On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> I experienced what you did with driving nails. They drove in like they
> were going into the ground, and nary a split board to be had from
> toe-nailing or end nailing.
>
> After completion and given time for the wood to dry out and shrink, the
> nails were near impossible to pull out.
It's all part of a system of building, one happily used for the last century. Ripped, torn, split wood is of little structural use when framing as you cannot rely on the adjoining surfaces being intact, in turn generating poor joinery.
You can get wood that is too green; employed as a consultant for Allied Signal/Honeywell, I was required to test out all materials (including wood) used on the roof structure to ensure that maximum moisture didn't get higher than 15%.
Green wood for framing is the right choice for the reasons you spelled out, including the observation that the wood contracts around the nail as it dries, making the mechanical fastening even stronger.
Robert
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 3/6/2016 11:08 AM, Michael wrote:
>> When you've got skills
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
> Have had the privilege of working with a few old time union carpenters
> down through the years, and that kind of skill with a framing hammer
> is becoming a lost art ... although that guy didn't look nearly as
> skilful as some I've seen.
>
> The skill to use a hammer was so important in the pre-nailgun framing
> days that carpenter's unions actually dictated the size of the framing
> carpenter's hammers; and framers would soak framing nails in buckets
> of gasoline and paraffin so they would drive easier with one lick,
> and, if you believe the CW at time, actually hold better.
>
> Another discipline that relies heavily on skill and finesse with a
> hammer is the farrier trade. Grew up on a horse farm and spent a good
> deal of my life as a young man shoeing horses, including make a living
> at it when I first got out of the service.
>
> Out of necessity when nailing in close proximity to living tissue full
> of nerves, you quickly development the ability to drive a horseshoe
> nail accurately using a combination of force, velocity, sound, and the
> feel of the resistance to each blow, in order to finesse the nail's
> exit in the proper location in the hoof.
>
> Miss the nail, the horse will react in some manner, putting you in
> danger of getting ripped and torn with a partially driven nail point;
> and badly driven nail will exit in a location that won't guarantee
> that the shoe will stay on for the usual 8 weeks between shoeing ...
> or worse, "quick" the horse, with the result that he could be put out
> of commission for days.
>
> Not something a show, or race horse owner wants to deal with.
>
> Makes you appreciate the amount of skill that can be exercised with a
> hammer. ;)
>
One of my buddies tells about spiking on the railroad. He quickly got
to the point where he could spike with 3 other guys using a spike maul
that wasn't too much bigger than the spike he was driving.
One of the things he mentions is using the natural reaction force (my
words) of the spiking to bring the maul back up. That way, he wasn't
constantly lifting the maul but using the reaction to do some of the
work for him.
Puckdropper
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/6/2016 11:59 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> One of my buddies tells about spiking on the railroad. He quickly got
>> to the point where he could spike with 3 other guys using a spike maul
>> that wasn't too much bigger than the spike he was driving.
>>
>> One of the things he mentions is using the natural reaction force (my
>> words) of the spiking to bring the maul back up. That way, he wasn't
>> constantly lifting the maul but using the reaction to do some of the
>> work for him.
>
> That's what I was talking about.
>
> It is amazing how all the intricacies of your senses come into play when
> doing something enough to have gained some skill in it ... like what
> appears to be the simple act of swinging a hammer.
>
I have always said "The mark of a skilled professional is the ability to
make the job look so easy that any beginner will think they can do it --
until they try".
On 3/6/2016 11:59 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> One of my buddies tells about spiking on the railroad. He quickly got
> to the point where he could spike with 3 other guys using a spike maul
> that wasn't too much bigger than the spike he was driving.
>
> One of the things he mentions is using the natural reaction force (my
> words) of the spiking to bring the maul back up. That way, he wasn't
> constantly lifting the maul but using the reaction to do some of the
> work for him.
That's what I was talking about.
It is amazing how all the intricacies of your senses come into play when
doing something enough to have gained some skill in it ... like what
appears to be the simple act of swinging a hammer.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
"Michael" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>When you've got skills
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
The long handled 20+ oz. hammer helps... along with soft fresh wood that
hasn't had a chance to harden with age. I remember when SPF framing
materials became common around here in lieu of Douglas Fir. The SBF was so
soft I left big dents in it with my 20 oz. so I lightened up on my hammer
blows. That was not a bad thing in regards to my joints.
On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:31:12 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3/6/2016 11:08 AM, Michael wrote:
>> When you've got skills
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
>Have had the privilege of working with a few old time union carpenters
>down through the years, and that kind of skill with a framing hammer is
>becoming a lost art ... although that guy didn't look nearly as skilful
>as some I've seen.
>
>The skill to use a hammer was so important in the pre-nailgun framing
>days that carpenter's unions actually dictated the size of the framing
>carpenter's hammers; and framers would soak framing nails in buckets of
>gasoline and paraffin so they would drive easier with one lick, and, if
>you believe the CW at time, actually hold better.
>
>Another discipline that relies heavily on skill and finesse with a
>hammer is the farrier trade. Grew up on a horse farm and spent a good
>deal of my life as a young man shoeing horses, including make a living
>at it when I first got out of the service.
>
>Out of necessity when nailing in close proximity to living tissue full
>of nerves, you quickly development the ability to drive a horseshoe nail
>accurately using a combination of force, velocity, sound, and the feel
>of the resistance to each blow, in order to finesse the nail's exit in
>the proper location in the hoof.
>
>Miss the nail, the horse will react in some manner, putting you in
>danger of getting ripped and torn with a partially driven nail point;
>and badly driven nail will exit in a location that won't guarantee that
>the shoe will stay on for the usual 8 weeks between shoeing ... or
>worse, "quick" the horse, with the result that he could be put out of
>commission for days.
>
>Not something a show, or race horse owner wants to deal with.
My (ex) SIL's brother shoed horses at Saratoga. He made really good
money by driving nails in the right place.
>
>Makes you appreciate the amount of skill that can be exercised with a
>hammer. ;)
On 3/6/2016 11:08 AM, Michael wrote:
> When you've got skills
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
Have had the privilege of working with a few old time union carpenters
down through the years, and that kind of skill with a framing hammer is
becoming a lost art ... although that guy didn't look nearly as skilful
as some I've seen.
The skill to use a hammer was so important in the pre-nailgun framing
days that carpenter's unions actually dictated the size of the framing
carpenter's hammers; and framers would soak framing nails in buckets of
gasoline and paraffin so they would drive easier with one lick, and, if
you believe the CW at time, actually hold better.
Another discipline that relies heavily on skill and finesse with a
hammer is the farrier trade. Grew up on a horse farm and spent a good
deal of my life as a young man shoeing horses, including make a living
at it when I first got out of the service.
Out of necessity when nailing in close proximity to living tissue full
of nerves, you quickly development the ability to drive a horseshoe nail
accurately using a combination of force, velocity, sound, and the feel
of the resistance to each blow, in order to finesse the nail's exit in
the proper location in the hoof.
Miss the nail, the horse will react in some manner, putting you in
danger of getting ripped and torn with a partially driven nail point;
and badly driven nail will exit in a location that won't guarantee that
the shoe will stay on for the usual 8 weeks between shoeing ... or
worse, "quick" the horse, with the result that he could be put out of
commission for days.
Not something a show, or race horse owner wants to deal with.
Makes you appreciate the amount of skill that can be exercised with a
hammer. ;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 3/6/16 7:31 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/6/2016 11:08 AM, Michael wrote:
>> When you've got skills
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
> Have had the privilege of working with a few old time union
> carpenters down through the years, and that kind of skill with a
> framing hammer is becoming a lost art ... although that guy didn't
> look nearly as skilful as some I've seen.
>
> The skill to use a hammer was so important in the pre-nailgun framing
> days that carpenter's unions actually dictated the size of the
> framing carpenter's hammers; and framers would soak framing nails in
> buckets of gasoline and paraffin so they would drive easier with one
> lick, and, if you believe the CW at time, actually hold better.
>
> Another discipline that relies heavily on skill and finesse with a
> hammer is the farrier trade. Grew up on a horse farm and spent a good
> deal of my life as a young man shoeing horses, including make a
> living at it when I first got out of the service.
>
> Out of necessity when nailing in close proximity to living tissue
> full of nerves, you quickly development the ability to drive a
> horseshoe nail accurately using a combination of force, velocity,
> sound, and the feel of the resistance to each blow, in order to
> finesse the nail's exit in the proper location in the hoof.
>
> Miss the nail, the horse will react in some manner, putting you in
> danger of getting ripped and torn with a partially driven nail point;
> and badly driven nail will exit in a location that won't guarantee
> that the shoe will stay on for the usual 8 weeks between shoeing ...
> or worse, "quick" the horse, with the result that he could be put out
> of commission for days.
>
> Not something a show, or race horse owner wants to deal with.
>
> Makes you appreciate the amount of skill that can be exercised with a
> hammer. ;)
>
Years back, I got "asked to leave" a few carnival games where the object
was to drive a 16p nail in one or however many blows to win a prize. At
a young age I had not only the necessary framing experience to know how
to drive nails, but also the strength and technique of the "whipping"
motion of an efficient drumming stroke. The two, combined, translated
into a prize-winning acumen at the nail-driving caravel booth that
wasn't much appreciated by the guys running those booths. It also
impressed the girls... the real prize a young man sought. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/7/16 7:57 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> When you've got skills
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
> The long handled 20+ oz. hammer helps... along with soft fresh wood
> that hasn't had a chance to harden with age. I remember when SPF
> framing materials became common around here in lieu of Douglas Fir.
> The SBF was so soft I left big dents in it with my 20 oz. so I
> lightened up on my hammer blows. That was not a bad thing in regards
> to my joints.
>
You speak the truth. When I guilt my first home (wow, has it been?) 20
years ago, I built a Sharn (too big for a shed, too small for a barn)
behind it. First, I wish I would've built it before the house. It
would've been nice to have somewhere to store stuff and get in from the
rain. But I digress.
I got all the untreated framing lumber for the Sharn from a local
sawyer. It was all fresh cut white pine. That was the first time I
ever worked with green lumber and man, was it a pleasure. Every board
was straight as an arrow-- flat and true. Heavy as oak from still being
green, but a welcome trade-off.
I experienced what you did with driving nails. They drove in like they
were going into the ground, and nary a split board to be had from
toe-nailing or end nailing.
After completion and given time for the wood to dry out and shrink, the
nails were near impossible to pull out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/7/16 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> I experienced what you did with driving nails. They drove in like
>> they were going into the ground, and nary a split board to be had
>> from toe-nailing or end nailing.
>>
>> After completion and given time for the wood to dry out and shrink,
>> the nails were near impossible to pull out.
>
> Green wood for framing is the right choice for the reasons you
> spelled out, including the observation that the wood contracts around
> the nail as it dries, making the mechanical fastening even stronger.
>
> Robert
>
The only downside was that the joists hadn't developed a discernible
crown yet.
I had to read the grain carefully to predict which direction they would
eventually bow.
I also had to be sure to use a waterproof adhesive on the gussets when
building my gambrel trusses for its roof.
All in all, I would love to build with fresh cut lumber again.
Oh, and all the lumber was nominal-- the 2x10's were 2x10. And cheap.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/7/16 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/7/16 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> I experienced what you did with driving nails. They drove in like
>>> they were going into the ground, and nary a split board to be had
>>> from toe-nailing or end nailing.
>>>
>>> After completion and given time for the wood to dry out and shrink,
>>> the nails were near impossible to pull out.
>>
>> Green wood for framing is the right choice for the reasons you
>> spelled out, including the observation that the wood contracts around
>> the nail as it dries, making the mechanical fastening even stronger.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> The only downside was that the joists hadn't developed a discernible
> crown yet.
> I had to read the grain carefully to predict which direction they would
> eventually bow.
> I also had to be sure to use a waterproof adhesive on the gussets when
> building my gambrel trusses for its roof.
>
> All in all, I would love to build with fresh cut lumber again.
> Oh, and all the lumber was nominal-- the 2x10's were 2x10. And cheap.
>
Correction: now that I think about it, they were nominal in depth.
Their widths were about 1/4" over. So 1-3/4x10.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>> When you've got skills
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
>A nail gun would just get in the way... ; )
.. is it punky wood - just for show ?
John T.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
Pine. Green pine is that way and then the resin starts
to harden and the board gets hard.
Living in a Piney Woods of East Texas one sees trucks of
pine boards driving to build a house. This is lumber and
Power poles / telephone pole production in this town. GP is
making boards and my friends over in the pole place is making poles.
Martin
On 3/6/2016 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>> When you've got skills
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afiQPqOwHQ&t=5m15s
>
>
>>
>> A nail gun would just get in the way... ; )
>
>
> .. is it punky wood - just for show ?
> John T.
>
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
>