gold leaf?

Sun, Nov 16, 2003, 11:36pm (EST+5) [email protected] (David=A0Zaret)
says:
<snip> she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be a
couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
options for "gold."<snip>

Custom work at discount prices, eh?

I suppose you could try some Reynold's wrap foil, and pass it off
as silver.

You might want to try "gold" paint. Maybe even over Reynold's
wrap. I've never used any gold paint, and only for sandwiches with
Reynold's wrap, so can't say what your results would look like. But,
the paint should only put you out a few $ to try it. I'd think brush
paint would look better over sealed wood. But, if you do try the
Reynold's, I would think srpay might come out better.

Or, if she's totally whacky, you could alway glue some gold glitter
on the legs.

Just recalled, when I was in Ft Hood, a guy had an Olds Cutlass he
had wanted to "antique". So he used aluminum foil over the whole car.
He actually did a neat enough job of it, but I think he was the only one
that really cared much for the effect.


JOAT
Of course I don't think you're a complete idiot. Some parts are
missing.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Nov 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

yeah, she's a little wacky. but i need the work, and the possible
referrals. so... even though i disagree with her design skills (and
taste), it is what it is.




Leon wrote:

> So she wants it to look rich with Gold Leaf and then wants you to attach
> wheels to it.... Hum..
>
>
> "David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
>>on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
>>gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
>>it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
>>a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
>>options for "gold."
>>
>>also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
>>the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
>>wheel issue. advice?
>>
>>thanks in advance,
>>
>>--- dz
>>
>
>
>

very helpful. thanks to everyone who responded.

--- dz



Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:36:44 GMT, David Zaret <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
>>on the legs and skirt.
>
>
> Dead easy. I gold leaf a lot of details on pieces, especially
> contemporary Japanese-style or medievalana. First time I ever used
> gold leaf I was only about 8 years old - doing the lettering on the
> side of Dad's wagon. No idea how I managed it - I hate working
> vertical panels these days !
>
> Gold leaf is rarely gold. These days it's anodised aluminium, which
> gives you a huge range of colours, including some golds and even
> variegated effects. Non-gold has a long history and "Dutch metal"
> (schlagmetal) is a form of brass. These are both cheap to buy, and it
> becomes a labour-dominated cost. Even gold is affordable, as you use
> very little weight of it. But learn the technique on aluminium first !
> You may also find silver leaf, which gives a good art deco feel.
>
> If you've any Buddhists nearby, especially Thai / Therevada Buddhists,
> then they're usually knowledgeable about buying (or selling !) gold
> leaf locally.
>
> Surface prep is important. It needs to be smooth, and that often means
> an applied gesso layer underneath. A traditional recipe is rabbit skin
> glue and chalk whiting. Coloured gesso is called bole. You can buy all
> of these from Liberon, or even a local "Crafty World Shoppe". For
> modern work, car body filler works, and sands well.
>
> There are two processes for sticking it down; water or oil gilding.
> Use oil gilding, with a commercial oil size. This is just an oil
> varnish mixture, that you apply by brush, wait until tacky, then apply
> the leaf.
>
> Water gilding needs a traditional gesso and a lot of technique.
> However it allows better burnishing with real gold. The "size" here
> is just 30% alcohol solution, and the adhesive comes from softening
> the previously applied gesso. Timing of the gesso layer's drying and
> moisture control over the whole process are crucial.
>
> Leaf application technique is fiddly, rather than complex. You will
> benefit from using the traditional tools of a gilder's cushion, knife
> and tip. The cushion is a rough-surfaced leather covered "palette"
> (easily made) with a thumb grip underneath and a wind shield of thin
> cardboard around it. The gilder's knife is a straight-edged palette
> knife, with a sharpened edge. A "tip" is just a wide soft brush, used
> for carrying leaf from cushion to workpiece. A cheap Japanese hake
> brush (or its Chinese / Indonesian clone) works, especially if you saw
> the handle off short.
>
> After application, burnish. If you can't find an agate burnisher, talk
> to a vet dentist and scrounge a big dog's canine tooth (traditional
> too !). Burnishing is much easier with gold - it doesn't really work
> with aluminium.
>
> I'm not even going to try and describe the brush. smoothing,
> burnishing and trimming process without pictures. But they're easy
> enough, there are plenty of books, and you need to practice a lot
> before going live. Pieces with well-defined edges are easy, a
> Japanese mon (family symbol) on a flat surface is hard.
>
>
>
> Best book I know is "Framing and Gilding" by Paul Curson
> It's Australian, probably out of print, but grab it if you see a copy
> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0646126733/codesmiths>
>
> This isn't a book on framing. It assumes you already know that much.
> Issues on matting, glazing, framing and general woodworking are
> assumed - and for work at this level, that matting should probably be
> conservation grade.
>
> What it does describe is the making or restoration of classically
> styled picture frames. Carved mouldings, mould-formed mouldings from
> "compo", all these techniques are covered. It's also a useful book for
> restoration work on furniture with these same moulding techniques.
>
> To be honest, there are many gold leaf books out there.
> Try "Annie Sloan" if you're in the UK.
>
> --
> Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

whooo! i know something else i wont be doing!

