50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
support to the stretcher.
Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
end of the stretcher.
This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
touching the wall.
Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
bend.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 7:07:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:21:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> >> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> >> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
> >> support to the stretcher.
> >>
> >> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> >> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
> >> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
> >>
> >> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
> >> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
> >> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
> >> end of the stretcher.
> >>
> >> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
> >> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
> >> touching the wall.
> >>
> >> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
> >> bend.
> >
> >Mount 1" spacers on the corners that touch the wall. ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >(Please *please* notice the smiley face.)
>
>
> I was gong to say to build up the wall 1 inch with some mud.
> ... and never move the painting !
> John T.
Or just screw it to the wall.... with decorative screws, of course.
Sonny
On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
> support to the stretcher.
>
> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
>
> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
> end of the stretcher.
>
> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
> touching the wall.
>
> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
> bend.
Mount 1" spacers on the corners that touch the wall. ;-)
(Please *please* notice the smiley face.)
On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 3:34:08 PM UTC-5, [email protected]=20
> We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the=20
> canvas.
I would think the canvas is in good shape, for re-stretching. A framer wou=
ld be able to tell. Get his/her opinion, when/if you get a re-stretching =
estimate.
You could probably test the canvas for dry rot, if that's what you suspect =
is not stable, about it. Many really old paintings still have decent canv=
as. To test, try to tear a small bit on a back side corner of the canvas. =
Canvas awnings last a long time, even after years of foul weather, though=
the protective coatings are different, than painted canvas.
Sonny
On 6/21/2018 3:51 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:34:04 -0400, Keith Nuttle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/21/2018 1:32 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>>>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>>>> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
>>>> support to the stretcher.
>>>>
>>>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>>>> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was
>>>> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
>>>> wall
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> That's pretty severe, indeed! I've never had frame twist even remotely
>>> close to that much.
>>>
>>> Do interpret correctly that out of the frame, the frame itself is flat
>>> and not introducing the twist?
>>>
>>> If so, I think I would instead restretch the canvas on new stretcher
>>> stock, again presuming it is on regular-weight canvas.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> The frame was not the best, and I don't think contributed to the warp,
>> but what ever I took the strecher out of the frame. The frame consists
>> of a mitred 3" door molding. The frame was held to the stretcher with
>> metal straps, so should not have contributed to the bending.
>> We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the
>> canvas.
>
>
> What about attaching the stretcher to a solid sheet of < plywood ? >
> then re-framing to hide everything ? To save ruining the canvas <?>
> John T.
Cut the plywood to fit snugly inside the stretcher, you won't have to
re-frame.
On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:00:28 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 7:07:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:21:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> > >> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> > >> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> > >> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
> > >> support to the stretcher.
> > >>
> > >> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> > >> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
> > >> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
> > >>
> > >> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
> > >> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
> > >> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
> > >> end of the stretcher.
> > >>
> > >> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
> > >> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
> > >> touching the wall.
> > >>
> > >> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
> > >> bend.
> > >
> > >Mount 1" spacers on the corners that touch the wall. ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >(Please *please* notice the smiley face.)
> >
> >
> > I was gong to say to build up the wall 1 inch with some mud.
> > ... and never move the painting !
> > John T.
>
> Or just screw it to the wall.... with decorative screws, of course.
>
> Sonny
But seriously...
Command strips in each corner. Assuming it doesn't take too much force
to flatten it by hand, I'd bet that Command Strips would hold it flat
against the wall. Those things are pretty strong.
https://www.target.com/p/3m-command-damage-free-hanging-large-black-picture-hanging-strips-4-ct/-/A-13713731
On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 3:10:58 PM UTC-4, William Ahern wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:00:28 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> >> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 7:07:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:21:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> > >> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> >> > >> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> >> > >> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
> >> > >> support to the stretcher.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> >> > >> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
> >> > >> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
> <snip>
> > But seriously...
> >
> > Command strips in each corner. Assuming it doesn't take too much force
> > to flatten it by hand, I'd bet that Command Strips would hold it flat
> > against the wall. Those things are pretty strong.
> >
> > https://www.target.com/p/3m-command-damage-free-hanging-large-black-picture-hanging-strips-4-ct/-/A-13713731
>
> I can attest that they can hold up significant weight. I used them to hang a
> 3'x4' 20lb porcelain chalkbard because the office lease prohibited nailing
> into the walls. (Back then I took the lease terms too seriously.)
>
> I glued a wooden strip along the aluminum frame on each side to affix the
> command strips. 6 years later it's still hanging, but much like the OP's
> issue the chalkboard is bending out of plane. The command strips detached
> from the wood along the upper-right corner. That happened after only a
> couple of years. It's still hanging there, though. I keep expecting to walk
> into the room one morning to see a huge mess.
>
> Point being, the command strips seem less effective at holding something
> firm against the wall that wants to pull away.
"Less effective" obviously depends on a couple of factors:
1 - How much outward pull the twisting object exerts on the strip.
2 - How well the adhesive holds onto the surface it's attached to.
I would think that the adhesive would have adhered to the aluminum
better than the wood, but I certainly don't know the specifics of the
application.
Smooth, finished wood with lots of contact area or this...
https://comps.canstockphoto.com/wood-background-old-timber-rough-stock-images_csp25305755.jpg
...or something in between.
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 9:00:28 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 7:07:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:21:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> > >> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>> > >> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>> > >> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
>> > >> support to the stretcher.
>> > >>
>> > >> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>> > >> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
>> > >> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
<snip>
> But seriously...
>
> Command strips in each corner. Assuming it doesn't take too much force
> to flatten it by hand, I'd bet that Command Strips would hold it flat
> against the wall. Those things are pretty strong.
>
> https://www.target.com/p/3m-command-damage-free-hanging-large-black-picture-hanging-strips-4-ct/-/A-13713731
I can attest that they can hold up significant weight. I used them to hang a
3'x4' 20lb porcelain chalkbard because the office lease prohibited nailing
into the walls. (Back then I took the lease terms too seriously.)
I glued a wooden strip along the aluminum frame on each side to affix the
command strips. 6 years later it's still hanging, but much like the OP's
issue the chalkboard is bending out of plane. The command strips detached
from the wood along the upper-right corner. That happened after only a
couple of years. It's still hanging there, though. I keep expecting to walk
into the room one morning to see a huge mess.
Point being, the command strips seem less effective at holding something
firm against the wall that wants to pull away.
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:34:04 -0400, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 6/21/2018 1:32 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>>> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
>>> support to the stretcher.
>>>
>>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>>> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was
>>> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
>>> wall
>> ...
>>
>>
>> That's pretty severe, indeed! I've never had frame twist even remotely
>> close to that much.
>>
>> Do interpret correctly that out of the frame, the frame itself is flat
>> and not introducing the twist?
>>
>> If so, I think I would instead restretch the canvas on new stretcher
>> stock, again presuming it is on regular-weight canvas.
>>
>> --
>>
>The frame was not the best, and I don't think contributed to the warp,
>but what ever I took the strecher out of the frame. The frame consists
>of a mitred 3" door molding. The frame was held to the stretcher with
>metal straps, so should not have contributed to the bending.
>We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the
>canvas.
What about attaching the stretcher to a solid sheet of < plywood ? >
then re-framing to hide everything ? To save ruining the canvas <?>
John T.
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:21:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:19:06 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>> made of "thin" 1X2" The original frame did not add any structural
>> support to the stretcher.
>>
>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was about
>> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
>>
>> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
>> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
>> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
>> end of the stretcher.
>>
>> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
>> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
>> touching the wall.
>>
>> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
>> bend.
>
>Mount 1" spacers on the corners that touch the wall. ;-)
>
>
>
>(Please *please* notice the smiley face.)
I was gong to say to build up the wall 1 inch with some mud.
... and never move the painting !
John T.
>>
>> What about attaching the stretcher to a solid sheet of < plywood ? >
>> then re-framing to hide everything ? To save ruining the canvas <?>
>> John T.
>>
>That may work. IF the plywood were thick enough. A piece of plywood
>40X30 would add weight; frame + stretcher + plywood. Thinking: I wonder
>how thick the plywood would have to be to be strong enough to pull the
>bend out of the stretcher.
A rough test - see what muscle it takes to bend a 5/16 piece ?
or a 1/4 with a rigid X-brace ? just random thoughts.
I would be worried about damaging the canvas - by replacing the
stretcher ..
Also - perhaps an old experienced picture-framing place could
offer some advice - or give you a quote on a Pro Job .
John T.
On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
> support to the stretcher.
>
> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was about
> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
>
> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
> end of the stretcher.
>
> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
> touching the wall.
>
> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of this
> bend.
Build a shadow box frame, narrow in front but deep. Before assembly
route or cut a rabbit on the back for the picture to fit inside. It
will be rigid enough to take the warp out.
On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
> support to the stretcher.
>
> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was about
> 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the wall
...
That's pretty severe, indeed! I've never had frame twist even remotely
close to that much.
Do interpret correctly that out of the frame, the frame itself is flat
and not introducing the twist?
If so, I think I would instead restretch the canvas on new stretcher
stock, again presuming it is on regular-weight canvas.
--
On 6/21/2018 1:32 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
>> support to the stretcher.
>>
>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was
>> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
>> wall
> ...
>
>
> That's pretty severe, indeed! I've never had frame twist even remotely
> close to that much.
>
> Do interpret correctly that out of the frame, the frame itself is flat
> and not introducing the twist?
>
> If so, I think I would instead restretch the canvas on new stretcher
> stock, again presuming it is on regular-weight canvas.
>
> --
>
The frame was not the best, and I don't think contributed to the warp,
but what ever I took the strecher out of the frame. The frame consists
of a mitred 3" door molding. The frame was held to the stretcher with
metal straps, so should not have contributed to the bending.
We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the
canvas.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
On 6/21/2018 5:51 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:34:04 -0400, Keith Nuttle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/21/2018 1:32 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>>>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>>>> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
>>>> support to the stretcher.
>>>>
>>>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>>>> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was
>>>> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
>>>> wall
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> That's pretty severe, indeed! I've never had frame twist even remotely
>>> close to that much.
>>>
>>> Do interpret correctly that out of the frame, the frame itself is flat
>>> and not introducing the twist?
>>>
>>> If so, I think I would instead restretch the canvas on new stretcher
>>> stock, again presuming it is on regular-weight canvas.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> The frame was not the best, and I don't think contributed to the warp,
>> but what ever I took the strecher out of the frame. The frame consists
>> of a mitred 3" door molding. The frame was held to the stretcher with
>> metal straps, so should not have contributed to the bending.
>> We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the
>> canvas.
>
>
> What about attaching the stretcher to a solid sheet of < plywood ? >
> then re-framing to hide everything ? To save ruining the canvas <?>
> John T.
>
That may work. IF the plywood were thick enough. A piece of plywood
40X30 would add weight; frame + stretcher + plywood. Thinking: I wonder
how thick the plywood would have to be to be strong enough to pull the
bend out of the stretcher.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
On 6/21/2018 7:55 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 3:34:08 PM UTC-5, [email protected]
>> We are thinking of restretching it, but unsure of the stabilty of the
>> canvas.
>
> I would think the canvas is in good shape, for re-stretching. A framer would be able to tell. Get his/her opinion, when/if you get a re-stretching estimate.
>
> You could probably test the canvas for dry rot, if that's what you suspect is not stable, about it. Many really old paintings still have decent canvas. To test, try to tear a small bit on a back side corner of the canvas. Canvas awnings last a long time, even after years of foul weather, though the protective coatings are different, than painted canvas.
I'd be surprised if not...you can simply replace the canvas over the new
stretcher and use the wedges to tighten; you don't need to even actually
stretch the canvas like preparing a new one; it's already sized...
--
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 18:38:38 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 6/21/2018 5:51 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> What about attaching the stretcher to a solid sheet of < plywood ? >
>> then re-framing to hide everything ? To save ruining the canvas <?>
>> John T.
>>
> That may work. IF the plywood were thick enough. A piece of plywood
> 40X30 would add weight; frame + stretcher + plywood. Thinking: I wonder
> how thick the plywood would have to be to be strong enough to pull the
> bend out of the stretcher.
To pull *all* of the bend out *at once*, probably pretty thick. What if
you try to pull the bend out gradually, over a period of maybe a month?
A welded steel frame might work even better, and possibly weigh less than
plywood, depending on the thickness of the steel.
Where do you live?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:19:02 [email protected] wrote:
> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
> diagonal between the corners. ie this meant that one corner was
> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
> wall
you did not say what the problem was so far
you did mention the symptoms
has the wood warped or has the canvas shrunk
maybe humidifying the canvas would allow it to relax and then some
stiffeners could be attached
there are some good sites about art restoration
iirc some museums have good sites for this
or you could wait some and then you may not care anymore
or you could declare it to be unsalvageable as a way to have new
art in that place
On 6/25/2018 7:12 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/21/2018 12:19 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> 50 years ago my wife painted a picture on stretched canvas over a
>> commercial art stretcher. The stretcher is 40X30". The stretcher is
>> made of "thin" 1X2"Â The original frame did not add any structural
>> support to the stretcher.
>>
>> Over the last 50 years it has developed a bend in the plane of the
>> diagonal between the corners.  ie this meant that one corner was
>> about 3" from the wall when the other three corners were touching the
>> wall
>>
>> I thought it would be an easy fix with a cross made of 1x2" material
>> that fit a cross the back of the stretcher. The arms cross at 90
>> degrees, so the arms are attached to the stretcher about 6" from each
>> end of the stretcher.
>>
>> This took out a lot of the bend but still left enough so that the one
>> corner is about 1" from the wall when the other three corners are
>> touching the wall.
>>
>> Is there any other way to get the leverage to take out the rest of
>> this bend.
>
> Build a shadow box frame, narrow in front but deep. Before assembly
> route or cut a rabbit on the back for the picture to fit inside. It
> will be rigid enough to take the warp out.
OP: This is the option I am currently looking at. I probably will make
a new frame for it out of 1X3. It will have a Dado for the picture
itself.
In working with the picture I realized that two sides of the stretcher
are slightly warp. one long side has a convex warp that is about a
quarter inch deep in the middle of the side. There is no warping in the
other two sides. One short side has a concave warp that is a is about
3/16.
Forcing the stretcher against the new frame should solve the problem.
Thanks to all for your suggestions
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre