Hello,
I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the price
is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a professional.
How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
regards, cyrille
>How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
If you want to be business-like, you have to consider your overhead.
Not just electricity, but wear and tear on machines, an allowance for
maintenance, costs for consumables (like saw blades and sharpening
expenses), etc. How much do you have invested in equipment? Do you
feel like you should get some return on your investment in addition to
a fee for labor? What if you screw up something and have to buy more
wood, who pays for the mistake?
If the answer to all these items is no or not me then you will get more
work than you want or need. To keep from being taken advantage of you
must charge at or near market value for your work.
Cliff
Cyrille de Br=E9bisson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the pr=
ice
> is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
I don't.
The guy for whom I do most of my handyman favors feeds my cats
and changes the litter box when I'm out-of-town. That may be a
comment on the quality of my work.
You can charge enough so as to keep the volume of work at an
acceptable level. or start bumming favors in return, or ask your
friends to help you so they can learn how to do for themselves.
--=20
FF
Woodworker A builds a piece in 50 hours and woodworker B does the same
piece in 25 hours. Are they both worth the same hourly wage. Of course
not. What the market will bear is the true value. I am now building a
reproduction piece and learning new skills so its taking me longer to
learn carving etc then some of you more experienced people. That said I
agree with $0 and you owe me one., after paying for material.
In all things, it depends. If, for example, you are making a custom
sized sofa table of furniture grade quality, stop in to a quality
furniture store, get the retail price of a similar item, and price your
work to a friend at 50% of retail, getting the material cost up front.
Often, I have said "hey, I'll make one and if you like it, you can buy
it, if not, I'll keep it" and price it on the above basis, and guess
what, they have always bought it, likely because they see the quality
and craftsmanship.
On the other hand, if its a pine bookcase out of straight oneby stock
and/or plywood with applied edging, 2 or possibly 3 (depending on
whether you are to stain or otherwise finish the work) may not be
unreasonable.
Bottom line for me with friends and family is not to try and compete,
or suggest you are competing, with the Walmart/Target/Kmart furniture
of the world, and if that is what your friends expect, tell them to go
to Walmart as it is cheaper in the short run. Then after they move
once or twice and the particleboard falls completely apart, they'll be
back for some quality work at a price that will give them value long
term. I've done this several times and guess what - they do indeed
come back once they realize the long term value of a solid piece of
woodworking.
Mutt
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
Whatever you feel your time is worth.
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hello,
>
>>> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
>>> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
>>> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
>>> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
>>> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
>>> professional.
>>>
>>> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
>> Do you have a job? What does it pay per hour?
> A whole lot more than I can charge a friend, I am a R&D manager...
>
>>You can base it roughly from there taking into account the value of your
>>free time.
>
>> I only ask to reimbursed for materials when building something for
>> friends. I don't charge labor.
> that is what I do for close friends, but it's hard to resist the
> temptation when the other offers to pay you and there is that nice tool
> that would be great for that job that they are asking, plus these other
> tools.... drool....
>
>> I explain it thusly:
>> "Woodworking for me is enjoyable. I am not about to turn it into a job
>> and stop enjoying it."
> yes, but tools are not cheap, and you could do some stuff with your wife
> instead...
>
>
> regards, cyrille
By trade, I am a software engineer, so I am the person my familiy and
friends call whenever they have a computer problem, or need a website
developed etc.... what I do is just tell them they owe me one. :)
So far I have had drywall work done, a shed built (well, they helped me
build it), automobile repairs, gravel hauled (I paid for the gravel) and
probably a few other things I am forgetting.
It comes in handy being able to call in favors when you need them. :)
In article <[email protected]>, Cyrille de Brébisson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
The couple of times I've charged for my work I've quoted on a per job
basis after figuring materials and time, and then logged every task and
the time it took.
I was looking to get $25 - $30 an hour. The reality was about $15. That
tells me that
a) my expectations for the market are high
b) I'm a lousy estimator
c) I'm not as good/efficient a wooddorker as I think I am when quoting
d) all of the above
But it depends on who you're quoting to. A few years back, a neighbor
(my son and their's were school chums) asked if I could modify the
cabinets where their fridde fit. It wasn't a big job, but at the time I
didn't have a blade for the circ saw I trusted for cutting melamine, so
I told them I'd do the work for the cost of a blade.
Suddenly, the modification wasn't that important to them. They wanted a
freebie, plain and simple.
;-)
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> that is what I do for close friends, but it's hard to resist the
> temptation when the other offers to pay you and there is that nice tool
> that would be great for that job that they are asking, plus these other
> tools.... drool....
>
Well, when new tools are the incentive, that is a different story.
"Gee, I would really like to build those picture frames for you but I really
need a 24" drum sander to do it. They are on sale this weekend!"
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:16:07 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
>keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
>starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
>advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the price
>is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a professional.
>
>How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
Another way to come up with a price that avoids using hourly costs is
twice the cost of materials for friends, three times the cost for
everyone else.
-Leuf
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
I've done some work for an acquaintance where I built two custom tables.
Personally, I'd forget about trying to figure out an hourly rate. In my
experience as an intermediate-level woodworker, I'd be very depressed if I
figured out the amount I charged for labor and divided it by the number of
hours it took to find my hourly rate. Instead, decide the amount you want
to clear out of the deal to make it worth your time. If your real concern
is generating additional money to cover tool expenses, I'd bet you could
find something else that could generate $$ faster than woodworking. As a
computer network consultant, it would be *way* easier for me to pick up some
side work for $500 than to generate that much profit from woodworking.
YMMV.
todd
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:42:57 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Leuf wrote:
>>
>> Another way to come up with a price that avoids using hourly costs is
>> twice the cost of materials for friends, three times the cost for
>> everyone else.
>
>I've never bought into that at all.
>
>So, if you build the identical item from painted MDF, at @ $0.75 bd/ft,
>and highly figured cherry @ $11 bd/ft, you'd charge different labor
>numbers? You'd be working for peanuts on at least one of the projects.
The MDF is going to go together with little to no sanding and a paint
job while the cherry is going to go through a much more eleborate
preparation and finishing process. Plus expensive materails assumes,
not necessarily correctly, a higher degree of craftsmanship.
That said, if you make the same table out of oak and walnut, it makes
more sense to add the cost difference between the two after the
multiplication.
>Also, I can put many more hours into a fighly detailed mini-chest than I
>can in a California king sized bed. Compare the materials costs in
>those jobs.
Use your head. It's a general guide, a starting point.
I can build something in 5 hours. It takes you 10 hours to build the
exact same thing. Is yours worth twice as much? You probably should
be making half as much as I do, but how do you know that? If you are
just doing things for friends you don't really have a market to help
you gage where you stand.
If you really want to be profiting, you charge whatever the market
will bear. Then from that you look at what your hourly wage works out
to be to decide whether it's worth doing. But if you're just doing
the odd job you need some way of coming up with a reasonable figure.
-Leuf
depends on the situation. I'm retired now, so income from the shopis really
just beer money (or tool money....). My goal is to keep the shop
self-supporting, and to maybe make enough extra to cover some materials for
the occasional thing I make for myself or family.
When folks want me to build them something from scratch, I usually tell them
to take a loof at a high end furniture catalogue (I keep a few in the shop),
and find something simialr to what they're looing for, then add about 10-25%
to get a ball park price range (this is for customers, not friends). I use
pompanoosic mills, Ethan Allen, and a Maine craftsman who's name escapes me
right now.....
For folks that want to learn how to do it themselves, I charge a flat
$25/hour plus lumber (I supply sandpaper and normal expendables. dependingon
their finish, they either can use somethign I have on hand, or buy their
own....). I always point out that this will almost ceratinly end up costing
them more than if I just built it for them. This is also what most of my
"income" business is now.
For friends, it really depends on the job and circumstances. I've had
friends come to me when they were on hard times, and really needed something
for themselves or thier kids - they're not looing for anything fancy, but
something to coer a need. Usually in those cases and have been able to find
enough stuff to make it for them. I also have friends that insist on paying
full price - they can afford it, know what the stuff I make is worth, and
understand that it is not necesary, but is appreciated.
YMMV
--_JD
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
>
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
>
If you are too busy with that kind of work then you are charging too little.
If you are not busy enough then you are charging too much.
Doug
$40 per hour or more.
cm
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
>
henry wrote:
> Woodworker A builds a piece in 50 hours and woodworker B does the same
> piece in 25 hours. Are they both worth the same hourly wage. Of course
> not. What the market will bear is the true value. I am now building a
> reproduction piece and learning new skills so its taking me longer to
> learn carving etc then some of you more experienced people. That said I
> agree with $0 and you owe me one., after paying for material.
>
AlohaCliff wrote:
>
> If the answer to all these items is no or not me then you will get more
> work than you want or need. To keep from being taken advantage of you
> must charge at or near market value for your work.
If you charge proper rates, you will often get referrals from other pros
and even suppliers.
Charging "hobbyist rates"? You'll get treated like one, by suppliers as
well as your local peers. There's actually nothing at all wrong with
that, as long as we remember that it dosen't usually work both ways.
Also remember that if you exceed a sideline income threshold, you're
open for business in the eyes of the IRS and local tax authorities,
whether you want to admit it or not. The IRS doesn't really care if
it's your full-time gig or not. The good news is that stuff you would
have bought for your hobby now becomes deductible against the income it
brings in. Have a really bad year in between some really good ones?
Small business losses can actually reduce your "day gig" tax burden.
A few hours with a good local CPA can be a great value if you really
want to make a go of it. He or she can help you get properly set up,
get a simple accounting system going (like Quickbooks), and sleep better
at night.
Have fun!
Frank Ketchum wrote:
> "Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
>>keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
>>starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
>>advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
>>price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
>>professional.
>>
>>How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>>
>
>
> Do you have a job? What does it pay per hour? You can base it roughly from
> there taking into account the value of your free time.
> I only ask to reimbursed for materials when building something for friends.
> I don't charge labor. I explain it thusly:
> "Woodworking for me is enjoyable. I am not about to turn it into a job and
> stop enjoying it."
>
>
G'day Frank,
I'm with you on this one. I make toys and small gifts to sell at the
local monthly markets. I make enough to buy a new tool every now and
then and to keep me in smokes. The point is I only make what I want to
and what I enjoy. This way labour is not a problem as putting a price on
fun is pretty hard.
regards
John
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
Do you have a job? What does it pay per hour? You can base it roughly from
there taking into account the value of your free time.
I only ask to reimbursed for materials when building something for friends.
I don't charge labor. I explain it thusly:
"Woodworking for me is enjoyable. I am not about to turn it into a job and
stop enjoying it."
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
It depends on how much free time you have, how much you enjoy doing the
work, and how good you are.
If you are a busy person, do good work, and have enough woodworking of your
own to keep you busy, charge $50/hour. If you have a lot of free time, need
a project to do, and are still learning, charge $10/hour. Etc.
henry wrote:
> Woodworker A builds a piece in 50 hours and woodworker B does the same
> piece in 25 hours. Are they both worth the same hourly wage. Of course
> not.
Not a single person in this thread ever said that, because that's
stupid. <G> A certain level of ability and efficiency is required, and
for discussion purposes, it has to be assumed. The person who works too
slowly simply won't make money, regardless of the cost of materials, or
the business.
How does this fit in with pricing the work as a multiple of material
cost? That's what I'm discussing, actually making some sort of profit
on your labor vs. multiplying material costs.
It's easy to say " charge what the market will bear", but what does that
really mean, and how does one find out on a one-off job?
A good starting point is KNOWING what it truly _costs_ YOU (or your
organization) per hour to work. If your personal hourly rate is way too
high, the discussion is over and the job leaves. A little high?
Negotiation is possible. When you're flat out you actually want some
jobs to leave.
If all of your prices are accepted, your price is too low. Don't get
any jobs at all, but people are still asking? Time to look deeply at
your overhead costs (including your hourly pay), production processes,
customer demographic, etc...
These are very basic business principles used in everything from custom
furniture making, to car repair, to home theater installation, to
driveway paving, to asbestos removal... Any time there's some sort of
billed labor involved.
"Art" is a whole 'nuther story...
Leuf wrote:
>
> If you really want to be profiting, you charge whatever the market
> will bear. Then from that you look at what your hourly wage works out
> to be to decide whether it's worth doing.
I agree.
However, the cost of total overhead has much more to do with the
achievable hourly wage rate than materials cost when it comes time to
see if it's worth doing.
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> By trade, I am a software engineer, so I am the person my familiy and
> friends call whenever they have a computer problem, or need a website
> developed etc.... what I do is just tell them they owe me one. :)
>
> So far I have had drywall work done, a shed built (well, they helped me
> build it), automobile repairs, gravel hauled (I paid for the gravel) and
> probably a few other things I am forgetting.
>
> It comes in handy being able to call in favors when you need them. :)
>
>
Ahhh - the barter system lives other places as well. We're big on bartering
around here. I'm a software sales guy myself these days but was a Systems
Engineer for several years before moving into sales. That makes me the
go-to guy in our circles for computer problems as well. On top of that I am
the guy that does a bit of a lot of things. Woodworking, construction,
wiring, autobody repair, auto mechanical repair, I can operate heavy
equipment (backhoe, bulldozer, etc.), and some other stuff. Things I hate
to do include sheetrock finishing, plumbing, masonry, anything that requires
a ladder, and some others. It sure is nice to have a few of those
ya-owe-me's in your back pocket when some of these tasks roll around.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Your boss feels the same way. Do the right thing, demand a pay cut.
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Do you have a job? What does it pay per hour?
> A whole lot more than I can charge
In article <[email protected]>,
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leuf wrote:
> >
> > Another way to come up with a price that avoids using hourly costs is
> > twice the cost of materials for friends, three times the cost for
> > everyone else.
>
> I've never bought into that at all.
>
> So, if you build the identical item from painted MDF, at @ $0.75 bd/ft,
> and highly figured cherry @ $11 bd/ft, you'd charge different labor
> numbers? You'd be working for peanuts on at least one of the projects.
>
> Also, I can put many more hours into a fighly detailed mini-chest than I
> can in a California king sized bed. Compare the materials costs in
> those jobs.
>
>
> To charge truly profitable "labor" (in ANY business), the only correct
> way to figure it is to calculate _all_ overhead costs, including but not
> limited to utilites, tool & shop upkeep, salary, incidentals, productive
> and non-productive time, and of course, PROFIT, as an hourly shop rate.
> Chances are, you only need to do this once, and fine tune it
> occasionally.
>
> Don't forget, the best time to raise prices is when you're booked solid,
> not when you "need" to make more. Let the cheaper work leave when
> you're booked. Got open time? Attract new work with a sale!
>
> Now, if you're doing it as a sideline, simply figuring out a flat rate
> (or a new tool, barter, etc...) what you'd like to get for a particular
> project is fine, regardless of material costs.
>
> If you use the second method because you truly don't care about the
> money, do yourself a favor and DON'T keep track of time. If you do,
> you'll probably find out that you don't pay yourself minimum wage. <G>
>
> Barry
Well said. Nothing to add.
r
It depends on your goals and capabilities. I would like to make the hobby
pay for itself and have some fun. In general, I charge 3x the cost of
materials, after I have planned it out. My shop (garage) doesn't allow much
efficiency, so I don't try and don't charge by the hour. I can adjust up or
down as makes sense.
Steve
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
> professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
> regards, cyrille
>
Leuf wrote:
>
> Another way to come up with a price that avoids using hourly costs is
> twice the cost of materials for friends, three times the cost for
> everyone else.
I've never bought into that at all.
So, if you build the identical item from painted MDF, at @ $0.75 bd/ft,
and highly figured cherry @ $11 bd/ft, you'd charge different labor
numbers? You'd be working for peanuts on at least one of the projects.
Also, I can put many more hours into a fighly detailed mini-chest than I
can in a California king sized bed. Compare the materials costs in
those jobs.
To charge truly profitable "labor" (in ANY business), the only correct
way to figure it is to calculate _all_ overhead costs, including but not
limited to utilites, tool & shop upkeep, salary, incidentals, productive
and non-productive time, and of course, PROFIT, as an hourly shop rate.
Chances are, you only need to do this once, and fine tune it
occasionally.
Don't forget, the best time to raise prices is when you're booked solid,
not when you "need" to make more. Let the cheaper work leave when
you're booked. Got open time? Attract new work with a sale!
Now, if you're doing it as a sideline, simply figuring out a flat rate
(or a new tool, barter, etc...) what you'd like to get for a particular
project is fine, regardless of material costs.
If you use the second method because you truly don't care about the
money, do yourself a favor and DON'T keep track of time. If you do,
you'll probably find out that you don't pay yourself minimum wage. <G>
Barry
I don't have much time for working for other people, but usually do it
for free for good friends. For neighbors and others I suggest a gift
certificate from woodcraft or rockler. I never specify an amount and
I know who I want to do favors for now. My next door neighbor is in a
band and goes on the road, I told him I would feed his animals for
free as he's my neighbor. He insisted on giving me something. Again
I suggested gift certificates which he could do on line. Near as I
can tell all woodworkers should take care of pets. If he goes on the
road for a month I've got my wide belt sander.
Mike M
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:16:07 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
>keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
>starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
>advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the price
>is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a professional.
>
>How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
>
>regards, cyrille
>
Cyrille de Brébisson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and
> they keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and
> I am starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to
> get some advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the
> wood (ie: the price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no
> mean a professional.
>
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
I like the "you owe me one" answers best. The problem with charging for
your labor - even a modest charge - is that you immediately become
classified as a pro in the minds of those paying and they can get pretty
picky.
--
--
dadiOH
____________________________
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"Cyrille de Brébisson" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
For friends, $0 per hour. I don't do any work for money. I refuse to make a
hobby a business because it is not fun any more.
If I wanted to make money at it, I'd have to charge a minimum of $30
hello,
>> I have started to do some simple woodworking for acquaintances, and they
>> keep bringing me more requests from themselves and friends, and I am
>> starting to have real issues pricing my services and wanted to get some
>> advices knowing that the "client" choose and pay for the wood (ie: the
>> price is only labor and tool wear) and that I am by no mean a
>> professional.
>>
>> How much would you charge per hour? $10, $15?
> Do you have a job? What does it pay per hour?
A whole lot more than I can charge a friend, I am a R&D manager...
>You can base it roughly from there taking into account the value of your
>free time.
> I only ask to reimbursed for materials when building something for
> friends. I don't charge labor.
that is what I do for close friends, but it's hard to resist the temptation
when the other offers to pay you and there is that nice tool that would be
great for that job that they are asking, plus these other tools....
drool....
> I explain it thusly:
> "Woodworking for me is enjoyable. I am not about to turn it into a job
> and stop enjoying it."
yes, but tools are not cheap, and you could do some stuff with your wife
instead...
regards, cyrille