Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
I did order the book: "Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and Woodworking:
A Yankee Craftsman's Practical Methods", by Steve Olesin, today. I'm
pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it--easy to spend $16.50 for that at
Amazon. I think it would be easy to buy the plane too if I "save up"
for it. : )
One of my crazier thoughts this week was thinking about the Roy
Underhill-style "spring pole lathe". He writes that he modeled his
after a German design. Just thinking about the mechanics of the thing
is an interesting enough sideline for now. Even more interesting than
the "stick deer" that some people in my neighborhood put out for
Christmas--it's not easy to keep up with the Jones' out here in the
midwest!
Bill
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
>those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
>don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
>one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
>including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
>course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
>
>Bill
A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block Planes". Here
was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are considering a
plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is similar
in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work to do
on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it that
often.
See comments below.
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]> wrote:
>With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good block
>plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
>probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in the
>same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
>I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional need
>to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. That & the occasional sticky
>door.
>
>In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
>adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
>grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
>low angle?
>
>Thoughts, comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Doug White
Low angle planes are a definite plus when it comes to end grain. I like the
adjustable mouth to take fine shaving and I think it helps reduce tearout when
planing long grain.
As much as I love the LN and LV planes (I have the LV medium shoulder plane), if
money is any type of an object, I would recommend buying a user grade Stanley 65
/ 65-1/2 or 60 / 60-1/2, the older the better for your block plane. The older
they are, the more metal there is in the mouth for support. You might also
consider an apron plane like a Miller Falls #5..
If you search the bay regularly and are patient, you can snare a decent user
grade 65 for $35 or so, delivered. 60 is less.
Expect to have to clean, sharpen and fettle virtually any plane you buy, new or
used. LV, LN or Clifton and other extremely high quality planes will require
minimal tuning. Remember, when you buy a plane, you are actually buying a kit.
LV, LN and Clifton are just very, very well done kits.
You didn't ask about bench planes, but after you have your first plane, you have
started down a slippery slope, so here's take on bench planes. The Stanley
types 9-14 were probably the best they made. Numbers 3, 4 and 5 (smoothers and
q jack plane, Jeff) are available on ebay at excellent prices if you are patient
and willing to do some rehab.
You should be able to find one of these for $30 or less, and it is a better made
plane than any I have seen offered by the major woodworking chains until you get
to the quality level of a LN or LV. Yes, you have to spend a few hours
flattening soles and fitting the frog and cleaning and maybe gluing up the tote.
But you have to do that to anything you buy that costs less than the LV or LN
(except for gluing up the tote).
One thing I have noted about the well-used planes I've acquired. They were well
used by the person who owned them and made a living with them. They often are
well fettled. I have a #5 Stanley that arrived in fine fettle. Not a machine
mark on the top or bottom of the frog or the mating area on the sole. The sole
is flat, the sides are square and the lever cap operates with just a bit of
pressure and that is all that is needed since it is so well tuned. No need for
a Hock blade on this plane. Half the japanning is gone, the tote is chipped and
had a crack repaired, and overall appearance is rather ugly. But it sure is a
pleasure to use.
(I do not collect planes either, I do not collect planes either, I do not.....)
Regards,
Roy
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
Yeah, "Hecho en India" for top quality!
>those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
>don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
>one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
>including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
>course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
That's about $68 too much money to spend on it. Unless you just want
to learn the hard way about planes and planing, goto eBay and find
some rusty old arn with a Satanley name on it, Bill. Half of 'em are
still in tune from the last guys who owned 'em.
>I did order the book: "Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and Woodworking:
>A Yankee Craftsman's Practical Methods", by Steve Olesin, today. I'm
>pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it--easy to spend $16.50 for that at
>Amazon. I think it would be easy to buy the plane too if I "save up"
>for it. : )
Again, check www.eBay.com and then search www.isbn.nu or
www.AbeBooks.com for cheaper copies. I seldom spend more than $5 on a
book, often just a penny, plus $3.99 s/h.
>One of my crazier thoughts this week was thinking about the Roy
>Underhill-style "spring pole lathe". He writes that he modeled his
>after a German design. Just thinking about the mechanics of the thing
>is an interesting enough sideline for now. Even more interesting than
>the "stick deer" that some people in my neighborhood put out for
>Christmas--it's not easy to keep up with the Jones' out here in the
>midwest!
Roy has written half a dozen great books on handmade tools. Check
those out for Christmas presents from your family, too. Submit your
Amazon/eBay/ISBN.nu wishlists to them often and early! DAMHIKT
--
Education is when you read the fine print.
Experience is what you get if you don't.
-- Pete Seeger
On 2010-11-20 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> said:
> Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
> those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
> don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
> one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
> including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
> course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
Don't know anything about this brand, but I threw away about as much on
a Groz... Spend a little more and get a Stanley 93, Lie-Neilsen, or
Veritas. I'm leaning to Rabbet Block Plane, though the Veritas Large
Shoulder plane is sweet (and the minature is not only unbelievably
cute, but as someone noted here, emminently usable). The Groz is now
usable, but it's taken some work correcting the shape of the mouth and
the chip breaker. The bullnose position for the blade remains totally
useless. The tool just has no feeling of balance.
>
> I did order the book: "Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and
> Woodworking: A Yankee Craftsman's Practical Methods", by Steve Olesin,
> today. I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it--easy to spend $16.50 for
> that at Amazon. I think it would be easy to buy the plane too if I
> "save up" for it. : )
Sounds interesting, though Larry Jacques' online suggestions have merit.
Don't forget, Bill, you are near a Half-Price Books location -- Almost
never do I leave with fewer than three good purchases, and that's just
counting the woodworking books. Today, I sublimented those with a
mystery set in Venice... since it's doubtful I'm going to be able to
get back to Italy in the near future.
>
> One of my crazier thoughts this week was thinking about the Roy
> Underhill-style "spring pole lathe". He writes that he modeled his
> after a German design. Just thinking about the mechanics of the thing
> is an interesting enough sideline for now. Even more interesting than
> the "stick deer" that some people in my neighborhood put out for
> Christmas--it's not easy to keep up with the Jones' out here in the
> midwest!
Forget the decorations unless you build them. As for Underhill's books,
see my last paragraph. You might find one -- stock changes quickly.
>
> Bill
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:02:57 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Again, check www.eBay.com and then search www.isbn.nu or
>> www.AbeBooks.com for cheaper copies. I seldom spend more than $5 on a
>> book, often just a penny, plus $3.99 s/h.
>
>
>The penny thing on Amazon is a case of folks being too cute for their own
>good. What I suspect is happening is sellers are using software to maintain
>their price one penny less than the previous low. If you get two or more of
>them doing this, the price quickly drops to a penny. I've seen it in action
>when I tried to sell something. If you are a seller and run into price
>lowering competition all you can do is hope a buyer shows up before the
>guy's software kicks in.
I like the price, though. For buyers, it's great. For (many) sellers,
disaster.
--
Education is when you read the fine print.
Experience is what you get if you don't.
-- Pete Seeger
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:16 -0600, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 11/20/2010 10:15 PM, Roy wrote:
>> The Stanley types 9-14 were probably the best they made.
>
>With the exception of the type 12, where the "tall" front knob was introduced.
> The knobs are prone to breaking at the base, a problem that was mostly fixed
>by the type 13 when Stanley altered the casting of the base to incorporate a
>circular "receptacle" to receive the knob and protect it around its perimeter.
Steve,
I don't have a type 12 in any size. I have a #5, #6 and #7 type 11 all with
the high front knob, but always thought those were replacements. All have the
smaller brass adjusting nut, so they are T11's. I don't suppose you'd have an
extra T12 or two setting around, would you? Anybody?
I actually do not collect planes. I ask this as more in the spirit of a, um,
science experiment.
Regards,
Roy
Larry Jaques wrote:
> Roy has written half a dozen great books on handmade tools.
I finished reading his first book, published in 1981, a few days ago
("Practical Guide to Traditional Woodcraft"). That's why I was hungry
for a new book to fill its place. As you know, he starts many of his
projects with fresh green wood, I mean trees, which gives the modern
urbanite a different point of view. He describes two different ways to
build a log cabin in about 10 pages or so. He also described how to
build a shaving horse and discusses blacksmithing.
Which of his books stands out in your mind regarding handmade tools?
Did you make any?
Bill
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
>
> Yeah, "Hecho en India" for top quality!
>
>
>>those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
>>don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
>>one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
>>including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
>>course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
>
> That's about $68 too much money to spend on it. Unless you just want
> to learn the hard way about planes and planing, goto eBay and find
> some rusty old arn with a Satanley name on it, Bill. Half of 'em are
> still in tune from the last guys who owned 'em.
>
>
>>I did order the book: "Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and Woodworking:
>>A Yankee Craftsman's Practical Methods", by Steve Olesin, today. I'm
>>pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it--easy to spend $16.50 for that at
>>Amazon. I think it would be easy to buy the plane too if I "save up"
>>for it. : )
>
> Again, check www.eBay.com and then search www.isbn.nu or
> www.AbeBooks.com for cheaper copies. I seldom spend more than $5 on a
> book, often just a penny, plus $3.99 s/h.
The penny thing on Amazon is a case of folks being too cute for their own
good. What I suspect is happening is sellers are using software to maintain
their price one penny less than the previous low. If you get two or more of
them doing this, the price quickly drops to a penny. I've seen it in action
when I tried to sell something. If you are a seller and run into price
lowering competition all you can do is hope a buyer shows up before the
guy's software kicks in.
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
Larry Jaques wrote:
> Yuppers. I made a shaving horse, too. I cheated (with a tubasix) and
> made legs from some of my Lombardy poplar cuttings.
Cool! Good idea using a 2by6--extra trees are not overabundant in my
neck of the city either. Though I'm going to start opening my eyes
wider. Make anything with your shaving horse?
Bill
Roy wrote:
> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block Planes". Here
> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are considering a
> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is similar
> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work to do
> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it that
> often.
>
<< snip >>
> Regards,
> Roy
>
Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still
not-collecting planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to
pull down Hack's book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago,
but I'm sure I'd get something new from reading it again at this point.
I went to Martin J. Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month
and found a whole room full of non-collectors!
Bill
Steve wrote:
> On 2010-11-20 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
>> those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
>> don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
>> one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
>> including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
>> course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
>
> Don't know anything about this brand, but I threw away about as much on
> a Groz... Spend a little more and get a Stanley 93, Lie-Neilsen, or
> Veritas.
I take it for granted that you mean a *vintage* Stanley 93. I'll be
looking. I think the Veritas is $145 or so. It pushes me to the point
of pondering how good of a (wooden) plane-maker I could be! :)
Bill
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve wrote:
>> On 2010-11-20 00:27:32 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>>
>>> Anant Model #77 (not the tiny A77). I was thinking of getting one of
>>> those for myself for Christmas for shaving large tenons/shoulders. I
>>> don't have a block plane, I suppose the #77 might work in a pinch for
>>> one of those as long as I wasn't cutting end grain. It's about $70
>>> including shipping. 1.125" blade all of the way to the side (of
>>> course...), removable "bull nose".. Go ahead--talk me out of it! : )
>>
>> Don't know anything about this brand, but I threw away about as much on
>> a Groz... Spend a little more and get a Stanley 93, Lie-Neilsen, or
>> Veritas.
>
> I take it for granted that you mean a *vintage* Stanley 93. I'll be
> looking. I think the Veritas is $145 or so. It pushes me to the point of
> pondering how good of a (wooden) plane-maker I could be! :)
>
> Bill
I think the simplest wooden planes are the Krenov planes. Have you read
Krenov? IIRC he shows how to build one in his first book. Title escapes me
at the moment but someone will know.
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
"Roy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip>
> (I do not collect planes either, I do not collect planes either, I do
> not.....)
Neither do I, but I've got a couple of molding planes from c.a. 1750-1780
that still work shave a nice curl ...
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Roy wrote:
>
>> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block
>> Planes". Here
>> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are
>> considering a
>> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is
>> similar
>> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work
>> to do
>> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it
>> that
>> often.
>>
> << snip >>
>> Regards,
>> Roy
>>
>
> Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
> took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
> ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
> continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still not-collecting
> planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to pull down Hack's
> book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago, but I'm sure I'd
> get something new from reading it again at this point. I went to Martin J.
> Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month and found a whole room
> full of non-collectors!
>
> Bill
When you look on e-bay, be sure to check worldwide. Some good stuff in UK
now and then,
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
Roy wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:51:58 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Roy wrote:
>>
>>> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block Planes". Here
>>> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are considering a
>>> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is similar
>>> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work to do
>>> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it that
>>> often.
>>>
>> << snip>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Roy
>>>
>>
>> Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
>> took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
>> ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
>> continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still
>> not-collecting planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to
>> pull down Hack's book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago,
>> but I'm sure I'd get something new from reading it again at this point.
>> I went to Martin J. Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month
>> and found a whole room full of non-collectors!
>>
>> Bill
>
> Can't find exactly what you want and feeling Galootish? Build your own!
>
> I belong to a subgroup of members in the local woodworking club who like old
> tools. We call ourselves a Splinter Group (I'll pause while all y'all recover
> from that bit of woodworking humor there) and specialize in hand tools. We
> celebrate 5 years as a splinter group in January.
>
> We're fixing to start our second round of building wooden hand planes. This is
> a bunch of links for "How-To" info. The Krenov style are not that difficult to
> build. Put a Hock blade in it and Bob's your uncle. Search the web for price
> comparisons on the blades.
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Finally, here's my list of How to Build a Plane links. There is a lot of good
> info here. The Popular Mechanics site has a very good plan.. Popular WW also
> had a good article Free stuff listed first, books at end.
>
> Wooden plane - Krenov technique
> http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=800
>
>
> Toothing/Scraping plane
> http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwtoothingplane.html
>
>
> Philly style jack plane
> http://www.mwells.org/woodworking/planemaking/philly-style-jack-plane
>
>
> Benchtop spill plane
> http://swingleydev.com/woodworking/benchtop_spill_plane.php
>
>
> Handplane central. Lots of info. Lock your wallet before entering.
> http://www.handplane.com/category/planemaking
>
>
> Wow, lots and lots to read here. New to me.
> http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Handplanes.aspx
>
>
> Scrap wood scraper plane
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Scrapwood_Scraper_Plane/
>
>
> The November 2009 issue of Popular Woodworking pages 45 to 47 has an article
> titled "Making Totes& Knobs for Handplanes". Great little jig design to help
> things along is included. Also, Lee Valley Tools Ltd have (free) detailed
> drawings of each of the Stanley totes on their website - different plans for the
> different Stanley numbered planes. Much easier to print and start making the
> tote as no tracing of the old tote is needed!
> http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/hand-plane-restoration-parts-107107/index2.html
>
>
> All kinds of hand tool links
> http://sonic.net/boyett/hand_woodworking.htm
>
>
> How to build 3 basic hand planes (GREAT PLANS)
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/woodworking/1273456?click=main_sr
> direct link to plans:
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/7E/tb_lg_plans-lg-1.jpg
>
> Krenov style - Jim Hinze
> http://jjblack.net/PlaneMakingClass/KrenovPalneClassWithJimHinze.html
>
>
> Make your own plane
> http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/howplane.html
>
> Books:
> http://www.amazon.com/Making-Traditional-Wooden-Planes-Whelan/dp/1879335697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1290360479&sr=1-1
>
> Great book for the money. I have a copy. Goes far beyond the Krenov style
> planes.
>
> http://www.davidfinck.com/book.htm
> $25 from the author, $75 on Amazon. The bible for making Krenov style planes.
> I don't have a copy, but Mark does.
>
>
>
>
Thank you for all of the links/info. I saved a copy on my desktop. I've
recently been reading one you mentioned above: "Making Traditional
Wooden Planes", by Whelan. As you already know, he suggests that the
best way to make a plane is to already have one like the one you're
trying to make. I'll just have to ignore that little aside for now.
Bill
Bill wrote:
> Roy wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:51:58 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Roy wrote:
_____________________________________________________________
>> Finally, here's my list of How to Build a Plane links. There is a lot
>> of good
>> info here. The Popular Mechanics site has a very good plan.. Popular
>> WW also
>> had a good article Free stuff listed first, books at end.
>>
>> Wooden plane - Krenov technique
>> http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=800
>>
>>
>> Toothing/Scraping plane
>> http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwtoothingplane.html
>>
>>
>> Philly style jack plane
>> http://www.mwells.org/woodworking/planemaking/philly-style-jack-plane
>>
>>
>> Benchtop spill plane
>> http://swingleydev.com/woodworking/benchtop_spill_plane.php
>>
>>
>> Handplane central. Lots of info. Lock your wallet before entering.
>> http://www.handplane.com/category/planemaking
>>
>>
>> Wow, lots and lots to read here. New to me.
>> http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Handplanes.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> Scrap wood scraper plane
>> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Scrapwood_Scraper_Plane/
>>
>>
>> The November 2009 issue of Popular Woodworking pages 45 to 47 has an
>> article
>> titled "Making Totes& Knobs for Handplanes". Great little jig design
>> to help
>> things along is included. Also, Lee Valley Tools Ltd have (free) detailed
>> drawings of each of the Stanley totes on their website - different
>> plans for the
>> different Stanley numbered planes. Much easier to print and start
>> making the
>> tote as no tracing of the old tote is needed!
>> http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/hand-plane-restoration-parts-107107/index2.html
>>
>>
>>
>> All kinds of hand tool links
>> http://sonic.net/boyett/hand_woodworking.htm
>>
>>
>> How to build 3 basic hand planes (GREAT PLANS)
>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/woodworking/1273456?click=main_sr
>>
>> direct link to plans:
>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/7E/tb_lg_plans-lg-1.jpg
>>
>>
>> Krenov style - Jim Hinze
>> http://jjblack.net/PlaneMakingClass/KrenovPalneClassWithJimHinze.html
>>
>>
>> Make your own plane
>> http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/howplane.html
>>
>> Books:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Making-Traditional-Wooden-Planes-Whelan/dp/1879335697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1290360479&sr=1-1
>>
>>
>> Great book for the money. I have a copy. Goes far beyond the Krenov style
>> planes.
>>
>> http://www.davidfinck.com/book.htm
>> $25 from the author, $75 on Amazon. The bible for making Krenov style
>> planes.
>> I don't have a copy, but Mark does.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thank you for all of the links/info. I saved a copy on my desktop. I've
> recently been reading one you mentioned above: "Making Traditional
> Wooden Planes", by Whelan. As you already know, he suggests that the
> best way to make a plane is to already have one like the one you're
> trying to make. I'll just have to ignore that little aside for now.
>
> Bill
Roy, BTW, I was just re-reading a post you made here on 2/10/10 which
compared the "practicality" of Finck's book to that of Whelan's book.
Thus you can assume that I remember the differences between them that
you mentioned verbatim!
Bill
"Roy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 00:17:28 -0800, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Roy wrote:
>>>
>>>> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block
>>>> Planes". Here
>>>> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are
>>>> considering a
>>>> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is
>>>> similar
>>>> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of
>>>> work
>>>> to do
>>>> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use
>>>> it
>>>> that
>>>> often.
>>>>
>>> << snip >>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Roy
>>>>
>>>
>>> Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
>>> took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
>>> ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
>>> continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still
>>> not-collecting
>>> planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to pull down Hack's
>>> book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago, but I'm sure I'd
>>> get something new from reading it again at this point. I went to Martin
>>> J.
>>> Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month and found a whole
>>> room
>>> full of non-collectors!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>>
>>When you look on e-bay, be sure to check worldwide. Some good stuff in UK
>>now and then,
>
> Yea, but shipping can be a killer. I got a set of plough plane irons and
> a
> dovetail saw from the UK. Shipping was as much as the purchase price. I
> thought about the lower surface rate, but that can take up to 90 days.
I think UK shipping rates went up this year. As far as surface goes, my
experience has been 60 days or less for three items this year. The other EU
countries seem to have better postage rates - Germany.
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
On 11/20/2010 10:15 PM, Roy wrote:
> The Stanley types 9-14 were probably the best they made.
With the exception of the type 12, where the "tall" front knob was introduced.
The knobs are prone to breaking at the base, a problem that was mostly fixed
by the type 13 when Stanley altered the casting of the base to incorporate a
circular "receptacle" to receive the knob and protect it around its perimeter.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Roy wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:52:09 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
> (huge snip of some breathtaking prose)
>
>>>
>>> Thank you for all of the links/info. I saved a copy on my desktop. I've
>>> recently been reading one you mentioned above: "Making Traditional
>>> Wooden Planes", by Whelan. As you already know, he suggests that the
>>> best way to make a plane is to already have one like the one you're
>>> trying to make. I'll just have to ignore that little aside for now.
>
> I will be making a spill plane, and will be doing the same as you. I have
> never actually seen one in the flesh, and will be working from a drawing and a
> picture.
>>> Bill
>>
>> Roy, BTW, I was just re-reading a post you made here on 2/10/10 which
>> compared the "practicality" of Finck's book to that of Whelan's book.
>> Thus you can assume that I remember the differences between them that
>> you mentioned verbatim!
>>
>> Bill
>
> I'd forgotten that post. Alzheimers kicking in again. I can take a hint and
> will shut up now.
I absolutely did not mean that at all! I always learn something from
your posts--keep them coming please! I just didn't want you to rework a
nicely written essay you already wrote when I could just repost it.
Here is is for everyone who is interested, it deserves a repost:
From: "Roy" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 2 Books on wooden planes
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:27 AM
On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:52:21 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Making Traditional Wooden Planes, by John Whelan
>Making and Mastering Wooden Planes (Rev. Ed.), by David Finck
>
>Can anyone provide a short comparison or review of the 2 wooden hand
>plane books I mentioned at the top?
>
>Bill
I have both books. As someone already mentioned, the Finck book
stresses Krenov style planes. The
author assumes the reader does have a great deal of expertise with hand
planes, and covers all the
fundamentals that apply to both metal and wooden planes There is a lot
of background info provided
as it takes until page 72 to start discussing building a plane and wraps
it up in 50 pages. The
last 50ish pages are devoted to plane and scraper techniques.
There are a lot of illustrations and photos, some in color. I
personally don't care for the
esthetics of the Krenov style plane, however, they work well and that is
the important point to most
people. The book does devote a good amount of space to tuning and
tweaking a wooden plane, and also
discussing technique. It also has a chapter on sharpening and using
scrapers. I have not done a
good job reading this book since I only have an electronic copy picked
up from one of the alt
groups, and I don't really like electronic books for serious study The
book is out of print and is
listed used on Amazon ranging from $65 to $141 plus shipping.
However, I have been working on catching up with unread messages, and
recently saw a post from a
Galoot on another list to alert us that Dave Finck has apparently self
published a new edition of
the book. You can buy it directly from him for $25. I need to order a
hard copy myself. His
blades are supposed to be very good too, but I have no first hand
experience with them. Good site
to browse while you're buying the book.
http://www.davidfinck.com/book.htm
The Whelan book is not nearly as fancy as the Finck book. No glossy
photos, no color, no slick
paper. But it does have about 130 pages of good, solid instruction
about plane making. The author
assumes you are no beginner to woodworking and know something of the
care and feeding of wood
planes. The only introductory material consists of a few pages to make
sure the reader is aware of
the terminology,history and materials used by the old-timers. A
whopping four and a half pages are
devoted to tuning a wooden plane.
Page 17 starts with making a laminated (Krenov) style plane. Page 22
begins a two piece Jack plane,
and the rest of the book is devoted to traditional plane making methods
for another 17 or so
different planes. Additional types discussed are smoother, jointer,
bullnose, boxmaker, various
edge treatment planes, dado and various plow planes plus fences. The
instructions and drawings are
not particularly detailed. However, if you have a copy of the plane you
want to recreate in front
of you for reference, the discussion in the book is pretty clear. The
author states in the summary
that he hopes people will be creative, and not just copy, which is why
there are not detailed
dimensions,
If you're interested in building just one or two block or bench planes
in your life, you will not
need the Whelan book. However, if you are a Galoot at heart, you will
want, nay, need it. Then you
need to buy some more tools like floats and planemaker's saws and
chisels, which like clamps, are
always insufficiently inventoried.
Check out the following site for some beautiful hand made tools,
including planes. Derek is
extremely talented and energetic. Going through his site is a joy,
especially when you keep in mind
this is just his hobby, and only does this in his spare time. I don't
think he sleeps. Go to the
"Shopmade Tools" heading to see his planes. Check out the mesquite jack
plane way down at the
bottom of the list. Love the razee style.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/index.html
Crap, I didn't mean to blather on. Buy both books. It's only money and
another couple steps down
that slope. There's a bunch of us already part way down the hill
waiting on you.
Regards,
Roy
> Looks like you're standing on a highly greased steep slope
> all on your own. Best of luck! Post pictures of whatever you buy or build.
> Most of all, have fun. Life is too short not to.
>
> Regards,
> Roy
Thanks! I'm pretty sure I've got a few trips and falls ahead of me if
that what you mean! :)
Bill
Roy wrote:
> I will be making a spill plane, and will be doing the same as you. I have
> never actually seen one in the flesh, and will be working from a drawing and a
> picture.
Here's a link in case I'm wasn't the only one who doesn't know what a
"spill plane" is/does:
http://toolmonger.com/2009/11/18/its-just-cool-spill-plane/
Roy must have a pretty complete tool collection for a "non-collector"!
Bill
Roy wrote:
> Looks like you're standing on a highly greased steep slope
> all on your own. Best of luck! Post pictures of whatever you buy or build.
> Most of all, have fun. Life is too short not to.
>
> Regards,
> Roy
Talk is cheap. Hopefully I'll be able to deliver. Like lots of others
folks, I would probably progress faster if I didn't have a job! :)
These days, I'm thankful to have one though.
Bill
On 11/21/2010 9:39 PM, Roy wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:32:16 -0600, Steve Turner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/20/2010 10:15 PM, Roy wrote:
>>> The Stanley types 9-14 were probably the best they made.
>>
>> With the exception of the type 12, where the "tall" front knob was introduced.
>> The knobs are prone to breaking at the base, a problem that was mostly fixed
>> by the type 13 when Stanley altered the casting of the base to incorporate a
>> circular "receptacle" to receive the knob and protect it around its perimeter.
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't have a type 12 in any size. I have a #5, #6 and #7 type 11 all with
> the high front knob, but always thought those were replacements. All have the
> smaller brass adjusting nut, so they are T11's. I don't suppose you'd have an
> extra T12 or two setting around, would you? Anybody?
>
> I actually do not collect planes. I ask this as more in the spirit of a, um,
> science experiment.
>
> Regards,
> Roy
No, I don't have any type 12 planes; mine are (almost) all type 11s, but I have
a couple of type 9s and 10s, and various later types (14-17) as well. Yours
all have three patent dates behind the frog? If so, they could be either type
11 or 12; I don't think the castings are any different between those two types.
Also, since all the rest of the parts are interchangeable it's not uncommon
to see "half-breed" variants of these types, and supposedly many of them came
from the factory that way, as the newer parts (tall front knob, larger depth
adjustment nut, modified lever cap, logo changes on the cutters) were staged in
to replace the old.
The front knobs on your planes could be replacements (in which case the
hold-down screw would have to be a replacement as well), but they just as
easily could be type 12s before Stanley ran out of small depth adjustment knobs
and switched to the larger version. Most type 11s also had the V-shaped logo
on the cutter.
I was pretty sure Stanley had introduced the "raised ring" receptacle into the
casting with the type 13, but I'm reading one of the "type studies" I've stowed
away and it claims that the ring was actually introduced with the type 14...
Once again, my memory ain't what it used to be. :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 11/21/2010 9:46 PM, Bill wrote:
> Roy wrote:
>> Looks like you're standing on a highly greased steep slope
>> all on your own. Best of luck! Post pictures of whatever you buy or
>> build.
>> Most of all, have fun. Life is too short not to.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Roy
>
Beginning with little more than intent, what a complex web we weave...
You can ask anyone here about the wiring and drywall skills I learned
here last summer... One of the longest threads on the Wreck..LOL. I'll
post a picture of the results after I paint. You helped bring me up to
speed on the Stanley 60, 60 1/2, 62, 62 1/2 block planes and a bunch of
other stuff. Bunch of fine folks here. I am however trying to get my
money back from one of them folks who sold me the mineral rights to 10
acres of swamp land in Arizona! ;) Having fun!
Bill
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 19:19:15 -0600, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 11/20/2010 8:56 PM, Steve wrote:
>> Sounds interesting, though Larry Jacques' online suggestions have merit.
>
>No no no! There is no 'c' in "Larry Jaques". That's why they call him
>"C-less", don'cha know. :-)
That's right. Everyone confuses me with that Cousteau guy.
--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:51:58 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Roy wrote:
>
>> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block Planes". Here
>> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are considering a
>> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is similar
>> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work to do
>> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it that
>> often.
>>
><< snip >>
>> Regards,
>> Roy
>>
>
>Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
>took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
>ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
>continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still
>not-collecting planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to
>pull down Hack's book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago,
>but I'm sure I'd get something new from reading it again at this point.
>I went to Martin J. Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month
>and found a whole room full of non-collectors!
>
>Bill
Can't find exactly what you want and feeling Galootish? Build your own!
I belong to a subgroup of members in the local woodworking club who like old
tools. We call ourselves a Splinter Group (I'll pause while all y'all recover
from that bit of woodworking humor there) and specialize in hand tools. We
celebrate 5 years as a splinter group in January.
We're fixing to start our second round of building wooden hand planes. This is
a bunch of links for "How-To" info. The Krenov style are not that difficult to
build. Put a Hock blade in it and Bob's your uncle. Search the web for price
comparisons on the blades.
_____________________________________________________________
Finally, here's my list of How to Build a Plane links. There is a lot of good
info here. The Popular Mechanics site has a very good plan.. Popular WW also
had a good article Free stuff listed first, books at end.
Wooden plane - Krenov technique
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=800
Toothing/Scraping plane
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwtoothingplane.html
Philly style jack plane
http://www.mwells.org/woodworking/planemaking/philly-style-jack-plane
Benchtop spill plane
http://swingleydev.com/woodworking/benchtop_spill_plane.php
Handplane central. Lots of info. Lock your wallet before entering.
http://www.handplane.com/category/planemaking
Wow, lots and lots to read here. New to me.
http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Handplanes.aspx
Scrap wood scraper plane
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Scrapwood_Scraper_Plane/
The November 2009 issue of Popular Woodworking pages 45 to 47 has an article
titled "Making Totes & Knobs for Handplanes". Great little jig design to help
things along is included. Also, Lee Valley Tools Ltd have (free) detailed
drawings of each of the Stanley totes on their website - different plans for the
different Stanley numbered planes. Much easier to print and start making the
tote as no tracing of the old tote is needed!
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/hand-plane-restoration-parts-107107/index2.html
All kinds of hand tool links
http://sonic.net/boyett/hand_woodworking.htm
How to build 3 basic hand planes (GREAT PLANS)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/woodworking/1273456?click=main_sr
direct link to plans:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/7E/tb_lg_plans-lg-1.jpg
Krenov style - Jim Hinze
http://jjblack.net/PlaneMakingClass/KrenovPalneClassWithJimHinze.html
Make your own plane
http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/howplane.html
Books:
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Traditional-Wooden-Planes-Whelan/dp/1879335697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1290360479&sr=1-1
Great book for the money. I have a copy. Goes far beyond the Krenov style
planes.
http://www.davidfinck.com/book.htm
$25 from the author, $75 on Amazon. The bible for making Krenov style planes.
I don't have a copy, but Mark does.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 00:17:28 -0800, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Roy wrote:
>>
>>> A couple weeks ago we had a thread that was similar called "Block
>>> Planes". Here
>>> was my take on it. The same holds for your question. You are
>>> considering a
>>> plane kit. I have not fiddled with this particular plane, but if it is
>>> similar
>>> in quality to their other plane kits, you have one hell of a lot of work
>>> to do
>>> on it. I have the LV medium shoulder plane and love it, but don't use it
>>> that
>>> often.
>>>
>> << snip >>
>>> Regards,
>>> Roy
>>>
>>
>> Roy, I read your post on block planes the first time it went around. I
>> took notes from it and it ended up filling an entire evening looking at
>> ebay planes, Patrick's Stanley site, etc.! Good stuff! The game
>> continues and is alive and well here! I hope you are still not-collecting
>> planes. :) Some of tonight's posts have caused me to pull down Hack's
>> book on Hand Planes. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago, but I'm sure I'd
>> get something new from reading it again at this point. I went to Martin J.
>> Donnelly's Antique Tool Auction earlier this month and found a whole room
>> full of non-collectors!
>>
>> Bill
>
>
>When you look on e-bay, be sure to check worldwide. Some good stuff in UK
>now and then,
Yea, but shipping can be a killer. I got a set of plough plane irons and a
dovetail saw from the UK. Shipping was as much as the purchase price. I
thought about the lower surface rate, but that can take up to 90 days. If you
buy something really light it is not too painful usually. We won't talk about
the stateside whackos that want $15-20 to ship a #65 that will fit in the $5 box
with packing if you disassemble it.
I'm rather disgusted with the bay lately since they have made it so difficult to
send questions to sellers with their audio-only message verification process.
On the plus side for buyers, I'm not driving the price up on a dozen or more
things each week.
(I do not collect planes, chisels, saw vices, saws, saw sets, plumb bobs,
etc......I do not collect planes, or folding rules, forgot the folding rules for
a minute there, chisels, saw vices, saws, saw sets, plumb bobs, etc.....I do not
collect planes, oh, and braces, and bits, and pliers, and probably a couple
other things, but they are all users, honest, chisels, saw vices, saws, saw
sets, plumb bobs, etc......).
Regards,
Roy
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:36:18 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Yuppers. I made a shaving horse, too. I cheated (with a tubasix) and
>> made legs from some of my Lombardy poplar cuttings.
>
>Cool! Good idea using a 2by6--extra trees are not overabundant in my
>neck of the city either. Though I'm going to start opening my eyes
>wider. Make anything with your shaving horse?
Yeah, I've used it for holding parts from numerous projects for about
a decade and a half now. Whenever I need a third hand, it's there!
--
Education is when you read the fine print.
Experience is what you get if you don't.
-- Pete Seeger
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:50:16 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Roy has written half a dozen great books on handmade tools.
>
>
>I finished reading his first book, published in 1981, a few days ago
>("Practical Guide to Traditional Woodcraft"). That's why I was hungry
>for a new book to fill its place. As you know, he starts many of his
>projects with fresh green wood, I mean trees, which gives the modern
>urbanite a different point of view. He describes two different ways to
>build a log cabin in about 10 pages or so. He also described how to
>build a shaving horse and discusses blacksmithing.
Yuppers. I made a shaving horse, too. I cheated (with a tubasix) and
made legs from some of my Lombardy poplar cuttings.
>Which of his books stands out in your mind regarding handmade tools?
>Did you make any?
Yeah, I made a spokeshave from a Spokie(tm) kit, a froe from a
leafspring and a piece of my own poplar. Spokeshave was an old
Wrecker who hasn't posted here in eons (that I know of.) And I fixed a
Knight shoulder plane which had delaminated. It was one of his first
test planes way back and he either used the wrong glue or forgot to
de-oil the bubinga sole just before gluing. I didn't make many of the
suggested tools in Roy's books, though. I started a screwbox
(Woodwright's Workbook) but found one so cheap I bought that instead.
--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:48:16 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'd forgotten that post. Alzheimers kicking in again. I can take a hint and
>> will shut up now.
>
>I absolutely did not mean that at all! I always learn something from
>your posts--keep them coming please! I just didn't want you to rework a
>nicely written essay you already wrote when I could just repost it.
Not a worry. I didn't take it that way. I am much more of a lurker than a
poster, and I realized I have been blathering more the last 3-4 days than I
usually do in 6 months. When I start repeating myself, it's time to drop back
into lurk mode and look for the experts here. A couple have waded in already,
and I'm surprised that several others have not.
Regards,
Roy
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:52:09 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill wrote:
(huge snip of some breathtaking prose)
>>
>> Thank you for all of the links/info. I saved a copy on my desktop. I've
>> recently been reading one you mentioned above: "Making Traditional
>> Wooden Planes", by Whelan. As you already know, he suggests that the
>> best way to make a plane is to already have one like the one you're
>> trying to make. I'll just have to ignore that little aside for now.
I will be making a spill plane, and will be doing the same as you. I have
never actually seen one in the flesh, and will be working from a drawing and a
picture.
>> Bill
>
>Roy, BTW, I was just re-reading a post you made here on 2/10/10 which
>compared the "practicality" of Finck's book to that of Whelan's book.
>Thus you can assume that I remember the differences between them that
>you mentioned verbatim!
>
>Bill
I'd forgotten that post. Alzheimers kicking in again. I can take a hint and
will shut up now. Looks like you're standing on a highly greased steep slope
all on your own. Best of luck! Post pictures of whatever you buy or build.
Most of all, have fun. Life is too short not to.
Regards,
Roy