The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
hung the darn thing.
You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
circuit board. ;-)
On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> hung the darn thing.
>
> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> circuit board. ;-)
>
You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:10:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>
>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> hung the darn thing.
>>
>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> circuit board. ;-)
>>
>
>
>You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
You aren't shopping at Home Despot or Lowes or some discount online
retailer. (and you are likely not paying MUCH more than the guys who
"never pay retail"
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:01:49 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >> >> hung the darn thing.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >> >> >the latest generation).
> >> >>
> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >> >> >CRI.
> >> >>
> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >> >>
> >> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >> >>
> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >> >> those who do.
> >> >
> >> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >> >
> >> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> >> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> >> >fixtures.
> >> >
> >> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> >> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> >> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> >> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> >> >technology.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >> >
> >> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> >> >two?
> >>
> >> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
> >> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
> >
> >True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
> >
> >The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
> >into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
> >the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
> >more.
> >
> >That's all I'm saying.
>
> But then it would be a $600 fan and light;)
Show me the math you used.
>
> Is it possible to put a color gel between the led source and the lens?
> You might be able to get the ambiance you want.
That's not how LED color temperature works.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> on Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:10:26 -0600 typed
in rec.woodworking the following:
>On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>
>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> hung the darn thing.
>>
>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> circuit board. ;-)
>
>You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
Are you buying bulbs that can be installed in fixtures?
Because what he's talking about is the tendency to hardwire the
light source into the fixture, and you have your choice of this
fixture and a light you don't want, or the light you want in a fixture
you don't want.
Going off on a tangent: smart phones and other devices, which no
longer have a replaceable or even removable battery. Well, yes, it is
true that you can indeed can remove the battery from a Kindle. All
you need is a heat gun, some proper non-conductive pry sticks, double
sided tape and much patience lest you bend the battery, or rip the
wires from the connection.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 7:40:24 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> hung the darn thing.
>
> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> circuit board. ;-)
What follows is simply FYI: There is no apostrophe in LEDs. LEDs is simply the plural form of LED. LED's is the possessive form.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>hung the darn thing.
>
>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>circuit board. ;-)
I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 15:58:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:43:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >>>> hung the darn thing.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >>>> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >> >>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >> >>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >> >>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >> >>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >> >>> the latest generation).
> >> >>
> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
> >> >>
> >> >>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >> >>> CRI.
> >> >>
> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >> >>
> >> >>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >> >>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >> >>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >> >>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >> >>
> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >> >> those who do.
> >> >
> >> > I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >> >
> >> > Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> >> > to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> >> > fixtures.
> >> >
> >> > If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> >> > (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> >> > light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> >> > already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> >> > technology.
> >> >
> >> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >> >
> >> > How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> >> > two?
> >>
> >> One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
> >> is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
> >
> >But I didn't say give it away. I even said in an earlier post that I'd pay
> >that extra buck or two for that switchable color temperature.
>
> A buck in the bill of materials is more like ten bucks retail. They
> made the marketing decision that not enough customers would pay the
> additional to offset those who didn't care about that option and
> bought another company's product.
> >
All my figures were cost to the consumer, not cost to manufacture. $13 was
retail for the LED can cover. $300 was retail for the fan. The buck or two
extra I said I'd pay was the retail buck or two.
I'm pretty sure that the switchable color temp technology in a $13 fixture
doesn't add $1 - $2 to the *manufacturing* cost. That's way too high of a
percentage. If $1 leads to $10 retail, then the cost to manufacture the entire
fixture must be about $1.30. No way you get to $13 retail if the color
switching technology by itself cost $1 - $2. It's probably more like pennies
to build it in, leading to a buck or two retail.
That was my point. Pennies at the factory, a buck or two on the retail end
and you get a much more user friendly light kit in a $300 fan. Something I'd
be willing to pay for.
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >>
> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >> hung the darn thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >>
> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >>
> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >> >the latest generation).
> >>
> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >> not LEDs, IMO.
> >>
> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >> >CRI.
> >>
> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >>
> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >>
> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >> those who do.
> >
> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >
> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> >fixtures.
> >
> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> >technology.
> >
> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >
> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> >two?
>
> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
more.
That's all I'm saying.
>
> >>
> >> >Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
> >> >where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
> >> >go to the shop and build your own!
> >>
> >> I'd love to see you fit an Edison based bulb in my ceiling fans (light
> >> fixture <1" thick).
> >> >
> >> >I feel your pain!
On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> hung the darn thing.
>
> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> circuit board. ;-)
>
You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >>
> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> hung the darn thing.
> >>
> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >>
> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >>
> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> circuit board. ;-)
> >>
> >
> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >the latest generation).
>
> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> not LEDs, IMO.
>
> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >CRI.
>
> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>
> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>
> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> those who do.
I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
fixtures.
If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
technology.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
two?
>
> >Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
> >where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
> >go to the shop and build your own!
>
> I'd love to see you fit an Edison based bulb in my ceiling fans (light
> fixture <1" thick).
> >
> >I feel your pain!
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 10:46:57 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> > That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >
> > You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> > exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> > hung the darn thing.
> >
> > You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> > too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >
> > That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> > LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> > dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >
> > I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> > still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> > own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> > circuit board. ;-)
> >
>
> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> the latest generation).
>
> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> CRI.
The specs for my new fan 17W, 80 CRI, 1600 lumens.
>
> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
You got that last item exactly right: "hacking up new items". Somebody
else in this fine group thinks that whipping out the soldering iron
and voiding the warranty on a ~$300 fan is the "solution" to my complaint.
As far as paying high dollar, one option to make these fan fixtures much
more flexible would cost next to nothing. The following fixture - the
*complete* fixture - costs $13 and includes the ability to choose 5
different color temps.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
The cost of the fan already includes everything that fixture has except
for the switch, a little extra circuitry and color selectable LED's. That
sure wouldn't add much to the overall cost of the fan, maybe a dollar or
two. I'd pay that in a heartbeat.
>
> Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
> where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
> go to the shop and build your own!
>
Some ceiling fans might be, others may not. Sure, they can probably all
be adapted "electrically" but can it be done without changing the look of
the fan?
Fitting an Edison base and bulb into the fan I bought without changing the
look might not be possible, space wise. That takes me back to my original
gripe - I like the look of the fan, it's the light output that I'm not happy
with.
>
> I feel your pain!
Appreciate it. ;-)
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:45:51 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:03:16 GMT, Puckdropper <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things
>>> these days. That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or
>>> color temperature.
>>>
>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light
>>> isn't exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that
>>> until you've hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the
>>> light's too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the
>>> ceiling? LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an
>>> LED compatible dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you
>>> could still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you
>>> could screw your own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little
>>> yellow squares on a circuit board. ;-)
>>
>>Not even on a circuit board... Tape. Depends on how good the tape is,
>>too. I got some cheap stuff (my money, my choice) from banggood and the
>>tape is coming off and causing the lights to fail. I gotta get the
>>soldering iron out and fix that one day--and the double sided tape too.
>
> I've bought some of that shite too - I'm a relatively fast learner
>but even I tried a few before I got smart. Paying triple the price is
>still cheap if youdon't have to fix or repair it.
>>
>>I love LED fixtures, they're really bright, they sip electricity, but
>>when they die you're out $30+ for a new fixture rather than $0.25 for a
>>new bulb. I guess it just depends on how good of driver the manufacturer
>>put into the fixture as to how long they last.
>
>And sometimes replacing the driver is all that is required. Done that
>too. You should have seen the strobes, position indicators and landing
>lights my partner designed for the Pegazair!!!!
Probably like the LED headlights on my wife's car. She's always
getting "flashed" by oncoming cars when her brights aren't on. Pisses
her off. The whole idea is pretty dumb - both drivers blinded.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>
>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> hung the darn thing.
>>
>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> circuit board. ;-)
>>
>
>With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>the latest generation).
Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
not LEDs, IMO.
>Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>CRI.
If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
those who do.
>Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
>where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
>go to the shop and build your own!
I'd love to see you fit an Edison based bulb in my ceiling fans (light
fixture <1" thick).
>
>I feel your pain!
On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 16:17:41 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 15:58:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:43:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> > On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >>>> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >>>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >> >>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >> >>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >> >>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >> >>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >> >>> the latest generation).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >> >>> CRI.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >> >>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >> >>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >> >>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> >> those who do.
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >> >
>> >> > Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >> > to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >> > fixtures.
>> >> >
>> >> > If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >> > (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >> > light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >> > already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >> > technology.
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >> >
>> >> > How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >> > two?
>> >>
>> >> One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
>> >> is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
>> >
>> >But I didn't say give it away. I even said in an earlier post that I'd pay
>> >that extra buck or two for that switchable color temperature.
>>
>> A buck in the bill of materials is more like ten bucks retail. They
>> made the marketing decision that not enough customers would pay the
>> additional to offset those who didn't care about that option and
>> bought another company's product.
>> >
>
>All my figures were cost to the consumer, not cost to manufacture. $13 was
>retail for the LED can cover. $300 was retail for the fan. The buck or two
>extra I said I'd pay was the retail buck or two.
>
>I'm pretty sure that the switchable color temp technology in a $13 fixture
>doesn't add $1 - $2 to the *manufacturing* cost. That's way too high of a
>percentage. If $1 leads to $10 retail, then the cost to manufacture the entire
>fixture must be about $1.30. No way you get to $13 retail if the color
>switching technology by itself cost $1 - $2. It's probably more like pennies
>to build it in, leading to a buck or two retail.
>
>That was my point. Pennies at the factory, a buck or two on the retail end
>and you get a much more user friendly light kit in a $300 fan. Something I'd
>be willing to pay for.
But the AVERAGE American consumer makes decisions based on a price
difference of a dollar or two all the time.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:49:16 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:10:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>
>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>
>>
>>
>>You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>>with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
> You aren't shopping at Home Despot or Lowes or some discount online
>retailer. (and you are likely not paying MUCH more than the guys who
>"never pay retail"
I can buy screw in bulbs at Home Depot that let me set the color
temperature wherever I want it through a fairly broad range. Or for
more bucks just any bloody color I want.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 10:04:31 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >>> hung the darn thing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >>> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
> >> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
> >> >
> >> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
> >> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
> >> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
> >> > fixture?
> >> >
> >> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
> >> >
> >> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
> >> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
> >>
> >> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
> >> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
> >>
> >> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
> >> products on display and lit up.
> >
> >I think you are still missing my point.
> >
> >We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
> >I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
> >LED in my new ceiling fan.
>
> They ARE replaceable. Supposedly not "field replaceable" or "user
> replaceable" but replacement parts ARE available for the good brands.
> >
> >We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
> >and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
> >
> >There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
> >conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
> >
> >My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
> >conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
> >home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
> >fan I want.
> >
> >To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
> >with the fan I like:
> >
> >https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
> >
> >If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
> >of light kit.
> >
> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
> >
> >That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
> >I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
> Replacement lamps ARE available for Kichlers.
For *some* Kichlers perhaps, not for the 330001. I called and asked.
> And they make fans with different lamp colors.
Sure, but I don't want a different fan. That's the whole point of this thread.
> The lamp elements are interchangeable between
> MANY of their fans.
Not with the fan that I bought. I asked that too. No other light kit, at least
not as a spare part, is available for the 33001.
Maybe, if I dug really deep, I might find a different fan with a compatible
light kit, in the color temp I want. Then I could buy that fan, swap out the
light kit, put it in the fan I already own and then return the extra fan.
Sounds like a great, but dishonest, plan. No thanks.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:21:37 -0500, ads wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>
>>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>hung the darn thing.
>>
>>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>circuit board. ;-)
>
>I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
>bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
>lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
>
>The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
>find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
>a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
>color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
>on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
>fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
I have found the opposite. I've switched virtually everything over to
the daylight bulbs and after a very short period of adjustment have
found it VERY GOOD.I can use 60 watt equivalents in place of 100 watt
bulbe and single 4 foot tube replacements give as much visibility as
twin tube flourescents with dekux cool white -which is what I
generally used.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>>
>> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >>> hung the darn thing.
>> >>>
>> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>>
>> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>>
>> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> >
>> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> > fixture?
>> >
>> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>> >
>> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>> >
>>
>> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
>> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>>
>> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
>> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>>
>> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
>> products on display and lit up.
>
>I think you are still missing my point.
>
>We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
>I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
>LED in my new ceiling fan.
>
>We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
>and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
>
>There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
>conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
>
>My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
>conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
>home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
>fan I want.
>
>To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
>with the fan I like:
>
>https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
>
>If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
>of light kit.
>
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
>
>That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
>I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
Back in the incandescent days you were basically stuck with one
color too - unless you wanted red or yellow or green or purple.
The flourescent lamps gave you some choice. LED gives you a lot more
- and the high end LEDS can be any colour you want - you can tune them
any way and even change them "on the fly" Some in-between units allow
you to jumper between 2 or 3 color temperatures
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things
> these days. That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or
> color temperature.
>
> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light
> isn't exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that
> until you've hung the darn thing.
>
> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the
> light's too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the
> ceiling? LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an
> LED compatible dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you
> could still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you
> could screw your own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little
> yellow squares on a circuit board. ;-)
Not even on a circuit board... Tape. Depends on how good the tape is,
too. I got some cheap stuff (my money, my choice) from banggood and the
tape is coming off and causing the lights to fail. I gotta get the
soldering iron out and fix that one day--and the double sided tape too.
I love LED fixtures, they're really bright, they sip electricity, but
when they die you're out $30+ for a new fixture rather than $0.25 for a
new bulb. I guess it just depends on how good of driver the manufacturer
put into the fixture as to how long they last.
FWIW, you can paint individual LEDs with translucent paint. Sometimes I
need to make a LED more amber for use as a locomotive headlight. I doubt
you can take a 2700K LED and make it 6500K, but you can take a 6500K and
tone it down.
Puckdropper
On 1/30/2020 11:15 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:21:37 -0500, ads wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>
>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>
>> I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
>> bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
>> lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
>>
>> The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
>> find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
>> a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
>> color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
>> on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
>> fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
> I have found the opposite. I've switched virtually everything over to
> the daylight bulbs and after a very short period of adjustment have
> found it VERY GOOD.I can use 60 watt equivalents in place of 100 watt
> bulbe and single 4 foot tube replacements give as much visibility as
> twin tube flourescents with dekux cool white -which is what I
> generally used.
>
Same here. Last house was nearly all LED. When we moved in here a year
ago the builder had all LED and thankfully, all the daylight. I like
the white light.
One exception. The lamps on the bedroom end tables have two bulbs. In
one I have a 15W with a low color temperature. I have that on when
watching TV in bed. They actually make lights to go behind the TV.
better on the eyes.
On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:43:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >>>>
> >>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >>>> hung the darn thing.
> >>>>
> >>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >>>>
> >>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >>>>
> >>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >>>> circuit board. ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >>> the latest generation).
> >>
> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >> not LEDs, IMO.
> >>
> >>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >>> CRI.
> >>
> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >>
> >>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >>
> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >> those who do.
> >
> > I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >
> > Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> > to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> > fixtures.
> >
> > If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> > (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> > light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> > already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> > technology.
> >
> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >
> > How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> > two?
>
> One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
> is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
But I didn't say give it away. I even said in an earlier post that I'd pay
that extra buck or two for that switchable color temperature.
>
> You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
I was talking about color temperature, not color of LED. Soft White, Bright
White, Daylight, etc. Not blue, green, red. I used the term "color temperature"
in my other posts but accidentally left out the word "temperature" in the
one you just responded to. My bad.
The Commercial Electric unit I linked to has a switch for 5 choices of color
temperature. That's what I would like to see in my fan and that's what I'd pay
a buck or two extra for.
>
> Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> > That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >
> > You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> > exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> > hung the darn thing.
> >
> > You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> > too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >
> > That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> > LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> > dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >
> > I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> > still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> > own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> > circuit board. ;-)
> >
>
>
> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
fixture?
https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:29:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 10:07:45 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >>> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> >> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> >> >
>> >> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> >> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> >> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> >> > fixture?
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
>> >> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>> >>
>> >> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
>> >> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>> >>
>> >> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
>> >> products on display and lit up.
>> >
>> >I think you are still missing my point.
>> >
>> >We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
>> >I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
>> >LED in my new ceiling fan.
>> >
>> >We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
>> >and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
>> >
>> >There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
>> >conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
>> >
>> >My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
>> >conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
>> >home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
>> >fan I want.
>> >
>> >To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
>> >with the fan I like:
>> >
>> >https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
>> >
>> >If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
>> >of light kit.
>> >
>> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
>> >
>> >That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
>> >I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
>> Back in the incandescent days you were basically stuck with one
>> color too - unless you wanted red or yellow or green or purple.
>
>Who said anything about incandescents? I said fixtures with *sockets*. Once again: clueless.
>
I was just sayin' it's not a new problem Mr Thinskin. 20 years ago you
were stuck with what was available too.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:15:54 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:21:37 -0500, ads wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >>
> >>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >>hung the darn thing.
> >>
> >>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >>
> >>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >>
> >>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >>circuit board. ;-)
> >
> >I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
> >bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
> >lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
> >
> >The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
> >find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
> >a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
> >color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
> >on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
> >fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
> I have found the opposite. I've switched virtually everything over to
> the daylight bulbs and after a very short period of adjustment have
> found it VERY GOOD.I can use 60 watt equivalents in place of 100 watt
> bulbe and single 4 foot tube replacements give as much visibility as
> twin tube flourescents with dekux cool white -which is what I
> generally used.
But you were able to choose what equivalent wattage and what color to use.
Even in your 4' tubes you had choices. Not only did you have a choice when
you bought the LED bulbs, you had the opportunity to return the bulbs and try
something else. I've done that. That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about things like this:
https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
Love the look of the fan, had to accept the light output. No choice other
than find a different fan that has different LED specs. I'd basically have
to choose the fan based on the light specs since I can't choose my own
bulbs to see what works best. It's not like they offer different light kits
for any given fan. 17W, 80 CRI, 1600 lumens. Take it or leave it.
At a minimum, fans and other devices that don't have "sockets" should at
least have LED's that allow the user to choose their own color temp. I
bought LED covers for the can lights in the bathroom where I installed the
fan/light/heater unit. The user has 6 choices of color temperature. I
couldn't choose the color of the light in the fan/light/heater, but at
least I could match the color of all the lights by selecting the color temp
of the can covers.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
That entire fixture costs $13, so using a switchable LED panel in the $290
ceiling fan I linked to above wouldn't add more than a dollar or two to the
cost of the unit and would make it so much more flexible.
On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 16:03:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:43:35 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:43:31 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >>>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >>>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >>>>>> hung the darn thing.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >>>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >>>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >>>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >>>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >>>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >>>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >>>>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >>>>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >>>>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >>>>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >>>>> the latest generation).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >>>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >>>> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >>>>> CRI.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >>>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >>>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >>>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >>>>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >>>>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >>>>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >>>> those who do.
>> >>>
>> >>> I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >>>
>> >>> Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >>> to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >>> fixtures.
>> >>>
>> >>> If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >>> (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >>> light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >>> already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >>> technology.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >>>
>> >>> How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >>> two?
>> >>
>> >>One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
>> >>is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
>> >>
>> >>You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
>> >> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
>> >>
>> >>Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Except the controller can not control the cheap tech currently used.
>>
>> A multicolor light kit requires multiple LEDs of different colors.
>> Just putting a controller on a single LED won't change the color.
>> That's determined either by the chemistry of the LED for direct
>> emission LED or by the chemistry of the phosphor for the white ones.
>
>Let me set the record straight. I was talking about color temperature, not
>color of light. I used the word "temperature" in all my other posts but left
>it out of one and sent us all down a different road. My bad.
Color "temperature" IS color. Just a pretty narrow range of
wavelength.
RGB lighting basically "averages" wavelength - so the human eye sees a
particular color.
Direct emmission radiators "mix" to white. Single radiator "white"
LEDs use Phosphours like flourescents, which are excited by the
wavelength of the junction and are NOT adjustable.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 10:07:45 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >>> hung the darn thing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >>> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
> >> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
> >> >
> >> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
> >> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
> >> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
> >> > fixture?
> >> >
> >> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
> >> >
> >> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
> >> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
> >>
> >> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
> >> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
> >>
> >> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
> >> products on display and lit up.
> >
> >I think you are still missing my point.
> >
> >We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
> >I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
> >LED in my new ceiling fan.
> >
> >We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
> >and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
> >
> >There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
> >conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
> >
> >My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
> >conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
> >home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
> >fan I want.
> >
> >To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
> >with the fan I like:
> >
> >https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
> >
> >If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
> >of light kit.
> >
> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
> >
> >That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
> >I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
> Back in the incandescent days you were basically stuck with one
> color too - unless you wanted red or yellow or green or purple.
Who said anything about incandescents? I said fixtures with *sockets*. Once again: clueless.
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 8:43:24 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 16:17:41 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 15:58:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:43:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >> > On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >> >>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> >> >>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> >> >>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> >> >>>> hung the darn thing.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> >> >>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> >> >>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> >> >>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> >> >>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> >> >>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> >> >>>> circuit board. ;-)
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >> >> >>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >> >> >>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >> >> >>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >> >> >>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >> >> >>> the latest generation).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >> >> >>> CRI.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >> >> >>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >> >> >>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >> >> >>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >> >> >> those who do.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> >> >> > to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> >> >> > fixtures.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> >> >> > (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> >> >> > light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> >> >> > already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> >> >> > technology.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >> >> >
> >> >> > How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> >> >> > two?
> >> >>
> >> >> One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
> >> >> is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
> >> >
> >> >But I didn't say give it away. I even said in an earlier post that I'd pay
> >> >that extra buck or two for that switchable color temperature.
> >>
> >> A buck in the bill of materials is more like ten bucks retail. They
> >> made the marketing decision that not enough customers would pay the
> >> additional to offset those who didn't care about that option and
> >> bought another company's product.
> >> >
> >
> >All my figures were cost to the consumer, not cost to manufacture. $13 was
> >retail for the LED can cover. $300 was retail for the fan. The buck or two
> >extra I said I'd pay was the retail buck or two.
> >
> >I'm pretty sure that the switchable color temp technology in a $13 fixture
> >doesn't add $1 - $2 to the *manufacturing* cost. That's way too high of a
> >percentage. If $1 leads to $10 retail, then the cost to manufacture the entire
> >fixture must be about $1.30. No way you get to $13 retail if the color
> >switching technology by itself cost $1 - $2. It's probably more like pennies
> >to build it in, leading to a buck or two retail.
> >
> >That was my point. Pennies at the factory, a buck or two on the retail end
> >and you get a much more user friendly light kit in a $300 fan. Something I'd
> >be willing to pay for.
> But the AVERAGE American consumer makes decisions based on a price
> difference of a dollar or two all the time.
I'm pretty much an average consumer and I've made my decision. I'd pay
the extra dollar or two for color temperature switching in the fan I bought.
Besides, since the fan in question is available for as low as $231 to as
much as $290, *that's* where decisions are being made, not in the dollar
or two extra for the switching feature.
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >>>
> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >>> hung the darn thing.
> >>>
> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >>>
> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >>>
> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >>> circuit board. ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
> >
> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
> > fixture?
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
> >
> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
> >
>
> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>
> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>
> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
> products on display and lit up.
I think you are still missing my point.
We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
LED in my new ceiling fan.
We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
fan I want.
To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
with the fan I like:
https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
of light kit.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:43:35 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:43:31 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >>On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >>>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >>>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >>>>>> hung the darn thing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >>>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >>>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >>>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >>>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >>>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >>>>>> circuit board. ;-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
> >>>>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
> >>>>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
> >>>>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
> >>>>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
> >>>>> the latest generation).
> >>>>
> >>>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
> >>>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
> >>>> not LEDs, IMO.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
> >>>>> CRI.
> >>>>
> >>>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
> >>>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
> >>>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
> >>>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
> >>>>
> >>>>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
> >>>>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
> >>>>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
> >>>>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
> >>>>
> >>>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
> >>>> those who do.
> >>>
> >>> I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
> >>>
> >>> Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> >>> to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> >>> fixtures.
> >>>
> >>> If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> >>> (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> >>> light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> >>> already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> >>> technology.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
> >>>
> >>> How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> >>> two?
> >>
> >>One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
> >>is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
> >>
> >>You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
> >> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
> >>
> >>Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Except the controller can not control the cheap tech currently used.
>
> A multicolor light kit requires multiple LEDs of different colors.
> Just putting a controller on a single LED won't change the color.
> That's determined either by the chemistry of the LED for direct
> emission LED or by the chemistry of the phosphor for the white ones.
Let me set the record straight. I was talking about color temperature, not
color of light. I used the word "temperature" in all my other posts but left
it out of one and sent us all down a different road. My bad.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>>
>> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >>> hung the darn thing.
>> >>>
>> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>>
>> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>>
>> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> >
>> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> > fixture?
>> >
>> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>> >
>> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>> >
>>
>> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
>> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>>
>> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
>> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>>
>> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
>> products on display and lit up.
>
>I think you are still missing my point.
>
>We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
>I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
>LED in my new ceiling fan.
They ARE replaceable. Supposedly not "field replaceable" or "user
replaceable" but replacement parts ARE available for the good brands.
>
>We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
>and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
>
>There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
>conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
>
>My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
>conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
>home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
>fan I want.
>
>To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
>with the fan I like:
>
>https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
>
>If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
>of light kit.
>
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
>
>That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
>I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
Replacement lamps ARE available for Kichlers. And they make fans with
different lamp colors. The lamp elements are interchangeable between
MANY of their fans.Just need to know exactly what color temp you want,
or get the one closest to what you want and match your other lighting
to it.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:03:16 GMT, Puckdropper <[email protected]>
wrote:
>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things
>> these days. That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or
>> color temperature.
>>
>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light
>> isn't exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that
>> until you've hung the darn thing.
>>
>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the
>> light's too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the
>> ceiling? LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an
>> LED compatible dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you
>> could still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you
>> could screw your own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little
>> yellow squares on a circuit board. ;-)
>
>Not even on a circuit board... Tape. Depends on how good the tape is,
>too. I got some cheap stuff (my money, my choice) from banggood and the
>tape is coming off and causing the lights to fail. I gotta get the
>soldering iron out and fix that one day--and the double sided tape too.
I've bought some of that shite too - I'm a relatively fast learner
but even I tried a few before I got smart. Paying triple the price is
still cheap if youdon't have to fix or repair it.
>
>I love LED fixtures, they're really bright, they sip electricity, but
>when they die you're out $30+ for a new fixture rather than $0.25 for a
>new bulb. I guess it just depends on how good of driver the manufacturer
>put into the fixture as to how long they last.
And sometimes replacing the driver is all that is required. Done that
too. You should have seen the strobes, position indicators and landing
lights my partner designed for the Pegazair!!!!
>
>FWIW, you can paint individual LEDs with translucent paint. Sometimes I
>need to make a LED more amber for use as a locomotive headlight. I doubt
>you can take a 2700K LED and make it 6500K, but you can take a 6500K and
>tone it down.
>
>Puckdropper
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:54:53 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> > The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> >> > That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
> >> >
> >> > You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> >> > exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> >> > hung the darn thing.
> >> >
> >> > You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> >> > too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
> >> >
> >> > That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> >> > LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> >> > dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
> >> >
> >> > I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> >> > still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> >> > own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> >> > circuit board. ;-)
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
> >
> >Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
> >in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
> >in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
> >fixture?
> >
> >https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
> >
> >I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
> I just gave the answer. Don't buy off Amazon. There ARE suppliers
> that give you a choice.
What the f are you talking about? I already said that I didn't buy anything
on Amazon. You have no clue what I'm talking about.
Clare Snyder <[email protected]> on Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:47:35 -0500
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:22:29 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800
>>(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>
>>>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>circuit board. ;-)
>>
>> I'm longing for the days when I could get a lantern/flashlight
>>which didn't blind me with the back scatter. I do like how the LEDs
>>can be used half the night, night after night, for a long camp out.
>>But being blinded by the light is a pain. Literally when you trip
>>over something obscured by the glare.
> You CAN buy LED flashlights that have a more "natural" beam pattern
>and enough difusion to kill the glare.- but they don't cost $6 or
>less.
Dang. B-) Such is life.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >> >the latest generation).
>> >>
>> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >>
>> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >> >CRI.
>> >>
>> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >>
>> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >>
>> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> those who do.
>> >
>> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >
>> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >fixtures.
>> >
>> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >technology.
>> >
>> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >
>> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >two?
>>
>> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
>> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>
>True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
>
>The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
>into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
>the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
>more.
>
>That's all I'm saying.
>
Any "switchable color temp" LED WILL be high CRI because it is an RGB
device. Non switchable units are often using a single band-selection
phosphor, just like common flourescents - a "filter" if you like.
>>
>> >>
>> >> >Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
>> >> >where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
>> >> >go to the shop and build your own!
>> >>
>> >> I'd love to see you fit an Edison based bulb in my ceiling fans (light
>> >> fixture <1" thick).
>> >> >
>> >> >I feel your pain!
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >> >the latest generation).
>> >>
>> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >>
>> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >> >CRI.
>> >>
>> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >>
>> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >>
>> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> those who do.
>> >
>> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >
>> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >fixtures.
>> >
>> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >technology.
>> >
>> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >
>> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >two?
>>
>> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
>> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>
>True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
>
>The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
>into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
>the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
>more.
>
>That's all I'm saying.
But then it would be a $600 fan and light;)
Is it possible to put a color gel between the led source and the lens?
You might be able to get the ambiance you want.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 13:34:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:01:49 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >> >> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >> >> >the latest generation).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >> >> >CRI.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> >> those who do.
>> >> >
>> >> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >> >
>> >> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >> >fixtures.
>> >> >
>> >> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >> >technology.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >> >
>> >> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >> >two?
>> >>
>> >> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
>> >> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>> >
>> >True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
>> >
>> >The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
>> >into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
>> >the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
>> >more.
>> >
>> >That's all I'm saying.
>>
>> But then it would be a $600 fan and light;)
>
>Show me the math you used.
>
>>
>> Is it possible to put a color gel between the led source and the lens?
>> You might be able to get the ambiance you want.
>
>That's not how LED color temperature works.
It is in SOME cheap LED apps - There is a set of LED undercounter
lights from Lee Valley that uses stackable selectable filters to
"adjust" the colour trmp.
On Sat, 01 Feb 2020 15:01:49 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>> >> >> hung the darn thing.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>>> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>>> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>>> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>>> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>>> >> >the latest generation).
>>> >>
>>> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>>> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>>> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>>> >>
>>> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>>> >> >CRI.
>>> >>
>>> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>>> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>>> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>>> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>>> >>
>>> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>>> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>>> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>>> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>>> >>
>>> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>>> >> those who do.
>>> >
>>> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>>> >
>>> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>>> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>>> >fixtures.
>>> >
>>> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>>> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>>> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>>> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>>> >technology.
>>> >
>>> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>>> >
>>> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>>> >two?
>>>
>>> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
>>> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>>
>>True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
>>
>>The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
>>into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
>>the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
>>more.
>>
>>That's all I'm saying.
>
>But then it would be a $600 fan and light;)
>
>Is it possible to put a color gel between the led source and the lens?
>You might be able to get the ambiance you want.
With reduced lumen output and a depreciated cri
On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 15:58:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:43:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >>>> hung the darn thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >>>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >>> the latest generation).
>> >>
>> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >>
>> >>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >>> CRI.
>> >>
>> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >>
>> >>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >>
>> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> those who do.
>> >
>> > I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >
>> > Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> > to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> > fixtures.
>> >
>> > If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> > (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> > light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> > already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> > technology.
>> >
>> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >
>> > How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> > two?
>>
>> One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
>> is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
>
>But I didn't say give it away. I even said in an earlier post that I'd pay
>that extra buck or two for that switchable color temperature.
A buck in the bill of materials is more like ten bucks retail. They
made the marketing decision that not enough customers would pay the
additional to offset those who didn't care about that option and
bought another company's product.
>
>>
>> You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
>> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
>
>I was talking about color temperature, not color of LED. Soft White, Bright
>White, Daylight, etc. Not blue, green, red. I used the term "color temperature"
>in my other posts but accidentally left out the word "temperature" in the
>one you just responded to. My bad.
But color temperature doesn't (necessarily) change the CRI. Actually,
the reference for CRI changes with color temperature (5000K and above
vs, less than 5000K, iirc). You'd have to change the color to change
the CRI (and that wouldn't be easy).
>The Commercial Electric unit I linked to has a switch for 5 choices of color
>temperature. That's what I would like to see in my fan and that's what I'd pay
>a buck or two extra for.
I have a utility light that has a variable color temperature too. It
gives up a lot of lumens to another similar unit from the same
company, at the same price point.
>>
>> Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:15:51 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:21:37 -0500, ads wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>
>>>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>circuit board. ;-)
>>
>>I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
>>bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
>>lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
>>
>>The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
>>find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
>>a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
>>color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
>>on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
>>fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
> I have found the opposite. I've switched virtually everything over to
>the daylight bulbs and after a very short period of adjustment have
>found it VERY GOOD.I can use 60 watt equivalents in place of 100 watt
>bulbe and single 4 foot tube replacements give as much visibility as
>twin tube flourescents with dekux cool white -which is what I
>generally used.
+1
I've put all 6500K lights in my shop and bathroom. Daylight lights
appear brighter than warmer temperatures. Other lamps have varying
color temperatures because the intention isn't bright light, rather
ambiance.
On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>
>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>
>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>
>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>
>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>
> Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
> in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
> in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
> fixture?
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>
> I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>
Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
a dozen suggestions with each being different.
Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
products on display and lit up.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>
>> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> hung the darn thing.
>> >>
>> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>
>> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>
>> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> circuit board. ;-)
>> >>
>> >
>> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >the latest generation).
>>
>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> not LEDs, IMO.
>>
>> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >CRI.
>>
>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>>
>> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>>
>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> those who do.
>
>I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>
>Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>fixtures.
>
>If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>technology.
>
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>
>How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>two?
The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>>
>> >Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
>> >where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
>> >go to the shop and build your own!
>>
>> I'd love to see you fit an Edison based bulb in my ceiling fans (light
>> fixture <1" thick).
>> >
>> >I feel your pain!
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:27:11 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 9:50:09 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:54:53 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> > The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> > That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >
>> >> > You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> > exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> > hung the darn thing.
>> >> >
>> >> > You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> > too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >
>> >> > That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> > LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> > dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >
>> >> > I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> > still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> > own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> > circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> >
>> >Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> >in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> >in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> >fixture?
>> >
>> >https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>> >
>> >I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>> I just gave the answer. Don't buy off Amazon. There ARE suppliers
>> that give you a choice.
>
>What the f are you talking about? I already said that I didn't buy anything
>on Amazon. You have no clue what I'm talking about.
You said that in a message AFTER the one I replied to. ANd I DO know
what your talking about. Do you have to flush your toilet 15 times
too??? <BG>
On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>>
>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>>
>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>>
>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>>
>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>>> the latest generation).
>>
>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> not LEDs, IMO.
>>
>>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>>> CRI.
>>
>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>>
>>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>>
>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> those who do.
>
> I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>
> Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
> to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
> fixtures.
>
> If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
> (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
> light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
> already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
> technology.
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>
> How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
> two?
One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>hung the darn thing.
>
>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>circuit board. ;-)
I'm longing for the days when I could get a lantern/flashlight
which didn't blind me with the back scatter. I do like how the LEDs
can be used half the night, night after night, for a long camp out.
But being blinded by the light is a pain. Literally when you trip
over something obscured by the glare.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:43:35 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:43:31 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>>>>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>>>>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>>>>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>>>>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>>>>> the latest generation).
>>>>
>>>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>>>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>>>> not LEDs, IMO.
>>>>
>>>>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>>>>> CRI.
>>>>
>>>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>>>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>>>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>>>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>>>>
>>>>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>>>>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>>>>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>>>>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>>>>
>>>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>>>> those who do.
>>>
>>> I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>>>
>>> Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>>> to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>>> fixtures.
>>>
>>> If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>>> (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>>> light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>>> already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>>>
>>> How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>>> two?
>>
>>One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
>>is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
>>
>>You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
>> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
>>
>>Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
>>
>>
>>
>Except the controller can not control the cheap tech currently used.
A multicolor light kit requires multiple LEDs of different colors.
Just putting a controller on a single LED won't change the color.
That's determined either by the chemistry of the LED for direct
emission LED or by the chemistry of the phosphor for the white ones.
On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:43:31 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 2/1/2020 1:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>>>
>>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>>>
>>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>>>> temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>>>> CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>>>> Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>>>> LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>>>> the latest generation).
>>>
>>> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>>> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>>> not LEDs, IMO.
>>>
>>>> Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>>>> CRI.
>>>
>>> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>>> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>>> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>>> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>>>
>>>> As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>>>> what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>>>> own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>>>> supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>>>
>>> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>>> those who do.
>>
>> I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>>
>> Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> fixtures.
>>
>> If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> (don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> technology.
>>
>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>>
>> How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> two?
>
>One would think that the cheap technology would be included. BUT that
>is a lost sale of the cheap technology.
>
>You can buy LED multi color and pattern remote controllers for about $5.
> If it were included with every light, no one would buy the Controller.
>
>Manufacturers look at every "PENNY" when considering what will be included.
>
>
>
Except the controller can not control the cheap tech currently used.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 14:32:18 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 11:15:54 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:21:37 -0500, ads wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >>
>> >>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >>hung the darn thing.
>> >>
>> >>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >>
>> >>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >>
>> >>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >>circuit board. ;-)
>> >
>> >I put time and energy in doing research for things with replacebale
>> >bulbs and then usually put "warm white" LED bulbs in those fixtures -
>> >lots easier on your eyes than the blue-white 7000K "daylight" bulbs.
>> >
>> >The light over the mirror in the master bath took a little time to
>> >find (right finish and style for her, replaceable bulbs for me). It's
>> >a three light fixture and the center bulb is incandescent to get the
>> >color temperature of the light to an acceptable range with LED bulbs
>> >on either side of it. Not perfect but it's much better than the
>> >fixture in the basement bath with all LEDs.
>> I have found the opposite. I've switched virtually everything over to
>> the daylight bulbs and after a very short period of adjustment have
>> found it VERY GOOD.I can use 60 watt equivalents in place of 100 watt
>> bulbe and single 4 foot tube replacements give as much visibility as
>> twin tube flourescents with dekux cool white -which is what I
>> generally used.
>
>But you were able to choose what equivalent wattage and what color to use.
>Even in your 4' tubes you had choices. Not only did you have a choice when
>you bought the LED bulbs, you had the opportunity to return the bulbs and try
>something else. I've done that. That's not what I'm talking about.
>
>I'm talking about things like this:
>
>https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
>
>Love the look of the fan, had to accept the light output. No choice other
>than find a different fan that has different LED specs. I'd basically have
>to choose the fan based on the light specs since I can't choose my own
>bulbs to see what works best. It's not like they offer different light kits
>for any given fan. 17W, 80 CRI, 1600 lumens. Take it or leave it.
>
>At a minimum, fans and other devices that don't have "sockets" should at
>least have LED's that allow the user to choose their own color temp. I
>bought LED covers for the can lights in the bathroom where I installed the
>fan/light/heater unit. The user has 6 choices of color temperature. I
>couldn't choose the color of the light in the fan/light/heater, but at
>least I could match the color of all the lights by selecting the color temp
>of the can covers.
>
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>
>That entire fixture costs $13, so using a switchable LED panel in the $290
>ceiling fan I linked to above wouldn't add more than a dollar or two to the
>cost of the unit and would make it so much more flexible.
If it bugged me enough "I" would soon have it changed. The LED IS
replaceable. I'd soon find a COB unit the right color temperature to
graft into it, one way or another if it bugged me enough. I've done a
lot more complex than that.
On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>
> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
> hung the darn thing.
>
> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>
> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>
> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
> circuit board. ;-)
>
With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
the latest generation).
Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
CRI.
As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
Ceiling fans are fairly easy to adapt in a traditional Edison base light
where you can easily install high CRI bulbs. A table lamp requires you
go to the shop and build your own!
I feel your pain!
-BR
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:22:29 -0800, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:40:21 -0800
>(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>
>>You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>hung the darn thing.
>>
>>You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>
>>That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>
>>I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>circuit board. ;-)
>
> I'm longing for the days when I could get a lantern/flashlight
>which didn't blind me with the back scatter. I do like how the LEDs
>can be used half the night, night after night, for a long camp out.
>But being blinded by the light is a pain. Literally when you trip
>over something obscured by the glare.
You CAN buy LED flashlights that have a more "natural" beam pattern
and enough difusion to kill the glare.- but they don't cost $6 or
less.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:54:53 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> > That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >
>> > You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> > exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> > hung the darn thing.
>> >
>> > You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> > too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >
>> > That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> > LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> > dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >
>> > I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> > still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> > own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> > circuit board. ;-)
>> >
>>
>>
>> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>
>Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>fixture?
>
>https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>
>I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
I just gave the answer. Don't buy off Amazon. There ARE suppliers
that give you a choice.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:29:07 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 10:07:45 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:12:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> >> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >>> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >>> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>> >> >> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> >> >
>> >> > Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> >> > in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> >> > in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> >> > fixture?
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
>> >> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>> >>
>> >> If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
>> >> a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>> >>
>> >> Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
>> >> products on display and lit up.
>> >
>> >I think you are still missing my point.
>> >
>> >We didn't buy the ceiling fan on Amazon. I was merely showing you type of LEDs
>> >I'm talking about. Unreplaceable, built into the fixture. That's the type of
>> >LED in my new ceiling fan.
>> >
>> >We bought the fan at a fancy-ass lighting store. Sure, it was on display
>> >and lit up. Right along with 50+ other fans and hundreds of lighting fixtures.
>> >
>> >There's no way you can tell how the light will look in your home under those
>> >conditions. Not the light fixture, the light that the fixture casts.
>> >
>> >My point is that even if they had a way to completely replicate my lighting
>> >conditions in the store so that the light would look exactly as it would at
>> >home, I'd still be stuck with that light because that is what comes with the
>> >fan I want.
>> >
>> >To put it another way, if I buy this, I get the only light kit that comes
>> >with the fan I like:
>> >
>> >https://www.lampsplus.com/sfp/16P15/
>> >
>> >If I buy this, I can chose what bulbs I use - but I don't want this type
>> >of light kit.
>> >
>> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-Glendale-42-in-LED-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-with-Light-Kit-AM212-WH/300937520
>> >
>> >That's what I mean by "the problem with LEDs". The tail wagging the dog. If
>> >I want to chose my own bulbs, I can't buy the fan I want.
>> Back in the incandescent days you were basically stuck with one
>> color too - unless you wanted red or yellow or green or purple.
>
>Who said anything about incandescents? I said fixtures with *sockets*. Once again: clueless.
>
No, you missed the point. The situation isn't worse than it was in
"your day". There _was_ only one color of incandescent bulbs (two if
you count halogens). There is a choice now, even if you don't like
the choice.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:42:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/30/2020 6:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>>
>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>>
>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>>
>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>>
>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>>> with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>>
>> Reread my post. Tell me how I chose the correct color/temperature/lumens
>> in a ceiling fan with a built in light kit or a bathroom fan with a built
>> in light kit? You know, these kinds of light kits which are wired into the
>> fixture?
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Othmro-Aluminum-Circuit-Module-Diameter/dp/B07VGDP42P
>>
>> I'm not talking about replaceable off-the-shelf bulbs.
>>
>
>Well you don't buy something that could look differently, off of Amazon.
> Buy from a local store so that you can see what you are actually getting.
>
>If you were looking for Barn Red paint on Amazon you would probably get
>a dozen suggestions with each being different.
>
>Almost every fixture at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc has these type
>products on display and lit up.
ANd if I go to my local electrical supply I can order a LOT that you
will NEVER see at ANY of those places. In some cases I can even custom
order something that is not in the catalog by ordering one item and a
part from a similar item - like a fan I like and the light from a
similar fan that will fit and is the color temp I want. I've even done
that at a local lighting store.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 22:18:24 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:49:16 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:10:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/29/2020 9:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>>>> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>>>>
>>>> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>>>> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>>>> hung the darn thing.
>>>>
>>>> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>>>> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>>>>
>>>> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>>>> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>>>> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>>>>
>>>> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>>>> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>>>> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>>>> circuit board. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You must be shopping in the wrong places. I am having no issues at all
>>>with choosing the correct color/temperature/lumens.
>> You aren't shopping at Home Despot or Lowes or some discount online
>>retailer. (and you are likely not paying MUCH more than the guys who
>>"never pay retail"
>
>I can buy screw in bulbs at Home Depot that let me set the color
>temperature wherever I want it through a fairly broad range. Or for
>more bucks just any bloody color I want.
Like I said - -
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 13:34:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 4:01:49 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:45:44 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 2:48:44 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:25:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:46:57 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On 1/29/20 8:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> >> >> The problem is that LED's are being built into all sorts of things these days.
>> >> >> >> That means that you can't always choose your own lumens or color temperature.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You find the perfect ceiling fan with built-in light kit and the light isn't
>> >> >> >> exactly to your liking. Of course, you don't really know that until you've
>> >> >> >> hung the darn thing.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You find that really nice reading lamp for next to the couch and the light's
>> >> >> >> too harsh. Now you have work out a way to dim it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> That bathroom fan/light/heater that you spent hours cramming into the ceiling?
>> >> >> >> LED light that flickers when you dim it. So you install an LED compatible
>> >> >> >> dimmer but the light doesn't dim as much as you like.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I long for the good old days (4, maybe 5 years ago? Sooner?) when you could
>> >> >> >> still buy stuff that had those little round sockets that you could screw your
>> >> >> >> own bulbs into. Now all we can get are those little yellow squares on a
>> >> >> >> circuit board. ;-)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >With LEDs, the critical factor once you find a reasonable color
>> >> >> >temperature is to get a high CRI (color rendition index). Getting a high
>> >> >> >CRI is still the bane of LED mfgs. Cheap LEDs are always low CRI (< 80).
>> >> >> >Good LEDs are 95+ and much more expensive. Unlike incandescent bulbs,
>> >> >> >LEDs don't color shift (grow warmer) as they dim (unless you pay up for
>> >> >> >the latest generation).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would you want a lamp to get "warmer" as it's dimmed? Ideally the
>> >> >> color should remain the same. That's a problem with incandescents,
>> >> >> not LEDs, IMO.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Either way, any fixture with permanent LEDs is most likely to have a low
>> >> >> >CRI.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it matters. Mostly, I don't care. I want to see. Sure, bathrooms
>> >> >> and maybe bedroom (for the vain) nay need as true if a color as
>> >> >> possible. For my shop, I just want lights as efficient (read, bright)
>> >> >> as I can get them. An area used for painting may need true color.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >As to your point, the only options are to wait for the market to realize
>> >> >> >what people really want without paying high dollar or build/modify your
>> >> >> >own (current mode power supply, high CRI LEDs from an electronics
>> >> >> >supplier, and a knack for hacking up new items 8^)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Already done. People don't want to pay so the supply is expensive for
>> >> >> those who do.
>> >> >
>> >> >I agree with just about all of your comments here, except for this one.
>> >> >
>> >> >Color switching technology is inexpensive and would add a lot of flexibility
>> >> >to many fixtures, including (especially?) ceiling fans and bathroom
>> >> >fixtures.
>> >> >
>> >> >If Commercial Electric can include 5 color options in a $13 fixture, surely
>> >> >(don't call me Shirley) it could be included in any device that uses an LED
>> >> >light kit. The additional cost would be minimal since the light kit is
>> >> >already included in the cost. Just need to add the color switching
>> >> >technology.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-5-6-in-Matte-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Trim-5-Ways-NS01aA11FR1-259/303780862
>> >> >
>> >> >How much of that $13 is taken up by the switching technology? A buck? Maybe
>> >> >two?
>> >>
>> >> The color temperature has little to do with the CRI. A high CRI needs
>> >> a "flat" color spectrum, rather than a few monochromatic bands.
>> >
>> >True, but that $13 fixture (supposedly) has a CRI of 90 *and* is switchable.
>> >
>> >The point was this: If they can put a high CRI and 5 color temp options
>> >into a $13 fixture, then surely a ~$300 fan - which already has the rest of
>> >the LED fixture included - could add those 2 features for a buck or two
>> >more.
>> >
>> >That's all I'm saying.
>>
>> But then it would be a $600 fan and light;)
>
>Show me the math you used.
Added feature and marketing budget adds up. It was a joke anyway.