"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Max wrote:
>
> > The plate on my 3HP Jet planer says 15 amps.
> > It's plugged into a 20 amp outlet. No problems.
>
> You just made it by the skin of your chiny chin chin.
>
> A thermal-magnetic c'bkr is rated at 80% of nameplate when installed in a
> panel board or load center.
>
> Thus a 20A c'bkr connected to a #12AWG conductor will handle 16A on a
> continuous basis.
>
> Above 16A, you begin to operate on the time/current portion of the c'bkr
> which is less than continuous duty.
>
> BTW, just for reference, a 15A c'bkr connected to a #14AWG conductor will
> only handle 12A on a continuous basis.
>
> Case you are curious, it's all defined in your handy dandy NEC, a copy of
> which should be on file at your local library.
>
> Lew
I still have a copy of the NEC from prior to retirement.
Max (retired Deputy Fire Chief)
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07>, [email protected]
> says...
>> Greg O wrote:
>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>
>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>>
>>>
>>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing
>>> a 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for
>>> 25 feet. Greg
>>
>> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire;
>
> Wrong -- it's 15A per wire.
220 @ 15A = [email protected] + [email protected] = 15A.
110 with 15A in each phase would be a 30A ckt; 30A delivered to the load.
>
>> NOT much of a problem.
>
> It's a *big* problem on 14ga wire.
>
>> YOu're mostly
>> right, but for the wrong reasons.
>
> Whereas you are entirely wrong, but for the wrong reasons.
ThiMk!
This is from a google search.
Marv
The general rule of thumb for picking wiring size is
· 14-gauge wire is rated for currents up to 15 amps. Circuits in many
homes, especially cost-conscious tract homes, use 14-gauge wiring in most of
the house except the kitchen; even in the garage. This is a distinct
disadvantage nowadays due to hair dryers in bathrooms, computers and other
equipment in bedroom/home offices, etc. Avoid 14-gauge wiring in any new
home if you are building.
· 12-gauge wire for currents up to 20 amps. But a 20-amp breaker must
not be loaded above 16 amps of continuous current draw. This is adequate for
most home shops, provided your bigger tools operate on 240-volt power, and
you don't have multiple tools going at the same time.
· 10-gauge wire for up to 30 amps, or 40 amps if you are running
intermittently loaded motors such as on a table saw or jointer that is not
being used for big production jobs or jobs where you are doing a lot of
continuous cutting. With intermittent loads, you can use 40-amp breakers,
because a 40-amp breaker should not be loaded at more than 32 amps
continuous. Just be aware that you will have more heating in the wire, so it
be as open to ventilation as possible. It shouldn't be buried under the
insulation in an attic, for example, between the breaker panel and the plug
in the wall. 10-gauge wire is rarely used on 120-volt circuits.
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing a 14
gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for 25 feet.
Greg
"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07...
> Greg O wrote:
>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>
>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>
>>
>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing a
>> 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for 25
>> feet. Greg
>
> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire; NOT much of a problem. YOu're mostly
> right, but for the wrong reasons.
>
>
>
You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three phase on a
daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the 25 foot run.
Greg
"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WfaSh.297$ok6.207@trnddc07...
> Charley wrote:
>> A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full
>> load, which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the
>> starting current of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load
>> current, so a 14 ga wire is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for
>> wire that will carry more than 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right
>> choice for a relatively short cable, but you should go to an 8 ga
>> wire if the full length of the wire from the breaker panel to the saw
>> will be longer than about 100 feet.
>
> You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line, is
> split between the conductors, meaning you're all wet here. Jeez, a little
> knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even your 150% number is way off.
>
>
>
>
I am think you need the towel, Pop!
Greg
"Chuck Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> To fireant: If you have any question which of the above replies is
> more "all wet", by all means find and ask a local licensed
> electrician. The probability of gleaning coherent, accurate
> electrical advice from this thread has officially begun its dive
> toward zero.
>
> To power my 220V machines, including my 3 HP Unisaw, I use a 25'
> extension cord made from 10-2 w/ground.
>
>
> --
> Chuck Taylor
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/
LOL!!
Greg
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>
>> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
>> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
>> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
>> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
>> 25 foot run.
>
> Did you really mean to put 20 gage there?
>
>
> --
Damn it! 12 gauge!
Typing faster than brain functions!
Greg
"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0WuSh.685$ok6.591@trnddc07...
> Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07>, [email protected]
>> says...
>>> Greg O wrote:
>>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing
>>>> a 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for
>>>> 25 feet. Greg
>>>
>>> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire;
>>
>> Wrong -- it's 15A per wire.
>
> 220 @ 15A = [email protected] + [email protected] = 15A.
>
> 110 with 15A in each phase would be a 30A ckt; 30A delivered to the load.
>
>>
>>> NOT much of a problem.
>>
>> It's a *big* problem on 14ga wire.
>>
>>> YOu're mostly
>>> right, but for the wrong reasons.
>>
>> Whereas you are entirely wrong, but for the wrong reasons.
>
> ThiMk!
>
>
Nope!
Try again!
These electrical questions that get answered by the cusless are fun!!!
Greg
"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GGuSh.10556$AS6.7258@trnddc04...
> >>>
>>
>> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
>> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
>> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
>> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
>> 25 foot run. Greg
>
> Hmm, OK, I see what you're at. I assumed the OP was a North American
> residential, meaning opposing phases of the 110 make up the 220 and thus
> each hot carries half of the total current rating.
I was assuming North America, and you are still wrong!
Greg
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Whoa. Ask a seemingly simple question . . . . which was what size power
> cord for a 25' run for a 3 HP 220V single phase tablesaw.
> Looked through Delta manual, and they recommend 14 ga up to 50'. Found a
> 12 ga 25' cord at WM which will cover my intermittent use. Thanks all.
>
>
I would never have guesses that they would recommend 14 gauge cord for any
length! The 3 hp motor must draw less amps than I figured. even though a 12
gauge cord is a good idea to help keep the voltage drop to a minimum.
Any idea what the motor name plate states for amps?
Greg
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > These electrical questions that get answered by the cusless are fun!!!
> Greg
>
>
>
Crap!
make that "Clueless"
Greg
"The Davenport's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <VKhSh.410$%[email protected]>, "The Davenport's"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>However, you 14-3 wire is not anywhere near large enough....unless you
>>>WANT
>>>to watch your wire melt before your very eyes! :>
>>
>> And your basis for this belief is -- ?
>>
>> Let's be realistic, shall we? 3 HP is in the neighborhood of 12 amps at
>> 220 V.
>> That's not anywhere close to melting 14ga wire. Or the insulation on it.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> No...2hp is in the area of 12 amps. 3hp is going to be closer to 16-18,
> depending on the motor itself. I will say that it would have been better
> had the OP posted the amperage, but still, a 3hp table saw is gonna pull
> some amps.
>
> And THAT is what I based my belief on.
>
> Mike
>
I just grabbed my Grainger catalog and checked through the 3 HP motors. Amps
draw ranged from 13-19 for 240 volt, single phase motors. I generally figure
about 5 amps per HP on 220 volts.
Greg
Greg O wrote:
> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> These electrical questions that get answered by the cusless are fun!!!
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
> Crap!
> make that "Clueless"
> Greg
>
Try to stay current: the thread for the spelling-challenged was last
week. ;-)
Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000732-0, 04/10/2007
Tested on: 4/10/2007 4:00:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
"Greg O" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:GGuSh.10556$AS6.7258@trnddc04...
>> >>>
>>>
>>> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
>>> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
>>> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
>>> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
>>> 25 foot run. Greg
>>
>> Hmm, OK, I see what you're at. I assumed the OP was a North American
>> residential, meaning opposing phases of the 110 make up the 220 and thus
>> each hot carries half of the total current rating.
>
>
>I was assuming North America, and you are still wrong!
>Greg
>
It would have been more polite to tell him _why_ he was wrong:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase>
scott
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
>
I'd go with 12-3. Some might recommend 10-3 but I don't believe it's
necessary or even beneficial for that length of run. 12-3 will be quite a
bit more manageable in size than 10-3. Just go buy an extension cord at the
local BORG, and chop off the receptacle end, and wire that end into your
saw.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full load,
which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the starting current
of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load current, so a 14 ga wire
is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for wire that will carry more than
25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right choice for a relatively short cable, but
you should go to an 8 ga wire if the full length of the wire from the
breaker panel to the saw will be longer than about 100 feet.
