I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
that dictates one use plywood?
Jim
On Sep 7, 5:57=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/7/10 4:51 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
> > "-MIKE-"<[email protected]> =A0wrote
>
> >> I'm thinking the same thing.
> >> Like putting a pick-up truck bed in your pick-up truck bed as a bed li=
ner.
>
> > =A0 That works, but why not make functioning doors, if you go to the ef=
fort of
> > making doors?
>
> You're preaching to the choir. =A0 :-)
>
Is there anything more amazing than a large group of voices that know
what they're doing?
One year (the year the first shuttle went up) I was walking near the
open windows of The Chapel at Cambridge (University) when I suddenly
heard a few random human voices doing scales. The voices formed around
a common song and many other voices fell in and a kaleidoscope of
sound emanated from the open windows and hit me with both a warming
and chilling experience I shall never forget.
The Choir of King's College was practicing. One of the few warm April
mornings and then this.
I could have died right then and there. You can't buy shit like that.
We punted the river Cam and nothing I could do to ever lose that
sound. That experience messes with my head.....to this very day.
No wonder I like harmonies so much. Everly Brothers, Peter & Gordon,
Mamas and The Papas, CSNY, Hollies....shit, I could go on and on.
.
.
.
Talk about going off on a tangent....
? =A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? =A0Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
>
> Jim
This sounds like a really cool project. You could build the whole
thing as frame and panel. This is how case work (dressers, amoire,
etc.) are built. The concept would be to make some nice beefy legs at
the corners and build some nice panels. I would use like 1/2" panles
so you could glue up 3/4 panels and find a shop with a wide belt
sander to let you flatten and dimension them. Try to select a common
width, say 12" max for all panels so you can just glue up a bunch of
appropriate stock. them.
See these (this) example
http://plansnow.com/dn1134c.html
http://www.thefind.com/furniture/info-kitchen-island-woodworking-plans
jtpr wrote:
> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
> that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
> refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
> necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
>
> Jim
Regardless of how you wind up building it, think about how you intend to use
it first...with a sink is one thing, with a cooktop another and just counter
space is still another.
You need to think about the intended use because that dictates the sort of
storage incorporated in it. For example, if it is to house a cooktop,
you'll want to store pans and skillets and other stuff like spatulas, hot
pads, maybe large forks and ladles, etc. Relative to those things, here are
a couple of suggestions...
1. IMO, deep drawers for pots and pans are a royal pain; I much prefer
shallow sliding trays behind doors.
2. In fact, *most* drawers are a pain because most wind up with a jumble
of stuff; they need to be divided and an easy way to do that is to cut
shallow "V" grooves along each side (or front to back depending on what is
to be stored) spaced maybe 1" - 1 1/2. You can then cut/sand thin pieces of
wood with a matching "V" to use as dividers. Make the fit sloppy.
Drawers - even shallow ones - can also be fitted with sliding trays; there
are all sorts of things that fit nicely in an inch or a bit more of space.
3. Everybody wants a pullout cutting board. I don't. I want one that I
can easily take out and set on the counter to carve/slice/cut something. We
have that - two, in fact - but most of the time we we use a small chopping
block that resides on top of the island where it is always handy. It is
about 7 1/2" square so it doesn't take much room, plenty large enough for
slicing a tomato, chopping onion, trimming a chop, slicing bread.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
=A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? =A0Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
>
> Jim
Frame and panel construction accounts for the seasonality of panel
movement if built properly. Second reason to go with panels is I don't
belive you will ever find plywood to match well with your homwgrown
wood, maybe but not very likely.
> A couple of weeks later I come home and there is a pile of wood ~10' x
> 12' x 5' high. =A0I stood there thinking "what the hell will I do with
> all of this?". =A0Luckily my neighbor also does woodworking and has a
> lot more land then I do (my lot is 50'x125'). =A0So I told him I would
> split it with him if he would store it there for me. =A0He helped me
> stack it in layers and now, a year and half later, it's is testing
> dry. =A0The only bad thing was they guy milled it as just over 4/4. =A0Bu=
t
> the longest pieces are 12+ feet and maybe 12" wide at the widest
> point.
>
> The milling cost $80.
Jim
Real nice haul. I did not know anything about the usual size of
cherry trees.
Thanks
Bob AZ
(snip)
I see. So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my
wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
-Jim
A few years ago I built a kitchen island. I believe it was someone in this
group who told me to use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for my panels. That way when
they get bump they don't seem hollow like 1/4" plywood does. I followed the
advice and it made a huge difference.
