Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
the previous owner of the property.
So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on sheet
of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
of _every_ rafter are rotted.
There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
plywood.
Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
plywood between shingles in places).
Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from somewhere
higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the rafter,
and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
to see where it was coming from yet).
That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
he's just left it alone.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On May 7, 2:48 pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> > The unfortunate part is, the rubber roofs look like crap.
If it is a true rubber roof like Hypalon, yes it does. But that is a
real rubber roof.
> AFAIK, there's three styles that you can get: White, Black, and
> granulated. The granulated is like shingles, but without the lines between
> tabs.
You are mixing your materials. Rubber roof does indeed come in Black
and White. It is applied and cemented much like an old bicycle tire
tube.
However, rubber does not come in granulated.
The granulated material is SBS (modified bitumen) and comes in many
colors and although not always, is mostly granulated. It is used on
commercial roofs and on many low slope applications. There are
different grades and applications methods; some are for "residential
type" which are thinner than the commercial grade materials. The
thicker type is the only one I used, and it can be purchased in 5
basic colors. Depending on the actual product itself, it can be
applied with hot mopped asphalt, cold adhesive or with an open flame
torch (called "torch" grade). All are intended for low/zero slope
applications and are designed for specific application requirements.
All are "self healing" to some extent and are used extensively as
underlayment for low slope applications under shingles or concrete
tiles, or where water is known to be expected to travel such as in a
valley on a clay tile roof. It fits neatly under the metal and still
allows the valley and the adjoining screeds to be mechanically
attached without fear of leaks from surface penetration.
> I wonder if you could glue shingles down on top of rubber roofing...
No. Not on a real rubber roof. The compatible glue with shingles
will eat into the rubber surface and eventually dissolve it. We made
a lot of money repairing the roof at a local mall where the Firestone
version of Hypalon was incorrectly repaired with a petroleum based
product.
But on SBS (modified bitumen) we do it all the time and it works
great.
Robert
On May 6, 7:34 pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>
> ...
>
>
> For anyone thinking about roofing: DO NOT use shingles on shallow
> pitched roofs. Use rubber roofing instead. Shingles are designed to
> pass water from shingle to shingle as it moves down the roof, too little
> of a pitch and the water will get under the shingles and your roof will
> fail.
>
An architect friend told me shingles require a slope of 3/12 or
steeper. For shallower roofs he would use roll roofing. This
was before there were rubber roofs.
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
> the previous owner of the property.
>
> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on sheet
> of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>
> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
> plywood.
> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
> plywood between shingles in places).
> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from somewhere
> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the rafter,
> and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
> to see where it was coming from yet).
>
> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>
> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
> he's just left it alone.
>
My little sister's place has the same roof... well, there may be sheeting
all the way. The previous (or previous previous) owners had a carport
attached to the garage that they closed in. We're probably going to wind
up replacing the garage totally, to make sure everything's done
correctly.
For anyone thinking about roofing: DO NOT use shingles on shallow
pitched roofs. Use rubber roofing instead. Shingles are designed to
pass water from shingle to shingle as it moves down the roof, too little
of a pitch and the water will get under the shingles and your roof will
fail.
Puckdropper
"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:AYkUj.12$C8.4
@bignews2.bellsouth.net:
> The unfortunate part is, the rubber roofs look like crap.
>
AFAIK, there's three styles that you can get: White, Black, and
granulated. The granulated is like shingles, but without the lines between
tabs.
I wonder if you could glue shingles down on top of rubber roofing...
Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
This sounds like the previous owners of my house. I shouldn't blame her but
her lazy children that
Painted the windows shut on purpose so they didn't have to weatherstrip
them.
When water leaked in around the windows, they didn't bother to fix the leak
but instead just fixed the water damage.
The preferred method of repairing the plaster and brown board for them was
trowel it on by the gallon and come back in a few months when that patch
failed.
The preferred paint outside was whitewash from a farm supply store.
The preferred paint inside was semi-gloss
When remodeling the bathroom, putting the cast iron clawfoot tub on 3/4 t&g
pine plank flooring and then not fix the leaks in the tub drain.
When installing cabinets in the bathroom, they must have had there
cross-eyed cousin visiting and let him eyeball the cabinets level.
Put a pull chain fixture above the tub and then use an adapter and lamp
extension cord from there to get an outlet next to the sink.
Put copper, cpvc, galvanized, pex tubing, and black iron in as plumbing
pipe. Always in the same run.
