Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
her street. Thanks, Mike
For heat, it's unlikely that you can beat the gas, but of course it can't be
hoarded like oil.
Remember, gas is almost 100% efficient for heating. A heat pump makes
electric heat at least feasible, but the machinery is much more expensive
than a furnace. BUT, if you have A/C, adding the heat pump isn't all that
much more. Having gas heat and electric A/C may well be the lowest cost,
long term. There are absorption A/C units that use gas for cooling, too,
but I don't know their efficiency. Servel may be a manufacturer.
Adding ducts to an existing house is a bear, so give it all a lot of
thought.
Get at least a couple of bids from dealers of each kind. Be careful of
bidding mulriple types to the same outfit. It's useful info, but they can
also use the bids to steer you the way they want you to go.
If you are in a mild area, A/C and dehumidification may be your biggest
consumers, so go for a high efficiency A/C unit. It will run a lot and
electricity is bound to be going up.
Get a thermostat that can control on humidity. With proper humidity
control, you can be comfortable at higher temps and use less energy.
Learn to read and understand the psychometric chart. It will show you some
important principles. Here's one link, but you'll find many:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0120.html
Wood can help a lot, if you don't have to pay a lot for it and don't get
pushed into an excessively expensive stove installation, which I think may
be a problem in OR, unless you are way out in the country.
Wilson
"John Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
>> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
>> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
>> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
>> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
>> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
>> her street. Thanks, Mike
>>
>
> Mike,
>
> You may be able to contact the local utilities to get an idea of which
> would be more economical locally. And they may or may not have rebates
> available to help with installation or purchase ... that may also sway
> your (or her) decision.
>
> Good luck ...
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> JT
> Speaking only for myself....
Oregon _USED TO_ have relatively cheap power costs, but the days of cheap
hydro are long gone. The two largest power companies in Oregon -- Portland
General Electric (PGE) and Pacific Power & Light (PPL), got swallowed up by
mega energy companies, took on large debt, and power rates soared.
Neither PGE nor PPL ever had access to Bonneville Power Authority (BPA --
look at it like the northwest analog of TVA) from the Army Corps of Engineer
power dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. That BPA hydro was reserved
for municipal power companies (e.g., Seattle City Poer and Light) and
public utility districts (e.g., Clark County PUD). Washington State has
always been receptive to and hospitable to muni power and publc utility
districts. Oregon, wierdly, has been intensely hostile to public power,
with one big geographic exception. Oregon, as a result has had higher
power rates, generally, than Washington state.
The hydro that PGE and PPL had access to was from dams built on private
lands owned by PGE / PPL. Both ompanies ave been rapidly de commissioning
most of their company owned hydro dams and buying on the spot maket. Both
PGE and PPL are owned by mega energy companies hat make most of thei money
by trading power wholesale rather than generating power.
PGE is a part of the Enron debacle. PGE serves most of the Portland area
and the west part of Oregon. Highest power rates in the Northwest and
maybe the highest power rates on the West Coast outside of San Francisco.
PGE and Enron both have paid massive fines for fraudulent wholesale energy
trades related to the west coast power crisis about three years ago.
PPL serves most of the rest of Oregon outside the PGE service area except
for Eugene and Lane County. PPL was taken over several years (?6-8?) by
Scottish Power, which is now trying to peddle PPL to a US based mega energy
company called (?) Mid America Power (?) controlled by billionaire Warren
Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway holding compan.
Wierdly, your daughter in Eugene, if within the city limits, and in some
other parts of Lane County, probably has power from EWEB (Eugene Water and
Electric Board) a municipal power company which has direct access to BPA
hydro power. If she's an EWEB customer, her rates are among the lowest in
Oregon.
Find out from your daughter which power company she has. Go to that
company's web site and look at the current rates, i.e. mills or cents per
kwh.. From there, with the manfacturers' specs on each potetial unit, you
can get a very rough idea of relative costs of operation.
Remember that the most important item in those costs will be unrelated to
power rates or unit effciency. Rather, how "tight" the house is, how well
insulated and protected from air infiltration and exfiltration, will be the
biggest factor in heating / cooling costs. The next biggest factor will be
where she sets the thermostat.
Gut reaction from living in Oreon more than 30 years -- heat pump and
electric resistance heat is the worst way to go. Heat pump compressor
operation is amazingly inefficient -- its just like operating an AC
compressor full time, and electric resistance heat is awful.
Go with high efficiency (90% or better) natural gas fired ducted hot air
system. If she really needs AC, (nd on the west side of the Cascades, she
usually won't), get a whole house AC unit installed in conunction with the
gas unit. There are big purchase credits and state tax credits for
installing high efficiency gas furnaces.
Wood heat is romantic idea. It is not a viable option for full time heat in
a family home. Its too damn much work. I've got two wood stoves in my
house and know how to use them. IMHO, its just more work than is
reasonable. And fire wood is NOT cheap.
Good luck.
--
Jim McLaughlin
Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.
"HMFIC-1369" <[email protected] Baa> wrote in message
news:X0C5f.7674$nk2.6932@trnddc07...
> Oregon used to have cheap Hydro electric (BPA), and plenty of trees. So
I'd
> go heat pump with supp wood stove. I
>
> "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> > question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> > Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> > your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> > supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> > installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> > her street. Thanks, Mike
> >
>
>
Oregon used to have cheap Hydro electric (BPA), and plenty of trees. So I'd
go heat pump with supp wood stove. I
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> her street. Thanks, Mike
>
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> her street. Thanks, Mike
>
Mike,
You may be able to contact the local utilities to get an idea of which
would be more economical locally. And they may or may not have rebates
available to help with installation or purchase ... that may also sway
your (or her) decision.
Good luck ...
--
Regards,
JT
Speaking only for myself....
Things have changed a bit I see. Oregon is blessed with a rather un-extreme
weather pattern for the most part in the valley rather mild summers and mild
winters. If I was moving back and doing a new build the new solar shingles.
Then let them pay me. But having had Coal, Oil, Wood, Natural, Propane,
Electric and Heat Pump. I'd still stick with a new efficient model. I also
like a good wood burning stove. In the winter I use it and the fire places
and don't even touch the stoves or microwave. They also have one great
feature, they need no external power source. So if you loose power, you will
always have access to both heat and cooking.
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughlin> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oregon _USED TO_ have relatively cheap power costs, but the days of cheap
> hydro are long gone. The two largest power companies in Oregon --
Portland
> General Electric (PGE) and Pacific Power & Light (PPL), got swallowed up
by
> mega energy companies, took on large debt, and power rates soared.
>
> Neither PGE nor PPL ever had access to Bonneville Power Authority (BPA --
> look at it like the northwest analog of TVA) from the Army Corps of
Engineer
> power dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. That BPA hydro was reserved
> for municipal power companies (e.g., Seattle City Poer and Light) and
> public utility districts (e.g., Clark County PUD). Washington State has
> always been receptive to and hospitable to muni power and publc utility
> districts. Oregon, wierdly, has been intensely hostile to public power,
> with one big geographic exception. Oregon, as a result has had higher
> power rates, generally, than Washington state.
>
> The hydro that PGE and PPL had access to was from dams built on private
> lands owned by PGE / PPL. Both ompanies ave been rapidly de
commissioning
> most of their company owned hydro dams and buying on the spot maket.
Both
> PGE and PPL are owned by mega energy companies hat make most of thei money
> by trading power wholesale rather than generating power.
>
> PGE is a part of the Enron debacle. PGE serves most of the Portland area
> and the west part of Oregon. Highest power rates in the Northwest and
> maybe the highest power rates on the West Coast outside of San Francisco.
> PGE and Enron both have paid massive fines for fraudulent wholesale energy
> trades related to the west coast power crisis about three years ago.
>
> PPL serves most of the rest of Oregon outside the PGE service area except
> for Eugene and Lane County. PPL was taken over several years (?6-8?) by
> Scottish Power, which is now trying to peddle PPL to a US based mega
energy
> company called (?) Mid America Power (?) controlled by billionaire
Warren
> Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway holding compan.
>
> Wierdly, your daughter in Eugene, if within the city limits, and in some
> other parts of Lane County, probably has power from EWEB (Eugene Water
and
> Electric Board) a municipal power company which has direct access to BPA
> hydro power. If she's an EWEB customer, her rates are among the lowest in
> Oregon.
>
> Find out from your daughter which power company she has. Go to that
> company's web site and look at the current rates, i.e. mills or cents per
> kwh.. From there, with the manfacturers' specs on each potetial unit, you
> can get a very rough idea of relative costs of operation.
>
> Remember that the most important item in those costs will be unrelated to
> power rates or unit effciency. Rather, how "tight" the house is, how
well
> insulated and protected from air infiltration and exfiltration, will be
the
> biggest factor in heating / cooling costs. The next biggest factor will
be
> where she sets the thermostat.
>
> Gut reaction from living in Oreon more than 30 years -- heat pump and
> electric resistance heat is the worst way to go. Heat pump compressor
> operation is amazingly inefficient -- its just like operating an AC
> compressor full time, and electric resistance heat is awful.
>
> Go with high efficiency (90% or better) natural gas fired ducted hot air
> system. If she really needs AC, (nd on the west side of the Cascades, she
> usually won't), get a whole house AC unit installed in conunction with
the
> gas unit. There are big purchase credits and state tax credits for
> installing high efficiency gas furnaces.
>
> Wood heat is romantic idea. It is not a viable option for full time heat
in
> a family home. Its too damn much work. I've got two wood stoves in my
> house and know how to use them. IMHO, its just more work than is
> reasonable. And fire wood is NOT cheap.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> --
> Jim McLaughlin
>
> Reply address is deliberately munged.
> If you really need to reply directly, try:
> jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
>
> And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
> address.
> "HMFIC-1369" <[email protected] Baa> wrote in message
> news:X0C5f.7674$nk2.6932@trnddc07...
> > Oregon used to have cheap Hydro electric (BPA), and plenty of trees. So
> I'd
> > go heat pump with supp wood stove. I
> >
> > "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> > > question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> > > Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> > > your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> > > supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> > > installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> > > her street. Thanks, Mike
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> her street. Thanks, Mike
You might try alt.home.repair
I've been told electric is fairly cheap in that area so you can really
consider electric there.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
On 19 Oct 2005 17:19:05 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, "Mike in
Arkansas" <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
>question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
>Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
>your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
>supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
>installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
>her street. Thanks, Mike
I looked at the costs and went with nat gas 3 years ago when I moved
to Grass Pants, Mike. $6k installed price (took 2 men the better part
of a work week to install) for the 96% efficient heater and AC system
from Carrier. A heat pump isn't as efficient during the summer or
winter, so the supplemental heating elements would have tripled or
quadrupled my electrical consumption in the winter. I think it was a 3
year ROI, so I'm saving money now. I ADORE the system, by the way.
Costs here are low, thankfully. I came from California just prior to
Grey Davis's castration of us, electric-rate-wise. Last month's elec
bill was $27, gas $5.
--
The older I get, the better I was.
----------------------------------
http://diversify.com - Better Website Programming
Jim McLaughlin wrote:
> Oregon _USED TO_ have relatively cheap power costs, but the days of cheap
> hydro are long gone. The two largest power companies in Oregon -- Portland
> General Electric (PGE) and Pacific Power & Light (PPL), got swallowed up by
> mega energy companies, took on large debt, and power rates soared.
>
> Neither PGE nor PPL ever had access to Bonneville Power Authority (BPA --
> look at it like the northwest analog of TVA) from the Army Corps of Engineer
> power dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. That BPA hydro was reserved
> for municipal power companies (e.g., Seattle City Poer and Light) and
> public utility districts (e.g., Clark County PUD). Washington State has
> always been receptive to and hospitable to muni power and publc utility
> districts. Oregon, wierdly, has been intensely hostile to public power,
> with one big geographic exception. Oregon, as a result has had higher
> power rates, generally, than Washington state.
>
> The hydro that PGE and PPL had access to was from dams built on private
> lands owned by PGE / PPL. Both ompanies ave been rapidly de commissioning
> most of their company owned hydro dams and buying on the spot maket. Both
> PGE and PPL are owned by mega energy companies hat make most of thei money
> by trading power wholesale rather than generating power.
>
> PGE is a part of the Enron debacle. PGE serves most of the Portland area
> and the west part of Oregon. Highest power rates in the Northwest and
> maybe the highest power rates on the West Coast outside of San Francisco.
> PGE and Enron both have paid massive fines for fraudulent wholesale energy
> trades related to the west coast power crisis about three years ago.
>
> PPL serves most of the rest of Oregon outside the PGE service area except
> for Eugene and Lane County. PPL was taken over several years (?6-8?) by
> Scottish Power, which is now trying to peddle PPL to a US based mega energy
> company called (?) Mid America Power (?) controlled by billionaire Warren
> Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway holding compan.
>
> Wierdly, your daughter in Eugene, if within the city limits, and in some
> other parts of Lane County, probably has power from EWEB (Eugene Water and
> Electric Board) a municipal power company which has direct access to BPA
> hydro power. If she's an EWEB customer, her rates are among the lowest in
> Oregon.
>
> Find out from your daughter which power company she has. Go to that
> company's web site and look at the current rates, i.e. mills or cents per
> kwh.. From there, with the manfacturers' specs on each potetial unit, you
> can get a very rough idea of relative costs of operation.
>
> Remember that the most important item in those costs will be unrelated to
> power rates or unit effciency. Rather, how "tight" the house is, how well
> insulated and protected from air infiltration and exfiltration, will be the
> biggest factor in heating / cooling costs. The next biggest factor will be
> where she sets the thermostat.
>
> Gut reaction from living in Oreon more than 30 years -- heat pump and
> electric resistance heat is the worst way to go. Heat pump compressor
> operation is amazingly inefficient -- its just like operating an AC
> compressor full time, and electric resistance heat is awful.
>
> Go with high efficiency (90% or better) natural gas fired ducted hot air
> system. If she really needs AC, (nd on the west side of the Cascades, she
> usually won't), get a whole house AC unit installed in conunction with the
> gas unit. There are big purchase credits and state tax credits for
> installing high efficiency gas furnaces.
>
> Wood heat is romantic idea. It is not a viable option for full time heat in
> a family home. Its too damn much work. I've got two wood stoves in my
> house and know how to use them. IMHO, its just more work than is
> reasonable. And fire wood is NOT cheap.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
Not entirely accurate about BPA. BPA is the
marketing agency for Federal power and owns
transmission lines but no powerplants. Federal
powerplants include Corps of Engineers and Bureau
of Reclamation powerplants, e.g., Grand Coulee.
BPA also has contracts with private Electric
companies if they signed agreements, some of which
refused.
We converted to gas about 5 years ago and since
that time gas prices have risen rapidly to the
point that gas heat is probably marginally less
expensive than electricity.
Wood heat isn't romantic, but it certainly is
viable for family heat. Lots of families in
Idaho, Oregon, and Washington heat with wood. But
most of them probably get wood fairly cheaply from
National Forests, State forest, and private
company forests. It is not viable in heavily
populated areas because of the air quality
requirements.
[email protected] wrote:
> IIRC, that gratuitous bit about the bills merits a "You Suck." And a
> "where can I get one?"
>
> J
>
<aol>
me too
</aol>
In article <[email protected]>,
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughlin> wrote:
> Oregon _USED TO_ have relatively cheap power costs, but the days of cheap
> hydro are long gone. The two largest power companies in Oregon -- Portland
> General Electric (PGE) and Pacific Power & Light (PPL), got swallowed up by
> mega energy companies, took on large debt, and power rates soared.
>
> Neither PGE nor PPL ever had access to Bonneville Power Authority (BPA --
> look at it like the northwest analog of TVA) from the Army Corps of Engineer
> power dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. That BPA hydro was reserved
> for municipal power companies (e.g., Seattle City Poer and Light) and
> public utility districts (e.g., Clark County PUD). Washington State has
> always been receptive to and hospitable to muni power and publc utility
> districts. Oregon, wierdly, has been intensely hostile to public power,
> with one big geographic exception. Oregon, as a result has had higher
> power rates, generally, than Washington state.
>
> The hydro that PGE and PPL had access to was from dams built on private
> lands owned by PGE / PPL. Both ompanies ave been rapidly de commissioning
> most of their company owned hydro dams and buying on the spot maket. Both
> PGE and PPL are owned by mega energy companies hat make most of thei money
> by trading power wholesale rather than generating power.
>
> PGE is a part of the Enron debacle. PGE serves most of the Portland area
> and the west part of Oregon. Highest power rates in the Northwest and
> maybe the highest power rates on the West Coast outside of San Francisco.
> PGE and Enron both have paid massive fines for fraudulent wholesale energy
> trades related to the west coast power crisis about three years ago.
>
> PPL serves most of the rest of Oregon outside the PGE service area except
> for Eugene and Lane County. PPL was taken over several years (?6-8?) by
> Scottish Power, which is now trying to peddle PPL to a US based mega energy
> company called (?) Mid America Power (?) controlled by billionaire Warren
> Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway holding compan.
>
> Wierdly, your daughter in Eugene, if within the city limits, and in some
> other parts of Lane County, probably has power from EWEB (Eugene Water and
> Electric Board) a municipal power company which has direct access to BPA
> hydro power. If she's an EWEB customer, her rates are among the lowest in
> Oregon.
>
> Find out from your daughter which power company she has. Go to that
> company's web site and look at the current rates, i.e. mills or cents per
> kwh.. From there, with the manfacturers' specs on each potetial unit, you
> can get a very rough idea of relative costs of operation.
>
> Remember that the most important item in those costs will be unrelated to
> power rates or unit effciency. Rather, how "tight" the house is, how well
> insulated and protected from air infiltration and exfiltration, will be the
> biggest factor in heating / cooling costs. The next biggest factor will be
> where she sets the thermostat.
>
> Gut reaction from living in Oreon more than 30 years -- heat pump and
> electric resistance heat is the worst way to go. Heat pump compressor
> operation is amazingly inefficient -- its just like operating an AC
> compressor full time, and electric resistance heat is awful.
>
> Go with high efficiency (90% or better) natural gas fired ducted hot air
> system. If she really needs AC, (nd on the west side of the Cascades, she
> usually won't), get a whole house AC unit installed in conunction with the
> gas unit. There are big purchase credits and state tax credits for
> installing high efficiency gas furnaces.
>
> Wood heat is romantic idea. It is not a viable option for full time heat in
> a family home. Its too damn much work. I've got two wood stoves in my
> house and know how to use them. IMHO, its just more work than is
> reasonable. And fire wood is NOT cheap.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> --
> Jim McLaughlin
>
> Reply address is deliberately munged.
> If you really need to reply directly, try:
> jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
>
> And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
> address.
> "HMFIC-1369" <[email protected] Baa> wrote in message
> news:X0C5f.7674$nk2.6932@trnddc07...
> > Oregon used to have cheap Hydro electric (BPA), and plenty of trees. So
> I'd
> > go heat pump with supp wood stove. I
> >
> > "Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> > > question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> > > Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> > > your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> > > supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> > > installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> > > her street. Thanks, Mike
> > >
> >
What him say.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
HMFIC has it right Mike - Heat pump and wood stove backup is perfect combo
for Eugene...\MHO
Schroeder
"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
> her street. Thanks, Mike
>
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:28:25 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor
qualm, John Thomas <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>"Mike in Arkansas" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Mindful of how helpful Eugene area woodworkers were with my recent
>> question, I have one more. Daughter wants to install central heat/ac.
>> Both of us being pretty ignorant of Oregon utility costs we would like
>> your openion of wether natural gas with ac or a heat pump with
>> supplemental electric heat would be the preferred mothod of
>> installation? House does not have natural gas but it's available in
>> her street. Thanks, Mike
>>
>
>Mike,
>
>You may be able to contact the local utilities to get an idea of which
>would be more economical locally. And they may or may not have rebates
>available to help with installation or purchase ... that may also sway
>your (or her) decision.
Oh, that's right. I got about $300 in rebates.
http://www.avistautilities.com/saving/conservation/rebates_or.asp
Gas company: $200-250
http://www.pacificpower.net/Homepage/Homepage35814.html
Elec company: nothing may be available for residential customers
----------------------------------------------------------------
* OPERA: A Latin word * Wondrous Website Design
* meaning * Save your Heirloom Photos
* "death by music" * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------