I'm a rank newbie. I need some wood glue. If I had to buy one glue, what
should it be? If there are many different applications, and different glues
are needed to do different things, which others should I buy, and can you
provide a brief description of what each does?
I am a bit overwhelmed after going to buy some glue today, a simple task, I
thought. There are a lot of different types. But I know that basically,
there is probably one main type that is used for lots of things, one that is
used for many things, and one that is used only occasionally.
In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
age. Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? Cabinet with light
bulb? Protect from freezing? Keep in small ice chest? etc ?
I just want to go buy some glue for building some birdhouses, the occasional
wood repair around the house, and basic woodworking tasks, nothing really
complicated or high grade. Just want some of what I will be using.
And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
Thanks.
Steve
On Jan 7, 8:17=A0pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a rank newbie. =A0I need some wood glue. =A0If I had to buy one glue,=
what
> should it be? =A0If there are many different applications, and different =
glues
> are needed to do different things, which others should I buy, and can you
> provide a brief description of what each does?
>
> I am a bit overwhelmed after going to buy some glue today, a simple task,=
I
> thought. =A0There are a lot of different types. =A0 But I know that basic=
ally,
> there is probably one main type that is used for lots of things, one that=
is
> used for many things, and one that is used only occasionally.
>
> In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
> age. =A0Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? =A0Cabinet with l=
ight
> bulb? =A0Protect from freezing? =A0Keep in small ice chest? =A0etc ?
>
> I just want to go buy some glue for building some birdhouses, the occasio=
nal
> wood repair around the house, and basic woodworking tasks, nothing really
> complicated or high grade. =A0Just want some of what I will be using.
>
> And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve
Ditto previous input on Titebond products. Titebond II works for most
woodworking projects. You will need III for outdoor projects.
Gorilla make a good outdoor glue too but it is messy and expensive,
and for the applications you suggest it might be overkill.
RonB
On Jan 8, 5:31=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Believe it or not, plain old regular white Elmers school glue works
> just fine as a wood glue. =A0I recall Sam Maloof using it for his
> rocking chairs. =A0The various Titebond brand glues probably work better
> for outside applications and may even be better for inside too. =A0But
> white school glue holds wood together very well. =A0So if you're at the
> grocery store and need glue, buy the white school glue. =A0If you're at
> Home Depot, then get the Titebond brand.
School glue is formulated to wash out of clothes, so
squeezeout should be easier to clean up.
On 01/07/2012 07:17 PM, Steve B wrote:
> I'm a rank newbie. I need some wood glue. If I had to buy one glue, what
> should it be? If there are many different applications, and different glues
> are needed to do different things, which others should I buy, and can you
> provide a brief description of what each does?
>
> I am a bit overwhelmed after going to buy some glue today, a simple task, I
> thought. There are a lot of different types. But I know that basically,
> there is probably one main type that is used for lots of things, one that is
> used for many things, and one that is used only occasionally.
>
> In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
> age. Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? Cabinet with light
> bulb? Protect from freezing? Keep in small ice chest? etc ?
>
> I just want to go buy some glue for building some birdhouses, the occasional
> wood repair around the house, and basic woodworking tasks, nothing really
> complicated or high grade. Just want some of what I will be using.
>
> And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve
>
>
The smallest bottle of TightBond II or if most of your projects will be
out in the (wet) weather, Tightbond III.
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
On 01/09/2012 01:37 AM, Morgans wrote:
> "Father Haskell" wrote
> Qualities that make it the favorite of instrument
> builders. A neck / fingerboard joint glued with hot hide
> glue isn't going to slowly bow and take a set from string
> tension over the guitar's lifetime. A violin body glued
> up with hide glue can be taken apart with a hot knife
> and reassembled without damage despite the instrument
> being hundreds of years old.
> *********************************
>
> Seems as though you have some interest/experience in instrument making.
>
> Got any favorite web sites, or videos that would help learning how to
> make a guitar?
>
> Seems as though I have been tapped to help a student make one for a
> senior project.
>
> -- Jim in NC
http://www.grizzly.com/products/featured/luthier_store.aspx
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
"Steve B" wrote:
> I'm a rank newbie. I need some wood glue. If I had to buy one
> glue, what should it be?
------------------------------
TiteBond II.
I use TB II as a general purpose woodworking glue.
After that it is laminating epoxy and microballoons for the tough jobs
TB II can't do.
In any case trying to glue below 60F is a total PITA.
Have fun.
Lew
On Jan 7, 10:42=A0pm, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 18:17:55 -0800, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I'm a rank newbie. =A0I need some wood glue. =A0If I had to buy one glue=
, what
> >should it be?
>
> >And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
> For outside work like your birdhouses, Titebond III is best.
> Otherwise, whatever brand of wood glue the local store sells; they are
> all sufficient for 99% of what you'll do. =A0It is good for about a
> year, maybe two. =A0Keep it from freezing.
How's he going to keep the glue on the birdhouses from freezing?
Little tiny propane heaters? ;-)
Believe it or not, plain old regular white Elmers school glue works
just fine as a wood glue. I recall Sam Maloof using it for his
rocking chairs. The various Titebond brand glues probably work better
for outside applications and may even be better for inside too. But
white school glue holds wood together very well. So if you're at the
grocery store and need glue, buy the white school glue. If you're at
Home Depot, then get the Titebond brand.
On Jan 7, 8:17=A0pm, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a rank newbie. =A0I need some wood glue. =A0If I had to buy one glue,=
what
> should it be? =A0If there are many different applications, and different =
glues
> are needed to do different things, which others should I buy, and can you
> provide a brief description of what each does?
>
> I am a bit overwhelmed after going to buy some glue today, a simple task,=
I
> thought. =A0There are a lot of different types. =A0 But I know that basic=
ally,
> there is probably one main type that is used for lots of things, one that=
is
> used for many things, and one that is used only occasionally.
>
> In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
> age. =A0Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? =A0Cabinet with l=
ight
> bulb? =A0Protect from freezing? =A0Keep in small ice chest? =A0etc ?
>
> I just want to go buy some glue for building some birdhouses, the occasio=
nal
> wood repair around the house, and basic woodworking tasks, nothing really
> complicated or high grade. =A0Just want some of what I will be using.
>
> And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/8/2012 11:12 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 1/8/2012 11:02 PM, Richard wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> I've used a lot of it and found this...
>>>
>>> Tight joints don't foam up and are quite strong.
>>
>> "It" being polyurethane glues for context.
>> ...
>>
>> I only added the comment to the OP who expressed a lack of experience
>> and knowledge when another respondent mention the foaming as gap-filling
>> that it ain't worth a damn for the purpose.
>>
>> Agreed, in a tight joint it doesn't foam within the joint but any
>> squeeze-out certainly will and is a pita.
>>
>> Every comparative test I've seen shows it's weaker than yellow PVA (not
>> that it's not still probably as strong or stronger than the wood along
>> grain but still, test results are test results... :) )
>>
>> Frankly, I retain the opinion it's of no real value unless one really,
>> really must have the waterproof result or some other specific reason for
>> it. I detest using the stuff and it's very expensive, comparatively.
>>
>> --
>
> Oh my.
> Yes, "it" being correctly stated as you said.
> Sorry about that.
>
> Actually there is a very good use for this stuff and it's marvelous
> foaming powers! It turns out to be a cheap way to fix wet core
> problems in cored boat decks. Doing a traditional repair involves
> removing the wet core material (plywood or balsa usually) and reinstalling
> new. Then replacing the deck skin.
>
> That's a major expense (really major!) and beyond any kind of reasonable
> cost for many old boats.
>
> But injecting polyurethane glue into the cavity has proven to be a quick,
> cheap, and actually very sound repair technique.
>
> Moisture in the old core is used by the glue to insure a good foaming
> reaction. And the reaction absorbs that moisture and seals off any
> remaining areas that may still be overly damp. Sealing off the oxygen
> will stop the rot.
>
> Basically this is replacing the rotted away wood core with poured-in-place
> foam core.
>
> Time will tell how well it stands the test of time. :)
Please pardon my latecoming to this argument ......... err .........
discussion ......... err .......... thread. I have ignored it since it
turned from a request for information to an arm wrestling match between
greater adversaries than myself.
As I stated, I am a newbie. But, Richard, I find your statement about using
it for wood repairs to be fascinating. I shall be replacing the floor
carpet in my boat soon, and I anticipated some rot and repairs once the
underlying plywood is exposed.
I have deleted the wrestling match so far, because of having no knowledge to
contribute, so I did lose what it was that you were wrestling about. What
product is that?
It certainly sounds like something I could use for some of my purposes.
You can learn a lot by observing. - Yogi Berra - I can't arm wrestle any
more, but I have gotten this delicious helpful tidbit by just watching. I
guess I'm on Chapter 2 of Glue now, eh?
Thanks.
Steve
On 1/8/2012 2:16 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/8/2012 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> ...
>
>> Polyurethane glues are moisture activated, moisture resistant and have
>> some
>> gap-filling abilities (the glue expands into a foam when activated).
> ...
>
> (To OP)
>
> But, the operative word there is "foam". The gap is full of air bubbles
> which sucks big time for finishing. Do _NOT_ think one can make up for
> ill-fitting joints this way.
>
> And, while the waterproof nature may have some benefit in some specific
> applications, that it doesn't clean up w/ water, is very slow setting
> and is overall just a pita mess doesn't leave much to recommend it for
> anything but where it is really, really needed or a regular wood glue
> won't work for some other reason. (Not to mention it doesn't have the
> strength of a good yellow PVA in tests.)
>
> If it weren't for the catchy name and the add campaign, they would
> hardly be missed by woodworkers.
>
> --
If you are talking about Gorilla glue, certainly you are remarking about
the polyurethane glue that they manufacture. Their white wood glue OTOH
is great glue and dries clear.
On 1/8/2012 7:14 AM, RonB wrote:
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Ditto previous input on Titebond products. Titebond II works for most
> woodworking projects. You will need III for outdoor projects.
> Gorilla make a good outdoor glue too but it is messy and expensive,
> and for the applications you suggest it might be overkill.
>
> RonB
Gorilla Polyurethane is messy. Gorilla regular white wood glue is no
more messy than TB, TB II or TB III. Keep in mind that Titebond also
makes the messy polyurethane glue.
On 1/8/2012 4:48 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/8/2012 4:45 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> If you are talking about Gorilla glue, certainly you are remarking about
>> the polyurethane glue that they manufacture. Their white wood glue OTOH
>> is great glue and dries clear.
>
> Yes, I'm speaking of the polyurethanes in general and the monkey brand
> in particular.
>
> I've not used their wood glue; it is indeed a totally different product
> and is likely as suitable as any other.
>
> --
>
I've used a lot of it and found this...
Tight joints don't foam up and are quite strong.
And sloppy joints will foam and are very weak.
I see it as a workmanship question, not a fault of the glue.
On the other hand, yes, it does seem to have a strong desire to crawl
all the way across the bench to get on something you don't want it on.
On Jan 8, 7:54=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:08:08 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Hide glues are made from animal products. =A0Popular with restorers due=
to
> > historic use and ease of repair (heat will disrupt the bond). Used for
> > veneering and furniture assembly (e.g chair legs) historically. =A0Used
> > warm, it requires a glue pot. =A0 The odor may be offensive to some.
>
> Having just used hide glue in a glue pot for a veneering project, I can
> testify that there is little or no odor unless you overheat it. =A0Past
> 150F it smells awful. =A0My electric glue pot keeps it at 140-145.
>
> However, it is messy. =A0The liquid version (no heating required) is even
> messier.
Squeezeout cleans up with rag and some hot water. TB
requires first going onto rec.woodworking and getting 43
different answers, and even then, it's a pain.
> But the stuff is reversible, doesn't creep under tension, doesn't block
> stains like modern glues,
Qualities that make it the favorite of instrument
builders. A neck / fingerboard joint glued with hot hide
glue isn't going to slowly bow and take a set from string
tension over the guitar's lifetime. A violin body glued
up with hide glue can be taken apart with a hot knife
and reassembled without damage despite the instrument
being hundreds of years old.
> and the liquid stuff gives a long open time.
If it's fresh.
> I would only use the hot stuff for veneering, and the liquid where long
> open time and/or the other attributes mentioned above are needed. =A0For
> most stuff it's Titebond II or III.
Type I is fine for anything that stays indoors.
You can substitute Knox gelatine for hot hide glue. 350
gram strength, *very* strong. Add one packet to 4 ounces
water, microwave until 150 degrees F.
On Jan 7, 8:06=A0pm, DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 7, 10:42=A0pm, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 18:17:55 -0800, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >I'm a rank newbie. =A0I need some wood glue. =A0If I had to buy one gl=
ue, what
> > >should it be?
>
> > >And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
> > For outside work like your birdhouses, Titebond III is best.
> > Otherwise, whatever brand of wood glue the local store sells; they are
> > all sufficient for 99% of what you'll do. =A0It is good for about a
> > year, maybe two. =A0Keep it from freezing.
>
> How's he going to keep the glue on the birdhouses from freezing?
> Little tiny propane heaters? =A0;-)
Cute. Don't let the bottle of unused glue freeze.
