[email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
> would a 1:6 ratio be?
Too tapered, mainly. I'd go with 1:8 instead. 1:6 is used for
softwoods, but if you're just learning to cut these, you're better
doing it on some decent timber (ash or beech are good). Getting them
tightly cut in squishy timber is a thankless job.
To set the bevel, lay out the measurements on the straight edge of a
scrap of timber - 4" in, and 1/2" off to the side. Then set your bevel
to this line.
And remember Tage Frid's approach - saw them accurately the first
time. If you can't do this right, practice the sawing until you can
(and a decent rip-sharpened saw helps). Don't fool around trying to
"chisel them to accurate shape".
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:26:07 -0500, Australopithecus scobis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Right. I was flummoxed for a while working on a drawer recently: Purely
>be serendipity -- not innate skill! -- two sets of pins and tails
>matched each other exactly.
Right at that moment, I would have run out and purchased lottery
tickets!
Barry
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:35:56 GMT, patriarch <> wrote:
> B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:46:33 -0400, Bill Rogers <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>However, you really don't need to be *that* concerned here about
>>>accuracy and precision.
>>
>> Right!
>>
>> Close enough is good, as long as the pins and tails match.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>
> And fill the gaps with epoxy! ;-)
>
> Patriarch
For 1:6 dovetails, I set the angle to . .um . . 1:6?
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:46:33 -0400, Bill Rogers <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>However, you really don't need to be *that* concerned here about
>>accuracy and precision.
>
> Right!
>
> Close enough is good, as long as the pins and tails match.
>
> Barry
>
And fill the gaps with epoxy! ;-)
Patriarch
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
> > would a 1:6 ratio be? I am a math idiot.
> >
> > Bob
>
> If you are laying out handcut dovetails why bother with an angle measure?
> Draw a right triangle with 1" and 6" legs and set a bevel gauge to hit the
> ends of the legs along the hypotenuse with base of the gauge against the
> short leg... Or use a framing square and adjust the bevel gauge to hit the
> 1" and 6" marks on the inside edges. Of just set the bevel gauge by eye and
> use it! If it's in the ballpark that is all that matters as you should lay
> out the tails from the pins (of the pins from the tails depending on which
> you cut first).
Indeed, it is surely more accurate, and more importantly more precise
(e.g. reproducible) to lay out the linear dimensions than to try to
read/mark 9.5 degrees with a protractor.
What really counts is the match between the pins and their mating tails
which is why you should always cut the pins fist and use them as a
guide to mark the tails, unless you are a heretic who cuts the tails
first and uses them as a guide to lay out the pins.
BTW those doevetail marking guages built like saddle squares the Lee
Valley sells are sweet.
--
FF
[email protected] (Andy Dingley) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
> And remember Tage Frid's approach - saw them accurately the first
> time. If you can't do this right, practice the sawing until you can
> (and a decent rip-sharpened saw helps). Don't fool around trying to
> "chisel them to accurate shape".
Franz Klaus marks the depth of cut with a marking gauge then
cuts the pins freehand, spacing and angling them by eye. He
then uses the pins to layout the tails and here I think he uses
a small square to draw a perpendicular line accross the endgrain
of the board. I tried it just like he does it and it is surprisingly
easy to get, oh, 3 out of four fitted tightly. But his all looked
balanced, the same size, shape and spacing.
--
FF
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Close enough is good, as long as the pins and tails match.
Right. I was flummoxed for a while working on a drawer recently: Purely
be serendipity -- not innate skill! -- two sets of pins and tails
matched each other exactly. Dry fit one side, OK, dry fit the other, OK,
... and the drawer was inside out! The immediate "Oh, Sh*t" eventually
turned to an "Aha!" Drawer is now right-side-out and functioning almost
perfectly -- it's just too small for all the cruft I stuffed into
it...and it's the overflow drawer!
--
"Keep your ass behind you."
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:36:08 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
>> would a 1:6 ratio be? I am a math idiot.
>>
>> Bob
>
>If you are laying out handcut dovetails why bother with an angle measure?
>Draw a right triangle with 1" and 6" legs and set a bevel gauge to hit the
>ends of the legs along the hypotenuse with base of the gauge against the
>short leg...
Or get or make some of these:
<http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32586&category=1,42936&ccurrency=2&SID=>
Barry
On 8 Jul 2004 17:48:09 -0700, [email protected] (Bob) wrote:
>Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
>would a 1:6 ratio be? I am a math idiot.
9 1/2 degrees.
It is a measure of the tangent of the angle.
On your calculator press these keys:
1
/
6
=
inv
tan
...and you should see 9.46. Rounded will give the above. Don't
forget to press the = key after 1 / 6.
Make sure your calculator is set to use use Degrees, not Radians or
Grads. It should be there by default.
Bill.
On 9 Jul 2004 02:43:03 -0700, [email protected] (Andy Dingley)
calmly ranted:
>[email protected] (Bob) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
>> would a 1:6 ratio be?
>
>Too tapered, mainly. I'd go with 1:8 instead. 1:6 is used for
>softwoods, but if you're just learning to cut these, you're better
>doing it on some decent timber (ash or beech are good). Getting them
>tightly cut in squishy timber is a thankless job.
>
>To set the bevel, lay out the measurements on the straight edge of a
>scrap of timber - 4" in, and 1/2" off to the side. Then set your bevel
>to this line.
>
>And remember Tage Frid's approach - saw them accurately the first
>time. If you can't do this right, practice the sawing until you can
>(and a decent rip-sharpened saw helps). Don't fool around trying to
>"chisel them to accurate shape".
I cut some pristine doveys in some birdseye SPF this morning
for S&G. Well, OK, they weren't pristine and it was vertical
grained doug fir. What angle? "Oh, that looks about right."
I'd post a JPG but don't want to scare anybody.
-------------------------------------------
Crapsman tools are their own punishment
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
======================================================
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:44:29 -0400, Gordon Airporte <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Bah. Freehand them you wimps. People should KNOW you didn't use a router ;-)
Hear, hear!
--------------------------------------------
-- I'm in touch with my Inner Curmudgeon. --
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
============================================================
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:46:33 -0400, Bill Rogers <[email protected]>
wrote:
>However, you really don't need to be *that* concerned here about
>accuracy and precision.
Right!
Close enough is good, as long as the pins and tails match.
Barry
On 9 Jul 2004 00:17:26 -0700, [email protected] (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:
>> If you are laying out handcut dovetails why bother with an angle measure?
>> Draw a right triangle with 1" and 6" legs and set a bevel gauge to hit the
>> ends of the legs along the hypotenuse with base of the gauge against the
>> short leg... Or use a framing square and adjust the bevel gauge to hit the
>> 1" and 6" marks on the inside edges. Of just set the bevel gauge by eye and
>> use it! If it's in the ballpark that is all that matters as you should lay
>> out the tails from the pins (of the pins from the tails depending on which
>> you cut first).
>
>Indeed, it is surely more accurate, and more importantly more precise
>(e.g. reproducible) to lay out the linear dimensions than to try to
>read/mark 9.5 degrees with a protractor.
I won't argue the distinct advantages of layout [usually based upon
firm mathematical principles] over calculation when applicable.
However, you really don't need to be *that* concerned here about
accuracy and precision.
Also, the carpenter's square is a bit unweildly for non-construction
type work, and that's my argument here, unless you are building a
barn. I own an adjustable drafting triangle marked clearly to the
nearest half-degree, and can guesstimate between those if necessary.
That's set in a jiffy, and for transfer I'd lay across an adjustable
bevel, as you suggest, and use that to mark the dovetails. Fast,
simple, and accurate ...but first I'd calculate the angle, again
simple and quick on the calculator. Continued use of the same bevel
gives precision in either instance.
As a balance, I'd suggest possible use of graph paper, and use the
grid lines to get your angle. Go along one and up six, or along two
and up twelve ...and so on. Carefully fold the paper, and use it as
is if necessary for a small amount of work.
Bill.
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cant seem to figure this out as I am new to dovetails. What angle
> would a 1:6 ratio be? I am a math idiot.
>
> Bob
If you are laying out handcut dovetails why bother with an angle measure?
Draw a right triangle with 1" and 6" legs and set a bevel gauge to hit the
ends of the legs along the hypotenuse with base of the gauge against the
short leg... Or use a framing square and adjust the bevel gauge to hit the
1" and 6" marks on the inside edges. Of just set the bevel gauge by eye and
use it! If it's in the ballpark that is all that matters as you should lay
out the tails from the pins (of the pins from the tails depending on which
you cut first).
John