Hi all.
This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
"sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
of ongoing maintenance.
My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
(or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
installed.
Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
Thanks again!
/adam
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all.
>
> This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
> in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
> series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
>
> I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
> built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
> light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
> with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
> "sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
> water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
>
> We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
> siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
> for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
> picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
> just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
> of ongoing maintenance.
>
> My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
> at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
> the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
> hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
> or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
> (or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
> perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
> over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
> on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
> paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
> installed.
>
> Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
>
> So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
> Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
> asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
> hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
> reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> /adam
>
I'd second the Cedar
Dave
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todd wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all.
> >
> > This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
> > in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
> > series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
> >
> > I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
> > built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
> > light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
> > with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
> > "sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
> > water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
> >
> > We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
> > siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
> > for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
> > picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
> > just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
> > of ongoing maintenance.
> >
> > My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
> > at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
> > the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
> > hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
> > or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
> > (or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
> > perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
> > over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
> > on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
> > paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
> > installed.
> >
> > Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
> >
> > So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
> > Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
> > asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
> > hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
> > reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
> >
> > Thanks again!
> >
> > /adam
>
> I realize that this response might be considered non-responsive, but are you
> married to wood siding? You might consider the fiber-cement siding, such as
> the kind manufactured by the James Hardie company
> http://www.jameshardie.com/ . It can be made with a wood texture and can
> come pre-finished.
Gee, for a lot of purported wood butchers, you guys sure seem ready to
turn your backs on it! ;)
Hardie makes various types of fiber cement siding. Their stucco board
fooled my stucco guy at first. It comes in 4x8, 4x9 and 4x10 sheets,
goes up quickly and takes paint beautifully (hangs on to the paint
beautifully, too). You'll have to deal with the seams between panels,
which isn't a big deal. I usually just cover them with some 3 1/2"
wide pieces of Hardie soffit material, nailed and construction
adhesive. If it's a deluxe job, I'll use the soffit material to make
patterns out of the battens and give it a half-timbered look.
R
[email protected] wrote:
> Yes, we've looked at Hardie siding. It's a serious contender for the
> stucco "infill" portion of the project skin, but we'd still like to
> have real wood for the major surfaces if budget and maintenance allow.
i still think cedar is your best bet. in spite of what a previous
poster said, , it will not turn black, unless water splashes on it and
is in a damp environment. it will eventually weather to a beautiful
silver grey. take a look at some cedar shake roofs. they don't turn
black.
I occasionally teach seminars on green building-- I'm a college prof
--and given the OPs desire for a "sustainable" building I wouldn't
recommend any of the wood options being discussed. Wood just doesn't
make sense in green applications like this unless it's locally sourced
AND from a sustainably managed forest or reclaimed stock. I'd also
recommend a fiber cement product; I'm partial to the Certainteed
"weatherboard" product myself, which is available pre-finished. There
are some issues with the embodied energy and CO2 impacts of concrete in
general, but a product of this nature will last 50 years and won't
require nearly the maintenance of cedar.
FWIW, Certainteed makes a "stucco" product in sheets, as well as a very
nice looking board-and-batten design as well as traditional lap siding.
-kiwanda
"Pat Barber"
> Untreated/unfinished western red cedar will turn black and
> look like hell after a few months/years....
>
> Hardi Plank is your friend and requires very little in
> the way of maintenance.
Cedar lasted on my roof, untreated for 30+ years. Never turned black.
Dave
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I used untreated cedar shingles 30 years ago on a house that turned
brown to gray on different sided of house depending on sun, shade, wind
drying the rain water.I left that house10 years ago. My new house house
i built 20 years ago I dipped the shingles in bleaching oil and never
did anything since. I have more uniform color change now. My trim I
used cheap pine and claded with white metal. I have a maintance free
exterior. People that said cedar will turn black are proably mistaking
cedar clapbords which will look horrible. Find some books on CAPE COD a
large island off Massachusetts and you will see the typical CAPE with
weathered cedar shingles.
> Teamcasa wrote:
>
>> Cedar lasted on my roof, untreated for 30+ years. Never turned black.
>>
>> Dave
"Pat Barber"
> What part of the world ???
>
> My home is covered in vertical cedar siding that has
> been on there for 19 years.
>
> Channel Rustic was the "hot" siding back then but it
> has long since been replaced by Hardi Plank because
> of maintenance and cost. That same siding today is
> running just a tad over $2.00 LF and almost impossible
> to find in stock.
>
> Our relative humidity is "around" 85% year round.
> Mold and mildew is our constant friend.
>
> Perhaps you leave in Sunny California and maybe
> Arizona, but not the sunny/wet south.
>
>
I do. Unlike you in Oceanside, I live nestled to the base of the San
Gabriel Mountains, near Pasadena, CA. In the San Gabriel Valley, there are
hundreds of Craftsman style homes with cedar shake roofs and siding. I did,
recently have to put a new roof on that met the current fire code. This
area has low humidity especially during the Santa Ana wind conditions.
Dave
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On Fri, 26 May 2006 07:33:24 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>As long as you installed it correctly, you will have no callbacks ... nor
>will your grandkids.
As long as they never own a ball - of any kind - that can be hit onto
the board with sufficient force...
Damn, Swing, are you only building in Adult Communities these days?
I don't know how many cementitious boards (glommed up with asbestos in
those days) that I have replaced because they have broken at the edges
under force.
Are the new products that much better?
(ain't a challenge - just a question)
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Watson" wrote in message
>
>> I don't know how many cementitious boards (glommed up with asbestos in
>> those days) that I have replaced because they have broken at the edges
>> under force.
>>
>> Are the new products that much better?
>
> Hey Tom ... IMO, Yes. I've not had a single installed Hardiplank siding
> break on at least a half a dozen houses where it's been installed thus
> far,
> including mine.
>
> It simply has not been a problem, and even more remarkable since most of
> those were built using vent skin construction (you guys may call it "rain
> skin" up there) where you would expect it to be a problem, versus applying
> siding directly to the sheathing. (I don't allow the cornice crews to
> blind
> nail in this application, use double nailed, 4" wide, furring strips for
> added support with the extra surface area, and have the painters putty
> fill
> the nail holes).
I was a bit concerned about the broken edge problem too but found that the
Hardiplank siding I installed on my house is very tough stuff. The trim
boards can be a problem if not properly (read "evenly") backed up between
nails--I broke two corner boards through inattention. I also found that you
should not install 10' lengths of perf soffits by yourself (even with
cleats) as it doesn't have the structural integrity to be unsupported--broke
two of those too. I must say that my biggest single problem was doing the
job by myself. Having a helper would have made the whole job much easier!
John
Untreated/unfinished western red cedar will turn black and
look like hell after a few months/years....
Hardi Plank is your friend and requires very little in
the way of maintenance.
[email protected] wrote:
> I wasn't aware you could get away with not finishing Western Red Cedar.
> The various Web sites I have looked at all refer to finishing it. Is
> that really not required?
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
how do the cement board products hold up in the north? I recently did the
siding on a house for a guy that had moved up here from Texas, and he
insisted on a cement product. Nobody I spoke with up here had ever used it,
so I did a bunch of research, got the appropriate waivers, and installed it.
So far I haven't had any call backs, but then it has only been a year......
-_JD
"Kiwanda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I occasionally teach seminars on green building-- I'm a college prof
> --and given the OPs desire for a "sustainable" building I wouldn't
> recommend any of the wood options being discussed. Wood just doesn't
> make sense in green applications like this unless it's locally sourced
> AND from a sustainably managed forest or reclaimed stock. I'd also
> recommend a fiber cement product; I'm partial to the Certainteed
> "weatherboard" product myself, which is available pre-finished. There
> are some issues with the embodied energy and CO2 impacts of concrete in
> general, but a product of this nature will last 50 years and won't
> require nearly the maintenance of cedar.
>
> FWIW, Certainteed makes a "stucco" product in sheets, as well as a very
> nice looking board-and-batten design as well as traditional lap siding.
>
> -kiwanda
>
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> I don't know how many cementitious boards (glommed up with asbestos in
> those days) that I have replaced because they have broken at the edges
> under force.
>
> Are the new products that much better?
Hey Tom ... IMO, Yes. I've not had a single installed Hardiplank siding
break on at least a half a dozen houses where it's been installed thus far,
including mine.
It simply has not been a problem, and even more remarkable since most of
those were built using vent skin construction (you guys may call it "rain
skin" up there) where you would expect it to be a problem, versus applying
siding directly to the sheathing. (I don't allow the cornice crews to blind
nail in this application, use double nailed, 4" wide, furring strips for
added support with the extra surface area, and have the painters putty fill
the nail holes).
I also use the Hardi products almost exclusively in interior areas where we
used to use greenboard ... behind tubs/showers, back splashes, and anywhere
tile or stone is laid.
Peace of mind for the builder, and a long lasting, virtually maintenance and
mold and mildew free exterior/interior for the owner.