any opinions on the finish you would get with some gold paint,
like the one at:
http://www.duncanpaintstore.com/nmclay-bin/shop.pl/page=metal.htm/SID=1069282853.9448

[no connection with any related businesses].

irax.


Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:36:44 GMT, David Zaret <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>

<snipped a lot of good stuff>

Also there is "real" gold and an artificial gold colour leaf. If she is
cheap, she may want the fake stuff.

"klaatu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Years ago FWW had an article on gold leaf. About 10-15 yrs?
> It should be on their cd.
>
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:36:44 GMT, David Zaret <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> >on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> >gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> >it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> >a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> >options for "gold."
> >
> >also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> >the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> >wheel issue. advice?
> >
> >thanks in advance,
> >
> >--- dz
>

Years ago FWW had an article on gold leaf. About 10-15 yrs?
It should be on their cd.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:36:44 GMT, David Zaret <[email protected]>
wrote:

>a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
>on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
>gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
>it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
>a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
>options for "gold."
>
>also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
>the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
>wheel issue. advice?
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>--- dz

There is a new tape out called "The Art of Gold Leafing" by Gene McCall.
Gene is a highend furniture restorer in the Tampa area. This tape is the
first in a series of skills in restoring an 1805 desk (very ornate). I paid
$20 for the tape but have not watched it yet. I bought it so I could be on
the list to get the rest of the tapes. I have seen parts of the tape and
believe this will show goad leafing. The only contact I found on the tape
is a web site address: www.genemccall.com. My only connection with Gene is
attending a presentation at our local wood working guild.
Terry

"David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> options for "gold."
>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --- dz
>

I just started to study about gold leaf, an art unto itself, do a google
there is a wealth of information out there
haven't learned much to guide anyone at this point.

Good Luck,
George
"David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> options for "gold."
>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --- dz
>

Don't write her off. She knows what she wants. I like gold leaf and am
not offended by the casters. I've done several pieces in my own
(contemporary) home with gold leaf and my wife and I are happy with them.

Boden

David Zaret wrote:

> yeah, she's a little wacky. but i need the work, and the possible
> referrals. so... even though i disagree with her design skills (and
> taste), it is what it is.
>
>
>
>
> Leon wrote:
>
>> So she wants it to look rich with Gold Leaf and then wants you to attach
>> wheels to it.... Hum..
>>
>>
>> "David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
>>> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
>>> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
>>> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
>>> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
>>> options for "gold."
>>>
>>> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
>>> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
>>> wheel issue. advice?
>>>
>>> thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> --- dz
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Gold leaf isn't too difficult to apply. It's so damn thin that you need to
do it in an area free of drafts though so you can get it where you want it.
I assume you're talking about accents and not the entire table. You should
be able to find lots of info on the web or just go to a local crafts store
(e.g. Michael's) and they'll have everything you need. You just paint some
stuff on that the gold will stick to. The gold leaf comes in small sheets
(3"x3" or 4"x4"?).

Regarding the casters, try a supplier like Rockler. I just received a mag
yesterday and see they have nice brass antique-looking ones for $30-$40 a
pair.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> options for "gold."
>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --- dz
>

This is not too difficult. Practice a little before working on the real
project though.

The process basically consists of priming the surface with a sizing
which dries and then becomes tacky enough for you to apply the gold
leaf. The leaf (very thin sheets of almost pure gold) is carefully
applied and burnished. The gold leaf comes in squares about 3+ x 3+
inches per sheet (25 sheets, or 284 sq inches run about $45.00.)

The process is quite easy if you don't hurry.

Woodworker's Supply has a good selection of materials as do others.

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=849-860

Don't look at 24 carat gold (pure) use about a 23 carat material (the
remaining 1 carat being copper and silver for improved ductility.)

I have seen claw foot assemblies with casters so you should be able to
find them on the web.

