OT Rant

"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

snip

> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
> argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
> relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
> future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

I still believe the signs were simply passed over. Why? Some people still
believe that because no WMD's were found in Iraq, after giving them 6 months
to dismantle, ship out, ot hide them, they simply did not exist.

This same type of reasoning has disabled the use of profiling. You see a
person acting a bit unusual you ignore it because acting unusual is not a
crime and if you say they need help because they are acting unusual they
accuse you of profiling. I am sorry to say that profiling is the only true
way to help prevent things from getting out of hand. But the use of
profiling has been disabled by a swift and "Broad" brush.



>
> As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
> why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
> a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
> when I can't. ;-)

Ahh a profiller, a smart one.




>
>>In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
>>fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
>>third generation) and move on.

Your really don't have to do that althought it seems the best way at times.
You simply deliver equal to the crime justice, quickly and with out fan
fare.

"Leon" asked::

Google "anthony sowell" or go straight to Cleveland Plain Dealer for
details of this sexual predator and his trail of bodies.

Lew

"Leon" wrote:

> The shooting that every one has heard about in Fort Hood was tragic
> on so many levels and continues to be.
>
> My utmost respect goes out to the armed forces and my deepest
> sympathies to the victims and their families.
>
> It was tragic that so many were injured and killed.
>
> It is tragic that the shooter is only being identified as a suspect
> rather than "the shooter". Damn it, when there is a room full of
> eye witnesses there is no suspect, there is only the one that
> committed the crime, the witnesses and the victims, Plain and
> simple.
---------------------------------------------------------
The emotions of the moment, while allowing someone to vent the spleen,
are seldom reliable.

Eye witness accounts are often later found to be in error.

Under the US system of justice, a person is assumed to be innocent
until proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law.

So until a conviction has been rendered, "Suspect" is the label of
choice of our system of justice.

The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

"Why" was he promoted to Major just after receiving a less than
favorable review at Walter Reed.

"Why" wasn't a red flag raised about his recent behavior changes which
included giving away his possesions as well as dressing in Middle
Eastern garb and passing out copies of the Koran?

"Why" didn't his attempt to seek legal counsel to avoid being sent
into a war zone raise questions?

"Why" didn't the suicide of one of his patients at Walter Reed raise a
flag that maybe he needed help.

Where was the physiotherapist to provide a means to unload his
thoughts and provide help.

Thought that was a requirement of his position.

Does this unfortunate event some how point to an overall larger
problem with our present military system?

Is the US trying to fight two (2) wars on the cheap without enough
troops to get the job done?

Those are some very difficult questions; however, they need to be
addressed by the military along with the FBI and others doing the
investigation(s).

What can't be allowed is a rush to judgment that results in a "White
Wash" of the tragic event.

Strange as it may seem to some, the fact that the suspect survived can
be considered as a positive thing.

At least he is able to answer questions as long as he is alive.

Lew

On Nov 8, 11:02=A0am, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
> > In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill th=
e
> > fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto t=
he
> > third generation) and move on.
>
> Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
> way, there is a method to the madness.
>
> --
> Jack
> People who never get carried away should be.http://jbstein.com

Sure. And if you or yours are among the innocent people killed?

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
>>> interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors
>>> declined to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and
>>> Muslim-apologist recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically
>>> correct.
>>
>> I can't find the link right now, but a new movie is being made. It was on
>> Yahoo earlier this week. In the movie, they destroy the White House, the
>> Vatican, many other recognizable buildings, but they skipped the Muslim
>> building for fear of reprisal from the peace loving people.
>
> Forgive me for being dense, Ed - but would you please clarify who "they"
> are and the relevance of this fictional work to the real events being
> discussed?
>

The "they" is the movie producers. It has to do with the political
correctness discussed in the Muslim situation. The producers find it OK to
destroy everything the rest of the world holds sacred, but will not touch
the Muslim temple. They fear a fatwa. If we are going to fictionally
destroy everything, Muslims should not be held to a different standard.

The link is from Yahoo and is on my work computer history. I don't see it
here.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4e077260-3a17-435f-8e36-a905be8a1cd4@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

I haven't had a bike for 29 years (the age of my oldest daughter).
That is about to change...he said...dreaming of an antique r60 BMW.


Nice. And addictive. A former workmate has two of them, one with sidecar.
Late 50's I think. Keeps getting offers to buy them, but I think he'd sell
his wife first.

diggerop

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, the infamous [email protected]
scrawled the following:

>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:10:22 -0800, evodawg <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Think it already has. Did we not all see a year ago the sheep following the
>>Messiah to the voting booths. I also remember some fainting by just being
>>in his presence. I have zero confidence in the direction of this country.
>
>Despite your insulting rhetoric, there's a huge difference between
>people hoping and people turning into sheep as though hypnotized.
>Your "Messiah" as you choose to call him offered and does still offer
>hope. Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
>realize that they're not going down the right path.
>
>Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
>into a profitable world, what will you say?

I'd likely say "It probably wasn't him who did it." We cannot spend
our way out of a bloody economic hole, foo.


>Of course you'd say that it would have happened anyway. Your arrogance
>just wouldn't allow for any other conclusion. Sounds like you're the
>sheep to me.

Um, how are your "hope and change" working for you, Uppy?

--
The Smart Person learns from his mistakes.
The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others.
And then there are all the rest of us...
-----------------------------------------------------

On Nov 7, 7:52=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:35:15 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =A0Yeah, he offers hope if we will only surrender our remaining liberti=
es to
> >him. He will then take care of all of us. =A0His version of "hope" has n=
ever
> >turned out well for those who have taken that path. =A0His version of
> >solutions is to offer more of the same government intervention and
> >interference and meddling that got our country into the financial mess i=
t
> >now faces.
>
> Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
> consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
> that path and done quite well. Take Canada for example. Despite it's
> problems, (all countries have them you know) we have a distinctly more
> stable banking system than you do. It's better now and history has
> proven it more efficient in the past.
>
> How do you explain this? Next you'll be telling me that our success is
> a direct result of the great and wonderful US of A coddling it's
> largest trading partner and next door neighbour.
>
> Go ahead, I know you're itching to say it so you might as well get it
> off your chest before you explode. And then of course, I'll respond
> with the fact that the citizens of the USA are the most arrogant in
> the world and then we'll see the sparks fly. =A0:)

Don't waste your time. Our friend Mark is still hiding behind this
belt-buckle:
http://worldwarrelics.blogspot.com/2009/02/gott-mit-uns-belt-buckle.html
After all, anything goes with God in your back pocket.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:28:55 -0500, the infamous [email protected]
scrawled the following:

>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:13:38 -0800, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>I think it's sad that he survived. Now it will cost millions of
>>dollars to try him and every one of the victims' families will be left
>>with feelings of disgust, moreso than if he'd been killed, no matter
>>what the outcome of the trial. And the perp'll be forced to house the
>>guilt for the rest of his life, too. Sitrep: Lose/Lose.
>
>Does the armed forces have a death penalty on conviction available?
>Does the fact that the US is in Iraq mean that this is war time under
>war rules?

That doesn't change the potential costs nor the lengthy trials and
endless appeals mandated by our court systems, though it might be
cheaper in the military courts. I had forgotten that aspect of it, it
happens so seldom. Suicides are the soldiers' forte.


>Good chance he'll end up being dead anyway. Certainly if
>he's imprisoned instead of executed, he'll have to be segregated. I'm
>sure other convicts would be lining up to break his neck and not give
>it a second thought.

Instant karma works for me, but he'll be put into a psych facility,
not a regular prison. You _know_ that, don't you? I mean, nice, sane
poeple don't kill masses of people, do they? <deep sigh>

--
The Smart Person learns from his mistakes.
The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others.
And then there are all the rest of us...
-----------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:56:22 -0600, Gordon Shumway
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
>>realize that they're not going down the right path.
>
>That is exactly what happened. The fact that you don't understand
>that point only enforces his "insulting rhetoric."

Possibly so, but whether you want to admit it or not, he also offers
hope and that's pretty powerful. And maybe, just maybe, he'll fulfill
some of that hope. All those running against him were offering was
same old, same old bullshit without promise of anything new or
different.

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:07:54 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs, cronies
>in the White House, and on and on.
>Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.

Ok, but you've got to admit, in the political spectrum, especially as
president, those things are a mandatory job requirement for survival.
Even in our penny ante Canadian political environment, things like
that are part and parcel of the job. Not saying it's right, just that
it's the way it is.

On Nov 9, 11:29=A0am, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:

> =A0One of the
> leading items on my bucket list are to ride the length of New Zealand.

I once saw a group (guessing 10 or so) of Duc riders thunder by me on
The Great Ocean Road in Oz. I was standing by the side of the road
after having peeked over the guardrail to the waves way-way-way down
below... I think it was some sort of club, they were all in red
leathers and red bikes(of course) They were moving. Sounded like a
swarm of nuclear bees.
THAT left an impression on me...enough to make that a bucket-list
item.

On Nov 7, 6:31=A0pm, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, the infamous [email protected]
> scrawled the following:
>
> >Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
> >into a profitable world, what will you say?
>
> I'd likely say "It probably wasn't him who did it." =A0We cannot spend
> our way out of a bloody economic hole, foo.

Yes we can. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Speaking as an economist, the
only way out is to increase aggregate demand and there's only three
things that can do that: increase exports, increase private investment
in capital goods, or increase government spending. The alternative to
government spending is to pray that Chinese demand increases enough so
they start importing from the rest of us. Private spending on
investment goods ain't gonna happen until things are profitable again.

Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.

Luigi

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:36:33 -0600, Tim Daneliuk
<[email protected]> wrote:

>To fools and children (and moochers)...

I was wondering when the local clown would show up. Guess he's not
available anymore since he prefers to be an asshole instead.

Got any woodworking content to contribute this time fool? It's going
on three years now waiting for you to contribute *anything* in the
realm of woodworking.

Enjoy!

HeyBub wrote:
>
>> Good chance he'll end up being dead anyway. Certainly if
>> he's imprisoned instead of executed, he'll have to be segregated. I'm
>> sure other convicts would be lining up to break his neck and not give
>> it a second thought.
>
> He will be executed. A 2006 study found that of 21,000 courts
> martial, only six defendants successfully used the insanity defense.
> UCMJ provides for deciding insanity before trial. Specifically a 706
> Panel will be asked to answer four questions:
>

Even IF the military courts find him insane or sentence him to something
less than the death penalty, don't forget this business happened in the
state of Texas. If the sentence doesn't go appropriately, the state will
take a crack at the terrorist.

Texas, unlike the federal system, DOES actually execute those so sentenced.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
>realize that they're not going down the right path.

That is exactly what happened. The fact that you don't understand
that point only enforces his "insulting rhetoric."

Gordon Shumway

What color do Smurfs become when they hold their breath?

On Nov 7, 8:14=A0pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:35:15 -0700, Mark & Juanita
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> =A0Yeah, he offers hope if we will only surrender our remaining libert=
ies
> >> to
> >>him. He will then take care of all of us. =A0His version of "hope" has =
never
> >>turned out well for those who have taken that path. =A0His version of
> >>solutions is to offer more of the same government intervention and
> >>interference and meddling that got our country into the financial mess =
it
> >>now faces.
>
> > Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
> > consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
> > that path and done quite well. Take Canada
>
> We just might ...

We are 20 times the size of Iraq. You'll never find any of us...LOL
Besides, you'll ruin yourselves from within long before that happens.

Also... The Meek shall inherit the earth...the meek.. that's us.

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing
>>> exactly what you do. Our political system is in serious need of
>>> overhaul, but it will never happen.
>>
>> It will eventually. It happened in Rome courtesy of the Visigoths.
>> Happened in Byzantium courtesy of the Turks.
>>
>
> I guess never is too strong of a word. Perhaps "not in our lifetime" would
> be better. Our grandchildren should learn to speak Mandarin
>


Our Prime Minister has done exactly that. Is he setting an example for the
nation? .....hmmmm...

On Nov 9, 10:34=A0am, "diggerop" <toobusy@themoment> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:23:53 +0800, "diggerop" <toobusy@themoment>
> > wrote:
>
> >>"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>My philosophy is that if I ever wake up injured in a hospital from a
> >>motorcycle accident, then I simply wasn't going fast enough at the time=
.
>
> > Sounds like the biker method of being blind sided by some fence post.
>
> It happens. A lot. Sometimes in traffic, mostly with big trees on the
> twisty's in my part of the world. If I recall correctly, stats for this
> country show a bike rider is 5 times more likely to be killed than a car
> driver. One big problem we have, is that so many car drivers act as if
> you're not there, so getting cut off or forced out of a lane is a common
> occurrence. In the bad old days of my youth, we would carry a length of
> chain. Any "cager" (car driver) that deliberately cut you off or forced y=
ou
> over subsequently recieved a length of chain across their hood or windscr=
een
> as we passed them. Does wonders for the paint work .... and their driving
> habits.
> Getting too old for that sort of behaviour now, which is probably a good
> thing.
> It's also an effective, if dangerous, method of transport in heavy city
> traffic. Traffic jams don't exist for bike riders. We are permitted to
> lane-split, so when two or more long lines of cars are stacked up at the
> traffic lights, or moving at a slow pace, we ride between cars to the hea=
d
> of the queue.
>
> Bike riding is one of the few things the "Nanny State" hasn't managed to
> interfere with much, (apart from making helmets mandatory)....... yet. He=
nce
> its appeal. I let them take my guns, .... wasn't using them any more, and
> the possibility existed of some idiot stealing them, so it didn't worry m=
e.
> I will *not* let them take the bike. =A0: )
>
> diggerop.

One of my favourite 'rewards' for cutting me off (especially truckers)
was to ride the edge of the road and toe my steel-toed boot into the
gravel shoulder and whip up a fountainous flurry of gravel which would
invariably take out a truck's headlight or two.
A fellow rider did that once and was pulled over by the cops and was
asked if he knew anything about this truck who had radio'd in a
complaint. My friend emphatically denied this as the copper was
staring at his one,- totally devoid of polish- boot. He let him go.

Also, I was told, don't hang around in the next truck-stop too long
after pulling one of those showers. Those bastards have radios.

I haven't had a bike for 29 years (the age of my oldest daughter).
That is about to change...he said...dreaming of an antique r60 BMW.

HeyBub said:

>Greg G. wrote:
>>
>> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
>> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
>> argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
>> relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
>> future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.
>
>His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
>interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
>to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
>recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.

I read that earlier today. He sounds like a very conflicted individual
that was somewhat ostracized by American society - guilty as hell, but
conflicted. Yet incidences like these are not restricted to any given
region or religion, and each perpetrator reasons his own justification
for such acts. Overcompensating by ignoring warning signs is callow,
however, and this should have been caught. We're new to this, and will
eventually catch on. It takes time; humans are notoriously slow to
change and adapt...

>>> In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill
>>> the fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily,
>>> unto the third generation) and move on.
>>
>> Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
>> I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and
>> relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
>> the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
>> nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)
>>
>
>It's called cordon sanitiare. Or fire break. Take no chances.

McCarthy would be proud. ;-)
History records much reactionary behavior - Japanese Americans and
Jewish Europeans during WWII, etc. Surely we have grown beyond that
mindset - regardless of how profitable or emotionally self-serving it
is to vilify those who are not just like "us." Hell, we have produced
quite a few mass-murdering gunman right here at home, and I don't
believe there is a need to recite them all here.

I fear is that this incident is going to further promote a blanket
anti-Muslim sentiment, and therefore anti-American sentiment in
response, that has become so prolific in the TV media since 9-11.
Extremists represent a minority of Muslims, just as Christian
extremists constitute a minority within their religion. Call me a
Pollyanna, but I refuse to paint every Muslim with the same broad
strokes. Most are loving, peaceful, people who want the same things in
life everyone does. But as with most ideologies, there are some who
agitate and seek prominent stature through inflammatory hate speech
and behavior; and some people, being acutely authoritarian in nature,
are swept right along... Hate is an easy sell when mired in misery -
which much of the ME has been for a thousand years.

And before anyone retorts, No, I'm not a Muslim.


Greg G.

Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> On Nov 7, 6:31 pm, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, the infamous [email protected]
>> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
>>> into a profitable world, what will you say?
>> I'd likely say "It probably wasn't him who did it." We cannot spend
>> our way out of a bloody economic hole, foo.
>
> Yes we can. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Speaking as an economist, the
> only way out is to increase aggregate demand and there's only three
> things that can do that: increase exports, increase private investment
> in capital goods, or increase government spending. The alternative to
> government spending is to pray that Chinese demand increases enough so
> they start importing from the rest of us. Private spending on
> investment goods ain't gonna happen until things are profitable again.
>
> Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
> depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
> government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
> 1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
> Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.
>
> Luigi

Government spending is how the 1930s Depression was lengthened beyond
its natural lifecycle.

Economics is called the "Dismal Science" for a reason - economists never
allow reality to intrude on their cute littler theories (as witnessed above).

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Jack Stein said:

>HeyBub wrote:
>
>> In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
>> fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
>> third generation) and move on.
>
>Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
>way, there is a method to the madness.

Surely you jest, kind sir... I'd prefer to be a bit more accurate in
targeting people for extermination.


Greg G.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:10:22 -0800, evodawg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Think it already has. Did we not all see a year ago the sheep following the
>> Messiah to the voting booths. I also remember some fainting by just being
>> in his presence. I have zero confidence in the direction of this country.
>
> Despite your insulting rhetoric, there's a huge difference between
> people hoping and people turning into sheep as though hypnotized.
> Your "Messiah" as you choose to call him offered and does still offer
> hope. Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to

To fools and children (and moochers)...

me.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:35:15 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:


> Yeah, he offers hope if we will only surrender our remaining liberties to
>him. He will then take care of all of us. His version of "hope" has never
>turned out well for those who have taken that path. His version of
>solutions is to offer more of the same government intervention and
>interference and meddling that got our country into the financial mess it
>now faces.

Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
that path and done quite well. Take Canada for example. Despite it's
problems, (all countries have them you know) we have a distinctly more
stable banking system than you do. It's better now and history has
proven it more efficient in the past.

How do you explain this? Next you'll be telling me that our success is
a direct result of the great and wonderful US of A coddling it's
largest trading partner and next door neighbour.

Go ahead, I know you're itching to say it so you might as well get it
off your chest before you explode. And then of course, I'll respond
with the fact that the citizens of the USA are the most arrogant in
the world and then we'll see the sparks fly. :)

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> This kind of crap burns me up. I keep seeing more and more crosses,
> painted rocks, religious candles, balloons, and other crappy memorials
> all over the sides of the freeway and the roadsides here, both in and
> out of town. Why can't those people go to the damned cemetary and
> worship/curse/pray/memorialize there, instead? <sigh>

I think sometimes, seeing such things by the roadside, is a reminder to
other drivers to take more care. Non of us is indestructible though some,
especially motorcyclists, seem to think they are.

In article <[email protected]>,
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:

> Every now and then I remind myself "you want to die on this bike, not in
> bed of cancer like your parents".

Well, so long as you don't take somebody else out at the same time >-\

Trouble is, everytime some biker wraps himself round a tree in this neck
of the woods, they lower the speed limit and put in cameras so the rest of
us get hammered. Some limits now are stupidly low.

Tragic


But again, I am grateful that out great military leaders recognize what is
really going on. They are not the sheep.

Ironically, the health care fiasco being forced down our throats is probably
because the government knows we are going to need it as more of us are
gunned down and blown up.






"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
> > evodawg wrote:
> >
> >> Well lets not forget the State Run Media making excuses for this
> >> lunatic or
> >> terrorist. Making statements like our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan
> >> caused him to go over the edge. What a bunch of Bull Shit. The guy
> >> never
> >> saw any active duty and went to Med School on our dime to the tune of
> >> 500,000.00............
> >
> > This was as much an act of islamic terrorism as 9/11/2001.
>
> "“Tragedy at Ft Hood” Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret)
>
> This past Thursday 13 American Soldiers were killed and another 30 wounded
> at a horrific mass shooting at US Army installation, Ft Hood Texas. As I
> watched in horror and then anger I recalled my two years of final service
> in the Army as a Battalion Commander at Ft Hood, 2002-2004.
>
> My wife and two daughters were stunned at the incident having lived on the
> post in family housing.
>
> A military installation, whether it is Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, or
> Coast Guard, is supposed to be a safe sanctuary for our Warriors and their
> families. It is intended to provide a home whereby our “Band of Brothers
> and Sisters” can find solace and bond beyond just the foxhole but as
> family units.
>
> A military installation is supposed to be a place where our Warriors train
> for war, to serve and protect our Nation.
>
> On Thursday, 5 November 2009 Ft Hood became a part of the battlefield in
> the war against Islamic totalitarianism and state sponsored terrorism.
>
> There may be those who feel threatened by my words and would even
> recommend they not be uttered. To those individuals I say step aside
> because now is not the time for cowardice. Our Country has become so
> paralyzed by political correctness that we have allowed a vile and
> determined enemy to breach what should be the safest place in America, an
> Army post.
>
> We have become so politically correct that our media is more concerned
> about the stress of the shooter, Major Nidal Malik Hasan. The misplaced
> benevolence intending to portray him as a victim is despicable. The fact
> that there are some who have now created an entire new classification
> called; “pre-virtual vicarious Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)” is
> unconscionable.
>
> This is not a “man caused disaster”. It is what it is, an Islamic jihadist
> attack.
>
> We have seen this before in 2003 when a SGT Hasan of the 101st Airborne
> Division (Air Assault) threw hand grenades and opened fire into his
> Commanding Officer’s tent in Kuwait. We have seen the foiled attempt of
> Albanian Muslims who sought to attack Ft Dix, NJ. Recently we saw a young
> convert to Islam named Carlos Bledsoe travel to Yemen, receive terrorist
> training, and return to gun down two US Soldiers at a Little Rock,
> Arkansas Army recruiting station. We thwarted another Islamic terrorist
> plot in North Carolina which had US Marine Corps Base, Quantico as a
> target.
>
> What have we done with all these prevalent trends? Nothing.
>
> What we see are recalcitrant leaders who are refusing to confront the
> issue, Islamic terrorist infiltration into America, and possibly further
> into our Armed Services. Instead we have a multiculturalism and diversity
> syndrome on steroids.
>
> Major Hasan should have never been transferred to Ft Hood, matter of fact
> he should have been Chaptered from the Army. His previous statements, poor
> evaluation reports, and the fact that the FBI had him under investigation
> for jihadist website posting should have been proof positive.
>
> However, what we have is a typical liberal approach to find a victim, not
> the 13 and 30 Soldiers and Civilian, but rather the poor shooter. A
> shooter who we are told was a great American, who loved the Army and
> serving his Nation and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR)
> stating that his actions had nothing to do with religious belief.
>
> We know that Major Hasan deliberately planned this episode; he did give
> away his possessions. He stood atop a table in the confined space of the
> Soldier Readiness Center shouting “Allahu Akhbar”, same chant as the 9-11
> terrorists and those we fight against overseas in the Iraq and Afghanistan
> theaters of operation.
>
> No one in leadership seems willing to sound the alarm for the American
> people; they are therefore complicit in any future attacks. Our Congress
> should suspend the insidious action to vote on a preposterous and
> unconstitutional healthcare bill and resolve the issue of “protecting the
> American people”.
>
> The recent incidents in Dearborn Michigan, Boston Massachusetts, Dallas
> Texas, and Chicago Illinois should bear witness to the fact that we have
> an Islamic terrorism issue in America. And don’t have CAIR call me and try
> to issue a vanilla press statement; they are an illegitimate terrorist
> associated organization which should be disbanded.
>
> We have Saudi Arabia funding close to 80% of the mosques in the United
> States, one right here in South Florida, Pompano Beach. Are we building
> churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia? Are “Kaffirs” and “Infidels”
> allowed travel to Mecca?
>
> So much for peaceful coexistence.
>
> Saudi Arabia is sponsoring radical Imams who enter into our prisons and
> convert young men into a virulent Wahabbist ideology….one resulting in
> four individuals wanting to destroy synagogues in New York with plastic
> explosives. Thank God the explosives were dummy. They are sponsoring
> textbooks which present Islamic centric revisionist history in our
> schools.
>
> We must recognize that there is an urgent need to separate the
> theo-political radical Islamic ideology out of our American society. We
> must begin to demand surveillance of suspected Imams and mosques that are
> spreading hate and preaching the overthrow of our Constitutional
> Republic……that speech is not protected under First Amendment, it is
> sedition and if done by an American treason.
>
> There should not be some 30 Islamic terrorist training camps in America
> that has nothing to do with First Amendment, Freedom of Religion. The
> Saudis are not our friends and any American political figure who believes
> such is delusional.
>
> When tolerance becomes a one way street it certainly leads to cultural
> suicide. We are on that street. Liberals cannot be trusted to defend our
> Republic, because their sympathies obviously lie with their perceived
> victim, Major Nidal Malik Hasan.
>
> I make no apologies for these words, and anyone angered by them, please,
> go to Ft Hood and look into the eyes of the real victims. The tragedy at
> Ft Hood Texas did not have to happen. Consider now the feelings of those
> there and on every military installation in the world. Consider the
> feelings of the Warriors deployed into combat zones who now are concerned
> that their loved ones at home are in a combat zone.
>
> Ft Hood suffered an Islamic jihadist attack, stop the denial, and realize
> a simple point.
>
> The reality of your enemy must become your own.
>
> Steadfast and Loyal, Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret)"
>
> Thank you, Col. West ...
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Nov 6, 7:12=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The shooting that every one has heard about in Fort Hood was tragic on so
> many levels and continues to be.
>
> My utmost respect goes out to the armed forces and my deepest sympathies =
to
> the victims and their families.
>
> It was tragic that so many were injured and killed.
>
> It is tragic that the shooter is only being identified as a suspect rathe=
r
> than "the shooter". =A0Damn it, when there is a room full of eye witnesse=
s
> there is no suspect, there is only the one that committed the crime, the
> witnesses and the victims, =A0Plain and simple.
>
> It is tragic that when the truth and facts are so blatantly clear that th=
ere
> will still be days and days of investigations long before there is a tria=
l.
>
> It is tragic that the trial will last for months, maybe years.
>
> It is tragic in this case that there will be a need for a trial.
>
> It is tragic that our country has been steered to believe that one does n=
ot
> have to fulfill his obligations or have any accountability.
>
> It is tragic that justice is seldom truly served.
>
> It is tragic that our country is filled with so many spineless and corrup=
t
> politicians that truly rely on the ignorant, which are so easily deceived=
,
> to vote them into office.
>
> It is tragic that those politicians are committed to insuring that their
> ignorant constituency becomes even more ignorant with each passing
> generation. =A0 Think Public Education.
>
> It is tragic that out politicians have appointed themselves as "our
> keepers".
>
> It is tragic that there is no longer any honor in winning. =A0Think troph=
ies
> for every body and no longer keeping score so that there are no winners.
>
> I am truly grateful that I recognize all of this and know that not so dee=
p
> down, evil is fueling all of the tragedies.

I think it is Revelations that speaks of demons being cast to the
Earth towards the end times. They seem to be landing.....

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:23:53 +0800, "diggerop" <toobusy@themoment>
> wrote:
>
>>"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>My philosophy is that if I ever wake up injured in a hospital from a
>>motorcycle accident, then I simply wasn't going fast enough at the time.
>
> Sounds like the biker method of being blind sided by some fence post.


It happens. A lot. Sometimes in traffic, mostly with big trees on the
twisty's in my part of the world. If I recall correctly, stats for this
country show a bike rider is 5 times more likely to be killed than a car
driver. One big problem we have, is that so many car drivers act as if
you're not there, so getting cut off or forced out of a lane is a common
occurrence. In the bad old days of my youth, we would carry a length of
chain. Any "cager" (car driver) that deliberately cut you off or forced you
over subsequently recieved a length of chain across their hood or windscreen
as we passed them. Does wonders for the paint work .... and their driving
habits.
Getting too old for that sort of behaviour now, which is probably a good
thing.
It's also an effective, if dangerous, method of transport in heavy city
traffic. Traffic jams don't exist for bike riders. We are permitted to
lane-split, so when two or more long lines of cars are stacked up at the
traffic lights, or moving at a slow pace, we ride between cars to the head
of the queue.

Bike riding is one of the few things the "Nanny State" hasn't managed to
interfere with much, (apart from making helmets mandatory)....... yet. Hence
its appeal. I let them take my guns, .... wasn't using them any more, and
the possibility existed of some idiot stealing them, so it didn't worry me.
I will *not* let them take the bike. : )

diggerop.

Greg G. wrote:
>
> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
> argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
> relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
> future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.

>
>> In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill
>> the fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily,
>> unto the third generation) and move on.
>
> Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
> I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and
> relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
> the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
> nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)
>

It's called cordon sanitiare. Or fire break. Take no chances.

Tim Daneliuk said:

>Luigi Zanasi wrote:

>> Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
>> depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
>> government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
>> 1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
>> Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.
>>
>Government spending is how the 1930s Depression was lengthened beyond
>its natural lifecycle.

Oh, please. This is a long discounted canard.

>Economics is called the "Dismal Science" for a reason - economists never
>allow reality to intrude on their cute littler theories (as witnessed above).

No fan of economists here, but our current situation was caused by the
wholesale export of jobs and factories, thieving bankers, K-street,
financial con-men and rocketing energy costs. War profiteers and
energy monopolies coddled by the government haven't helped either.



Greg G.

On Nov 20, 12:57=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:5d1ffd2d-d596-4138-9580-0af6be93b5d7@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I think it is Revelations that speaks of demons being cast to the
> > Earth towards the end times. They seem to be landing.....
>
> Revelation... singular.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

Thank you. Now I'll be able to find it again.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:41:53 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jack Stein said:
>Surely you jest, kind sir... I'd prefer to be a bit more accurate in
>targeting people for extermination.

Jack has little regard as to how anyone is targeted, just as long as
it isn't him.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:49:55 -0500, the infamous [email protected]
scrawled the following:

>On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:45:17 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
>>> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it.
>
>I'm sure you're right, but the bigger problem is that deciding what's
>a threat and what isn't is not an exact science. And, even if it was,
>digging deep enough with every person who displayed the occasional
>symptoms to indicate trouble would mean thousands and thousands of
>examinations with only a few of them bearing fruit. ~ Not a likely
>scenario. Too much manpower needed.

The 3 most likely causes are:

1) Human error. It's hard to judge the changes in others. HS = 20/20.
2) Complacency (if not redundant)
and
3) Potential costs, which brought about our current policies

--
The Smart Person learns from his mistakes.
The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others.
And then there are all the rest of us...
-----------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:20:25 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>So far all we've seen is same old, same old and an empty suit waving in the
>wind ...

"So far" as you label it has been a relatively short time. Considering
the mountain of grief that the US financial industry is in, it always
surprises me when people still expect instant results and instant
gratification. A whole lot of people are going to get a sudden
education course in reality and eye opening as time marches on.
There's just too many people who are 'have nots' to allow the money
mongerers to continue as they have. Your most hated term 'socialism'
is going to come home to roost in one form or another.

Consider what's about to come as the US equivalent of the French
Revolution.

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greg G. wrote:
>>
>> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
>> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
>> argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
>> relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
>> future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.
>
> His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
> interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
> to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
> recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.
>

I can't find the link right now, but a new movie is being made. It was on
Yahoo earlier this week. In the movie, they destroy the White House, the
Vatican, many other recognizable buildings, but they skipped the Muslim
building for fear of reprisal from the peace loving people.

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:10:22 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>Was it because his neighbors referred to him as "number 9" ???
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766545/ns/us_news-washington_post/

This kind of crap burns me up. I keep seeing more and more crosses,
painted rocks, religious candles, balloons, and other crappy memorials
all over the sides of the freeway and the roadsides here, both in and
out of town. Why can't those people go to the damned cemetary and
worship/curse/pray/memorialize there, instead? <sigh>

--
The Smart Person learns from his mistakes.
The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others.
And then there are all the rest of us...
-----------------------------------------------------

diggerop said:

>It happens. A lot. Sometimes in traffic, mostly with big trees on the
>twisty's in my part of the world. If I recall correctly, stats for this
>country show a bike rider is 5 times more likely to be killed than a car
>driver. One big problem we have, is that so many car drivers act as if
>you're not there, so getting cut off or forced out of a lane is a common
>occurrence. In the bad old days of my youth, we would carry a length of
>chain. Any "cager" (car driver) that deliberately cut you off or forced you
>over subsequently recieved a length of chain across their hood or windscreen
>as we passed them. Does wonders for the paint work .... and their driving
>habits.

Don't have the stats for the US, but the advent of cell phones has
worsened the situation. Defensive riding is a requirement for survival
on any continent. Survived youth and was pretty aggressive on the
twisties. Also built and raced SCCA type cars. Don't ride in the city
anymore, however - the drivers are too distracted and thoughtless.

Over here, the balls from large ball bearings are effective against an
errant driver's windshield. But again, cell phones make this
problematic. The public attitude seems to be that poor driving habits
and inattention are excusable, property damage is not. And the "law"
mostly conforms to this attitude. Then you have the elderly to contend
with...

>Getting too old for that sort of behaviour now, which is probably a good
>thing.

Never too old for vengeance. Or behavioral correction measures. ;-)

>It's also an effective, if dangerous, method of transport in heavy city
>traffic. Traffic jams don't exist for bike riders. We are permitted to
>lane-split, so when two or more long lines of cars are stacked up at the
>traffic lights, or moving at a slow pace, we ride between cars to the head
>of the queue.

Bought my first street bike (Honda CB900F) to travel to work down an
interstate which took 5 minutes to travel on off hours, and 1.25 hours
to travel during the commute hours. That was 2.5 hours a day I didn't
want to give up. The scenic rides through the mountains were a
secondary benefit. Crazy chicks are drawn to them as well. One of the
leading items on my bucket list are to ride the length of New Zealand.
Another is to drive a Porsche 911 Turbo Carerra balls out at Limerock
or Road Atlanta.

>Bike riding is one of the few things the "Nanny State" hasn't managed to
>interfere with much, (apart from making helmets mandatory)....... yet. Hence
>its appeal. I let them take my guns, .... wasn't using them any more, and
>the possibility existed of some idiot stealing them, so it didn't worry me.
>I will *not* let them take the bike. : )

I've owned both, and will give up neither. And believe it or not we
still have a couple of states in the US which are helmet optional;
Florida being one of them. Besides, beyond a certain speed, the helmet
is only for identification purposes. ;-)



Greg G.

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> I wish Obama well, but I think he's going to go down in history as
> another Jimmy Carter--a decent man without a clue.

I heard Lawrence J. Peter (the discoverer of "The Peter Principle") say: "I
have been studying governments, man and boy, for over forty years. I have
yet to determine whether we are being led by well-meaning fools or by really
intelligent people who are just putting us on."

"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J. Clarke said:
>
>>Greg G. wrote:
>>> I've owned both, and will give up neither. And believe it or not we
>>> still have a couple of states in the US which are helmet optional;
>>> Florida being one of them. Besides, beyond a certain speed, the helmet
>>> is only for identification purposes. ;-)
>>
>>I don't expect it to save my life, but I do expect it to spare me some
>>pain.
>>Road rash on the face won't kill you, but it will make you _wish_ it had.
>
> I wear a helmet, and have worn harnesses or seat belts since a teen.
> Only laid it down once; a drunk driver ran the sign on a side street
> on a Saturday night. This was 23 years ago, and the brown looking
> marks on my arms are still visible. I'm not sure, but think there is
> still some burnt asphalt in there. Glad it's not on my face - there's
> plenty of fugly there already.
>
>
> Greg G.


I've been off a few times, only once was it bad. Riding home in the country,
doing around 85 mph on an unsealed road and someone had pulled a wire gate
across a shared laneway to direct a mob of sheep into an adjacent paddock.
(common occurrence in rural Oz back then) By the time I realised it was
there, I was skidding down the road like I'd bee flung out of a catapault,
face down and trying unsuccessfully to turn onto my back. Shredded my
leathers and a lot of skin too. No helmet. Two weeks before I could walk or
use my hands.
Promptly sold the bike, a Kawasaki Mach 111, fastest thing on two wheels in
it's day. And lethal.
Went back to riding ponderous old cruisers.

diggerop

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip

>
> "This business" happened on a Federal reservation--does the state of Texas
> have any jurisdiction at all with regard to events that take place on
> military bases?
>


Apparently other entities do as the civilian police were the ones that
entered the area and shot the murderer.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:13:38 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>I think it's sad that he survived. Now it will cost millions of
>>dollars to try him and every one of the victims' families will be left
>>with feelings of disgust, moreso than if he'd been killed, no matter
>>what the outcome of the trial. And the perp'll be forced to house the
>>guilt for the rest of his life, too. Sitrep: Lose/Lose.
>
> Does the armed forces have a death penalty on conviction available?

yes.


> Does the fact that the US is in Iraq mean that this is war time under
> war rules?

No. We haven't had a war since WW2.

> Good chance he'll end up being dead anyway. Certainly if
> he's imprisoned instead of executed, he'll have to be segregated. I'm
> sure other convicts would be lining up to break his neck and not give
> it a second thought.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:10:22 -0800, evodawg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Think it already has. Did we not all see a year ago the sheep following
>>the
>>Messiah to the voting booths. I also remember some fainting by just being
>>in his presence. I have zero confidence in the direction of this country.
>
> Despite your insulting rhetoric, there's a huge difference between
> people hoping and people turning into sheep as though hypnotized.
> Your "Messiah" as you choose to call him offered and does still offer
> hope. Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
> realize that they're not going down the right path.
>
> Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
> into a profitable world, what will you say?
>
> Of course you'd say that it would have happened anyway. Your arrogance
> just wouldn't allow for any other conclusion. Sounds like you're the
> sheep to me.

I absolutely totally believe that the economy has run it's course regardless
of who did what, had they done any thing or not. I blame the people for
panicking and bailing out of the stock market and I blame the media and the
Mad Dog guy that you seldom see any more for the panic. The media is
unmatched in the ability of building a mountian out of a mole hill.

Swine flu is still the raging topic. Swine flu has killed 1000 Americans
since Spring. What they don't tell you is that the "Regular" flu has
continued to kill 35,000 Americans since the Spring. I believe that the
comon cold is going to cause more problems that the Swine flu will
discounting the panic that the media has caused.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:07:54 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs,
>> cronies in the White House, and on and on.
>> Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.
>
> Ok, but you've got to admit, in the political spectrum, especially as
> president, those things are a mandatory job requirement for survival.
> Even in our penny ante Canadian political environment, things like
> that are part and parcel of the job. Not saying it's right, just that
> it's the way it is.

Nah, they're optional. I think the last president to have a vegetable garden
on the White House grounds was FDR.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>> This was as much an act of islamic terrorism as 9/11/2001.
>>
>
> Ah, but we wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions until all the facts
> are in, would we?

Oh noooooooooooo we surely would not. We cannot trust anyones recount of
what they actually witnessed during the slauder.
We woul surely need to see a video tape form several angles to verify all of
the statements. and if there was no video tape, well, who knows if all of
the witnesses just made all of this up.

> Could we at least say that Hassan "acted stupidly"?

Absolutely. He acted stupidly for joining the armed forces when he had no
intention of fulfilling his obligation. He was very stupid.
A very stupid man. Still he has no excuse for murdering all of those
soldiers.

>
> /This PC crap is going to get us all killed

Politicaly Correct in it self translates to stupidity. Yes it is going to
turn future generations in to the sheep that follow the political figures to
the slauter house.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> diggerop wrote:
>> "Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>>> This kind of crap burns me up. I keep seeing more and more crosses,
>>>> painted rocks, religious candles, balloons, and other crappy
>>>> memorials all over the sides of the freeway and the roadsides here,
>>>> both in and out of town. Why can't those people go to the damned
>>>> cemetary and worship/curse/pray/memorialize there, instead? <sigh>
>>>
>>> I think sometimes, seeing such things by the roadside, is a reminder
>>> to other drivers to take more care. Non of us is indestructible
>>> though some, especially motorcyclists, seem to think they are.
>>>
>>
>>
>> True. I'm one of them. With an aggressive riding style and attitude
>> to boot. I like the freedom. Always had a bike, - cruisers mostly -
>> first bike was a WLA Harley. (Pig of a thing.)
>> My philosophy is that if I ever wake up injured in a hospital from a
>> motorcycle accident, then I simply wasn't going fast enough at the
>> time. ; )
>
> Every now and then I remind myself "you want to die on this bike, not in
> bed
> of cancer like your parents".
>
>


Heh. Yep, preferably with your middle finger raised to the rest of the
world. : )

Swingman wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>
>> Well lets not forget the State Run Media making excuses for this
>> lunatic or
>> terrorist. Making statements like our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan
>> caused him to go over the edge. What a bunch of Bull Shit. The guy never
>> saw any active duty and went to Med School on our dime to the tune of
>> 500,000.00............
>
> This was as much an act of islamic terrorism as 9/11/2001.

"“Tragedy at Ft Hood” Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret)

This past Thursday 13 American Soldiers were killed and another 30
wounded at a horrific mass shooting at US Army installation, Ft Hood
Texas. As I watched in horror and then anger I recalled my two years of
final service in the Army as a Battalion Commander at Ft Hood, 2002-2004.

My wife and two daughters were stunned at the incident having lived on
the post in family housing.

A military installation, whether it is Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, or
Coast Guard, is supposed to be a safe sanctuary for our Warriors and
their families. It is intended to provide a home whereby our “Band of
Brothers and Sisters” can find solace and bond beyond just the foxhole
but as family units.

A military installation is supposed to be a place where our Warriors
train for war, to serve and protect our Nation.

On Thursday, 5 November 2009 Ft Hood became a part of the battlefield in
the war against Islamic totalitarianism and state sponsored terrorism.

There may be those who feel threatened by my words and would even
recommend they not be uttered. To those individuals I say step aside
because now is not the time for cowardice. Our Country has become so
paralyzed by political correctness that we have allowed a vile and
determined enemy to breach what should be the safest place in America,
an Army post.

We have become so politically correct that our media is more concerned
about the stress of the shooter, Major Nidal Malik Hasan. The misplaced
benevolence intending to portray him as a victim is despicable. The fact
that there are some who have now created an entire new classification
called; “pre-virtual vicarious Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)” is
unconscionable.

This is not a “man caused disaster”. It is what it is, an Islamic
jihadist attack.

We have seen this before in 2003 when a SGT Hasan of the 101st Airborne
Division (Air Assault) threw hand grenades and opened fire into his
Commanding Officer’s tent in Kuwait. We have seen the foiled attempt of
Albanian Muslims who sought to attack Ft Dix, NJ. Recently we saw a
young convert to Islam named Carlos Bledsoe travel to Yemen, receive
terrorist training, and return to gun down two US Soldiers at a Little
Rock, Arkansas Army recruiting station. We thwarted another Islamic
terrorist plot in North Carolina which had US Marine Corps Base,
Quantico as a target.

What have we done with all these prevalent trends? Nothing.

What we see are recalcitrant leaders who are refusing to confront the
issue, Islamic terrorist infiltration into America, and possibly further
into our Armed Services. Instead we have a multiculturalism and
diversity syndrome on steroids.

Major Hasan should have never been transferred to Ft Hood, matter of
fact he should have been Chaptered from the Army. His previous
statements, poor evaluation reports, and the fact that the FBI had him
under investigation for jihadist website posting should have been proof
positive.

However, what we have is a typical liberal approach to find a victim,
not the 13 and 30 Soldiers and Civilian, but rather the poor shooter. A
shooter who we are told was a great American, who loved the Army and
serving his Nation and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR)
stating that his actions had nothing to do with religious belief.

We know that Major Hasan deliberately planned this episode; he did give
away his possessions. He stood atop a table in the confined space of the
Soldier Readiness Center shouting “Allahu Akhbar”, same chant as the
9-11 terrorists and those we fight against overseas in the Iraq and
Afghanistan theaters of operation.

No one in leadership seems willing to sound the alarm for the American
people; they are therefore complicit in any future attacks. Our Congress
should suspend the insidious action to vote on a preposterous and
unconstitutional healthcare bill and resolve the issue of “protecting
the American people”.

The recent incidents in Dearborn Michigan, Boston Massachusetts, Dallas
Texas, and Chicago Illinois should bear witness to the fact that we have
an Islamic terrorism issue in America. And don’t have CAIR call me and
try to issue a vanilla press statement; they are an illegitimate
terrorist associated organization which should be disbanded.

We have Saudi Arabia funding close to 80% of the mosques in the United
States, one right here in South Florida, Pompano Beach. Are we building
churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia? Are “Kaffirs” and “Infidels”
allowed travel to Mecca?

So much for peaceful coexistence.

Saudi Arabia is sponsoring radical Imams who enter into our prisons and
convert young men into a virulent Wahabbist ideology….one resulting in
four individuals wanting to destroy synagogues in New York with plastic
explosives. Thank God the explosives were dummy. They are sponsoring
textbooks which present Islamic centric revisionist history in our schools.

We must recognize that there is an urgent need to separate the
theo-political radical Islamic ideology out of our American society. We
must begin to demand surveillance of suspected Imams and mosques that
are spreading hate and preaching the overthrow of our Constitutional
Republic……that speech is not protected under First Amendment, it is
sedition and if done by an American treason.

There should not be some 30 Islamic terrorist training camps in America
that has nothing to do with First Amendment, Freedom of Religion. The
Saudis are not our friends and any American political figure who
believes such is delusional.

When tolerance becomes a one way street it certainly leads to cultural
suicide. We are on that street. Liberals cannot be trusted to defend our
Republic, because their sympathies obviously lie with their perceived
victim, Major Nidal Malik Hasan.

I make no apologies for these words, and anyone angered by them, please,
go to Ft Hood and look into the eyes of the real victims. The tragedy at
Ft Hood Texas did not have to happen. Consider now the feelings of those
there and on every military installation in the world. Consider the
feelings of the Warriors deployed into combat zones who now are
concerned that their loved ones at home are in a combat zone.

Ft Hood suffered an Islamic jihadist attack, stop the denial, and
realize a simple point.

The reality of your enemy must become your own.

Steadfast and Loyal, Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret)"

Thank you, Col. West ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:07:54 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs,
>>cronies
>>in the White House, and on and on.
>>Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.
>
> Ok, but you've got to admit, in the political spectrum, especially as
> president, those things are a mandatory job requirement for survival.
> Even in our penny ante Canadian political environment, things like
> that are part and parcel of the job. Not saying it's right, just that
> it's the way it is.

Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing exactly
what you do. Our political system is in serious need of overhaul, but it
will never happen.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:10:22 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>Was it because his neighbors referred to him as "number 9" ???
>>
>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766545/ns/us_news-washington_post/
>
> This kind of crap burns me up.

Yeah, cause, like, if you're ostracized or different, you are going to
turn into a murderous jihadi. It was all the neighbors' fault.

> I keep seeing more and more crosses,
> painted rocks, religious candles, balloons, and other crappy memorials
> all over the sides of the freeway and the roadsides here, both in and
> out of town. Why can't those people go to the damned cemetary and
> worship/curse/pray/memorialize there, instead? <sigh>
>

I don't see a real problem with memorials, but why is there a memorial
where the perp lived? Wouldn't that be more appropriate either where the
incident occurred or the homes of the victims?


> --
> The Smart Person learns from his mistakes.
> The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others.
> And then there are all the rest of us...
> -----------------------------------------------------

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:10:22 -0800, evodawg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Think it already has. Did we not all see a year ago the sheep
>> following the Messiah to the voting booths. I also remember some
>> fainting by just being in his presence. I have zero confidence in
>> the direction of this country.
>
> Despite your insulting rhetoric, there's a huge difference between
> people hoping and people turning into sheep as though hypnotized.
> Your "Messiah" as you choose to call him offered and does still offer
> hope. Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
> realize that they're not going down the right path.
>
> Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
> into a profitable world, what will you say?
>
> Of course you'd say that it would have happened anyway. Your arrogance
> just wouldn't allow for any other conclusion. Sounds like you're the
> sheep to me.

"Hope" is not a strategy; "Change" is not a tactic.

Both are similar to the matron's advice to the young bride regarding her
wedding night: "Just lie back and think of England."

Was it because his neighbors referred to him as "number 9" ???

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766545/ns/us_news-washington_post/

evodawg wrote:

> Well lets not forget the State Run Media making excuses for this lunatic or
> terrorist. Making statements like our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan
> caused him to go over the edge. What a bunch of Bull Shit. The guy never
> saw any active duty and went to Med School on our dime to the tune of
> 500,000.00............

This was as much an act of islamic terrorism as 9/11/2001.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:

> evodawg wrote:
>
>> Well lets not forget the State Run Media making excuses for this lunatic
>> or terrorist. Making statements like our policies in Iraq and Afghanistan
>> caused him to go over the edge. What a bunch of Bull Shit. The guy never
>> saw any active duty and went to Med School on our dime to the tune of
>> 500,000.00............
>
> This was as much an act of islamic terrorism as 9/11/2001.
>

Ah, but we wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions until all the facts
are in, would we?

Could we at least say that Hassan "acted stupidly"?

/This PC crap is going to get us all killed

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> writes:
>>The shooting that every one has heard about in Fort Hood was tragic on so
>>many levels and continues to be.
>
> Is it any more tragic than the fellow in cleveland who murdered 11 women?
>
> Why aren't you ranting about him?


What is his name?

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The shooting that every one has heard about in Fort Hood was tragic on
> so many levels and continues to be.
>
> My utmost respect goes out to the armed forces and my deepest
> sympathies to the victims and their families.
>
> It was tragic that so many were injured and killed.
>
> It is tragic that the shooter is only being identified as a suspect
> rather than "the shooter". Damn it, when there is a room full of eye
> witnesses there is no suspect, there is only the one that committed
> the crime, the witnesses and the victims, Plain and simple.
>
> It is tragic that when the truth and facts are so blatantly clear that
> there will still be days and days of investigations long before there
> is a trial.
>
> It is tragic that the trial will last for months, maybe years.
>
> It is tragic in this case that there will be a need for a trial.
>
> It is tragic that our country has been steered to believe that one
> does not have to fulfill his obligations or have any accountability.
>
> It is tragic that justice is seldom truly served.
>
> It is tragic that our country is filled with so many spineless and
> corrupt politicians that truly rely on the ignorant, which are so
> easily deceived, to vote them into office.
>
> It is tragic that those politicians are committed to insuring that
> their ignorant constituency becomes even more ignorant with each
> passing generation. Think Public Education.
>
> It is tragic that out politicians have appointed themselves as "our
> keepers".
>
> It is tragic that there is no longer any honor in winning. Think
> trophies for every body and no longer keeping score so that there are
> no winners.
>
> I am truly grateful that I recognize all of this and know that not so
> deep down, evil is fueling all of the tragedies.

I ully agree with the above!!

I have never been and hope not ever to be in the position of a
psychiatrist who has been treating PTSD in so many people. I thougth
there was something like a rule that psychiatrists needed to be under the
care of a psychiatrist.

Whether this guy was a muslim, an agnost or right wing christian has
nothing to do with his apparent mental disease.

Just my opinion, YMMV and probably does
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> snip
>
> I fear is that this incident is going to further promote a blanket
> anti-Muslim sentiment, and therefore anti-American sentiment in
> response, that has become so prolific in the TV media since 9-11.
> Extremists represent a minority of Muslims, just as Christian
> extremists constitute a minority within their religion. Call me a
> Pollyanna, but I refuse to paint every Muslim with the same broad
> strokes. Most are loving, peaceful, people who want the same things in
> life everyone does. But as with most ideologies, there are some who
> agitate and seek prominent stature through inflammatory hate speech
> and behavior; and some people, being acutely authoritarian in nature,
> are swept right along... Hate is an easy sell when mired in misery -
> which much of the ME has been for a thousand years.
>
> And before anyone retorts, No, I'm not a Muslim.
>
>
> Greg G.

Well said, Greg.

As I alluded to to in an earlier thread, I lived and worked in the world's
largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, some years back. During my time there, I
was made warmly welcome by all that I came across.
The contrast with my own culture was dramatic. Total strangers in both the
cities and villages, recognising I was not Indonesian, would stop me in the
street and engage me in conversation, often in very poor English, or in my
even poorer Bahasa Indonesia. Every single one of them had a smile on their
face and wanted to make a point of making me feel welcome in their country.
I must confess, I found it a little unnerving at the beginning. ( I come
from stern Protestant stock, - racist, intolerant and highly suspicious of
strangers of any ilk.) I was also invited into the homes of total
strangers. Would not have happened where I grew up.
It was explained to me that it is an important part of both their culture
and religion to welcome and assist others. To do so is seen as a very good
thing. Sadly, I could not say that same universal friendliness and tolerance
would have been reciprocated in my own country. (Then or now.)

Were there some radicals who didn't want strangers like me in their country
and advocated violence as a means of achieving that? Yes. A small minority.
Were there white anglo-saxon protestants in my own country advocating the
same thing? Yes. Again, a small minority. (Around that period, there was one
group going around setting fire to Asian restaurants and trying to stir up
civil unrest on the basis of race. They were caught and jailed.) Would it be
reasonable to label the rest of Australians as being of similar ilk? Of
course not.
Nor would we wish to paint Christians worldwide with the same brush based on
the Catholics and Protestants of Northern Ireland, whose main occupation in
life until recent times, seemed to involve slaughtering each other, based on
religious denomination.

My experiences above are of course, based on one brief period in one Muslim
dominated country. Others may be dramatically different. It did, however,
give me a perspective that I would not have otherwise had and destroyed a
few of my own pre-conceived ideas along the way.

Hopefully, my eyes were opened a little more and just maybe, it may have
made me a slightly better and more tolerant person.

diggerop

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

> ---------------------------------------------------------
> The emotions of the moment, while allowing someone to vent the spleen, are
> seldom reliable.
>
> Eye witness accounts are often later found to be in error.
>
> Under the US system of justice, a person is assumed to be innocent until
> proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law.
>
> So until a conviction has been rendered, "Suspect" is the label of choice
> of our system of justice.
>
> The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".
>
> "Why" was he promoted to Major just after receiving a less than favorable
> review at Walter Reed.
>
> "Why" wasn't a red flag raised about his recent behavior changes which
> included giving away his possesions as well as dressing in Middle Eastern
> garb and passing out copies of the Koran?
>
> "Why" didn't his attempt to seek legal counsel to avoid being sent into a
> war zone raise questions?
>
> "Why" didn't the suicide of one of his patients at Walter Reed raise a
> flag that maybe he needed help.
>
> Where was the physiotherapist to provide a means to unload his thoughts
> and provide help.
>
> Thought that was a requirement of his position.
>
> Does this unfortunate event some how point to an overall larger problem
> with our present military system?
>
> Is the US trying to fight two (2) wars on the cheap without enough troops
> to get the job done?
>
> Those are some very difficult questions; however, they need to be
> addressed by the military along with the FBI and others doing the
> investigation(s).
>
> What can't be allowed is a rush to judgment that results in a "White Wash"
> of the tragic event.
>
> Strange as it may seem to some, the fact that the suspect survived can be
> considered as a positive thing.
>
> At least he is able to answer questions as long as he is alive.
>
> Lew
>

If the justice system worked, I believe that we would not have to be asking
some of the questions that you mentioned above. The killers have learned to
work the system. If they knew that being seen doing the act would speed
them to their punishment rather than become make them a celebrity of sorts
they would think twice about trying to pull a stunt such as this. Or
perhaps convey their message in a more civilized way, maybe. Anyway, swift
justice in no longer a result.

Greg G. wrote:
> HeyBub said:
>
>> Greg G. wrote:
>>> Lew Hodgett said:
>>>> ...
>>>> The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".
>>> I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
>>> But that truly is THE question of the day.
>>>
>> Yep, but should it be?
>>
>> Carl Jung postulated that humans are evolutionarily compelled to ask (and
>> discover) the "why" of something. When confronted with an effect, we MUST
>> find out the "cause." It's in our genes!
>
> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did

Easy....his superior officer has a hot job to get done.....PTSD is THE
hot button issue of the day. Firing a psychiatrist, much less one who
is a member of any minority, probably would have gotten him a circular
firing squad. He'll get one anyway, because there is now an extreme
need to identify responsible parties.


> they miss clear cut signs of trouble,

What is THE clear cut sign of trouble? Which argument with my husband
will get me a bullet through my head? (Just asking, we don't argue :o)


not why did he do it. I'll not
> argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
> relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
> future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.
>
> As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
> why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
> a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
> when I can't. ;-)
>
>> In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
>> fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
>> third generation) and move on.
>
> Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
> I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and

We were all ready to tell our former friends to f--- off when they
disagreed with our campaign to invade Iraq. France, having the
experience of fighting a 20 year war in Viet Nam before we went in to
prove that such was unwinnable, told us not to go. Saddam was a truly
bad guy whose US-supplied military was bought for him to fight Iran
before the US decided to destroy it. And we wonder why the world hates
our guts?

The shooter is first generation American, from Palestinian parents and
with family still in Palestine.....Americans know it is unfashionable to
express racist sentiment, but blogs are full of it. Right after 9/11,
an acquaintance told me that the US should deport everyone not born in
the US. Unfortunately, that would have included her :o)

Just the constant use of expressions like "Muslim extremists" takes it's
toll. We don't use "Christian child molester" or "Christian child
rapist" .....Suicide bombers and murderers aren't practicing Islamic
beliefs any more than Jim Jones was practicing Christianity when he
dished up the KoolAid.

> relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
> the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
> nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)
>
>
> Greg G.

"Markem" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 12:35:56 -0500, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I wish Obama well, but I think he's going to go down in history as another
>>Jimmy Carter--a decent man without a clue.
>
> He ain't Jimmy. The is a man with a clue and an iron fist under
> velvet. How he is going to get everyone to think that he fufilled
> they're dream they thought his election promised them will be
> interesting to watch. But then the world will end in 2012 so who gives
> a damn.
>
> Live and enjoy life


His hardest problem will be getting a lot of people off of the government
checks and have them start working.

We all hope he does well but we have seen this play out before. Eventually
every one has to get a job for a country to prosper, not every one wants a
job.

"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>> This kind of crap burns me up. I keep seeing more and more crosses,
>> painted rocks, religious candles, balloons, and other crappy memorials
>> all over the sides of the freeway and the roadsides here, both in and
>> out of town. Why can't those people go to the damned cemetary and
>> worship/curse/pray/memorialize there, instead? <sigh>
>
> I think sometimes, seeing such things by the roadside, is a reminder to
> other drivers to take more care. Non of us is indestructible though some,
> especially motorcyclists, seem to think they are.
>


True. I'm one of them. With an aggressive riding style and attitude to boot.
I like the freedom. Always had a bike, - cruisers mostly - first bike was a
WLA Harley. (Pig of a thing.)
My philosophy is that if I ever wake up injured in a hospital from a
motorcycle accident, then I simply wasn't going fast enough at the time.
; )

diggerop

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5d1ffd2d-d596-4138-9580-0af6be93b5d7@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...


> I think it is Revelations that speaks of demons being cast to the
> Earth towards the end times. They seem to be landing.....

Revelation... singular.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:23:53 +0800, "diggerop" <toobusy@themoment>
wrote:

>"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>My philosophy is that if I ever wake up injured in a hospital from a
>motorcycle accident, then I simply wasn't going fast enough at the time.

Sounds like the biker method of being blind sided by some fence post.

Greg G. wrote:
> Lew Hodgett said:
>
>> ...
>> The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".
>
> I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
> But that truly is THE question of the day.
>

Yep, but should it be?

Carl Jung postulated that humans are evolutionarily compelled to ask (and
discover) the "why" of something. When confronted with an effect, we MUST
find out the "cause." It's in our genes!

That makes sense. If you don't want to get hit by another rock, you'd best
find the caveman who threw the first one! Those who don't care whether
they've been hit by a rock die off rather quickly.

Unfortunately, this compulsion sometimes generates silliness. In our quest
to answer "why," bizarre constructs are often promoted as the "one true
cause." Examples include untold hours of speculation in UFOs, JFK
assassination conspiracy theories, global warming, the pyramids built by
space aliens, and so on.

The trick is to discriminate between effects that can lead to provident
causes (contraction of the space-time continuum at near-light velocities)
and those that lead to merely useless speculation (Major Hassan's rampage).

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
fucker, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

"diggerop" <toobusy@themoment> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> One big problem we have, is that so many car drivers act as if
> you're not there, so getting cut off or forced out of a lane is a common
> occurrence. In the bad old days of my youth, we would carry a length of
> chain. Any "cager" (car driver) that deliberately cut you off or forced
> you over subsequently recieved a length of chain across their hood or
> windscreen as we passed them. Does wonders for the paint work .... and
> their driving habits.

No need for the chain anymore. The way cars are built these days, a heavy
boot works wonders. The last cell phone talking, SUV driving bit** that
tried to take my lane got a dented door for her trouble. The only way to
stay alive on a bike is to ride like everyone is trying to kill you.

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:45:17 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
>> they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it.

I'm sure you're right, but the bigger problem is that deciding what's
a threat and what isn't is not an exact science. And, even if it was,
digging deep enough with every person who displayed the occasional
symptoms to indicate trouble would mean thousands and thousands of
examinations with only a few of them bearing fruit. ~ Not a likely
scenario. Too much manpower needed.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:13:38 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it's sad that he survived. Now it will cost millions of
>> dollars to try him and every one of the victims' families will be
>> left with feelings of disgust, moreso than if he'd been killed, no
>> matter what the outcome of the trial. And the perp'll be forced to
>> house the guilt for the rest of his life, too. Sitrep: Lose/Lose.
>
> Does the armed forces have a death penalty on conviction available?

Yes

> Does the fact that the US is in Iraq mean that this is war time under
> war rules?

Not applicable. There are a few violations that latch in during wartime
(desertion in the face of the enemy, etc.) but none that apply to Hasan.

> Good chance he'll end up being dead anyway. Certainly if
> he's imprisoned instead of executed, he'll have to be segregated. I'm
> sure other convicts would be lining up to break his neck and not give
> it a second thought.

He will be executed. A 2006 study found that of 21,000 courts martial, only
six defendants successfully used the insanity defense. UCMJ provides for
deciding insanity before trial. Specifically a 706 Panel will be asked to
answer four questions:

(1) At the time of the alleged crime, did the accused have a severe mental
disease or defect? (2)What is the psychiatric diagnosis? (3) At the time of
the alleged crime was the accused unable to appreciate the nature and
quality of his or her conduct due to this severe mental illness? (4) Does
the accused presently have a mental disease or defect that renders him or
her incapable of understanding the nature of the proceedings or to cooperate
intelligently in the defense?

Hasan gave away his shit before the attack, clearly demonstrating
premeditation. He yelled "Allah Akbar" clearly showing motive. He bought his
pistol a month in advance, demonstrating advance planning.

While a jury in San Francisco may look sympathetically on an insanity
defense, Hasan's jurors will be serving officers who piss Naplam and eat
rocks. They will NOT be inclined to entertain a pansy defense or a plea of
insanity as mitigation of the sentence.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:56:22 -0600, Gordon Shumway
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
>>> realize that they're not going down the right path.
>> That is exactly what happened. The fact that you don't understand
>> that point only enforces his "insulting rhetoric."
>
> Possibly so, but whether you want to admit it or not, he also offers
> hope and that's pretty powerful. And maybe, just maybe, he'll fulfill
> some of that hope. All those running against him were offering was
> same old, same old bullshit without promise of anything new or
> different.

He offers oppression, slavery, and economic ruin that appeals to
the shiftless, indolent, lazy, and mooching classes.

--
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Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:52:15 -0600, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>He will be executed. A 2006 study found that of 21,000 courts martial, only

I hear that John Allen Muhammad is being executed today. A lot of
people don't like the idea of a death penalty and up here in Canada,
we haven't had one for many years. But, I believe some people needed
to be killed. Hassan is certainly one of them.