I was drug kicking and screaming to the technology, but have been become an
evangelical convert. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06
"jd" wrote in message
> how do the cement board products hold up in the north? I recently did the
> siding on a house for a guy that had moved up here from Texas, and he
> insisted on a cement product. Nobody I spoke with up here had ever used
it,
> so I did a bunch of research, got the appropriate waivers, and installed
it.
> So far I haven't had any call backs, but then it has only been a
year......
As long as you installed it correctly, you will have no callbacks ... nor
will your grandkids.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Yes, we've looked at Hardie siding. It's a serious contender for the
> stucco "infill" portion of the project skin, but we'd still like to
> have real wood for the major surfaces if budget and maintenance allow.
>
>
Cypress is about as durable and rot-resistant as any wood I know of.
Good luck finding some really good stuff and get out your checkbook!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all.
>
> This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
> in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
> series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
>
> I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
> built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
> light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
> with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
> "sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
> water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
>
> We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
> siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
> for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
> picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
> just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
> of ongoing maintenance.
>
> My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
> at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
> the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
> hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
> or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
> (or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
> perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
> over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
> on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
> paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
> installed.
>
> Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
>
> So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
> Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
> asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
> hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
> reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> /adam
I realize that this response might be considered non-responsive, but are you
married to wood siding? You might consider the fiber-cement siding, such as
the kind manufactured by the James Hardie company
http://www.jameshardie.com/ . It can be made with a wood texture and can
come pre-finished.
todd
todd
What part of the world ???
My home is covered in vertical cedar siding that has
been on there for 19 years.
Channel Rustic was the "hot" siding back then but it
has long since been replaced by Hardi Plank because
of maintenance and cost. That same siding today is
running just a tad over $2.00 LF and almost impossible
to find in stock.
Our relative humidity is "around" 85% year round.
Mold and mildew is our constant friend.
Perhaps you leave in Sunny California and maybe
Arizona, but not the sunny/wet south.
Teamcasa wrote:
> Cedar lasted on my roof, untreated for 30+ years. Never turned black.
>
> Dave
On Fri, 26 May 2006 20:23:03 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Tom Watson" wrote in message
>
>> I don't know how many cementitious boards (glommed up with asbestos in
>> those days) that I have replaced because they have broken at the edges
>> under force.
>>
>> Are the new products that much better?
>
>Hey Tom ... IMO, Yes. I've not had a single installed Hardiplank siding
>break on at least a half a dozen houses where it's been installed thus far,
>including mine.
>
>It simply has not been a problem, and even more remarkable since most of
>those were built using vent skin construction (you guys may call it "rain
>skin" up there) where you would expect it to be a problem, versus applying
>siding directly to the sheathing. (I don't allow the cornice crews to blind
>nail in this application, use double nailed, 4" wide, furring strips for
>added support with the extra surface area, and have the painters putty fill
>the nail holes).
>
>I also use the Hardi products almost exclusively in interior areas where we
>used to use greenboard ... behind tubs/showers, back splashes, and anywhere
>tile or stone is laid.
>
>Peace of mind for the builder, and a long lasting, virtually maintenance and
>mold and mildew free exterior/interior for the owner.
>
>I was drug kicking and screaming to the technology, but have been become an
>evangelical convert. ;)
Shazzam!
I may have to look into some of this stuff for my own homestead.
Thanks.
BTW
Ain't you s'posed to be fondling the Fretless tonight?
How come you got Friday off?
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Cedar. There is a T-111 cedar siding product around.
Jim
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all.
>
> This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
> in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
> series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
>
> I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
> built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
> light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
> with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
> "sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
> water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
>
> We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
> siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
> for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
> picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
> just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
> of ongoing maintenance.
>
> My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
> at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
> the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
> hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
> or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
> (or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
> perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
> over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
> on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
> paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
> installed.
>
> Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
>
> So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
> Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
> asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
> hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
> reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> /adam
>
On Thu, 25 May 2006 19:52:34 GMT, Pat Barber
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Untreated/unfinished western red cedar will turn black and
>look like hell after a few months/years....
>
>Hardi Plank is your friend and requires very little in
>the way of maintenance.
>
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> I wasn't aware you could get away with not finishing Western Red Cedar.
>> The various Web sites I have looked at all refer to finishing it. Is
>> that really not required?
>>
>> Thanks for the input!
>>
Cedar roof shakes (shingles) and fence slats/pickets are used
extensively in various areas of the country. They weather to
silver-gray and generally last at least 10-15 years before requiring
replacement. The fence pickets usually succumb to termites where I
live on the Gulf coast, rather than just weathering.
Cliff
On 24 May 2006 17:00:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
>in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
>series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
>
>I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
>built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
>light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
>with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
>"sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
>water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
>
>We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
>siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
>for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
>picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
>just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
>of ongoing maintenance.
>
>My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
>at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
>the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
>hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
>or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
>(or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
>perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
>over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
>on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
>paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
>installed.
>
>Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
>
>So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
>Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
>asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
>hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
>reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
>
>Thanks again!
>
>/adam
Adam,
I own a summer place in southern Ontario, Canada that's been in the
family for just over a hundred years. The climate is very mixed, going
from very dry to very wet conditions (we're right on the lake shore,
so it often gets pretty humid). One of the cottages, a built out barn,
had hand split cedar shingles applied somewhere around 80-85 years
ago, untreated then or since. The shingles are still in good shape
(weathered to a dark silver/brown) everywhere except close to the
ground where they are subject to water splashing from runoff. There
they show deterioration; I think more from dry rot (many wet/dry
cycles) than anything else. Based on this experience, cedar is
certainly capable of holding up well untreated for a long time.
Last week I finally trashed a wheelbarrow that I've had for about 25
years. It had been kept outdoors at my home in Houston (hot/humid),
tipped up against the back of the garage. The handles, which I believe
were made of Ipe, were rotted at the front end of the barrow from
ground contact. The steel of the body an the hardware rusting is what
prompted the replacement of the wheelbarrow though. The condition of
the handles amazed me. They are well crackled, splintery, and gray on
the outside. I figured they were totally deteriorated and took a saw
to them to make it easier for the trash guys to take the barrow away.
After cutting them off, I started looking at them and found that only
the outer 1/16" or so was deteriorated (after 25 years of
weathering!). The interior is a beautiful dark red, rock hard wood
that has now become small turning stock for future projects. I had
heard Ipe was great for outdoor use; this has proven it to me without
a doubt.
I think either of these woods would serve you well, and I'd bet the
cedar would be a good bit less expensive.
Cliff
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> BTW
>
> Ain't you s'posed to be fondling the Fretless tonight?
That would have been last night ... we played for a Mensa conference. Funny,
I feel much smarter, and richer, this morning.
> How come you got Friday off?
Musician's union rule on three day weekends ... you can only work three of
the days and two of the nights. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06
You mean, like when it rains?
"marson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> in spite of what a previous
> poster said, , it will not turn black, unless water splashes on it and
> is in a damp environment.
Hardie Plank!
It's hard and expensive to buy good wood and even more so to get quality
installation.
I prefer wood, but for a commercial space I 'm not sure it's worth the
trouble.
Wilson
It's hard to get a good looking stain type color, but paint works well.
"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hi all.
>>
>> This group has been an extremely valuable source of information for me
>> in the past years, so I thought I'd post another in a very infrequent
>> series of questions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
>>
>> I am building (well, I am the developer, which is to say I am having
>> built) a small commercial building with 16,000 sq ft of office and
>> light manufacturing space. The building is in an area of N. California
>> with quite mild weather all year 'round. We are trying to make this a
>> "sustainable" building; that is, optimizing the building's energy use,
>> water consumption, indoor air quality, and so forth.
>>
>> We're specifying a mix of wood and other materials (stucco and/or metal
>> siding, TBD) for the exterior skin of the building. Because I'm paying
>> for the construction but may also own the building for years, when
>> picking a wood species for the siding I need to take into account not
>> just installation cost and the environmental factors but also the cost
>> of ongoing maintenance.
>>
>> My preference would be to use a wood species that requires no finishing
>> at all. This will lower the nonrecurring and recurring costs, reduce
>> the amount of chemicals consumed, and require no long term maintenance
>> hassle. I understand that any wood left untreated will weather to gray
>> or silver over time. I have not found many species that can be treated
>> (or not treated, as the case may be) in this way: teak, ipe, manchiche,
>> perhaps sinker cypress. Of these, I am seeing reclaimed teak quoted
>> over $20/bf (insane), sinker cypress $8-10/bf, and I don't have pricing
>> on ipe or manchiche yet. For comparison purposes, three-coat stucco and
>> paint is about $5/sq ft (more or less equivalent to a bf in this case)
>> installed.
>>
>> Treating with Cetol is of course an option, though not my preference.
>>
>> So the question is, based on your experience, what is the best choice?
>> Can I really get away with not treating *any* of these woods or is that
>> asking for trouble? What other woods should I be considering (my local
>> hardwood dealer is recommending jarrah)? Got sources for good
>> reclaimed, certified, or otherwise sustainably harvested lumber?
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> /adam
>>
>
> I'd second the Cedar
>
> Dave
>
>
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