I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
causes and cures.
Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
doing -- hints?
Thx.
On 8/22/2013 9:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Mike M wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:12:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be
>>>>> getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some
>>>>> useful advice on causes and cures.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave
>>>>> edge on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's
>>>>> laid on edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a
>>>>> feather board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot
>>>>> (as best as i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade
>>>>> seems to be also - using the same method. What I've noticed is
>>>>> that the board creeps away from the fence after it is cut. I've
>>>>> tried putting pressure on the board so it's up against the fence
>>>>> as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help. The
>>>>> curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember
>>>>> having this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I
>>>>> need to start /stop doing -- hints?
>>>>> Thx.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not sure what
>>>> you can do to prevent it. I generally cut oversize and then run it
>>>> through the jointer/planer to true it up when I run into the problem
>>>> on a batch of lumber.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry - I can't see this as the problem when ripping 2 inch solid
>>> .. or plywood ..
>>> Seems like a blade/fence issue.
>>> jt
>>>
>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
>>
>> I wouldn't rule out a bad blade or bad arbor bearings. I'd start with
>> a good blade and go from there.
>>
>
> Yeahbut - he's got a Forrester.
Watt's a Subaru got to do with anything?
Unless his wife sat on it, or he backed
> over it with his truck, you just don't get much better than that. I think
> it's all in the fence. I suspect it is not parallel to the blade. I
> suspect that a lot.
>
What do I need to start /stop
>
> doing -- hints?
>
> Thx.
This is a problem with the equipment if you are keeping the boad against the fence during the cut. Blade is flexing or more likely trunion\motor mount is flexing because of something loose, bad\weak design, worn bearing, etc.
Physics dictates that if you keep the board against the fence not much else matters to get a straight cut. Not necessarily parallel to the edge but at least straight.
Something is flexing\moving and the distance between the blade and fence is changing through the span of the cut.
>
>>I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>>dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
>>causes and cures.
>>
>>Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
>>both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
>>the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
>>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>>method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
>>after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
>>against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
>>The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
>>this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
>>doing -- hints?
>>Thx.
> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not sure what
>you can do to prevent it. I generally cut oversize and then run it
>through the jointer/planer to true it up when I run into the problem
>on a batch of lumber.
Sorry - I can't see this as the problem when ripping 2 inch solid
.. or plywood ..
Seems like a blade/fence issue.
jt
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/20/2013 8:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> ;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should be
>> parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
>>
>> What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a possibility.
>>
>> Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along its
>> length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and bottom sides
>> of the material?
>>
>> Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
>> especially if it is not sharp.
>>
>> Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after being
>> cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
>>
>> My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
>> giving you problems.
>
> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
> "think kerf blade" What is it.
Thin about it a little while.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:13:35 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
>>> "think kerf blade" What is it.
>>
>> Thin about it a little while.
>
> Boooo! Hisss!
:-)
"ts" wrote:
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be
> getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
> advice on
> causes and cures.
>
> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge
> on
> both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on
> edge on
> the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
> splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can
> tell with
> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the
> same
> method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the
> fence
> after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
> against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems
> to help.
> The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember
> having
> this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to
> start /stop
> doing -- hints?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a set up problem to me.
If you are working alone is work piece fully supported by runout
table(s) during cut?
The following assumes that trunnion provides a parallel blade mounting
surface to miter slot.
1- Make sure your blade is parallel to miter slot on T/S.
2- Make sure your fence is parallel to miter slot on T/S.
3- Make sure your blade is perpendicular to the table.
4- Make sure the splitter is working properly and INSTALLED.
All these tests can be performed using an inexpensive dial indicator
and some home made jigs.
Good luck and have fun.
Lew
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 8/20/2013 8:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> ;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should
>>> be parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
>>>
>>> What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a
>>> possibility.
>>>
>>> Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along
>>> its length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and
>>> bottom sides of the material?
>>>
>>> Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
>>> especially if it is not sharp.
>>>
>>> Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after
>>> being cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
>>>
>>> My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
>>> giving you problems.
>>
>> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
>> "think kerf blade" What is it.
> Roughly speaking, "kerf" refers to the thickness of the saw blade. One
> may be able to cut faster with a "thin kerf" blade or make due with a
> less powerful saw by using thin kerf blades. They are, of course, more
> flexible. Based on my very limited experience, this is a big negative,
> and I'm not planning to purchase any more thin kerf blades unless the
> application calls for it (cutting veneer or similar).
>
> Bill
>
>
That's a "thin kerf blade", but what is a "think kerf blade"? ;-)
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
"ts" wrote:
> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of
> parallel with
> the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I adjust
> the fence
> to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least
> in my
> thinking.
---------------------------------------------
You are in the "close but no cigar" area.
---------------------------------------------
> I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done on my sliding
> miter saw.
------------------------------------------------
Accuracy must no be very high on your list.
No way does a sliding miter saw compete with a properly set up T/S.
---------------------------------------------------
> I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a
> real
> pain.
-----------------------------------------------
Well yes but what that have to do with anything?
--------------------------------------------------
Let's start over.
Get a piece of MDF, anything from 1/2"-3/4" thick.
Cut a 10" x 10" piece, then drill a 5/8" dia hole centered in the
middle.
Use this MDF piece as the flat test blank and insert it onto blade
spindle.
Repeat dial gage measurement front and back, then get back to us.
Lew
On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:59:31 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>>method.
>
>I'd confirm that the square is really square. Even the slightest
>outage on the square will magnify on a blade and even more so on a
>fence.
I'd also add that situations like these are where you really want to
have a decent fixed square on hand. Worth every penny when you want
something to be accurate.
On 8/30/2013 9:35 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 8/30/2013 9:26 PM, ts wrote:
>> ts <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>>> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
>>> advice on causes and cures.
>>>
>>> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge
>>> on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on
>>> edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather
>>> board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as
>>> i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also -
>>> using the same method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away
>>> from the fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the
>>> board so it's up against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing
>>> I've tried seems to help. The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and
>>> larger. I don't remember having this problem earlier in my
>>> woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
>>> Thx.
>>>
>>
>> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of parallel
>> with
>> the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I adjust the
>> fence
>> to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least in my
>> thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done on my sliding
>> miter saw.
>>
>> I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a real
>> pain.
>>
>
> I do not quite understand what you found. You say the blade is 0.02
> ??Inches?? out of parallel with the miter slot. Then you say it is
> further out with the ??Backside??
>
> For discussion I define the Front the side, as the side of the blade
> closes to you when you look at the thin side of the blade. Back side the
> one furthest away from you.
>
> If it is parallel the front side of the blade and the back side should
> be the same distance from the mitre slot. As I read what you have
> written there is a difference of 0.02??inches?? between the front and
> the back.
>
> __________________________________________________________ Slot
>
> Back of blade __________________________ front of blade
>
> Blade
>
>
> Your comment about the backside is confusing.
>
> To do it accurately an absolutely flat disk should be attached as a
> blade on the arbor. In this way the set of the teeth will not confuse
> the measurements.
>
>
Actually you can mark a blade tip measure that tip with the tip at the
front or back of the table opening and then rotate the blade so that
that same marked tip is in the opposite location.
Just make certain you use the same blade tooth tip.
On 8/30/2013 8:26 PM, ts wrote:
> ts <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
>> advice on causes and cures.
>>
>> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge
>> on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on
>> edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather
>> board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as
>> i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also -
>> using the same method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away
>> from the fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the
>> board so it's up against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing
>> I've tried seems to help. The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and
>> larger. I don't remember having this problem earlier in my
>> woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
>> Thx.
>>
>
> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of parallel with
> the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I adjust the fence
> to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least in my
> thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done on my sliding
> miter saw.
>
> I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a real
> pain.
>
Yes it is a pain but you have a problem, and that is how you remedy it.
Set your saw up correctly and your TS will be more accurate than your
Slider.
In article <[email protected]>, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> says...
> That's a "thin kerf blade", but what is a "think kerf blade"? ;-)
I thought it was a pretty good typo.
Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 8/20/2013 4:53 PM, ts wrote:
>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be
>> getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some
>> useful advice on causes and cures.
>
> All the suggestions you will get forget to ask the one question:
>
> What table saw are we talking about ?
> With what fence ?
>
> It sounds like a machine setup issue but knowing what saw, makes
> a world of difference in the answer(s).
It's a Delta contractors saw (circa 1992) with a shop fox (cheap
upgrade) fence. I have a buddy coming over tonight so I'll get him to try
it. I've also thought about the blade -- it's a Forrestt. I believe I've
tried the Delta supplied blade with the same results.
I like the flex idea since the saw is old. Don't they last forever :).
Maybe it's time i can talk to my SO into a Sawstop.
4 close misses - they were small accidents. although with the last one
immeadiate care did have to call the surgeon in to suture my thumb by the
nail and nail bed. The tech, about my son's age, said "you're probably
going to be like my dad and go back home and continue working. Aren't
you?" :)
[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:53:17 GMT, ts <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>>dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
>>causes and cures.
>>
>>Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
>>both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
>>the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
>>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>>method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
>>after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
>>against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
>>The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
>>this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
>>doing -- hints?
>>Thx.
> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it.
No, that's not the problem. It [apparently] happens every time, including when he cuts
plywood, which clearly points to a problem either with setup and alignment, or with
technique. Surely not *all* of the wood that he rips is stressed in the same manner and
orientation!
Mike M <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I wouldn't rule out a bad blade or bad arbor bearings. I'd start with
> a good blade and go from there.
Maybe so... but it sounds like an alignment issue to me. The first steps I'd take, in order, are:
1. Ensure the miter slot is parallel to the blade.
2. Ensure the fence is parallel to the miter slot.
3. Ensure the splitter is parallel to, and centered on, the blade.
If the problem still exists, then I'd look next at the blade, then at the arbor bearings (as
indicated by axial runout on the blade).
Another thing worth looking at, perhaps: if this is a thin-kerf blade, maybe the splitter is
thicker than the kerf, and is pulling the wood to one side? The wood should not (quite) touch
the splitter on a rip cut.
ts <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
> advice on causes and cures.
>
> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge
> on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on
> edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather
> board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as
> i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also -
> using the same method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away
> from the fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the
> board so it's up against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing
> I've tried seems to help. The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and
> larger. I don't remember having this problem earlier in my
> woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
> Thx.
>
An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of parallel with
the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I adjust the fence
to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least in my
thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done on my sliding
miter saw.
I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a real
pain.
On 8/21/2013 11:22 AM, tom wrote:
>
> "ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
>> advice on
>> causes and cures.
>>
>> The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>> method.
>
> Make sure the blade is parallel to the fence rather than the slot by
> measuring the leading edge of the blade and the trailing edge in
> relation to the fence.
>
>
FWIW you do actually want the fence parallel to the blade. Having said
that make that adjustment AFTER making the slot parallel to the blade.
If the fence is made parallel to the blade before making the slot
parallel to the blade this will all be lost after making the slot
parallel to the blade. Yuo want the miter gauge to slide parallel to
the blade also. Adjusting the slot in most all cases throws off a
previous fence adjustment.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:13:35 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
>> "think kerf blade" What is it.
>
>Thin about it a little while.
Boooo! Hisss!
On 8/20/2013 6:53 PM, ts wrote:
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
> causes and cures.
>
> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
> both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
> the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
> splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
> method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
> after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
> against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
> The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
> this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
> doing -- hints?
> Thx.
>
I do not know anything, but if it happened to me, I would change the
blade. I believe that the blade is more dull on one side than it is on
the other, causing a twist in the blade as you cut.
On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:53:17 GMT, ts <[email protected]> wrote:
>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>method.
I'd confirm that the square is really square. Even the slightest
outage on the square will magnify on a blade and even more so on a
fence.
In article <[email protected]>,
ts <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
>causes and cures.
>
>Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
>both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
>the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
>after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
>against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
>The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
>this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
>doing -- hints?
>Thx.
Sounds like your blade is just slightly out of parallel with the fence
when ripping. Think about cutting a cove on the tables saw and you can
visualize how the edge becomes slightly concave.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.
Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
On 8/20/2013 8:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>
> ;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should be
> parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
>
> What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a possibility.
>
> Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along its
> length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and bottom sides
> of the material?
>
> Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
> especially if it is not sharp.
>
> Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after being
> cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
>
> My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
> giving you problems.
I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
"think kerf blade" What is it.
Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 8/20/2013 8:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> ;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should be
>> parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
>>
>> What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a possibility.
>>
>> Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along its
>> length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and bottom sides
>> of the material?
>>
>> Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
>> especially if it is not sharp.
>>
>> Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after being
>> cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
>>
>> My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
>> giving you problems.
>
> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
> "think kerf blade" What is it.
Roughly speaking, "kerf" refers to the thickness of the saw blade. One
may be able to cut faster with a "thin kerf" blade or make due with a
less powerful saw by using thin kerf blades. They are, of course, more
flexible. Based on my very limited experience, this is a big negative,
and I'm not planning to purchase any more thin kerf blades unless the
application calls for it (cutting veneer or similar).
Bill
"ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
> causes and cures.
No square is accurate enough, imho. Use a very straight sharp edged
straight edge at least the width of the saw hold it against a and a blade
with absolutely no wobble. Thousandths count. Take a steel rule with
64thson it and adjust the table with the miter slot and straightedge to
within half a 64th. Once done, this adjustment should hold for a very long
time.
Now, line up the rip fence to the miter slot. Make sure it is straight
and NOT SLIPPING. Set the darn measuring pointer gauge while you are at it!
;-)
jim in nc
Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2013 8:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> ;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should
>>>> be parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
>>>>
>>>> What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a
>>>> possibility.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along
>>>> its length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and
>>>> bottom sides of the material?
>>>>
>>>> Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
>>>> especially if it is not sharp.
>>>>
>>>> Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after
>>>> being cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
>>>>
>>>> My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
>>>> giving you problems.
>>> I thought I knew a little about saws but then saw your reference to a
>>> "think kerf blade" What is it.
>> Roughly speaking, "kerf" refers to the thickness of the saw blade. One
>> may be able to cut faster with a "thin kerf" blade or make due with a
>> less powerful saw by using thin kerf blades. They are, of course, more
>> flexible. Based on my very limited experience, this is a big negative,
>> and I'm not planning to purchase any more thin kerf blades unless the
>> application calls for it (cutting veneer or similar).
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
> That's a "thin kerf blade", but what is a "think kerf blade"? ;-)
>
> Puckdropper
Everyone's a comedian!
"ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and
> must be getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real
> and I'd like some useful advice on causes and cures.
>
> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a
> concave edge on both solid and plywood. The curve is
> noticable when it's laid on edge on the table saw table.
> I've tried with and without a feather board and splitter.
> The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can
> tell with an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be
> also - using the same method.
> What I've noticed is that
> the board creeps away from the fence after it is cut.
The fence isn't square to the blade, back end of the fence is farther away.
Try cutting a board and clamping the offcut to the table without moving it.
Lower the blade, move the fence to the offcut's edge and adjust it to be
parallel with the offcut.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Bill wrote:
> Everyone's a comedian!
It's something in the air this week...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:53:17 GMT, ts <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and
> > must be getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real
> > and I'd like some useful advice on causes and cures.
> >
> > Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a
> > concave edge on both solid and plywood. The curve is
> > noticable when it's laid on edge on the table saw
> > table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
> > splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as
> > best as i can tell with an adjustable square) and the
> > blade seems to be also - using the same method. What
> > I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the
> > fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on
> > the board so it's up against the fence as it enters the
> > blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help. The curve is
> > noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember
> > having this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby.
> > What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
> > Thx.
> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not
> sure what you can do to prevent it. I generally cut
> oversize and then run it through the jointer/planer to
> true it up when I run into the problem on a batch of
> lumber.
He said it happens with plywood too.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 8/21/2013 6:21 AM, phorbin wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> says...
>
>
>> That's a "thin kerf blade", but what is a "think kerf blade"? ;-)
>
>
> I thought it was a pretty good typo.
>
Combined with the Parallel square problem, so did I.
There were so many serious answers to my questions, I think I understand
how these discussion can go on forever. People are answering what they
think was written not what was written.
"ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
> causes and cures.
>
> The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
> method.
Make sure the blade is parallel to the fence rather than the slot by
measuring the leading edge of the blade and the trailing edge in relation to
the fence.
On 8/20/2013 4:53 PM, ts wrote:
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
> causes and cures.
All the suggestions you will get forget to ask the one question:
What table saw are we talking about ?
With what fence ?
It sounds like a machine setup issue but knowing what saw, makes
a world of difference in the answer(s).
On 8/21/2013 3:42 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/21/2013 11:22 AM, tom wrote:
>>
>> "ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>>> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
>>> advice on
>>> causes and cures.
>>>
>>> The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>>> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>>> method.
>>
>> Make sure the blade is parallel to the fence rather than the slot by
>> measuring the leading edge of the blade and the trailing edge in
>> relation to the fence.
>>
>>
>
>
> FWIW you do actually want the fence parallel to the blade. Having said
> that make that adjustment AFTER making the slot parallel to the blade.
> If the fence is made parallel to the blade before making the slot
> parallel to the blade this will all be lost after making the slot
> parallel to the blade. Yuo want the miter gauge to slide parallel to
> the blade also. Adjusting the slot in most all cases throws off a
> previous fence adjustment.
There are some table saws that you must first make the blade parallel to
the slot. The principal part of these saws is the cast iron table.
The slots are machined in and are not adjustable.
With these saws both fence and the blade must be parallel to the slot.
Once every thing is parallel, the miter gauge can be squared by putting
into the slot and pushing it against the edge of the table.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:22:30 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> Once every thing is parallel, the miter gauge can be squared by putting
> into the slot and pushing it against the edge of the table.
I've seen some pretty rough cast iron table edges :-). Perhaps the old
cut a board and flip one half over trick might work better in those cases.
And I always do the squaring process by squaring the blade to the slot,
and then the fence to the slot. Voila! - the blade is parallel to the
fence.
But if you tend to use either slot as seems best, be sure the slots are
parallel to each other. DAMHIKT.
--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.
On 8/21/2013 8:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:22:30 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> Once every thing is parallel, the miter gauge can be squared by putting
>> into the slot and pushing it against the edge of the table.
>
> I've seen some pretty rough cast iron table edges :-). Perhaps the old
> cut a board and flip one half over trick might work better in those cases.
>
> And I always do the squaring process by squaring the blade to the slot,
> and then the fence to the slot. Voila! - the blade is parallel to the
> fence.
>
> But if you tend to use either slot as seems best, be sure the slots are
> parallel to each other. DAMHIKT.
>
It works on my 1969 10 inch Craftsman table saw.
I do all of my high tech alignment witt a 10 inch solid triangle and the
saws cast iron table. The triangle was about $10 and checked for
accuracy using the table slots.
ts wrote:
>
> 4 close misses - they were small accidents. although with the last one
> immeadiate care did have to call the surgeon in to suture my thumb by the
> nail and nail bed.
Did you deduce anything that helps make a 5th or 6th "small accident"
seem unlikely?
I'm on the side that is hoping you did (like everyone else here, I believe).
Bill
On 8/21/2013 4:49 PM, ts wrote:
> It's a Delta contractors saw (circa 1992) with a shop fox (cheap
> upgrade) fence. I have a buddy coming over tonight so I'll get him to try
> it. I've also thought about the blade -- it's a Forrestt. I believe I've
> tried the Delta supplied blade with the same results.
Contractor saw are famous for getting knocked out of alignment.
They can also be a stone cold bitch to get back in alignment.
Are you familiar with the process of setting up the alignment ?
Here is a thread on the subject:
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/power-tools-and-machinery/adjusting-delta-contractor-saw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9OeVk8-Y3M which is a excellent way
to learn how with Jerry Cole who is the guy who has been selling
the Dooby table saw jig for years at woodworking shows.
http://www.amazon.com/PALS-CTS-alignment-kit-16/dp/B0036B4OFW
Mike M wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:12:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be
>>>> getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some
>>>> useful advice on causes and cures.
>>>>
>>>> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave
>>>> edge on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's
>>>> laid on edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a
>>>> feather board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot
>>>> (as best as i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade
>>>> seems to be also - using the same method. What I've noticed is
>>>> that the board creeps away from the fence after it is cut. I've
>>>> tried putting pressure on the board so it's up against the fence
>>>> as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help. The
>>>> curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember
>>>> having this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I
>>>> need to start /stop doing -- hints?
>>>> Thx.
>>
>>
>>> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not sure what
>>> you can do to prevent it. I generally cut oversize and then run it
>>> through the jointer/planer to true it up when I run into the problem
>>> on a batch of lumber.
>>
>>
>> Sorry - I can't see this as the problem when ripping 2 inch solid
>> .. or plywood ..
>> Seems like a blade/fence issue.
>> jt
>>
>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
>
> I wouldn't rule out a bad blade or bad arbor bearings. I'd start with
> a good blade and go from there.
>
Yeahbut - he's got a Forrester. Unless his wife sat on it, or he backed
over it with his truck, you just don't get much better than that. I think
it's all in the fence. I suspect it is not parallel to the blade. I
suspect that a lot.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 8/22/2013 9:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>> Yeahbut - he's got a Forrester.
>
>
> Watt's a Subaru got to do with anything?
>
Oops...
Type... Don't think... Hit SEND...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9OeVk8-Y3M which is a excellent way
>> to learn how with Jerry Cole who is the guy who has been selling
>> the Dooby table saw jig for years at woodworking shows.
A small correction...that is a "Dubby Jig" not a "Dooby Jig".
and a suggestion for a alignment tool.
Look at this product:
http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsalignerjr.htm
and his suggestions:
On 8/30/2013 9:26 PM, ts wrote:
> ts <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful
>> advice on causes and cures.
>>
>> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge
>> on both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on
>> edge on the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather
>> board and splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as
>> i can tell with an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also -
>> using the same method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away
>> from the fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the
>> board so it's up against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing
>> I've tried seems to help. The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and
>> larger. I don't remember having this problem earlier in my
>> woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
>> Thx.
>>
>
> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of parallel with
> the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I adjust the fence
> to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least in my
> thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done on my sliding
> miter saw.
>
> I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a real
> pain.
>
I do not quite understand what you found. You say the blade is 0.02
??Inches?? out of parallel with the miter slot. Then you say it is
further out with the ??Backside??
For discussion I define the Front the side, as the side of the blade
closes to you when you look at the thin side of the blade. Back side the
one furthest away from you.
If it is parallel the front side of the blade and the back side should
be the same distance from the mitre slot. As I read what you have
written there is a difference of 0.02??inches?? between the front and
the back.
__________________________________________________________ Slot
Back of blade __________________________ front of blade
Blade
Your comment about the backside is confusing.
To do it accurately an absolutely flat disk should be attached as a
blade on the arbor. In this way the set of the teeth will not confuse
the measurements.
ts wrote:
> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out of parallel
> with the mitre slot back side is further out. Theortically if I
> adjust the fence to be almost parallel to the blade rip cuts should
> be ok, at least in my thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts
> are done on my sliding miter saw.
>
> I think trying to get the blade parallel with the slot would be a real
> pain.
.020 is a lot to be out. Most of us try for under .004. (At least I
believe that's what I was told when I first undertook to align my
Craftsman). Getting the blade parallel is a bit of work, depending on what
type of saw you have. Contractor saws typically have the the trundle bolted
to the underside of the table which means you have to remove the table from
the body of the saw. Often, the mounting flats where the bolts secure the
trundle to the table are not machined perfectly flat, so you have to be
careful when tightening them down after making adjustments, or the trundle
will shift. Since we're talking only a couple of thousanths here, any shift
is going to be too much shift. It's not as bad a job as you may think, but
it does take attention to detail, check, re-check, re-check, etc. to ensure
that you end up with a properly aligned blade. That's a good time to clean
up all the threads for the tilt and the raise/lower as well, since
everything is accessable.
You'd probably spend a couple of hours going the full route. Since you're
just going to rip - I'd do just as you suggest above and just align the
fence to the blade. I'd try really hard for dead-nut, and settle for a thou
or two. I believe conventional wisdom around here is that anything over
.004 is going to start showing problems for you. It should be easy enough
to bring your fence in perfectly - much less effort than aligning the blade.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
> To do it accurately an absolutely flat disk should be attached as a
> blade on the arbor. In this way the set of the teeth will not confuse
> the measurements.
Good point. There's YouTube videos on this stuff, but most of us mark a
tooth with a sharpie and rotate that tooth to both positions (front and
back), so we're always measuring off of the same tooth.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"ts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> ts <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and
> > must be getting dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real
> > and I'd like some useful advice on causes and cures.
> >
> > Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a
> > concave edge on both solid and plywood. The curve is
> > noticable when it's laid on edge on the table saw
> > table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
> > splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as
> > best as i can tell with an adjustable square) and the
> > blade seems to be also - using the same method. What
> > I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the
> > fence after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on
> > the board so it's up against the fence as it enters the
> > blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help. The curve is
> > noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember
> > having this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby.
> > What do I need to start /stop doing -- hints?
> > Thx.
> >
>
> An update -- I got a dial indicator. The blade is .02 out
> of parallel with the mitre slot back side is further out.
> Theortically if I adjust the fence to be almost parallel
> to the blade rip cuts should be ok, at least in my
> thinking. I only rip on the tablesaw, crosscuts are done
> on my sliding miter saw.
It certainly would be a good thing to correct but I don't think 1/50 out is
the cause of your problem.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 8/20/2013 6:53 PM, ts wrote:
> I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
> dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
> causes and cures.
>
> Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
> both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
> the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
> splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
> an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
> method.
;~) Well hopefully your fence is not square to the slot, it should be
parallel. But that is probably what you meant.
What condition is your saw in? Could worn bearings be a possibility.
Secondly you mention that the edge is concave, is that bowed along its
length or is the middle of the cut deeper than the top and bottom sides
of the material?
Are you using a think kerf blade? If it is a very likely culprit
especially if it is not sharp.
Are you buying quality lumber? Case hardened wood will bow after being
cut although this does not explain the problem with plywood.
My first guess is that you are using a think kerf blade and that is
giving you problems.
What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
> after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
> against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
> The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
> this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
> doing -- hints?
> Thx.
>
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:15:55 -0700, Pat Barber <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 8/21/2013 4:49 PM, ts wrote:
>> It's a Delta contractors saw (circa 1992) with a shop fox (cheap
>> upgrade) fence. I have a buddy coming over tonight so I'll get him to try
>> it. I've also thought about the blade -- it's a Forrestt. I believe I've
>> tried the Delta supplied blade with the same results.
>
>Contractor saw are famous for getting knocked out of alignment.
>
>They can also be a stone cold bitch to get back in alignment.
>
>Are you familiar with the process of setting up the alignment ?
>
>Here is a thread on the subject:
>
>http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/power-tools-and-machinery/adjusting-delta-contractor-saw
>
>and
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9OeVk8-Y3M which is a excellent way
>to learn how with Jerry Cole who is the guy who has been selling
>the Dooby table saw jig for years at woodworking shows.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/PALS-CTS-alignment-kit-16/dp/B0036B4OFW
>
Check out Dave Woolands tips at the "saw shop".
This one in particular:
http://store.thesawshop.com/catalogue/docs/tune-up.pdf
When Dave sets up a saw, it is PERFECT. He can make even a rough saw
work very well (as long as it's not worn out)
>
>
>
>
>
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:12:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>>>I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>>>dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
>>>causes and cures.
>>>
>>>Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
>>>both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
>>>the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
>>>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>>>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>>>method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
>>>after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
>>>against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
>>>The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
>>>this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
>>>doing -- hints?
>>>Thx.
>
>
>> The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not sure what
>>you can do to prevent it. I generally cut oversize and then run it
>>through the jointer/planer to true it up when I run into the problem
>>on a batch of lumber.
>
>
> Sorry - I can't see this as the problem when ripping 2 inch solid
> .. or plywood ..
>Seems like a blade/fence issue.
> jt
>
>--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
I wouldn't rule out a bad blade or bad arbor bearings. I'd start with
a good blade and go from there.
Mike M
On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:53:17 GMT, ts <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've been woodworking for quite a while (20+years) and must be getting
>dumber. This sounds crazy but it's real and I'd like some useful advice on
>causes and cures.
>
>Lately when I rip I end up with the good piece having a concave edge on
>both solid and plywood. The curve is noticable when it's laid on edge on
>the table saw table. I've tried with and without a feather board and
>splitter. The fence is square to the miter slot (as best as i can tell with
>an adjustable square) and the blade seems to be also - using the same
>method. What I've noticed is that the board creeps away from the fence
>after it is cut. I've tried putting pressure on the board so it's up
>against the fence as it enters the blade. Nothing I've tried seems to help.
>The curve is noticable on ~2' pieces and larger. I don't remember having
>this problem earlier in my woodworking hobby. What do I need to start /stop
>doing -- hints?
>Thx.
The stress is coming out of the wood when you cut it. Not sure what
you can do to prevent it. I generally cut oversize and then run it
through the jointer/planer to true it up when I run into the problem
on a batch of lumber.