Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel for
something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise with
a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
sharp.
I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
"Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
"sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
Just an observation.
Mike
On Feb 22, 6:56 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools.
Then you're not reading enough.
> Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
A dull chisel is far more likely to cut you than a dull plane iron.
It also does a poor job paring or chopping.
>
> Just an observation.
>
> Mike
On Feb 22, 8:33 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...> On Feb 22, 6:56 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> >> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools.
>
> > Then you're not reading enough.
>
> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing to
> be sharp?
Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
Shovels...
Hatchets. ESPECIALLY hatchets. They're not sharp enough
to bite, they glance, sometimes into pieces of meat belonging
to say, you. Jerry Garcia lost one finger this way. Tony
Iommi from Black Sabbath lost two.
Doesn't leave much else besides hammers.
> >> Is it
> >> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> > A dull chisel is far more likely to cut you than a dull plane iron.
>
> A dull tablesaw blade can cause all sorts of problems too. No?
Slightly harder feed, mostly. I'm still using the Systimatic 50
tooth combo that came with my saw 12 years ago, never
sharpened.
On Feb 22, 7:16 pm, DJ Delorie <[email protected]> wrote:
> Woodcraft puts that on their training descriptions. "Bring a sharp
> gouge". I asked them why once, and they said that if they didn't say
> that, people would bring dull ones.
>
> Maybe it's because chisels and gouges are tools where the force on the
> tip is generated by (or controlled by) your hand, instead of a motor?
> Therefor, it makes a difference if it's dull - a motor can force a
> dull saw blade through wood, but it's much harder for your hand to
> force a dull chisel through wood.
I'll agree with this. Unlike the power blades, cutters, sharp is more
noticebale when powered AND guided by hand. Even hand plane blades
have a structure around them to guide them. Your hand power just
pushes the structure. A Lie Nielsen #5 plane with a less than sharp
blade will perform far better than a Great Neck #5 plane with a sharp
blade. Chisels, saws, and a few other tools, sharpness is number one
importance.
>
> Aren't dull chisels used for scraping paint, anyway? ;-)
On Feb 23, 10:06 am, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
> them from rusting?
For some strange reason I don't have a problem with rusted anything in
my little Wisconsin shop. Not sure why.
Once I've got a chisel sharp enough to shave with, a few strokes on
the five k grit and a few on the 8 k will bring it right back. Maybe
ten, fifteen minutes from getting the stones out to putting them away.
Unless I drop it on the floor.
Once I pulled a shoulder muscle trying to catch a chisel as it fell
off the bench. Didn't catch it. It landed on a canvas toolbag,
completey unharmed. And I realized that if I *had* caught it, I
probably would have slit the web between my thumb and forefinger.
Since then, I don't worry about it so much.
On Feb 23, 11:06 am, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....
1 minute.
> what grit
> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......
Felt wheel, green chrome stick.
> and what do you use to keep
> them from rusting?
Use.
On Feb 23, 7:25 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
> >> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing
> >> to
> >> be sharp?
>
> > Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
> > Shovels...
>
> Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole with a
> "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
Makes it easier to cut through roots.
On Feb 23, 9:23 pm, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Dembroge wrote:
>
> | Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole
> | with a "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
>
> Not too amazing. Also sharpen your garden hoe and long-handled fork
> tines.
File hoes incannel, i.e. side of blade facing the operator.
This pulls the blade into the soil when you pull on the tool.
> A sharpened (to _two_ edges) straight screwdriver won't slip out of
> the slot and mar your work as readily as a screwdriver with
> worn/rounded edges and corners.
Hollow ground tips jump out of the slot least, since the
bearing faces are close to parallel -- there's a reason why
your power screwdriver bits aren't flat ground. Be sure to
grind off the corners, so they don't stick out past the slot
and chew up the wood right when you get a screw driven
home.
> I sharpen my center punch from time to time;
Makes it easy to "grab" the side of an offcenter
punch mark and "move" it back on target.
> and every now and then I
> run a fine file down the end of my putty knives - makes em work better
> for just about everything you'd want to use one for.
I sharpen my silkscreen squeegies. Prints come out
sharper, with less smudging.
On Feb 24, 2:25 am, Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote:
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 23, 10:06 am, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> >> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
> >> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
> >> them from rusting?
>
> > For some strange reason I don't have a problem with rusted anything in
> > my little Wisconsin shop. Not sure why.
>
> > Once I've got a chisel sharp enough to shave with, a few strokes on
> > the five k grit and a few on the 8 k will bring it right back. Maybe
> > ten, fifteen minutes from getting the stones out to putting them away.
>
> > Unless I drop it on the floor.
> > Once I pulled a shoulder muscle trying to catch a chisel as it fell
> > off the bench. Didn't catch it. It landed on a canvas toolbag,
> > completey unharmed. And I realized that if I *had* caught it, I
> > probably would have slit the web between my thumb and forefinger.
>
> > Since then, I don't worry about it so much.
>
> Don't try to catch sharp things! You may not realize this, but claw
> hammers claws also tend to be sharp... I picked up one in Menards once,
> and because of the design it didn't come out of the holder properly, and
> I tried to catch it. I caught it, but I wished I hadn't.
They're also not meant for pulling hardened nails. The inside
edges of the claws are sharp so you can grip a nail by its
shank, not just its head.
OK, how about this:
chisels *look* a bit like screwdrivers, or paint scrapers, or pry
bars, or flower garden digging tools... and sometimes get used for
those things, especially by beginners. so in beginner level tutorials,
it makes a lot of sense to *specify* that a chisel needs to be sharp,
where it's not so necessary to specify that jointer blades need to be
sharp.
nah, that couldn't be it.....
On Feb 23, 9:06 am, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....
20-30 seconds at a pop.
>what grit stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......
for my at-hand chisels, I keep a 600 grit diamond stone close and
touch the edge up before it gets dull. for some specialty chisels I'll
go to a finer stone, but they cut pretty well at 600 grit.
>and what do you use to keep them from rusting?
I keep 'em dry.
so are we gonna start calling shovels "dirt chisels?"
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You've never heard of sharpening a shovel? I thought that was common
> knowledge.
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
>> >> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as
>> >> needing
>> >> to
>> >> be sharp?
>> >
>> > Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
>> > Shovels...
>>
>> Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole with
>> a
>> "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
>>
>>
>> > Hatchets. ESPECIALLY hatchets. They're not sharp enough
>> > to bite, they glance, sometimes into pieces of meat belonging
>> > to say, you. Jerry Garcia lost one finger this way. Tony
>> > Iommi from Black Sabbath lost two.
>> >
>> > Doesn't leave much else besides hammers.
>>
>>
>
>
Mike Dembroge wrote:
> This is not a serious issue. Having sharp tools is serious, but the fact
> that it's only mentioned explicitly when using chisels and implied with
> seemingly everything else is just curious to me. That's all.
>
Ya know something ... when you use a dull chisel, you just whack it
harder. And the next time you use it, you whack it still harder. And
harder and harder.
Long past the point of cutting, you've been pinching and yanking fibers
free for quite a while.
It's very difficult to leave a clean edge when you do that. Your control
has been marginal (at best) for quite a while. And still the tendency is
to just whack it a little harder because you only need to make two more
cuts.
A plane will FORCE you to sharpen it. A dull circular saw blade will
send up smoke signals. A dull hand saw blade will work your tail ragged
and give you nothing much in return. And who can be certain how the
shovel was supposed to feel with that particular load of dirt, anyways?
But a chisel will keep making cut-shaped marks in the wood as long as
you can keep whacking it harder and harder.
Of course, when you lay aside the mallet and try to make a hand-powered
paring cut, that dull chisel is gonna look at you and just grin.
Use a sharp chisel. ;-)
Bill
--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.
H. P. Lovecraft
---
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Virus Database (VPS): 000716-3, 02/23/2007
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<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> for my at-hand chisels, I keep a 600 grit diamond stone close and
> touch the edge up before it gets dull. for some specialty chisels I'll
> go to a finer stone, but they cut pretty well at 600 grit.
Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil, water &
ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:22:25 -0500, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:09:09 -0800, "Rod & Betty Jo"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil,
>>>water &
>>>ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
>>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/grit.sizes.html
>
>
>
> Even better:
> http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm
>
Thanks much for both links......There's a reason this group is a "must
read".... Rod
I more or less agree with you Mike, although I would hope that most informed
people just refer to a water heater. But then again I am probably naive.
Waith, I better go "unthaw" something.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Okay, you guys are missing the point. Never did I say or imply that it's
>> not important for other items to be sharp (shovels included I guess. I'm
>> not sure I would classify a shovel as a woodworking tool. Maybe if your
>> chainsaw won't start though ;-) ). My point was that nobody states that
>> they need to be sharp in order to use them with the same regularity and
> zeal
>> that they do chisels. Of course a scraper and plane iron need to be
> sharp,
>> but it's never mentioned explicitly. It's implied.
>>
>
> Oh, I don't think anyone really missed the point Mike. In fact I think
> the
> fact that everyone really did get the point is evidenced by the humorous
> responses. Who can really answer the question seriously, though? It's
> kind
> of like people calling the thing in your basement a Hot Water Heater. Hot
> water needs no heater, but that's what it's called. In like manner, for
> some reason the admonishment for a sharp chisel has taken on a life
> despite
> the obvious redundancy or inexplicability of it.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, Mike Dembroge
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel for
> something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise with
> a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
> everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
> sharp.
>
> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
It's code for "don't use your chisel as a screwdriver or to open paint
cans, you idiot."
--
You can't PLAN sincerity. You have to make it up on the spot! -- Denny Crane
Okay, you guys are missing the point. Never did I say or imply that it's
not important for other items to be sharp (shovels included I guess. I'm
not sure I would classify a shovel as a woodworking tool. Maybe if your
chainsaw won't start though ;-) ). My point was that nobody states that
they need to be sharp in order to use them with the same regularity and zeal
that they do chisels. Of course a scraper and plane iron need to be sharp,
but it's never mentioned explicitly. It's implied.
Mr. Haskell said that I obviously don't read enough. Yet, I still don't see
any examples of anything to suggest I'm missing something.
For example, how many times have you watched NYW, Woodworks or something and
the host squares up a hinge mortise or something and says "use a sharp
chisel to square up the corners". But, when they use a block plane to put a
slight chamfer on something, they don't say, "use a block plane with a sharp
blade". It's just implied that the block plane blade should be sharp.
However, with a chisel, it's not. They will explicitly state that the
chisel needs to be sharp.
This is not a serious issue. Having sharp tools is serious, but the fact
that it's only mentioned explicitly when using chisels and implied with
seemingly everything else is just curious to me. That's all.
Tom Watson made a good point that because you hold a chisel in your hand,
it's more dangerous than say a dull plane blade. I don't use a lathe, and
others have said that it is common to mention "sharp" when using lathe tools
and I can understand that too. I probably just never picked up on it
because I haven't used a lathe.
Mike
> You've never heard of sharpening a shovel? I thought that was common
> knowledge.
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
>> >> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as
>> >> needing
>> >> to
>> >> be sharp?
>> >
>> > Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
>> > Shovels...
>>
>> Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole with
>> a
>> "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
Mike Dembroge wrote:
> Okay, you guys are missing the point. Never did I say or imply that it's
> not important for other items to be sharp (shovels included I guess. I'm
> not sure I would classify a shovel as a woodworking tool. Maybe if your
> chainsaw won't start though ;-) ). My point was that nobody states that
> they need to be sharp in order to use them with the same regularity and zeal
> that they do chisels. Of course a scraper and plane iron need to be sharp,
> but it's never mentioned explicitly. It's implied.
>
> Mr. Haskell said that I obviously don't read enough. Yet, I still don't see
> any examples of anything to suggest I'm missing something.
There have been many times I've seen novice do-it-yourselfers trying to
use a cold chisel let in a door latch.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
for
> something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise
with
> a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
> everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
> sharp.
>
> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> Just an observation.
>
Geeze Mike, everyone knows the answer to this. Sharp chisels are for paring
wood. Dull chisels are for removing common head screws and for prying stuck
objects. It's all about the proper tool for the job.
Man - ya gotta explain everything to some people...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Good point. I understand that dull tools are more dangerous (ax comes to
mind), and I didn't think of the safety issue. My point wasn't so much that
a chisel must be sharp, but rather that the chisel seems to be singled out
exclusively. Like I said though, I probably didn't think of the safety
angle.
Okay, back to work now...
"tom watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:56:18 GMT, "Mike Dembroge"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
>>for
>>something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise
>>with
>>a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
>>everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
>>sharp.
>
> The most important reason is that a dull chisel will hurt you quicker
> than a sharp chisel.
>
> That may seem to be counterintuitive but the reasoning is that a great
> deal of force will have to be used on a dullish chisel and that force
> may be redirected at you, rather than towards the work.
>
>
Mike Dembroge wrote:
| Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole
| with a "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
Not too amazing. Also sharpen your garden hoe and long-handled fork
tines.
A sharpened (to _two_ edges) straight screwdriver won't slip out of
the slot and mar your work as readily as a screwdriver with
worn/rounded edges and corners.
I sharpen my center punch from time to time; and every now and then I
run a fine file down the end of my putty knives - makes em work better
for just about everything you'd want to use one for.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Feb 23, 10:06 am, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
>> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
>> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
>> them from rusting?
>
> For some strange reason I don't have a problem with rusted anything in
> my little Wisconsin shop. Not sure why.
>
> Once I've got a chisel sharp enough to shave with, a few strokes on
> the five k grit and a few on the 8 k will bring it right back. Maybe
> ten, fifteen minutes from getting the stones out to putting them away.
>
> Unless I drop it on the floor.
> Once I pulled a shoulder muscle trying to catch a chisel as it fell
> off the bench. Didn't catch it. It landed on a canvas toolbag,
> completey unharmed. And I realized that if I *had* caught it, I
> probably would have slit the web between my thumb and forefinger.
>
> Since then, I don't worry about it so much.
>
>
Don't try to catch sharp things! You may not realize this, but claw
hammers claws also tend to be sharp... I picked up one in Menards once,
and because of the design it didn't come out of the holder properly, and
I tried to catch it. I caught it, but I wished I hadn't.
Puckdropper
--
This post is a bit of a test, just making sure everything's working again
after a server failure.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Bill in Detroit <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip: Wacking the chisel*
>
> Of course, when you lay aside the mallet and try to make a
> hand-powered paring cut, that dull chisel is gonna look at you and
> just grin.
Somewhere I got the impression that a good woodworking chisel was one
that could cut through the wood with no help from a hammer or mallet.
Perhaps that was one of those "happiness is..." moments?
> Use a sharp chisel. ;-)
And a sharper wit. ;-)
> Bill
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay, you guys are missing the point. Never did I say or imply that it's
> not important for other items to be sharp (shovels included I guess. I'm
> not sure I would classify a shovel as a woodworking tool. Maybe if your
> chainsaw won't start though ;-) ). My point was that nobody states that
> they need to be sharp in order to use them with the same regularity and
zeal
> that they do chisels. Of course a scraper and plane iron need to be
sharp,
> but it's never mentioned explicitly. It's implied.
>
Oh, I don't think anyone really missed the point Mike. In fact I think the
fact that everyone really did get the point is evidenced by the humorous
responses. Who can really answer the question seriously, though? It's kind
of like people calling the thing in your basement a Hot Water Heater. Hot
water needs no heater, but that's what it's called. In like manner, for
some reason the admonishment for a sharp chisel has taken on a life despite
the obvious redundancy or inexplicability of it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:22:25 -0500, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:09:09 -0800, "Rod & Betty Jo"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil, water &
>>ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
>>
>
>
>http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/grit.sizes.html
Even better:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:56:18 GMT, "Mike Dembroge"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel for
>something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise with
>a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
>everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
>sharp.
The most important reason is that a dull chisel will hurt you quicker
than a sharp chisel.
That may seem to be counterintuitive but the reasoning is that a great
deal of force will have to be used on a dullish chisel and that force
may be redirected at you, rather than towards the work.
"splinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
> them from rusting?
>
I don't worry about the surface rust that develops. It takes a couple of
quick wipes to clean them off and they're good to go. I'm of the mind that
my tools are tools, not show pieces and they are subject to some of the
things that happen to tools. When they need a touch up I just hit them on
some sand paper.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:56:18 GMT, "Mike Dembroge"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel for
>something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise with
>a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
>everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
>sharp.
>
>I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
>sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
>"Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
>plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
>It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
>"sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
>really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
>Just an observation.
>
>Mike
>
Try comparing the two: a sharp chisel and a dull one. It's almost
like two different tools. Power tools show less differences: slight
bogging down, burned wood, hairy cuts, etc.
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:09:09 -0800, "Rod & Betty Jo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil, water &
>ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
>
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/grit.sizes.html
"splinter" wrote in message
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
> them from rusting?
Books have been written about this subject ... but some of us just go buy a
new one. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 22, 6:56 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
>> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools.
>
> Then you're not reading enough.
Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing to
be sharp?
>
>> Is it
>> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> A dull chisel is far more likely to cut you than a dull plane iron.
A dull tablesaw blade can cause all sorts of problems too. No?
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool
> that needs to be sharp.
Because a "cold chisel" is not sharp enough. ;~)
What is "sharp"? My wood working chisels are sharp enough to shave with, my
cold chisel is "sharp" but you couldn't shave with it. Most people think of
a cold chisel as dull, and it is for wood work, so you use a "sharp" or wood
working chisel for wood work not a "dull" cold chisel. Other tools used for
wood work are generaly used only for wood work and do not have common
counterparts for other materials. Yes I know that saws etc. are used for
other materials but most people think of them and other tools as for wood
and not other materials.
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool
> that needs to be sharp.
>
> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> Just an observation.
>
> Mike
>
Only the square ones. The round ones are dirt gouges. :)
"Doug Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> so are we gonna start calling shovels "dirt chisels?"
>
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool
> that needs to be sharp.
That's easy... it's so that your son can drop them on the concrete floor in
your shop. My 9 year old son did that to the shaving-sharp chisel he was
using last night while I was giving him more training in cutting dovetails
by hand. Took the corner right off it!
With that I had to regrind the chisel back to good metal before moving on to
Arkansas stones. He was getting inpatient while I restored the cutting edge
and started kiddingly complaining that I was cutting into his work time! I
reminded him that he damaged the chisel. To that he responded, "No, you
did." I asked, "How do you figure that, you dropped it?" With a mischievous
grin he said, "You're fixing it so you must have damaged it." Kids! ;~)
John
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Why do companies tout their products as being constructed of 'space-age'
> materials?
>
> The space age's golden period was in the 1960's.
>
> Just wondering.
>
I expect that may have something to do with the fact that materials science
really advanced in leaps and bounds, particularly in ceramics and alloys, in
connection with space research. So the association probably kinda stuck.
-Peter
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
LOL!
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for
>> something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise
> with
>> a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
>> everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
>> sharp.
>>
>> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
>> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
>> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
>> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>>
>> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
>> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
>> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>>
>> Just an observation.
>>
>
>
> Geeze Mike, everyone knows the answer to this. Sharp chisels are for
> paring
> wood. Dull chisels are for removing common head screws and for prying
> stuck
> objects. It's all about the proper tool for the job.
>
> Man - ya gotta explain everything to some people...
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>
Now that someone has given you a link, be aware that comparisons of that
type are of very little value. The cutting characteristics are very
different between materials.
"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > for my at-hand chisels, I keep a 600 grit diamond stone close and
> > touch the edge up before it gets dull. for some specialty chisels I'll
> > go to a finer stone, but they cut pretty well at 600 grit.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil, water
&
> ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
>
>
"Mike Dembroge" wrote in message
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
for
> something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the mortise
with
> a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp chisel". Why does
> everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool that needs to be
> sharp.
Not always. Never heard anyone say "Open that paint can with a sharp chisel"
... but it happens anyway.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
[snip]
>> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
>> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing
>> to
>> be sharp?
>
> Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
> Shovels...
Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole with a
"sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
> Hatchets. ESPECIALLY hatchets. They're not sharp enough
> to bite, they glance, sometimes into pieces of meat belonging
> to say, you. Jerry Garcia lost one finger this way. Tony
> Iommi from Black Sabbath lost two.
>
> Doesn't leave much else besides hammers.
As long as we're pondering such questions....
Why do companies tout their products as being constructed of 'space-age'
materials?
The space age's golden period was in the 1960's.
Just wondering.
jc
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool
> that needs to be sharp.
>
> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> Just an observation.
>
> Mike
>
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 19:41:26 GMT, Pat Barber
<[email protected]> wrote:
>It is always better to have a sharp chisel to drop on the
>floor. It would make no sense to nick a dull chisel ???
Sounds like you've been in my shop.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:51:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Okay, you guys are missing the point. Never did I say or imply that it's
>> not important for other items to be sharp (shovels included I guess. I'm
>> not sure I would classify a shovel as a woodworking tool. Maybe if your
>> chainsaw won't start though ;-) ). My point was that nobody states that
>> they need to be sharp in order to use them with the same regularity and
>zeal
>> that they do chisels. Of course a scraper and plane iron need to be
>sharp,
>> but it's never mentioned explicitly. It's implied.
>>
>
>Oh, I don't think anyone really missed the point Mike. In fact I think the
>fact that everyone really did get the point is evidenced by the humorous
>responses. Who can really answer the question seriously, though? It's kind
>of like people calling the thing in your basement a Hot Water Heater. Hot
>water needs no heater, but that's what it's called.
Maybe because, in times past, before all the insulation on the things,
they really were hot. So they were hot, water heaters :-)
> In like manner, for
>some reason the admonishment for a sharp chisel has taken on a life despite
>the obvious redundancy or inexplicability of it.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Doug Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> so are we gonna start calling shovels "dirt chisels?"
My best friend is constantly using my screwdrivers for chisels (cold
chisels) whenever he is working on something in my garage. On top of that -
everything he uses, he sticks in his pocket. Not because he's trying to
make off with it, but that's just his holding area for tools. Every time I
go to grab a screwdriver it seems I find the tips broken - or the damned
screwdriver is missing. Call Jim - sure enough, it's in his pocket. So...
around here we've come to refer to screwdrivers as Jim's pocket chisels.
But, Jim is one of those friends who just can't do anything wrong. You know
the type - they are such a good friend that they just can't do anything
wrong.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"splinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just curious....how much time do you guys spend sharpening....say a
> 1/2 in. chisel that has dulled from normal woodworking.....what grit
> stones do you use/ brand/ water/oil......and what do you use to keep
> them from rusting?
>
Sharpening is followed by honing, and perhaps by stropping. Tuning up in
the middle of a project is done with a ceramic, maybe a minute, including
pulling and replacing the stone. The sharpening is a rare thing, coarser
honing is once in a while and perhaps five minutes. I do all with the same
bevel when I hone, whether an individual chisel needs it or not. I strop
the carving tools, don't strop chisels.
I don't store 'em where they'll get moisture and make sure they have none
when I return them to the rack.
"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> for my at-hand chisels, I keep a 600 grit diamond stone close and
>> touch the edge up before it gets dull. for some specialty chisels I'll
>> go to a finer stone, but they cut pretty well at 600 grit.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know(or where to find) the equivalent grits between oil, water
> & ceramic stones, diamonds and sandpaper? Rod
>
I believe stones are all reported in CAMI terms, which is to say
grains/inch.
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Slightly harder feed, mostly. I'm still using the Systimatic 50
> tooth combo that came with my saw 12 years ago, never
> sharpened.
>
>
Either you don't do much wood working with that blade or will be in for a
treat when you do get it sharpened. I had that blade for about 12 years and
had it resharpened 4 or 5 times.
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:v9qDh.5889$Cr1.2445@trnddc08...
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
>> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
>> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
>> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only
>> tool that needs to be sharp.
>>
>> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
>> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
>> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
>> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>>
>> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
>> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
>> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>>
>> Just an observation.
>>
>> Mike
>>
> Because many do not know what a sharp chisel and/or how to achieve a
> sharp chisel. :-)
Back in the days before carbide blades became so prevalent, people said
always to cut your wood with a sharp blade. People also still remind us to
use sharp jointer blades because carbide blades are not very common.
Jim
On 22 Feb 2007 21:39:07 -0800, "Father Haskell" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Feb 22, 8:33 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...> On Feb 22, 6:56 pm, "Mike Dembroge"
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
>> >> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools.
>>
>> > Then you're not reading enough.
>>
>> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
>> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing to
>> be sharp?
>
>Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
>Shovels...
>
I think ya'll are missing Mike's point. What I am reading from his post
is that he does not disagree that tools need to be sharp, just that the way
articles are written, only chisels seem to be singled out and specifically
called out to be "sharp" chisels. What (as I read it) he doesn't see is an
article that uses the words, "with a SHARP scraper ... " or "with a SHARP
shovel ..."
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
[snip]
> With that I had to regrind the chisel back to good metal before moving on
> to Arkansas stones. He was getting inpatient while I restored the cutting
> edge and started kiddingly complaining that I was cutting into his work
> time! I reminded him that he damaged the chisel. To that he responded,
> "No, you did." I asked, "How do you figure that, you dropped it?" With a
> mischievous grin he said, "You're fixing it so you must have damaged it."
> Kids! ;~)
Kinda tough to argue that kind of logic ;-)
mike
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that whenever I read an article that describes using a chisel
> for something, the chisel always has to be "sharp"? "Clean out the
> mortise with a sharp chisel." "Square up the corners with a sharp
> chisel". Why does everyone, it seems, single out chisels as the only tool
> that needs to be sharp.
>
> I never see them say or write, "rip into strips on the table saw using a
> sharp blade." "Flatten the boards on the jointer using sharp knives.",
> "Run them through the planer with sharp knives installed.", "Use a block
> plane, with a sharp blade, to clean up the edges."
>
> It has always struck me as odd that writers and authors always mention
> "sharp" when discussing the use of chisels and not other tools. Is it
> really more important for a chisel to be sharp than any other tool?
>
> Just an observation.
>
> Mike
>
Because many do not know what a sharp chisel and/or how to achieve a sharp
chisel. :-)
Woodcraft puts that on their training descriptions. "Bring a sharp
gouge". I asked them why once, and they said that if they didn't say
that, people would bring dull ones.
Maybe it's because chisels and gouges are tools where the force on the
tip is generated by (or controlled by) your hand, instead of a motor?
Therefor, it makes a difference if it's dull - a motor can force a
dull saw blade through wood, but it's much harder for your hand to
force a dull chisel through wood.
Aren't dull chisels used for scraping paint, anyway? ;-)
You've never heard of sharpening a shovel? I thought that was common
knowledge.
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [snip]
>
> >> Really? Do you have an example of something in a recent article or
> >> publication where a tool, other than a chisel, was mentioned as needing
> >> to
> >> be sharp?
> >
> > Yes. Bench planes. Card scrapers. Files. Handsaws.
> > Shovels...
>
> Where in the world did you read something that said to dig the hole with a
> "sharp shovel"? That's truly amazing!
>
>
> > Hatchets. ESPECIALLY hatchets. They're not sharp enough
> > to bite, they glance, sometimes into pieces of meat belonging
> > to say, you. Jerry Garcia lost one finger this way. Tony
> > Iommi from Black Sabbath lost two.
> >
> > Doesn't leave much else besides hammers.
>
>