Put copper, cpvc, galvanized, black iron, and dwv pvc pipe in as gas pipe.
Usually in the same run.
The book they followed for electrical repair was written by a 1st grader.
The book they follwed for any type of carpentry repair was written by the
above's younger brother.
It was easier for Dorthy to find the Wizard than to trace the route of where
any of the 4 electrical circuits went. One went from the panel to 2 basement
lights, up to the attic for a light, come back down and get only one of the
kitchen outlets, back to the basement for an outlet, up to the bathroom for
the light, then to the dining room for an outlet and then to the living room
for 2 outlets and then the bedroom for a light. The others were just as
horrible.
A square is something fictional to them.
The family saying is "Framing is for sissies. Real men aren't afraid of
standing in a door cut into a load bearing wall and not being supported by a
header."
Their common belief is "that big wooden beam that runs the length of the
house in the center of the basement is to test sharp drill bits and saw
blades on".
So yes I can believe that some people should be banned from all Borg and any
place they might get any type of house repair materials.
Allen
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
> the previous owner of the property.
>
> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on sheet
> of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>
> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
> plywood.
> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
> plywood between shingles in places).
> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from somewhere
> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the rafter,
> and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
> to see where it was coming from yet).
>
> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>
> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
> he's just left it alone.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
>
On Tue, 6 May 2008 14:58:54 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
>the previous owner of the property.
>
>So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
>could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
>roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
>bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on sheet
>of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>
>First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
>Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
>shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
>of _every_ rafter are rotted.
>There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
>no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
>plywood.
>Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
>About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
>plywood between shingles in places).
>Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
>Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from somewhere
>higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the rafter,
>and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
>to see where it was coming from yet).
>
>That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>
>The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
>far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
>he's just left it alone.
>
>--
Wonder if he was related to the mechanical engineer who previously
owned the house we're in?
- ceramic tile floor in the hallway has an obvious dip (1/4" or more)
in the center
- ceramic tile floor in the kitchen had no thresholds even though it
was "toe buster" height about the dining room carpet (as well as
having a dip in the center)
- circuit breakers were double tapped to get 220 to his air
compressor
- double doors to the screen porch had no weatherstrip between them
(opening 1/8" wide and 7' high)
- no caulk around the windows or doors
- no weatherstrip on sides/top of basement garage door
- joint between garage floor and driveway filled with what appears to
have been mortar mix (didn't last summer/winter temperature changes)
- don't know if he or the previous owner finished the basement
bathroom with paneling and a suspended ceiling
- etc
He had commented about how much it cost to heat/cool the house.
I lowered the heating cost $90 from one month to the next by adding
caulk, weatherstrip, and storm windows (all paid for by the savings
over two winters). Still working on adding insulation...
John
On May 8, 12:25 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There's a mechanically fastened base sheet for the Liberty
> system--I'll see if Home Despot can order it for me. Thanks.
Absolutely no problem. If you don't want to screw with HD, just go to
a roofing supply vendor and tell them you want unsanded non-adhesive
backed base for SBS. They all carry it.
And with business as slow as it is, they would probably be happy to
see you in the store. While you are there, don't forget the primer
for you metal flashings. It's nasty cheap, but really great insurance
for SBS adhesion to eave strip and flashing metal. They have the spec
on that link above, but once again, just about any brand of primer
will work. We use Henry brand around here as it's all they carry.
Good luck!
Robert
The unfortunate part is, the rubber roofs look like crap.
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:352af9a3-585e-4417-b0c2-058942c8da0d@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 6, 7:34 pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
> innews:[email protected]:
>
> ...
>
>
> For anyone thinking about roofing: DO NOT use shingles on shallow
> pitched roofs. Use rubber roofing instead. Shingles are designed to
> pass water from shingle to shingle as it moves down the roof, too little
> of a pitch and the water will get under the shingles and your roof will
> fail.
>
An architect friend told me shingles require a slope of 3/12 or
steeper. For shallower roofs he would use roll roofing. This
was before there were rubber roofs.
--
FF
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
> plywood.
Just had my roof here in central CT replaced last November. The original
roof, in place for 30 years and two months, exactly, was of GAF shingles
applied directly over the sheathing. I know this because I had the house
built originally and the directions, at least at the time, were not to put
down underlayment. The deck had one 'hole' that the roofer stuck a rake
handle through to prove that it was a 'hole' so he could charge an extra $50
for repairs to said 'hole'. (Actually, turned out it was a battered edge on
the original sheathing that was there from day one.) Otherwise the deck was
as sound as originally installed.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
> the previous owner of the property.
>
> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on sheet
> of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>
> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar paper,
> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
> plywood.
> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
> plywood between shingles in places).
> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from somewhere
> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the rafter,
> and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
> to see where it was coming from yet).
>
> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>
> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
> he's just left it alone.
>
This sounds like the kind of thing that would have been spotted in a good
presale house inspection.
On May 7, 4:47 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> FWIW, I'm planning on putting down GAF Liberty SBS on the low slope
> (note--it's not zero slope) area. I figure that if it ever has to
> come off that's going to be a pain in the butt but it should last me
> as long as I'm likely to need it.
John - just a thought here.
In case the roof is damaged in some way or begins to leak, a direct
glue product will kill you. Also, while a quality product like GAF
SBS ( I use their AWAPLAN as my choice) will move and stretch with the
changing of the seasons, eventually the solvents will leave and so
will the elasticity.
Direct glue products accelerate this process as they move with the
decking. If you will put down a mechanically fastened non-sanded
closed face (not spun fiberglass!) base sheet down and nail/tin cap
the crap out of the it you will have a better roof. The base sheet
will act as a slip sheet in this case and allow the cap sheet to move
independently of the roof, preventing accelerated wear patterns.
Also, in case there are repairs needed or modifications need to be
made, the base sheet will be difficult to get up, but not nearly as
hard as a direct glue product. After a few years, the direct glue SBS
comes up from a wood deck in pieces the size of your fist.
No doubt, you have seen this pdf detailing out the installation
procedures and expanded clear shots of the flashing details.
http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20352.pdf
I do a lot of roofing and roof repairs as well as having been an
inspector for Allied Signal Roofing Division. So if you have any
questions you think I could help with, fire away and I will try to
help.
Robert
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
> he'd just left it alone.
Well, obviously it lasted for the time that he was there and he knew you'd
be along at some point to fix it up. Sounds like workable logic to me. :)
On May 8, 6:55 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I asked, they said they were "wholesale only" and told me to have Home
> Depot order it from them.
What a bunch of arrogant pricks. They are crying for business here
and would have sold you anything in the store if you had a check/
credit card or cash with you.
> FWIW, GAF has a kit for the Liberty system that includes the primer,
> adhesive, etc that's supposed to be sufficient for 200 square feet.
> _That_ HD has in stock.
It is an amazing world we live in.
Here, not one HD had anyone in the store that could spell "SBS". They
sure don't carry any kind of SBS, much less a self adhered type, or
even at the farthest end of the scale, an installation kit for the
stuff.
Like I said, amazing.
Makes me dislike our local stores even a little more.
Robert
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J. Clarke wrote:
> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
> the previous owner of the property.
>
> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on the
> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on
> sheet
> of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>
> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the ends
> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar
> paper,
> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
> plywood.
> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
> plywood between shingles in places).
> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or not.
> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from
> somewhere
> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the
> rafter,
> and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten high enough
> to see where it was coming from yet).
>
> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>
> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
> he's just left it alone.
Well, got all the shingles off that I could reach from the
scaffold--the deck had some obvious problem areas, so avoiding them I
raked and swept to the break of the roof. Along the way I put my foot
though not only an apparently sound piece of deck but also the 2x6
rafter underneath it.
Decided it was time to call it a day.
Oh, great, thunderstorms coming--now I gotta go rig a tarp over the
holes.
>
> --
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
John wrote:
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 14:58:54 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
>> the previous owner of the property.
>>
>> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
>> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on
>> the
>> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
>> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on
>> sheet of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>>
>> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
>> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
>> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the
>> ends
>> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
>> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar
>> paper,
>> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
>> plywood.
>> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
>> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
>> plywood between shingles in places).
>> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or
>> not.
>> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from
>> somewhere
>> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the
>> rafter, and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten
>> high enough to see where it was coming from yet).
>>
>> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>>
>> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
>> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
>> he's just left it alone.
>>
>> --
>
> Wonder if he was related to the mechanical engineer who previously
> owned the house we're in?