--
Charley
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
>
>
> You're confusing 220v single phase with 3 phase. In single phase 220
> the current is no more "split between the conductors" than it is in 110v
> single phase. 17 amps goes out on one, comes back on the other, the
> direction reverses 60 times a second.
>
> You're right that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Let's hope
> you don't burn anything down before you acquire more.
>
>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>
>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
Thanks for clearing that up. He had me
confused when he talked about splitting
the current too. I was locked in single
phase thinking and it made no sense to me.
Tanus
--
This is not really a sig.
http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/
Whoa. Ask a seemingly simple question . . . . which was what size power
cord for a 25' run for a 3 HP 220V single phase tablesaw.
Looked through Delta manual, and they recommend 14 ga up to 50'. Found a 12
ga 25' cord at WM which will cover my intermittent use. Thanks all.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>
> I would stick with an extension cord rather than attach a 25' cord
> directly to your saw. It will only work with the saw if you attach it.
>
> Something to consider, while many have stated that the 12 ga. will work
> fine, If you go 10 ga. you can use it to also power those larger pieces
> of equipment you may get in the future. I run a 4.5 hp Laguna BS on a 10
> ga.
> Too big is not a problem, too small will be.
>
"Greg O" wrote
> "The Davenport's" wrote
>> No...2hp is in the area of 12 amps. 3hp is going to be closer to 16-18,
>> depending on the motor itself. I will say that it would have been better
>> had the OP posted the amperage, but still, a 3hp table saw is gonna pull
>> some amps.
>>
>> And THAT is what I based my belief on.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> I just grabbed my Grainger catalog and checked through the 3 HP motors.
> Amps draw ranged from 13-19 for 240 volt, single phase motors. I generally
> figure about 5 amps per HP on 220 volts.
> Greg
The plate on my 3HP Jet planer says 15 amps.
It's plugged into a 20 amp outlet. No problems.
Max
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 18:12:06 GMT, "Pop`" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Charley wrote:
>> A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full
>> load, which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the
>> starting current of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load
>> current, so a 14 ga wire is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for
>> wire that will carry more than 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right
>> choice for a relatively short cable, but you should go to an 8 ga
>> wire if the full length of the wire from the breaker panel to the saw
>> will be longer than about 100 feet.
>
>You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line, is
>split between the conductors, meaning you're all wet here. Jeez, a little
>knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even your 150% number is way off.
To fireant: If you have any question which of the above replies is
more "all wet", by all means find and ask a local licensed
electrician. The probability of gleaning coherent, accurate
electrical advice from this thread has officially begun its dive
toward zero.
To power my 220V machines, including my 3 HP Unisaw, I use a 25'
extension cord made from 10-2 w/ground.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <VKhSh.410$%[email protected]>, "The Davenport's"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>However, you 14-3 wire is not anywhere near large enough....unless you
>>WANT
>>to watch your wire melt before your very eyes! :>
>
> And your basis for this belief is -- ?
>
> Let's be realistic, shall we? 3 HP is in the neighborhood of 12 amps at
> 220 V.
> That's not anywhere close to melting 14ga wire. Or the insulation on it.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
No...2hp is in the area of 12 amps. 3hp is going to be closer to 16-18,
depending on the motor itself. I will say that it would have been better had
the OP posted the amperage, but still, a 3hp table saw is gonna pull some
amps.
And THAT is what I based my belief on.
Mike
fireant wrote:
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
I'd buy a 25 ft, 10-2 /w/ ground molded cord set, chop off the
receptacle, wire it into the saw, get a beer and admire your handy work.
What you save buying the molded cord set pays for the beer.
Lew
Greg O wrote:
> "Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07...
>> Greg O wrote:
>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>
>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>>
>>>
>>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing
>>> a 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for
>>> 25 feet. Greg
>>
>> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire; NOT much of a problem. YOu're
>> mostly right, but for the wrong reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>
> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
> 25 foot run. Greg
Hmm, OK, I see what you're at. I assumed the OP was a North American
residential, meaning opposing phases of the 110 make up the 220 and thus
each hot carries half of the total current rating. In the UK and other
places, their 240 is indeed going to carry all the current of the rating
since there is only one "hot" conductor plus the neutral.
But at the same time, 240 @ xx Amps, well, that's a different story.
Since the OP stated 220 and 15A, which is how NA power is stated, I suspect
he is in NA. But, your point is taken and valid if he's in a different
country.
Pop`
Are you trying for a laugh here or what? Does the word "circuit" mean
anything to you? What, you figure that on a 120 volt circuit the juice just
stops at the motor? The other side of the circuit (there's that word again)
just lays there?
"Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WfaSh.297$ok6.207@trnddc07...
> You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line, is
> split between the conductors, meaning you're all wet here. Jeez, a little
> knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even your 150% number is way off.
>
>
In article <WfaSh.297$ok6.207@trnddc07>, [email protected]
says...
> Charley wrote:
> > A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full
> > load, which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the
> > starting current of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load
> > current, so a 14 ga wire is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for
> > wire that will carry more than 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right
> > choice for a relatively short cable, but you should go to an 8 ga
> > wire if the full length of the wire from the breaker panel to the saw
> > will be longer than about 100 feet.
>
> You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line, is
> split between the conductors,
No, it's not.
A 240V circuit looks like this:
(L1)---------+
|
(load)
|
(L2)---------+
This is a series circuit. Current is the same at all points in a series
circuit; thus, it's the same in L1 as it is in L2.
>meaning you're all wet here.
Bzzzt! Thanks for playing, though.
>Jeez, a little
> knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Only if it is mistaken for a great deal...
In article <ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07>, [email protected]
says...
> Greg O wrote:
> > "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> >> Is 14-3 large enough?
> >>
> >> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
> >>
> >
> > 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing a
> > 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for 25
> > feet. Greg
>
> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire;
Wrong -- it's 15A per wire.
>NOT much of a problem.
It's a *big* problem on 14ga wire.
>YOu're mostly
> right, but for the wrong reasons.
Whereas you are entirely wrong, but for the wrong reasons.
>
>
>
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
Depends. If you are going to stay within the 25' then I'd go with 12 guage.
The surge of a starting motor draws more then you think. 10 guage would be
nice if you are even thinking of needing an extension cord. Either way, 14
guage is too small.
I know they wire houses with it, but 14 guage braided copper in a cord is
just not as safe for long distances.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> fireant wrote:
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
> I'd buy a 25 ft, 10-2 /w/ ground molded cord set, chop off the
> receptacle, wire it into the saw, get a beer and admire your handy
> work.
> What you save buying the molded cord set pays for the beer.
>
> Lew
Well, 12 would likely suffice very nicely, but 10 is better of course from a
heavy load viewpoint. Personally I'd probably just use a good extension
cord; all that cord might not be necessary someday and then you'd be looking
at cutting it off.
Pop`
In article <0WuSh.685$ok6.591@trnddc07>, "Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07>, [email protected]
>> says...
>>> Greg O wrote:
>>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing
>>>> a 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for
>>>> 25 feet. Greg
>>>
>>> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire;
>>
>> Wrong -- it's 15A per wire.
>
>220 @ 15A = [email protected] + [email protected] = 15A.
Nope.
220V * 15A = 3300 W.
(110V * 7.5A) + (110V * 7.5A) = 825 W + 825 W = 1650 W.
>110 with 15A in each phase would be a 30A ckt; 30A delivered to the load.
Absolutely false. The currents are *not* additive. Two 110V circuits in series
with 15A in each leg makes a 15A circuit at 220V. **NOT** a 30A circuit.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
Many other opinions have been expressed...some colorfully...howver, take
this for what you will...
...I'm currently moving my equipment from my fathers shop to my own(finally)
and I am running new circuits to the shop. They are 240v 20 amp for the
table saw and the jointer. I tend to use very short cordsets on the
machines...that is, no more than 12" from motor or cabinet to the
plug...then run extension cord to the wall. In this case, I will be using
10ga stranded for both. Both draw no more than 10 amps running...about 14
amps on start up, so 12ga would likely work just fine, but I don't know what
I may have in a year, so I'll still be set.
However, you 14-3 wire is not anywhere near large enough....unless you WANT
to watch your wire melt before your very eyes! :>
Mike
Marv wrote:
> This is from a google search.
>
> Marv
>
> The general rule of thumb for picking wiring size is
> · 14-gauge wire is rated for currents up to 15 amps. Circuits
> in many homes, especially cost-conscious tract homes, use 14-gauge
> wiring in most of the house except the kitchen; even in the garage.
> This is a distinct disadvantage nowadays due to hair dryers in
> bathrooms, computers and other equipment in bedroom/home offices,
> etc. Avoid 14-gauge wiring in any new home if you are building.
>
> · 12-gauge wire for currents up to 20 amps. But a 20-amp
> breaker must not be loaded above 16 amps of continuous current draw.
> This is adequate for most home shops, provided your bigger tools
> operate on 240-volt power, and you don't have multiple tools going at
> the same time.
> · 10-gauge wire for up to 30 amps, or 40 amps if you are
> running intermittently loaded motors such as on a table saw or
> jointer that is not being used for big production jobs or jobs where
> you are doing a lot of continuous cutting. With intermittent loads,
> you can use 40-amp breakers, because a 40-amp breaker should not be
> loaded at more than 32 amps continuous. Just be aware that you will
> have more heating in the wire, so it be as open to ventilation as
> possible. It shouldn't be buried under the insulation in an attic,
> for example, between the breaker panel and the plug in the wall.
> 10-gauge wire is rarely used on 120-volt circuits.
> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
Why did you waste your time with that?
Charley wrote:
> A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full
> load, which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the
> starting current of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load
> current, so a 14 ga wire is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for
> wire that will carry more than 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right
> choice for a relatively short cable, but you should go to an 8 ga
> wire if the full length of the wire from the breaker panel to the saw
> will be longer than about 100 feet.
You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line, is
split between the conductors, meaning you're all wet here. Jeez, a little
knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even your 150% number is way off.
>
>
> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
Max wrote:
> The plate on my 3HP Jet planer says 15 amps.
> It's plugged into a 20 amp outlet. No problems.
You just made it by the skin of your chiny chin chin.
A thermal-magnetic c'bkr is rated at 80% of nameplate when installed
in a panel board or load center.
Thus a 20A c'bkr connected to a #12AWG conductor will handle 16A on a
continuous basis.
Above 16A, you begin to operate on the time/current portion of the
c'bkr which is less than continuous duty.
BTW, just for reference, a 15A c'bkr connected to a #14AWG conductor
will only handle 12A on a continuous basis.
Case you are curious, it's all defined in your handy dandy NEC, a copy
of which should be on file at your local library.
Lew
Pop` wrote:
> Charley wrote:
>> A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full
>> load, which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the
>> starting current of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load
>> current, so a 14 ga wire is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for
>> wire that will carry more than 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right
>> choice for a relatively short cable, but you should go to an 8 ga
>> wire if the full length of the wire from the breaker panel to the saw
>> will be longer than about 100 feet.
>
> You are completely neglecting that the total current, on a 220 line,
> is split between the conductors, meaning you're all wet here. Jeez,
> a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even your 150% number is
> way off.
You're confusing 220v single phase with 3 phase. In single phase 220
the current is no more "split between the conductors" than it is in 110v
single phase. 17 amps goes out on one, comes back on the other, the
direction reverses 60 times a second.
You're right that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Let's hope
you don't burn anything down before you acquire more.
>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>
>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Greg O wrote:
> "Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ieaSh.296$ok6.274@trnddc07...
>> Greg O wrote:
>>> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>>>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>>>
>>>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>>>
>>>
>>> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing
>>> a 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for
>>> 25 feet. Greg
>>
>> At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire; NOT much of a problem. YOu're
>> mostly right, but for the wrong reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>
> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
> 25 foot run.
Did you really mean to put 20 gage there?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
In article <[email protected]>, "The Davenport's" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <VKhSh.410$%[email protected]>, "The Davenport's"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>However, you 14-3 wire is not anywhere near large enough....unless you
>>>WANT
>>>to watch your wire melt before your very eyes! :>
>>
>> And your basis for this belief is -- ?
>>
>> Let's be realistic, shall we? 3 HP is in the neighborhood of 12 amps at 220 V.
>> That's not anywhere close to melting 14ga wire. Or the insulation on it.
>>
>
>No...2hp is in the area of 12 amps. 3hp is going to be closer to 16-18,
18A @ 220V = almost 4KW -- that's pretty inefficient for 3 HP.
>depending on the motor itself. I will say that it would have been better had
>the OP posted the amperage, but still, a 3hp table saw is gonna pull some
>amps.
>
>And THAT is what I based my belief on.
Perhaps you should check the melting point of copper wire, then reevaluate the
basis for your belief.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Greg O wrote:
> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>
>
> 3 hp equates out to about 15 amps at 220 volts. You will be pushing a
> 14 gauge cord. 12 gauge will do it just fine. 10 is over kill for 25
> feet. Greg
At 220, that's only 7.5A per wire; NOT much of a problem. YOu're mostly
right, but for the wrong reasons.
To be absolutely safe, I would recommend a 4/0 AAC. Never mind that it's
larger than the 15kV distribution conductors.
todd
"Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A 3 hp single phase 220 volt saw motor will draw about 17 amps full load,
> which is already more than 14 ga wire is rated for, but the starting
> current
> of that motor can be 150% or more of the full load current, so a 14 ga
> wire
> is WAY TOO SMALL. You should be looking for wire that will carry more
> than
> 25 amps. A 10 ga wire is the right choice for a relatively short cable,
> but
> you should go to an 8 ga wire if the full length of the wire from the
> breaker panel to the saw will be longer than about 100 feet.
>
> --
> Charley
>
> "fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
>> Is 14-3 large enough?
>>
>> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>>
>>
>
>
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
>
I would stick with an extension cord rather than attach a 25' cord directly
to your saw. It will only work with the saw if you attach it.
Something to consider, while many have stated that the 12 ga. will work
fine, If you go 10 ga. you can use it to also power those larger pieces of
equipment you may get in the future. I run a 4.5 hp Laguna BS on a 10 ga.
Too big is not a problem, too small will be.
In article <GGuSh.10556$AS6.7258@trnddc04>, "Pop`" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Greg O wrote:
>> You want to re-think that? I think you are mostly wrong!
>> Where did the 7.5 amps per wire come from??
>> Keep in mind that I deal with 220 single phase, 208 and 480 three
>> phase on a daily basis. I am sticking with my 20 gauge wire for the
>> 25 foot run. Greg
>
>Hmm, OK, I see what you're at. I assumed the OP was a North American
>residential, meaning opposing phases of the 110 make up the 220 and thus
>each hot carries half of the total current rating.
I thnk all of us assumed the same thing about the OP's location. You're just
wrong about each leg carrying half the current, that's all.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <VKhSh.410$%[email protected]>, "The Davenport's" <[email protected]> wrote:
>However, you 14-3 wire is not anywhere near large enough....unless you WANT
>to watch your wire melt before your very eyes! :>
And your basis for this belief is -- ?
Let's be realistic, shall we? 3 HP is in the neighborhood of 12 amps at 220 V.
That's not anywhere close to melting 14ga wire. Or the insulation on it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"fireant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Want to replace current 10' cord with 25' cord.
> Is 14-3 large enough?
>
> Saw is 3 HP 220V. TIA, F
12 is adequate, but 10 is prudent, especially if you are a distance from the
breaker box.
In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thus a 20A c'bkr connected to a #12AWG conductor will handle 16A on a
>continuous basis.
A home-shop table saw doesn't even come close to being a continuous load,
defined by the NEC as "a load where the maximum current is expected to
continue for 3 hours or more."
>
>BTW, just for reference, a 15A c'bkr connected to a #14AWG conductor
>will only handle 12A on a continuous basis.
Again: "continuous" = maximum current for 3 hours or more. Definitely not in
any home shop, and probably not in any production shop either.
>
>Case you are curious, it's all defined in your handy dandy NEC, a copy
>of which should be on file at your local library.
Indeed it is. That same handy dandy NEC tells you that the 15A limit on 14AWG
wire is the maximum permitted rating of the overcurrent device, *not* the
maximum rating of the conductor. Table 310.16 specifies that the ampacity
(maximum current) of 14AWG copper wire is 20 amps with 60 or 75 deg C
insulation, 25 amps with 90 deg C insulation.
FWIW, the factory-supplied power cord on my JET 3HP table saw is 14-3 SJT
(rated at 105 deg C).
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.