Is Usnet Dying?

Luigi Zanasi writes:

>I guess you couldn't afford a dedicated word processor such as an AES
>(although I think that was a Canadian company) or a Wang before the
>PCs came along.

You got that right.

>I also remember using C/PM machines and falling in love with
>Supercalc. Of course, I quickly ran up my spreadsheets to 64K, so it
>was back to FORTRAN or SAS to do lots of arithmetic.

You know, to this day, I haven't got a clue as to how to operate ANY
spreadsheet. Don't want one, either.

Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

Silvan writes:

>> As a writer, I found the ability to go back and erase or change half a
>
>It *ruined* Piers Anthony. After he discovered computers, he started
>writing crap.

Some will say he just practiced writing crap before computers, then was able to
turn up the output so it was noticeable.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

CharlieDIY wrote:

>>> As a writer, I found the ability to go back and erase or change half a
>>
>>It *ruined* Piers Anthony. After he discovered computers, he started
>>writing crap.
>
>Some will say he just practiced writing crap before computers, then was able
>to
>turn up the output so it was noticeable.
>

Another point: I quit reading Anthony years ago for a reason other than his
deteriorating writing: I got sick of his constant whines at the end of every
book about how badly his most recently dumped publisher treated him. Every
writer can complain about publishers, every writer either changes publishers or
uses more than one, unless they're in the fortunate position of having each
book sell a few hundred thousand copies in its first couple months. It's known
as making a living, something that isn't all pleasure for anyone I know.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

Charlie Self wrote:

> Another point: I quit reading Anthony years ago for a reason other than
> his deteriorating writing: I got sick of his constant whines at the end
of every book about how badly his most recently dumped publisher treated

Yeah, me too. I was tempted to mail him a block of cheese at the end of
every book. Wah.

I really liked his early stuff, but it could well be due to my age at the
time.

> Every writer can complain about publishers, every writer either changes
> publishers or uses more than one, unless they're in the fortunate position

Or never gets published. Let's not forget that most writers by volume can't
get published unless they pay for the privledge. The ones earning any
money at all are the fortunate few. :)

(DAMHIKT... No I didn't actually pay to get published. I just gave up.
500 billion other people writing better versions of everything I ever
thought of writing. There are 10 trillion would-be authors in the world,
and only 500 of them make any money. Only 10 of them actually earn a
decent living at it. Sour grapes, hyperbole, sour grapes, hyperbole... :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan responds:

>> Every writer can complain about publishers, every writer either changes
>> publishers or uses more than one, unless they're in the fortunate position
>
>Or never gets published. Let's not forget that most writers by volume can't
>get published unless they pay for the privledge. The ones earning any
>money at all are the fortunate few. :)
>
>(DAMHIKT... No I didn't actually pay to get published. I just gave up.
>500 billion other people writing better versions of everything I ever
>thought of writing. There are 10 trillion would-be authors in the world,
>and only 500 of them make any money. Only 10 of them actually earn a
>decent living at it. Sour grapes, hyperbole, sour grapes, hyperbole... :)

Depends on what you're writing, I think. I'm working on book #41 (might be #42:
I lost count) now, and will shortly sign for another. The money is NOT good for
woodworking writers, but it does seem to do a better job of being a long term
deal than do magazine articles. I've got one book I wrote in late '84 that
still brings in a few hundred bucks a year. That's about the only one, though,
which is largely my fault because a lot of the early books were written during
a deteriorating home situation when the money in hand was more necessary than
money in 2003, and onward. Flat fee stuff, in other words.

And far more than 500 make money at it. Let's not forget there are well over
40,000 books published annually in the U.S. alone. Maybe way more by now. And
Internet publishing has increased the actual numbers more than a little.

But there may not be many more than 5000 in this country who make GOOD money at
book writing. By good, I mean having the need to do only one book a year as
primary income source, and making at least 4 times the per U.S. capita income
($30,941 in 2002).

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

Charlie Self wrote:

> Depends on what you're writing, I think. I'm working on book #41 (might be
> #42: I lost count) now, and will shortly sign for another. The money is

I can only imagine. Closest I came to getting published was a nice offer to
get a few volumes printed up for $2,000 or something like that.

Of course, I'm not saying I'm necessarily that good of a writer to start
with. That's part of the problem, really. I think I write very well, but
it doesn't matter what *I* think of my writing...

Anyway, all my self-piteous hyperbolic whining aside, I'm glad you're making
money doing something I've only dreamed of. Good on ya.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:39:16 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>>>money doing something I've only dreamed of. Good on ya.
>>
>
>> eventually went back to school, and ended up with a BA in English, which
>> is really not a whole lot of help in writing. Couldn't find a job and had
>
>Hee... Me too, 'cept mine's in Spanish, French and Latin. Same thing,
>really. You read Dickens and Chaucer and Poe and Twain (or whomever) and I
>read Borges and Fuentes and des Cartes and Sartre and Caesar and Pliny.
>It's all pretty damn useless in the real world.

Au contraire, mi amigo. You'll need that Spanish in the new world
order in Norte America after the Shrub wrings the money out of the
US treasury and Señor Fox takes over. He already has just a few of
his agents here in the States, ready to help.

>> The money's not great, but it can be very, very enjoyable.

Which can be enjoyable, the money or the work?


>I've always thought it would be indeed, but I've just never gotten over the
>initial hump. I've even thought about trying to get on with the local rag
>as a columnist of some sort. I ca'nt do any wosre than the peuple they of
>rigint fore than now, and it might earn me wood money.

Sounds more like they need a freakin' editor, Charlie. Go for it!
We're all behind you.


==========================================================
CAUTION: Do not use remaining fingers as pushsticks!
==========================================================
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Silvan writes:

>Anyway, all my self-piteous hyperbolic whining aside, I'm glad you're making
>money doing something I've only dreamed of. Good on ya.

Sort of an accident, too. I got out of the Marines and went to work for a small
ad agency, ending a short period as a copywriter. From there, I eventually went
back to school, and ended up with a BA in English, which is really not a whole
lot of help in writing. Couldn't find a job and had sold a couple items, so I
started freelancing motorcycle off-road stuff in upstate NY. Or from upstate
NY. That worked, so I slipped into DIY magazines and thence into woodworking.

The money's not great, but it can be very, very enjoyable.

Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Au contraire, mi amigo. You'll need that Spanish in the new world
> order in Norte America after the Shrub wrings the money out of the
> US treasury and Señor Fox takes over. He already has just a few of
> his agents here in the States, ready to help.

Doubt it. Most of those guys don't speak any language I can understand
anyway. It's about as close to textbook Spanish as that black hip hop
dialect is to textbook English, right right, nowumsain?

> Sounds more like they need a freakin' editor, Mikey. Go for it!
> We're all behind you.

Yeah thay dew fore shore.

I'm exaggerating, but really, some of their writing is truly *awful*.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan writes:

>> Sounds more like they need a freakin' editor, Mikey. Go for it!
>> We're all behind you.
>
>Yeah thay dew fore shore.
>
>I'm exaggerating, but really, some of their writing is truly *awful*.

Then you had better never move to Parkersburg. This newspaper is dreadful on
its good days. The TV station is worse, but continues to win awards.
Incredible. The talking heats mumble, don't know the difference 'tween 'of' and
'for' and lots of good stuff like that.

A lot like my ex-boss, who had a good chance at spelling 'cat'...if you spotted
her the 'c', the 't' and explained that it was a small, furry animal that
purred. And she was sure that "cat's" was plural.


Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

>>The only thing that bug's me more than people who don't know how to use
>>apostrophe's are people who put accents where they don't belong to make
> ^^^^^!!!!
> Isn't there a fundamental law of the universe stating that any usenet
> post complaining about or correcting spelling and grammatical mistakes
> will have spelling and/or grammar errors? :-)

Is your irony detector broken? :)

> I agree with you. My pet peeve is that dishwatery Seattle imitation of
> real caffè latte (in Italian) or café au lait (in French), the so
> called "Latté". Latte means milk, not coffee, and takes no accent.

I never thought about that. Of course, I don't know Italian. I can only
fake it a little.

> There is no longer any excuse with the multitude of language
> dictionaries on the web to misspell foreign words.

Nope.

> Here's a business idea for you, Silvan. Offer your services as an
> editor at the multitude of French and Spanish web sites with horrible
> English translations. For relatively benign examples, go see:

Hmmmm... That's a good angle to think about. Translations into one's
native tongue are always fundamentally better.

> Manuals". BTW, "Adieu" is one word. ;-)

Is it?

Yup. It is. Did it used to be two words, the way "today" used to be
spelled with a hypen? :)

Oh well. I freely admit my French sucks anyway. French never has been my
language. I only studied it because it was the only other offering at my
high school, and once I had it, I just continued. My accent is pretty
wretched too. I never have been able to get the vowels right.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Then you had better never move to Parkersburg. This newspaper is dreadful on
> its good days. The TV station is worse, but continues to win awards.
> Incredible. The talking heats mumble, don't know the difference 'tween 'of' and
> 'for' and lots of good stuff like that.
>
There was a letter to the editor in our local paper the other day where
someone complained that the letter writers should "get their thoughts in
order" before writing letters.

I couldn't resist. I wrote a letter pointing out that such a requirement
would reduce the volume by at least 2/3rds and deprive me and others of
much amusement.

Sort of "trolling" in the newspaper. I wonder how many flames I'll get
:-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Charlie Self wrote:

> spotted her the 'c', the 't' and explained that it was a small, furry
> animal that purred. And she was sure that "cat's" was plural.

The only thing that bug's me more than people who don't know how to use
apostrophe's are people who put accents where they don't belong to make
things look "classy." There's some outfit that does strip malls all over
the Carolinas. Red and white signs that say "[Town Name] Centré."

The é in this instance is comparable to the -ed suffix in English, so those
signs read [Town Name] Centered. Just bugs the hell out of me.

Or worse, people who put accents on words that should have them, but the
wrong accents, or on the wrong letters. I've met women named Reneé (very
common) Reneè (equally common) and various permutations. Just makes me
want to slap people. Better not to do it at all than to try and get it
wrong.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:19:28 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> scribbled

>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> spotted her the 'c', the 't' and explained that it was a small, furry
>> animal that purred. And she was sure that "cat's" was plural.
>
>The only thing that bug's me more than people who don't know how to use
>apostrophe's are people who put accents where they don't belong to make
^^^^^!!!!
Isn't there a fundamental law of the universe stating that any usenet
post complaining about or correcting spelling and grammatical mistakes
will have spelling and/or grammar errors? :-)

>things look "classy." There's some outfit that does strip malls all over
>the Carolinas. Red and white signs that say "[Town Name] Centré."
>
>The é in this instance is comparable to the -ed suffix in English, so those
>signs read [Town Name] Centered. Just bugs the hell out of me.

I agree with you. My pet peeve is that dishwatery Seattle imitation of
real caffè latte (in Italian) or café au lait (in French), the so
called "Latté". Latte means milk, not coffee, and takes no accent.

>Or worse, people who put accents on words that should have them, but the
>wrong accents, or on the wrong letters. I've met women named Reneé (very
>common) Reneè (equally common) and various permutations. Just makes me
>want to slap people. Better not to do it at all than to try and get it
>wrong.

In my eyes, this is just as stupid and hilarious as the many
mistranslations of English seen in various tourist establishments
across the world and circulated throughout the net. You want to make
Italians laugh at your ignorance and pretension, spell it "latté". Or
calling a mall "[Town] Centré" is equally hilarious to francophones.

There is no longer any excuse with the multitude of language
dictionaries on the web to misspell foreign words.

Here's a business idea for you, Silvan. Offer your services as an
editor at the multitude of French and Spanish web sites with horrible
English translations. For relatively benign examples, go see:

http://www.uselinuxathome.com/ENindex.htm

or bits of the (OBWW) General web site

http://www.general.ca/

like "Security First" instead of "Safety First" and "Instructions
Manuals". BTW, "Adieu" is one word. ;-)

Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:56:21 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> scribbled

>Luigi Zanasi wrote:
>
>>>The only thing that bug's me more than people who don't know how to use
>>>apostrophe's are people who put accents where they don't belong to make
>> ^^^^^!!!!
>> Isn't there a fundamental law of the universe stating that any usenet
>> post complaining about or correcting spelling and grammatical mistakes
>> will have spelling and/or grammar errors? :-)
>
>Is your irony detector broken? :)

Oops! It was. My lame excuse is that I dinna see "bug's", which makes
it rather obvious.

<snip>
>> Manuals". BTW, "Adieu" is one word. ;-)
>
>Is it?
>
>Yup. It is. Did it used to be two words, the way "today" used to be
>spelled with a hypen? :)

Yup, comes from "à Dieu" according to my Larousse. But that was way
before you were born. :)

>Oh well. I freely admit my French sucks anyway. French never has been my
>language. I only studied it because it was the only other offering at my
>high school, and once I had it, I just continued. My accent is pretty
>wretched too. I never have been able to get the vowels right.

That comes from speaking a mouth-deforming language like English all
your life. Almost no pure vowels, all diphthongs. And then you
Murricans insist on diphthonguizing some that should be pure, like the
"a" in cat.

Luigi
Writing this while drinking his second caffè latte this morning.
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address

Charlie Self wrote:

>>money doing something I've only dreamed of. Good on ya.
>

> eventually went back to school, and ended up with a BA in English, which
> is really not a whole lot of help in writing. Couldn't find a job and had

Hee... Me too, 'cept mine's in Spanish, French and Latin. Same thing,
really. You read Dickens and Chaucer and Poe and Twain (or whomever) and I
read Borges and Fuentes and des Cartes and Sartre and Caesar and Pliny.
It's all pretty damn useless in the real world.

Stupid me, if I had realized that majoring in foreign languages meant
spending the last two thirds of my time doing literary analysis of the same
sort of yawn fodder I could have been reading as an English major (no
offense), I would have changed to biology or anthropology or something.

Probably wouldn't have changed the net outcome, and I'd still be driving a
truck, but I wish I hadn't pissed away my free education studying something
both useless and mind numbingly boring. I thought it was about *language*
(and it was, in the beginning), not *literature*.

Grammar, syntax, etymology, linguistics. Nope. Instead, it's about
spending 30 pages bullshitting about the deep significance of the author's
peculiar choice of subject pronouns in some book so intensely boring I
never could bring myself to finish it. (/La muerte de Artemio Cruz/ to be
precise, and I haven't a clue who wrote it.)

> The money's not great, but it can be very, very enjoyable.

I've always thought it would be indeed, but I've just never gotten over the
initial hump. I've even thought about trying to get on with the local rag
as a columnist of some sort. I ca'nt do any wosre than the peuple they of
rigint fore than now, and it might earn me wood money.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:57:37 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Yeah, well, quit whining, McIntyre, and join the fucking club. I know. I
>know.

Exactly!

>Though I *would* like to get in print some day, so some of the original
>words I've invented can eventually wend their way into the OED. ;)

We ALL get in print some day. I'd like to wait just a little
longer...thank you very much! lol



Wishing you and yours a happy Thanksgiving season...

Trent

Silvan writes:

>Hee... Me too, 'cept mine's in Spanish, French and Latin. Same thing,
>really. You read Dickens and Chaucer and Poe and Twain (or whomever) and I
>read Borges and Fuentes and des Cartes and Sartre and Caesar and Pliny.
>It's all pretty damn useless in the real world.

Read most of those, too, except in translation. Sartre translates well.

>Stupid me, if I had realized that majoring in foreign languages meant
>spending the last two thirds of my time doing literary analysis of the same
>sort of yawn fodder I could have been reading as an English major (no
>offense), I would have changed to biology or anthropology or something.

>Grammar, syntax, etymology, linguistics. Nope. Instead, it's about
>spending 30 pages bullshitting about the deep significance of the author's
>peculiar choice of subject pronouns in some book so intensely boring I
>never could bring myself to finish it. (/La muerte de Artemio Cruz/ to be
>precise, and I haven't a clue who wrote it.)

Water symbolism in Sir Gawain & The Green Knight. Or some such. It may have
been in The Great Gatsby, which was at least interesting reading, which SGATGK
was not. Of historical interest, but otherwise pure crap.

>I've always thought it would be indeed, but I've just never gotten over the
>initial hump. I've even thought about trying to get on with the local rag
>as a columnist of some sort. I ca'nt do any wosre than the peuple they of
>rigint fore than now, and it might earn me wood money

Dunno, man. The Roanoke paper is excellent for a small city. You should read
the Parkersburg paper. Or listen to the one local TV station. Stupidity reigns.
Does Blacksburg have its own paper?


Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

Silvan wrote:
> Mark Jerde wrote:
>
>> Anything you can safely do whilst driving, like listening to teaching
>> tapes
>> & voice recording thoughts & ideas? I've listened to 1000's of
>> hours of tapes over the years...
>
> I listen to lots o' stuff, but I have narry a clue how anything of
> that flavor might give me better options job wise.

Well, just off the top of my head, putting myself in your shoes, thinking
about "How can I make some money off my love of languages?"
- Written / spoken translation service. Uncle Sammy's so desperate for
some languages, I hear, you might be able to do it from your home.
- Tutoring
-- Foreign languages
-- English to U.S. newbies

I'm not saying these ideas are any good. Just agreeing with the late Earl
Nightengale that you can come up with at least one idea that can change your
life for the better.

-- Mark

Mark Jerde wrote:

> I'm not saying these ideas are any good. Just agreeing with the late Earl
> Nightengale that you can come up with at least one idea that can change
> your life for the better.

None of your ideas are bad per se, but they're variations on themes I've
pondered many times before. All I can really say is that I don't see
anything language-related in my future, for any of myriad reasons. A
decade ago, it might have been different, but I'm not the same person I was
then. The skills and the interest are both long cold.

When I no longer have to drive a truck to stave off bankruptcy, and can
weather a pay cut, I'll probably move into a different job with the same
employer. I'm already lining something up. I like my employer a great
deal; just not my job. The main reason I'm reaching a point where I can no
longer tolerate my job is because standing on an accelerator 10 hours a day
is ruining my knee.

Transferring to new job at the same place is a very practical, pragmatic,
mature dream. I keep my years of service, vacation, 401(k), profit
sharing, etc. These things are more important to me at this stage of life
than *what* I do for a living. I'd like to have a rewarding, fulfilling
career, but nothing I would *like* to do is capable of delivering a
regular, uninterrupted, absolutely dependable stream of income. The
mortgage company doesn't give a damn whether or not I'm content in my work;
they just want the house payment on time.

That, or I win the lottery and pay off the house. Then I have lots of
options.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:

> Well, *those* dreams. I still have dreams. Different dreams.
> Mostly I'd like to find some profession that doesn't feel like a
> black hole for the hours I spend doing it. Something that could be
> part of my life, instead of something I have to wade through to get
> to the life bits in between.

Anything you can safely do whilst driving, like listening to teaching tapes
& voice recording thoughts & ideas? I've listened to 1000's of hours of
tapes over the years...

-- Mark

Mark Jerde wrote:

> Anything you can safely do whilst driving, like listening to teaching
> tapes
> & voice recording thoughts & ideas? I've listened to 1000's of hours of
> tapes over the years...

I listen to lots o' stuff, but I have narry a clue how anything of that
flavor might give me better options job wise.

I guess really what I need to do is finish paying off some bills, so I can
afford to take a massive pay cut. If I could work for less money, I'd have
a lot of options. T minus 24 months or thereabouts.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On 29 Nov 2003 09:02:39 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:

>Water symbolism in Sir Gawain & The Green Knight. Or some such.

Heh. My sister's Doctoral dissertation was on something in Sir Gawain
& the Green Knight - Maybe the origin of feminism in it or something.

Me, I was Co-Author of a computer book several years ago. Seems like I
made $2500 or so.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass writes:

>
>Me, I was Co-Author of a computer book several years ago. Seems like I
>made $2500 or so.
>

Yeah, well...with 2 exceptions, I made more money in royalties off some 12 page
booklets I wrote back in '67 and '68 that were distributed, free by Lions'
Clubs, IIRC, to high school driver ed classes. And I only got half the
royalties because there was a "co-author" on the best of them. The co-authoer
loaned us his better known name, essentially, for half the payment. If memory
serves, I got about half a 8% royalty on a 25 or 30 cent booklet, but made
about $4500 the first year off at least one of them. Takes a lot of booklets...

Charlie Self

"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who
believe it." George Carlin

On 02 Dec 2003 03:07:23 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:

>Tim Douglass writes:
>
>>
>>Me, I was Co-Author of a computer book several years ago. Seems like I
>>made $2500 or so.
>>
>
>Yeah, well...with 2 exceptions, I made more money in royalties off some 12 page
>booklets I wrote back in '67 and '68 that were distributed, free by Lions'
>Clubs, IIRC, to high school driver ed classes. And I only got half the
>royalties because there was a "co-author" on the best of them. The co-authoer
>loaned us his better known name, essentially, for half the payment. If memory
>serves, I got about half a 8% royalty on a 25 or 30 cent booklet, but made
>about $4500 the first year off at least one of them. Takes a lot of booklets...

No too bad. To keep it in perspective, two of us worked for about 6
months full-time to produce that book - all for about $2500 each. Not
the best wages I've ever pulled. But the book gave us an "in" with
some people that resulted in a multi-million dollar contract for the
company, which was the real motivation for writing it.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass responds:

>>loaned us his better known name, essentially, for half the payment. If
>memory
>>serves, I got about half a 8% royalty on a 25 or 30 cent booklet, but made
>>about $4500 the first year off at least one of them. Takes a lot of
>booklets...
>
>No too bad. To keep it in perspective, two of us worked for about 6
>months full-time to produce that book - all for about $2500 each. Not
>the best wages I've ever pulled. But the book gave us an "in" with
>some people that resulted in a multi-million dollar contract for the
>company, which was the real motivation for writing it.

That makes more sense. To add some perspective, when I wrote one of those
booklets, I'd just lost a job paying about $110 a week, doing writing and
magazine editing for the local (Schenectady--then channel 17--WMHT) public TV
station.

And I got $300 for my second or third magazine article sale, to Science &
Mechanics.

Charlie Self

"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who
believe it." George Carlin

Charlie Self wrote:

>>It's all pretty damn useless in the real world.
>
> Read most of those, too, except in translation. Sartre translates well.

If you can stay awake long enough. :)

I think the day I really lost my spirit... Well, I had a prof who had kept
saying "use more references" and giving me B's and C's on my papers. See,
I was trying to think for myself, and analyze this stuff to her standards
on my own, which is what I mistook for the underlying purpose of the whole
endeavor.

I decided to show her, so I waited until the night before the paper was due,
then went the library. I checked out all these masters' and doctoral
theses about this book, then proceded to spend the night compiling other
people's thoughts into a new work where every single sentence was either
quoted or paraphrased; all with proper attribution. I made absolutely sure
there wasn't a single original thought or insight in the paper, and that
there was no chance anything I said could be mistaken for having come from
my own mind. Furthermore, I never even read the book I was "analyzing."

The paper came back, "A+++ Excellent! Your best work ever! Why can't you
do this more often?"

That's when it dawned on me that academia is pure bullshit, and Dr. D.
Michael McIntyre was never to be. I just couldn't see it after that, and I
had no idea what else to do with myself, so I got a job at Wal-Mart and
barely scraped through that last semester. I almost didn't graduate, and I
don't think I would have cared if I hadn't. (Having a pregnant
girlfriend-cum-wife at that point of my life didn't do anything to help
either, mind you.)

*That's* why I don't go to the highland festival thing. I never want to see
any of those people again. I didn't go to my graduation, and my diploma
sat around here for years before I bothered to frame it. It doesn't *mean*
anything. Looking back at the photos of my induction into all those
various honor societies, I can't even remember who any of those people were
anymore. All of my dreams evaporated when I got back that stupid paper
that should have been an F, and I was left in limbo.

Well, *those* dreams. I still have dreams. Different dreams. Mostly I'd
like to find some profession that doesn't feel like a black hole for the
hours I spend doing it. Something that could be part of my life, instead
of something I have to wade through to get to the life bits in between.

Yeah, well, quit whining, McIntyre, and join the fucking club. I know. I
know.

> Dunno, man. The Roanoke paper is excellent for a small city. You should

Not the Roanoke paper. No way I'd get on with them. I was talking about
the *local* rag. They of sum prety lame riting in that won. Usually 3/4
of the paper is given over to high school sports, all year round. Probably
the reason why I've never actually bothered to try. I'd get the job, and
then I'd have to feign an interest in high school sports, or else write
about the procedings at the lastest hearing to decide what color to paint
the light poles downtown. I'm not *that* desperate to get my name in print
somewhere.

Though I *would* like to get in print some day, so some of the original
words I've invented can eventually wend their way into the OED. ;)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:39:16 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>>>money doing something I've only dreamed of. Good on ya.
>>
>
>> eventually went back to school, and ended up with a BA in English, which
>> is really not a whole lot of help in writing. Couldn't find a job and had
>
>Hee... Me too, 'cept mine's in Spanish, French and Latin. Same thing,
>really. You read Dickens and Chaucer and Poe and Twain (or whomever) and I
>read Borges and Fuentes and des Cartes and Sartre and Caesar and Pliny.
>It's all pretty damn useless in the real world.

Au contraire, mi amigo. You'll need that Spanish in the new world
order in Norte America after the Shrub wrings the money out of the
US treasury and Señor Fox takes over. He already has just a few of
his agents here in the States, ready to help.

>> The money's not great, but it can be very, very enjoyable.

Which can be enjoyable, the money or the work?


>I've always thought it would be indeed, but I've just never gotten over the
>initial hump. I've even thought about trying to get on with the local rag
>as a columnist of some sort. I ca'nt do any wosre than the peuple they of
>rigint fore than now, and it might earn me wood money.

Sounds more like they need a freakin' editor, Mikey. Go for it!
We're all behind you.


==========================================================
CAUTION: Do not use remaining fingers as pushsticks!
==========================================================
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Larry Jaques writes:

>
>Which can be enjoyable, the money or the work?

Work. Money's money.

>>I've always thought it would be indeed, but I've just never gotten over the
>>initial hump. I've even thought about trying to get on with the local rag
>>as a columnist of some sort. I ca'nt do any wosre than the peuple they of
>>rigint fore than now, and it might earn me wood money.
>
>Sounds more like they need a freakin' editor, Mikey. Go for it!
>We're all behind you.

That's Silvan's area, not mine. No more jobs. I can't deal with the
backstabbing.



Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Silvan writes:
>
> >> As a writer, I found the ability to go back and erase or change half a
> >
> >It *ruined* Piers Anthony. After he discovered computers, he started
> >writing crap.
>
> Some will say he just practiced writing crap before computers, then was able to
> turn up the output so it was noticeable.
>
> Charlie Self
>

I found all of his writings to be pretty tedious, even before
computers.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:37:13 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Brian Henderson wrote:
>
>>>greasy, rip open a few knuckles, make a big mess on my driveway, and not
>>>have any time left over to do anything fun.
>>
>> If you know what you're doing, there's no mess and no ripped knuckles.
>> A socket set, a pair of long-nose pliers and brake parts and you're
>> done in an hour. No muss, no fuss.
>
>Yeah, whatever you say, Chief. No fuss, no muss, sounds like you're a
>freaking master mechanic for sure. Feel free to come by and do my brakes
>any time you want. I guaran-damn-tee you that you won't get through a job
>on one of *my* rust buckets in an hour. It'll probably take you that long
>just to get a wheel off.

Since I have an air compressor for my nail guns I bought an impact
wrench last Spring. That is far and away the best tool I've ever
bought for mechanical work. I've added an air ratchet to it as well.
Wish I'd had those 20 years ago when I was doing lots of work on cars.
Back then buddy and I once changed the clutch on his hot rod in about
2 hours, which isn't too bad when you consider it required removing
and reinstalling the engine.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Mark & Juanita wrote:

> ... he probably is being unrealistic. The last time a lot of people
> bought a CD was seven years ago, and it isn't because they're
> downloading .wav's; there just isn't that much good stuff out there. But

True. I like *looking* at a lot of what's out there now, but with the
volume off for pity's sake!

> then, like I've said before, IMO, they stopped writing music in about
> 1820 or so.

More like the 1700s.

Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a weirdo I
am.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan writes:

>$2500 was always about what it took to get a new computer of any quality.
>
>I guess maybe it still is, but I can't imagine anyone *needing* what $2500
>gets you these days. The Wal-Mart after Thanksgiving cheapass piece of
>crap computer this year is a 2.7 GHz Celeron with 256 MB of RAM, a 40 GB
>hard drive, and a 17" monitor. Eghads. That's what a $498 computer looks
>like today?

It makes my head hurt. I got a new computer about 6 months ago. 3 gig Pentium
4; 1 gig of RAM, 120 gig hard drive. Same old monitor. The thing has some
extras, fast CD burner (no DVD: save that for later, when the prices are down
in the CD range), I had them add a floppy drive, something like 6 USB 2 ports,
modem, network card, couple things I'd have to look up. $1700. For the original
$2500, I think I could have replaced my 19" monitor with a 21" or gotten a good
19" LCD. I got this because I was doing more and more digital photography, and
the loads with the older machine were eating on my nerves.

My wife got my old 1 gig Pentium 3. That has only 3/4 gig of RAM. I've found
over the years that the best and cheapest speed-up is adding RAM.

The youngest kid got the machine my wife had been using (300 mHz?).

Keep it in the family and recycle.

I built both those older machines, so they were a lot cheaper. This time
around, I let George do it.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:33:05 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Well, except for Pink Floyd.

OBWW: "Careful with that axe, Eugene."


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

>>Brian Henderson wrote:

>>Yeah, whatever you say, Chief. No fuss, no muss, sounds like you're a
>>freaking master mechanic for sure. Feel free to come by and do my brakes
>>any time you want. I guaran-damn-tee you that you won't get through a job
>>on one of *my* rust buckets in an hour. It'll probably take you that long
>>just to get a wheel off.

Sounds like your vehicles suffer from both your ham fisted mechanical
skills as well as years of pitiful neglect.

I do ALL my own mechanical work and there is not a single job on any of
my cars I cannot do myself. From a simple brake job, all the way to
dropping the transmission out or pulling the motor and stripping the
block.... and these are OLD New England vehicles (salt+snow+age=rust).

