Counter top

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Max" wrote:
>>
>> Is it the grout lines? They get dirty?
> ------------------------------------
> They get dirty, they crack, they are a total PITA.
>
> Ripped out all the tile in my last house.


Ever seen what winds up in a carpet? Give me tile anytime.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:20853a5e-b203-472e-bb1c-e3c6bced6bcc@b18g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
>>>> DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
>>>> select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
>>>> really worth doing? Hire a pro.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
>>> the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
>>> doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
>>> can be *quite* expensive.
>>>
>>> The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
>>> acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
>>> "well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
>>> money and learned a lot along the way".
>>>
>>>> There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
>>>> work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.
>>>
>>> I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
>>> happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
>>> long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
>>> start to finish, depending on the complexity.
>>>
>>> Then they haul off the old tops. You have a <nice job>, the sink hole
>>> is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
>>> a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
>>> is hook the plumbing back up.
>>>
>>> Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
>>> and ask for a recommended installer.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> The last two posters bring up a good point. How long is the job to last?
>> What I mean is, I did mine because we were going to redo the whole
>> kitchen and get some solid counter tops (insert recession here). So the
>> job was to last just a couple of years and I went on the cheap about 2
>> weeks before the family holiday party - 4 years ago.
>>
>> Get a few prices first.
>>
>> Larry C
>
> I got prices, no way! Too high! Like I said in my other post I have done
> this before, just looking for recommendations for substrate. It ain't
> rocket science!
> As far as hauling of the old tops, we have a huge roll off dumpster at
> work that just gobbles this stuff up!
> I know about the quick kitchen fix, this is the second redo in 15 years.
> No counter top the first time! I refuse to spend any more money on it than
> necessary because it will get all torn out sooner than later! I will not
> put good, high priced tops on these old cabinets as the whole works needs
> to go away. When we finally do a gut job on the kitchen then I will look
> into solid surface, maybe granite.
> Greg


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

Max

On Apr 30, 9:27=A0pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:

I am a little puzzled myself why you didn't just web search for an
answer and have it instantly.

And for the record smartass, you didn't announce you had slapped
plastic until a day later, well after your first two posts.

No one here knew we were dealing with such an experienced talent.
After all, since you apparently post as much as 10 -12 times a year
here, it seems incredible we didn't know your name when you posted.
THEN we would have known the talent we were responding to in our
posts.

As it was, I thought you were a serious homeowner type that was
looking for some help. You could have done all here that tried to
help a bit by showing your smarmy attitude up front; it is a give
away as to the type of person you are when you think ANYONE owes you
the time of day, much less any respect.

I honestly think the folks here responded to your seeming innocent
question the best way they knew how, not knowing your self proclaimed
level of expertise.

Had I but recognized the name, I would have replied: DAGS

That would have been the end of it. Next time I will.

And really, I don't think any cares what you do; call someone, do it
yourself, set yourself on fire, eat shit and die, it's all the same.

I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, Lee
in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. Do you think we have
some kind of secret referral net? I wish.

> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after =
all
> the valuable information you guys have provided, =A0think I will just sel=
l all
> my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
> everything I need done around the house!
> Greg

Wow. Now that could be a great solution. If that means you will quit
coming around here (since you will have no tools to try to learn how
to use) over and over to taunt folks, troll for responses and to make
an ass out of yourself, I think that is great.

Sell them all!

Go away!

Robert

On Apr 30, 12:09=A0am, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I w=
ill

Its no longer cheap, but I use three quarter inch plywood for my
counter tops and seal them and use the nasty contact cement to adhere
the Formica or similar brand Laminate. Sealing the bottom edge and
rear surface of the back splash (if you use one) against moisture
before adhering it (to the counter) with something like 3M 5200 Marine
caulk should do the trick.

I've seen these old counter tops come out of a tear down after thirty
years and more with nary a bit of evidence of swelling.

But, consider finishing the "drip edge" which is the front of the
counter top protruding past the base cabinets with your best
waterproofing/sealing stuff esp about the area of the kitchen sink as
this is the most vulnerable area.

On Apr 30, 12:09=A0am, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I w=
ill
> be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the substrate=
.
> The last counter was made from laminate and particle board substrate and =
the
> partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am wondering what mater=
ial
> would be best for substrate, something that could hold up to the ocasiona=
l
> saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out o=
f,
> second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommende=
d
> green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad choic=
e.
>
> --
> Greg O

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops. http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro. Spend a few dollars and make sure they
seal all the exposed edges, like inside sink holes and tap holes and
all along the entire back. To get a good seam, if there's going to be
one, is not that easily done.
I would investigate solid surface, acrylic, non-DuPont Corian (too
expensive in most cases) like Meganite, LG and HiMacs.
Nothing to worry about substrates, you get to undermount your sink and
the surface is non-staining and can be refinished in case of damage
or scratches.
There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:00:03 -0600, the infamous "Max"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>
>>>I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive,
>>>(unless
>>>you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or
>>>patterns.
>>>I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old
>>>and
>>>I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job.
>>>If
>>>you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>>>consider anything else that's available.
>>
>> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>> too.
>>
>> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>>
>> --
>> Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
>
>
>Hmm. Would a thin layer of foam suffice?
>
>Max (I'd rather break dishes than chip countertops)

I can replace my entire 12' countertop for $200 and a few hours' work.
I can replace either of my 3' countertops for $20 and a couple hours
of my time. What will your solid surface replacement or tile cost?


>ps: what's a "microway"? <G>

Abalooley no ideas. (Who wrote that? Hands? OK, who started it?)

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
> DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
> select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
> really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
others.

Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
can be *quite* expensive.

The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
"well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
money and learned a lot along the way".

> There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
> work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
start to finish, depending on the complexity.

Then they haul off the old tops. You have a <nice job>, the sink hole
is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
is hook the plumbing back up.

Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
and ask for a recommended installer.

Robert

" Rumple Stiltskin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
>> as simple as what substrate to use?
>>
>> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
>> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
>> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
>> to do everything I need done around the house!
>> Greg
>
>
> Where do you live? ;-)

Lew ihas already spoken for all my Kmart tools, the rest I will hang onto!
Greg

Greg O wrote:
> I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last!
> I will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is
> the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle
> board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
> expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
> something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging
> MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of, second chice
> would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended green
> treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad choice.

Decent, smooth plywood works fine. HD/Lowes generally has D-4 birch; way
over priced for D-4 but useable. Virola works too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
>> Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite,
>> Corian-like) is flammable?
>
> Well, granite isn't flammable in the ordinary sense of the word. Of
> course, most "granite" countertops aren't granite, they are
> "granitic" rock. Which also isn't flammable in the ordinary sense of
> the word.
> The man made ones with mineral particles - they also aren't flammable
> in the ordinary sense of the word - hold the particles together with
> plastic, acrylic often, and I'm guessing the plastic is flammable. Not
> much of it in the material though.
>
> The non-particle ones like Corian have a Class 1A flammability
> rating. They are just *barely* in it, one more point less and they
> would be Class 2.
>> Cite please.
> http://www2.dupont.com/Surfaces_Commercial/en_US/assets/downloads/pdfs/Corian_Technical_Bulletins/Corian_Flammability_Ratings.pdf

BTW, even though granite isn't going to burn it could melt in a house fire.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On May 1, 1:42=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 5/01/10 1:35 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 1, 10:47 am, "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:
>
> >>> "Scott Lurndal"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>>> Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
> >>>> fabricators
> >>>> and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience=
.
>
> >>>> scott
>
> >>> I figured that out!
> >>> I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
> >>> want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
> >>> that they are trying to protect their job.
>
> >>> I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
> >>> posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
> >>> little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
> >>> hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!
>
> >>> Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking c=
an
> >>> be expensive, and difficult to do!
>
> >> After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
> >> flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.
>
> > Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
> > is flammable?
> > Cite please.
> > If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
> > that you talk out of your ass.
>
> Rob, send it to Iceland, maybe they can get my granite counter top to go
> up in flames. =A0It just isn't going to happen in my kitchen.
>
> My wife has tried.
> ;-)
>
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

Corian and -like products have high fire ratings which allow them to
be installed in the most demanding applications. People who actually
do their homework know this.
Granite is hard to light, LOL... even in Iceland they, at best, would
be able to melt it.. but burn? Naaa... that takes a bit more.

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote
>> My question is the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and
>> particle board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
>> expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
>> something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO
>> plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,
>

Not sure where you are going to get your laminate.

I did mine a few years ago and found a Wilson Art distribution center in the
Boston area. They sold to the public and the prices and selection blew away
the big retail guys. They even sold the bevel edge for the front which made
it look real professional.

Just a thought

Larry C

"Greg O" wrote:


> Solid surface is out because of the cost.
>
> Factory made is out because I don't want the seam in the coner of
> the "L".
>
> That leaves me with custom, which I can do myself.
>
> I have the tools!

---------------------------------------
You have the tools as well as an attitude.
Take a hike.

Lew

"Greg O" wrote
>
> Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
> expensive, and difficult to do!
> Greg
You have obviously figured us all out. That is why we spend so much time
bitching and whining with one another. Cause woodworking is just
so...o...o...o...o...o...oo HARD.

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
> as simple as what substrate to use?
>
> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
> to do everything I need done around the house!
> Greg
Maybe you can arrange to do this without whining and complaining incessantly
on this forum.

PULEEEEZE.

"Greg O" wrote:

> I will just sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and
> hire a professional to do everything I need done around the house!

-----------------------------------------
Maybe Goodwill will accept your equipment, but then again, maybe not.

Lew

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>>I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive,
>>(unless
>>you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or
>>patterns.
>>I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old
>>and
>>I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job.
>>If
>>you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>>consider anything else that's available.
>
> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
> too.
>
> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>
> --
> Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.


Hmm. Would a thin layer of foam suffice?

Max (I'd rather break dishes than chip countertops)
ps: what's a "microway"? <G>

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
> as simple as what substrate to use?
>
> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
> to do everything I need done around the house!
> Greg


You can laugh if you want to but I have considered the economics and with my
propensity to collect tools the financial wisdom says to sell the tools.

Max (ain't gonna happen)

Larry Jaques wrote:

>I have to vote (again) for tile.
<snip>

Tile, especially grout, sucks.

Lew

"Greg O" wrote:
>
> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be
> headed to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping
> elsewhere! I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
------------------------------------------------------
If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the
99 cent store.

No need to insult K-Mart or GoodWill.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>I have to vote (again) for tile.
> <snip>
>
> Tile, especially grout, sucks.
>
> Lew

Is it the grout lines? They get dirty? I use either a contrasting color
(in the case of light colored tile) or a dark color with dark tile.
*And* I seal the grout with (silicone sensitive, hide your eyes) silicone.
Works for me.

Max

"Max" wrote:
>
> Is it the grout lines? They get dirty?
------------------------------------
They get dirty, they crack, they are a total PITA.

Ripped out all the tile in my last house.

Lew

"Robatoy" wrote ...
On May 1, 2:05 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > "Max" wrote:
>
> >> Is it the grout lines? They get dirty?
> > ------------------------------------
> > They get dirty, they crack, they are a total PITA.
>
> > Ripped out all the tile in my last house.
>
> Ever seen what winds up in a carpet? Give me tile anytime.
>

Carpet on a countertop???
.
Reminds me of Orson Bean, a totally eccentric actor who was often on Johnny
Carson. Becasue he was so colorful and funny.

He had astroturf installed in his house. He said it looked like grass and
crumbs would fall into it and just disappear. It saved on cleaning.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:46:59 -0600, Lew Hodgett wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

>
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I have to vote (again) for tile.
> <snip>
>
> Tile, especially grout, sucks.


Epoxy grout rules!
-BR

>
> Lew
>
>

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote
> "Max" scrawled the following:


>>Hmm. Would a thin layer of foam suffice?
>>
>>Max (I'd rather break dishes than chip countertops)
>
> I can replace my entire 12' countertop for $200 and a few hours' work.
> I can replace either of my 3' countertops for $20 and a couple hours
> of my time. What will your solid surface replacement or tile cost?
>
>
>>ps: what's a "microway"? <G>
>
> Abalooley no ideas. (Who wrote that? Hands? OK, who started it?)
>
> --
> Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
> -- Raymond Lindquist

But I only have to replace the tile countertop when I get tired of it.
Which may be....never.