When I saw your post that hint popped into my head.
Larry C
On Sep 7, 3:49=A0pm, "chaniarts" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Bob AZ wrote:
> >> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> >> milled on the property.
> >> Jim
>
> > Jim
>
> > Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
> > from your cherry tree?
>
> > Bob =A0AZ
>
> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple boxes,
> then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that matched the profil=
es
> of the doors.
So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over the
ply?
-Jim
On Sep 7, 3:32=A0pm, Bob AZ <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> > milled on the property.
> > Jim
>
> Jim
>
> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
> from your cherry tree?
>
> Bob =A0AZ
Well, that was kind of a surprise. The tree had to come down as I
didn't trust it so close to the house/cars, and it didn't look overly
healthy. Anyway, when they came to take it down I asked them if they
could mill me anything that looked relativity straight, thinking I'd
get a few pieces. They said sure, they knew a guy with a mill that
would do it and they would drop it back off.
A couple of weeks later I come home and there is a pile of wood ~10' x
12' x 5' high. I stood there thinking "what the hell will I do with
all of this?". Luckily my neighbor also does woodworking and has a
lot more land then I do (my lot is 50'x125'). So I told him I would
split it with him if he would store it there for me. He helped me
stack it in layers and now, a year and half later, it's is testing
dry. The only bad thing was they guy milled it as just over 4/4. But
the longest pieces are 12+ feet and maybe 12" wide at the widest
point.
The milling cost $80.
Now it's time to do something with it. My skills up to this point
have been small, jewelry boxes, tea boxes, pens, outdoor shower, bar
top. So I'm kind of excited to take on a real cabinet project. I
like the frame and panel idea, that would be great.
The dimensions of the carcass will likely be 2'x4', so I could do
maybe 4" panels on the side and 6" on the back? The problem might be
that I only have a 4" jointer. I suppose I could edge glue 2 4"
boards for each section in the back and have them be 8" panels. Does
this make sense? Guess I'll do a sketchup drawing and see if it looks
right.
-Jim
On Sep 7, 2:11=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/7/10 12:49 PM, jtpr wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 7, 12:48 pm, Robatoy<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On Sep 7, 11:17 am, jtpr<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >>> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. =A0I am going to use a sla=
b
> >>> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> >>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> >>> milled on the property. =A0I thought it would be nice to build this f=
rom
> >>> that. =A0But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet buildin=
g
> >>> refers to using plywood for the carcass. =A0Now, I could just use che=
rry
> >>> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is thi=
s
> >>> necessary? =A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have =
and
> >>> used that in lieu of the plywood? =A0Are there reasons of seasonality
> >>> that dictates one use plywood?
>
> >>> Jim
>
> >> A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square.
> >> Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your
> >> cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid
> >> cherry (or take stain....*gasp*)
> >> Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat
> >> horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the
> >> granite.
> >> The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and
> >> hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge
> >> locations.
>
> > I see. =A0So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my
> > wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
>
> > -Jim
>
> There's a trend running amok in all the McMansions around here in which
> they build kitchen islands out of base cabinets. They take a big base
> cabinet or two, screw them together and stick a counter top on it. Then
> they take cheap-@$$ molding and trim out the corners and seems.
*gag* I know. Have they no shame?
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
> Thanks for the lesson! I too am thinking of doing an island and have saved
> your post for reference.
I would like to make one observation, about his post.
The advice given is very accurate, and astute, if you are considering it
from a custom cabinet shop point of view, or from a general contractor's
view. It is also a good idea to keep things simple and using standard base
unit construction, if you are building the project for yourself and your
skill level may not be up to pulling off an all out custom unit all in one
piece.
If you are relatively skilled in the art of cabinet and/or furniture making,
you should still seriously consider not using a modified base cabinet
construction concept, but instead, challenge yourself and go for a one piece
custom unit.
It is possible to pull it off, and have it be functional and beautiful, and
be the source of much satisfaction and pride. Additionally, you can add
features and maximize the function to have it be the best solution possible
for your intended use.
I'm just saying, don't totally neglect the possibility of designing your own
unit. You still may decide to go with the standard base unit modified for
the job, but make your own decision.
--
Jim in NC
"chaniarts" <[email protected]> wrote
> sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan and
> kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if swmbo
> would have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would have done them
> myself.
>
> the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look like
> doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look like a box
> made out of panels.
I followed that. You do not see any of the plywood box, but it is there to
give strength, ease of construction, and a place to attach the panels.
Easier to build, I suppose, but it seems like a bit of extra expense for
materials, but it would save on labor. If your labor is free (cost wise, at
least) then I would go with real frame and panels.
--
Jim in NC
On 9/9/2010 11:28 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "Lobby Dosser"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Thanks for the lesson! I too am thinking of doing an island and have saved
>> your post for reference.
>
> I would like to make one observation, about his post.
> If you are relatively skilled in the art of cabinet and/or furniture making,
> you should still seriously consider not using a modified base cabinet
> construction concept, but instead, challenge yourself and go for a one piece
> custom unit.
You will notice that my reply was made directly to the OP's initial post
and addressed the original question in the context in which it was
presented.
Saves a lot of useless blather, like your above ...Which has absolutely
nothing to do with the OP's self professed situation.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 9/7/2010 1:49 PM, jtpr wrote:
> On Sep 7, 12:48 pm, Robatoy<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 11:17 am, jtpr<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
>>> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>>
>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>> milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
>>> that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
>>> refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
>>> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
>>> necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
>>> used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
>>> that dictates one use plywood?
>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square.
>> Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your
>> cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid
>> cherry (or take stain....*gasp*)
>> Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat
>> horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the
>> granite.
>> The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and
>> hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge
>> locations.
>
> I see. So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my
> wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
That is what I did. Used Cheery ply for the carcass and trimmed out with
cherry for the face frame, drawer fronts on one side and false fronts on
the other. Used maple for the cutting board and solid surface for the
top. Took about 6 months to complete.
You can see the result at URL:
http://pws.prserv.net/poetry/KitchenIsland01.html
Marty
Thanks for the images. How well does that slide out on the cutting board
hold up long term? I'd be a little worried about using a cleaver on frozen
meat there.
-- C
Marty <[email protected]> wrote in news:SYyho.60890$co1.21914
@newsfe11.iad:
> http://pws.prserv.net/poetry/KitchenIsla
On Sep 7, 4:13=A0pm, jtpr <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 3:32=A0pm, Bob =A0AZ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> > > milled on the property.
> > > Jim
>
> > Jim
>
> > Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
> > from your cherry tree?
>
> > Bob =A0AZ
>
> Well, that was kind of a surprise. =A0The tree had to come down as I
> didn't trust it so close to the house/cars, and it didn't look overly
> healthy. =A0Anyway, when they came to take it down I asked them if they
> could mill me anything that looked relativity straight, thinking I'd
> get a few pieces. =A0They said sure, they knew a guy with a mill that
> would do it and they would drop it back off.
>
> A couple of weeks later I come home and there is a pile of wood ~10' x
> 12' x 5' high. =A0I stood there thinking "what the hell will I do with
> all of this?". =A0Luckily my neighbor also does woodworking and has a
> lot more land then I do (my lot is 50'x125'). =A0So I told him I would
> split it with him if he would store it there for me. =A0He helped me
> stack it in layers and now, a year and half later, it's is testing
> dry. =A0The only bad thing was they guy milled it as just over 4/4. =A0Bu=
t
> the longest pieces are 12+ feet and maybe 12" wide at the widest
> point.
>
> The milling cost $80.
>
> Now it's time to do something with it. =A0My skills up to this point
> have been small, jewelry boxes, tea boxes, pens, =A0outdoor shower, bar
> top. =A0So I'm kind of excited to take on a real cabinet project. =A0I
> like the frame and panel idea, that would be great.
>
> The dimensions of the carcass will likely be 2'x4', so I could do
> maybe 4" panels on the side and 6" on the back? =A0The problem might be
> that I only have a 4" jointer. =A0I suppose I could edge glue 2 4"
> boards for each section in the back and have them be 8" panels. =A0Does
> this make sense? =A0Guess I'll do a sketchup drawing and see if it looks
> right.
>
> -Jim
Just a heads up, your wood needs to test at 6-8 % moisture content to
be cabinet grade ready. 20% good for framing lumber only.
RP
On Sep 7, 11:17=A0am, jtpr <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. =A0I am going to use a slab
> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> milled on the property. =A0I thought it would be nice to build this from
> that. =A0But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
> refers to using plywood for the carcass. =A0Now, I could just use cherry
> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
> necessary? =A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? =A0Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
>
> Jim
A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square.
Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your
cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid
cherry (or take stain....*gasp*)
Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat
horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the
granite.
The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and
hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge
locations.
On Sep 7, 12:48=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 11:17=A0am, jtpr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. =A0I am going to use a slab
> > of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> > I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> > milled on the property. =A0I thought it would be nice to build this fro=
m
> > that. =A0But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
> > refers to using plywood for the carcass. =A0Now, I could just use cherr=
y
> > ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
> > necessary? =A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have an=
d
> > used that in lieu of the plywood? =A0Are there reasons of seasonality
> > that dictates one use plywood?
>
> > Jim
>
> A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square.
> Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your
> cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid
> cherry (or take stain....*gasp*)
> Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat
> horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the
> granite.
> The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and
> hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge
> locations.
I see. So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my
wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
-Jim
On 9/7/10 12:49 PM, jtpr wrote:
> On Sep 7, 12:48 pm, Robatoy<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 11:17 am, jtpr<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
>>> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>>
>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>> milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
>>> that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
>>> refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
>>> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
>>> necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
>>> used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
>>> that dictates one use plywood?
>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square.
>> Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your
>> cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid
>> cherry (or take stain....*gasp*)
>> Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat
>> horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the
>> granite.
>> The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and
>> hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge
>> locations.
>
> I see. So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my
> wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
>
> -Jim
There's a trend running amok in all the McMansions around here in which
they build kitchen islands out of base cabinets. They take a big base
cabinet or two, screw them together and stick a counter top on it. Then
they take cheap-@$$ molding and trim out the corners and seems. So what
you end up with a face frame on 1 side and corner trim everywhere
else.... an island that only looks good from one side.... kind of like
Maui. :-)
Base cabinets were never meant to be seen on all 4 sides. They only
reason they are passable is because they use pre-finished plywood for
the cases. I *have* seen it done where they used the same wood as the
face frame and trimmed it out so it looked like face frames all the way
around. But those are trim carpenters on a job site using prefabbed
cabinets.
If I were doing it from scratch... and I soon will be on an "isthmus" in
our kitchen... I would build the whole thing with frame and panel
construction.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Bob AZ wrote:
>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>> milled on the property.
>> Jim
>
> Jim
>
> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
> from your cherry tree?
>
> Bob AZ
we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple boxes,
then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that matched the profiles
of the doors.
On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>> milled on the property.
>>>> Jim
>>
>>> Jim
>>
>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>> from your cherry tree?
>>
>>> Bob AZ
>>
>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple boxes,
>> then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that matched the profiles
>> of the doors.
>
> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over the
> ply?
>
> -Jim
I'm thinking the same thing.
Like putting a pick-up truck bed in your pick-up truck bed as a bed liner.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
jtpr wrote:
> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>> milled on the property.
>>>> Jim
>>
>>> Jim
>>
>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>> from your cherry tree?
>>
>>> Bob AZ
>>
>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple
>> boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that
>> matched the profiles of the doors.
>
> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over the
> ply?
>
> -Jim
yes. i'm not sure how the panels are attached to the boxes though, as i only
saw the install rather than the building. i'm assuming glue because there
are no screw holes on the interiors.
they are a lot heavier than usual, though, due to this construction method.
our island is made the same way. full size deep pot drawers on one side
facing the stove, cabinet doors for small appliances on the other, with
wide but shallow drawers above for rolling pins, and both ends have raised
panels.
On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>> milled on the property.
>>>> Jim
>>
>>> Jim
>>
>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>> from your cherry tree?
>>
>>> Bob AZ
>>
>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple boxes,
>> then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that matched the profiles
>> of the doors.
>
> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over the
> ply?
>
> -Jim
Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad.
It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size of
the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there. They
just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2" of box
around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain box.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>>> milled on the property.
>>>>> Jim
>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>
>>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>>> from your cherry tree?
>>>
>>>> Bob AZ
>>>
>>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple
>>> boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that
>>> matched the profiles of the doors.
>>
>> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over
>> the ply?
>>
>> -Jim
>
> Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad.
> It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size
> of the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there.
> They just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2"
> of box around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain
> box.
sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan and
kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if swmbo would
have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would have done them myself.
the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look like
doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look like a box
made out of panels.
chaniarts wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
>>> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>>>> milled on the property.
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>>>> from your cherry tree?
>>>>
>>>>> Bob AZ
>>>>
>>>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple
>>>> boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that
>>>> matched the profiles of the doors.
>>>
>>> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over
>>> the ply?
>>>
>>> -Jim
>>
>> Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad.
>> It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size
>> of the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there.
>> They just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2"
>> of box around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain
>> box.
>
> sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan
> and kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if
> swmbo would have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would
> have done them myself.
> the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look
> like doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look
> like a box made out of panels.
found a picture of it
http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/chaniarts/House/?action=view¤t=DSC00466.jpg
On 9/7/10 4:35 PM, chaniarts wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
>>> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>>>> milled on the property.
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>>>> from your cherry tree?
>>>>
>>>>> Bob AZ
>>>>
>>>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple
>>>> boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that
>>>> matched the profiles of the doors.
>>>
>>> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over
>>> the ply?
>>>
>>> -Jim
>>
>> Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad.
>> It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size
>> of the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there.
>> They just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2"
>> of box around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain
>> box.
>
> sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan and
> kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if swmbo would
> have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would have done them myself.
>
> the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look like
> doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look like a box
> made out of panels.
>
right on.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/7/10 4:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:
> chaniarts wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/7/10 3:23 PM, jtpr wrote:
>>>> On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, "chaniarts"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Bob AZ wrote:
>>>>>>> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
>>>>>>> milled on the property.
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a curiosity but what are the dimensions of the largest boards
>>>>>> from your cherry tree?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob AZ
>>>>>
>>>>> we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple
>>>>> boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that
>>>>> matched the profiles of the doors.
>>>>
>>>> So he made the boxes from ply, and then put the raised panels over
>>>> the ply?
>>>>
>>>> -Jim
>>>
>>> Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad.
>>> It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size
>>> of the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there.
>>> They just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2"
>>> of box around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain
>>> box.
>>
>> sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan
>> and kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if
>> swmbo would have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would
>> have done them myself.
>> the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look
>> like doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look
>> like a box made out of panels.
>
> found a picture of it
>
> http://s587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/chaniarts/House/?action=view¤t=DSC00466.jpg
>
>
Yes, those look much, much better. They look like they could be frame
and panel.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/7/10 4:51 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "-MIKE-"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I'm thinking the same thing.
>> Like putting a pick-up truck bed in your pick-up truck bed as a bed liner.
>
> That works, but why not make functioning doors, if you go to the effort of
> making doors?
You're preaching to the choir. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Swingman wrote:
> A kitchen island is a "kitchen" component, subject to unique wear and
> tear, including changes in temperature and RH, that a piece of furniture
> sitting in your living room is not generally subjected to, and most of
> the time ultimately looks like it indeed belongs in the former, instead
> of the latter.
>
> ...
Thank you for a good lesson, Swingman. Great post.
Bill
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Thanks for the lesson! I too am thinking of doing an island and have saved
your post for reference.
>
> Another caveat: when deciding upon which advice to take in this thread,
> you may want a bit of 'show and tell' photographic evidence that the
> adviser has some actual practical experience in the task ... which
> "chaniarts" nicely provides on the design side.
A particularly Sage piece of advice! :)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9/8/2010 6:11 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Thanks for the lesson! I too am thinking of doing an island and have
>> saved your post for reference.
>
> Let me know if I can help in any way ...
Thanks.
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 15:07:59 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sep 7, 2:11 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 9/7/10 12:49 PM, jtpr wrote:
>> There's a trend running amok in all the McMansions around here in which
>> they build kitchen islands out of base cabinets. They take a big base
>> cabinet or two, screw them together and stick a counter top on it. Then
>> they take cheap-@$$ molding and trim out the corners and seems.
>
>*gag* I know. Have they no shame?
In a McMansion, shame is a _given_.
--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson
"Robatoy" <[email protected]>
I could have died right then and there. You can't buy shit like that.
We punted the river Cam and nothing I could do to ever lose that
sound. That experience messes with my head.....to this very day.
No wonder I like harmonies so much. Everly Brothers, Peter & Gordon,
Mamas and The Papas, CSNY, Hollies....shit, I could go on and on.
.
.
.
Talk about going off on a tangent....
*********************************
There can be no doubt that plenty synapsises firing, but.....
Which one started _that_ revolution? <g>
--
Jim in NC
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
> I'm thinking the same thing.
> Like putting a pick-up truck bed in your pick-up truck bed as a bed liner.
That works, but why not make functioning doors, if you go to the effort of
making doors?
--
Jim in NC
"jtpr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:fec7ba29-7b28-4a6b-a620-e50ff1351af4@f25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
> that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
> refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
> necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
I would never consider using hardwood plywood for an exposed side, like an
island would have. Never. There is no way that the purchased hardwood
plywood will take stain and have the same color and grain that your cherry
lumber will have.
I have done it four ways.
One, glue up 3/4" thick (I will use the hardwood you are using for writing
purposes) cherry for the exposed ends and back. Probably my fourth favorite
way. Objections are that a big expanse of wood with no details looks plain
to me. Also, possible problems with stability due to moisture and
temperature changes. Not as much as an issue if wood has kiln dried and
then seasoned in a heated and cooled environment for a few months, or air
dried for long period then seasoned in the heated and cooled environment for
a few months.
Two, use plywood carcass, then resaw 1/4" to 3/8" thick planks, glue
together to make a veneer to glue on top of the plywood. Must make sure the
cherry is good and dry, and that plywood and planks are seasoned in a heated
and cooled environment for a while, (hopefully in the same environment) so
they will be stable and not shrink at different rates with humidity changes.
Better than above first method, because it will be more stable, and flat and
strong. Still, it is my third favorite way, because of it possibly looking
too plain.
Three, make all of the back and sides with rails and stiles and raised
panels, but without doors. They look kinda' like the doors, but are all
fixed elements. I usually make the rail at the top a good bit taller, for
strength against racking. I also make a toe kick all of the way around. My
second favorite way, because of the interest the panels give to the cabinet.
The wood will match and take stain the same as the doors and drawers side,
being a big bonus.
Four, my favorite way, is to make the ends look like a raised panel but
fixed, or sometimes, I make it as a solid glued up panel out of the cherry.
The plywood floor of the cabinet makes the bottom of the plain panels stay
straight, and I put an extra "cleat" at the top to keep it straight, but
oval out the screw holes (on the inside on the cleat board) to make it have
a bit of humidity expansion ability. Using either of the methods for the
ends, I put a toe kick space all of the way around the island, for interest,
non-scuffing of the panel, and to make the raised panel method look more
like doors. On the long side on the back of the island, I make it like the
front, using a face frame and with raised panel doors. If the island is to
have a overhanging or dropped eating bar, I make the doors low enough to
open under the counter top. The stiles in the middle or end may have to be
a bit wider, to put counter-top braces. (if they are needed) I like this
way the best, because it makes for a very interesting detailed surface, and
most of all, it is just plain handy to be able to get at the cabinet storage
space from the other side, at times. For islands where there are drawer
stacks, or it is otherwise unpractical to use functioning doors, I still
make a frame and door long side, but permanently fix some or all doors in
the closed position.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gives you some ideas.
--
Jim in NC
On 9/7/2010 10:17 AM, jtpr wrote:
> I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab
> of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
>
> I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had
> milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from
> that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building
> refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry
> ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this
> necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
> used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality
> that dictates one use plywood?
A kitchen island is a "kitchen" component, subject to unique wear and
tear, including changes in temperature and RH, that a piece of furniture
sitting in your living room is not generally subjected to, and most of
the time ultimately looks like it indeed belongs in the former, instead
of the latter.
Design parameters dictate material choices. A "kitchen island" generally
incorporates a toekick on one or two sides as a necessity for performing
kitchen chores when standing at its surface; usually an electrical
receptacle mounted one, or both, end panels; perhaps sinks, cutting and
serving space, and cooktops on its surfaces; drawers and/or cabinet
doors on one work side; cabinet shelves with doors on the opposite,
which may also incorporate multi-level seating; and often some sort of
shelving built into the sides; and generally has a counter top surface
that can be a considerable weight.
That it may look like a "base cabinet" at the end of a run is no
accident, as form follows function in a well designed kitchen.
Most of the solid wood, furniture like suggestions in this thread are
nice, idealistic, ideas, but, IME of designing and building kitchens
that contain kitchen islands, most will prove impractical for both the
environment and the above design requirements.
The idea of a solid wood kitchen island is indeed possible, if you can
pull it off ... however, your professed skill level may be severely
challenged doing this satisfactorily enough to stand the test of time.
Seriously consider the advantages of using a kitchen "base cabinet"
methodology of cabinet construction, at least in part, as well as making
maximum use of the dimensional stability of a cabinet grade plywood for
any panels, reserving your hardwood for your stiles, rails, and trim
elements, while still coming up with a design that works well, and looks
nice in a kitchen environment.
Another caveat: when deciding upon which advice to take in this thread,
you may want a bit of 'show and tell' photographic evidence that the
adviser has some actual practical experience in the task ... which
"chaniarts" nicely provides on the design side.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 9/8/2010 6:11 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> Thanks for the lesson! I too am thinking of doing an island and have
> saved your post for reference.
Let me know if I can help in any way ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)