Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure what
is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the moment.
I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
limited cash availability?
I've built a maple coffee table and my next big project is a Cherry
dining table with leaf. I'm currently working on a lot of small
projects though, including some beer steins for friends (like you see at
those rennaissance festivals), clocks for my daughter and some friends,
cutting boards, wine racks, a couple of decorative and utility boxes,
and a photo album cover for a wedding gift (much inlay work...fun stuff).
I have a circular saw, belt sander, ROS, skill saw, a couple of drills,
a router attachment for my dremel, which is suiting me reasonably well
for now (will definitely be getting a router eventually though) and some
hand tools including various saws, chisels, planes etc.
So after all that, are there any recommendations for tools I might find
very useful (limited space availability) but haven't mentioned? I
considered a planer, but honestly don't expect much need for one at this
point.
Thanks for any input you folks may have.
bkr
bkr wrote:
> Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
> situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure
what
> is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the
moment.
>
> I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's
right
> but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
> wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
> between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use
to
> me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
> use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So
what
> order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below
and
> limited cash availability?
>
> I've built a maple coffee table and my next big project is a Cherry
> dining table with leaf. I'm currently working on a lot of small
> projects though, including some beer steins for friends (like you see
at
> those rennaissance festivals), clocks for my daughter and some
friends,
> cutting boards, wine racks, a couple of decorative and utility boxes,
> and a photo album cover for a wedding gift (much inlay work...fun
stuff).
> So after all that, are there any recommendations for tools I might
find
> very useful (limited space availability) but haven't mentioned? I
> considered a planer, but honestly don't expect much need for one at
this
> point.
Interesting, I can't imagine living WITHOUT a planer. What do you do
if you need a board that's 3/8" thick, but only have 1/2"??? Run to
the lumberyard every time you need a special size? I'd go with the
planer.
After that, a miter saw. It makes cutting accurate 45's so much easier
than a miter gauge and a TS.
I would upgrade the TS to a 10" first. It is a lot of money but well
worth it. I started with a Crapsman direct drive table top saw and
when it finally broke (13 months) I upgraded to a Jet contractor saw.
A bigger saw will give you much more flexibility and accuracy. I would
even consider buying a used TS. They are simple machines with few
moving parts, if everything is straight and the bearings are good the
most you have to worry about is the motor.
I have a TS, router, planer (freebie), jigsaw, plate joiner, and a
rotozip (piece of junk). I'm not sure what to get next, I'm torn
between: bandsaw, drill press or a joiner (can't get it right on the
router table). I'm guessing after 2 or 3 more projects I'll decide,
but I'm leaning toward the drill press.
I wouldn't buy 'cheap' tools. After the Crapsman TS and the rotozip, I
read a lot and go to the Borg and get a feel for the tools and buy the
best I can afford. You can also rent tools cheaply and test drive
them...
Well the joiner may be next. My current project is a coffee table and
I need to edge join the boards for the top. This is the first time I
am trying this so If I can't get it right on the router table or with a
new TS blade a new joiner may be required ;-).
I finished this yesterday and am hoping it will improve my chances of
joining with a router:
http://woodstore.woodmall.com/rofe.html
Funny how every project requires a new jig or tool...
This site also gave me some good tips:
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rtrplnr.htm
If I still can't get it right with the router I will try a new saw
blade first. I currently use a 50T Craftsman blade for just about
everything.
[email protected] wrote:
> Interesting, I can't imagine living WITHOUT a planer. What do you do
> if you need a board that's 3/8" thick, but only have 1/2"??? Run to
> the lumberyard every time you need a special size? I'd go with the
> planer.
Can't afford a planer, and where on earth would I put it anyway? I find
when thicknessing a board, it almost never really matters if one face is a
little off. So I get one face flat, use it as a reference for the other
face, and hand plane to the line. I don't get 100% results, but since it
almost never really matters if one face is a little off...
> After that, a miter saw. It makes cutting accurate 45's so much easier
> than a miter gauge and a TS.
Or build a good miter sled for the TS. I got some amazingly good miters out
of my incredibly crappy Skil 3400 after I built a good, solid sled. I made
a bunch of poster frames with it. I just looked at them a couple years
later, and found the miters are spot on. Looking back, it's really
impressive what I was able to do with that piece of junk, through the
liberal application of jiggery. I'm much happier to have a real saw now
though. (Or what I consider a real saw anyway. There's always some guy
with three Unisaws snickering at me from the back of the room. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
bkr wrote:
> I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
> but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
> wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
> between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
> me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
> use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
> order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
> limited cash availability?
It really depends on what tickles your fancy. As I suggested in a response
to another post, a miter sled can work wonders. It is still comparatively
hard to cut angles on long stock on a little saw, or on any table saw, even
with all the sleds, hold-downs and other jiggery in the world. If you're
doing a lot of angle cutting on stock 4' long or more a miter saw would
probably become your bestest friend in a jiffy.
My drill press is the machine of a thousand uses. I use it to put holes in
things. Big holes, little holes, through holes, stopped holes, multiple
holes, rows of holes. The holes always come out clean, and they're always
perpendicular to the surface of the work if I want them to be. I don't
even have any sanding or rosette cutting attachments or other whatnots for
the thing. Just a variety of drilling and boring bits. My drill press
sees tons of use because I obviously have much need in life for a multitude
of controlled holes. Countersunk screws, recessed bolt holes for jigs,
dowel holes, and a gazillion other holes. If you don't have much need for
holes, then a drill press isn't a lot of good to you. It's quite possible
to do without one with a portable electric drill and some creativity. In
fact, you need both anyway. I use my portable drill almost as much as my
DP because sometimes it's necessary to take the drill to the work instead
of the other way around.
My scrollsaw is almost completely useless to me. I just haven't been
inspired to do much of anything with it at all. Other people spend the
vast majority of their shop time scrolling away, and those folks would look
at me like a weirdo for taking the position that those little machines are
virtually useless. I think to some extent it's because I got a crappy one
that doesn't work very well.
So what I'm getting at ultimately is that it really depends on you. I can't
tell you which machine you will find most useful for doing a coffee table
because I've never built a coffee table. What will you do for your next
project? Well, that largely depends on which machine you buy, doesn't
it? :)
In the end, it's about you, how you work, what you want to do, and what
trades you're willing to make. For example, as I also mentioned in that
other message, I don't have a planer. I can do without it using hand
planes, but hand planes are a big can o' worms, and almost a hobby unto
themselves. You can do without lots of things. I find the most annoying
things to do without are a good, somewhat respectable sized table saw, and
a floor-standing drill press. Those two would be the last to go in my
shop, although I suppose the portable electric drill would be the absolute
dead last thing to go. So that must be my favorite machine.
So I guess basically if I were you, I'd dump that 8" Makita for a decent
contractor's saw and start there. But I'm not you.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Andy Dingley wrote:
> grockle flanger, then buy one. Buy either a good modern version of
> by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a
> drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer".
> Never buy a tool that could get itself a bit-part in a Japanese
> giant-robot animation.
I have to say, Andy, most of the time when I say I'm laughing, I'm not
really laughing. It takes quite a lot to get me to laugh for real, and
this one brought on a good one. I needed that.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
bkr wrote:
> Thanks for the advice...I originally was going to get nothing smaller
> than a 10" TS but this fell in my lap from a friend who won it and has
> no interest in woodwork. I figured I could keep it until it dies and
> then upgrade in size. I have access to a 10" and 14" anyway, so if I
> absolutely need a bigger one I can get to it, with only a little
> pre-planning.
All 10" saws aren't created equal. My first one was a Skil 3400 that I got
new for $50. It was worth $50, but not anywhere close to what those things
usually sell for. When I went looking to upgrade, I tried to find a small
saw that wasn't a piece of junk. I discovered I wasn't going to get by
with a small saw, so now I have the deck from an aircraft carrier in my
eency weency little shop. It's unwieldy to say the least.
I'd say most benchtop saws are about equally crappy, and I made some very
nice things with mine. In fact, for various reasons, I haven't actually
made anything of real substance with my new saw yet. Everything I have to
my credit was done with a complete POS with a warped aluminum table. Or
even less. I started off with nothing but an electric drill, a crappy B&D
jigsaw and a miter box/backsaw. I got a Crapsman router with Depth
Randomizer and Carbide Ejection System next. Big mistake.
> I was hoping to hear about. I'm actually moved more to get the drill
> press now, since it doesn't take up as much space as some others and I
> can see a use for making mortises and such which I do quite a bit of
> (with a router bit on a dremel right now, which I don't much like.)
Well, you just heard me raving about it, so I won't rave again. I really
love my drill press. I traded my 10" benchtop for a 15" floor model after
just one year, I think. Maybe two years. I love it. Yet there are folks
here who are content with a crappy Harbor Freight 9" benchtop that they
leave sitting in the corner most of the time.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
J&KCopeland wrote:
> Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a lathe,
> but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
Serious mucho $$$$$$$ here. It really is a world unto itself. It has so
little in common with "flatwood" that the two can hardly both live together
under the name "woodworking." Which is why they call themselves turners,
not woodworkers, and keep their $7,000 lathes and $250 bowl gouges over on
the other newsgroup. :)
> Buy assorted nail guns, including a framing nailer, a finish nailer and a
> brad nailer. (BTW, so far my two Craftsman nail guns have performed as
> well as my Porter Cable and Paslode)
Don't shoot yourself in the head/eye/arm/heart with it though.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Bob G. wrote:
>>Serious mucho $$$$$$$ here. It really is a world unto itself. It has so
> I have had a Cheap Sears Lathe since the mid 60's and for just..
> plain.. relaxing... fun... it was well worth them money...
Don't get me wrong here, I have a lathe too. I'm just pointing out that
it's a whole different world, and probably not something I'd put on a short
list of must haves for a new woodworker.
> I am not a "turner" for sure... BUT I do not have any other machine in
> my shop that I use as a toy to play with..on days that I feel like
> being a little boy again... lol
I'd say I'm in the same camp. If you take turning seriously, it's just too
much money, too much equipment, too much everything. I like to have a bit
of fun, but I haven't actually found much practical use for my lathe yet,
other than making replacement knobs for hand planes. I have enough change
dishes, mushrooms and candlestick holders to last several lifetimes. My
lathe is a mini, and I can't do much else on it. I definitely don't have
room for a full sized lathe, so that's basically just the end of it for me.
It's a fun toy, but it's basically useless as anything other than a
momentary amusement. Make something neat looking, then throw it on the
fire so it doesn't clutter the place up.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Prometheus wrote:
> suggest that over any of the others is that you'll be able to make
> dadoes and rebates with it- something you probably can't do with a 8"
> table saw (my guess is that the arbor is too short for a dado stack,
> though Ryobi may have done better than Delta in that regard). and
Wellllllllll... I just built a printer stand with dadoed shelves, and I
don't have a dado stack or a working router. Or a suitable hand plane for
that matter. About five kerfs, some chisel work, came out perfect.
Stopped dadoes are more fiddly though, such as a rabbeted box bottom on a
piece where the sides aren't mitered. You either have a lot of weird
fiddling to do to pare off the slopey curvy bits the blade didn't hog off,
or else you have to go back and glue in little cheater pieces. Of course,
you'd have the same exact problem with a dado stack, just with fewer kerfs.
Routers are good for this kind of stuff, I'll admit. Fast, easy. It's
probably something I'll do with a router if I ever buy one that's more
practical to use.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
I would not buy a single tool at this point...
Pick a project....any simple project will do....
and run out to your shop and start making sawdust...
If you find you need a tool to complete that project
then go out and buy what you need....Repeat the process
many many times....
However I suggest that you start buying "good" tools tright from the
start... Those tools you listed that you own now... may make you want
to give up woodworking...
Enjoy...
Bob Griffiths
.
[email protected] wrote:
> bkr wrote:
>
>>Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
>>situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure
>
> what
>
>>is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the
>
> moment.
>
>>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's
>
> right
>
>>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
>
>
>>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
>>between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use
>
> to
>
>>me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
>
>
>>use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So
>
> what
>
>>order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below
>
> and
>
>>limited cash availability?
>>
>>I've built a maple coffee table and my next big project is a Cherry
>>dining table with leaf. I'm currently working on a lot of small
>>projects though, including some beer steins for friends (like you see
>
> at
>
>>those rennaissance festivals), clocks for my daughter and some
>
> friends,
>
>>cutting boards, wine racks, a couple of decorative and utility boxes,
>
>
>>and a photo album cover for a wedding gift (much inlay work...fun
>
> stuff).
>
>
>>So after all that, are there any recommendations for tools I might
>
> find
>
>>very useful (limited space availability) but haven't mentioned? I
>>considered a planer, but honestly don't expect much need for one at
>
> this
>
>>point.
>
>
> Interesting, I can't imagine living WITHOUT a planer. What do you do
> if you need a board that's 3/8" thick, but only have 1/2"??? Run to
> the lumberyard every time you need a special size? I'd go with the
> planer.
>
> After that, a miter saw. It makes cutting accurate 45's so much easier
> than a miter gauge and a TS.
>
Actually, I use the table saw to trim the wood, and use the trim for
something else like inlays. If I use a planer (my brother has one) the
only thing I have left is spill cleaner. Honestly, the reason I'm not
really considering a planer is space and cost at this point. Saws have
much more versatility for the same price.
bkr
J&KCopeland wrote:
> "bkr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>J&KCopeland wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Go to Sears
>>>Get a credit card.
>>>Go to the tool department.
>>>Charge that card to the hilt.
>>>
>>>By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
>>>Worn out some tools
>>>Broken other tools
>>>Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
>>>Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
>>>where which cheap is just fine.....
>>>
>>>Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
>>>
>>>James.....
>>>
>>
>>Ah, no, thanks. I don't use credit cards for anything and the Sears near
>>me doesn't seem to have a good selection of power tools of the kind I'm
>>looking for.
>>
>>bkr
>
>
> Okay...then...
>
> Buy one of the larger mechanics tool sets. I don't care what you do in
> life, you're going to use tools from that set from time to time.
> Save yourself some grief and buy a mid-range tool box to hold those tools.
> Keep the tools in the tool box. Soundly admonish any spouse or offspring
> that would dare to take a tool from that box and not put it back. (BTW,
> Craftsman mechanics tools are perfectly acceptable for the average
> non-mechanic).
>
> Now buy the basics. Hammers, handsaws, circular saw, and perhaps a
> reciprocating saw.
> Buy an assortment of GOOD hammers in various weights. (I prefer fiberglass
> handles, but my best 13 oz trim hammer is wood-handled Plumb made in the
> 30's) Get use to the idea of buying "the basics" for the rest of your life.
>
> Buy a 10" table saw. If you can afford it, buy a mid-range cabinet saw.
> You'll probably never have to buy another one.
> (Consider the need for portability. If you don't need to move it from job
> to job, there is no reason to sacrifice any feature for portability)
> Buy one of the better fences for that saw.
>
> But the best blades you can afford. Figure out where you're going to get
> the blades sharpened. (This is important. Good blades are expensive.
> However, good blades that are dull are pretty close to worthless)
>
> Buy several books dedicated to making jigs. Do not try to reinvent the
> wheel, rather use the innovativeness of other, wiser people to make you life
> easier. Search the internet diligently and make sure you save any gems to
> be used at a later time. Invest some time in 19th Century tool techniques.
> Just remember that they were every bit as lazy as you are. And very few of
> them found virtue in doing something the hard way.
>
> Locate a supplier for Johnson's Paste Wax. It has a thousand uses from
> protecting wood to protecting your table saw top.
>
> *****If you choose the neader path, then start buying planes, and the rest
> of this post is probably worthless to you.
>
> Buy a 6" jointer (You can put this off for a while, but when you do get
> one, you're going to wonder why you waited so long.)
>
> Now you can start to diversify depending on your preferences.
>
> Buy clamps. (Create a tradition that for all birthdays, anniversaries and
> holidays, that the present of choice for you are clamps. Provide suggestion
> lists of which clamps.)
>
> Buy a good drill press (Surprising to me, I probably use that drill press
> with as much frequency as any tool in the shop)
> Buy a good bandsaw (I don't use mine all that much, but that's just me.)
> Buy a good compound miter saw (Personally, I'm not all that enamored with
> those sliding miter saws. But, I use the miter saw as much as the table
> saw.)
>
> Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a lathe,
> but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
>
> Buy a decent air compressor.
>
> Start buying routers Buy big brutes, plunge and fixed base, and buy small
> ones (laminate trimmers)
> Buy decent router bits. Do not buy the sets. You'll never use half the
> bits in a big set.
>
> Buy one of the better dovetail kits.
> Buy one of the better dado sets
>
> Buy assorted nail guns, including a framing nailer, a finish nailer and a
> brad nailer. (BTW, so far my two Craftsman nail guns have performed as well
> as my Porter Cable and Paslode)
>
> It won't take very many years before you can come back and go through the
> post, point by point and say, "This was bullshit, and this was a good
> suggestion."
>
> James...
>
>
James, thanks for the advice. I was looking in the bookstore yesterday
for woodworking books. Any suggestions for books on jigs? I noticed a
couple other comments yesterday about low or mid-range saws with a good
set of jigs can be passible for quite a lot of work.
I have considered a lathe, but honestly I don't have the space and I'd
rather get reasonably decent at other aspects of this hobby before
investing the time and money into that side. I've used a lathe a few
times in the past and I enjoy it, but it takes far more effort to learn
to do well (in my opinion).
I'm assuming the other parts of your post were made in humour so I'll
just leave them alone.
bkr
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:47:00 GMT, "J&KCopeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Go to Sears
>Get a credit card.
>Go to the tool department.
>Charge that card to the hilt.
>
>By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
>Worn out some tools
>Broken other tools
>Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
>Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
>where which cheap is just fine.....
>
>Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
>
>James.....
>
>
ROTFLMAO.......
Sounds like the exact method I used in the Mid 60's when I got into
this hobby.... That Plastic Sears Money taught me a few things
Bob Griffiths
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
>situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure what
>is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the moment.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but here is the truth. You have
enough tools, you don't need to buy anymore. If you don't know that
you need it, you don't need it. If you're happy with how your coffee
table turned out then at this point the best way to allocate a limited
budget is toward more wood to make stuff with. Have fun. Then when
you run into situations where you find yourself running into the
limitations of the tools you have then it's time to think about
upgrading what you have to something more capable.
>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw
This would be first on my list to upgrade. I have one, and it needs
to die.
>and an 8" (not sure if that's right
>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw
Your dining table project is likely going to push this to its limits,
but upgrading it is a want not a need.
>and was wondering what you
>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
>between a 10" miter saw,
Helpful for making crosscuts, especially when you have a small table
saw, but you don't need one.
>10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
>me at this point)
There are a surprising amount of times you'd like to make a straight
hole in something. Quite a few of them it's *really* bad if it isn't
straight.
>or an 18" scroll saw.
Could be useful for some of the smaller projects you have on your
list, but overlaps your band saw in capability.
>These are the ones I have a
>use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
>order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
>limited cash availability?
Don't buy tools for perceived future needs. Soon enough you'll have
more stuff on your wishlist than you could ever actually buy.
-Leuf
Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks for any input you folks may have.
>
>
> Stop buying tools. Spend your money on timber instead.
>
> Make things. Make a list of things to make. Make things off this
> list, and if you can't make one because you don't have a particular
> tool, then make something else off the list instead.
> Goddard and Townsend didn't have one. You don't need one either. The
> only time this doesn't apply is when it's a replacement for cheap
> apprentice labour, which they did have and you don't. Or rare earth
> magnets.
Thanks for the advice. I guess the consensus is build more stuff until
you absolutely can't live without a particular tool. That is honestly
what I was thinking until I actually started getting a couple of the
power tools that have made my life much easier. I've always been of the
mind that if people could build this stuff 150 years ago with hand
tools, I must be able to do /something/ with the small selection of
tools at my disposal. Thanks for reaffirming that.
By the way, this was some funny stuff. Hole-r-izer...that's brilliant.
bkr
J&KCopeland wrote:
> Go to Sears
> Get a credit card.
> Go to the tool department.
> Charge that card to the hilt.
>
> By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
> Worn out some tools
> Broken other tools
> Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
> Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
> where which cheap is just fine.....
>
> Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
>
> James.....
>
Ah, no, thanks. I don't use credit cards for anything and the Sears
near me doesn't seem to have a good selection of power tools of the kind
I'm looking for.
bkr
Go to Sears
Get a credit card.
Go to the tool department.
Charge that card to the hilt.
By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
Worn out some tools
Broken other tools
Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
where which cheap is just fine.....
Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
James.....
"bkr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
> situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure what is
> most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the moment.
>
> I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
> but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
> wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
> between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to me
> at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a use for
> (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what order would
> you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and limited cash
> availability?
>
> I've built a maple coffee table and my next big project is a Cherry dining
> table with leaf. I'm currently working on a lot of small projects though,
> including some beer steins for friends (like you see at those rennaissance
> festivals), clocks for my daughter and some friends, cutting boards, wine
> racks, a couple of decorative and utility boxes, and a photo album cover
> for a wedding gift (much inlay work...fun stuff).
>
> I have a circular saw, belt sander, ROS, skill saw, a couple of drills, a
> router attachment for my dremel, which is suiting me reasonably well for
> now (will definitely be getting a router eventually though) and some hand
> tools including various saws, chisels, planes etc.
>
> So after all that, are there any recommendations for tools I might find
> very useful (limited space availability) but haven't mentioned? I
> considered a planer, but honestly don't expect much need for one at this
> point.
>
> Thanks for any input you folks may have.
>
> bkr
Ray wrote:
> I would upgrade the TS to a 10" first. It is a lot of money but well
> worth it. I started with a Crapsman direct drive table top saw and
> when it finally broke (13 months) I upgraded to a Jet contractor saw.
> A bigger saw will give you much more flexibility and accuracy. I would
> even consider buying a used TS. They are simple machines with few
> moving parts, if everything is straight and the bearings are good the
> most you have to worry about is the motor.
>
> I have a TS, router, planer (freebie), jigsaw, plate joiner, and a
> rotozip (piece of junk). I'm not sure what to get next, I'm torn
> between: bandsaw, drill press or a joiner (can't get it right on the
> router table). I'm guessing after 2 or 3 more projects I'll decide,
> but I'm leaning toward the drill press.
>
> I wouldn't buy 'cheap' tools. After the Crapsman TS and the rotozip, I
> read a lot and go to the Borg and get a feel for the tools and buy the
> best I can afford. You can also rent tools cheaply and test drive
> them...
>
Oh yeah, I did consider the 10" table saw, but I got the Makita for free
(brand new) from a friend and figure with the 8" I could buy something
different for now and then upgrade to the 10" or maybe a 14" when I have
more space and the 8" is dead.
bkr
"bkr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J&KCopeland wrote:
>> "bkr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>J&KCopeland wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Go to Sears
>>>>Get a credit card.
>>>>Go to the tool department.
>>>>Charge that card to the hilt.
>>>>
>>>>By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
>>>>Worn out some tools
>>>>Broken other tools
>>>>Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
>>>>Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and
>>>>some where which cheap is just fine.....
>>>>
>>>>Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
>>>>
>>>>James.....
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ah, no, thanks. I don't use credit cards for anything and the Sears near
>>>me doesn't seem to have a good selection of power tools of the kind I'm
>>>looking for.
>>>
>>>bkr
>>
>>
>> Okay...then...
>>
>> Buy one of the larger mechanics tool sets. I don't care what you do in
>> life, you're going to use tools from that set from time to time.
>> Save yourself some grief and buy a mid-range tool box to hold those
>> tools. Keep the tools in the tool box. Soundly admonish any spouse or
>> offspring that would dare to take a tool from that box and not put it
>> back. (BTW, Craftsman mechanics tools are perfectly acceptable for the
>> average non-mechanic).
>>
>> Now buy the basics. Hammers, handsaws, circular saw, and perhaps a
>> reciprocating saw.
>> Buy an assortment of GOOD hammers in various weights. (I prefer
>> fiberglass handles, but my best 13 oz trim hammer is wood-handled Plumb
>> made in the 30's) Get use to the idea of buying "the basics" for the
>> rest of your life.
>>
>> Buy a 10" table saw. If you can afford it, buy a mid-range cabinet saw.
>> You'll probably never have to buy another one.
>> (Consider the need for portability. If you don't need to move it from
>> job to job, there is no reason to sacrifice any feature for portability)
>> Buy one of the better fences for that saw.
>>
>> But the best blades you can afford. Figure out where you're going to get
>> the blades sharpened. (This is important. Good blades are expensive.
>> However, good blades that are dull are pretty close to worthless)
>>
>> Buy several books dedicated to making jigs. Do not try to reinvent the
>> wheel, rather use the innovativeness of other, wiser people to make you
>> life easier. Search the internet diligently and make sure you save any
>> gems to be used at a later time. Invest some time in 19th Century tool
>> techniques. Just remember that they were every bit as lazy as you are.
>> And very few of them found virtue in doing something the hard way.
>>
>> Locate a supplier for Johnson's Paste Wax. It has a thousand uses from
>> protecting wood to protecting your table saw top.
>>
>> *****If you choose the neader path, then start buying planes, and the
>> rest of this post is probably worthless to you.
>>
>> Buy a 6" jointer (You can put this off for a while, but when you do get
>> one, you're going to wonder why you waited so long.)
>>
>> Now you can start to diversify depending on your preferences.
>>
>> Buy clamps. (Create a tradition that for all birthdays, anniversaries
>> and holidays, that the present of choice for you are clamps. Provide
>> suggestion lists of which clamps.)
>>
>> Buy a good drill press (Surprising to me, I probably use that drill press
>> with as much frequency as any tool in the shop)
>> Buy a good bandsaw (I don't use mine all that much, but that's just me.)
>> Buy a good compound miter saw (Personally, I'm not all that enamored
>> with those sliding miter saws. But, I use the miter saw as much as the
>> table saw.)
>>
>> Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a
>> lathe, but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
>>
>> Buy a decent air compressor.
>>
>> Start buying routers Buy big brutes, plunge and fixed base, and buy
>> small ones (laminate trimmers)
>> Buy decent router bits. Do not buy the sets. You'll never use half the
>> bits in a big set.
>>
>> Buy one of the better dovetail kits.
>> Buy one of the better dado sets
>>
>> Buy assorted nail guns, including a framing nailer, a finish nailer and a
>> brad nailer. (BTW, so far my two Craftsman nail guns have performed as
>> well as my Porter Cable and Paslode)
>>
>> It won't take very many years before you can come back and go through the
>> post, point by point and say, "This was bullshit, and this was a good
>> suggestion."
>>
>> James...
>>
>>
>
> James, thanks for the advice. I was looking in the bookstore yesterday
> for woodworking books. Any suggestions for books on jigs? I noticed a
> couple other comments yesterday about low or mid-range saws with a good
> set of jigs can be passible for quite a lot of work.
Start with the internet. Go to google and input "woodworking jigs". There
will be enough to keep you going for quite a while.
There is a little mag called "Shop Notes" that comes out every month. I buy
it at the grocery story. It's tiny, but generally, every issue has
worthwhile suggestion(s). Bob Wearing's *Router Tips and Techniques* is
excellent.
http://www.shopnotes.com/
Check out the video of the router jig. That's probably next.....
>
> I have considered a lathe, but honestly I don't have the space and I'd
> rather get reasonably decent at other aspects of this hobby before
> investing the time and money into that side. I've used a lathe a few
> times in the past and I enjoy it, but it takes far more effort to learn to
> do well (in my opinion).
Amen.
>
> I'm assuming the other parts of your post were made in humour so I'll just
> leave them alone.
"Humour" ???? Are you British? (American's spell it "Humor") Just you
wait (Grinning) Come back in several years and we'll see what's humorous
and what isn't.
>
>
> bkr
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Thanks for any input you folks may have.
Stop buying tools. Spend your money on timber instead.
Make things. Make a list of things to make. Make things off this
list, and if you can't make one because you don't have a particular
tool, then make something else off the list instead.
If you can't make _anything_ on your list because you're mising one
tool, and it's under $100, and it's not electric, and it has existed
for more than 30 years, then give up and go to bed. If you _still_
need it in the morning, then think about maybe getting it. Do
something else in the meantime.
If a week later you still wake up thinking that you really need that
grockle flanger, then buy one. Buy either a good modern version of
it, or a usable old one. Never buy one in either Evil Cool Black
Plastic (California's assault rifle ban does make some sense for
woodworking tools), polished silver or dayglo orange plastic (dayglo
is allowed for tape measures, but nothing else or you'll never find
your tape measure), or one that has stripes on it. Never buy one that
has "Pro" in the model name. Never buy one that _has_ a "model name".
If your grandfather couldn't have gone into a toolshop and bought one
by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a
drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer".
Never buy a tool that could get itself a bit-part in a Japanese
giant-robot animation.
You do not need any tool with its capacity rated in "millions".
They're lying.
Goddard and Townsend didn't have one. You don't need one either. The
only time this doesn't apply is when it's a replacement for cheap
apprentice labour, which they did have and you don't. Or rare earth
magnets.
--
Smert' spamionam
Silvan wrote:
> bkr wrote:
>
>
>>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
>>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
>>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
>>between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
>>me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
>>use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
>>order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
>>limited cash availability?
>
>
> It really depends on what tickles your fancy. As I suggested in a response
> to another post, a miter sled can work wonders. It is still comparatively
> hard to cut angles on long stock on a little saw, or on any table saw, even
> with all the sleds, hold-downs and other jiggery in the world. If you're
> doing a lot of angle cutting on stock 4' long or more a miter saw would
> probably become your bestest friend in a jiffy.
>
> My drill press is the machine of a thousand uses. I use it to put holes in
> things. Big holes, little holes, through holes, stopped holes, multiple
> holes, rows of holes. The holes always come out clean, and they're always
> perpendicular to the surface of the work if I want them to be. I don't
> even have any sanding or rosette cutting attachments or other whatnots for
> the thing. Just a variety of drilling and boring bits. My drill press
> sees tons of use because I obviously have much need in life for a multitude
> of controlled holes. Countersunk screws, recessed bolt holes for jigs,
> dowel holes, and a gazillion other holes. If you don't have much need for
> holes, then a drill press isn't a lot of good to you. It's quite possible
> to do without one with a portable electric drill and some creativity. In
> fact, you need both anyway. I use my portable drill almost as much as my
> DP because sometimes it's necessary to take the drill to the work instead
> of the other way around.
>
> My scrollsaw is almost completely useless to me. I just haven't been
> inspired to do much of anything with it at all. Other people spend the
> vast majority of their shop time scrolling away, and those folks would look
> at me like a weirdo for taking the position that those little machines are
> virtually useless. I think to some extent it's because I got a crappy one
> that doesn't work very well.
>
> So what I'm getting at ultimately is that it really depends on you. I can't
> tell you which machine you will find most useful for doing a coffee table
> because I've never built a coffee table. What will you do for your next
> project? Well, that largely depends on which machine you buy, doesn't
> it? :)
>
> In the end, it's about you, how you work, what you want to do, and what
> trades you're willing to make. For example, as I also mentioned in that
> other message, I don't have a planer. I can do without it using hand
> planes, but hand planes are a big can o' worms, and almost a hobby unto
> themselves. You can do without lots of things. I find the most annoying
> things to do without are a good, somewhat respectable sized table saw, and
> a floor-standing drill press. Those two would be the last to go in my
> shop, although I suppose the portable electric drill would be the absolute
> dead last thing to go. So that must be my favorite machine.
>
> So I guess basically if I were you, I'd dump that 8" Makita for a decent
> contractor's saw and start there. But I'm not you.
>
Thanks for the advice...I originally was going to get nothing smaller
than a 10" TS but this fell in my lap from a friend who won it and has
no interest in woodwork. I figured I could keep it until it dies and
then upgrade in size. I have access to a 10" and 14" anyway, so if I
absolutely need a bigger one I can get to it, with only a little
pre-planning.
I was expecting more people to give the answer "it depends" because
honestly that's the situation most of the time. I just don't have
enough experience to know all the versatility of each tool which is what
I was hoping to hear about. I'm actually moved more to get the drill
press now, since it doesn't take up as much space as some others and I
can see a use for making mortises and such which I do quite a bit of
(with a router bit on a dremel right now, which I don't much like.)
Thanks again,
bkr
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 03:39:39 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>J&KCopeland wrote:
>
>> Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a lathe,
>> but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
>
>Serious mucho $$$$$$$ here. It really is a world unto itself. It has so
>little in common with "flatwood" that the two can hardly both live together
>under the name "woodworking." Which is why they call themselves turners,
>not woodworkers, and keep their $7,000 lathes and $250 bowl gouges over on
>the other newsgroup. :)
>
======================
I have had a Cheap Sears Lathe since the mid 60's and for just..
plain.. relaxing... fun... it was well worth them money...
I build furniture as a hobby...BUT between projects when I am in one
of my lost, funky, what the hell am I going to get into today, moods I
find that I can fire up the lathe and have a blast... To me it is a
tool ...that I use as a toy...
I am not a "turner" for sure... BUT I do not have any other machine in
my shop that I use as a toy to play with..on days that I feel like
being a little boy again... lol
Bob Griffiths.
In article <[email protected]>,
bkr <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipperized]
> I could buy something
> different for now and then upgrade to the 10" or maybe a 14" when I have
> more space and the 8" is dead
*S* You may want to price 14" blades first.
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:47:00 GMT, "J&KCopeland" <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Go to Sears
>Get a credit card.
>Go to the tool department.
>Charge that card to the hilt.
>
>By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
>Worn out some tools
>Broken other tools
>Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
>Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
>where which cheap is just fine.....
>
>Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
Priceless! The only problem is that each person who does this has
helped the Searz Monster stay alive yet another year to sucker some
thousands of other folks out of their hard-earned money.
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
>between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
>me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a
>use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
>order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
>limited cash availability?
Of the three you mention, my vote would be for the miter saw. But the
drill press is awfully handy as well- just make sure that you get a
big enough drill press for your needs- the wife bought me mine, and
while it works well, it won't accept a mortising attachment and leaves
me wishing for a few extra inches of clearence fairly often.
If I were to just pick one from what you've said, though, I'd go for a
decent (or even a cheap POS) router. The number one reason for I'd
suggest that over any of the others is that you'll be able to make
dadoes and rebates with it- something you probably can't do with a 8"
table saw (my guess is that the arbor is too short for a dado stack,
though Ryobi may have done better than Delta in that regard). and
those are some awfully useful joints for all sorts of projects. Once
you've got one, I'm sure you'll discover that it's one of the most
versatile tools you have.
The other suggestion would be a biscut cutter- I don't have one, but
I've used them in the past, and they are really very nice for jointing
tabletops. You can do it with butt joints or dowels, but the biscut
cutter makes things a little easier.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On 18 Jan 2005 15:44:29 GMT, [email protected] (DarylRos) wrote:
>Never overlook a jointer, even a small 4" one. Without flat square stock, you
>wil lalwaus have trouble.
>
>What kind of work do you do, what kind of budget?
=============
Have not followed this thread..
I only semi agree with you....
My 1st Joiner was a little 4 in POS....which I purchased for the very
reason you gave,,,,BUT it really was completely useless... may have
been sufficient if I only made birdhouses...
I would tell anyone to just wait until the budget could handle a 6"
one...
Bob
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:42:50 -0500, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> bkr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>[snipperized]
>> I could buy something
>> different for now and then upgrade to the 10" or maybe a 14" when I have
>> more space and the 8" is dead
>
>
>*S* You may want to price 14" blades first.
or even good 12" blades.. *groan*
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Ray wrote:
> I would upgrade the TS to a 10" first. It is a lot of money but well
> worth it. I started with a Crapsman direct drive table top saw and
> when it finally broke (13 months) I upgraded to a Jet contractor saw.
> A bigger saw will give you much more flexibility and accuracy. I would
> even consider buying a used TS. They are simple machines with few
> moving parts, if everything is straight and the bearings are good the
> most you have to worry about is the motor.
>
> I have a TS, router, planer (freebie), jigsaw, plate joiner, and a
> rotozip (piece of junk). I'm not sure what to get next, I'm torn
> between: bandsaw, drill press or a joiner (can't get it right on the
> router table). I'm guessing after 2 or 3 more projects I'll decide,
> but I'm leaning toward the drill press.
>
> I wouldn't buy 'cheap' tools. After the Crapsman TS and the rotozip, I
> read a lot and go to the Borg and get a feel for the tools and buy the
> best I can afford. You can also rent tools cheaply and test drive
> them...
>
Actually I would have guessed you'd want the joiner from teh sounds of
it, but drill presses are certainly handy. I don't do many projects
where I need one at this point, but I can see future projects where I
will, which is why it's in my list.
Right now, the cheap tools are all that I can afford, so they'll have to
do. I'm hoping that I'll be able to sell a few pieces in the near
future (already have one person asking me to build them a couple of
things) so that will justify buying better tools. Right now, though, I
need the tools to build the pieces. Maybe I'll try renting a couple of
the better tools to do the projects and then use the money to buy them.
bkr
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 01:47:02 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Never buy one that
>has "Pro" in the model name. Never buy one that _has_ a "model name".
>If your grandfather couldn't have gone into a toolshop and bought one
>by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a
>drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer".
Seems I was right about that drill naming business. The B&D "Firestorm"
drill is living up to its name.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02234.html
(there's one smoking away over in uk.d-i-y)
Leuf wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The
>>situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure what
>>is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the moment.
>
>
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but here is the truth. You have
> enough tools, you don't need to buy anymore. If you don't know that
> you need it, you don't need it. If you're happy with how your coffee
> table turned out then at this point the best way to allocate a limited
> budget is toward more wood to make stuff with. Have fun. Then when
> you run into situations where you find yourself running into the
> limitations of the tools you have then it's time to think about
> upgrading what you have to something more capable.
>
>
>>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw
>
>
> This would be first on my list to upgrade. I have one, and it needs
> to die.
>
>
>>and an 8" (not sure if that's right
>>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw
>
>
> Your dining table project is likely going to push this to its limits,
> but upgrading it is a want not a need.
>
>
>>and was wondering what you
>>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide
>>between a 10" miter saw,
>
>
> Helpful for making crosscuts, especially when you have a small table
> saw, but you don't need one.
>
>
>>10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to
>>me at this point)
>
>
> There are a surprising amount of times you'd like to make a straight
> hole in something. Quite a few of them it's *really* bad if it isn't
> straight.
>
>
>>or an 18" scroll saw.
>
>
> Could be useful for some of the smaller projects you have on your
> list, but overlaps your band saw in capability.
>
>
>>These are the ones I have a
>>use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what
>>order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and
>>limited cash availability?
>
>
> Don't buy tools for perceived future needs. Soon enough you'll have
> more stuff on your wishlist than you could ever actually buy.
>
>
> -Leuf
Thanks for the advice. I actually have a specific project that I think
the scroll saw will be necessary, but likely I won't buy it until I
actually start the project. Your comments about using the money are
good I think, though I've already factored the wood cost into all of the
projects and have a little extra for a new tool...hence my dilemma.
Perhaps I'll wait a bit longer and save up for some better tools.
bkr
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:29:42 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
wrote:
>what I was thinking until I actually started getting a couple of the
>power tools that have made my life much easier.
Yes, power tools will make your life easier. You should have plenty of
them, particularly a good table saw for turning big wood into small
wood (for that's hard going by hand). "Plenty" is a pretty small
number though. It's all too easy to get caught into the Big Shed
marketing plans that tell you you just can't do anything without
buying their new plastic gadget.
Most of us could use some better tools. Few of us really need more new
ones. If you have to shop, get something you really need, and get the
best one you can.
"bkr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J&KCopeland wrote:
>
>> Go to Sears
>> Get a credit card.
>> Go to the tool department.
>> Charge that card to the hilt.
>>
>> By the time you've paid that card off, you will have...
>> Worn out some tools
>> Broken other tools
>> Thrown some tools away because they are worthless
>> Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some
>> where which cheap is just fine.....
>>
>> Learned to NEVER get another credit card.
>>
>> James.....
>>
>
> Ah, no, thanks. I don't use credit cards for anything and the Sears near
> me doesn't seem to have a good selection of power tools of the kind I'm
> looking for.
>
> bkr
Okay...then...
Buy one of the larger mechanics tool sets. I don't care what you do in
life, you're going to use tools from that set from time to time.
Save yourself some grief and buy a mid-range tool box to hold those tools.
Keep the tools in the tool box. Soundly admonish any spouse or offspring
that would dare to take a tool from that box and not put it back. (BTW,
Craftsman mechanics tools are perfectly acceptable for the average
non-mechanic).
Now buy the basics. Hammers, handsaws, circular saw, and perhaps a
reciprocating saw.
Buy an assortment of GOOD hammers in various weights. (I prefer fiberglass
handles, but my best 13 oz trim hammer is wood-handled Plumb made in the
30's) Get use to the idea of buying "the basics" for the rest of your life.
Buy a 10" table saw. If you can afford it, buy a mid-range cabinet saw.
You'll probably never have to buy another one.
(Consider the need for portability. If you don't need to move it from job
to job, there is no reason to sacrifice any feature for portability)
Buy one of the better fences for that saw.
But the best blades you can afford. Figure out where you're going to get
the blades sharpened. (This is important. Good blades are expensive.
However, good blades that are dull are pretty close to worthless)
Buy several books dedicated to making jigs. Do not try to reinvent the
wheel, rather use the innovativeness of other, wiser people to make you life
easier. Search the internet diligently and make sure you save any gems to
be used at a later time. Invest some time in 19th Century tool techniques.
Just remember that they were every bit as lazy as you are. And very few of
them found virtue in doing something the hard way.
Locate a supplier for Johnson's Paste Wax. It has a thousand uses from
protecting wood to protecting your table saw top.
*****If you choose the neader path, then start buying planes, and the rest
of this post is probably worthless to you.
Buy a 6" jointer (You can put this off for a while, but when you do get
one, you're going to wonder why you waited so long.)
Now you can start to diversify depending on your preferences.
Buy clamps. (Create a tradition that for all birthdays, anniversaries and
holidays, that the present of choice for you are clamps. Provide suggestion
lists of which clamps.)
Buy a good drill press (Surprising to me, I probably use that drill press
with as much frequency as any tool in the shop)
Buy a good bandsaw (I don't use mine all that much, but that's just me.)
Buy a good compound miter saw (Personally, I'm not all that enamored with
those sliding miter saws. But, I use the miter saw as much as the table
saw.)
Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a lathe,
but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
Buy a decent air compressor.
Start buying routers Buy big brutes, plunge and fixed base, and buy small
ones (laminate trimmers)
Buy decent router bits. Do not buy the sets. You'll never use half the
bits in a big set.
Buy one of the better dovetail kits.
Buy one of the better dado sets
Buy assorted nail guns, including a framing nailer, a finish nailer and a
brad nailer. (BTW, so far my two Craftsman nail guns have performed as well
as my Porter Cable and Paslode)
It won't take very many years before you can come back and go through the
post, point by point and say, "This was bullshit, and this was a good
suggestion."
James...
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:55:49 -0500, bkr <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for any input you folks may have.
>
> Stop buying tools. Spend your money on timber instead.
>
> Make things. Make a list of things to make. Make things off this
> list, and if you can't make one because you don't have a particular
> tool, then make something else off the list instead.
>
> If you can't make _anything_ on your list because you're mising one
> tool, and it's under $100, and it's not electric, and it has existed
> for more than 30 years, then give up and go to bed. If you _still_
> need it in the morning, then think about maybe getting it. Do
> something else in the meantime.
>
> If a week later you still wake up thinking that you really need that
> grockle flanger, then buy one. Buy either a good modern version of
> it, or a usable old one. Never buy one in either Evil Cool Black
> Plastic (California's assault rifle ban does make some sense for
> woodworking tools), polished silver or dayglo orange plastic (dayglo
> is allowed for tape measures, but nothing else or you'll never find
> your tape measure), or one that has stripes on it. Never buy one that
> has "Pro" in the model name. Never buy one that _has_ a "model name".
> If your grandfather couldn't have gone into a toolshop and bought one
> by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a
> drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer".
> Never buy a tool that could get itself a bit-part in a Japanese
> giant-robot animation.
>
> You do not need any tool with its capacity rated in "millions".
> They're lying.
>
> Goddard and Townsend didn't have one. You don't need one either. The
> only time this doesn't apply is when it's a replacement for cheap
> apprentice labour, which they did have and you don't. Or rare earth
> magnets.
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
J&KCopeland wrote:
> Start with the internet. Go to google and input "woodworking jigs". There
> will be enough to keep you going for quite a while.
>
> There is a little mag called "Shop Notes" that comes out every month. I buy
> it at the grocery story. It's tiny, but generally, every issue has
> worthwhile suggestion(s). Bob Wearing's *Router Tips and Techniques* is
> excellent.
>
> http://www.shopnotes.com/
>
> Check out the video of the router jig. That's probably next.....
>
>>I have considered a lathe, but honestly I don't have the space and I'd
>>rather get reasonably decent at other aspects of this hobby before
>>investing the time and money into that side. I've used a lathe a few
>>times in the past and I enjoy it, but it takes far more effort to learn to
>>do well (in my opinion).
>
>
> Amen.
>
>>I'm assuming the other parts of your post were made in humour so I'll just
>>leave them alone.
>
>
> "Humour" ???? Are you British? (American's spell it "Humor") Just you
> wait (Grinning) Come back in several years and we'll see what's humorous
> and what isn't.
>
>
>>
>>bkr
>
>
>
Actually I'm American, but for some reason occasionally spell colour and
humour like a Brit...generally I don't even notice and it depends on my
leisure reading of the moment I think.
Thanks for the link to the shopnotes.
bkr
[email protected]> wrote:
>I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right
>but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you
>wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool.
<snip>
A decent router package (I have the older PC690 kit) which will be about
$200 and a decent saber saw (I have the Bosch) will be about $150 would
be my choices.
HTH
Lew