Max

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:11:55 -0400, the infamous FrozenNorth
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>On 5/01/10 12:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry
>>> Jaques<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
>>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive,
>>>>> (unless
>>>>> you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or
>>>>> patterns.
>>>>> I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years
>>>>> old and
>>>>> I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement
>>>>> job. If
>>>>> you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't
>>>>> even
>>>>> consider anything else that's available.
>>>>
>>>> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>>>> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>>>> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>>>> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>>>> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>>>> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>>>> too.
>>>
>>> Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great
>>> but
>>> grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.
>>>
>>>> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>>>
>>Exactly, I hate linoleum, we did our kitchen about ten years ago.
>
> I may put I/O carpet down in my kitchen. Then I wouldn't have to put
> on my slippers to get milk in the middle of the night. It has worked
> extremely well in the bathroom.
>
>
>>Granite counter, and about 4" of backsplash, tile from there up to the
>>cabinets, looks great, easy to clean, and no stains yet.
>>
>>Granite was installed by a pro including sink cutout, they had a
>>template came with the new sink we purchesed, I did the sink install and
>>tile backsplash.
>
> Wow, all that ice-cold surface, and Radon, too! <bseg>
>
> --
> Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
> -- Raymond Lindquist


Jeez, Lar, where do you live where the "surface" gets "ice cold". I can
only imagine how refreshing that would be during a typical El Paso summer.

Max

"Steve Turner" wrote:

> Indeed! Come on Lew, when are you going to figure out all amazing
> things you can do with epoxy?
------------------------------

I keep working at it<G>.

Lew

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> There seems to be allot of reading compresion problems here. The first 2-3
> guys to respond to my first post wanted to warn me of the hazzards of
> laminate, insted of aswering a simple question!
> Greg


They didn't know what you meant by "insted".

Max (couldn't resist)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>

With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after all
the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just sell all
my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
everything I need done around the house!
Greg

On Apr 30, 4:15=A0pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
> >will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
> >substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
> >substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
> >wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that coul=
d
> >hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
> >they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior gra=
de
> >plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep are=
a
> >so that makes it a bad choice.
>
> > --
> > Greg O
>
> Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY gr=
oup
> to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
> ready made!
> Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let =
the
> pros do the work!
> I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
> substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.
>
> "confused!"

You asked for advice without detailed information. You got that.
Now go learn some manners.

On May 1, 3:07=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote ...
> On May 1, 2:05 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > > "Max" wrote:
>
> > >> Is it the grout lines? They get dirty?
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > They get dirty, they crack, they are a total PITA.
>
> > > Ripped out all the tile in my last house.
>
> > Ever seen what winds up in a carpet? Give me tile anytime.
>
> Carpet on a countertop???
> .
> Reminds me of Orson Bean, a totally eccentric actor who was often on John=
ny
> Carson. Becasue he was so colorful and funny.
>
> He had astroturf installed in his house. He said it looked like grass and
> crumbs would fall into it and just disappear. =A0It saved on cleaning.

I watch 2 and a Half Men the odd time for a bit of mindless
entertainment. Orson Bean was on that show as a guest. It was pretty
funny.

On May 1, 2:05=A0pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > "Max" wrote:
>
> >> Is it the grout lines? =A0They get dirty?
> > ------------------------------------
> > They get dirty, they crack, they are a total PITA.
>
> > Ripped out all the tile in my last house.
>
> Ever seen what winds up in a carpet? =A0Give me tile anytime.
>

Carpet on a countertop???
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I know, I know...LOL...and I agree that tile on the floor is MUCH
cleaner than carpet would ever be.
We have ONE rug in our entire house and that is leaving as soon as I
am done with the in-floor heating in the bathroom reno.
Wait.. we also have some small ones in front of exit doors. I guess
they're more mats than anything.

On Apr 30, 10:34=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Greg O wrote:
> > I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last!
> > I will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is
> > the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle
> > board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
> > expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
> > something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging
> > MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of, second chice
> > would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended green
> > treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad choice.
>
> Decent, smooth plywood works fine. =A0HD/Lowes generally has D-4 birch; w=
ay
> over priced for D-4 but useable. =A0Virola works too.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Any workshops I have attended, such as Wilsonart, Arborite, Formica,
nevamar all have strongly suggested not to use laminated woods
(Plywoods) as the laminate itself will delaminate the first layer of
ply over time.... and I have seen that happen with a few backsplashes
I crafted for a job.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Greg O" wrote:
>
>> I will just sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a
>> professional to do everything I need done around the house!
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Maybe Goodwill will accept your equipment, but then again, maybe not.
>
> Lew
>
>

Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be headed to
the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping elsewhere! I have
heard Kmart has some nice tools!
;-)
Greg

On May 1, 10:47=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
> >> fabricators
> >> and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.
>
> >> scott
>
> > I figured that out!
> > I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
> > want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
> > that they are trying to protect their job.
>
> > I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
> > posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
> > little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
> > hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!
>
> > Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
> > be expensive, and difficult to do!
>
> After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
> flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.

Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
is flammable?
Cite please.
If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
that you talk out of your ass.

love,

Rob

On Apr 30, 11:58=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, =A0Lee
> in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
> benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. =A0Do you think we have
> some kind of secret referral net? =A0I wish.
>

*I* wish. I'd keep you and others buried in work and in no time we'd
be having scotch and cigars on an head office balcony at the end of
each day. GregO can come and watch....once.

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>
>
>
> Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
> fabricators
> and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.
>
> scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they want
to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit that they
are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the posts
tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a little cranky!
As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither hard, or expensive, at
least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
expensive, and difficult to do!
Greg

On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:54:00 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Greg O" wrote:
>>
>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be
>> headed to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping
>> elsewhere! I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
>------------------------------------------------------
>If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
>skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the
>99 cent store.
>
>No need to insult K-Mart or GoodWill.

Damn, why don't you guys just plonk the bastard and be done with it?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There is such a thing as cabinet grade particle board.
>
> It's not sold in lumber companies or home centers.
> It doesn't die with water contact and should be covered
> with laminate anyway.
>
> Plywood is a bad idea because of warping.
>
> I would look around for either solid surface or
> factory made counter tops with rolled edges and
> back splash.
>
> Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
> accomplish with typical home owner tools.
>
> Long runs that require joining edges also requires special
> router tools to do a professional job.
>
> A cheap counter top is a bad move.(think water in your cabinets)
>
> Greg O wrote:
>> I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
>> will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate.


Solid surface is out because of the cost.

Factory made is out because I don't want the seam in the coner of the "L".

That leaves me with custom, which I can do myself.

I have the tools!
Greg

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Greg O" wrote:
>>
>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be headed to
>> the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping elsewhere! I
>> have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
> ------------------------------------------------------
> If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
> skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the 99
> cent store.
>
>


There seems to be allot of reading compresion problems here. The first 2-3
guys to respond to my first post wanted to warn me of the hazzards of
laminate, insted of aswering a simple question!
Greg

Thanks for the info from those of you that were willing.
Also I apoligize to the innocent people that caught up in the sillyness.
I have decided to keep my tools and buld my own counter top!
Greg

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote
> My question is the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and
> particle board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
> expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
> something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO
> plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,

That would be my choice.


> second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended
> green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad
> choice.

Agree, I'd not use it.

We bought a upper scale house 30 years ago - it was a 747 pilot
house - he had some money. Nice and all - but the kitchen -

It was in tile. - tops and back sides. It was a total pain.

Pans don't sit still and glass dishes ride high on the edges and
skitter around.

My wife used kitchen towels and trivets with rubber feet.

Go to a synthetic material instead of top end before tiles.

Martin

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I have to vote (again) for tile.
> <snip>
>
> Tile, especially grout, sucks.
>
> Lew
>
>

"Greg O" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
>>will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
>>substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
>>substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
>>wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that could
>>hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
>>they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior grade
>>plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep area
>>so that makes it a bad choice.
>>
>> --
>> Greg O
>>
>
>
>Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY group
>to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
>ready made!
>Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let the
>pros do the work!
>I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
>substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.
>
>"confused!"
>


Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
>will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
>substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
>substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
>wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that could
>hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
>they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior grade
>plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep area
>so that makes it a bad choice.
>
> --
> Greg O
>


Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY group
to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
ready made!
Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let the
pros do the work!
I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.

"confused!"

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:09ff455b-73d2-4095-9723-bcbc34b60049@k41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 9:27 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:

I am a little puzzled myself why you didn't just web search for an
answer and have it instantly.

