Dust Collector Recommendations Needed

On Oct 2, 3:28 pm, HerHusband wrote:
> I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop,

I have a typical Shop Vac I use in my garage which works great for
small projects. The only thing I don't like about it is when I use it
with my planer (as you want to do) I need to empty it every few
minutes.

> - Around $200 or less
Yes it is

> - Portable (on wheels)
Yes it is

> - Regular 120V operation
Yes it is

> - Fairly quiet
Not at all

> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
Yes it will, but that overall capacity is too small for a lot of chips

> - Easy to get the bags on and off
No bags

Dave FL

On Oct 2, 3:28 pm, HerHusband <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
> looking for recommendations.
>
> My requirements:
>
> - Around $200 or less
> - Portable (on wheels)
> - Regular 120V operation
> - Fairly quiet
> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> - Easy to get the bags on and off
>
> I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
> What do you recommend, and why?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anthony

I have the Delta Something-Something (maybe AP) 400. It was under
$150 at a WW show. Not exactly quiet, but quieter than a shopvac. It
does fine for me on one machine at a time-- TS, RAS, jointer, planer
and bandsaw.

Dave

On Oct 2, 4:08 pm, DLB wrote:

>Not exactly quiet, but quieter than a shopvac.

Considering the noise of the planer itself, any vacuum (delta,
shopvac, etc.) noises will not be too noticed.

Dave FL

On Oct 2, 8:58 pm, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > My requirements:
>
> > - Around $200 or less
> > - Portable (on wheels)
> > - Regular 120V operation
> > - Fairly quiet
> > - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> > - Easy to get the bags on and off
>
> For $200...
>
> Decent shop-vac
> Cyclone separator - 4" variety
> Piece of 4" DC hose and a 4" to 2.5" hose reducer - attach to exhaust
> side separator
> 30 gal metal garbage can
> Good pair of ear protectors
>
> I use this setup myself with my planer and it does pretty well.
>
> Ron

I use the 2 hp HF model, have it ouside with a cyclone separator on a
30 gallon metal can. I like it outside because of the noise, also Its
messy and dusty emptying the can and the bag, and outside, I don't
need an expensive micro fine bag. If I were to install it inside, I
would build a closet for it with a furnace filter door. 4" thinwall
pvc pipe and fittings are cheap. Gates at woodcraft are about $5.00
ea. I like the 4" black vinyl flexible hose to each machine, I got 50'
of it from amazon for I think $16.00

If the $200 limit is firm, a good shopvac might do the job for your
planer, and you can put a cleanstream filter on it for dust collection
from handheld power tools.

If you can increase your budget a bit, the Delta 50-760 can be had for
around $300. While it's not as good as a cyclone, it's got a decent bag
and moves a reasonable amount of air. Just keep the hose length short
and use 5" or 6" hose rather than 4". Unfortunately most planers have
4" ports, which limits the amount of air that can be moved.

Chris

Toller wrote:

> Good luck with that. A shopvac doesn't have the cfm to handle a planer, and
> adding a trash can separator will cut what it has significantly.

Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust
collector (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure of a
trashcan separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Toller wrote:
>
>> Good luck with that. A shopvac doesn't have the cfm to handle a planer,
>> and adding a trash can separator will cut what it has significantly.
>
> Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust collector
> (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure of a trashcan
> separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.
>
> Chris

Like a ton less air! A typical shop vac will move a tad over 100 CFM. A HF
dust collector is rated at 1200 CFM, but my bet is they are bragging a bit
high. Even so, about 10 times the air flow. You need air flow to move chips,
static pressure, (suction), don't do squat for moving chips. Moving dust you
have pretty much zero static pressure any way, maybe 4-5 inches of water
column. Skip the trash can separator and try the shop vac direct, it still
won't do a very good job. A few years back I tried doing this with two shop
vacs hooked up, and it still didn't work. My el-cheapo HF dust collector bet
it by a mile.
Greg

Toller wrote:

> So a shopvac moving 100cfm through a 4" hose gives much more suction than a
> DC moving 800cfm.
> What exactly is your definition of suction?!?!

How many water column inches it can raise.

> A shopvac will do better when attached to a ROS than a DC will, but that is
> only because the openings are so small that the DC is starved for air. A
> planer is an example of where exactly the opposite is true; the DC is 5 or
> 10 times better.

Yes. I was simply objecting to your statement that adding a separator
to a shopvac will cut the airflow.

Chris

digitect wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:32:49 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
>
>>Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust
>>collector (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure
>>of a trashcan separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.
>
>
> Probably not. The key is how you define suction.

I'm defining suction as vacuum pressure, or water column inches, or
something similar.

Of course the shopvac won't move as much air as a dust collector, it's a
totally different design. However, because of that difference in design
adding a separator to a shopvac will have minimal impact on the volume
of air moved because it can easily overcome the static pressure of the
collector.

Conversely, a dust collector moves a lot of air but is sensitive to
static pressure increases. Thus adding a cyclone or trashcan separator
can have a large impact on the airflow (depending on the fan curve, of
course).

Chris

HerHusband <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> As for the noise levels, I'm using a shop vac (albeit a "quiet" model), so
> I assume most any dust collector will be quieter. I generally wear ear
> muffs when planing anyway, so noise isn't a huge issue. It was just
> something I was hoping for.
>
> I tried looking for used dust collectors locally, but the few I saw cost
> about the same as new. Might as well buy new.

have you thought about the Mini CV06 cyclone.

That worked for me. I put between my shopvac and the tools. You can put
any size containet you like on it. It is in the background on this pic.
http://meekings.selfip.com/photo-groups/more-groups/Summer_2007/Workbenc
h_Summer_2007/Pages/P1000282.html

I have no connection other than as a happy customer.

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Order_Page.htm
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

Toller <[email protected]> wrote:

> And if you did put a separator on the shopvac you had better seal that
> sucker perfectly, as any leak will pretty much kill it.

probably true, but not difficult to do as you can see from my one.

http://meekings.selfip.com/photo-groups/more-groups/Summer_2007/Workbenc
h_Summer_2007/Pages/P1000282.html.

The cyclone is sitting on an expanded polystyrene disk on the paint can
lid that has another expanded polystyrene disk under it and is just
screwed together. FWIW sometimes I forget to seat the lid firmly but
then the suction keeps the lid on and no special care is needed to seal
it until I turn the shopvac of.

The reason for the lashup is that many materials are hard to come by in
tth LOS

--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 2, 4:08 pm, DLB wrote:
>
>>Not exactly quiet, but quieter than a shopvac.
>
> Considering the noise of the planer itself, any vacuum (delta,
> shopvac, etc.) noises will not be too noticed.
>
> Dave FL
>

That sounds reasonable however my "quiet" Jet 1100 CFM dust collector
magnifies my 15" Delta stationary planer when I turn both on. Neither is
real loud but turn the dust collector on with the planer and the "Planer"
gets a lot louder.

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:28:58 -0500, HerHusband <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
>looking for recommendations.
>
>My requirements:
>
>- Around $200 or less
>- Portable (on wheels)
>- Regular 120V operation
>- Fairly quiet
>- Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
>- Easy to get the bags on and off
>
>I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
>What do you recommend, and why?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anthony

There is a lot of good information and highly satisfied customers of
the Harbor Freight "2 hp" dust collector which is regularly on sale
for around $160 plus shipping (unless you live close to a store and
then it is plus tax). So many people here cringe at the words "Harbor
Freight" but that is just too bad for them. My brother has the HF unit
and if I did not already have a different one (that cost the prior
owner much more than the HF unit and does much less) I would buy one
in a heart beat. The downside is it has 30 micron bags at the $150
price point. It that doesn't work for you they (and others) do sell a
filter cartridge retrofit kit - but the combination ain't gonna be
within the $200 budget. In my opinion their 30 micron bags are not any
worse than anyone elses bag system and the way to go is the filter
cartridge. Google on Harbor Freight dust collector and you will find
lots of info.

Dave Hall

HerHusband wrote:
| I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop,
| and am looking for recommendations.
|
| My requirements:
|
| - Around $200 or less
| - Portable (on wheels)
| - Regular 120V operation
| - Fairly quiet
| - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
| - Easy to get the bags on and off
|
| I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my
| planer).
|
| What do you recommend, and why?

I've been happy with the HF 2 HP dust collector used with a pair of
cyclone separator lids on 55 gal drums. You can take a look at a photo
of my setup at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

I've been using this setup for more than five years now, and have
emptied the barrels more times than I can count, I _still_ haven't
accumulated any dust/debris in the collector bag.

I bought the DC on sale for $150, the drums were free, and the lids
came from Lee Valley.

At http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Cyclone.html I have a page showing how
you can make your own separator lids - I show building for use with a
ShopVac, but it shouldn't be difficult to scale up to 4/5/6-inch hose
sizes.