On Jan 9, 3:37=A0am, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" =A0wrote
> Qualities that make it the favorite of instrument
> builders. =A0A neck / fingerboard joint glued with hot hide
> glue isn't going to slowly bow and take a set from string
> tension over the guitar's lifetime. =A0A violin body glued
> up with hide glue can be taken apart with a hot knife
> and reassembled without damage despite the instrument
> being hundreds of years old.
> *********************************
>
> Seems as though you have some interest/experience in instrument making.
>
> Got any favorite web sites, or videos that would help learning how to mak=
e a
> guitar?
Mostly older texts, Irv Sloane, Hideo Kamimoto.
Stewmac's site has a lot of useful tips, courtesy of
Dan Erlewine:
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo.html
Frank Ford's page on using Knox gelatin as hide glue:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/TipsTricks/KitchenGlue/kitchenglue.=
html
Who knew you could use a tasty dessert as a glue?
Surprisingly strong. I tested Frank's recipe with a couple
of 1 x 1" poplar blocks. There's no way you can pull them
apart with anything short of the Cygnus X-1 black hole.
>
> Seems as though I have been tapped to help a student make one for a senio=
r
> project.
>
> -- Jim in NC
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 18:17:55 -0800, "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm a rank newbie. I need some wood glue. If I had to buy one glue, what
>should it be?
>
>And how big a jar do I need to get without wasting it before I use it?
>
For outside work like your birdhouses, Titebond III is best.
Otherwise, whatever brand of wood glue the local store sells; they are
all sufficient for 99% of what you'll do. It is good for about a
year, maybe two. Keep it from freezing.
On 1/8/2012 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
> Polyurethane glues are moisture activated, moisture resistant and have some
> gap-filling abilities (the glue expands into a foam when activated).
...
(To OP)
But, the operative word there is "foam". The gap is full of air bubbles
which sucks big time for finishing. Do _NOT_ think one can make up for
ill-fitting joints this way.
And, while the waterproof nature may have some benefit in some specific
applications, that it doesn't clean up w/ water, is very slow setting
and is overall just a pita mess doesn't leave much to recommend it for
anything but where it is really, really needed or a regular wood glue
won't work for some other reason. (Not to mention it doesn't have the
strength of a good yellow PVA in tests.)
If it weren't for the catchy name and the add campaign, they would
hardly be missed by woodworkers.
--
On 1/8/2012 4:45 PM, Leon wrote:
...
> If you are talking about Gorilla glue, certainly you are remarking about
> the polyurethane glue that they manufacture. Their white wood glue OTOH
> is great glue and dries clear.
Yes, I'm speaking of the polyurethanes in general and the monkey brand
in particular.
I've not used their wood glue; it is indeed a totally different product
and is likely as suitable as any other.
--
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:08:08 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Hide glues are made from animal products. Popular with restorers due to
> historic use and ease of repair (heat will disrupt the bond). Used for
> veneering and furniture assembly (e.g chair legs) historically. Used
> warm, it requires a glue pot. The odor may be offensive to some.
Having just used hide glue in a glue pot for a veneering project, I can
testify that there is little or no odor unless you overheat it. Past
150F it smells awful. My electric glue pot keeps it at 140-145.
However, it is messy. The liquid version (no heating required) is even
messier.
But the stuff is reversible, doesn't creep under tension, doesn't block
stains like modern glues, and the liquid stuff gives a long open time.
I would only use the hot stuff for veneering, and the liquid where long
open time and/or the other attributes mentioned above are needed. For
most stuff it's Titebond II or III.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 1/8/2012 11:02 PM, Richard wrote:
...
> I've used a lot of it and found this...
>
> Tight joints don't foam up and are quite strong.
"It" being polyurethane glues for context.
...
I only added the comment to the OP who expressed a lack of experience
and knowledge when another respondent mention the foaming as gap-filling
that it ain't worth a damn for the purpose.
Agreed, in a tight joint it doesn't foam within the joint but any
squeeze-out certainly will and is a pita.
Every comparative test I've seen shows it's weaker than yellow PVA (not
that it's not still probably as strong or stronger than the wood along
grain but still, test results are test results... :) )
Frankly, I retain the opinion it's of no real value unless one really,
really must have the waterproof result or some other specific reason for
it. I detest using the stuff and it's very expensive, comparatively.
--
"Father Haskell" wrote
Qualities that make it the favorite of instrument
builders. A neck / fingerboard joint glued with hot hide
glue isn't going to slowly bow and take a set from string
tension over the guitar's lifetime. A violin body glued
up with hide glue can be taken apart with a hot knife
and reassembled without damage despite the instrument
being hundreds of years old.
*********************************
Seems as though you have some interest/experience in instrument making.
Got any favorite web sites, or videos that would help learning how to make a
guitar?
Seems as though I have been tapped to help a student make one for a senior
project.
-- Jim in NC
On 1/9/2012 10:12 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 1/8/2012 11:12 PM, dpb wrote:
...
>> "It" being polyurethane glues for context.
...
>> Frankly, I retain the opinion it's of no real value unless one really,
>> really must have the waterproof result or some other specific reason for
>> it. I detest using the stuff and it's very expensive, comparatively.
...
> Actually there is a very good use for this stuff and it's marvelous
> foaming powers! It turns out to be a cheap way to fix wet core
> problems in cored boat decks....
Indeed, that would qualify as a specific reason...
--
On 1/8/2012 11:12 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> Frankly, I retain the opinion it's of no real value unless one really,
> really must have the waterproof result or some other specific reason for
> it. I detest using the stuff and it's very expensive, comparatively.
...
I'll add the qualifier to the above that "it's of no real value for the
routine cabinet or furniture or casual woodworker unless..."
--
On 1/8/2012 11:12 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/8/2012 11:02 PM, Richard wrote:
> ...
>
>> I've used a lot of it and found this...
>>
>> Tight joints don't foam up and are quite strong.
>
> "It" being polyurethane glues for context.
> ...
>
> I only added the comment to the OP who expressed a lack of experience
> and knowledge when another respondent mention the foaming as gap-filling
> that it ain't worth a damn for the purpose.
>
> Agreed, in a tight joint it doesn't foam within the joint but any
> squeeze-out certainly will and is a pita.
>
> Every comparative test I've seen shows it's weaker than yellow PVA (not
> that it's not still probably as strong or stronger than the wood along
> grain but still, test results are test results... :) )
>
> Frankly, I retain the opinion it's of no real value unless one really,
> really must have the waterproof result or some other specific reason for
> it. I detest using the stuff and it's very expensive, comparatively.
>
> --
Oh my.
Yes, "it" being correctly stated as you said.
Sorry about that.
Actually there is a very good use for this stuff and it's marvelous
foaming powers! It turns out to be a cheap way to fix wet core
problems in cored boat decks. Doing a traditional repair involves
removing the wet core material (plywood or balsa usually) and
reinstalling new. Then replacing the deck skin.
That's a major expense (really major!) and beyond any kind of reasonable
cost for many old boats.
But injecting polyurethane glue into the cavity has proven to be a
quick, cheap, and actually very sound repair technique.
Moisture in the old core is used by the glue to insure a good foaming
reaction. And the reaction absorbs that moisture and seals off any
remaining areas that may still be overly damp. Sealing off the oxygen
will stop the rot.
Basically this is replacing the rotted away wood core with
poured-in-place foam core.
Time will tell how well it stands the test of time. :)
On 1/7/2012 8:17 PM, Steve B wrote:
>
> In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
> age. Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? Cabinet with light
> bulb? Protect from freezing? Keep in small ice chest? etc ?
>
When your white or yellow wood glue gets thick try banging the bottle
against a solid object ir the palm of your hand a few times. It is not
unusual for the glue to thicken when it just sits. If the glue is still
good it will re liquify almost immediately when you jar the container.
"Steve B" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>I am a bit overwhelmed after going to buy some glue today, a simple task, I
>thought. There are a lot of different types. But I know that basically,
>there is probably one main type that is used for lots of things, one that is
>used for many things, and one that is used only occasionally.
Simple white and yellow PVA glues will work for 90% of woodworking purposes.
Some PVA glues are formulated to be more resistant to moisture, this generally
matters for constant or near-constant exposure. Some have colorants added to
help hide glue lines in darker hardwoods.
Polyurethane glues are moisture activated, moisture resistant and have some
gap-filling abilities (the glue expands into a foam when activated).
Hide glues are made from animal products. Popular with restorers due
to historic use and ease of repair (heat will disrupt the bond). Used for
veneering and furniture assembly (e.g chair legs) historically. Used warm,
it requires a glue pot. The odor may be offensive to some.
Contact cement is used to adhere veneer (or e.g. formica) to a stable substrate.
CA (cyanoacrylate) glues (aka superglue) bond dissimilar materials but
work with wood. Chemical accellerants and retardants are available to adjust
bonding time.
>
>In the past, I have thrown away glue from it getting thick, probably from
>age. Are there any storage secrets for keeping glue? Cabinet with light
>bulb? Protect from freezing? Keep in small ice chest? etc ?
Cool, dark place. Don't let it freeze. Storage conditions and lifetime are
generally noted on container.
scott