This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
bench and landed on the floor.
Rurned saw off! Checking the cut on both pieces (offcut and main
piece), showed nothing strange, no burns, saw marks, gouges, no
nothing - just a fractured 45 degree corner where the offcut triangle
hit the bench.
Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!
Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).
Regards.
Tom
"Tom B" <[email protected]> wrote
> This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
> go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
> purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
> control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
> of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
> mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
> Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
> get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
> exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
> at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
> bench and landed on the floor.
Presumably, the offcut touched the uprunning teeth.
A riving knife (splitter) is supposed to prevent this.
Jeff
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net
"Tom B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
> go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
> purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
> control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
> of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
> mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
> Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
> get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
> exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
> at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
> bench and landed on the floor.
>
> Rurned saw off! Checking the cut on both pieces (offcut and main
> piece), showed nothing strange, no burns, saw marks, gouges, no
> nothing - just a fractured 45 degree corner where the offcut triangle
> hit the bench.
>
> Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
> no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
> follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
> That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
> cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!
>
> Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
> just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).
>
> Regards.
>
> Tom
Tom,
Jeff Gorman answered what most likely caused it - but now, how to prevent
future mishaps is the next step. Having had this happen to me (and had the
bruises to prove it...) I found that the main cause for this is that the
wood slipped just enough (a thousandth of an inch is more than enough) to
cause the cutoff to be pulled into the blade. This piece is now setup to be
grabbed by the teeth on the rear of the blade, flinging it up and out -
rather quickly as you noted.
Get some stick on sandpaper and put about 1/2" wide strip of that on the
front of your miter gauge and on any extension fence you may have on your
miter gauge. I have 3 Incra's and they all have a 1/2" high strip stuck to
the face of each. There are certainly other things you can do to prevent
this but hand-holding a piece of wood, especially at an angle is inviting
the wood to slip.
Ed Bennett's new site (www.tablesawalignment.com) would be a good place to
include these type of safety tips for future reference. I'm plugging his
site because I have used his TS Aligner JR since they first came out, his
DVD and site tutorials are excellent and Ed has been a long time contributor
to this newsgroup and mostly because a well aligned tablesaw is a big step
towards working safely.
Bob S.
"Tom B" wrote:
> Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that
> says
> no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
> follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
> That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
> cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!
SFWIW, the above is why I use a sled where ever possible, especially
miter cuits.
Lew
"Glen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With most safety rules I have to go over them time and time again to get
> my kids to practice them. Even with that, I still have to remind them
> "Where is your eye protection" and "Where is your push stick." The lesson
> about standing in the kickback zone I only have to cover once. What I do
> after explaining what kickback is and the potential speed of a kickback
> (Someone once told me it can be over 200 MPH. I have no idea if this is
> true or not, but I use the figure anyway.) I stand behind the saw and lay
> a board on the table. I move the board back slowly to show where it would
> hit if the board went straight back. Then I repeat, "Imagine this board
> hitting you here (with the board strategically placed into my gonads) at
> two hundred miles per hour." At that point I drop two ball bearings on
> the floor and watch them slowly roll away. Every kid in the class winces
> and I can see their knees coming together in an reflexive, protective
> manner. For some unknown reason they ALWAYS remember that rule.
>
The old threaten their gonads trick!
Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He always said if
you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their genitals. Every
male has an instinctive response of protecting the family jewels. His
extensive background in law enforcement proved this to be true. Combative
crazy men would calm right down when a gun was pointed there. Besides if
you have to shoot, a bullet to the pelvis area will almost always stop them
cold.
Look like you are practicing something similar in your shop. I am just
wondering if this is politically correct or not. I suppose it is because
most politically correct behavior is emasculating in some manner.
Congratulations on an original (and effective) teaching method.
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Look like you are practicing something similar in your shop. I am just
> wondering if this is politically correct or not. I suppose it is because
> most politically correct behavior is emasculating in some manner.
Considering the number of women that are getting into shop class these days,
I'm wondering what kind of reaction (after the initial laugh) you'd get out
of them?
"Lee Michaels" wrote:
> Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He always
> said if you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their
> genitals. Every male has an instinctive response of protecting the
> family jewels. His extensive background in law enforcement proved
> this to be true. Combative crazy men would calm right down when a
> gun was pointed there. Besides if you have to shoot, a bullet to
> the pelvis area will almost always stop them cold.
Another vote for a sawed off double barreled shot gun.
You don't have to be in your seat, just in the stadium<G>.
Lew
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" wrote:
>
>> Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He
>> always
>> said if you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their
>> genitals. Every male has an instinctive response of protecting the
>> family jewels. His extensive background in law enforcement proved
>> this to be true. Combative crazy men would calm right down when a
>> gun was pointed there. Besides if you have to shoot, a bullet to
>> the pelvis area will almost always stop them cold.
>
>
> Another vote for a sawed off double barreled shot gun.
>
> You don't have to be in your seat, just in the stadium<G>.
Friend of mine, ex Ranger, used to say that. He got one. Took the
LFI shotgun class. Traded it on a 9mm.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
With most safety rules I have to go over them time and time again to get my
kids to practice them. Even with that, I still have to remind them "Where
is your eye protection" and "Where is your push stick." The lesson about
standing in the kickback zone I only have to cover once. What I do after
explaining what kickback is and the potential speed of a kickback (Someone
once told me it can be over 200 MPH. I have no idea if this is true or not,
but I use the figure anyway.) I stand behind the saw and lay a board on the
table. I move the board back slowly to show where it would hit if the board
went straight back. Then I repeat, "Imagine this board hitting you here
(with the board strategically placed into my gonads) at two hundred miles
per hour." At that point I drop two ball bearings on the floor and watch
them slowly roll away. Every kid in the class winces and I can see their
knees coming together in an reflexive, protective manner. For some unknown
reason they ALWAYS remember that rule.
Glen
--
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan
"Tom B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<SNIP> First cut was absolutely normal through blade
> exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
> at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
> bench and landed on the floor.
>
<SNIP>
> Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
> no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
> follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
> That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
> cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!
>
> Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
> just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).
>
> Regards.
>
> Tom
Thanks for all the ideas.
Mitre sled is probably the safest way to go - time for me to build one
as I only have a 90 degree cross cut sled today.
My mitre gauge (an Incra 1000 SE) has sandpaper on it, but that is
also a good idea.
I also have Ed Bennet's TS Aligner and whole-heartedly agree that he's
a good guy and sells a good product.
After much thought I can only guess that vibration or a tiny movement
of the wood I was holding as the cut finished caused the
kickback/throwback (I'm not going to argue which it was 'cause I don't
have a slo-mo video of the action). In any case it was a bit more
exciting than I prefer when in woodworking mode.
Regards.
Tom
STAY OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE, EVEN IF THE WEAPON IS "EMPTY"
(ain't no such thing!)
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:00:00 -0500, Tom B <[email protected]>
wrote:
Ahh... you mean "kick back"...
I thought you were talking about a cave man or something.. lol
It's very much like a fire fight... You don't want to be in the place the shit
is heading...
Glad you were out of the "line of fire"..
>This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
>go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
>purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
>control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
>of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
>mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
>Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
>get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
>exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
>at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
>bench and landed on the floor.
>
>Rurned saw off! Checking the cut on both pieces (offcut and main
>piece), showed nothing strange, no burns, saw marks, gouges, no
>nothing - just a fractured 45 degree corner where the offcut triangle
>hit the bench.
>
>Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
>no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
>follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
>That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
>cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!
>
>Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
>just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).
>
>Regards.
>
>Tom
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing