I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your project?
I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should be using
"B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
For example, I went to Rockler (Concord CA) to pick up some Waterlox because
I like it on Walnut very much. I have all sorts of oils and poly's in the
cupboard, but I just like Waterlox on walnut, so that's what I went to get.
I asked the salesman if he had waterlox. "What are you trying to do with
your finish?" was his response. Right away, I got defensive because I
didn't want to justify to him why I like waterlox. I told him that I was
trying to buy waterlox! He quickly said they didn't stock it which is what
I figured.
On another occasion, I needed to rout finger pulls in some cabinet doors on
a boat because the clients didn't want any protruding hardward (cramped
spaces on the boat). I found that Amana makes one that is 3/4" diameter
while all others were 1" radius. Looked up on the web and found that a
local lumber dealer, Truitt & White in Berkeley CA, are dealers, so down
there I go to order the bit.
I tell the guy behind the counter what I want to order and he looks up the
price. It's a $90+ bit and says I don't want a bit that is that expensive.
He asks what I'm doing and I tell him that I need to rout finger pulls in
doors (it's a finger-pull bit, so I'm not sure what else I'd be using it
for). Anyways, he tells me that if it were him, he'd just use a bullnose
bit. I didn't say anything, but I was thinking 1) a bullnose won't work
because of geometric limitations of the bit and 2) that's probably why he's
behind a counter using a cash register.
I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really am
getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've spent a lot
of time designing and deciding what to do.
Too picky is I?
Mike
Alameda, CA
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
>sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your
>project? I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should
>be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
>
> For example, I went to Rockler (Concord CA) to pick up some Waterlox
> because I like it on Walnut very much. I have all sorts of oils and
> poly's in the cupboard, but I just like Waterlox on walnut, so that's what
> I went to get. I asked the salesman if he had waterlox. "What are you
> trying to do with your finish?" was his response. Right away, I got
> defensive because I didn't want to justify to him why I like waterlox. I
> told him that I was trying to buy waterlox! He quickly said they didn't
> stock it which is what I figured.
>
> On another occasion, I needed to rout finger pulls in some cabinet doors
> on a boat because the clients didn't want any protruding hardward (cramped
> spaces on the boat). I found that Amana makes one that is 3/4" diameter
> while all others were 1" radius. Looked up on the web and found that a
> local lumber dealer, Truitt & White in Berkeley CA, are dealers, so down
> there I go to order the bit.
>
> I tell the guy behind the counter what I want to order and he looks up the
> price. It's a $90+ bit and says I don't want a bit that is that
> expensive. He asks what I'm doing and I tell him that I need to rout
> finger pulls in doors (it's a finger-pull bit, so I'm not sure what else
> I'd be using it for). Anyways, he tells me that if it were him, he'd just
> use a bullnose bit. I didn't say anything, but I was thinking 1) a
> bullnose won't work because of geometric limitations of the bit and 2)
> that's probably why he's behind a counter using a cash register.
>
> I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really am
> getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've spent a
> lot of time designing and deciding what to do.
>
> Too picky is I?
>
> Mike
> Alameda, CA
>
Mike, Maybe a touch too pickey. Just think, "I'm sure glad I don't have
your job!".
And sometimes, rarely, but sometimes an offbeat idea can spur a really
clever new idea!
Dave
Mike Dembroge wrote:
>
> I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really am
> getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've spent a lot
> of time designing and deciding what to do.
I'm not sure if you're being too picky or just frustrated at the
perceived slight to your intelligence. How exactly is someone, who
you've never had contact with before, on the other end of a phone,
supposed to know how much time and effort you've spent making a
decision? Telepathy? You're assuming that the _salesman_ on the other
end of the phone should just give up, say, "Nope. No Waterlox here."
instead of trying to find an alternative that will make the sale and
help you out at the same time?
The person on the other end of the phone can't possibly know who you
are, what you know, whether you're buying a product for the wrong or
right reason, etc. There is exactly zero reason to be bothered by a
salesman asking questions to determine what you're trying to do and if
there is another, possibly better way to do it. They're providing a
service, and a valuable one for many people.
R
Mike Dembroge wrote:
> I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
> sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your project?
> I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should be using
> "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
Just think of it as Natural Selection at work. The salespeople who
DON'T offer up alternatives like that make fewer sales, and eventually
lose their job. The ones who survive are the ones that you
encountered.
That being said, it's just possible the alternative suggestion would
work. It's really your choice, you're welcome to say no, or take time
to think about it and call 'em back later.
Mark
On Tue, 23 May 2006 22:37:01 -0700, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Go to The Borg. It's hard enough to find an employee
>to ask where anything is, let alone get any advice,
>solicited or volunteered.
>
... and you're pretty much guaranteed that any advice you get will be
wrong. (DAMHIKT)
>charlie b
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The Mike Dembroge entity posted thusly:
>
>"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
>>sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your
>>project? I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should
>>be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
>[snip]
>Okay, the consenus is it's me. I'll be nice from now on ;-)
I'm kinda that way too, but it's not so much them suggesting something
different. What I dread is going into a store to buy something that is
for some other purpose than usual.
Say I want an alternator, but it isn't for a vehicle. If I go into an
auto parts store and ask for a particular type of alternator, I end up
in quite a frustrating conversation, trying to explain that it doesn't
matter what brand it is, or what car it was meant to go in. I have
walked out in frustration more than once (though the item not always
an alternator).
I was actually quite pleased the last time I did this at Canadian
Tire, when the fellow actually listened to me when I was looking for a
set of ignition wires, and said "It doesn't matter what car it's built
for. I am looking for the cheapest set.". He spent perhaps a minute
on his computer, went into the back, and came out with a set that was
perfect for the task, and was cheaper than any of the stuff on the
shelf. My tractor runs a lot better now, and I only had to spend
about 1/4 of what Case/IH wanted for a set.
--
O Sibili, Si. Ergo Fortibus es in ero.
O Nobili! Deis Trux. Vatis inem? Causen Dux!
Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything
offered to me in an unsolicited email message. Nor will
I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or
virus warnings. This is my contribution to the survival
of the online community.
ROFLMAO!
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Go to The Borg. It's hard enough to find an employee
> to ask where anything is, let alone get any advice,
> solicited or volunteered.
>
> charlie b
"DJ Delorie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> writes:
>> How would a bullnose create the profile of a finger pull? Wouldn't the
>> sides be square to the surface? I don't see how it can be done. These
>> finger pulls are in the center of the stiles, not the edge, so I don't
>> see
>> how it can be done with just a bullnose.
>
> compare profiles:
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1022
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1286
>
> Both have a half-round in the middle, and a tab at the bottom to do
> the undercut. They're just a little different in details, not general
> shape.
>
> Me, I prefer through-holes with rounded over edges:
>
> http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/kidbeds/
I see what you were looking at and how the bullnose might work. However, I
think the undercut area would be so small and/or shallow that it would be
hard to grip. Have you ever tried it and if so, does it work?
Here's what I used:
http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/amana/finger_door.htm?L+coastest+thbc8789ff238423+1148451577
It's on a very nice 59' yacht, so I didn't cut corners. They really liked
the fingerpulls I made with that bit and it really set off the piece.
Mike
> I'm not sure if you're being too picky or just frustrated at the
> perceived slight to your intelligence. How exactly is someone, who
> you've never had contact with before, on the other end of a phone,
> supposed to know how much time and effort you've spent making a
> decision? Telepathy? You're assuming that the _salesman_ on the other
> end of the phone should just give up, say, "Nope. No Waterlox here."
> instead of trying to find an alternative that will make the sale and
> help you out at the same time?
I think what hits me wrong is having to explain and/or defend what I want.
I'm definitely not the type to think I'm smarter than everyone else, believe
me. However, if a customer asks if a store has "A", then they should say so
and *then* then perhaps try suggesting something IMO. I think it's the
difference between giving a customer what he/she wants versus giving the
customer what will work.
Suppose you went to a lumber yard and asked if they had 4/4 cherry and
rather than give you a price, the salesperson tells you that you should be
using white oak instead. Wouldn't that be a bit annoying?
Well, I was just venting in any case, so it's not worth getting too
worked-up over.
Mike
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
>sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your
>project? I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should
>be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
[snip]
Okay, the consenus is it's me. I'll be nice from now on ;-)
Mike
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay, the consenus is it's me. I'll be nice from now on ;-)
There you go. Recognizing and admitting you have a problem is the first
step to recovery. :~)
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you
> when sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do
> your project? I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they
> say I should be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in
> stock.
>
> For example, I went to Rockler (Concord CA) to pick up some Waterlox
> because I like it on Walnut very much. <snip>
Woodcraft in Dublin stocks several types of Waterlox. They are further
away by 18 miles than Rockler from where I live, but I only need a few
quarts a year...
>
> I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really
> am getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've
> spent a lot of time designing and deciding what to do.
>
> Too picky is I?
I've been known to be a 'bit cranky' at times, myself. Big deal.
Can't please everyone, etc...
Howsoever, the counter guy who doesn't TRY to help sends someone away
without any solution, when something else might have worked that day.
Patriarch
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really am
> getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've spent a
> lot of time designing and deciding what to do.
>
> Too picky is I?
I am not a dumb person, I managed to retire at 40 and had been in upper
management for 99% of my career. I feel that of all the people that I meet
that there is a 50/50 chance that he or she is probably smarter than me or
knows more than 1 way to produce results. I openly listen to new
acquaintances and keep an open mind because I am not ready to stop learning.
I suggest you learn to do so also.
and that's why I like mail order...:-)
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you when
>sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do your
>project? I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should
>be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
>
> For example, I went to Rockler (Concord CA) to pick up some Waterlox
> because I like it on Walnut very much. I have all sorts of oils and
> poly's in the cupboard, but I just like Waterlox on walnut, so that's what
> I went to get. I asked the salesman if he had waterlox. "What are you
> trying to do with your finish?" was his response. Right away, I got
> defensive because I didn't want to justify to him why I like waterlox. I
> told him that I was trying to buy waterlox! He quickly said they didn't
> stock it which is what I figured.
>
> On another occasion, I needed to rout finger pulls in some cabinet doors
> on a boat because the clients didn't want any protruding hardward (cramped
> spaces on the boat). I found that Amana makes one that is 3/4" diameter
> while all others were 1" radius. Looked up on the web and found that a
> local lumber dealer, Truitt & White in Berkeley CA, are dealers, so down
> there I go to order the bit.
>
> I tell the guy behind the counter what I want to order and he looks up the
> price. It's a $90+ bit and says I don't want a bit that is that
> expensive. He asks what I'm doing and I tell him that I need to rout
> finger pulls in doors (it's a finger-pull bit, so I'm not sure what else
> I'd be using it for). Anyways, he tells me that if it were him, he'd just
> use a bullnose bit. I didn't say anything, but I was thinking 1) a
> bullnose won't work because of geometric limitations of the bit and 2)
> that's probably why he's behind a counter using a cash register.
>
> I know this probably sounds like I'm just being an SOB, but I really am
> getting tired of folks telling me how to do something when I've spent a
> lot of time designing and deciding what to do.
>
> Too picky is I?
>
> Mike
> Alameda, CA
>
> You can do recessed pulls with a bullnose bit. Maybe they know more
> than you do?
How would a bullnose create the profile of a finger pull? Wouldn't the
sides be square to the surface? I don't see how it can be done. These
finger pulls are in the center of the stiles, not the edge, so I don't see
how it can be done with just a bullnose.
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:z43dg.57021$ge7.31058@trnddc01...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I am not a dumb person, I managed to retire at 40 and had been in upper
>> management for 99% of my career.
>
> Interesting. Like to share any details, such as the industry?
Automotive.
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Go to The Borg. It's hard enough to find an employee
> to ask where anything is, let alone get any advice,
> solicited or volunteered.
>
> charlie b
This is true 99.99% of the time. However, there are exceptions. In a HD
near here me (San Leandro, CA), there are 2 guys that work there that are
great. One is in the tool department, but I haven't seen him in a while, and
the other works in the electrical dept. When I was rewiring my garage, he
helped me a lot. He's obviously an ex-electrician and was more than willing
to help.
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> writes:
> However, I think the undercut area would be so small and/or shallow
> that it would be hard to grip. Have you ever tried it and if so,
> does it work?
I haven't done it. I use the through-hole technique I showed you. I
agree that the right bit does a better job, just pointing out that
there are other ways to do it.
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> writes:
> How would a bullnose create the profile of a finger pull? Wouldn't the
> sides be square to the surface? I don't see how it can be done. These
> finger pulls are in the center of the stiles, not the edge, so I don't see
> how it can be done with just a bullnose.
compare profiles:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1022
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1286
Both have a half-round in the middle, and a tab at the bottom to do
the undercut. They're just a little different in details, not general
shape.
Me, I prefer through-holes with rounded over edges:
http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/kidbeds/
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> writes:
> I know I'm probably bitching too much, but does it bother any of you
> when sales persons at Rockler or Woodcraft, etc. tell you how to do
> your project?
It doesn't bother me when they suggest alternatives to unavailable
supplies, so that I might be able to finish my project. And I'm
always willing to learn other ways to do things. Did you ask *why*
they were suggesting alternatives? I mean, other than not stocking
it? Maybe there's a *reason* why they don't stock it?
> I ask for product "A" and if they don't have it, they say I should
> be using "B" anyways...which they just happen to have in stock.
Sounds like they're trying to help you finish your project?
> 1) a bullnose won't work because of geometric limitations of the bit
You can do recessed pulls with a bullnose bit. Maybe they know more
than you do?
Consider that they see lots of types of people, and perhaps - in their
experience - people like you know know exactly what they're doing are
the exception. They've probably learned that most of their customers
don't know what they're doing, so they start by making sure they're
not buying something totally inappropriate for their project. Why?
Because they want their customers to come back again.
So next time they ask what you're working on, have plans ready and be
prepared to show it off. Get to know them, so that next time they can
give you help that *you* find helpful.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am not a dumb person, I managed to retire at 40 and had been in upper
> management for 99% of my career.
Interesting. Like to share any details, such as the industry?
> I feel that of all the people that I meet that there is a 50/50 chance
> that he or she is probably smarter than me or knows more than 1 way to
> produce results. I openly listen to new acquaintances and keep an open
> mind because I am not ready to stop learning. I suggest you learn to do so
> also.
Sounds similar to things a gentleman named A. Einstein was
reported to have said. ;-)
-- Mark