Since a number felt the original project was too easy for a class, how about
one of these two?
Bookcase -
http://www.diynet.com/diy/ww_materials_products/article/0,2049,DIY_14442_227
0134,00.html
Shelving Unit -
http://popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/furniture/1999/11/kids_furnitur
e_4/index.phtml
A couple of comments about the class for reference. There are about 12
people in the class (very beginner). Class is two hours a week for 5 weeks.
And the instructor recommended 4S wood - no planing or joining for the intro
class.
Thanks for the feedback.
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:SGC1d.8240$iS2.1053@trnddc09:
>
> The difference between s3s and s4s is that s4s is ripped to a specific
> width, generally on a table saw-like machine. Oh, and s3s is generally
> half the price the Lowe's gets for s4s.
Okay, I looked at a local lumber company price sheet and you're right - s3s
is about half the price of Lowes s4s (the s4s prices are about the same).
If I'm not looking to do any joining or planing, will I get a straight
enough cut from a TS on the s3s to make my own s4s pieces to work with? I'm
sure long-term when I have some more skills I'll go with s3s. But should I
try it for this beginner project/class? I'm supposed to be done in 5 weeks
time.
Thanks
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CY71d.6864$%O5.1982@trnddc07...
> Since a number felt the original project was too easy for a class, how
> about
> one of these two?
>
> Bookcase -
> http://www.diynet.com/diy/ww_materials_products/article/0,2049,DIY_14442_2270134,00.html
> A couple of comments about the class for reference. There are about 12
> people in the class (very beginner). Class is two hours a week for 5
> weeks.
> And the instructor recommended 4S wood - no planing or joining for the
> intro
> class.
This is better. The shelving unit is too big, IMO, for a class project.
Especially if you have to cart things back and forth. It also involves a
lot of repeat cuts for the divider, no real challenge.
The bookcase is a better learning tool. You get to use a router, countersink
screws and plug holes. (you can make your own matching plugs with a tool
from Lee Valley No. 05J0502)
My guess is that you will make it and enjoy it. Then a year or so later, you
will make another one from the same plans but much improved as you learn
different techniques. I've done that a few times.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Okay, sounds like I'll try the bookshelf for my class project.
My next big question is what to make it out of? Try using plywood and
either put on the glued edging or trim out the edges with a hardwood cap of
some kind? Or skip the plywood and use all hardwood?
Thanks
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CY71d.6864$%O5.1982@trnddc07...
> Since a number felt the original project was too easy for a class, how
about
> one of these two?
>
> Bookcase -
>
http://www.diynet.com/diy/ww_materials_products/article/0,2049,DIY_14442_227
> 0134,00.html
>
> Shelving Unit -
>
http://popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/furniture/1999/11/kids_furnitur
> e_4/index.phtml
>
> A couple of comments about the class for reference. There are about 12
> people in the class (very beginner). Class is two hours a week for 5
weeks.
> And the instructor recommended 4S wood - no planing or joining for the
intro
> class.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
>
A few more questions, if you don't mind.
The class is very intro for very beginners. Some of the people in the class
didn't even know what a jigsaw was. I like to think I'm a little ahead of
the class because of the amount of reading and research I've been doing
(though I haven't put anything into action). With that in mind, the
instructor recommended we buy s4s stock from Lowes - to keep the wood
selection, joining, and planing to a minimum, if not avoided entirely. So
I'm thinking about using s4s Red Oak for the project.
Questions
1) If the depth of the case will be 10" or 11", will it be best to join
three 4" boards or 4 3" boards? If so, would I be able to use simple butt
joints or should I look into a more advanced joint for the boards (biscuit -
don't have a biscuit jointer though, tenon, etc)?
2) What would you recommend for the bottom and/or shelving? For the bottom,
butt joint or cut a dado notch out in the side or attach a support bracket
around the case for the bottom to sit on? For the shelf, adjustable pins?
3) For the back, should I use the 3/4" ply or the thinner stuff?
4) Comments on trimming out the top edge with a little casing/molding to
dress it up? Maybe a casing of some sort around the bottom too? I'm
assuming this would be finish nailed if done.
Thanks, again.
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:M9r1d.5968$5t4.5529@trnddc01:
>
> > Okay, sounds like I'll try the bookshelf for my class project.
> >
> > My next big question is what to make it out of? Try using plywood and
> > either put on the glued edging or trim out the edges with a hardwood
> > cap of some kind? Or skip the plywood and use all hardwood?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> That's a good project for solid wood. I say that because you can't sand
> through the veneer on solid wood. You don't have as many things to trim
> with solid wood. And there are fewer fussy bits with cutting solid wood.
>
> You can find red oak, surfaced 3 sides, generally for about $3 per board
> foot. For a project in red oak veneer plywood, I would estimate $65-$80
> for a full sheet, even though you won't likely use all of it. And you'd
> still need some solid wood for the pieces that don't lend themselves to
> plywood.
>
> With the s3s, assuming you check it out closely in the wood rack, you
> should have little problem bringing it all to pretty close to the same
> thickness, even if you have to do a little leveling with a hand plane.
> Builds character, teaches useful skills. And you'll likely use the hand
> plane to get the edges ready to glue together. You would if you were
> building this in my shop, at least. No power jointer here - no room for
> one.
>
> Poplar, pine, soft maple, red alder, and some other woods I'm missing are
> good starter project woods. Inexpensive, easily worked, readily
available.
> Red oak is harder to work, particularly for a beginner, and white oak
> somewhat more challenging, and more expensive. Walnut and cherry are a
joy
> to work, but generally pricier, and not needed for a beginner. (You have
> to be Charlie Self to get a pickup load of figured, thick, air-dried
cherry
> for $75. But then, the universe may have been evening out for him, given
> the grief he's seen the last couple of years.)
>
> Ask your teacher where to purchase wood locally, and what he thinks about
> the proposed project. Most of them really want to help, and to see you
> succeed in the starter course.
>
> Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:CY71d.6864$%O5.1982@trnddc07:
> Since a number felt the original project was too easy for a class, how
> about one of these two?
>
> Bookcase -
> http://www.diynet.com/diy/ww_materials_products/article/0,2049,DIY_1444
> 2_227 0134,00.html
>
> Shelving Unit -
> http://popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/furniture/1999/11/kids_fur
> nitur e_4/index.phtml
>
> A couple of comments about the class for reference. There are about
> 12 people in the class (very beginner). Class is two hours a week for
> 5 weeks. And the instructor recommended 4S wood - no planing or
> joining for the intro class.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
Better choices.
Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:M9r1d.5968$5t4.5529@trnddc01:
> Okay, sounds like I'll try the bookshelf for my class project.
>
> My next big question is what to make it out of? Try using plywood and
> either put on the glued edging or trim out the edges with a hardwood
> cap of some kind? Or skip the plywood and use all hardwood?
>
> Thanks
>
That's a good project for solid wood. I say that because you can't sand
through the veneer on solid wood. You don't have as many things to trim
with solid wood. And there are fewer fussy bits with cutting solid wood.
You can find red oak, surfaced 3 sides, generally for about $3 per board
foot. For a project in red oak veneer plywood, I would estimate $65-$80
for a full sheet, even though you won't likely use all of it. And you'd
still need some solid wood for the pieces that don't lend themselves to
plywood.
With the s3s, assuming you check it out closely in the wood rack, you
should have little problem bringing it all to pretty close to the same
thickness, even if you have to do a little leveling with a hand plane.
Builds character, teaches useful skills. And you'll likely use the hand
plane to get the edges ready to glue together. You would if you were
building this in my shop, at least. No power jointer here - no room for
one.
Poplar, pine, soft maple, red alder, and some other woods I'm missing are
good starter project woods. Inexpensive, easily worked, readily available.
Red oak is harder to work, particularly for a beginner, and white oak
somewhat more challenging, and more expensive. Walnut and cherry are a joy
to work, but generally pricier, and not needed for a beginner. (You have
to be Charlie Self to get a pickup load of figured, thick, air-dried cherry
for $75. But then, the universe may have been evening out for him, given
the grief he's seen the last couple of years.)
Ask your teacher where to purchase wood locally, and what he thinks about
the proposed project. Most of them really want to help, and to see you
succeed in the starter course.
Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:SGC1d.8240$iS2.1053@trnddc09:
> A few more questions, if you don't mind.
>
> The class is very intro for very beginners. Some of the people in the
> class didn't even know what a jigsaw was. I like to think I'm a
> little ahead of the class because of the amount of reading and
> research I've been doing (though I haven't put anything into action).
> With that in mind, the instructor recommended we buy s4s stock from
> Lowes - to keep the wood selection, joining, and planing to a minimum,
> if not avoided entirely. So I'm thinking about using s4s Red Oak for
> the project.
The difference between s3s and s4s is that s4s is ripped to a specific
width, generally on a table saw-like machine. Oh, and s3s is generally
half the price the Lowe's gets for s4s.
> Questions
>
> 1) If the depth of the case will be 10" or 11", will it be best to
> join three 4" boards or 4 3" boards?
Either works. Three boards is just fine.
> If so, would I be able to use
> simple butt joints or should I look into a more advanced joint for the
> boards (biscuit - don't have a biscuit jointer though, tenon, etc)?
If we are talking about gluing up the side panels to make the 11" wide
stock, then edge gluing will be just fine. Biscuits don't add much here.
The glue is already at least as strong as the wood. Just get the edges
flat, straight and together.
> 2) What would you recommend for the bottom and/or shelving? For the
> bottom, butt joint or cut a dado notch out in the side or attach a
> support bracket around the case for the bottom to sit on? For the
> shelf, adjustable pins?
Dado, if you have access to the tools, and some instruction on how to use
them. There are many acceptable ways of attaching the bottom.
Adjustable pins work fine for the shelves.
>
> 3) For the back, should I use the 3/4" ply or the thinner stuff?
3/4" is pretty heavy, and only required if this shelf wil be hung on the
wall by its back. Thinner otherwise.
>
> 4) Comments on trimming out the top edge with a little casing/molding
> to dress it up? Maybe a casing of some sort around the bottom too?
> I'm assuming this would be finish nailed if done.
Sure. Why not? Make it look nice. It's your project. Put some of
yourself into it.
>
> Thanks, again.
You're welcome.
Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:M9r1d.5968$5t4.5529@trnddc01:
> Okay, sounds like I'll try the bookshelf for my class project.
Sounds like you are comfortable with your choice. Have fun with it.
I would like to make a suggestion, though. While the web can be helpful
when you are looking for 'inspiration' pieces or specific plans, I'd
suggest a trip to your local library the next time you go searching. Plant
yourself in front of the stacks somewhere around 684.08 on your Dewey
Decimal dial and take a gander. You might be surprised at how much is
available and how much easier it is to find.
~Jeff
in Memphis
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:e8G1d.2983$bj2.174@trnddc08:
> "patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in
> message
>
> If we are talking about gluing up the side panels to make the 11" wide
>> stock, then edge gluing will be just fine. Biscuits don't add much
>> here. The glue is already at least as strong as the wood. Just get
>> the edges flat, straight and together.
>
>
> How about the top, bottom, and shelf? If I use solid wood will edge
> joints over three boards suffice?
>
> Thanks, again.
>
>
>
>
As long as you are gluing with the grain parallel to each other, then yes.
When you get into cross grain situations, you need a more sophisticated
approach.
Patriarch
"Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:6IG1d.5078$xH1.4139@trnddc03:
>
> "patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:SGC1d.8240$iS2.1053@trnddc09:
>>
>> The difference between s3s and s4s is that s4s is ripped to a
>> specific width, generally on a table saw-like machine. Oh, and s3s
>> is generally half the price the Lowe's gets for s4s.
>
> Okay, I looked at a local lumber company price sheet and you're right
> - s3s is about half the price of Lowes s4s (the s4s prices are about
> the same). If I'm not looking to do any joining or planing, will I get
> a straight enough cut from a TS on the s3s to make my own s4s pieces
> to work with? I'm sure long-term when I have some more skills I'll go
> with s3s. But should I try it for this beginner project/class? I'm
> supposed to be done in 5 weeks time.
>
> Thanks
>
If the tablesaw cut isn't smooth enough (it often is), then 5 minutes with
a handplane will make it so. And the use of a handplane is a fundamental
skill that beginners should really know.
How else are you going to take three 4" boards and make a 10" or 11" glue-
up? Why cut off and waste the expensive 4th surface?
By the way, next year this time, this level of project will take you a
weekend, and you'll still get to see the game on TV.
Patriarch
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
If we are talking about gluing up the side panels to make the 11" wide
> stock, then edge gluing will be just fine. Biscuits don't add much here.
> The glue is already at least as strong as the wood. Just get the edges
> flat, straight and together.
How about the top, bottom, and shelf? If I use solid wood will edge joints
over three boards suffice?
Thanks, again.
Corey,
I think the bookcase would be a better choice due to size and types of
skills you will learn. The bookcase has you learning how to glue
multiple boards together to make wider pieces - this is an essential
skill if you want to make solid wood pieces (larger than a jewelry box
that is).
Good luck and have fun. The nice thing about woodworking is that you
can't make a mistake - it can be corrected or used for something else
like firewood ;-) Hopefully your class will stress safety skills, these
are critical to learn.
TWS
I haven't managed to follow your link; they wrap, and have defied my efforts
to fix.
My first project, also in a beginners woodworking class was:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~toller/Box.JPG
The box is put together with dovetails.
The inner box was made of wood recut on a bandsaw, and assembled with box
joints.
The top is a solid panel, relieved on a router table.
It taught a lot of skills pretty quickly.
No plans, but none are really needed.
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:50:42 GMT, "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A few more questions, if you don't mind.
>
>The class is very intro for very beginners. Some of the people in the class
>didn't even know what a jigsaw was. I like to think I'm a little ahead of
>the class because of the amount of reading and research I've been doing
>(though I haven't put anything into action). With that in mind, the
>instructor recommended we buy s4s stock from Lowes - to keep the wood
>selection, joining, and planing to a minimum, if not avoided entirely. So
>I'm thinking about using s4s Red Oak for the project.
>
>Questions
>
>1) If the depth of the case will be 10" or 11", will it be best to join
>three 4" boards or 4 3" boards? If so, would I be able to use simple butt
>joints or should I look into a more advanced joint for the boards (biscuit -
>don't have a biscuit jointer though, tenon, etc)?
Use a butt joint, it'll work fine. One tip no one has mentioned here
is that it might be a good idea to cut your shelves a little long
before you glue them up, and then you can trim the ends nice and flat
and square on the table saw if the joint slides a little when you
clamp it. If you cut them all right to length beforehand, and one of
the boards moves, your project is going to end up being a little
shorter than you had planned on.
>2) What would you recommend for the bottom and/or shelving? For the bottom,
>butt joint or cut a dado notch out in the side or attach a support bracket
>around the case for the bottom to sit on? For the shelf, adjustable pins?
For a bookshelf, a dado would probably be best. If you're
uncomfortable with that, you could just do the butt joint, and rip a
couple of boards to glue up under the bottom for extra support.
>3) For the back, should I use the 3/4" ply or the thinner stuff?
Thin is fine for the back- 3/4" would make that sucker really, really
heavy! I'd use 1/4", myself.
>4) Comments on trimming out the top edge with a little casing/molding to
>dress it up? Maybe a casing of some sort around the bottom too? I'm
>assuming this would be finish nailed if done.
It'd make it look a little classier, and finishing nails are pretty
easy to sink with a nail punch and then fill in with a little glue and
sawdust or wood putty.
>Thanks, again.
>
>
>"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Corey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:M9r1d.5968$5t4.5529@trnddc01:
>>
>> > Okay, sounds like I'll try the bookshelf for my class project.
>> >
>> > My next big question is what to make it out of? Try using plywood and
>> > either put on the glued edging or trim out the edges with a hardwood
>> > cap of some kind? Or skip the plywood and use all hardwood?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>>
>> That's a good project for solid wood. I say that because you can't sand
>> through the veneer on solid wood. You don't have as many things to trim
>> with solid wood. And there are fewer fussy bits with cutting solid wood.
>>
>> You can find red oak, surfaced 3 sides, generally for about $3 per board
>> foot. For a project in red oak veneer plywood, I would estimate $65-$80
>> for a full sheet, even though you won't likely use all of it. And you'd
>> still need some solid wood for the pieces that don't lend themselves to
>> plywood.
>>
>> With the s3s, assuming you check it out closely in the wood rack, you
>> should have little problem bringing it all to pretty close to the same
>> thickness, even if you have to do a little leveling with a hand plane.
>> Builds character, teaches useful skills. And you'll likely use the hand
>> plane to get the edges ready to glue together. You would if you were
>> building this in my shop, at least. No power jointer here - no room for
>> one.
>>
>> Poplar, pine, soft maple, red alder, and some other woods I'm missing are
>> good starter project woods. Inexpensive, easily worked, readily
>available.
>> Red oak is harder to work, particularly for a beginner, and white oak
>> somewhat more challenging, and more expensive. Walnut and cherry are a
>joy
>> to work, but generally pricier, and not needed for a beginner. (You have
>> to be Charlie Self to get a pickup load of figured, thick, air-dried
>cherry
>> for $75. But then, the universe may have been evening out for him, given
>> the grief he's seen the last couple of years.)
>>
>> Ask your teacher where to purchase wood locally, and what he thinks about
>> the proposed project. Most of them really want to help, and to see you
>> succeed in the starter course.
>>
>> Patriarch
>