n

03/01/2005 10:32 PM

buying advice wanted: countersink, shank, and pilot hole units

What's the best/fastest way to do this all in one shot?

I'll be using mostly #7 x 1-1/4, #7 x 1-5/8 square drive drywall
screws, and #8 x various length drywall screws. I may also use some
#6 screws.

I looked at the DeWalt taper bit and Lee Valley ones.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32309&category=1,180,42240&ccurrency=2&SID=

Are taper bits they way to go?


This topic has 15 replies

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

03/01/2005 11:31 PM

Just keep in mind that if you're using drywall screws you are NOT
really cinching up your joint. Wood screws have a smooth shoulder on
the shank so all the bit is in the piece being attached "to" and the
piece being attached is chinched down. If you have threads the whole
length you aren't pulling the pieces together.

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 1:13 PM

You right, I read too fast...just like I eat.

Gg

"George"

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 7:45 AM


"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just keep in mind that if you're using drywall screws you are NOT
> really cinching up your joint. Wood screws have a smooth shoulder on
> the shank so all the bit is in the piece being attached "to" and the
> piece being attached is chinched down. If you have threads the whole
> length you aren't pulling the pieces together.

He would be if he used the bit he asked about. The greater diameter shank
hole would allow draw.

n

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 2:59 PM

the problem i see w/ this is the shank and pilot hole are the same
dia.

either the pilot will be too larger or the shank too small

the shank hole needs to be through the outer board and slightly larger
than the screw, while the pilot needs to be in the innner board and
smaller than the screw

grrrr..

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:07:19 -0600, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:

>One word, Insty-Bit. OK, two words with a hyphen.
>
>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=48336&category=1,180,42240
>
>This allows the poor man (non-trust funded wooddorker) to
>get by with one battery powered drill.
>
>UA100

ma

max

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 3:46 PM

I have owned many countersink units. What a mess. Most work, sort of. The
taper drill bits are nice but fragile and expensive. Carbon steel
countersinks are worthless. High speed steel much better but still a pain if
you drive a lot of screws. WE finally bought a set of Amana carbide
countersinks. They are available separately. The have two beefy carbide
wings, use a standard drill bit, have nicely machined bodies that match up
perfectly with the plug cutters (to make buttons) and last a long time. I
think they are around $20 but worth much more.
max

> What's the best/fastest way to do this all in one shot?
>
> I'll be using mostly #7 x 1-1/4, #7 x 1-5/8 square drive drywall
> screws, and #8 x various length drywall screws. I may also use some
> #6 screws.
>
> I looked at the DeWalt taper bit and Lee Valley ones.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32309&category=1,180,42240&ccurren
> cy=2&SID=
>
> Are taper bits they way to go?

b

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

06/01/2005 3:22 PM






>
>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:56:40 -0700,
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
>>>needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
>>>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>>>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>>>other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
>>>the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
>>>going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
>>>2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
>>>drills!!
>>>
>>>Just looking for "a better way".



>
>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:19:31 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>modern cabinet assembly screws are what you want.
>>
>>they have a head kinda like a drywall screw. they have a rolled knife
>>edge thread like a drywall screw, but the thread doesn't go all of the
>>way up to the head. the root diameter is the same for the full length,
>>though, so you only need one drill bit with the countersink on it.
>>
>>try mcfeely's.
>>http://www.mcfeelys.com/



On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:29:06 -0700,
[email protected] wrote:

>looking..
>
>wow.. flat head screws? they have hundreds of "fasteners"
>
>is black oxide OK?



OK for what?

for assembling interior woodwork they're fine. for assembling an
outdoor deck they're not.

b

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 11:19 PM

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:56:40 -0700,
[email protected] wrote:

>yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
>needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
>the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
>going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
>2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
>drills!!
>
>Just looking for "a better way".

modern cabinet assembly screws are what you want.

they have a head kinda like a drywall screw. they have a rolled knife
edge thread like a drywall screw, but the thread doesn't go all of the
way up to the head. the root diameter is the same for the full length,
though, so you only need one drill bit with the countersink on it.

try mcfeely's.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/

UA

Unisaw A100

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 4:07 AM

One word, Insty-Bit. OK, two words with a hyphen.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=48336&category=1,180,42240

This allows the poor man (non-trust funded wooddorker) to
get by with one battery powered drill.

UA100

EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

09/01/2005 4:01 AM


>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>other woodscrews w/ real shanks,

Drywall screw break too easily. They are a poor choice for woodwork.

UA

Unisaw A100

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 11:13 PM

coloradotrout wrote:
>the problem i see w/ this is the shank and pilot hole are the same
>dia.

True.

>either the pilot will be too larger or the shank too small

And maybe it's not a problem.

>the shank hole needs to be through the outer board and slightly larger
>than the screw, while the pilot needs to be in the innner board and
>smaller than the screw

Ahhhh, but I don't use "traditional" wood screws.

>grrrr..

bow-wow...

UA100

b

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 12:30 AM

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:32:05 -0700,
[email protected] wrote:

>What's the best/fastest way to do this all in one shot?
>
>I'll be using mostly #7 x 1-1/4, #7 x 1-5/8 square drive drywall
>screws, and #8 x various length drywall screws. I may also use some
>#6 screws.
>
>I looked at the DeWalt taper bit and Lee Valley ones.
>
>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32309&category=1,180,42240&ccurrency=2&SID=
>
>Are taper bits they way to go?


taper drill bits are wasted with drywall screws. just use a drill bit
the size of the root diameter of the screw, set just a bit longer than
the tip of the screw for length.

n

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

05/01/2005 10:29 AM

looking..

wow.. flat head screws? they have hundreds of "fasteners"

is black oxide OK?

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:19:31 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:56:40 -0700,
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
>>needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
>>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>>other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
>>the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
>>going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
>>2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
>>drills!!
>>
>>Just looking for "a better way".
>
>modern cabinet assembly screws are what you want.
>
>they have a head kinda like a drywall screw. they have a rolled knife
>edge thread like a drywall screw, but the thread doesn't go all of the
>way up to the head. the root diameter is the same for the full length,
>though, so you only need one drill bit with the countersink on it.
>
>try mcfeely's.
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/

b

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

08/01/2005 6:46 PM


>>>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:56:40 -0700,
>>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
>>>>>needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
>>>>>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>>>>>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>>>>>other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
>>>>>the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
>>>>>going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
>>>>>2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
>>>>>drills!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Just looking for "a better way".
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:19:31 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>modern cabinet assembly screws are what you want.
>>>>
>>>>they have a head kinda like a drywall screw. they have a rolled knife
>>>>edge thread like a drywall screw, but the thread doesn't go all of the
>>>>way up to the head. the root diameter is the same for the full length,
>>>>though, so you only need one drill bit with the countersink on it.
>>>>
>>>>try mcfeely's.
>>>>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:29:06 -0700,
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>looking..
>>>
>>>wow.. flat head screws? they have hundreds of "fasteners"
>>>
>>>is black oxide OK?
>>
>>
>>


>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 15:22:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:


>>OK for what?
>>
>>for assembling interior woodwork they're fine. for assembling an
>>outdoor deck they're not.


On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:25:58 -0700,
[email protected] wrote:

>right, right I'm talking interior furniture, shop projects, etc.
>

black oxide is fine.

for a screw with a head a little bigger than a big finish nail try
trim head. they're good for installing mdf molding where a nailgun
doesn't have enough grab.

n

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

04/01/2005 2:56 PM

yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
drills!!

Just looking for "a better way".

On 4 Jan 2005 13:13:33 -0800, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You right, I read too fast...just like I eat.

n

in reply to [email protected] on 03/01/2005 10:32 PM

07/01/2005 3:25 PM

right, right I'm talking interior furniture, shop projects, etc.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 15:22:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:56:40 -0700,
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>yeah, i understand that the dia. of the hole in the "shank" piece
>>>>needs to be a tad larger than the screw, and that the dia. of the hole
>>>>in the "pilot" pieces needs to be smaller than the screw. Using
>>>>drywall screws is probably not the smartest, maybe I should look at
>>>>other woodscrews w/ real shanks, but it always comes down to having
>>>>the "shank" hole all the way through the outer piece, and that is
>>>>going to vary based on the size of that piece. But drilling 1) pilot
>>>>2) shank, and 3) countersink is very time consuming even with 3
>>>>drills!!
>>>>
>>>>Just looking for "a better way".
>
>
>
>>
>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:19:31 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>modern cabinet assembly screws are what you want.
>>>
>>>they have a head kinda like a drywall screw. they have a rolled knife
>>>edge thread like a drywall screw, but the thread doesn't go all of the
>>>way up to the head. the root diameter is the same for the full length,
>>>though, so you only need one drill bit with the countersink on it.
>>>
>>>try mcfeely's.
>>>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
>
>
>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:29:06 -0700,
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>looking..
>>
>>wow.. flat head screws? they have hundreds of "fasteners"
>>
>>is black oxide OK?
>
>
>
>OK for what?
>
>for assembling interior woodwork they're fine. for assembling an
>outdoor deck they're not.


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