Hi All,
So I have been working on some handcut mortises again, and keep getting
frustated with my chisels, hoping someone might have some info to help.
I bought a handful of Hamlet Crafttools mortise chisels last year, and
have used all of them off and on. I have noticed with the larger sized
ones (5/8 and 1") I can't seem to get an edge to hold, they roll over
within minutes. Today I dutifully sharpened the 5/8" prior to using,
and before I had even made the first pass on the first motice in 8/4
cherry the edge was starting to roll. I am using Norton stones, and the
MKII honing guide from lee valley, dialed in to 30 degrees. I seem to
recall someone posting recently that they had noticed that with newer
chisels sometimes it takes a couple sharpenings before the steel seems
to hold at all. So what the hell I though, and went down to 220 for a
while, then back up through 8000, nice edge though with a much more
pronounced wire that had to be removed. Once again I start chopping,
only to have the damn thing roll again.
Is there something I could be doing wrong? Am i expecting too much? Or
is this a case where I should have spent 80 bucks rather than 45 to get
some decent steel.
Either way I'm annoyed and wondering if I can return the damn things a
year after i bought them...
Thanks in advance for any thoughts
Andrew
Andrew, if you put a secondary bevel of 20 degrees on your mortise
chisels that will take care of your problem.
Tattooed and Dusty wrote:
> Hi All,
> So I have been working on some handcut mortises again, and keep getting
> frustated with my chisels, hoping someone might have some info to help.
>
> I bought a handful of Hamlet Crafttools mortise chisels last year, and
> have used all of them off and on. I have noticed with the larger sized
> ones (5/8 and 1") I can't seem to get an edge to hold, they roll over
> within minutes. Today I dutifully sharpened the 5/8" prior to using,
> and before I had even made the first pass on the first motice in 8/4
> cherry the edge was starting to roll. I am using Norton stones, and the
> MKII honing guide from lee valley, dialed in to 30 degrees. I seem to
> recall someone posting recently that they had noticed that with newer
> chisels sometimes it takes a couple sharpenings before the steel seems
> to hold at all. So what the hell I though, and went down to 220 for a
> while, then back up through 8000, nice edge though with a much more
> pronounced wire that had to be removed. Once again I start chopping,
> only to have the damn thing roll again.
>
> Is there something I could be doing wrong? Am i expecting too much? Or
> is this a case where I should have spent 80 bucks rather than 45 to get
> some decent steel.
>
> Either way I'm annoyed and wondering if I can return the damn things a
> year after i bought them...
>
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts
>
> Andrew
If the edge is rolling rather than chipping, they are soft.
"Tattooed and Dusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
> So I have been working on some handcut mortises again, and keep getting
> frustated with my chisels, hoping someone might have some info to help.
>
> I bought a handful of Hamlet Crafttools mortise chisels last year, and
> have used all of them off and on. I have noticed with the larger sized
> ones (5/8 and 1") I can't seem to get an edge to hold, they roll over
> within minutes. Today I dutifully sharpened the 5/8" prior to using,
> and before I had even made the first pass on the first motice in 8/4
> cherry the edge was starting to roll. I am using Norton stones, and the
> MKII honing guide from lee valley, dialed in to 30 degrees. I seem to
> recall someone posting recently that they had noticed that with newer
> chisels sometimes it takes a couple sharpenings before the steel seems
> to hold at all. So what the hell I though, and went down to 220 for a
> while, then back up through 8000, nice edge though with a much more
> pronounced wire that had to be removed. Once again I start chopping,
> only to have the damn thing roll again.
>
> Is there something I could be doing wrong? Am i expecting too much? Or
> is this a case where I should have spent 80 bucks rather than 45 to get
> some decent steel.
>
> Either way I'm annoyed and wondering if I can return the damn things a
> year after i bought them...