Good luck,
Boden



David Zaret wrote:

> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> options for "gold."
>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --- dz
>

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:03:30 -0600, Iraxl Enb <[email protected]>
wrote:

>any opinions on the finish you would get with some gold paint,

It looks like paint - it won't burnish.

Of course, if this dull gold finish is all you want, then go to it.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

"David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt.

I've never done it myself, but I've seen it done. The gold is layed on and
brushed in place. You can also put some texture in the design. Looks easy
enough, but I'm sure it takes some practice to get it right.

>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?

I'd say 4" casters would be a nice touch. Two swivel will allow it to be
moved around easily. Just spray paint them gold to match the legs. The
ones on my drill press cabinet should work real good!
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

So she wants it to look rich with Gold Leaf and then wants you to attach
wheels to it.... Hum..


"David Zaret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
> on the legs and skirt. the granite i can deal with, but i've never done
> gold-leaf. can anyone give advice on what material to use, how to apply
> it, etc.? she freaked out a bit when i told her that the gold could be
> a couple hundred bucks, so now i'm potentially looking for "cheaper"
> options for "gold."
>
> also, she wants wheels on the legs so she can move it when she cleans.
> the legs will be claw-foot, and i have no idea how to deal with the
> wheel issue. advice?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> --- dz
>

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:36:44 GMT, David Zaret <[email protected]>
wrote:

>a customer has requested a granite-top table with a "gold-leaf" finish
>on the legs and skirt.

Dead easy. I gold leaf a lot of details on pieces, especially
contemporary Japanese-style or medievalana. First time I ever used
gold leaf I was only about 8 years old - doing the lettering on the
side of Dad's wagon. No idea how I managed it - I hate working
vertical panels these days !

Gold leaf is rarely gold. These days it's anodised aluminium, which
gives you a huge range of colours, including some golds and even
variegated effects. Non-gold has a long history and "Dutch metal"
(schlagmetal) is a form of brass. These are both cheap to buy, and it
becomes a labour-dominated cost. Even gold is affordable, as you use
very little weight of it. But learn the technique on aluminium first !
You may also find silver leaf, which gives a good art deco feel.

If you've any Buddhists nearby, especially Thai / Therevada Buddhists,
then they're usually knowledgeable about buying (or selling !) gold
leaf locally.

Surface prep is important. It needs to be smooth, and that often means
an applied gesso layer underneath. A traditional recipe is rabbit skin
glue and chalk whiting. Coloured gesso is called bole. You can buy all
of these from Liberon, or even a local "Crafty World Shoppe". For
modern work, car body filler works, and sands well.

There are two processes for sticking it down; water or oil gilding.
Use oil gilding, with a commercial oil size. This is just an oil
varnish mixture, that you apply by brush, wait until tacky, then apply
the leaf.

Water gilding needs a traditional gesso and a lot of technique.
However it allows better burnishing with real gold. The "size" here
is just 30% alcohol solution, and the adhesive comes from softening
the previously applied gesso. Timing of the gesso layer's drying and
moisture control over the whole process are crucial.

Leaf application technique is fiddly, rather than complex. You will
benefit from using the traditional tools of a gilder's cushion, knife
and tip. The cushion is a rough-surfaced leather covered "palette"
(easily made) with a thumb grip underneath and a wind shield of thin
cardboard around it. The gilder's knife is a straight-edged palette
knife, with a sharpened edge. A "tip" is just a wide soft brush, used
for carrying leaf from cushion to workpiece. A cheap Japanese hake
brush (or its Chinese / Indonesian clone) works, especially if you saw
the handle off short.

After application, burnish. If you can't find an agate burnisher, talk
to a vet dentist and scrounge a big dog's canine tooth (traditional
too !). Burnishing is much easier with gold - it doesn't really work
with aluminium.

I'm not even going to try and describe the brush. smoothing,
burnishing and trimming process without pictures. But they're easy
enough, there are plenty of books, and you need to practice a lot
before going live. Pieces with well-defined edges are easy, a
Japanese mon (family symbol) on a flat surface is hard.



Best book I know is "Framing and Gilding" by Paul Curson
It's Australian, probably out of print, but grab it if you see a copy
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0646126733/codesmiths>

This isn't a book on framing. It assumes you already know that much.
Issues on matting, glazing, framing and general woodworking are
assumed - and for work at this level, that matting should probably be
conservation grade.

What it does describe is the making or restoration of classically
styled picture frames. Carved mouldings, mould-formed mouldings from
"compo", all these techniques are covered. It's also a useful book for
restoration work on furniture with these same moulding techniques.

To be honest, there are many gold leaf books out there.
Try "Annie Sloan" if you're in the UK.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods