Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
MDF does.
My question's are:
- won't it be sealed once you paint it?
- how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
- what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
Swingman wrote:
> "Christy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
> > contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
> > purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> > off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
> > not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
> > MDF does.
> > My question's are:
> > - won't it be sealed once you paint it?
> > - how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
> > - what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
> > thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
> > oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
>
> What you concerned about is that MDF off gasses urea-formaldehyde.
>
> There are a couple of urea-formaldehyde free MDF manufacturers, and a few
> composite board manufacturers who use phenol-formaldehyde in their
> manufacturing process, which doesn't pollute/off gass at the same level that
> urea-formaldehyde does.
>
> You should be able to find them easily doing a Google search.
The OP wants to buy doors, not sheet goods. If they have questions
about what type of MDF was used in the doors, they should contact the
door manufacturer and take it from there.
If the door is sealed with a vapor barrier paint there shouldn't be any
meaurable outgtassing.
R
> My question's are:
- won't it be sealed once you paint it?
- how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
- what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
Off-gassing affects people differently - some people are very sensitive
to it and get headaches etc after even minimal exposure, others don't
notice any symptoms. It's true that most carpet, foam, particleboard,
MDF, oil-based paint, most new furniture containing these products,
etc. all off-gas various solvents. However, as I understand it,
because they haven't been in use for all that long and not everyone
shows "symptoms" when exposed, there isn't a lot of research out yet.
Some people say you should avoid these items altogether, and some say
symptoms are imaginary and it doesn't make a difference. Either way,
the solvents in the glue are not healthy for you. If it were me, and I
had the choice of buying solid wood instead of MDF for indoor
furniture/doors/etc, I'd avoid the formaldehyde-based solvent glues and
go with the solid wood, especially if you have young children or family
members that are sensitive to solvents/chemical smells.
And yes, painting with latex paint or sealing with shellac should at
least reduce off-gassing.
Andy
Swingman wrote:
> "RicodJour" wrote in message
>
> > > > Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF?
>
> > The OP wants to buy doors, not sheet goods. If they have questions
> > about what type of MDF was used in the doors, they should contact the
> > door manufacturer and take it from there.
> >
> > If the door is sealed with a vapor barrier paint there shouldn't be any
> > meaurable outgtassing.
>
> Read the first question again. Pretty hard to miss the OP wanted information
> on MDF off gassing and it is that is harmful about it.
>
> You didn't even come close to answering that, but take me to task for doing
> so?
>
> Kiss my ass ...
Are you always so sensitive? Sheesh.
I thought I did answer what needed to be answered - seal the door with
a vapor barrier paint. As to the rest, I'm sure the OP can Google as
well as you or I.
The driving force in the OP's questions is the contractor scaring her
with talk about outgassing from the MDF doors. I'm not sure how your
answer to a question that wasn't asked helps clarify anything.
You could have pointed her in the direction of
http://www.vtindustries.com/doors/ - a manufacturer of
urea-formaldehyde free doors (they ain't gonna be cheap), or the EPA's
page on formaldehyde http://www.epa.gov/iaq/formalde.html
R
Phisherman wrote:
> On 29 Apr 2006 08:58:53 -0700, "Christy" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
> >contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
> >purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> >off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
> >not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
> >MDF does.
> > My question's are:
> >- won't it be sealed once you paint it?
>
> No.
Well, that's kind of a blanket statement and assumes that all
paint/coatings would be similarly ineffective.
An epoxy paint would certainly seal the door and prevent outgassing,
but it's probably not warranted. It's unrealistic to try to achieve
perfect sealing of the doors when, as the OP noted, there are so many
other things that are larger and more of a concern.
You're really just looking to slow down the outgassing to a minimal
level with a reasonable amount of effort and expense. That's why I
suggested a vapor barrier paint. There are other coatings that would
suffice.
http://experts.about.com/q/Chemistry-including-Biochemistry-1355/MDF-Formaldehyde-paint.htm
And the CPSC http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/725.html has this to say
on the matter:
"Here are some of the methods to reduce indoor levels of formaldehyde.
1. Bring large amounts of fresh air into the home. Increase ventilation
by opening doors and windows and installing an exhaust fan(s).
2. Seal the surfaces of the formaldehyde-containing products that are
not already laminated or coated. You may use a vapor barrier such as
some paints, varnishes, or a layer of vinyl or polyurethane-like
materials. Be sure to seal completely, with a material that does not
itself contain formaldehyde. Many paints and coatings will emit other
VOCs when curing, so be sure to ventilate the area well during and
after treatment."
R
RicodJour wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
> > On 29 Apr 2006 08:58:53 -0700, "Christy" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
> > >contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
> > >purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> > >off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
> > >not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
> > >MDF does.
> > > My question's are:
> > >- won't it be sealed once you paint it?
> >
> > No.
>
> Well, that's kind of a blanket statement and assumes that all
> paint/coatings would be similarly ineffective.
>
> An epoxy paint would certainly seal the door and prevent outgassing,
> but it's probably not warranted.
I'm less than certain that it woudld stop the outgassing but quite
confident that it would reduce the rate dramatically, which as you
explain below, should be quite sufficent. Diffusion though solids
is a poorly understood, but well-documetned phenomenum.
> It's unrealistic to try to achieve
> perfect sealing of the doors when, as the OP noted, there are so many
> other things that are larger and more of a concern.
In terms of outgassing organics these would include all plastics
and most wood finishes, glues, cleaning agents, and maybe even
wood itself. If you can smell wood, it's outgassing _something_.
>
> You're really just looking to slow down the outgassing to a minimal
> level with a reasonable amount of effort and expense. That's why I
> suggested a vapor barrier paint. There are other coatings that would
> suffice.
Yes. That way the normal exchange of air between the house and the
outdoors will keep the concentrations to a bare minimum, almost
certainly well-below any level of concern.
--
FF
"RicodJour" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> > "RicodJour" wrote in message
> >
> > > > > Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF?
> >
> > > The OP wants to buy doors, not sheet goods. If they have questions
> > > about what type of MDF was used in the doors, they should contact the
> > > door manufacturer and take it from there.
> > >
> > > If the door is sealed with a vapor barrier paint there shouldn't be
any
> > > meaurable outgtassing.
> >
> > Read the first question again. Pretty hard to miss the OP wanted
information
> > on MDF off gassing and it is that is harmful about it.
> >
> > You didn't even come close to answering that, but take me to task for
doing
> > so?
> >
> > Kiss my ass ...
>
> Are you always so sensitive? Sheesh.
>
> I thought I did answer what needed to be answered - seal the door with
> a vapor barrier paint. As to the rest, I'm sure the OP can Google as
> well as you or I.
>
> The driving force in the OP's questions is the contractor scaring her
> with talk about outgassing from the MDF doors. I'm not sure how your
> answer to a question that wasn't asked helps clarify anything.
>
> You could have pointed her in the direction of
> http://www.vtindustries.com/doors/ - a manufacturer of
> urea-formaldehyde free doors (they ain't gonna be cheap), or the EPA's
> page on formaldehyde http://www.epa.gov/iaq/formalde.html
Perhaps you should give up on being a moderator wannabe and concentrate on
trying to understand that by adding to the OP's knowledge regarding the
nature of the problem, they can contact the manufacturer of an alternate
product to find who uses the alternate product to manufacture
doors/widgets/whathaveyou's.
Tough concept .. but while you're working that out in your head, go ahead
and post your e-mail address so the rest of us can send our future replies
to you for approval prior to posting.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
"Christy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
> contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
> purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
> not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
> MDF does.
> My question's are:
> - won't it be sealed once you paint it?
> - how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
> - what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
> thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
> oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
What you concerned about is that MDF off gasses urea-formaldehyde.
There are a couple of urea-formaldehyde free MDF manufacturers, and a few
composite board manufacturers who use phenol-formaldehyde in their
manufacturing process, which doesn't pollute/off gass at the same level that
urea-formaldehyde does.
You should be able to find them easily doing a Google search.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
"Christy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> My question's are:
> - won't it be sealed once you paint it?
Pretty much. No always perfect, but close enough.
> - how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
It would take a lot more than a door to the bedroom is going to give off.
Not a concern, IMO. It does stop after a short time also.
> - what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
You feel better after. Others oftem complainof you off gass too close or
after pickled eggs and beer.
> thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
> oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
http://www.informinc.org/fact_P3pressedwood.php
http://www.advancedbuildings.org/main_t_finishes_formaldehyde.htm
These guys have a primer just for that reason
http://www.ecospaints.com/painttypes.htm
In article <[email protected]>,
"Christy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> off-gasses
Particle board with a melamine coating on both sides off-gasses very
little....till you gang drill for shelf-holes... then it becomes
noticeably more toxic (to me at least).
In article <[email protected]>,
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> You feel better after. Others oftem complainof you off gass too close or
> after pickled eggs and beer.
>
After a meal like that, it's always fun to light one up.
"Christy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
> contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
> purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
> off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
> not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
> MDF does.
> My question's are:
> - won't it be sealed once you paint it?
> - how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
> - what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
> thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
> oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
If you wanrt to seal use one part pvc and 4 parts water.MDF is porus
otherwise...mjh
>
On 29 Apr 2006 08:58:53 -0700, "Christy" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF? A
>contractor brought it to my attention that the MDF doors I want to
>purchase will off-gas. Ok, but I was also told that nearly everything
>off-gasses including the carpet you install, foam matresses etc. I can
>not find any information on what off-gassing will do to you, only that
>MDF does.
> My question's are:
>- won't it be sealed once you paint it?
No.
>- how harmful is off-gassing from MDF?
So many factors here, like the amount of MDF, the exposure time,
ventilation, health of the people, unborn, etc.
>- what are the effects of off-gassing on us?
Well, much of the gas is formaldehyde which is not healthy. When
formaldehyde is present in the air at levels exceeding 0.1 ppm, some
individuals may experience health effects such as watery eyes; burning
sensations of the eyes, nose, and throat; coughing; wheezing; nausea;
headaches; and skin irritation. Long-term effects are less known,
with a possible link to cancer.
>thanks in advance to anyone who can give me documented information (not
>oppinions, please) on this subject. Christy
I'm sure you can find some government findings about formaldehyde. The
allowed concentration has been lowered in the past 10 years.
If you are concerned, allow more ventilation into your home for a
month or so. The amount of formaldehyde in a double door can not be
much to be concerned about. If there are pregnant women in the house
or individuals with a weakened immunity, put the doors in the garage
for a few months before you install.
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:20:48 -0700, fredfighter wrote:
>>
>> You're really just looking to slow down the outgassing to a minimal
>> level with a reasonable amount of effort and expense. That's why I
>> suggested a vapor barrier paint. There are other coatings that would
>> suffice.
>
> Yes. That way the normal exchange of air between the house and the
> outdoors will keep the concentrations to a bare minimum, almost
> certainly well-below any level of concern.
>
> --
This is true. One thing to consider is the "efficiency" of the house.
Many newer houses are very tight and air exchange is more limited than you
might like.
JD
"RicodJour" wrote in message
> > > Hi, can anyone talk to the issues of the off-gassing of MDF?
> The OP wants to buy doors, not sheet goods. If they have questions
> about what type of MDF was used in the doors, they should contact the
> door manufacturer and take it from there.
>
> If the door is sealed with a vapor barrier paint there shouldn't be any
> meaurable outgtassing.
Read the first question again. Pretty hard to miss the OP wanted information
on MDF off gassing and it is that is harmful about it.
You didn't even come close to answering that, but take me to task for doing
so?
Kiss my ass ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05