>
> - ceramic tile floor in the hallway has an obvious dip (1/4" or
> more)
> in the center
> - ceramic tile floor in the kitchen had no thresholds even though
> it
> was "toe buster" height about the dining room carpet (as well as
> having a dip in the center)
> - circuit breakers were double tapped to get 220 to his air
> compressor
> - double doors to the screen porch had no weatherstrip between them
> (opening 1/8" wide and 7' high)
> - no caulk around the windows or doors
> - no weatherstrip on sides/top of basement garage door
> - joint between garage floor and driveway filled with what appears
> to
> have been mortar mix (didn't last summer/winter temperature changes)
>
> - don't know if he or the previous owner finished the basement
> bathroom with paneling and a suspended ceiling
>
> - etc
>
> He had commented about how much it cost to heat/cool the house.
> I lowered the heating cost $90 from one month to the next by adding
> caulk, weatherstrip, and storm windows (all paid for by the savings
> over two winters). Still working on adding insulation...
This guy had the garage insulated. My first inkling that there was a
problem with the roof was when the ceiling fell down.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Started tearing the old roof of the garage, which had been built by
>> the previous owner of the property.
>>
>> So far, after raking and sweeping off all the leaves and topsoil I
>> could reach from a scaffold (I'm not _about_ to put my weight on
>> the
>> roof deck until I see what it looks like from both the top and the
>> bottom) I started tearing off shingles on the shed part. Got on
>> sheet of decking cleared and decided to take five and vent.
>>
>> First thing, he used shingles on a relatively shallow slope.
>> Next, along the edge for about two inches there's no deck, just
>> shingles. Of course the shingles have long since failed so the
>> ends
>> of _every_ rafter are rotted.
>> There's no sign of anything resembling an underlayment--no tar
>> paper,
>> no ice and water shield, no _nothing_, just shingles directly on
>> plywood.
>> Cheap shingles, thin as a piece of poster board.
>> About 9/10 coverage (i.e. not even quite single coverage--I can see
>> plywood between shingles in places).
>> Each shingle got two and only two nails whether it needed it or
>> not.
>> Between two sheets of decking water's been coming down from
>> somewhere
>> higher up--it's rotted the ends of the decking, the top of the
>> rafter, and the roof plate (may not be his fault--haven't gotten
>> high enough to see where it was coming from yet).
>>
>> That's one sheet of decking clear, 25 more to go.
>>
>> The guy meant well, but every repair that he's made to the house so
>> far I've had to redo to fix what he screwed up. Been better off if
>> he's just left it alone.
>>
>
> This sounds like the kind of thing that would have been spotted in a
> good presale house inspection.
A good one perhaps. The guy I paid found evidence of repairs to the
bathroom and a crack in the chimney base and that was pretty much
_it_. I've been looking for that crack for years and not found it,
and the repairs to the bathroom were fine--what wasn't fine was that
he didn't fix the condition that caused the repairs to be needed in
the first place.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 7, 2:48 pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>>> The unfortunate part is, the rubber roofs look like crap.
>
> If it is a true rubber roof like Hypalon, yes it does. But that is
> a
> real rubber roof.
>
>> AFAIK, there's three styles that you can get: White, Black, and
>> granulated. The granulated is like shingles, but without the lines
>> between tabs.
>
> You are mixing your materials. Rubber roof does indeed come in
> Black
> and White. It is applied and cemented much like an old bicycle tire
> tube.
>
> However, rubber does not come in granulated.
>
> The granulated material is SBS (modified bitumen) and comes in many
> colors and although not always, is mostly granulated. It is used on
> commercial roofs and on many low slope applications. There are
> different grades and applications methods; some are for "residential
> type" which are thinner than the commercial grade materials. The
> thicker type is the only one I used, and it can be purchased in 5
> basic colors. Depending on the actual product itself, it can be
> applied with hot mopped asphalt, cold adhesive or with an open flame
> torch (called "torch" grade). All are intended for low/zero slope
> applications and are designed for specific application requirements.
>
> All are "self healing" to some extent and are used extensively as
> underlayment for low slope applications under shingles or concrete
> tiles, or where water is known to be expected to travel such as in a
> valley on a clay tile roof. It fits neatly under the metal and
> still
> allows the valley and the adjoining screeds to be mechanically
> attached without fear of leaks from surface penetration.
>
>> I wonder if you could glue shingles down on top of rubber
>> roofing...
>
> No. Not on a real rubber roof. The compatible glue with shingles
> will eat into the rubber surface and eventually dissolve it. We
> made
> a lot of money repairing the roof at a local mall where the
> Firestone
> version of Hypalon was incorrectly repaired with a petroleum based
> product.
>
> But on SBS (modified bitumen) we do it all the time and it works
> great.
FWIW, I'm planning on putting down GAF Liberty SBS on the low slope
(note--it's not zero slope) area. I figure that if it ever has to
come off that's going to be a pain in the butt but it should last me
as long as I'm likely to need it.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 7, 4:47 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> FWIW, I'm planning on putting down GAF Liberty SBS on the low slope
>> (note--it's not zero slope) area. I figure that if it ever has to
>> come off that's going to be a pain in the butt but it should last
>> me
>> as long as I'm likely to need it.
>
> John - just a thought here.
>
> In case the roof is damaged in some way or begins to leak, a direct
> glue product will kill you. Also, while a quality product like GAF
> SBS ( I use their AWAPLAN as my choice) will move and stretch with
> the
> changing of the seasons, eventually the solvents will leave and so
> will the elasticity.
>
> Direct glue products accelerate this process as they move with the
> decking. If you will put down a mechanically fastened non-sanded
> closed face (not spun fiberglass!) base sheet down and nail/tin cap
> the crap out of the it you will have a better roof. The base sheet
> will act as a slip sheet in this case and allow the cap sheet to
> move
> independently of the roof, preventing accelerated wear patterns.
>
> Also, in case there are repairs needed or modifications need to be
> made, the base sheet will be difficult to get up, but not nearly as
> hard as a direct glue product. After a few years, the direct glue
> SBS
> comes up from a wood deck in pieces the size of your fist.
>
> No doubt, you have seen this pdf detailing out the installation
> procedures and expanded clear shots of the flashing details.
>
> http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20352.pdf
>
> I do a lot of roofing and roof repairs as well as having been an
> inspector for Allied Signal Roofing Division. So if you have any
> questions you think I could help with, fire away and I will try to
> help.
There's a mechanically fastened base sheet for the Liberty
system--I'll see if Home Despot can order it for me. Thanks.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 8, 12:25 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> There's a mechanically fastened base sheet for the Liberty
>> system--I'll see if Home Despot can order it for me. Thanks.
>
> Absolutely no problem. If you don't want to screw with HD, just go
> to
> a roofing supply vendor and tell them you want unsanded non-adhesive
> backed base for SBS. They all carry it.
I asked, they said they were "wholesale only" and told me to have Home
Depot order it from them.
> And with business as slow as it is, they would probably be happy to
> see you in the store. While you are there, don't forget the primer
> for you metal flashings. It's nasty cheap, but really great
> insurance
> for SBS adhesion to eave strip and flashing metal. They have the
> spec
> on that link above, but once again, just about any brand of primer
> will work. We use Henry brand around here as it's all they carry.
FWIW, GAF has a kit for the Liberty system that includes the primer,
adhesive, etc that's supposed to be sufficient for 200 square feet.
_That_ HD has in stock.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 8, 12:25 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> There's a mechanically fastened base sheet for the Liberty
>> system--I'll see if Home Despot can order it for me. Thanks.
>
> Absolutely no problem. If you don't want to screw with HD, just go
> to
> a roofing supply vendor and tell them you want unsanded non-adhesive
> backed base for SBS. They all carry it.
>
> And with business as slow as it is, they would probably be happy to
> see you in the store. While you are there, don't forget the primer
> for you metal flashings. It's nasty cheap, but really great
> insurance
> for SBS adhesion to eave strip and flashing metal. They have the
> spec
> on that link above, but once again, just about any brand of primer
> will work. We use Henry brand around here as it's all they carry.
Well, Home Depot can't get the non-adhesive base, Bradco supply has
never heard of it, ABC supply has it but won't sell it to me or to
Home Depot, finally the guy at the local hardware store did enough
digging to find out what the problem was--non-adhesive base for SBS is
apparently not sold north of the Mason Dixon Line.
So, my choices seem to be to have a friend in Atlanta get some there
and send it to me or to just go with Liberty on the self-adhesive base
and do it by the GAF book.
One problem is that local code requires that there be SBS applied to
the decking on low slope roofs here--apparently what a lot of roofers
do is put down Weatherwatch and then put the Liberty cap sheet right
on top of it instead of using the Liberty base. So even if I do use
the non-adhesive base I'm going to have to put Ice and Water Shield or
Weatherwatch or something similar under it to meet code.
So, what sounds like the best option?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)