"Mere hours after Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA) announced breathlessly at a
press conference that "we have found weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq," a FOX news reporter found out that Santorum was hyping a
document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions already
acknowledged and dismissed by the White House's Iraq Survey Group."
carl wrote:
> Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
> gases was located and also proof of
> another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
> and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
> all along.
John Flatley wrote:
> Brian or anyone,
>
> I heard that the Republicans claim they found WMD in
> Iraq, though it was from 1991. Then the Democrats said
> that the gas is leftover from the Gulf War, implying it
> was "stale."
>
> These press releases raise a few questions. Does Sarin
> or Mustard gas have a "shelf life" like milk? How long
> can these "packaged" gases be stored and still be
> dangerous or effective? Can you neutralize them? How?
Yes, they have a shelf life which largely depends on purity.
Mustard gas lasts a long time, caches left over from WWII
and munitions dumped at sea are still dangerous.
Sarin has a much shorter shelf life. During the Iran-Iraq
war Iraq shiiped weapons to the front to be used as soon
as possible. The iraqi chemical weapons, with the exception
of Mustard, were considered to be ineffective after five years.
They would not necessarily degrade to _complete_
harmlessness, you wouldn't want to bathe in the stuff.
The 1991 war destroyed the Iraqi manufacturing facilties
and there was never any evidence that iraq progressed beyond
bench scale thereafter.
During the Iran-Iraq war Iraq fired tens, if not hundreds of thousands
of chemical shells and dropped chemical bombs. A 'dud' rate
of 15% is considered typical of US munitions, one assumes that
the Iraqi munitions were no better. This means that there are
hundreds if not thousands of unexploded munitions, some of
them chemical munitions, on old battlefields or test ranges.
As a point of comparison, unexploded WW I munitions are still
discovered from time to time in France.
In general chemical weapons are destroyed by incineration
at high temperature. The nerve gas VX is destroyed by pouring
it onto a concrete pad where exposure ot sunlight and
oxygen repidly degrade it to harmlessness.
All of the chemical weapon discoveries in Iraq since the 2003
invasion fall into one of the following categories:
1) Previously fired shells probably recovered from
a battlefield or test range.
2) Unfilled shells or bombs, possibly manufacturing rejects,
discovered in landiflls or junk heaps.
3) False positive results with field test kits.
4) Iraqi chemical weapon test kits like those used by coalition forces.
(these contain small samples)
5) Material that Iraq had reported to UNMOVIC that had been tagged,
cataloged and was awaiting disposal when the US invaded.
6) Misidentified conventional military systems (e.g. the mobile
hydrogen trailers.)
None of these were weapons that were actually usable, though
in some cases the material inside was still potentially hazardous.
None were intentional violations of the restrictions as none were
found stored in a manner to suggest an attempt to preserve them.
Keep in mind that most poison 'gasses' are not gasses at all,
they are typically thick vicous liquids that have to be dipsersed in
an aerosal to be used.
Scott Ritter, a former US marine who worked for years as an
USCOM weapons inspector has written a few articles on the
subject. You can probably find them online.
The Duelfer report is also available online.
--
FF
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> >In general chemical weapons are destroyed by incineration
> >at high temperature. The nerve gas VX is destroyed by pouring
> >it onto a concrete pad where exposure ot sunlight and
> >oxygen repidly degrade it to harmlessness.
>
> Ummm.... no.
>
> VX _vapors_ are highly dangerous, and it's *never* allowed to be exposed to
> the atmosphere. It's destroyed by adding sodium hydroxide to break it down.
>
Probably we do.
In Iraq, it was reportedly destroyed as described. Possibly this
was AFTER adding sodium hydroxide. UNMOVIC reported
that degredation products were found on the cement slab where it
was supposedly destroyed, but could not verify the quantity.
--
FF
damian penney wrote:
> "Mere hours after Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA) announced breathlessly at a
> press conference that "we have found weapons of mass destruction in
> Iraq," a FOX news reporter found out that Santorum was hyping a
> document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions already
> acknowledged and dismissed by the White House's Iraq Survey Group."
>
>
> carl wrote:
>> Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
>> gases was located and also proof of
>> another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
>> and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
>> all along.
>
I'm not holding my breath waiting for an "oops" from Carl :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Fred,
Thanks for answering my questions.
John
--
There are three enemies of personal peace: regret over
yesterday's mistakes, anxiety over tomorrow's problems
and ingratitude for today's blessing.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| John Flatley wrote:
| > Brian or anyone,
| >
| > I heard that the Republicans claim they found WMD
in
| > Iraq, though it was from 1991. Then the Democrats
said
| > that the gas is leftover from the Gulf War,
implying it
| > was "stale."
| >
| > These press releases raise a few questions. Does
Sarin
| > or Mustard gas have a "shelf life" like milk? How
long
| > can these "packaged" gases be stored and still be
| > dangerous or effective? Can you neutralize them?
How?
|
| Yes, they have a shelf life which largely depends on
purity.
| Mustard gas lasts a long time, caches left over from
WWII
| and munitions dumped at sea are still dangerous.
|
| Sarin has a much shorter shelf life. During the
Iran-Iraq
| war Iraq shiiped weapons to the front to be used as
soon
| as possible. The iraqi chemical weapons, with the
exception
| of Mustard, were considered to be ineffective after
five years.
|
| They would not necessarily degrade to _complete_
| harmlessness, you wouldn't want to bathe in the
stuff.
|
| The 1991 war destroyed the Iraqi manufacturing
facilties
| and there was never any evidence that iraq progressed
beyond
| bench scale thereafter.
|
| During the Iran-Iraq war Iraq fired tens, if not
hundreds of thousands
| of chemical shells and dropped chemical bombs. A
'dud' rate
| of 15% is considered typical of US munitions, one
assumes that
| the Iraqi munitions were no better. This means that
there are
| hundreds if not thousands of unexploded munitions,
some of
| them chemical munitions, on old battlefields or test
ranges.
| As a point of comparison, unexploded WW I munitions
are still
| discovered from time to time in France.
|
| In general chemical weapons are destroyed by
incineration
| at high temperature. The nerve gas VX is destroyed by
pouring
| it onto a concrete pad where exposure ot sunlight and
| oxygen repidly degrade it to harmlessness.
|
| All of the chemical weapon discoveries in Iraq since
the 2003
| invasion fall into one of the following categories:
|
| 1) Previously fired shells probably recovered from
| a battlefield or test range.
|
| 2) Unfilled shells or bombs, possibly manufacturing
rejects,
| discovered in landiflls or junk heaps.
|
| 3) False positive results with field test kits.
|
| 4) Iraqi chemical weapon test kits like those used by
coalition forces.
| (these contain small samples)
|
| 5) Material that Iraq had reported to UNMOVIC that
had been tagged,
| cataloged and was awaiting disposal when the US
invaded.
|
| 6) Misidentified conventional military systems (e.g.
the mobile
| hydrogen trailers.)
|
| None of these were weapons that were actually usable,
though
| in some cases the material inside was still
potentially hazardous.
| None were intentional violations of the restrictions
as none were
| found stored in a manner to suggest an attempt to
preserve them.
|
| Keep in mind that most poison 'gasses' are not gasses
at all,
| they are typically thick vicous liquids that have to
be dipsersed in
| an aerosal to be used.
|
|
| Scott Ritter, a former US marine who worked for years
as an
| USCOM weapons inspector has written a few articles on
the
| subject. You can probably find them online.
|
| The Duelfer report is also available online.
|
| --
|
| FF
|
Hmm They charged Saddam with killing 146, so far Bush has caused the
massacred of 21000 American Soldiers Killed and Wounded and 40,000 Iraqi
Civilians killed
don't ya just hate that......
"david" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> and also proof of
>> another bunch yet to be located.
>
> So a bit like Santa then?
>
> I bet the dead civilians are jumping over hoops with relief. That's all
> okay then. Bushhhh and Bliar were right all along, it was ALL OF US who
> were outwitted. Darn it, don't ya just hate that?
>
> David
>
You know it's bad when Fox admits that Santorum was wrong...could it be that
he's desperately trying to get re-elected...? nah, couldn't be, only a truly
cynical, lying bastard would lie about finding weapons to try and prop up
his shrinking career.
John E.
"damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mere hours after Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA) announced breathlessly at a
> press conference that "we have found weapons of mass destruction in
> Iraq," a FOX news reporter found out that Santorum was hyping a
> document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions already
> acknowledged and dismissed by the White House's Iraq Survey Group."
>
>
> carl wrote:
> > Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
> > gases was located and also proof of
> > another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
> > and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
> > all along.
>
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:41:25 GMT, "carl" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
>gases was located and also proof of
>another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
>and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
>all along.
You mean 500 shells of degraded sarin and mustard gas that has been
sitting there since the first Gulf War and is now totally useless as a
weapon, right? We're still waiting for you to find all of the USABLE
WMDs that Bush and Cheney said they not only knew Saddam had and was
going to use, but they knew EXACTLY where it was.
Stop grasping at straws, Bush lied. Deal with it.
"Steve Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> and how many of the world's countries have similar weapons? how many have
> a
> means of delivery? how many should we invade? how many have major oil
> resources? This is a stupid factoid.
>
>
> "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> carl wrote:
>> > Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with
>> > poisonous
>> > gases was located and also proof of
>> > another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
>> > and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
>> > all along.
>>
>> source please...
>>
>
>
And this has WHAT??? to do with woodworking?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>In general chemical weapons are destroyed by incineration
>at high temperature. The nerve gas VX is destroyed by pouring
>it onto a concrete pad where exposure ot sunlight and
>oxygen repidly degrade it to harmlessness.
Ummm.... no.
VX _vapors_ are highly dangerous, and it's *never* allowed to be exposed to
the atmosphere. It's destroyed by adding sodium hydroxide to break it down.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Brian or anyone,
I heard that the Republicans claim they found WMD in
Iraq, though it was from 1991. Then the Democrats said
that the gas is leftover from the Gulf War, implying it
was "stale."
These press releases raise a few questions. Does Sarin
or Mustard gas have a "shelf life" like milk? How long
can these "packaged" gases be stored and still be
dangerous or effective? Can you neutralize them? How?
Thanks for any info...
John
"When you're my age, tomorrow is yesterday before you
even knew it was today." - stolen from Dennis the
Menace
--
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:41:25 GMT, "carl"
<[email protected]>
| wrote:
|
| >Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells
filled with poisonous
| >gases was located and also proof of
| >another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
| >and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
| >all along.
|
| You mean 500 shells of degraded sarin and mustard gas
that has been
| sitting there since the first Gulf War and is now
totally useless as a
| weapon, right? We're still waiting for you to find
all of the USABLE
| WMDs that Bush and Cheney said they not only knew
Saddam had and was
| going to use, but they knew EXACTLY where it was.
|
| Stop grasping at straws, Bush lied. Deal with it.
and how many of the world's countries have similar weapons? how many have a
means of delivery? how many should we invade? how many have major oil
resources? This is a stupid factoid.
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> carl wrote:
> > Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
> > gases was located and also proof of
> > another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
> > and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
> > all along.
>
> source please...
>
Sen Rick Santorum and another Senator (?) based on partial declassified
documents. Heard his statement on WABC Radio yesterday afternoon
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> carl wrote:
> > Todays news reveal a cache of 500 artillery shells filled with poisonous
> > gases was located and also proof of
> > another bunch yet to be located. Only dummyCRATS
> > and demoCROOKS deny that they have been there
> > all along.
>
> source please...
>