I have, and have tape measure with inches and mm on
opposite sides."
... and then double check. :)
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/26/2013 1:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Just so happens I'm working on a chair reproduction as we speak where
>> the side aprons are 13/16" thick ... the error from using the wrong
>> face when installing the aprons is exactly 1/32" ... enough to cause
>> a gap and reveal error on either the front or back leg.
>
> Case in point:
>
> Today, in order to get this:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5849359132307708194
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5849360549402609826
>
> I had to measure, with the same precision as the drawing (1/32")
> thusly:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5849367870123088434
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5849363206265997442
>
> (I use an Incra Rule and .05 Incra pencil lead when laying out to
> facilitate this)
>
> What it boils down to ... when you work from a precision drawing
> (Sketchup's precision, IIRC, is the same as AutoCad: 0.000001), you do
> yourself a big favor by trusting your model and using the actual
> dimensions of the drawing to the best of your ability.
>
> This will guarantee you that, if you take care in measurements and use
> the same resolution, you can accurately fabricate that model in real
> life, no matter how many you have to scale to fit a space.
>
> This may not seem like much, but put 12 cabinets side by side and
> expect everything to line up with precision and work out without a
> hitch, _in a space that did not even exist when you built the
> cabinets_ , you gotta learn to trust your tools. :)
>
> Even more important when you work with someone else and they use the
> same methods and sense of meticulous precision, but work in another
> location.
>
> Example: Leon built this cabinet, on less than 24 hours notice, in his
> shop, and from a drawing, and it fit in between two already installed
> components _precisely_ the next morning, I do mean precisely:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopEuropeanSty
> leKitchen201102#5679345527006982290
>
> From this:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5
> 849377120382568930
>
> (and yes, we calibrated/checked our table saw fence rulers about six
> years ago)
>
> And, I'm still impressed that by that feat ... :)
Wow ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On 2/25/2013 6:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> Oops. Off the tip of my head..... 535.78130000000001 NOT!
> ---------------------------------------
> Actually it is 540 mm.
I rest my case ... ;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/26/2013 1:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Just so happens I'm working on a chair reproduction as we speak where
> the side aprons are 13/16" thick ... the error from using the wrong face
> when installing the aprons is exactly 1/32" ... enough to cause a gap
> and reveal error on either the front or back leg.
Case in point:
Today, in order to get this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849359132307708194
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849360549402609826
I had to measure, with the same precision as the drawing (1/32") thusly:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849367870123088434
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849363206265997442
(I use an Incra Rule and .05 Incra pencil lead when laying out to
facilitate this)
What it boils down to ... when you work from a precision drawing
(Sketchup's precision, IIRC, is the same as AutoCad: 0.000001), you do
yourself a big favor by trusting your model and using the actual
dimensions of the drawing to the best of your ability.
This will guarantee you that, if you take care in measurements and use
the same resolution, you can accurately fabricate that model in real
life, no matter how many you have to scale to fit a space.
This may not seem like much, but put 12 cabinets side by side and expect
everything to line up with precision and work out without a hitch, _in a
space that did not even exist when you built the cabinets_ , you gotta
learn to trust your tools. :)
Even more important when you work with someone else and they use the
same methods and sense of meticulous precision, but work in another
location.
Example: Leon built this cabinet, on less than 24 hours notice, in his
shop, and from a drawing, and it fit in between two already installed
components _precisely_ the next morning, I do mean precisely:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopEuropeanStyleKitchen201102#5679345527006982290
From this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5849377120382568930
(and yes, we calibrated/checked our table saw fence rulers about six
years ago)
And, I'm still impressed that by that feat ... :)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/26/2013 10:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> It's a simple means to check that the "227mm" is in the approximate
> ballpark (which it wasn't) not to get an accurate result.
>
> I prefer story sticks.
So do I ... but you must have an existing part, dimension, distance,
span on which to use a story stick.
Once that first part is cut accurately to a 1/32, then it's story stick
time. :)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
>>
>>> I just need to get used to looking at the world in millimeters
>>> rather than inches.
>>
>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>
>> Congratulations on the Domino, and the excellent deal. The ability to
>> _easily_ do floating tenon M&T joinery will open up a new world of
>> possibilities for your woodworking endeavors.
>>
>
>
> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>
> Approximately
>
> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
factor for gouges).
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Swingman wrote:
>>
>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>
>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Less than 25.6 mm.
>
>Lew
>
>
>
>
I calculate it to be quite a bit more than that.
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>
>>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately
>>>>
>>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>>
>>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>>> factor for gouges).
>>
>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>
>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>>
>227mm
I don't know, forget about the 3/32" for a minute, 21" by itself is more
than half a meter...
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
Swingman wrote:
> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>
>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>
>>> Approximately
>>>
>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>
>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>> factor for gouges).
>
> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
I'd go 21*25.4 +3/4(3). The calculation induced from 24mm/in looks a
little short.
>
> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>
On 2/25/13 7:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Actually it is 540 mm.
> ----------------------------------------
>> "Bill" wrote:
>>
>> No fair using your slide rule!
> ------------------------------------------
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> If you enter the correct data.
> -----------------------------------------------
> 21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>
> 1" = 25.6 mm
>
> 21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>
> Nuf said.
>
> Lew
>
On what planet does 1" equal 25.6 mm?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/26/2013 10:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>>
>>>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>>>
>>>>> Approximately
>>>>>
>>>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>>>
>>>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>>>> factor for gouges).
>>>
>>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>>
>>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>>>
>> 227mm
>
> Simple rule of thumb 5cm is approx 2in. 4in per 10 cm (100mm).
>
> 21/2 = 10.5 * 5 = 52.5 cm = 525 mm. It's not exact, but will
> give one an idea of the general vicinity.
>
The measurement 21 3/32" implies accuracy to within 1/32".
I don't think this should be compromised in the translation.
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Actually it is 540 mm.
> ----------------------------------------
>> "Bill" wrote:
>>
>> No fair using your slide rule!
>------------------------------------------
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>
>"Leon" wrote:
>
>> If you enter the correct data.
>-----------------------------------------------
>21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>
>1" = 25.6 mm
>
>21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>
>Nuf said.
>
>Lew
>
Here on the East coast there are still 25.4 millimeters per inch. When did
they change it in California?
--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry W <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>Here on the East coast there are still 25.4 millimeters per inch. When did
>they change it in California?
After the Loma Prieta quake. They didn't want to re-survey the
440 Freeway, so they came up with this compromise.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>,
Edward A. Falk <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Larry W <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>Here on the East coast there are still 25.4 millimeters per inch. When did
>>they change it in California?
>
>After the Loma Prieta quake. They didn't want to re-survey the
>440 Freeway, so they came up with this compromise.
>
A few good things that originated in California have worked their way
across the country over the years. "Right turn on red after stopping" comes
to mind. I hope this change to 25.6mm/inch does not make it!
--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
>
>> Are you using 1" = 25.6 mm?
>>>
>>> Lew
> -------------------------------------
> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>
>> I hope not. 1" = 25.4 mm.
>>
>> Puckdropper
> -----------------------------------------
> Is the mind the first or the second thing to go?
>
Only your ureologist knows for sure...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
>
>> I just need to get used to looking at the world in millimeters
>> rather than inches.
>
> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>
> Congratulations on the Domino, and the excellent deal. The ability to
> _easily_ do floating tenon M&T joinery will open up a new world of
> possibilities for your woodworking endeavors.
>
Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
Approximately
24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:35:24 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/26/2013 1:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Just so happens I'm working on a chair reproduction as we speak where
>> the side aprons are 13/16" thick ... the error from using the wrong face
>> when installing the aprons is exactly 1/32" ... enough to cause a gap
>> and reveal error on either the front or back leg.
>
>Case in point:
>
>Today, in order to get this:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849359132307708194
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849360549402609826
>
>I had to measure, with the same precision as the drawing (1/32") thusly:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849367870123088434
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5849363206265997442
>
>(I use an Incra Rule and .05 Incra pencil lead when laying out to
>facilitate this)
>
>What it boils down to ... when you work from a precision drawing
>(Sketchup's precision, IIRC, is the same as AutoCad: 0.000001), you do
>yourself a big favor by trusting your model and using the actual
>dimensions of the drawing to the best of your ability.
>
>This will guarantee you that, if you take care in measurements and use
>the same resolution, you can accurately fabricate that model in real
>life, no matter how many you have to scale to fit a space.
>
>This may not seem like much, but put 12 cabinets side by side and expect
>everything to line up with precision and work out without a hitch, _in a
>space that did not even exist when you built the cabinets_ , you gotta
>learn to trust your tools. :)
>
>Even more important when you work with someone else and they use the
>same methods and sense of meticulous precision, but work in another
>location.
>
>Example: Leon built this cabinet, on less than 24 hours notice, in his
>shop, and from a drawing, and it fit in between two already installed
>components _precisely_ the next morning, I do mean precisely:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopEuropeanStyleKitchen201102#5679345527006982290
>
> From this:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5849377120382568930
>
>(and yes, we calibrated/checked our table saw fence rulers about six
>years ago)
>
>And, I'm still impressed that by that feat ... :)
Nice work, I don't understand why people argue about trying for as
much accuracy as you can get. My experience has been that the more
attention to the detail saves a lot of problems in finishing a
project. You have a system that works well for you. I can't claim to
always work to that accuracy but I applaud you for holding yourself to
your standard.
Mike M
On 3/7/2013 7:59 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/27/2013 5:54 PM, Mike M wrote:
>> ...I don't understand why people argue about trying for as
>> much accuracy as you can get. My experience has been that the more
>> attention to the detail saves a lot of problems in finishing a
>> project. You have a system that works well for you. I can't claim to
>> always work to that accuracy but I applaud you for holding yourself to
>> your standard.
>
> I do it simply because my work requires it.
>
> Here's an absolute perfect example of how easy it is to be bit in the
> butt by 1/16" if you don't:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5852591840854584354
>
>
> Rotating, a part 1/16" over 2 3/8" (instead of making a small, <1.4
> degree, compound angle, cut in the apron) causes an almost 3/4" error in
> leg offset ... totally unacceptable, and grievous, for both intended
> use, and implementation of design.
>
> Imagine, what it would do to your reputation and bottom line, to give a
> client, who paid you good money for a faithful reproduction, the chair
> on the right, and then have her put it next to an existing chair in her
> dining room and expect them to visually line up for her next dinner party.
>
> The tendency to ignore precise measuring, and angle inconsistencies, no
> matter how convenient to do so, is a fools game that will very often
> result in unintended consequences costing time, money and materials.
>
> (Also points out the wisdom of making a detailed, scale model of your
> project before you ever go out to the shop so these types of issues can
> be sussed out on paper, instead of on materials ... IOW, enter the
> obligatory Sketchup tout, once again <G>)
>
> And no ... I did not make this mistake, although I did wonder just what
> the consequences/impact of eight fewer compound angle mortise and
> floating tenon joints would have on the project ... thanks to Sketchup,
> that was easier to determine than would otherwise been possible ... just
> thought I'd share it.) :)
>
> Measure twice, carefully and with precision ... then repeat as often as
> necessary. ;)
>
And to further support accuracy beyond 1/32", the below link goes to
my desk top which I glued up today. Length 93.5" Height 54" Depth
14.5". 8 dado's in the plywood panels and 12 dado/groves in the front
and back face frames, no butt joints.
Back and front face frames are not identical, back rails are different
length as are the center stiles from the front rails. Back center
stiles are also wider than the front center stiles.
Nothing was cut to fit, all was cut exactly to reflect the plans. Had
any cuts been off this would non have locked together as it did. Whew!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8536729515/lightbox/
On 2/27/2013 5:54 PM, Mike M wrote:
> ...I don't understand why people argue about trying for as
> much accuracy as you can get. My experience has been that the more
> attention to the detail saves a lot of problems in finishing a
> project. You have a system that works well for you. I can't claim to
> always work to that accuracy but I applaud you for holding yourself to
> your standard.
I do it simply because my work requires it.
Here's an absolute perfect example of how easy it is to be bit in the
butt by 1/16" if you don't:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5852591840854584354
Rotating, a part 1/16" over 2 3/8" (instead of making a small, <1.4
degree, compound angle, cut in the apron) causes an almost 3/4" error in
leg offset ... totally unacceptable, and grievous, for both intended
use, and implementation of design.
Imagine, what it would do to your reputation and bottom line, to give a
client, who paid you good money for a faithful reproduction, the chair
on the right, and then have her put it next to an existing chair in her
dining room and expect them to visually line up for her next dinner party.
The tendency to ignore precise measuring, and angle inconsistencies, no
matter how convenient to do so, is a fools game that will very often
result in unintended consequences costing time, money and materials.
(Also points out the wisdom of making a detailed, scale model of your
project before you ever go out to the shop so these types of issues can
be sussed out on paper, instead of on materials ... IOW, enter the
obligatory Sketchup tout, once again <G>)
And no ... I did not make this mistake, although I did wonder just what
the consequences/impact of eight fewer compound angle mortise and
floating tenon joints would have on the project ... thanks to Sketchup,
that was easier to determine than would otherwise been possible ... just
thought I'd share it.) :)
Measure twice, carefully and with precision ... then repeat as often as
necessary. ;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 3/7/2013 2:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> And to further support accuracy beyond 1/32", the below link goes to
>> my desk top which I glued up today. Length 93.5" Height 54" Depth
>> 14.5". 8 dado's in the plywood panels and 12 dado/groves in the front
>> and back face frames, no butt joints.
>>
>> Back and front face frames are not identical, back rails are
>> different length as are the center stiles from the front rails. Back
>> center stiles are also wider than the front center stiles.
>>
>> Nothing was cut to fit, all was cut exactly to reflect the plans.
>> Had any cuts been off this would non have locked together as it did.
>> Whew!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8536729515/lightbox/
>
> Damn ... and I was looking forward to coming over and helping you
> pound on it to fit!! ;)
>
> Looking good!
>
> Had my own "Whew" just a minute ago ... all frame mortises & tenons
> cut, aprons and rails done, and dry fit:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5852694851810598658
>
> Routing mortises accurately in curved parts is pucker time, indeed.
>
> I still have the curved back rests slats left ... onward.
Wow ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On 3/7/2013 2:16 PM, Leon wrote:
> And to further support accuracy beyond 1/32", the below link goes to my
> desk top which I glued up today. Length 93.5" Height 54" Depth 14.5".
> 8 dado's in the plywood panels and 12 dado/groves in the front and back
> face frames, no butt joints.
>
> Back and front face frames are not identical, back rails are different
> length as are the center stiles from the front rails. Back center
> stiles are also wider than the front center stiles.
>
> Nothing was cut to fit, all was cut exactly to reflect the plans. Had
> any cuts been off this would non have locked together as it did. Whew!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8536729515/lightbox/
Damn ... and I was looking forward to coming over and helping you pound
on it to fit!! ;)
Looking good!
Had my own "Whew" just a minute ago ... all frame mortises & tenons cut,
aprons and rails done, and dry fit:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852694851810598658
Routing mortises accurately in curved parts is pucker time, indeed.
I still have the curved back rests slats left ... onward.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>
>>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately
>>>>
>>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>>
>>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>>> factor for gouges).
>>
>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>
>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>>
>227mm
Simple rule of thumb 5cm is approx 2in. 4in per 10 cm (100mm).
21/2 = 10.5 * 5 = 52.5 cm = 525 mm. It's not exact, but will
give one an idea of the general vicinity.
On 2/25/2013 5:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>
>>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately
>>>>
>>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>>
>>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>>> factor for gouges).
>>
>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>
>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>>
> 227mm
Oops. Off the tip of my head..... 535.78130000000001 NOT!
On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>
>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>
>>> Approximately
>>>
>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>
>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>> factor for gouges).
>
> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>
> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>
227mm
On 2/26/2013 11:21 AM, Mike M wrote:
> I actually bought a couple of those 12' tapes you recommended and they
> come in handy. Only problem I have is when I'm in some akword
> position and realize I have the tape in the wrong hand to get an
> accurate measurement because the wrong scale is pointed toward my work
> surface. Tape is easier then having to remember 2.54 cm to the inch.
And for that very reason I don't necessarily like using a combo inch/mm
tape ... but they are handy when setting up the Festool plunge
saw/parallel guides to cut sheet goods for that initial setup to get you
close; and also for a quick reference when having to make conversions.
--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:16:27 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 3/7/2013 7:59 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/27/2013 5:54 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>> ...I don't understand why people argue about trying for as
>>> much accuracy as you can get. My experience has been that the more
>>> attention to the detail saves a lot of problems in finishing a
>>> project. You have a system that works well for you. I can't claim to
>>> always work to that accuracy but I applaud you for holding yourself to
>>> your standard.
>>
>> I do it simply because my work requires it.
>>
>> Here's an absolute perfect example of how easy it is to be bit in the
>> butt by 1/16" if you don't:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5852591840854584354
>>
>>
>> Rotating, a part 1/16" over 2 3/8" (instead of making a small, <1.4
>> degree, compound angle, cut in the apron) causes an almost 3/4" error in
>> leg offset ... totally unacceptable, and grievous, for both intended
>> use, and implementation of design.
>>
>> Imagine, what it would do to your reputation and bottom line, to give a
>> client, who paid you good money for a faithful reproduction, the chair
>> on the right, and then have her put it next to an existing chair in her
>> dining room and expect them to visually line up for her next dinner party.
>>
>> The tendency to ignore precise measuring, and angle inconsistencies, no
>> matter how convenient to do so, is a fools game that will very often
>> result in unintended consequences costing time, money and materials.
>>
>> (Also points out the wisdom of making a detailed, scale model of your
>> project before you ever go out to the shop so these types of issues can
>> be sussed out on paper, instead of on materials ... IOW, enter the
>> obligatory Sketchup tout, once again <G>)
>>
>> And no ... I did not make this mistake, although I did wonder just what
>> the consequences/impact of eight fewer compound angle mortise and
>> floating tenon joints would have on the project ... thanks to Sketchup,
>> that was easier to determine than would otherwise been possible ... just
>> thought I'd share it.) :)
>>
>> Measure twice, carefully and with precision ... then repeat as often as
>> necessary. ;)
>>
>
>And to further support accuracy beyond 1/32", the below link goes to
>my desk top which I glued up today. Length 93.5" Height 54" Depth
>14.5". 8 dado's in the plywood panels and 12 dado/groves in the front
>and back face frames, no butt joints.
>
>Back and front face frames are not identical, back rails are different
>length as are the center stiles from the front rails. Back center
>stiles are also wider than the front center stiles.
>
>Nothing was cut to fit, all was cut exactly to reflect the plans. Had
>any cuts been off this would non have locked together as it did. Whew!
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8536729515/lightbox/
>
>
>
>
>
I do agree with you, just haven't achieved the ability to perfectly
execute all of it yet. Did invest in the drill press table and fence
from Woodpecker so looking forward to trying that. I do agree with
the idea of using sketchup and batch cutting. I'm also quilty of
having way to many things going on. Anyway your project is coming
along great and looks great as well. If I didn't have to take these
pain pills it would probably help my accuracy too.
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:27:44 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/25/2013 10:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/25/13 7:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually it is 540 mm.
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No fair using your slide rule!
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still good to 3 decimel place accuracy.
>>>
>>> "Leon" wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you enter the correct data.
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> 21-3/32" = 21.09375"
>>>
>>> 1" = 25.6 mm
>>>
>>> 21.09375" x 25.6 mm/" = 540 mm.
>>>
>>> Nuf said.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>
>> On what planet does 1" equal 25.6 mm?
>
>Reading the myriad answers to my question, apparently there is not a
>planet where GIGO does not apply. LOL
>
>It why: "I have memorized the key strokes for conversion on every
>calculator/device I have, and have tape measure with inches and mm on
>opposite sides."
>
>... and then double check. :)
I actually bought a couple of those 12' tapes you recommended and they
come in handy. Only problem I have is when I'm in some akword
position and realize I have the tape in the wrong hand to get an
accurate measurement because the wrong scale is pointed toward my work
surface. Tape is easier then having to remember 2.54 cm to the inch.
Mike M
Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>On 2/26/2013 10:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>>> On 2/25/2013 1:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 2/25/2013 12:18 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> On 2/25/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/25/2013 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> That's one thing Festool is good at, so much so that I have memorized
>>>>>>> the key strokes for conversion on every calculator/device I have, and
>>>>>>> have tape measure with inches and mm on opposite sides.
>>>>
>>>>>> Oddly mm's are a lot like a clock when comparing inches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Approximately
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 24mm/hours = 1"/ 1 day, 12mm/hours = 1/2" / 1/2 day
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's worth mentioning that 3mm ~ 1/8" (its my primary conversion
>>>>> factor for gouges).
>>>>
>>>> Quick ... and in your head: What's 21 3/32" in mm?
>>>>
>>>> Yep, that's what I thought ... and what I'm talking about.
>>>>
>>> 227mm
>>
>> Simple rule of thumb 5cm is approx 2in. 4in per 10 cm (100mm).
>>
>> 21/2 = 10.5 * 5 = 52.5 cm = 525 mm. It's not exact, but will
>> give one an idea of the general vicinity.
>>
>
>The measurement 21 3/32" implies accuracy to within 1/32".
>I don't think this should be compromised in the translation.
It's a simple means to check that the "227mm" is in the approximate
ballpark (which it wasn't) not to get an accurate result.
I prefer story sticks.
scott
On 2/26/2013 3:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Even more important when you work with someone else and they use the
> same methods and sense of meticulous precision
Even more important when you work with someone else and they use the
same methods and sense of meticulous precision
Damn, I going to have to copy paste this in my note app on my phone so
that I can sound more better when explaining things. ;~)
A neighbor stopped by and was wondering how all this, computer to
workshop, stuff worked, I summed up your phrase above by simply saying
that it helps to be "AR".
Thinking back to this morning when setting up a dado to within .005" of
being 1/2" wide after adjusting the first trial cut. That is a precision
that is approaching 5/1016".
FWIW that is hard to see on the ruler. ;~) Thank goodness for
electronic calipers.
On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
> Went to see my Woodcraft dealer yesterday to get his counsel on the Domino I bought last week. Bought the Festool hose ($75)to attach to my shop vac and another cutter ($37), which brings my investment to $562. He agrees that this was a great deal as it came with all of the alignment accessories and about 150 tenons of various sizes.
>
> Fired it up for the first time a few minutes ago and zapped a few mortises in some scrap. SWEET. I just need to get used to looking at the world in millimeters rather than inches.
>
> Larry
>
One caution, do not rely on the base of the Domino to accurately index
from the bottom surface of the wood that you are working with. Always
use the fence to hang the Domino from the top surface of the wood.
This goes for plate joiners also.