--
John G.
http://www.shavings.net/survival.htm


1987 745 Turbo 440,000 miles
1988 764 Turbo 310,000 miles
1988 765 turbo 145,000 miles

> More like the 1700s.
>
> Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a weirdo I
> am.
>

Floyd and ELP. And nothing else matters I guess...

irax.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > ... he probably is being unrealistic. The last time a lot of people
> > bought a CD was seven years ago, and it isn't because they're
> > downloading .wav's; there just isn't that much good stuff out there. But
>
> True. I like *looking* at a lot of what's out there now, but with the
> volume off for pity's sake!
>
> > then, like I've said before, IMO, they stopped writing music in about
> > 1820 or so.
>
> More like the 1700s.
>
> Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a weirdo I
> am.
>

Nah, I kind of share that kind of taste (or maybe we both aren't
within the 3 sigma limits ;-) )

>

Brian Henderson wrote:

> My point was that it would have cost me 2-3x more to buy an entirely
> new system. One place quoted me $2200 for a computer that I built
> myself for $500. A couple others couldn't even build the system I
> wanted because they only used Intel chips and I wanted AMD.

You were calling the wrong places, mayhap. These people are local, and
they're Chinese. They have really good prices. I think maybe they get
good deals from the manufacturers because they speak Chinese fluently. :)

I wouldn't pay $1700 not to build it myself, but for as much as $50, screw
it, call me when it's ready.

> I do most of my own work. I did my wife's rear brakes a week ago or
> so for $40, which included pads and having both rotors resurfaced. It
> took me about an hour. If I took it to the shop, they'd charge me
> $200 and take 2 days.
>
> Tell me which is better?

If I had $200 I wouldn't miss (and it would take a *lot* for me not to miss
$200, granted), I'd pay the wrench jockey to do it.

Not better, not worse. I can do a brake job. Take an afternoon and get
greasy, rip open a few knuckles, make a big mess on my driveway, and not
have any time left over to do anything fun.

I guess that's it right there. Working on my car used to be an end unto
itself. Something I *did* for fun. Now it's something I *have* to do,
that robs me of time spent doing something else.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan writes:

>
>I guess that's it right there. Working on my car used to be an end unto
>itself. Something I *did* for fun. Now it's something I *have* to do,
>that robs me of time spent doing something else.

Yeah. I can remember doing a lot of work on my old Studebaker because I had to,
but it was also fun. I enjoyed hell out of ripping into my new '57
Chevy...until it came time to tune those dual 4 barrels. Went screaming to my
old man for help then.

But now, I don't even like to check the oil. What a difference a *few* years
can make!


Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:01:03 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>I used to do it twice a year, but I only put 1200 miles a year on my car,
>and it just seems like a waste of money, skin, blood, and hand cleaner.

And all that condensed water in the oil (now creating sulphuric acid)
is actually -good- for the bearings, right?

Do yourself a favor. Spend $18.67 every 4 months at WallyWorld and
get fresh oil installed. (Your engine may outlive you.)


==============================================================
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
==============================================================

Charlie Self wrote:

> But now, I don't even like to check the oil. What a difference a *few*
> years can make!

Yeah, and with me it's only about a decade. Maybe even five years since I
used to enjoy that stuff.

Reminds me, I need to change the oil next year. :)

I used to do it twice a year, but I only put 1200 miles a year on my car,
and it just seems like a waste of money, skin, blood, and hand cleaner.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Swingman wrote:
>
> > ... Hell of it is, judging from what I am hearing these days, I probably
> > turned down a future Grammy engineer.
>
> Yup, probably. One of the guys unloading my truck yesterday... Well, he's
> one of *those* kids. I made some comment in good-natured jest, and his
> reply was "Man, I ain't gonna be doin' this for long, man, I'm gonna go to
> college and become a sound engineer and then I'm gonna be rich as fuck dude
> so be nice to me."
>
> Yeah, OK, sure... I don't even think he's being unrealistic, considering
> the last time I bought a newly-released CD was seven years ago, and it
> wasn't that good. :)
>
>

... he probably is being unrealistic. The last time a lot of people
bought a CD was seven years ago, and it isn't because they're
downloading .wav's; there just isn't that much good stuff out there. But
then, like I've said before, IMO, they stopped writing music in about
1820 or so.

Mark & Juanitia writes:

>> Yup, probably. One of the guys unloading my truck yesterday... Well, he's
>> one of *those* kids. I made some comment in good-natured jest, and his
>> reply was "Man, I ain't gonna be doin' this for long, man, I'm gonna go to
>> college and become a sound engineer and then I'm gonna be rich as fuck dude
>> so be nice to me."
>>
>> Yeah, OK, sure... I don't even think he's being unrealistic, considering
>> the last time I bought a newly-released CD was seven years ago, and it
>> wasn't that good. :)
>>
>>
>
> ... he probably is being unrealistic. The last time a lot of people
>bought a CD was seven years ago, and it isn't because they're
>downloading .wav's; there just isn't that much good stuff out there. But
>then, like I've said before, IMO, they stopped writing music in about
>1820 or so.

I was trying to recall when the last time I bought a CD was...about 2-3 years
ago, picked up a couple Kenny G recordings. At the same time, I bought some
rock music...Bill Haley & The Comets and an old Ann Murray. My musical
sophistication doesn't reach back as far as Mark's, or as deeply probably, but
in all honesty, I can say F**K every other word without paying 15 bucks for the
CD. Or without thinking about someone like Leean Rimes, in an article in
yesterday's paper, talking about how she straightened her life out after "all
her troubles." The kid's 21, worth maybe 50 million bucks, and who gives a
damn.

I can remember his name now...ah, English for yard, Garth something or
other...who kept putting out medicore songs in a medicore voice and selling
millions of copies, while telling his fans that they had to take chances, get
involved. IIRC, he retired at 35 or so, worth nearly half a billion.

I'm not about to add to it.

Charlie Self

"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I saw Keith Emerson spinning and playing 8' off the stage
> wilst strapped to a piano bench and an electric grand piano
> (or was that the MOOG?) at the Cal Jam. THE Cal Jam, not some
> second string later concert. We were close enough to center
> of the infield that the QUAD sound system worked.
> </dating myself>

Ahem. First of all, it's bad form to date yourself, but I guess if
no one else will do it. As for ELP, I saw them play in what I'm
guessing was the same tour (around the time of the release of Brain
Salad Surgery). Quad sound and Emerson was playing what looked like a
cross between a giant B-3 and something from Phantom of the Opera.
(Or was that the drugs?)

They were right in the middle of Take A Pebble (and it's about a 12
minute song on the album, and much longer live) when the cops pulled
the plug and turned all the lights on. It seems they were trying to
enforce a no-smoking ban and some of the crowd wasn't cooperating.
*cough*

While the law officer was waddling offstage, Emerson started into
something that sounded strangely like keystone cops music. He then
proceeded to re-start Take A Pebble from the beginning and this time
there were no interruptions.

IIRC, they closed the show with Karn Evil ("come see the show",
etc.) and he ended it with the effects on the quad system going
full-tilt-boogie from corner to corner of the auditorium while the
synthesizer went up in smoke. (Or was that the drugs?)

A couple of years ago I dug out a bunch of old ELP stuff, and when
I put it on I was struck by how pretentious, overbearing and pompous
it was. In other words, it sounded as good as ever.


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) God, those were the days. (Or was that the
drugs?)

Mark Jerde wrote:

> Some Metallica and Rammstein music is to me non-boring. (Most music is.)
> Are you familiar with either of these bands? [snip]

I know what the Metallica logo looks like, sort of. Does that count? :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:16:22 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I've seen P.D.Q. Bach in concert (what a hoot) and still
>> adore Pink Floyd.
>
>A man of good taste then. What's your favorite album?

Very hard to choose, but probably a tie between "Obscured
by Clouds" and "Dark Side of the Moon".

Favorite songs: Free Four, Childhood's End, Fearless,
Wish You Were Here, Several Species of Small Furry Animals
Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With a Pict, Time,
Breathe, Shine On You Crazy Diamond, (their early stuff)

Of course, I liked Zappa and King Crimson, too.


>I guess I'd have to say mine is "Wish You Were Here," but it's not out front
>by much.

EXCELLENT song.


>> Much of today's music could be considered chamber pot music.
>> Rap makes me miss disco.
>
>Actually, there were two or three good disco songs.

No comment. <gag, kaff, choke>


>There might even be a
>good country song. Rap/hip hop is the musical equivalent of bird cage
>lining.

Ah, you betcha.


"Ka ka kaoum ba, wheeeee-eeeee.", brother.


(from SSOSAGTIACAGWAP)


P.S: Now people will have no doubt whatsoever about my sanity.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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why haven't I been 'saved'? * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:33:05 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a weirdo I
>am.

I've seen P.D.Q. Bach in concert (what a hoot) and still
adore Pink Floyd.

Much of today's music could be considered chamber pot music.
Rap makes me miss disco.


----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
====================================================

Swingman wrote:

> ... Hell of it is, judging from what I am hearing these days, I probably
> turned down a future Grammy engineer.

Yup, probably. One of the guys unloading my truck yesterday... Well, he's
one of *those* kids. I made some comment in good-natured jest, and his
reply was "Man, I ain't gonna be doin' this for long, man, I'm gonna go to
college and become a sound engineer and then I'm gonna be rich as fuck dude
so be nice to me."

Yeah, OK, sure... I don't even think he's being unrealistic, considering
the last time I bought a newly-released CD was seven years ago, and it
wasn't that good. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:05:56 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>You were calling the wrong places, mayhap. These people are local, and
>they're Chinese. They have really good prices. I think maybe they get
>good deals from the manufacturers because they speak Chinese fluently. :)

Half these places were the Chinese guys and they were still
overcharging. Their retail markup must be ridiculous, plus they were
trying to charge $75 an hour for labor.

>Not better, not worse. I can do a brake job. Take an afternoon and get
>greasy, rip open a few knuckles, make a big mess on my driveway, and not
>have any time left over to do anything fun.

If you know what you're doing, there's no mess and no ripped knuckles.
A socket set, a pair of long-nose pliers and brake parts and you're
done in an hour. No muss, no fuss.

Charlie Self wrote:

> I built both those older machines, so they were a lot cheaper. This time
> around, I let George do it.

Me too, incidentally. I used to build'em myself, spec every part, tweak,
diddle, and massage for the ultimate performance.

Now it's just not worth the headache of making sure this will work with
that. I got my last computer at a local place. It cost the same whether I
had them build it or not, so I let them do it.

Not sure what I'll do next time, since I don't want to pay the Microsoft
tax, and they don't like to build computers without operating systems. I
guess I'll worry about it later.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:45:33 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>solarman wrote:
>
>> We got "skills" man....SKILLS... I always loved the look of
>> someone who couldn't figure out where all the wires and hoses
>> go....and then we put them all back in a couple of minutes...
>
>I'll bet. That's one I've never had any real desire to do, even back when I
>was thinking of myself as a car guy.

That was my forte, too. I loved tearing into dashboards and creating
new wiring harnesses for crashed vehicles when we couldn't find a new
harness. Ever use 2 full rolls of electrical tape on a single project?
Of course, doing that on a full and dripping garbage truck was the one
time I really disliked that job. Their taillight harness got chewed
by a wheel and I had to rewire it when it was full and R I P E !

I have more fun behind a keyboard nowadays, though.

-----
= The wealth of reality, cannot be seen from your locality. =
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:24:06 -0500, ClydesdaleMTB
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>Brian Henderson wrote:
>>>Yeah, whatever you say, Chief. No fuss, no muss, sounds like you're a
>>>freaking master mechanic for sure. Feel free to come by and do my brakes
>>>any time you want. I guaran-damn-tee you that you won't get through a job
>>>on one of *my* rust buckets in an hour. It'll probably take you that long
>>>just to get a wheel off.
>
>Sounds like your vehicles suffer from both your ham fisted mechanical
>skills as well as years of pitiful neglect.

Actually, I didn't write that, that was a response to me. Watch the
attribs. ;)

>I do ALL my own mechanical work and there is not a single job on any of
>my cars I cannot do myself. From a simple brake job, all the way to
>dropping the transmission out or pulling the motor and stripping the
>block.... and these are OLD New England vehicles (salt+snow+age=rust).

Pretty much the same here, although there are some jobs I will hand
off to the professionals, simply because they've got better tools and
more time than I do. But I certainly can drop a transmission or pull
an engine or replace any component in the car if necessary and more
often than not, I can do it for 1/3 the price and time that a
professional shop can.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:25:44 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Now it's just not worth the headache of making sure this will work with
>that. I got my last computer at a local place. It cost the same whether I
>had them build it or not, so I let them do it.

Last time I did a complete upgrade, I went around and got some price
quotes for the system if they installed it. The prices I got ended up
being 2-3x as much as it cost me to just do it myself and that's not
even counting the money I saved using perfectly good components that I
already had. In the end, the labor costs far exceeded the hardware
costs and I'm about the cheapest labor I know. ;)

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brian Henderson wrote:
>
> > My point was that it would have cost me 2-3x more to buy an entirely
> > new system. One place quoted me $2200 for a computer that I built
> > myself for $500. A couple others couldn't even build the system I
> > wanted because they only used Intel chips and I wanted AMD.
>
> You were calling the wrong places, mayhap. These people are local, and
> they're Chinese. They have really good prices. I think maybe they get
> good deals from the manufacturers because they speak Chinese fluently. :)

IMHO, I can build a cheap computer for roughly what a cheap computer costs
at WallyWorld (e.g. - eMachines). When the components of the system
approach $1000 or so, is where there is a real advantage to
'building-yer-own'. I get most of my parts from newegg.com, they have
excellent service and decent prices.

The main reason I build my own systems (and those for my friends) is that I
know what kind of components are going into the system. I can pick and
choose my own quality power supply, heatsink, fans, etc. With a cheap
eMachine system, you're getting a cheap POS power supply that will likely
give you problems on your first upgrade or addition of a powered
peripheral... that's a headache I don't need.

Besides, I order the parts from newegg, they come to my door 4 days later
tax-free, and I can put the system together in the time it takes me to drive
to WallyWorld, deal w/ the hassle of the WallyWorld crowds, and drive back
home. ;-)

On 12 Dec 2003, Conan the Librarian spake unto rec.woodworking:

> A couple of years ago I dug out a bunch of old ELP stuff, and when
> I put it on I was struck by how pretentious, overbearing and pompous
> it was. In other words, it sounded as good as ever.

Amen to that. I lived in north Jersey during my high school years,
half an hour from New York City. Got to see lots of great shows at Madison
Square Garden and the Capitol Theater in Passaic - Jethro Tull, Allman
Bros., Frank Zappa & the Mothers, and speaking of pompous and pretentious,
Yes. Rick Wakeman wasn't quite as bombastic as Keith Emerson, but he
wasn't any slouch, either.

The most memorable - this was the late sixties to mid 70's, mind you,
so 'memorable' is relative - was a Pink Floyd concert on the 4th of July at
the Garden. It was the 'Animals' tour, we had seats on the floor about 12
rows from the stage, dead center. They played most of 'Wish You Were Here'
and some of 'Dark Side of the Moon' in addition to 'Animals.' At one point
some idiots in the nosebleed seats started tossing firecrackers off the
balconies (it being the 4th of July, after all) and Roger Waters got
seriously ticked off and interrupted the show, telling the malefactors to
"sod off." The crowd went wild, and the nonsense stopped.

Today's synthetic pop crap and rap "music" can't hold a candle, never
mind 20,000 Bic lighters, to those days.

Silvan wrote:

>> then, like I've said before, IMO, they stopped writing music in about
>> 1820 or so.
>
> More like the 1700s.
>
> Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a
> weirdo I am.

Some Metallica and Rammstein music is to me non-boring. (Most music is.)
Are you familiar with either of these bands? Neither is chained to the "E
cord, E minor cord, and bar" of so many other bands.

-- Mark

Sounds like the guy who called me for a job today. Fresh out of some 6 month
wonder engineer course, probably paid for with my tax dollars: "Duh .....
man! ......... uh, not .... sure ........ hey, but did I, uh ..... call you,
uh ... yesterday? I, uh .... can't remember ..... but,... hey, I am, uh ....
looking to go, uh to, you know, to work, in .... a , you know ...uh, .... a
recording studio. Who did ... you, uh say .... uh, this was?"

... Hell of it is, judging from what I am hearing these days, I probably
turned down a future Grammy engineer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03


"Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message

> First, I said unscrew the screws holding on the rim of the headlight.
> He removes the first screw ok, drops it on the ground, and moves the
> screwdriver to the next screw head.
>
> "Wait" I said "first practice putting back the screw you just removed."
>
> Talk about a blank look! "It disappeared!" he wailed.
>
> (Yes, I watched where it fell - and everything then went fine.)
>
> Was his problem "lack of skill"? I'd call it something else - more
> like paying attention, or keeping focused.
> --
> --henry schaffer
> [email protected]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:06:08 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Frank Shute wrote:
>
>> About the only modern band I listen to nowadays is Blur, most of the
>> rest is overpriced effluent. Record sales going down because of
>> piracy? I think not.

(Sorry, Frank, but I'm not with you on Blur having just listened
to the first 6 samples from their 'Best Of' CD.)


>Yeah, seriously. I don't even go to record stores anymore. What's the
>point? While there's some stuff there I wouldn't mind having, it's a
>matter of buying an entire CD for one mildly interesting song, and the
>cheap CDs are $25 now. I don't have money to piss away like that.

Go to www.cheap-cds.com and get all the old stuff for under ten bucks.
(Up until this year when they upped their shipping rates, their
handling rates, and the CD prices.) But they're still the best deal
in^H^Hout of town now that they get $3 more per title, the greedy
bastids.(either at Cheap or distributors)


---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Go to www.cheap-cds.com and get all the old stuff for under ten bucks.

Hrm... Under ten bucks sounds good.

> (Up until this year when they upped their shipping rates, their
> handling rates, and the CD prices.) But they're still the best deal
> in^H^Hout of town now that they get $3 more per title, the greedy
> bastids.(either at Cheap or distributors)

Oh.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:01:40 GMT, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:06:08 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>Frank Shute wrote:
>>
>>> About the only modern band I listen to nowadays is Blur, most of the
>>> rest is overpriced effluent. Record sales going down because of
>>> piracy? I think not.
>
> (Sorry, Frank, but I'm not with you on Blur having just listened
> to the first 6 samples from their 'Best Of' CD.)
>

Not to worry....they're an acquired taste! I was going to mention that
I quite liked `Great Gig in the Sky' but I thought better of it ;)

With regards the original question `Is Usenet Dying?' No. I've seen
other groups undergo troll attacks like this group recently
experienced; eventually the trolls get bored (like the one on this
group seems to have done) and some semblance of sanity returns.
Filters are essential though.

Whilst people keep on reading news the ISPs will support it. A full
feed sucks up a frightening amount of bandwidth/storage but
bandwidth/storage prices are falling and as far as I'm concerned I
wouldn't consider using an ISP that didn't offer netnews.

We're in a small minority of 'net users but you have to remember that
most of the techs at ISPs really need to read Usenet in order to do
their jobs, since that's the case it's then trivial to give your
customers access to your news server.

--

Frank

In article <[email protected]>,
solarman <[email protected]> wrote:
>We got "skills" man....SKILLS... I always loved the look of
>someone who couldn't figure out where all the wires and hoses
>go....and then we put them all back in a couple of minutes...
> ...

Some of the skills aren't so hard if you pay attention. A buddy of
mine needed to replace a burned out headlight and wanted to have a
garage do it because he wasn't sufficiently "skilled". I told him I'd
talk him through the job.

First, I said unscrew the screws holding on the rim of the headlight.
He removes the first screw ok, drops it on the ground, and moves the
screwdriver to the next screw head.

"Wait" I said "first practice putting back the screw you just removed."

Talk about a blank look! "It disappeared!" he wailed.

(Yes, I watched where it fell - and everything then went fine.)

Was his problem "lack of skill"? I'd call it something else - more
like paying attention, or keeping focused.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Very hard to choose, but probably a tie between "Obscured
> by Clouds" and "Dark Side of the Moon".

I like DSotM a good bit too, but it just doesn't do quite as much for me as
some of their other albums. Probably because I never have learned to love
"the Great Gag in the Sky" (That's a joke, Larry... Gag, as in horking,
ralphing, spewing... I hate that song. Which probably means you think
it's the best part of the whole album. :)

> Favorite songs: Free Four, Childhood's End, Fearless,
> Wish You Were Here, Several Species of Small Furry Animals
> Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With a Pict, Time,
> Breathe, Shine On You Crazy Diamond, (their early stuff)

Add "Julia Dream" and "That Fat Old Sun" to that list.

I like "The Wall" but not as much as most people do, and anything after that
is crap.

> Of course, I liked Zappa and King Crimson, too.

Titties and beer... What was that, "Baby Snakes?"

Barfing Pumpkin Records I think... Wow, it's been a long time. I'm not a
Zappa fan, but my best friend growing up adored him.

>>I guess I'd have to say mine is "Wish You Were Here," but it's not out
>>front by much.
>
> EXCELLENT song.

One of the few "real" songs I can play on the guitar too. I seldom try to
play other people's music, so most people think I "can't play anything"
until I break that one out.

SWMBO's bedtime song too. I've been playing that every night for her for
years now.

>>Actually, there were two or three good disco songs.
>
> No comment. <gag, kaff, choke>

Well, come on, I grew up listening to the BeeGees. Mom was a big fan. Some
of it rubbed off.

>>good country song. Rap/hip hop is the musical equivalent of bird cage
>>lining.
>
> Ah, you betcha.
>
> "Ka ka kaoum ba, wheeeee-eeeee.", brother.

I thought it was just "ba BUZZ BUZZ thump BUZZ thump mothaFUKKA" repeated
for ad nauseam, with brief bits of sampled James Brown stuck in for
variety.

(Now, James Brown makes me want to say it loud that I'm black and I'm proud
and get up offa that thang and I feel good. James Brown rocks, ba ba ba ba
bum, yeah. It's not because I'm a white guy that I don't like rap.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:33:05 -0500, Silvan
>

> I've seen P.D.Q. Bach in concert (what a hoot) and still
> adore Pink Floyd.

Hey, Betty Sue Bach was an awesome player ... you gotta be to play those
notes that fall off the staff into a pile on the page like that.


> Rap makes me miss disco.

An excellent wielding of the ultimate musical insult.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

Tim Douglass wrote:

> Since I have an air compressor for my nail guns I bought an impact
> wrench last Spring. That is far and away the best tool I've ever

Wouldn't do me any good since it would just wrench the studs off anyway. :)

> bought for mechanical work. I've added an air ratchet to it as well.
> Wish I'd had those 20 years ago when I was doing lots of work on cars.
> Back then buddy and I once changed the clutch on his hot rod in about
> 2 hours, which isn't too bad when you consider it required removing
> and reinstalling the engine.

If it was an old car 20 years ago, it was probably relatively easy to pull
the engine. People from the '60s back had it made. Nowadays it's hard to
even *find* the engine under all the wires and hoses.

Still, that's pretty impressive!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Frank Shute wrote:

> About the only modern band I listen to nowadays is Blur, most of the
> rest is overpriced effluent. Record sales going down because of
> piracy? I think not.

Yeah, seriously. I don't even go to record stores anymore. What's the
point? While there's some stuff there I wouldn't mind having, it's a
matter of buying an entire CD for one mildly interesting song, and the
cheap CDs are $25 now. I don't have money to piss away like that.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I think the last CD I bought was the collected works of Tom Leher (sp?) A
true nut case, God bless him!

Glen

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Frank Shute wrote:
>
> > About the only modern band I listen to nowadays is Blur, most of the
> > rest is overpriced effluent. Record sales going down because of
> > piracy? I think not.
>
> Yeah, seriously. I don't even go to record stores anymore. What's the
> point? While there's some stuff there I wouldn't mind having, it's a
> matter of buying an entire CD for one mildly interesting song, and the
> cheap CDs are $25 now. I don't have money to piss away like that.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:25:16 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Very hard to choose, but probably a tie between "Obscured
>> by Clouds" and "Dark Side of the Moon".
>
>I like DSotM a good bit too, but it just doesn't do quite as much for me as
>some of their other albums. Probably because I never have learned to love
>"the Great Gag in the Sky" (That's a joke, Larry... Gag, as in horking,
>ralphing, spewing... I hate that song. Which probably means you think
>it's the best part of the whole album. :)

You mean the black vocalists in the background with the
full range of voice routine? Gags me, too.


>Add "Julia Dream" and "That Fat Old Sun" to that list.

I don't recall either, FWIW.


>I like "The Wall" but not as much as most people do, and anything after that
>is crap.

Agreed. The Wall was fun, but...


>> Of course, I liked Zappa and King Crimson, too.
>
>Titties and beer... What was that, "Baby Snakes?"

The technical excellence that was his band on Hot Rats.
(which one of my sister's friends left after a party and
never came back to get.

"I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back."


>One of the few "real" songs I can play on the guitar too. I seldom try to
>play other people's music, so most people think I "can't play anything"
>until I break that one out.

I just picked up a violin and will be swinging cats shortly.
I've always loved Jean Luc Ponty and about any electric fiddle
or violin music. Wish me luck. (Oh, 'twas $26 on *b*y.)


>>>Actually, there were two or three good disco songs.
>>
>> No comment. <gag, kaff, choke>
>
>Well, come on, I grew up listening to the BeeGees. Mom was a big fan. Some
>of it rubbed off.

And some folks learn to beat women from their fathers.
Neither, in my definite opinion, is good, right, or fair.


>(Now, James Brown makes me want to say it loud that I'm black and I'm proud
>and get up offa that thang and I feel good. James Brown rocks, ba ba ba ba
>bum, yeah. It's not because I'm a white guy that I don't like rap.)

I'm not fond of screamers, no matter what race or gender, thanks.
But if you and he feels good, fine. Just don't make me listen to
any of it. (or Christmas music, R&B, disco, or rap)

(Oops, better add my violin practice to that. Got plugs & muffs?)

--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites

Usenet has been dying for 20 years. I expect it will continue to die
for the next 20 years.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:37:39 GMT, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:25:16 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> Very hard to choose, but probably a tie between "Obscured
>>> by Clouds" and "Dark Side of the Moon".
>>
>>I like DSotM a good bit too, but it just doesn't do quite as much for me as
>>some of their other albums. Probably because I never have learned to love
>>"the Great Gag in the Sky" (That's a joke, Larry... Gag, as in horking,
>>ralphing, spewing... I hate that song. Which probably means you think
>>it's the best part of the whole album. :)
>
> You mean the black vocalists in the background with the
> full range of voice routine? Gags me, too.

The "black vocalist" was a white girl: Clare Torry. Yes, I'm another
Floyd anorak ;) Saw them at Knebworth circa 1975.

About the only modern band I listen to nowadays is Blur, most of the
rest is overpriced effluent. Record sales going down because of
piracy? I think not.

<snip>

--

Frank

Tom Watson wrote:

>>Well, except for Pink Floyd.
>
> OBWW: "Careful with that axe, Eugene."

Yeah man. :)

(I said that to my boy a lot when I was teaching him how to use one.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:33:23 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This wasn't an upgrade. Since they finally changed the case spec, I had to
>buy a new box, and all new components. I priced parts, determined that
>these people literally only cost a few dollars more (like $15-20) than
>buying parts mail order (after considering shipping vs. sales tax). It
>cost essentially nothing to have them put it all together, so I let them
>build the damn thing and that was that.

My point was that it would have cost me 2-3x more to buy an entirely
new system. One place quoted me $2200 for a computer that I built
myself for $500. A couple others couldn't even build the system I
wanted because they only used Intel chips and I wanted AMD.

>I've put together enough computers in my day that I take no joy in it
>anymore. Sort of like working on my car. Been there, done that, and if I
>could afford to pay a mechanic, I'd never touch the thing again. I'm
>definitely not a wrench jockey, and I'm not a computer hardware guy either.

I do most of my own work. I did my wife's rear brakes a week ago or
so for $40, which included pads and having both rotors resurfaced. It
took me about an hour. If I took it to the shop, they'd charge me
$200 and take 2 days.

Tell me which is better?

Brian Henderson writes:

>I do most of my own work. I did my wife's rear brakes a week ago or
>so for $40, which included pads and having both rotors resurfaced. It
>took me about an hour. If I took it to the shop, they'd charge me
>$200 and take 2 days.

Quit doing auto work when I had to reshoe the front brakes on a '67 Plymouth in
92 deg. weather. But we found one of the good points of WV: got the front
brakes on my wife's Dodge Stratus done, including turned rotors, for $78 not
long ago.

Charlie Self

"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:49:27 -0600, Iraxl Enb <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:

>> More like the 1700s.
>>
>> Well, except for Pink Floyd. J. S. Bach and Pink Floyd. What a weirdo I
>> am.
>
>Floyd and ELP. And nothing else matters I guess...

I saw Keith Emerson spinning and playing 8' off the stage
wilst strapped to a piano bench and an electric grand piano
(or was that the MOOG?) at the Cal Jam. THE Cal Jam, not some
second string later concert. We were close enough to center
of the infield that the QUAD sound system worked.
</dating myself>


--------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent in my $5, so * http://www.diversify.com/stees.html
why haven't I been 'saved'? * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

Brian Henderson wrote:

> Last time I did a complete upgrade, I went around and got some price
> quotes for the system if they installed it. The prices I got ended up
> being 2-3x as much as it cost me to just do it myself and that's not
> even counting the money I saved using perfectly good components that I
> already had. In the end, the labor costs far exceeded the hardware
> costs and I'm about the cheapest labor I know. ;)

This wasn't an upgrade. Since they finally changed the case spec, I had to
buy a new box, and all new components. I priced parts, determined that
these people literally only cost a few dollars more (like $15-20) than
buying parts mail order (after considering shipping vs. sales tax). It
cost essentially nothing to have them put it all together, so I let them
build the damn thing and that was that.

I've put together enough computers in my day that I take no joy in it
anymore. Sort of like working on my car. Been there, done that, and if I
could afford to pay a mechanic, I'd never touch the thing again. I'm
definitely not a wrench jockey, and I'm not a computer hardware guy either.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/