>
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts
>
> Andrew
>
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:18:08 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 15 Nov 2005 08:40:58 -0800, "Tattooed and Dusty"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>Thanks for the initial round of comments. Can anyone recommend some
>>>mortise chisels that this won't happen with? Are Ray Illes the ones to
>>>trust?
>>>
>>>What would be involved with tempering these to make them harder, or is
>>>that a dream?
>>>
>>>Andrew
>>
>>
>> you'll access a better group for that question over at
>> rec.crafts.metalwork
>
>rec.crafts.metalworking
>
thanks :)
On 15 Nov 2005 08:40:58 -0800, "Tattooed and Dusty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi All,
>Thanks for the initial round of comments. Can anyone recommend some
>mortise chisels that this won't happen with? Are Ray Illes the ones to
>trust?
>
>What would be involved with tempering these to make them harder, or is
>that a dream?
>
>Andrew
you'll access a better group for that question over at
rec.crafts.metalwork
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 15 Nov 2005 08:40:58 -0800, "Tattooed and Dusty"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Hi All,
>>Thanks for the initial round of comments. Can anyone recommend some
>>mortise chisels that this won't happen with? Are Ray Illes the ones to
>>trust?
>>
>>What would be involved with tempering these to make them harder, or is
>>that a dream?
>>
>>Andrew
>
>
> you'll access a better group for that question over at
> rec.crafts.metalwork
rec.crafts.metalworking
On 14 Nov 2005 17:45:09 -0800, "Tattooed and Dusty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi All,
>So I have been working on some handcut mortises again, and keep getting
>frustated with my chisels, hoping someone might have some info to help.
>
>I bought a handful of Hamlet Crafttools mortise chisels last year, and
>have used all of them off and on. I have noticed with the larger sized
>ones (5/8 and 1") I can't seem to get an edge to hold, they roll over
>within minutes. Today I dutifully sharpened the 5/8" prior to using,
>and before I had even made the first pass on the first motice in 8/4
>cherry the edge was starting to roll. I am using Norton stones, and the
>MKII honing guide from lee valley, dialed in to 30 degrees. I seem to
>recall someone posting recently that they had noticed that with newer
>chisels sometimes it takes a couple sharpenings before the steel seems
>to hold at all.
that was me. in the cases where I have seen this, the edge didn't
roll, though- it looked more like chipping, or even like metal had
been torn out of the tool. the kind of thing you'd expect from brittle
steel.
> So what the hell I though, and went down to 220 for a
>while, then back up through 8000, nice edge though with a much more
>pronounced wire that had to be removed. Once again I start chopping,
>only to have the damn thing roll again.
sounds like the steel is too soft to hold an edge. your options-
sharpen very frequently.
use these as utility chisels and get better for chopping.
return them and get better.
have a go at hardening and tempering these.
>
>Is there something I could be doing wrong? Am i expecting too much? Or
>is this a case where I should have spent 80 bucks rather than 45 to get
>some decent steel.
>
>Either way I'm annoyed and wondering if I can return the damn things a
>year after i bought them...
>
>Thanks in advance for any thoughts
>
>Andrew
"Tattooed and Dusty" <[email protected]> writes:
> Hi All,
> Thanks for the initial round of comments. Can anyone recommend some
> mortise chisels that this won't happen with? Are Ray Illes the ones to
> trust?
I have one ECE mortise chisel of very good quality.
>
> What would be involved with tempering these to make them harder, or is
> that a dream?
If I make some tool that needs to be hardened I heat the steel in a
charcoal fire (think BBQ grill with a small fan) to a dull red (should
be around 850 degrees celsius) and quench quickly in a bucket of
water, but then I only use tool steel thats good for water hardening,
some of the oil hardening wil crack if they are subjected to the
quick quenching that happens in water (oil quenches slower!).
After that I annael them for 2 hours at 200 degrees Celsius in the
stove to relieve internal stresses and bring the hardness down from
overly brittle to a good working hardness.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23