And for the record smartass, you didn't announce you had slapped
plastic until a day later, well after your first two posts.

No one here knew we were dealing with such an experienced talent.
After all, since you apparently post as much as 10 -12 times a year
here, it seems incredible we didn't know your name when you posted.
THEN we would have known the talent we were responding to in our
posts.

As it was, I thought you were a serious homeowner type that was
looking for some help. You could have done all here that tried to
help a bit by showing your smarmy attitude up front; it is a give
away as to the type of person you are when you think ANYONE owes you
the time of day, much less any respect.

I honestly think the folks here responded to your seeming innocent
question the best way they knew how, not knowing your self proclaimed
level of expertise.

Had I but recognized the name, I would have replied: DAGS

That would have been the end of it. Next time I will.

And really, I don't think any cares what you do; call someone, do it
yourself, set yourself on fire, eat shit and die, it's all the same.

I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, Lee
in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. Do you think we have
some kind of secret referral net? I wish.

> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
> all
> the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just sell
> all
> my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
> everything I need done around the house!
> Greg

Wow. Now that could be a great solution. If that means you will quit
coming around here (since you will have no tools to try to learn how
to use) over and over to taunt folks, troll for responses and to make
an ass out of yourself, I think that is great.

Sell them all!

Go away!

Robert

Thanks for the help!
Greg

Robatoy wrote:

> Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
> is flammable?

Well, granite isn't flammable in the ordinary sense of the word. Of course,
most "granite" countertops aren't granite, they are "granitic" rock. Which
also isn't flammable in the ordinary sense of the word.

The man made ones with mineral particles - they also aren't flammable in the
ordinary sense of the word - hold the particles together with plastic,
acrylic often, and I'm guessing the plastic is flammable. Not much of it in
the material though.

The non-particle ones like Corian have a Class 1A flammability rating. They
are just *barely* in it, one more point less and they would be Class 2.

> Cite please.
http://www2.dupont.com/Surfaces_Commercial/en_US/assets/downloads/pdfs/Corian_Technical_Bulletins/Corian_Flammability_Ratings.pdf



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:20853a5e-b203-472e-bb1c-e3c6bced6bcc@b18g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
>>> DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
>>> select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
>>> really worth doing? Hire a pro.
>>
>> Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
>> others.
>>
>> Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
>> the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
>> doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
>> can be *quite* expensive.
>>
>> The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
>> acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
>> "well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
>> money and learned a lot along the way".
>>
>>> There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
>>> work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.
>>
>> I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
>> happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
>> long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
>> start to finish, depending on the complexity.
>>
>> Then they haul off the old tops. You have a <nice job>, the sink hole
>> is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
>> a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
>> is hook the plumbing back up.
>>
>> Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
>> and ask for a recommended installer.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> The last two posters bring up a good point. How long is the job to last?
> What I mean is, I did mine because we were going to redo the whole kitchen
> and get some solid counter tops (insert recession here). So the job was
> to last just a couple of years and I went on the cheap about 2 weeks
> before the family holiday party - 4 years ago.
>
> Get a few prices first.
>
> Larry C

I got prices, no way! Too high! Like I said in my other post I have done
this before, just looking for recommendations for substrate. It ain't rocket
science!
As far as hauling of the old tops, we have a huge roll off dumpster at work
that just gobbles this stuff up!
I know about the quick kitchen fix, this is the second redo in 15 years. No
counter top the first time! I refuse to spend any more money on it than
necessary because it will get all torn out sooner than later! I will not put
good, high priced tops on these old cabinets as the whole works needs to go
away. When we finally do a gut job on the kitchen then I will look into
solid surface, maybe granite.
Greg

On Apr 30, 10:05=A0pm, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*[email protected]> wrote:
> "Greg O" =A0wrote
>
> > Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can=
be
> > expensive, and difficult to do!
> > Greg
>
> You have obviously figured us all out. That is why we spend so much time
> bitching and whining with one another. Cause woodworking is just
> so...o...o...o...o...o...oo HARD.

Duh, I yum getting a HAMMAR, LEE!

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>
>> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
>> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
>> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
>> to do everything I need done around the house!
>> Greg
>
>
> You can laugh if you want to but I have considered the economics and with
> my propensity to collect tools the financial wisdom says to sell the
> tools.
>
> Max (ain't gonna happen)

True enough!
Nice thing about a well equiped shop is very often you can spend a bunch of
cash, and the weekend building something you could have bought for $50.
Greg

On Apr 30, 11:18=A0am, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:

> Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
> accomplish with typical home owner tools.

This, of course, depends upon the corner to be turned. If you can
cover both legs with a single sheet of laminate - no real problem at
all. Yours truly, B.T.D.T.

On Apr 30, 9:16=A0pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Many =A0of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
> > fabricators
> > and installers. =A0They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience=
.
>
> > scott
>
> I figured that out!
> I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they wan=
t
> to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit that the=
y
> are trying to protect their job.
>
> I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the posts
> tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a little cran=
ky!
> As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither hard, or expensive,=
at
> least not compared to hiring it out!
>
> Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can b=
e
> expensive, and difficult to do!
> Greg

With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

On May 3, 4:01=A0pm, Hoosierpopi <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 30, 11:18=A0am, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
> > accomplish with typical home owner tools.
>
> This, of course, depends upon the corner to be turned. If you can
> cover both legs with a single sheet of laminate - no real problem at
> all. Yours truly, B.T.D.T.

Oh yess indeedee... laying up a 5' x 12' sheet of laminate on an L-
shaped top is a regular knee-slapper.
Especially that wandering fold/crease that crawls to the centre of the
sheet, just to terminate itself in a tear.
Ooodles of fun to the inexperienced.
Better buy a couple of sheets...

There is such a thing as cabinet grade particle board.

It's not sold in lumber companies or home centers.
It doesn't die with water contact and should be covered
with laminate anyway.

Plywood is a bad idea because of warping.

I would look around for either solid surface or
factory made counter tops with rolled edges and
back splash.

Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
accomplish with typical home owner tools.

Long runs that require joining edges also requires special
router tools to do a professional job.

A cheap counter top is a bad move.(think water in your cabinets)

Greg O wrote:
> I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
> will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate.

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:54:00 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Greg O" wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be
>>> headed to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping
>>> elsewhere! I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
>>skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the
>>99 cent store.
>>
>>No need to insult K-Mart or GoodWill.
>
> Damn, why don't you guys just plonk the bastard and be done with it?
>
> --
> Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
> -- Raymond Lindquist

Because they are having fun?
Greg

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
> as simple as what substrate to use?
>
> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
> to do everything I need done around the house!
> Greg


Where do you live? ;-)

On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:
>
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> >>
>>
>>
>> Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
>> fabricators
>> and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.
>>
>> scott
>
> I figured that out!
> I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
> want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
> that they are trying to protect their job.
>
> I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
> posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
> little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
> hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!
>
> Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
> be expensive, and difficult to do!

After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it. And in them.
Their real issue seems to be that they seem to think that they are
obligated to provide warranty service on a product someone else
installed with no expectation of a warranty.

On 5/1/2010 9:05 AM, Greg O wrote:
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Greg O" wrote:
>>
>>> I will just sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and
>>> hire a professional to do everything I need done around the house!
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Maybe Goodwill will accept your equipment, but then again, maybe not.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be headed
> to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping elsewhere!
> I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
> ;-)
> Greg

What exactly does your speaking voice sound like given that you end every
sentence with an exclamation point?

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 5/01/10 12:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry Jaques<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>
>>> I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
>>> you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
>>> I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
>>> I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
>>> you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>>> consider anything else that's available.
>>
>> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>> too.
>
> Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great but
> grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.
>
>> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>
Exactly, I hate linoleum, we did our kitchen about ten years ago.
Granite counter, and about 4" of backsplash, tile from there up to the
cabinets, looks great, easy to clean, and no stains yet.

Granite was installed by a pro including sink cutout, they had a
template came with the new sink we purchesed, I did the sink install and
tile backsplash.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 5/01/10 1:35 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On May 1, 10:47 am, "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Scott Lurndal"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>> Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
>>>> fabricators
>>>> and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.
>>
>>>> scott
>>
>>> I figured that out!
>>> I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
>>> want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
>>> that they are trying to protect their job.
>>
>>> I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
>>> posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
>>> little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
>>> hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!
>>
>>> Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
>>> be expensive, and difficult to do!
>>
>> After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
>> flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.
>
> Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
> is flammable?
> Cite please.
> If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
> that you talk out of your ass.
>
Rob, send it to Iceland, maybe they can get my granite counter top to go
up in flames. It just isn't going to happen in my kitchen.

My wife has tried.
;-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> " Rumple Stiltskin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
>>> as simple as what substrate to use?
>>>
>>> I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
>>> all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
>>> sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a
>>> professional to do everything I need done around the house!
>>> Greg
>>
>>
>> Where do you live? ;-)
>
> Lew ihas already spoken for all my Kmart tools, the rest I will hang onto!
> Greg


Damn. I was hoping to score the trim router ...

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:00:03 -0600, the infamous "Max"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive,
>>>>(unless
>>>>you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or
>>>>patterns.
>>>>I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old
>>>>and
>>>>I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job.
>>>>If
>>>>you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't
>>>>even
>>>>consider anything else that's available.
>>>
>>> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>>> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>>> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>>> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>>> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>>> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>>> too.
>>>
>>> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
>>
>>
>>Hmm. Would a thin layer of foam suffice?
>>
>>Max (I'd rather break dishes than chip countertops)
>
> I can replace my entire 12' countertop for $200 and a few hours' work.

Far too difficult. You need to call a pro! :p

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:54:00 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Greg O" wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be
>>> headed to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping
>>> elsewhere! I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
>>skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the
>>99 cent store.
>>
>>No need to insult K-Mart or GoodWill.
>
> Damn, why don't you guys just plonk the bastard and be done with it?

You seem like a level headed fellow, perhaps you can answer a question. Why
did so many people get their knickers in a twist over a simple question?

On 5/2/2010 9:01 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:46:59 -0600, Lew Hodgett wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>
>>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> I have to vote (again) for tile.
>> <snip>
>>
>> Tile, especially grout, sucks.
>
>
> Epoxy grout rules!

Indeed! Come on Lew, when are you going to figure out all amazing things you
can do with epoxy?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 5/2/2010 5:10 PM, Greg O wrote:
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Greg O" wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be
>>> headed to the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping
>>> elsewhere! I have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
>> skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the
>> 99 cent store.
>>
>>
>
>
> There seems to be allot of reading compresion problems here. The first
> 2-3 guys to respond to my first post wanted to warn me of the hazzards
> of laminate, insted of aswering a simple question!
> Greg

It seems ironic for you to claim that people reading your posts have
comprehension problems when you have five misspellings within those two short
sentences.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Greg O" wrote:
>>
>> Don't get your hopes up, Lew. This collection of tools won't be headed to
>> the good will bin! You will have to do your tool shopping elsewhere! I
>> have heard Kmart has some nice tools!
> ------------------------------------------------------
> If your woodworking skills are on a par with your reading compression
> skill set, your tools needs can be adequately met by shopping at the 99
> cent store.
>
> No need to insult K-Mart or GoodWill.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your tool supplier!
;-)
Greg

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
><[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>>I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
>>you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
>>I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
>>I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
>>you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>>consider anything else that's available.
>
>And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>too.

Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great but
grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.

>Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:


>I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
>you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
>I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
>I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
>you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>consider anything else that's available.

And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
too.

Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:11:55 -0400, the infamous FrozenNorth
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 5/01/10 12:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry Jaques<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
>>>> you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
>>>> I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
>>>> I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
>>>> you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
>>>> consider anything else that's available.
>>>
>>> And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
>>> hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
>>> coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
>>> actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
>>> int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
>>> the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
>>> too.
>>
>> Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great but
>> grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.
>>
>>> Tile? Solid surface? Pass. ;)
>>
>Exactly, I hate linoleum, we did our kitchen about ten years ago.

I may put I/O carpet down in my kitchen. Then I wouldn't have to put
on my slippers to get milk in the middle of the night. It has worked
extremely well in the bathroom.


>Granite counter, and about 4" of backsplash, tile from there up to the
>cabinets, looks great, easy to clean, and no stains yet.
>
>Granite was installed by a pro including sink cutout, they had a
>template came with the new sink we purchesed, I did the sink install and
>tile backsplash.

Wow, all that ice-cold surface, and Radon, too! <bseg>

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist