table saw push stick or push block or ???

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 8/1/2015 10:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>>>
>>> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>>>
>>> which style do you reach for
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/
>> EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682
>
> Mine is similar to that, except the handle goes the other way.
> I don't like the designs that put the hand in front of the
> notch pushing the board, because I think they can rotate
> around the front and lift the notch. I think the hand needs
> to be behind and above the notch so the line of force goes
> thru the notch into the board.

And mine is similar to Swingmans except mine is shorter and the handle
is more on top.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/20208704605/in/dateposted-public/

I have been using this design for about 16 years and this one is
probably that old. I have a few as back ups. I made it out of 1/2"
Baltic birch plywood so it does not weaken much as more of it gets cut
away, in width. It is getting close to retirement.

An important aspect to this design is that I can apply quite a bit of
pressure down on the board to prevent what you have described, the notch
lifting. More importantly, that downward force helps to prevent the
board/work from lifting as it passes the back side of the blade.

Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out of
me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to keep the
work from being lifted and thrown back at you.

http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 8/1/2015 10:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>>>
>>> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>>>
>>> which style do you reach for
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/
>> EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682
>
> Mine is similar to that, except the handle goes the other way.
> I don't like the designs that put the hand in front of the
> notch pushing the board, because I think they can rotate
> around the front and lift the notch. I think the hand needs
> to be behind and above the notch so the line of force goes
> thru the notch into the board.

And mine is similar to Swingmans except mine is shorter and the handle
is more on top.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/20208704605/in/dateposted-public/

I have been using this design for about 16 years and this one is
probably that old. I have a few as back ups. I made it out of 1/2"
Baltic birch plywood so it does not weaken much as more of it gets cut
away, in width. It is getting close to retirement.

An important aspect to this design is that I can apply quite a bit of
pressure down on the board to prevent what you have described, the notch
lifting. More importantly, that downward force helps to prevent the
board/work from lifting as it passes the back side of the blade.

Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out of
me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to keep the
work from being lifted and thrown back at you.

http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> no doubt this topic comes up once in a while
>
> here is a variety
> http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-
> plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
>
> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
> which style do you reach for
>

I've got two: One is simply a short 2x4 with a little tang on the back
(simple and fast to make) and the other is a longish piece of plywood
with a handle shaped like a handsaw handle.

I usually grab the 2x4 for thin cuts (I consider it extremely
sacrificial) and the plywood for thicker cuts.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in news:mpivt2$3hi$1
@dont-email.me:

> On 01 Aug 2015 16:47:34 GMT
> Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> I've got two: One is simply a short 2x4 with a little tang on the
>> back (simple and fast to make) and the other is a longish piece of
>> plywood with a handle shaped like a handsaw handle.
>>
>> I usually grab the 2x4 for thin cuts (I consider it extremely
>> sacrificial) and the plywood for thicker cuts.
>
> i will try that
> but will glue a piece of sandpaper on the bottom just for better grip

The tang actually does the pushing. The length of the push stick allows
me to put pressure away from the edge of the board to prevent lifting.
No need for sandpaper.

If I need to hold the material against the fence at the same time I'm
pushing through the blade, I usually use the rounded end of one push
stick as a feather board and push with the other. I'm only using enough
pressure to keep the material from wandering, not pushing it tight like
you can with a feather board.

Puckdroper

--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
> available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make many
> cuts just so much more _convenient_.
>

Or you can *gasp* buy one. The one I bought is stackable, so I can use it
as either 2 featherboards or one tall one. Nice for resawing.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:

*snip*
>
> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out of
> me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to keep the
> work from being lifted and thrown back at you.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>

The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was caused
by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same concept...

A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy one. (I'd
avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for table saw use.)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

krw <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>>http://wmo.asu.edu/world-greatest-sixty-minute-one-hour-rainfallOn
>>Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use
>>one since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock
>>upwards. They are slightly less dangerous than using your hand.
>
> The idea is to keep your fingers out of the rotating parts. They
> aren't intended to fix kick-back.

They aren't intended to encourage kick-back, either, but that's what
those dangerous birdsmouth push sticks do. If you put downward pressure
on the very edge of something like a board, the board will tend to lift
at the opposite end.

Considering how easy it is to make a push device that fixes that problem,
there's no reason to ever use the birdsmouth style push stick. Ever.

>>Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
>>through the blade.
>>Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.
>
> I often use featherboards and was looking at these at Woodcraft,
> yesterday.
>
> http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04301.htm

The best saw to use the birdsmouth push sticks on is the compound miter
saw. Hold it square against the fence, and make a cut. Now you've got a
scrap to use to double check the squareness of the fence.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 8/2/2015 9:58 PM, krw wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls
>>> the stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?
>>
>> Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.
>>
>
> Not if you put the handle back far enough.
>

How far back would the handle have to be? By the time it's back far enough
to push the wood completely through the saw, wouldn't it tend to be rather
cumbersome to handle?

If you make the handle tall, then the hand can safely pass over the
spinning parts to complete the cut. The cut isn't complete until the wood
has passed by the blade completely, at least on the fence side.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was
> caused by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same
> concept...
>
> A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy one.
> (I'd avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for table saw
> use.)
>
> Puckdropper

I decided to quantitize my assertation that a safer push stick is super
easy to build... It took me two pieces of wood, two screws, and about 6
minutes to build a quick and dirty push stick that's much better than the
birdsmouth style.

Check A.B.P.W. for some rough and awful woodworking.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 08/04/2015 12:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/4/15 3:50 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
>> On 08/01/2015 06:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use one
>>> since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.
>>
>> What, you don't remember the infamous Dead Bunny Push Stick:
>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92112754848710677/
>>
>
> Am I missing an inside joke here?
> That is not a push stick, that is a shoe-style push block.
> Those are much, much safer than push sticks.

Not an inside joke - just a historical reference to the wreck waaaay
back in the day. I guess I don't make the distinction between a push
stick and a push block in much the same way that most people call facial
tissue "Kleenix". Much to the Kleenix company lawyers chagrin and their
advertising departments joy...

...Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

On 8/2/2015 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> Yes they do, BUT not so well if the magnets happen to fall directly over
> the miter slot, it is surprising how many times that happens to me.

Yep, about 95% of the time with the larger, heavy duty ones.

Most of the time I end up using the smaller ones, backed up by the
larger ones if necessary.

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On 8/2/2015 10:29 AM, krw wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 13:39:54 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
>>>> available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make
>>>> many cuts just so much more _convenient_.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or you can *gasp* buy one. The one I bought is stackable, so I can
>>> use it as either 2 featherboards or one tall one. Nice for resawing.
>>
>> Best idea is to do both. You can buy featherboards that will
>> lock into the miter gauge slots on the tablesaw, which makes
>> them very convenient to use; and make several more to clamp
>> to the router table or a fence or other places where there
>> isn't a slot.
>
> The magnetic featherboards work really well (on cast iron tops,
> obviously), too.

Yes they do, BUT not so well if the magnets happen to fall directly over
the miter slot, it is surprising how many times that happens to me.
Additionally the magnetic one that I use will not let a Gripper pass if
the Gripper is wider than the stock being cut and the stock is 3/4"
thick. I have to go to my wooden feather board which fits in the slot
and is less than 3/4" thick.



>>
>> Certainly once you've used them you realize how simple and
>> effective they are for controlling the work.
>
> I use featherboards on the fence, too, but have to be careful so they
> don't lift the fence.
>

On 8/2/2015 8:58 PM, krw wrote:

> Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.

Yep that's true...

As is the case with almost all jigs (tenon, spline, taper, et al) used
for various operations on the table saw that have been in use for a
hundred years or more.

However, and having long respected your expertise and not arguing with
your valid point, something else for the newer folks here to consider
when deciding which is the best solution for them.

Since it is impossible to eliminate all risk, the idea is to _minimize
risk_ with a design that:

~ Gets the hand a relatively safe distance away/above the blade.

~ At the same time uses the _minimum_ amount of force/effort to maintain
adequate downward pressure AND pushing force.

IME, the further the hand exerting force is moved back toward the
operator, and away from the workpiece being pushed, the more
force/effort required from that hand to provide _downward_ force on the
workpiece.

Using more force/effort than necessary on a workpiece being pushed in
the direction of the blade arguably increases the chance of being
injured during a kickback or bind.

Some folks, particularly those with very strong wrists, may not have a
problem with this.

The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both planes
is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test of time for me
with regard to safe operation ... so far.

YMMV ...

Table saw is a dangerous tool, best way to never get hurt by one is to
not use one .... and not even a SawStop can protect you from all danger.

Have the scars of 13 stitches in a thumb from a table saw ... damned
thing wasn't even plugged in, and didn't have a blade installed.

ER still classified as a "table saw accident". :(

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On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Mine is similar to that, except the handle goes the other way.
> I don't like the designs that put the hand in front of the
> notch pushing the board, because I think they can rotate
> around the front and lift the notch. I think the hand needs
> to be behind and above the notch so the line of force goes
> thru the notch into the board.

Over 60 years of using that/similar design on a table saw and that has
never been an issue.

Different strokes ... folks should use what is comfortable for them.

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On 8/2/2015 12:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>
> I've seen guys use two seperate bird's mouth push sticks to try to push
> the stock through the blade AND hold it down at the front.
>
> Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls the
> stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?
>
>

I have both types. Once I made the shoe type, I don't think I ever used
the bird again. The one I made has a handle like a handsaw and you can
get a firm grip on it.

On 8/3/2015 10:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/3/15 9:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>> The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both planes
>> is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test of time for me
>> with regard to safe operation ... so far.
>>
>
> I probably missed it, but what design?
>
>
>
Check further up, he has a link with a picture.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> no doubt this topic comes up once in a while
>
> here is a variety
> http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
>
> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
> which style do you reach for

Chrome is giving me a netnanny warning on that site. Went into it on
Linux and there is a nice collection of pushblock designs.

The links all go offsite. The ones that aren't broken I included below
for anyone who is interested.

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/107/107-pushblock.pdf
http://www.provenwoodworking.com/tablesaw-push-stick.html
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/06/10/ws/
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/thin-strip-
rippin-pushblock/
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/tip-ride-the-
rails-for-safer-ripping/
http://www.cvwa.org/Guide/Guide005.html
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/kickback-dont-
let-it-happen-to-you/
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/safety/finger-
saving-push-blocks/?page=1
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pdf/Push_Stick.pdf
http://www.timelesstreasuretrunk.com/Woodworking/projects.html#pushstick
http://www.knottyplans.com/index.php?page=20042
http://www.grampasworkshop.net/push%20stick.PDF
http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/OwnersManuals/20031020153937
_En912859-10-20-03.pdf
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2009/06/18/sn/
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2007/05/25/sn/
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/jointing-and-planing/sure-
grip-jointer-pushstick/
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=
28490

In answer to the original question though, it depends on what tool I'm
using and what the setup is. Some of my setups have the stock
completely controlled by featherboards or other supports and all the
stick has to do is move it through the blade. For others more control
is needed and I use various kinds depending on the particular cut.

In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 8/1/2015 4:24 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> > On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:46:53 -0400
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> The links all go offsite. The ones that aren't broken I included
> >
> > surprising that most links still work
> >
> >> In answer to the original question though, it depends on what tool
> >> I'm using and what the setup is. Some of my setups have the stock
> >> completely controlled by featherboards or other supports and all the
> >> stick has to do is move it through the blade. For others more
> >> control is needed and I use various kinds depending on the particular
> >> cut.
> >
> > someday i will try a featherboard
> > i am not the safest person in the shop but i do take care
> > high alert on the table saw and i usually cut myself with a chisel
> > or some other surprising way
>
> I would advise you to get a couple of feather boards ASAP, they can
> really improve your cuts.
>
> FWIW if you are ripping do not mount the feather board past the front
> cutting edge of the blade. You do not want the feather board pushing
> the waste side back into and pinching the blade. That ruins the waste
> side edge and could be dangerous.
>
> If you are using a dado set and cutting a groove use feather boards in
> front of the blade and behind the blade. Since you are not making a
> through cut there will be no pinching. This also insures that longer
> cuts do not drift away from the fence after passing over the blade.

I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make many
cuts just so much more _convenient_.

In article <[email protected]>,
Puckdropper says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
> > I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
> > available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make many
> > cuts just so much more _convenient_.
> >
>
> Or you can *gasp* buy one. The one I bought is stackable, so I can use it
> as either 2 featherboards or one tall one. Nice for resawing.
>
> Puckdropper

But "buy one" means that one can use "costs something" as an excuse not
to use them.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> > news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
> >
> > *snip*
> >>
> >> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out
> >> of me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to
> >> keep the work from being lifted and thrown back at you.
> >>
> >> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
> >>
> >
> > The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was
> > caused by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same
> > concept...
>
> Yeah, I had one like that, too. I think Delta used to supply
> a drawing for that style stick in their manuals (cut it out of
> the manual, glue to a piece of plywood, cut plywood to make
> stick). I never felt comfortable with it.
>
> John

The delta manual with that plan is one of the links from the article.

That's actually similar to the design I use to move "well controlled"
stock through. With featherboards on top and side the board isn't going
anyewhere unless it rips the fence off in the process and the notch
helps me keep the stick where I want it. But sometimes the stick has to
be narrow to push under the featherboard (yeah, I know, I need to make
up some thinner featherboards for those cuts.

On 8/3/2015 8:56 PM, Bill wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682

>>
> Is it make from ordinary laminated plywood?

Yep ...

Simply make your own pattern and cut them out on the bandsaw/jigsaw
about once every couple of years.

You can move the bottom "hook" further away from the handle, or orient
the handle to curve the other way, whichever is more comfortable for you.

Use scrap 3/4" ply for some, 1/2" for some, and 1/4" for a smaller
version when making edge banding.

Amazing how beat up they get, which would otherwise be a finger, or worse.

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On 8/1/2015 10:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
> which style do you reach for

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682


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On 8/1/2015 4:24 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:46:53 -0400
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The links all go offsite. The ones that aren't broken I included
>
> surprising that most links still work
>
>> In answer to the original question though, it depends on what tool
>> I'm using and what the setup is. Some of my setups have the stock
>> completely controlled by featherboards or other supports and all the
>> stick has to do is move it through the blade. For others more
>> control is needed and I use various kinds depending on the particular
>> cut.
>
> someday i will try a featherboard
> i am not the safest person in the shop but i do take care
> high alert on the table saw and i usually cut myself with a chisel
> or some other surprising way

I would advise you to get a couple of feather boards ASAP, they can
really improve your cuts.

FWIW if you are ripping do not mount the feather board past the front
cutting edge of the blade. You do not want the feather board pushing
the waste side back into and pinching the blade. That ruins the waste
side edge and could be dangerous.

If you are using a dado set and cutting a groove use feather boards in
front of the blade and behind the blade. Since you are not making a
through cut there will be no pinching. This also insures that longer
cuts do not drift away from the fence after passing over the blade.

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 8/1/2015 10:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>>
>> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>>
>> which style do you reach for
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/
> EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682

Mine is similar to that, except the handle goes the other way.
I don't like the designs that put the hand in front of the
notch pushing the board, because I think they can rotate
around the front and lift the notch. I think the hand needs
to be behind and above the notch so the line of force goes
thru the notch into the board.

That's for the table saw. For the bandsaw and router table
I just use any handy piece of scrap with a flat side. On
the jointer I use push pads on top of the stock.

John

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>> I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
>> available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make
>> many cuts just so much more _convenient_.
>>
>
> Or you can *gasp* buy one. The one I bought is stackable, so I can
> use it as either 2 featherboards or one tall one. Nice for resawing.

Best idea is to do both. You can buy featherboards that will
lock into the miter gauge slots on the tablesaw, which makes
them very convenient to use; and make several more to clamp
to the router table or a fence or other places where there
isn't a slot.

Certainly once you've used them you realize how simple and
effective they are for controlling the work.

John

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
>
> *snip*
>>
>> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out
>> of me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to
>> keep the work from being lifted and thrown back at you.
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>>
>
> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was
> caused by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same
> concept...

Yeah, I had one like that, too. I think Delta used to supply
a drawing for that style stick in their manuals (cut it out of
the manual, glue to a piece of plywood, cut plywood to make
stick). I never felt comfortable with it.

John

On 8/2/2015 8:58 PM, krw wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:33:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/2/15 10:35 AM, krw wrote:
>>>
>>> The birdsmouth is intended to push towards the blade, not down.
>>>>
>>
>> Exactly.
>> What's holding the stock down to the table when the blade it trying to
>> lift and throw it?
>
> If I suspect that anything bad could happen, a featherboard. If the
> stock is true, I don't bother.

Well let me warn you that some times what appears to be flat and
straight stock will can not appear that way after being cut. Be careful
with any stock.


>
>> Many things we cut on the table saw aren't heavy enough to stay against
>> the table surface when cutting.
>
> Featherboards.
>
>> I've seen guys use two seperate bird's mouth push sticks to try to push
>> the stock through the blade AND hold it down at the front.
>
> I will use two push sticks. One to push and one to hold down near the
> blade. I have a strict rule when using the table saw; no fingers
> beyond the blade until it stops spinning.
>>
>> Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls the
>> stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?
>
> Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.
>

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 08:36:48 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>no doubt this topic comes up once in a while
>
>here is a variety
>http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
>
>I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
>i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
>which style do you reach for
>
I have a couple fiberglass ones, one with a magnet in the handle. It's
stuck to the side of the table, right next to the remote control for
the dust collector (also stuck on with magnets). The other sits on
top of the fence. I like them where they're handy (and I know where
they are).

>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:33:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/2/15 10:35 AM, krw wrote:
>>
>> The birdsmouth is intended to push towards the blade, not down.
>>>
>
>Exactly.
>What's holding the stock down to the table when the blade it trying to
>lift and throw it?

If I suspect that anything bad could happen, a featherboard. If the
stock is true, I don't bother.

>Many things we cut on the table saw aren't heavy enough to stay against
>the table surface when cutting.

Featherboards.

>I've seen guys use two seperate bird's mouth push sticks to try to push
>the stock through the blade AND hold it down at the front.

I will use two push sticks. One to push and one to hold down near the
blade. I have a strict rule when using the table saw; no fingers
beyond the blade until it stops spinning.
>
>Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls the
>stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?

Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.

On 8/1/2015 10:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> no doubt this topic comes up once in a while
>
> here is a variety
> http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
>
> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
> which style do you reach for
>

Im getting a malware security warning when trying to go to that site.

But What I use is one that will allow me to apply downward pressure as
well as I push the work. I don't use a push stick that simply pushes
and does not prevent the work from lifting on the back side of the blade.

On 08/01/2015 06:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use one
> since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.

What, you don't remember the infamous Dead Bunny Push Stick:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92112754848710677/


--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

On 02 Aug 2015 11:15:11 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>krw <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>>http://wmo.asu.edu/world-greatest-sixty-minute-one-hour-rainfallOn
>>>Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use
>>>one since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock
>>>upwards. They are slightly less dangerous than using your hand.
>>
>> The idea is to keep your fingers out of the rotating parts. They
>> aren't intended to fix kick-back.
>
>They aren't intended to encourage kick-back, either, but that's what
>those dangerous birdsmouth push sticks do. If you put downward pressure
>on the very edge of something like a board, the board will tend to lift
>at the opposite end.

If the piece is that warped, perhaps. The birdsmouth is intended to
push towards the blade, not down.
>
>Considering how easy it is to make a push device that fixes that problem,
>there's no reason to ever use the birdsmouth style push stick. Ever.

Disagree.

>>>Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
>>>through the blade.
>>>Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.
>>
>> I often use featherboards and was looking at these at Woodcraft,
>> yesterday.
>>
>> http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04301.htm
>
>The best saw to use the birdsmouth push sticks on is the compound miter
>saw. Hold it square against the fence, and make a cut. Now you've got a
>scrap to use to double check the squareness of the fence.
>
Perhaps a square is a better tool?

>http://wmo.asu.edu/world-greatest-sixty-minute-one-hour-rainfallOn Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/1/15 5:15 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
>>
>> *snip*
>>>
>>> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out of
>>> me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to keep the
>>> work from being lifted and thrown back at you.
>>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>>>
>>
>> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was caused
>> by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same concept...
>>
>> A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy one. (I'd
>> avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for table saw use.)
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
>Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use one
>since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.
>They are slightly less dangerous than using your hand.

The idea is to keep your fingers out of the rotating parts. They
aren't intended to fix kick-back.

>Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
>through the blade.
>Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.

I often use featherboards and was looking at these at Woodcraft,
yesterday.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04301.htm

On 8/1/2015 11:36 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> no doubt this topic comes up once in a while
>
> here is a variety
> http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
>
> I use a push stick and a shoe type push block out of plywood veneer
>
> i use the shoe type the most so i like that one the best
>
> which style do you reach for
>
It seems like I remember reading on this forum you could use a dead cat
as a push block.

Is my memory faulty?

On 01 Aug 2015 16:47:34 GMT
Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

> I've got two: One is simply a short 2x4 with a little tang on the
> back (simple and fast to make) and the other is a longish piece of
> plywood with a handle shaped like a handsaw handle.
>
> I usually grab the 2x4 for thin cuts (I consider it extremely
> sacrificial) and the plywood for thicker cuts.

i will try that
but will glue a piece of sandpaper on the bottom just for better grip

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 12:16:50 -0500
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> Im getting a malware security warning when trying to go to that site.

i had no problems but i do use adblock

> But What I use is one that will allow me to apply downward pressure

my plywood one does that

> as well as I push the work. I don't use a push stick that simply
> pushes and does not prevent the work from lifting on the back side of
> the blade.

i think i made the push stick for cutting some small pieces

Keith Nuttle wrote:

>>
> It seems like I remember reading on this forum you could use a dead
> cat as a push block.
>
> Is my memory faulty?

Nope - not faulty at all. Wasn't that something like 101 Ways To Use A Dead
Cat?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:46:53 -0400
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The links all go offsite. The ones that aren't broken I included

surprising that most links still work

> In answer to the original question though, it depends on what tool
> I'm using and what the setup is. Some of my setups have the stock
> completely controlled by featherboards or other supports and all the
> stick has to do is move it through the blade. For others more
> control is needed and I use various kinds depending on the particular
> cut.

someday i will try a featherboard
i am not the safest person in the shop but i do take care
high alert on the table saw and i usually cut myself with a chisel
or some other surprising way

On 8/1/2015 2:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>>>
>> It seems like I remember reading on this forum you could use a dead
>> cat as a push block.
>>
>> Is my memory faulty?
>
> Nope - not faulty at all. Wasn't that something like 101 Ways To Use A Dead
> Cat?
>
I believe that was it. I am still using some of the advice from that
thread ;-)

On 8/1/15 5:15 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
>
> *snip*
>>
>> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell out of
>> me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do nothing to keep the
>> work from being lifted and thrown back at you.
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>>
>
> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw was caused
> by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the same concept...
>
> A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy one. (I'd
> avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for table saw use.)
>
> Puckdropper
>

Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use one
since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.
They are slightly less dangerous than using your hand.

Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
through the blade.
Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/1/15 9:41 PM, krw wrote:
>> http://wmo.asu.edu/world-greatest-sixty-minute-one-hour-rainfallOn
>> Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/15 5:15 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
>>>
>>> *snip*
>>>>
>>>> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell
>>>> out of me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do
>>>> nothing to keep the work from being lifted and thrown back at
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw
>>> was caused by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the
>>> same concept...
>>>
>>> A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy
>>> one. (I'd avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for
>>> table saw use.)
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would
>> use one since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the
>> stock upwards. They are slightly less dangerous than using your
>> hand.
>
> The idea is to keep your fingers out of the rotating parts. They
> aren't intended to fix kick-back.
>
>> Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
>> through the blade. Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that
>> un-apologetically.
>
> I often use featherboards and was looking at these at Woodcraft,
> yesterday.
>
> http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04301.htm
>

Well, I guess you could spend 300 bucks on those or make a shoe in 5
minutes out of a buck's worth of scrap wood.

I stand by what I said. Those crow's mouth type push sticks are for
those who don't like being able to count to ten.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

John McCoy wrote:

>
> Best idea is to do both. You can buy featherboards that will
> lock into the miter gauge slots on the tablesaw, which makes
> them very convenient to use; and make several more to clamp
> to the router table or a fence or other places where there
> isn't a slot.
>

That's what I use. I made my own out of scrap of 1x4. They work like a
top.

> Certainly once you've used them you realize how simple and
> effective they are for controlling the work.
>

Absolutely. The older I get, the less inclined to take some of the chances
I used to take in my younger years. I've come to really like my
featherboards and my claw that I push with.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 8/2/15 10:35 AM, krw wrote:
>
> The birdsmouth is intended to push towards the blade, not down.
>>

Exactly.
What's holding the stock down to the table when the blade it trying to
lift and throw it?
Many things we cut on the table saw aren't heavy enough to stay against
the table surface when cutting.

I've seen guys use two seperate bird's mouth push sticks to try to push
the stock through the blade AND hold it down at the front.

Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls the
stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/2/15 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> The magnetic featherboards work really well (on cast iron tops,
>> obviously), too.
>
> Yes they do, BUT not so well if the magnets happen to fall directly over
> the miter slot, it is surprising how many times that happens to me.
> Additionally the magnetic one that I use will not let a Gripper pass if
> the Gripper is wider than the stock being cut and the stock is 3/4"
> thick. I have to go to my wooden feather board which fits in the slot
> and is less than 3/4" thick.
>

Someone sells long, steel miter slots inserts that lock into the slot
and bridge that gap for magnetic feather boards.

I'll have to find the link for these, I was going to get some but the
move made me forget.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 01 Aug 2015 21:28:18 GMT
Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

> If I need to hold the material against the fence at the same time I'm
> pushing through the blade, I usually use the rounded end of one push
> stick as a feather board and push with the other. I'm only using
> enough pressure to keep the material from wandering, not pushing it
> tight like you can with a feather board.

want to try it with sandpaper to allow applying some pressure toward
the fence too

On Sat, 01 Aug 2015 20:37:28 -0400
krw <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have a couple fiberglass ones, one with a magnet in the handle. It's
> stuck to the side of the table, right next to the remote control for
> the dust collector (also stuck on with magnets). The other sits on
> top of the fence. I like them where they're handy (and I know where
> they are).

like the idea of storing with a magnet
i notice some newer saws have mounts for storing the miter sled

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 20:32:36 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

your email is almost a palindrome
if you had made it ogopogo

> around the front and lift the notch. I think the hand needs
> to be behind and above the notch so the line of force goes
> thru the notch into the board.

this is what i was thinking when i made mine

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

> Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.

do people apologize here for giving their opinions
i had not noticed

i use the push stick for small pieces

On 8/2/15 9:46 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 8/2/2015 9:58 PM, krw wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that
>>>> controls the stock in both directions and only takes one hand
>>>> to use?
>>>
>>> Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.
>>>
>>
>> Not if you put the handle back far enough.
>>
>
> How far back would the handle have to be? By the time it's back far
> enough to push the wood completely through the saw, wouldn't it tend
> to be rather cumbersome to handle?
>
> If you make the handle tall, then the hand can safely pass over the
> spinning parts to complete the cut. The cut isn't complete until the
> wood has passed by the blade completely, at least on the fence side.
>
> Puckdropper
>

Someone is just stuck in his ways.
Shoe blocks are overwhelmingly considered to be a much safer and more
effective means of passing stock through a table saw blade by the vast
majority of the woodworking community.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/2/15 10:21 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that un-apologetically.
>
> do people apologize here for giving their opinions
> i had not noticed
>

Rarely. :-)

They do, however, use punctuation most of the time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 16:42:56 -0500
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> I would advise you to get a couple of feather boards ASAP, they can
> really improve your cuts.

i am planning on making a couple of jigs or at least one for the bandsaw
so will have to research a little on form & function of feather boards


> FWIW if you are ripping do not mount the feather board past the front
> cutting edge of the blade. You do not want the feather board pushing
> the waste side back into and pinching the blade. That ruins the
> waste side edge and could be dangerous.

yes kind of obvious i think

> If you are using a dado set and cutting a groove use feather boards
> in front of the blade and behind the blade. Since you are not making
> a through cut there will be no pinching. This also insures that
> longer cuts do not drift away from the fence after passing over the
> blade.

this does make sense
although i don't have a dado set yet

On 8/3/15 9:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
> The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both planes
> is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test of time for me
> with regard to safe operation ... so far.
>

I probably missed it, but what design?



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/3/15 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/3/2015 10:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/3/15 9:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>> The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both
>>> planes is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test
>>> of time for me with regard to safe operation ... so far.
>>>
>>
>> I probably missed it, but what design?
>>
>>
>>
> Check further up, he has a link with a picture.

Found it...
<https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682>

I don't care what you say, there's no way two bird's mouth push sticks
are better than ONE of these. Anyone who's used both won't go back to
push sticks.

Sideways pushing feather boards do very little to hold the stock down
against the table. Unless you're using a featherboard vertical
pressure, you still need to hold the work down. And then why would you
bother setting it up when a shoe accomplishes both, safely, with one
hand instead of two.

Some people are stuck in their ways and refuse to admit the advantages
of new* ideas.
(* the show type push block has to be at least 50 years old)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/3/15 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/3/2015 10:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 8/3/15 9:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both
>>>> planes is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test
>>>> of time for me with regard to safe operation ... so far.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I probably missed it, but what design?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Check further up, he has a link with a picture.
>
> Found it...
> <https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682>
>
>
> I don't care what you say, there's no way two bird's mouth push sticks
> are better than ONE of these. Anyone who's used both won't go back to
> push sticks.
>
Is it make from ordinary laminated plywood?

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 12:16:50 -0500
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> Im getting a malware security warning when trying to go to that site.

may not explain your alert but it does remind us that advertisers once
again prove that no one and nothing is beneath them

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2956272/security/yahoo-tackles-large-malvertising-campaign-in-its-ad-network.html

yes i am suggesting the alert you got was from an malicious advertiser

Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/3/15 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/3/2015 10:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 8/3/15 9:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The ability to almost effortlessly maintain minimum force in both
>>>>> planes is why I like the design I use, which has stood the test
>>>>> of time for me with regard to safe operation ... so far.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I probably missed it, but what design?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Check further up, he has a link with a picture.
>>
>> Found it...
>> <https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918928011997682>
>>
>>
>> I don't care what you say, there's no way two bird's mouth push
>> sticks are better than ONE of these. Anyone who's used both won't
>> go back to push sticks.
>>
> Is it make from ordinary laminated plywood?

...or pieces of dimensional lumber. Either one will work. It's not the
wood that matters - it's the idea of getting your hand up and behind the
workpiece, while allowing the push-stick to apply both downward pressure and
forward pressure. It's really pretty simple. You could use MDF if you
wanted to.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 8/4/15 3:50 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
> On 08/01/2015 06:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use one
>> since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.
>
> What, you don't remember the infamous Dead Bunny Push Stick:
> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92112754848710677/
>

Am I missing an inside joke here?
That is not a push stick, that is a shoe-style push block.
Those are much, much safer than push sticks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/4/15 7:09 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
> On 08/04/2015 12:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/4/15 3:50 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
>>> On 08/01/2015 06:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would use
>>>> one
>>>> since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the stock upwards.
>>>
>>> What, you don't remember the infamous Dead Bunny Push Stick:
>>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92112754848710677/
>>>
>>
>> Am I missing an inside joke here?
>> That is not a push stick, that is a shoe-style push block.
>> Those are much, much safer than push sticks.
>
> Not an inside joke - just a historical reference to the wreck waaaay
> back in the day. I guess I don't make the distinction between a push
> stick and a push block in much the same way that most people call facial
> tissue "Kleenix". Much to the Kleenix company lawyers chagrin and their
> advertising departments joy...
>
> ...Kevin

Well... the distinction is kind of the point of this whole thread. :-D
One is a stick, one is a block.

It would be like Kleenex vs. a sponge.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:45:19 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/1/15 9:41 PM, krw wrote:
>>> http://wmo.asu.edu/world-greatest-sixty-minute-one-hour-rainfallOn
>>> Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:31:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/1/15 5:15 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:55BD3B1B.1080500@swbelldotnet:
>>>>
>>>> *snip*
>>>>>
>>>>> Those push sticks that do not hold the work down scare the hell
>>>>> out of me. They keep your hands away from the blade but do
>>>>> nothing to keep the work from being lifted and thrown back at
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/push-stick-33279.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The closest I've ever been to a major accident on my table saw
>>>> was caused by that style of push stick. It was homemade, but the
>>>> same concept...
>>>>
>>>> A safer push stick is super easy to build, or you can *gasp* buy
>>>> one. (I'd avoid the "high tech" or mousepad style pushers for
>>>> table saw use.)
>>>>
>>>> Puckdropper
>>>>
>>>
>>> Push sticks should be outlawed. I can't fathom why anyone would
>>> use one since they offer NO resistance to the blade pushing the
>>> stock upwards. They are slightly less dangerous than using your
>>> hand.
>>
>> The idea is to keep your fingers out of the rotating parts. They
>> aren't intended to fix kick-back.
>>
>>> Use a shoe that holds the stock down to the table as it pushes it
>>> through the blade. Push sticks are for idiots... and I say that
>>> un-apologetically.
>>
>> I often use featherboards and was looking at these at Woodcraft,
>> yesterday.
>>
>> http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04301.htm
>>
>
>Well, I guess you could spend 300 bucks on those or make a shoe in 5
>minutes out of a buck's worth of scrap wood.

$250 at Woodcraft but yes, they're expensive. They also do the job of
the featherboards (in both planes).

>I stand by what I said. Those crow's mouth type push sticks are for
>those who don't like being able to count to ten.

Nonsense. As long as your fingers never go past the blade you're not
going to get 'em chopped off. Push sticks keep them out of the blade.
You might get hit in the gut with a hunk of board but that's why it's
good not to stand behind the workpiece.

On 8/2/2015 9:58 PM, krw wrote:

>>
>> Again I ask, why not use a simple shoe type push guide that controls the
>> stock in both directions and only takes one hand to use?
>
> Because the fingers have to go past the spinning parts.
>

Not if you put the handle back far enough.

On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 13:39:54 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>> I would add that there is little excuse not to have featherboards
>>> available. They take a few minutes to make out of scrap and make
>>> many cuts just so much more _convenient_.
>>>
>>
>> Or you can *gasp* buy one. The one I bought is stackable, so I can
>> use it as either 2 featherboards or one tall one. Nice for resawing.
>
>Best idea is to do both. You can buy featherboards that will
>lock into the miter gauge slots on the tablesaw, which makes
>them very convenient to use; and make several more to clamp
>to the router table or a fence or other places where there
>isn't a slot.

The magnetic featherboards work really well (on cast iron tops,
obviously), too.
>
>Certainly once you've used them you realize how simple and
>effective they are for controlling the work.

I use featherboards on the fence, too, but have to be careful so they
don't lift the fence.