Work Sharp gloat

"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:18:13 -0600, MikeWhy wrote:
>
>> I read somewhere that the concern was uneven material removal from
>> differences in rotation speed, due to the differing radial distance
>> along the tool edge. The question was whether the effect was noticeable
>> or objectionable.
>
> There may also be a problem with all of the horizontal grinders. It has
> been claimed that because the scratches are across the blade instead of
> down its length, the edge will break down sooner.
>
> Is this right? I don't know, but intuitively it seems to make sense.
> Even if it is true, the difference may not be significant. Anyone
> explored this issue?

Any effect would be less than that of a hollow grind. Also, the last few
honing strokes I take are parallel to the cutting edge, riding the hollow
like a skate blade. I suppose it wouldn't take very many strokes on the 6000
stone to clean away whatever obtuse roughness the WS might leave. Depending
on the final grit used.

Did you get the "special package deal" that included the jig to use
with the adjustable height bar which comes with the unit? Says
it lets you sharpen things up to 3" wide.

The WS3000 is a slick little unit which, as you've discovered, is
almost idiot proof for flat backed, single bevel square edges
from 1/4" up to 2+ inches.

Couple of suggestions for you.

1. Make sure you burnish the outside edge of the sanding disks
down really well, and if anything hangs over the edge, burnish
it over the edge. I was sharpening a single bevel knife edge
that required that the edge "face into" the direction of rotation.
Had a teeny-tiny overhang on the paper - which the cutting
edge caught. This little puppy has more torque than I thought
and the resulting "catch" scared the bejeesus out of me.
Loosing control of a sharp edge is not on my Bucket List/

2. Put a couple of "fender washers" (large diameter, small hole
diameter) under the disk to get it up above that lip around
the disk.

3. READ THE MANUAL
For narrower chisels they suggest using the LEFT side of the
angle jig and for wider edge use the RIGHT side.

I've got "india" and "arkansas" stones, japanese water stones, DMT
diamond plates, a grinder with sharpening jigs (Wolverine), a Tormek
and a JoolTool. For bench chisels and plane irons NONE can compete
with the WS3000 in terms of speed, easy and safety of use.

As you noted, if it's quick and easy to sharpen a chisel or plane
iron - you will when you even think the edge is going or is lost.
With the WS and the 400 grit touch up takes seconds.

When I get the shop cleaned up I'm going to make something to
hold it on my lathe bench - turning tools loose their edges real
fast and continuing to turn with a dulling edge means more
effort and more clean up work.

Now what are you going to do to keep all the paper disks and
wheels organized? Here's one idea (Watch the line wrap)

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/Sharpening/WorksharpWS3000/Parts_N_StuffBox/WS_Parts_N_Stuff_Box.html

May The Edge be with you.

charlie b

Gerald Ross wrote:

> When the patent expires and/or the Chinese make an affordable model
> I'm gonna get one.
>


Affordable? .

Let's see,
set of four mid grade water stones and a tool holder (about $200)
a low speed grinder plus upgraded grinding wheels plus
a wheel dressing tool plus a jig or two (around $300)
Tormek with a few accessories (around $400)
JoolTool - loaded ($400)
Lap-Sharp base unit ($600) plus th Tool Guide & Holding jig ($80)
WS2000 - 25 degree bevel jig ($129)
WS3000 - 20, 25, 30 and 35 degrees bevel jig ($200)
Trip to the emergency room to stitch up a sliced hand resulting
from forcing a dull cutting tool - $1000 minimum

I guess affordable is a relative thing ; )

charlieb <[email protected]> writes:
>Gerald Ross wrote:
>
>> When the patent expires and/or the Chinese make an affordable model
>> I'm gonna get one.
>>
>
>
>Affordable? .
>
>Let's see,
>set of four mid grade water stones and a tool holder (about $200)
>a low speed grinder plus upgraded grinding wheels plus
>a wheel dressing tool plus a jig or two (around $300)
>Tormek with a few accessories (around $400)
>JoolTool - loaded ($400)
>Lap-Sharp base unit ($600) plus th Tool Guide & Holding jig ($80)
>WS2000 - 25 degree bevel jig ($129)
>WS3000 - 20, 25, 30 and 35 degrees bevel jig ($200)
>Trip to the emergency room to stitch up a sliced hand resulting
>from forcing a dull cutting tool - $1000 minimum
>
>I guess affordable is a relative thing ; )

Sheet of sandpaper $0.50
1/4" float glass $5.00 scrap

scott

charlieb <[email protected]> writes:

> The WS3000 is a slick little unit which, as you've discovered, is
> almost idiot proof for flat backed, single bevel square edges
> from 1/4" up to 2+ inches.


One of those circular sharpening systems had a problem where the end
nearer the center of the disk wore differently than the edge at the
other end. The problem: the edge wasn't 90 degrees.

Has anyone noticed this on the Work Sharp?

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:18:13 -0600, MikeWhy wrote:
>
>
>>I read somewhere that the concern was uneven material removal from
>>differences in rotation speed, due to the differing radial distance
>>along the tool edge. The question was whether the effect was noticeable
>>or objectionable.
>
>
> There may also be a problem with all of the horizontal grinders. It has
> been claimed that because the scratches are across the blade instead of
> down its length, the edge will break down sooner.
>
> Is this right? I don't know, but intuitively it seems to make sense.
> Even if it is true, the difference may not be significant. Anyone
> explored this issue?
>

The position of the sharpening port is such that the abrasive crosses
the blade at close to a right angle. Here's a link to a picture of a
chisel sharpened with the WS3000:

http://www.joeswoodstuff.com/Images/Reviews/worksharp/WS%20new%20chisel%20bevel%20800x600.jpg


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Marty wrote:
> Got a Work Sharp 3000 (http://www.worksharptools.com/pilot.asp) for
> Christmas and spent the last few days sharpening everything in sight!!!
>
> I have tried a lot of jigs to sharpen my chisels and
> hand planes and although I got good results I was not
> always sure I got the best edge that I could.
>
> But not with this machine!!! set up was a breeze and
> results were excellent. I had planned to store the machine
> and pull out from time to time to tune up my blades.... but
> now I will set it up where I can access it when I need
> to touch up a blade.
>
> Recommended
>
> Marty
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

When the patent expires and/or the Chinese make an affordable model
I'm gonna get one.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Social Security: World's biggest Ponzi Scheme.

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> charlieb <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>The WS3000 is a slick little unit which, as you've discovered, is
>>almost idiot proof for flat backed, single bevel square edges
>>from 1/4" up to 2+ inches.
>
>
>
> One of those circular sharpening systems had a problem where the end
> nearer the center of the disk wore differently than the edge at the
> other end. The problem: the edge wasn't 90 degrees.
>
> Has anyone noticed this on the Work Sharp?

The Work Sharp WS3000 has a skew adjustment to correct for misalignment
of the fence. Their WS2000 doesn't have this adjustment.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've got "india" and "arkansas" stones, japanese water stones, DMT
> diamond plates, a grinder with sharpening jigs (Wolverine), a Tormek
> and a JoolTool. For bench chisels and plane irons NONE can compete
> with the WS3000 in terms of speed, easy and safety of use.

You know... I haven't shopped so much for non-woodworking tools as I have in
the past 3 months of doing this Neander thing. It started innocently with a
Krausz dovetail video. The previously perfectly serviceable chisels were no
longer nearly sharp enough. OK, fine. The bench grinder doesn't work so well
with the high carbon tool steel, so it got replaced with a slow speed
grinder. But does it stop there? I didn't know it then, but it was just the
beginning. I tired of dorking with the granite surface plate, and snapped up
some "cheap" waterstones (even the cheap ones ain't, if you know what I
mean). So "Sharp" became my middle name. Nothing else got done, but cutting
edges gleamed like nobody's business, each a veritable arm hair shaving
mirror. And for a few brief days early in December, I was completely out of
things that can be sharpened. Everything that could be sharpened already
was, and then some. Even the steak knives and kitchen knives got the
treatment. So, feeling thus empowered, and with the growing emptiness crying
to be filled, I whispered to Santa one evening that I wanted some carving
gouges. Curvaceous and gleaming beautifically in the shop lights, their only
purpose in my life, apparently, is to get dull and then resharpened. So far,
that's working out pretty well. I've managed to dig deep, random shaped
pockets in my 8/4 oak, walnut, and cherry stock. Someday I'll get around to
actually making something other than chips, but I was rather pleased for a
short while with scaring out tightly curled cross grain chips ahead of the
gouge. But the emptiness is back, and it's growing. There has to be a better
way to sharpen these things...

Is the WS3000 the end all and be all? Will it finally end this madness? I
don't think I'm the first one down this path. Those who came before me gave
birth to the Tormeks, Worksharps, and Chipping Aways. Where and when does
this end?

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlieb <[email protected]> writes:
>>Gerald Ross wrote:
>>
>>> When the patent expires and/or the Chinese make an affordable model
>>> I'm gonna get one.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Affordable? .
>>
>>Let's see,
>>set of four mid grade water stones and a tool holder (about $200)
>>a low speed grinder plus upgraded grinding wheels plus
>>a wheel dressing tool plus a jig or two (around $300)
>>Tormek with a few accessories (around $400)
>>JoolTool - loaded ($400)
>>Lap-Sharp base unit ($600) plus th Tool Guide & Holding jig ($80)
>>WS2000 - 25 degree bevel jig ($129)
>>WS3000 - 20, 25, 30 and 35 degrees bevel jig ($200)
>>Trip to the emergency room to stitch up a sliced hand resulting
>>from forcing a dull cutting tool - $1000 minimum
>>
>>I guess affordable is a relative thing ; )
>
> Sheet of sandpaper $0.50
> 1/4" float glass $5.00 scrap

That's more like 500 sheets, various grits, $50 in bulk. A few scraps of
various thickness (and flatness) float glass, followed by a granite surface
plate, $40. They got your money, coming, going, and while yer sitting still
in between. Handtools decidedly ain't cheap.

Thanks for the comments

No, I did not get the new jig, but I did get the leather honing disk as
a part of the package not as an add-on by the store. Just saw the jig
for wider blades but as of today not much use for this.
I did step through the manual to set up and then do my first
honing. After that it was pretty easy to do the rest.

I had one old chisel that had a very bad and mis-shapen edge so
used the 120 grit wheel to hone a new edge. Had to be careful here
as this wheel is very aggressive and had some filings come off the
that were glowing red hot. Thankfully easy to see and made me
slow down the process. But after the 120 to 400 to 1000 grits I
had a new chisel! :-)

I will need to put my mind to the disk/wheel storage problem though.
Not yet sure how I will do this. The link you provided has
given me some ideas.

Marty

charlieb wrote:
> Did you get the "special package deal" that included the jig to use
> with the adjustable height bar which comes with the unit? Says
> it lets you sharpen things up to 3" wide.
>
> The WS3000 is a slick little unit which, as you've discovered, is
> almost idiot proof for flat backed, single bevel square edges
> from 1/4" up to 2+ inches.
>
> Couple of suggestions for you.
>
> 1. Make sure you burnish the outside edge of the sanding disks
> down really well, and if anything hangs over the edge, burnish
> it over the edge. I was sharpening a single bevel knife edge
> that required that the edge "face into" the direction of rotation.
> Had a teeny-tiny overhang on the paper - which the cutting
> edge caught. This little puppy has more torque than I thought
> and the resulting "catch" scared the bejeesus out of me.
> Loosing control of a sharp edge is not on my Bucket List/
>
> 2. Put a couple of "fender washers" (large diameter, small hole
> diameter) under the disk to get it up above that lip around
> the disk.
>
> 3. READ THE MANUAL
> For narrower chisels they suggest using the LEFT side of the
> angle jig and for wider edge use the RIGHT side.
>
> I've got "india" and "arkansas" stones, japanese water stones, DMT
> diamond plates, a grinder with sharpening jigs (Wolverine), a Tormek
> and a JoolTool. For bench chisels and plane irons NONE can compete
> with the WS3000 in terms of speed, easy and safety of use.
>
> As you noted, if it's quick and easy to sharpen a chisel or plane
> iron - you will when you even think the edge is going or is lost.
> With the WS and the 400 grit touch up takes seconds.
>
> When I get the shop cleaned up I'm going to make something to
> hold it on my lathe bench - turning tools loose their edges real
> fast and continuing to turn with a dulling edge means more
> effort and more clean up work.
>
> Now what are you going to do to keep all the paper disks and
> wheels organized? Here's one idea (Watch the line wrap)
>
> http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/Sharpening/WorksharpWS3000/Parts_N_StuffBox/WS_Parts_N_Stuff_Box.html
>
> May The Edge be with you.
>
> charlie b
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"MikeWhy" wrote

> Is the WS3000 the end all and be all?

For ease of use, fast, and no mess whatsoever, yes!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:18:13 -0600, MikeWhy wrote:

> I read somewhere that the concern was uneven material removal from
> differences in rotation speed, due to the differing radial distance
> along the tool edge. The question was whether the effect was noticeable
> or objectionable.

There may also be a problem with all of the horizontal grinders. It has
been claimed that because the scratches are across the blade instead of
down its length, the edge will break down sooner.

Is this right? I don't know, but intuitively it seems to make sense.
Even if it is true, the difference may not be significant. Anyone
explored this issue?

--
It's turtles, all the way down

"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>> charlieb <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>
>>>The WS3000 is a slick little unit which, as you've discovered, is
>>>almost idiot proof for flat backed, single bevel square edges
>>>from 1/4" up to 2+ inches.
>>
>>
>>
>> One of those circular sharpening systems had a problem where the end
>> nearer the center of the disk wore differently than the edge at the
>> other end. The problem: the edge wasn't 90 degrees.
>>
>> Has anyone noticed this on the Work Sharp?
>
> The Work Sharp WS3000 has a skew adjustment to correct for misalignment of
> the fence. Their WS2000 doesn't have this adjustment.

I read somewhere that the concern was uneven material removal from
differences in rotation speed, due to the differing radial distance along
the tool edge. The question was whether the effect was noticeable or
objectionable. It would seem to be in the right direction for a usefully
cambered plane iron. That is, if the plane iron center was closest to the
disc center, the corners will see slightly higher surface speed, and thus be
ground a little faster. (I doubt it can be measured given a flat enough and
rigid enough tool.)

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:33:42 -0600, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...snip...]
>
>There may also be a problem with all of the horizontal grinders. It has
>been claimed that because the scratches are across the blade instead of
>down its length, the edge will break down sooner.
>
>Is this right? I don't know, but intuitively it seems to make sense.
>Even if it is true, the difference may not be significant. Anyone
>explored this issue?

I've read that, too. For what it is worth, I've noticed many
woodworking claims made about this technique or that technique (not
just sharpening) are based on some logically derived conclusion but no
real data. As many tests of these claims have shown, logic alone
doesn't really cut it.

I use the side to side sharpening technique, when hand sharpening a
flat bevel with no sharpening jig. Works better (faster) for me than
trying to keep the bevel flat going front to back. If I was using a
hollow ground bevel, or a typical jig, I wouldn't do that.

I don't notice any difference in edge longevity. I generally sharpen
the final pass with 0.5 micron abrasive. I think with that fine a
polish, the direction of scratches vs. strength of edge effect is
minimal.