I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
using the included bit set.
No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
material almost instantly.
I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
[email protected] wrote:
> I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
> as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
>
> I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
> to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
> sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
>
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
> BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
>
Is the bit FIRMLY locked up in the chuck ?? or is it slipping ??
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
> as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
>
> I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
> to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
> sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
>
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
> BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
>
Strange problem that I have never heard of.
The bit should be turning FAST. Is it?
YOU ARE CHANGING the bit when you change chisels aren't you.
The bit is still spinning fast when actually drilling?
And lastly, have you tried these chisel and bits on another type wood?
[email protected] wrote:
> I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> ...
>
>
Is the bit oriented so that the chip ejection slot empties into
the part of the mortise that has already been made?
--
FF
[email protected] wrote:
> Is the bit oriented so that the chip ejection slot empties into
> the part of the mortise that has already been made?
I can't even get the first "hole" made...within the first 3/8" of
plunge, the bit is already clogged. So far a second hole is out of the
question!
[email protected] wrote:
> I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> ...
>
>
Is the bit oriented so that the chip ejection slot empties into
the part of the mortise that has already been made?
--
FF
Leon wrote:
> Is the waste stringy?
> How much does the bit stick out past the chisel?
> Is the bit a relative close fit inside the chisel? The chips should not be
> getting stuck between the insides of the chisel and the bit.
I get very little waste before the jam, so it's hard to say, but best I
can tell it's not stringy at all. And of course the material I clean
out of the chisel is a wadded mess.
I've been using the technique on charlie b's site for setting the
clearances, but I even tried huge swings either way on clearance and it
didn't help.
As for how the bit fits inside the chisel, everything _seems_ okay,
although I will say the machining on the bit itself is beyond horrid.
charlie b wrote:
> I'm going to go with a dull bit. Not the spur that
> severs the grain at the outside of the hole, but the
> edge that peels off the wood for the hole. If dull
> it would tear out chunks instead. Chunks can
> clog things up whereas shavings won't.
Upon further inspection, if I had to guess, I'd say this is the
problem. Nothing about these bits is sharp. Not one edge. Too, the
machining marks left behind are a disgrace. The chisels themselves
seem okay, but again, not great.
When I get home from work this evening, I'm going to chuck-up just the
bit and leave the chisel off altogether and see how far I get.
>
> If necessary file the edge then refine with
> slip stones. The sharper that edge the easier
> the drilling. The easier the drilling, the
> easier it is for the chisel to do its job.
>
> As for the Forty Cent Method for setting the
> bit to chisel spacing - thank the Fisch rep.
> I just did the illustration and put it up on
> my site.
Which is the hard part. Hell, the Fisch rep just told a story! Again,
thanks for all the good info on your site...I mine that on a regular
basis.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
> as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
>
> I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
> to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
> sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
>
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
> BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
As others have said, the bit itself is the culprit. They (mine) came from
the factory virtually useless. After sharpening the bit, smoothing the
waste flutes and honing the chisel, it works very well. I do use a bit of
bees wax as a lubricant as well. This keeps the chips from getting stuck
between the waste flutes and chisel.
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlie [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > When I get home from work this evening, I'm going to chuck-up just the
> > bit and leave the chisel off altogether and see how far I get.
>
>
> Don't use just the bit. These puppies
> ARE NOT as beefy as their "dedicated
> just to making holes" cousins. To
> increase shavings/chip removal, the
> gullets (for want of a better term)
> are deeper than their cousings, and
> while they can take compression well,
> they can deflect more. Deflect enough
> and they snap - which is not good.
>
A careful test though, just to verify that the bit will drill and extract
waste should be no problem.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Leon wrote:
>> Is the waste stringy?
>> How much does the bit stick out past the chisel?
>> Is the bit a relative close fit inside the chisel? The chips should not
>> be
>> getting stuck between the insides of the chisel and the bit.
>
> I get very little waste before the jam, so it's hard to say, but best I
> can tell it's not stringy at all. And of course the material I clean
> out of the chisel is a wadded mess.
>
> I've been using the technique on charlie b's site for setting the
> clearances, but I even tried huge swings either way on clearance and it
> didn't help.
>
> As for how the bit fits inside the chisel, everything _seems_ okay,
> although I will say the machining on the bit itself is beyond horrid.
>
If you have rough spots along the bit the waste could be getting caught up
on that. The bit should be smooth.
I'm going to go with a dull bit. Not the spur that
severs the grain at the outside of the hole, but the
edge that peels off the wood for the hole. If dull
it would tear out chunks instead. Chunks can
clog things up whereas shavings won't.
If necessary file the edge then refine with
slip stones. The sharper that edge the easier
the drilling. The easier the drilling, the
easier it is for the chisel to do its job.
As for the Forty Cent Method for setting the
bit to chisel spacing - thank the Fisch rep.
I just did the illustration and put it up on
my site. That said - you're welcome. Pass
it on when you can.
charlie b
charlie [email protected] wrote:
>
> When I get home from work this evening, I'm going to chuck-up just the
> bit and leave the chisel off altogether and see how far I get.
Don't use just the bit. These puppies
ARE NOT as beefy as their "dedicated
just to making holes" cousins. To
increase shavings/chip removal, the
gullets (for want of a better term)
are deeper than their cousings, and
while they can take compression well,
they can deflect more. Deflect enough
and they snap - which is not good.
In fact, too much torque will also
shear them into two parts - also not
good.
charlie b
CW wrote:
>
> If the drill bit can be filed, throw it away and get a good one.
>
We're not talking about a normal twist bit here. This
is a mortising bit, and it's often part of a chisel and
bit set. Replacements can run $20 - $40 each. And
they can be sharpened with a small file, there is a
file made specifically for this purpose. After fine
filing a little work with slips stones and it's good
as new, and perhaps sharper. Takes maybe 5 minutes.
So 5 minutes of your time vs minimum of $20 for
replacing comes to $240 an hour. Seems like a
pretty good equivalent hourly rate to me.
charlie b
CW wrote:
>
> Then your saying that the bits are crap as standard.
Ever bought a chisel that was really sharp and honed
to a perfect cutting edge? How about a hand plane's
iron?
I'd hardly call a Two Cherries bench chisel crap.
Nor would I call the iron in a Lee Nielsen plane
crap. Both will work as purchased - sort of.
But they will work a lot better with a few minutes
of my time - and they will lose their edge in use.
Sharpening is just part of maintenance of edged
tools.
A crappy tool is one you can't make work well
with a just a little "tuning" and the knowledge
of what needs "tuning".
This goes with "expectations vs reality".
Some try and buy knowledge and skills, or
at least think they can - in no small part
because of marketing departments. Those
folks are often disappointed - and sometimes
get hurt.
Oh - if you have any dull forstner bits you're
going to throw away - send them to me.
Assuming YOU didn't try drilling through
something other than wood or haven't
burned them too bad - I could probably
use them. My e-mail address is good.
Drop me a line and I'll e-mail the address
to which to send them. (never know when
an english teacher is out searching for
dangling perpositions - word to the wise)
charlile b
Are you sure you have the correct drill bit for the chisel?
Ted
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
> as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
>
> I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
> to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
> sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
>
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
> BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've never used a mortise machine but I've always assumed they were a
> modified drill press, beefed up in spots.
>
> Therefore, some adjustments might be in order. Like maybe, rpm? Is it
> adjustable, and have you tried slower or faster speeds to see if that
> made any difference?
>
Nope no adjustable speeds at least on the ones that I have seen.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
You have to hone the chisel and sharpen the bits.
On a stone, smooth the outside of the chisel. One the inside, Lee Valley
has a tool for sharpening it. It is a cone shaped wheel. Take a small file
to the bit and file the same angle as on the bottom of the cutting blade and
on the side.
If you don't do these two steps, you will never get a good mortise. There
may be better chisel and bit sets around but these as they come from the
factory are crappy.
So you set the bit right? On mine it says to set the chisle 1/16" from
seated then set the drill to seat, then move the chisle up to seated.
Mine is a Powermatic and I have to feed it pretty fast and hard in short
increments, going slow just starts to burn.
m
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a newly purchased Delta 14-651 hollow-chisel mortiser, and I am
> using the included bit set.
>
> No matter where I set the bit clearance, no matter how fast/slow I feed
> the bit, and no matter how deep I go per pass, my bit clogs with
> material almost instantly.
>
> I'm using well-dried cherry, and the 5/16" bit seems to do okay. But
> as soon as I step up to the 3/8" bit, it clogs. Same with the 1/2".
>
> I know the included bit sets aren't the highest quality, but I'd like
> to investigate technique mistakes before I go blaming my tools. (And
> sending more $$ to LV for their Japanese set!)
>
> Any help would be mondo appreciated!!
>
> BTW, thanks to charlieb web page about clearance setting!
>
If the drill bit can be filed, throw it away and get a good one.
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to go with a dull bit. Not the spur that
> severs the grain at the outside of the hole, but the
> edge that peels off the wood for the hole. If dull
> it would tear out chunks instead. Chunks can
> clog things up whereas shavings won't.
>
> If necessary file the edge then refine with
> slip stones. The sharper that edge the easier
> the drilling. The easier the drilling, the
> easier it is for the chisel to do its job.
>
> As for the Forty Cent Method for setting the
> bit to chisel spacing - thank the Fisch rep.
> I just did the illustration and put it up on
> my site. That said - you're welcome. Pass
> it on when you can.
>
> charlie b
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <<<__ Bob __>>> wrote:
>> >
>> Is the bit FIRMLY locked up in the chuck ?? or is it slipping ??
>
> Nope...chucked-up to within an inch of its life. When the bit clogs,
> it usually stalls the motor. (And if it doesn't stall it, I pretty
> much get that seemingly ever-familiar scent of burnt cherry...)
>
Is the waste stringy?
How much does the bit stick out past the chisel?
Is the bit a relative close fit inside the chisel? The chips should not be
getting stuck between the insides of the chisel and the bit.
Then your saying that the bits are crap as standard.
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
> >
> > If the drill bit can be filed, throw it away and get a good one.
> >
>
> We're not talking about a normal twist bit here. This
> is a mortising bit, and it's often part of a chisel and
> bit set. Replacements can run $20 - $40 each. And
> they can be sharpened with a small file, there is a
> file made specifically for this purpose. After fine
> filing a little work with slips stones and it's good
> as new, and perhaps sharper. Takes maybe 5 minutes.
> So 5 minutes of your time vs minimum of $20 for
> replacing comes to $240 an hour. Seems like a
> pretty good equivalent hourly rate to me.
>
> charlie b