BTW, it's a lot easier to empty drums.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

digitect <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*

>
> Same thing with a dust collector. No matter the pressure at the
> motor/impeller side, through a 2-1/2" hose you simply can't pull
> enough air (entrained with dust). You need at least 4" duct, but
> preferably 5-6" with a motor/fan sized accordingly. The magic number
> is 800-1000 CFM. Imagine a 10'W x 10'D x 10'H room. Per minute.
>

Wow, that sucks.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"HerHusband" told us

>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
> looking for recommendations.
>

I am sorry, but I just can't get the Red Green imagery out of my mind. A
duct collector, I don't think he made one of those. But if the show was
still on, I bet he would.

This is NOT a spelling flame. Just a curmudgeon humor storm within an ageing
brain.

"HerHusband" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
> looking for recommendations.
>
> My requirements:
>
> - Around $200 or less
> - Portable (on wheels)
> - Regular 120V operation
> - Fairly quiet
> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> - Easy to get the bags on and off
>
> I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
> What do you recommend, and why?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anthony

Unless you are going to only do "a" board or two at a time a small $200
collector will be more trouble than it is worth IMHO. You will probably
find yourself emptying the bag ever 2 or 3 boards. That tends to be a
hassle with the cheaper smaller units. You need to be thinking about double
in price than where you are now.

>> cyclone separator lids
>
> Hmm... That may be a short term, low budget approach to collecting my
> planer shavings. I've got a nice shop vac, so adding a trash can separator
> may be all I need for now. Worst case, I could still use it if I buy a
> dust
> collector.
>
> Something to think about. Thanks!
>
> Anthony

Just make sure to by the one w/ 4" ports and run a 4" pipe between it and
the planer.
And a 2.5" reducer on the other side to connect directly to the shop vac
hose.

Ron

> There is a lot of good information and highly satisfied customers of
> the Harbor Freight "2 hp" dust collector which is regularly on sale
> for around $160 plus shipping

Interesting. I looked it up on their web site. I'm not usually a big HF
fan, but it does seem like a better dust collector than the other 1HP
collectors I've seen in my price range (Delta, Grizzley, Jet, etc.).

> (unless you live close to a store and then it is plus tax).

I think there's a HF store in town. If not, I know a big one over in the
next city. Might be worth a look.

> The downside is it has 30 micron bags
> they (and others) do sell a filter cartridge retrofit kit

I don't have ANY kind of dust collection now, so I figure anything has got
to be an improvement. But having an upgrade path to better filtration is
certainly a plus.

As for the noise levels, I'm using a shop vac (albeit a "quiet" model), so
I assume most any dust collector will be quieter. I generally wear ear
muffs when planing anyway, so noise isn't a huge issue. It was just
something I was hoping for.

I tried looking for used dust collectors locally, but the few I saw cost
about the same as new. Might as well buy new.

Anyway, thanks for the Harbor Freight recommendation. I'll have to make a
run to the local store when I get the chance and see what they have.

Take care,

Anthony

Morris,

> I've been happy with the HF 2 HP dust collector

It seems a lot of people are happy with the HF dust collector. Sounds like
a nice option in my price range.

> cyclone separator lids

Hmm... That may be a short term, low budget approach to collecting my
planer shavings. I've got a nice shop vac, so adding a trash can separator
may be all I need for now. Worst case, I could still use it if I buy a dust
collector.

Something to think about. Thanks!

Anthony

"HerHusband" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
> looking for recommendations.
>
> My requirements:
>
> - Around $200 or less
> - Portable (on wheels)
> - Regular 120V operation
> - Fairly quiet
> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> - Easy to get the bags on and off
>
> I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
> What do you recommend, and why?
>
You can forget about quiet; unless you put it outside, you won't find quiet.
For under $200 you can get a Harbor Freight or something used.
Used would certainly be the best choice, but HF ought to be okay for planer
shavings; just don't put dust into it.

> My requirements:
>
> - Around $200 or less
> - Portable (on wheels)
> - Regular 120V operation
> - Fairly quiet
> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> - Easy to get the bags on and off
>

For $200...

Decent shop-vac
Cyclone separator - 4" variety
Piece of 4" DC hose and a 4" to 2.5" hose reducer - attach to exhaust
side separator
30 gal metal garbage can
Good pair of ear protectors

I use this setup myself with my planer and it does pretty well.

Ron

>
The magic number
> is 800-1000 CFM. Imagine a 10'W x 10'D x 10'H room. Per minute.
>
I never thought of it that way before; interesting. Of course, that is only
15cfs.

HerHusband wrote:
> I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
> looking for recommendations.
>
> My requirements:
>
> - Around $200 or less
> - Portable (on wheels)
> - Regular 120V operation
> - Fairly quiet
> - Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
> - Easy to get the bags on and off
>
> I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
> What do you recommend, and why?

More. Very few if any of the cheapies have the air velocity to handle a
planer.

--

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:28:58 -0500, HerHusband <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
>looking for recommendations.
>
>My requirements:
>
>- Around $200 or less
>- Portable (on wheels)
>- Regular 120V operation
>- Fairly quiet
>- Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
>- Easy to get the bags on and off
>
>I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
>What do you recommend, and why?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anthony


The $200 limit won't get you too far. Typically, low-noise appliances
cost 30% more.

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:28:58 -0500, HerHusband <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I am considering buying a duct collector for my garage workshop, and am
>looking for recommendations.
>
>My requirements:
>
>- Around $200 or less
>- Portable (on wheels)
>- Regular 120V operation
>- Fairly quiet
>- Able to accomodate the shavings from my 12" Delta planer
>- Easy to get the bags on and off
>
>I'll only be using it with one tool at a time (mostly with my planer).
>
>What do you recommend, and why?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anthony

Grizzly DCs are a good value. Get one with a little more power than
you think you need. Your planer will be louder than any DC, get ear
protection. Remote control is very convenient, I wish I got one
years ago.

"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Toller wrote:
>
>> So a shopvac moving 100cfm through a 4" hose gives much more suction than
>> a DC moving 800cfm.
>> What exactly is your definition of suction?!?!
>
> How many water column inches it can raise.
>
It might be a difficult concept, but water column inches is pretty much
irrelevant when you have free air flow, like on a planer. I am sure it is
all explained somewhere.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:32:49 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
>
> Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust
> collector (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure
> of a trashcan separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.

Probably not. The key is how you define suction.

Most people think of suction as either air speed or how much pull the
end of the hose has against your hand. But these are only components
of what really defines how much dust is collected: VOLUME OF AIR
MOVED. According to, http://yarchive.net/metal/shop_vac.html, the best
a shop vacuum can do is 140 CFM, whereas most (real) dust collectors
START at 800 CFM and go all the way up to 6,000+ CFM.

Bill Pentz Dust Collection site is a good primer:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DC4Dummies.cfm


--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:28:28 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
> digitect wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:32:49 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
>>
>>>Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust
>>>collector (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure of a
>>>trashcan separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.
>>
>> Probably not. The key is how you define suction.
>
> I'm defining suction as vacuum pressure, or water column inches, or
> something similar.

You can suck the same water column through a plastic coffee stirrer as
you can a large straw. But you would never drink through the stirrer
because you can't pull drink through it fast enough to be useful.

Same thing with a dust collector. No matter the pressure at the
motor/impeller side, through a 2-1/2" hose you simply can't pull
enough air (entrained with dust). You need at least 4" duct, but
preferably 5-6" with a motor/fan sized accordingly. The magic number
is 800-1000 CFM. Imagine a 10'W x 10'D x 10'H room. Per minute.


--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Toller wrote:
>
>> Good luck with that. A shopvac doesn't have the cfm to handle a planer,
>> and adding a trash can separator will cut what it has significantly.
>
> Given that a shop vac can deliver much more suction than a dust collector
> (albeit while moving less air) the added static pressure of a trashcan
> separator should have minimial impact on the airflow.
>
So a shopvac moving 100cfm through a 4" hose gives much more suction than a
DC moving 800cfm.
What exactly is your definition of suction?!?!

A shopvac will do better when attached to a ROS than a DC will, but that is
only because the openings are so small that the DC is starved for air. A
planer is an example of where exactly the opposite is true; the DC is 5 or
10 times better.

And if you did put a separator on the shopvac you had better seal that
sucker perfectly, as any leak will pretty much kill it. A DC doesn't much
care about small leaks.

"HerHusband" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Morris,
>
>> I've been happy with the HF 2 HP dust collector
>
> It seems a lot of people are happy with the HF dust collector. Sounds like
> a nice option in my price range.
>
>> cyclone separator lids
>
> Hmm... That may be a short term, low budget approach to collecting my
> planer shavings. I've got a nice shop vac, so adding a trash can separator
> may be all I need for now. Worst case, I could still use it if I buy a
> dust
> collector.
>
Good luck with that. A shopvac doesn't have the cfm to handle a planer, and
adding a trash can separator will cut what it has significantly.