I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
"RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
Best regards,
Tom C.
Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
digress.
Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
DeWalt? Porter Cable?
Pains me to buy the China stuff.
On 5 May 2005 14:30:49 -0700, the inscrutable "Charlie Self"
<[email protected]> spake:
>
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> She doesn't know much, but she is absolutely of what she thinks she
>> knows.
>
>And I was certain I'd written "sure" after "absolutely".
Like, get one of these special signs for her room, Charlie:
"Teens: LEAVE HOME NOW, WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!"
--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik
VOTE LIBERTARIAN OR YOU WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
On Tue, 3 May 2005 21:41:04 -0500, Hax Planx
<[email protected]> wrote:
> In England, some
>people actually drink Budweiser. That about floored me when I heard
>that.
I actually kinda like Budweiser, but it gives me a headache that feels
like a mule kicked me the next day, so I drink Bass instead (it's a
good trade with the Brits who are drinking Buds.)
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
I'm a free-market person and while it might be
hard to accept the export of jobs overseas look at
this way.
Everyone is trying to save money. Including companies.
In order to compete, companies have to continually
stay on top of price curve in order to stay in business.
Otherwise someone will come in with an "as good"
product at a cheaper price point and put them out of
business. That said, Thomas Friedman in his
latest series of articles and in his latest book "The World
is Flat", gets it right when said that the way Americans
compete in this global free market is to offer employers
something they can't buy elsewhere. .
(I think a wonderful case in point is Bridge City
Tools - they produce some fantastic tools and
I think that it would be hard for them to ship
jobs overseas - couldn't get the quality. At least
not yet!)
We need to fix up our educational systems, our trade schools, etc. This
is a crisis in the making and it will
bit us in a shorter time then the so-called SS problems
that the current president is so fixated on.
The big benefit I see with India/China and elsewhere
making our products is that the money that
the employees get there is helping to increase the
middle class in those countries. It also helps
to foster peace by giving those people a vested
interest in the world economy.
(Imagine if the disaffected Muslims in Iran/Iraq and
elsewhere had a stake in gainful employement, would
the terriorist groups have a harder recruiting job? I'd
think so. Doesn' t mean that they won't find fanatics, but
if there was something they could see happening for
their families, I'd think the be relucant to join a group
that espouses death).
So, buy US, if you can, if not buy locally, if not
then buy what you can afford.
MJ Wallace
Just bought a Milwaukee circ saw, made in Mexico...too early to tell on
quality.
Just bought a Milwaukee vise, made in USA. Also a piece of shit. Never
seen quality that bad in all my days. Taking it back this weekend.
Apparently this was the last one they made, too, because I can't find vises
offered for sale anywhere on Milwaukee's website.
Must have been too embarassed after making this crap.
You just can't believe how bad this vise is.
"Vijay Kumar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
>> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
>>
>> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
>>
>> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
>> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
>> Best regards,
>> Tom C.
>> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
>>
>> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
>> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
>> digress.
>>
>> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
>> DeWalt? Porter Cable? Pains me to buy the China stuff.
>>
> Dewalt, Porter Cable majority of their stuff is US made. Milwaukee too
> although the parent is in Hong Kong.
I just had a problem with a Makita cordless drill. The reverse switch
would no longer function. I sent it out to a factory authorized repair
shop that is here in the states. They did repair it but now it will go
forward when in reverse position and reverse when in the forward
position.
What does that say about the quality of the US worker??
You imply that unions are a smaller influence in the US and are on the
decline. Then you say that the US ranks high in productivity and GDP.
Could there be a connection: weaker unions more productivity?
A lot of the productivity gains are due to the penetration of better
technology, not better workers.
Our education system is 90% run by teacher's unions and 10% run by
government. The government asically just sends money. Then when the
government and the citizenry demand some accountability (as the No
Child Left behind program tries to introduce), the teachers sabotage it
instead of embracing it. In fact, the whole reason it was introduce is
because the teaching establishment has failed misreably and they think
only they can fix it.
Regarding our work ethic -- I keep hearing that the illegal immigrants
come here to do work Americans won't do. Is that work ethic?
Never Enough Money wrote:
>
> Regarding our work ethic -- I keep hearing that the illegal
immigrants
> come here to do work Americans won't do. Is that work ethic?
For some. Do you do, or want to do, stoop labor for barely over minimum
wage? If you have never done that kind of labor, you don't know what
you're missing (fortunately). Or would you like to work as a maid,
putting in a dozen hours a day six or more days a week? People take
those kinds of jobs, normally, only in the hope they can advance from
them. The current illegal immigrant set up locks the illegals into that
kind of work with little or no chance at advance. That needs changing.
We won't get into why a minimum wage should not exist (that'd be a
whole new spirited thread....
Given that there is one, why would a person in need not work the
minimum wage and take two jobs if necessary? Oh, is it because they can
live off of welfare - the lazy way out?
Are you saying we need a system where illegals can advance? That is BS.
They broke the law and the rule of law is important for society.
Never Enough Money wrote:
> We won't get into why a minimum wage should not exist (that'd be a
> whole new spirited thread....
>
> Given that there is one, why would a person in need not work the
> minimum wage and take two jobs if necessary? Oh, is it because they
can
> live off of welfare - the lazy way out?
>
> Are you saying we need a system where illegals can advance? That is
BS.
> They broke the law and the rule of law is important for society.
Wouldn't it be simpler to make it possible for illegals to get into the
country legally as long as work was available that no one else would
do? Let the beneficiaries (direct) of illegal labor spend some money
sending recruiters to wherever these people come from, paying for safe
transport, bringing them into clean and decent conditions...aw, shit,
though, we can't do that. Price of green beans will go up.
Work two minimum wage jobs? I've known those who do it. It is rough,
especially if they have kids to raise, but it can be done. What the
hell. Put in 80 hours or more a week flipping burgers so your local Big
Mac purveyor can clog some more arteries in the process of increasing
the value of his investment.
Prometheus wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 12:06:31 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> On a related issue- anyone notice the changes in the libraries in the
> past ten years or so? If you haven't, try comparing the volume of
> books with "for dummies" on the cover with the volume of books that
> comprised a classical education. My local library has removed Eucid,
> Newton, Aristotle, Chaucer, the collected works of the Nobel Prize
> winners, Darwin and several others from the stacks to make room for
> Cliff's Notes and other bullshit. When I asked about it, the
> librarian shrugged and said no one wanted them anyone. It damn near
> made me cry.
>
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On a related note, ask any junior or high school student for a fast
historical synopsis of the years since Pearl Harbor. Or ask who Winston
Churchill was. Or ask about...ah, shit. Almost anything that didn't
happen on American Idol or Survivor in the last month.
It WILL make you cry.
The choice is buy as local as possible. The job your saving may
(strike that) WILL be your own. Think of whatever it is that your
employer manufactures. I don't care if it is widgets to rockets.
There are any number of sub developed nations who can build it cheaper
if YOU are willing to buy from them. Are you willing to ship your
money offshore just to save $4.99 on that pair of pliers. Are you
going to encourage the customers of the products YOU make to save a
buck or two by buying the foreign version of whatever it is you do for
a living...?
Just noticed your tag line, "Never Enough Money". If you ever want to
do your part in turning that around buying the cheapest widget on the
shelf isn't a real great start.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:
>I've got a bunch of Porter Cable stuff that ranges in age from a few weeks
>to about 18 years... I don't recall seeing anything but Made in USA on it
>(course that could be the box that was made in the USA. ;-)).
I have a P-C cordless drill I bought in early 2001. Made in Taiwan. They
make some stuff in the USA, but not cordless.
That damn drill is dying already and I didn't use it all that much. There
is a distinct ozone smell every time the trigger is touched. I took it
apart and all the internals are one big cartridge. You basically buy a
new drill if something breaks.
Brian Elfert
[email protected] writes:
>So, buy US, if you can, if not buy locally, if not
>then buy what you can afford.
In some cases, you simply can't find new stuff made in the USA anymore
without looking long and hard. There are no drill presses made in the USA
expcet some really expensive Powermatics that I know of. General does
maek one in Canada that is still $850 or more, and I did buy one a few
years back.
I'm not going to go to five different stores looking for something like
kitchen measruing cups made in the USA. I might go to five different
stores looking for a tool made in the USA.
Brian Elfert
[email protected] writes:
>The choice is buy as local as possible. The job your saving may
>(strike that) WILL be your own. Think of whatever it is that your
>employer manufactures. I don't care if it is widgets to rockets.
>There are any number of sub developed nations who can build it cheaper
>if YOU are willing to buy from them. Are you willing to ship your
I want to see any third world country print a daily newspaper, deliver it
within three to four hours, and do it for less money.
If the newspaper could even be air freighted in time, the delivery costs
would exceed the cost of printing here in the USA.
Brian Elfert
On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:03:02 GMT, Vijay Kumar <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
>> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
>>
>> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
>>
>> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
>> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
>> Best regards,
>> Tom C.
>> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
>>
>> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
>> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
>> digress.
>>
>> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
>> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>>
>> Pains me to buy the China stuff.
>>
>Dewalt, Porter Cable majority of their stuff is US made. Milwaukee too
>although the parent is in Hong Kong.
Dremel, Ellis and Miller are also US made. Also made in the US:
Shop-vac (according to what I found), Campbell Hausfeld, Tecumseh,
S-K Tools, and a constantly-dwindling pile of others. I've been
trying to get my hands on a good list of them for a while, but it
seems like someone is trying to keep it all secret. All I can find is
a bunch of BS from the AFL-CIO about how spiffy unions are when I try
and find a source for US manufacturers.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
If a company can get a tool built in China to the same standards for half
price then thats where they will shop. If the American worker cannot compete
then who is at fault?
As consumers, we all want the best for the least cost.
Look at what the Japanese did to the automobile industry by giving consumers
what they wanted at a price they were prepared to pay.
There is a lesson there so learn from it rather than complain about it.
Such is life.
Oldun
Robatoy wrote:
> I stand (sit) corrected.
> It's all 'down South' to me, a Kanuckistani. <G>
> You know.. warm, sometimes rainy, sometimes really frickin' windy?
> Having said that, I sure hope I did't start anything.
If ya weren't one of those brown-haired friendly people from the
GWN, I'd be wondering about what's beyond Damn Yankee. %-)
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Teens: LEAVE HOME NOW, WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!"
I'm embarrased to admit two things: (1) I now know I'll never know enough
and (2) I was damned near mid 30's before I came to that realization.
I think a good sign of intelligence is realizing just how stupid you,
yourself, are.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
I've got a bunch of Porter Cable stuff that ranges in age from a few weeks
to about 18 years... I don't recall seeing anything but Made in USA on it
(course that could be the box that was made in the USA. ;-)).
Seriously, PC is my preferred brand... a local service shop means I can get
any parts I loose, wear out or break. For example, the dust collection
canister from the random orbit sander didn't survive it's trip through the
dust collector's impeller... I was using the dust collector as a vacuum and
accidentally sucked up the canister. ;-)
John
Prometheus wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:03:02 GMT, Vijay Kumar <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
>>>standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
>>>Best regards,
>>>Tom C.
>>>Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
>>>DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>>>
>
>
> Dremel, Ellis and Miller are also US made. Also made in the US:
> Shop-vac (according to what I found), Campbell Hausfeld, Tecumseh,
> S-K Tools, and a constantly-dwindling pile of others. I've been
> trying to get my hands on a good list of them for a while, but it
> seems like someone is trying to keep it all secret. All I can find is
> a bunch of BS from the AFL-CIO about how spiffy unions are when I try
> and find a source for US manufacturers.
>
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Not only is "Shop-Vac" made in the USA, it says so on the box, unless
there is a Town in China named USA. :) but it is exported to Good ol'
OZ. I bought one just the other day from Bunnings for $98.99 AU. Thought
it was a fair price. The shed hasn't looked so clean in years ;).
All the best
John
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> My local library has removed Eucid,
> Newton, Aristotle, Chaucer, the collected works of the Nobel Prize
> winners, Darwin and several others from the stacks to make room for
> Cliff's Notes and other bullshit. When I asked about it, the
> librarian shrugged and said no one wanted them anyone. It damn near
> made me cry.
Maybe they be sought after more on a DVD? Sent to them via text messaging?
The problem with that is that "work that no one else will do" is only part
of the statement. The whole statement is work that no one else will do at
the low wage I'm willing to pay. Like the excuse used in the IT industry
for bringing in foreign workers and firing their American counterparts.
"nospambob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wasn't that called the "Bracero" (SP?) program about 60 years ago? It
> no longer exists.
>
> On 3 May 2005 14:15:11 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Wouldn't it be simpler to make it possible for illegals to get into the
> >country legally as long as work was available that no one else would
> >do?
>
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm a free-market person and while it might be
> hard to accept the export of jobs overseas look at
> this way.
>
> Everyone is trying to save money. Including companies.
> In order to compete, companies have to continually
> stay on top of price curve in order to stay in business.
> Otherwise someone will come in with an "as good"
> product at a cheaper price point and put them out of
> business. That said, Thomas Friedman in his
> latest series of articles and in his latest book "The World
> is Flat", gets it right when said that the way Americans
> compete in this global free market is to offer employers
> something they can't buy elsewhere. .
>
> (I think a wonderful case in point is Bridge City
> Tools - they produce some fantastic tools and
> I think that it would be hard for them to ship
> jobs overseas - couldn't get the quality. At least
> not yet!)
>
> We need to fix up our educational systems, our trade schools, etc. This
> is a crisis in the making and it will
> bit us in a shorter time then the so-called SS problems
> that the current president is so fixated on.
>
> The big benefit I see with India/China and elsewhere
> making our products is that the money that
> the employees get there is helping to increase the
> middle class in those countries. It also helps
> to foster peace by giving those people a vested
> interest in the world economy.
>
> (Imagine if the disaffected Muslims in Iran/Iraq and
> elsewhere had a stake in gainful employement, would
> the terriorist groups have a harder recruiting job? I'd
> think so. Doesn' t mean that they won't find fanatics, but
> if there was something they could see happening for
> their families, I'd think the be relucant to join a group
> that espouses death).
>
> So, buy US, if you can, if not buy locally, if not
> then buy what you can afford.
>
> MJ Wallace
>
Sorry to bust your Bridge City nostalgia. Their combination square
rules were made in India. I just picked up a closeout 12 inch rule at
the WW show for $14.95 with Bridge City markings and made in India. In
fact Manny (of Manny's ww) tells me that he buys from the same factory
that made some of Bridge City tool stuff.
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>I've got a bunch of Porter Cable stuff that ranges in age from a few weeks
>>to about 18 years... I don't recall seeing anything but Made in USA on it
>>(course that could be the box that was made in the USA. ;-)).
>
>
> I have a P-C cordless drill I bought in early 2001. Made in Taiwan. They
> make some stuff in the USA, but not cordless.
>
> That damn drill is dying already and I didn't use it all that much. There
> is a distinct ozone smell every time the trigger is touched. I took it
> apart and all the internals are one big cartridge. You basically buy a
> new drill if something breaks.
>
> Brian Elfert
Interesting... I don't have any cordless tools (unless you count hammers,
planes, etc.). All my portable power tools have "wires," as my son puts it.
(One day I pulled out my corded PC 3/8" drill and my son asked me what it
was. I told him it was a drill. He responded with "Oh, I never saw one with
a wire." Guess he's seen too many home improvement shows. ;-))
John
[email protected] says...
> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
>
> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
>
> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
> Best regards,
> Tom C.
> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
>
> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
> digress.
>
> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>
> Pains me to buy the China stuff.
I was looking at jigsaws the other day and it was fun to see where they
all were made. Top of the line Bosch: Switzerland, second tier Bosch:
USA, Milwaukee: Czech Republic, Hitachi: Ireland. I bought the Swiss
made Bosch, not because of where it was made, but because I liked it
best, mainly because it had the biggest base and I think that will pay
off for woodworking. All things being equal, I'll buy American, but
things are seldom equal. At Lowes the other day I paid more than twice
as much for American made Channel Lock needle nose pliers over generic,
because I wanted a tool that was precise and tough. The same day I
bought an import Stanley tape measure over the old school American made
one because I liked the way it didn't reel in as soon as I let go of the
tape. I used to worry about it more, but then one day it occurred to me
that none of those people in those factories were doing me any favors,
nor were they likely to if they got the chance. I worked for the
Japanese for a couple of years. Very polite, soft spoken and modest
executives. Can't say the same for very many of the American ones I
have known. They can sink or swim on their own merits as far as I'm
concerned. But really the precarious state of American manufacturing
can all be blamed on our gutless politicians more than anything else.
We need our factories to be regulated for pollution, fair business
practices and safety, yet they have to compete with countries like China
which don't do anything of the kind. Goods that are made in conditions
that would be unacceptable here should either not be imported or heavily
tariffed. Neither is happening. Blame the politicians. That's where
it all begins and ends.
Someone observed recently "If you can't feed 'em don't breed em".
On 3 May 2005 18:19:15 -0700, "Never Enough Money"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You've got some good ideas there in the first paragraph.
>
>Your second paragragh is incorrect: you're darn right you take as many
>jobs as needed to support the fruit of your loins. It is not my
>responsibility to support your sexual irresponsibility.
Never Enough Money says...
> Politicians are only a small part of the problem. Include the greed of
> Unions, the crimes of CEOs, the failure of the educational system, the
> decay of the work ethic, child labor laws that prevent 14 year olds
> from find a summer job so that Nintendo is the only alternative, and
> hubris.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you will have to pardon
me if I roll my eyes when you say politicians are only a small part of
the problem. Most industrial nations are more unionized than the US,
and union membership, power and influence has been on a steady decline
for a while now. Don't tell me you haven't noticed the intimate
connection between unions and politicians. Our educational system is
government run--politicians again. Your assessment of the American work
ethic isn't born out by some easily verifiable facts. We have the
highest productivity and the highest GDP/capita in the world. The
honesty of our greedy, callous CEO's, as hard as it may be to believe,
compares favorably to most other nations. I heard more than one
financial analyst joke that the way Enron cooked their books was the
rule not the exception in the far east.
Robatoy says...
> Apprenticeships at Mercedes and Volkswagen factories are highly sought
> after. They create careers that the workers are very proud of.
> It shows in their products.
> The Japanese (Toyota/Honda etc) are the same way--->THEY do the training
> in the technical- and 'people'-skills.
> Here, speaking as an Americanadian, all you hear is: "Once I get my ass
> into that union!!" Where is that pride you hear so much about in the ads?
>
> The educational system seems to work for those kids who WANT to get
> ahead. Too many expect to be spoon-fed a degree.
> The problems start at home. So do the solutions.
>
> >SS problems
> > that the current president is so fixated on.
>
> That's just a Rovian smoke-screen. It's called misdirection, magicians
> operate on that principle.
Yet Volkswagen quality has been at the bottom of the heap for many years
now. Audi is mediocre at best, and speaking of Mercedes, you had better
get something when money is no object. American cars are much better
than they are given credit for, and not all Japanese cars are just like
a Lexus in reliability. I find most of them to be soulless and insipid
and most of the people who drive them treat you like an idiot if you
don't agree with sending thousands of dollars to the perpetrators of the
Bataan Death March. Asian-Americans almost always drive Japanese cars,
yet what the Japanese did to Asia was as bad as what the Germans did to
the Russians. According to human nature, everything imported is better,
no matter how obvious it is that it isn't better. In England, some
people actually drink Budweiser. That about floored me when I heard
that.
I have two PC nailers. Both made in Taiwan.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> > DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>
> I've got a bunch of Porter Cable stuff that ranges in age from a few weeks
> to about 18 years... I don't recall seeing anything but Made in USA on it
> (course that could be the box that was made in the USA. ;-)).
>
> Seriously, PC is my preferred brand... a local service shop means I can
get
> any parts I loose, wear out or break. For example, the dust collection
> canister from the random orbit sander didn't survive it's trip through the
> dust collector's impeller... I was using the dust collector as a vacuum
and
> accidentally sucked up the canister. ;-)
>
> John
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>I just had a problem with a Makita cordless drill. The reverse switch
>would no longer function. I sent it out to a factory authorized repair
>shop that is here in the states. They did repair it but now it will go
>forward when in reverse position and reverse when in the forward
>position.
>What does that say about the quality of the US worker??
Bass-ackwards?
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote in news:1115083134.822774.173510
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
<snip>
> We need to fix up our educational systems, our trade schools, etc. This
> is a crisis in the making and it will
> bit us in a shorter time then the so-called SS problems
> that the current president is so fixated on.
>
<snip>
Not to deny the problems in the schools, but, according to the venture
capitalist who spoke at lunch time today, a significant portion of the
engineers being hired in China, to do development on a very large scale
Asian ecommerce effort, were educated in schools in the United States and
Canada.
There is a competitive cost to educating the world, but there are great
benefits as well. You live in the Bay Area. Who leads Silicon Valley?
Whence come the engineers? And where are they educated?
Patriarch,
who just bought a made-in-Milwaukee Delta jointer, and it's only 50+ years
old.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:s2vee.16102$c86.12673@trndny09:
> But they can do the layout from anyplace in the world that has
> electricity and perhaps a phone line or satellite connection.
>
Strangely enough, that seems to be a _major_ limiting factor in the
outsourcing to India/elsewhere craze. According to a VC CEO who spoke
earlier this week, finding a building with sufficient
(power/water/sewer/transportation/comms) infrastructure has gotten to be a
real problem. People can be anywhere, but you still have to have
electricity, and you have to be able to support their activities. Tangible
goods have to move in and out.
Rather makes you think about the level of investment it took to get the
industrialized world up to speed, and the challenge of keeping it there.
One of the issues raised (whether correctly or not) in the prices for
thiings like oil and cement, was the investment in Chinese infrastructure
in the past five years.
Competition in the marketplace exists at many levels.
Patriarch
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> On a related note, ask any junior or high school student for a fast
> historical synopsis of the years since Pearl Harbor. Or ask who Winston
> Churchill was. Or ask about...ah, shit. Almost anything that didn't
> happen on American Idol or Survivor in the last month.
>
> It WILL make you cry.
>
... and don't forget to count how many times they say "like"... :)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> We need to fix up our educational systems, our trade schools, etc. This
> is a crisis in the making and it will
> bit us in a shorter time then the so-called
Apprenticeships at Mercedes and Volkswagen factories are highly sought
after. They create careers that the workers are very proud of.
It shows in their products.
The Japanese (Toyota/Honda etc) are the same way--->THEY do the training
in the technical- and 'people'-skills.
Here, speaking as an Americanadian, all you hear is: "Once I get my ass
into that union!!" Where is that pride you hear so much about in the ads?
The educational system seems to work for those kids who WANT to get
ahead. Too many expect to be spoon-fed a degree.
The problems start at home. So do the solutions.
>SS problems
> that the current president is so fixated on.
That's just a Rovian smoke-screen. It's called misdirection, magicians
operate on that principle.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think the BMW's are made in South Carolina, not Georgia (but I could
> be wrong).
I stand (sit) corrected.
It's all 'down South' to me, a Kanuckistani. <G>
You know.. warm, sometimes rainy, sometimes really frickin' windy?
Having said that, I sure hope I did't start anything.
In article <[email protected]>,
Hax Planx <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yet Volkswagen quality has been at the bottom of the heap for many years
> now. Audi is mediocre at best, and speaking of Mercedes, you had better
> get something when money is no object.
Volkswagens are built to a price-point. Not a good idea. Not even those
Volkswagens made in Mexico.
Audis are a hyper bunch. Incredibly complex, incredibly agile. $1200.00
tune-ups. Worth it if you're into that kind of thing.
Mercedes is highly overrated in my opinion. Ranks amongst the highest in
'one-time buyer' syndrome in the luxury market. Many don't buy a second
one.
>American cars are much better
> than they are given credit for,
Some are better than average. Many 'Japanese' cars like Toyotas are
built in North America. (Many BMW's are made in Georgia.)
>and not all Japanese cars are just like
> a Lexus in reliability.
Cheap Toyota Corollas are more reliable than the big models that Lexus
sells. ( My nephew is a service advisor for a Toyota/Lexus dealership in
Kansas.)
> I find most of them to be soulless and insipid
Incredibly boring. Suddenly 1200 dollar tune-ups don't seem so bad, eh?
> and most of the people who drive them treat you like an idiot if you
> don't agree with sending thousands of dollars to the perpetrators of the
> Bataan Death March. Asian-Americans almost always drive Japanese cars,
> yet what the Japanese did to Asia was as bad as what the Germans did to
> the Russians.
Indeed.
>According to human nature, everything imported is better,
> no matter how obvious it is that it isn't better. In England, some
> people actually drink Budweiser. That about floored me when I heard
> that.
Couldn't agree more. Here in Canada, we make some of the better beer in
the world, but Budweiser is all the rage in some areas. Go figure.
Budweiser in the UK...mmmmm warm too?
If my information is correct, Aussies don't care much for Fosters either.
Anyway, I agree with many of your observations. What you did not touch
on was the difference in workers' attitudes, and that was the point I
was trying to make.
Respectfully,
Rob
In article <[email protected]>,
Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 02:03:02 GMT, Vijay Kumar <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
> >> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
> >>
> >> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
> >>
> >> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
> >> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tom C.
> >> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
> >>
> >> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
> >> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
> >> digress.
> >>
> >> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> >> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
> >>
> >> Pains me to buy the China stuff.
> >>
> >Dewalt, Porter Cable majority of their stuff is US made. Milwaukee too
> >although the parent is in Hong Kong.
>
> Dremel, Ellis and Miller are also US made. Also made in the US:
> Shop-vac (according to what I found), Campbell Hausfeld, Tecumseh,
> S-K Tools, and a constantly-dwindling pile of others. I've been
> trying to get my hands on a good list of them for a while, but it
> seems like someone is trying to keep it all secret. All I can find is
> a bunch of BS from the AFL-CIO about how spiffy unions are when I try
> and find a source for US manufacturers.
>
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Just for a lark, I read the origins of what was on my bench a few
minutes ago.
Milwaukee jigsaw...Made in Germany.
Milwaukee 1 3/4 HP router.. "assembled" in USA
Milwaukee 2 1/4HP router .. "assembled" in USA
Hitachi 12MV router made in Malaysia.
I think the "assembled" in USA is somewhat like some chocolate bars as
of late:
MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SOME OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING:
Ya figgur a lawyer dreamt that one up?..<G>
I think the whole world is going to pot....which MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN
SOME OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING......
On Tue, 03 May 2005 13:06:44 GMT, John B
<[email protected]> wrote:
> unless there is a Town in China named USA. :
There are several. There's definitely a "Sheffield", for exactly this
reason.
[email protected] wrote:
> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
>
> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
>
> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
> Best regards,
> Tom C.
> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
>
> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
> digress.
>
> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>
> Pains me to buy the China stuff.
>
Dewalt, Porter Cable majority of their stuff is US made. Milwaukee too
although the parent is in Hong Kong.
So you work for 20 cents per hour?
"Oldun" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If a company can get a tool built in China to the same standards for half
> price then thats where they will shop. If the American worker cannot
compete
> then who is at fault?
> As consumers, we all want the best for the least cost.
> Look at what the Japanese did to the automobile industry by giving
consumers
> what they wanted at a price they were prepared to pay.
> There is a lesson there so learn from it rather than complain about it.
>
> Such is life.
>
> Oldun
>
>
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I want to see any third world country print a daily newspaper, deliver it
> within three to four hours, and do it for less money.
But they can do the layout from anyplace in the world that has electricity
and perhaps a phone line or satellite connection.
On Tue, 03 May 2005 12:06:31 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> We need to fix up our educational systems, our trade schools, etc. This
>> is a crisis in the making and it will
>> bit us in a shorter time then the so-called
>
>
>Apprenticeships at Mercedes and Volkswagen factories are highly sought
>after. They create careers that the workers are very proud of.
>It shows in their products.
>The Japanese (Toyota/Honda etc) are the same way--->THEY do the training
>in the technical- and 'people'-skills.
>Here, speaking as an Americanadian, all you hear is: "Once I get my ass
>into that union!!" Where is that pride you hear so much about in the ads?
I kinda think we need an American version of Bushido. I imagine some
of those guys would change their tune pretty quick if the supervisor
could knock them down and piss on thier backs in front of everyone if
they screwed around. I know I plug buying American quite a bit, but I
definately know what you're saying- I just really don't want to be
under the boot of a foreign power twenty or thirty years from now so
some jackass CEO can make a couple of bucks today. Just buying local
may not be the way to fix the system, but at least it's doing
something.
>The educational system seems to work for those kids who WANT to get
>ahead. Too many expect to be spoon-fed a degree.
>The problems start at home. So do the solutions.
Not so much anymore. As one of the younger fellas here, I distinctly
remember all the resources and attention going to the meat-headed
sports players and the problem kids. The first ones helped the local
school system pass budget referrendums, and the latter group just
couldn't be "left behind", could they? Anyone who wanted a decent
education was left to fight over the scraps. Now that isn't to say
that I did not have some impressively skilled and devoted teachers
during my school career, but they were definately fighting an uphill
battle.
On a related issue- anyone notice the changes in the libraries in the
past ten years or so? If you haven't, try comparing the volume of
books with "for dummies" on the cover with the volume of books that
comprised a classical education. My local library has removed Eucid,
Newton, Aristotle, Chaucer, the collected works of the Nobel Prize
winners, Darwin and several others from the stacks to make room for
Cliff's Notes and other bullshit. When I asked about it, the
librarian shrugged and said no one wanted them anyone. It damn near
made me cry.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Wasn't that called the "Bracero" (SP?) program about 60 years ago? It
no longer exists.
On 3 May 2005 14:15:11 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Wouldn't it be simpler to make it possible for illegals to get into the
>country legally as long as work was available that no one else would
>do?
[email protected] wrote:
> I saw from a 1999 post that Ridgid's EB4424 Belt Sander was made in the
> USA. Thought things might have changed, I emailed Ridgid, I was right.
>
> "RIDGID Response: (05/02/2005 12:06)
>
> The EB4424 is made in China/Taiwan to the same exacting Ridgid
> standards that it was when it was made in the U.S.
> Best regards,
> Tom C.
> Consumer Response - One World Technologies, Inc. "
>
> Irritation - they don't reply to your email - they send you a user
> name/password to use with there 'E-box" on their website - BS. I
> digress.
>
> Who are the Made in USA power tool makers left? Delta is a mixed bag.
> DeWalt? Porter Cable?
>
> Pains me to buy the China stuff.
>
As this thread has gone to hell and almost back again thought I'd add my
2 bobs worth regarding profits, and wages and benefits and all them
things that make it no longer viable to make products at a reasonable
price in the US and Aust.
A while ago a magazine programme on telly had an article regarding just
this and used a leather coat as an example.
Now I'm working from memory, which aint what it used to be but the
equation went something like this.
1 x leather jacket manufactured in Australia costing $75.00 to produce
and whole selling at $200.00.
Same leather jacket manufactured in China costing $25.00 to produce and
whole selling at $200.00.
Now, I may not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it seems to me that
the only people benefiting from this are at the top of the pile.
My rant for the month.:)
have a good one
John
Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 13:06:44 GMT, John B
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>unless there is a Town in China named USA. :
>
>
> There are several. There's definitely a "Sheffield", for exactly this
> reason.
Mum and Dad often used to speak of an "England" in Japan that used to
produce products as "made in England" just after the 2nd war. This was
the period when you'd get a tin toy and upon investigation find that it
was made from Baby Powder tins etc turned inside out and re-pressed.
Recycling at it's very earliest :)
John