Ah, the great debate. I haven't cut the hole in my insert yet. If I'm
going to use blade stabilizers, I should put them on first. I haven't put
them on up to now because of the stock steel insert.
Problem is these inserts are expensive to buy and ridiculously difficult to
fabricate, so either way, I'm not going to have a lot of them. I figure
since I almost never tilt the blade, the thing to do is just use the zero
clearance insert for most jobs, and if I ever need to tilt, revert to the
stock insert.
But of course, if I do that, then I will not only have to switch inserts,
but also take the stabilizers back off, then put them back on again.
Annoying.
So I've about talked myself out of using them again.
I use thin kerf blades because I have a relatively anemic 1.5 HP saw. I
don't have stabilizers now, and I wouldn't say I'm having major cut quality
problems. Not quite a glue line rip, but I just have cheapo Freud blades,
and the occasional, minor tooth marks clean up easy enough.
Anybody want to buy my blade stabilizers and end the debate? It's as much a
question of hating to pay for something I decided not to use as it is one
that I perceive a real need for these things.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Silvan wrote:
> Well, for starters, no, I don't have a pattern cutting router bit, or a
> router that's worth using for much of anything, so that's out. :)
You don't need a decent router for this operation. Even are really
crappy router should do the job.
> I made one using a circle cutting jig to do the ends.
Goodness man, use a coping saw! Or fret saw. Or a regular handsaw to
make it kinda-round then rasp/sand to the line. There are dozens of ways
to do this without a bandsaw, and all of them are safer/faster/easier
the using a power tool (outside of a bandsaw).
> I don't have a dado stack, or a flat top ground blade either.
Wouldn't need to be flat top. Really wouldn't make much of a difference
at all.
I really think you are seriously over-complicating this thing, and this
comes from a man who is a master of over-complication (and
over-engineering too, if I get bored...)
> Then the first time I used the damn thing, it lifted, kicked, got mangled by
> the blade en route, and then for the coup de grace, it smashed into my face
> shield and broke along the glue line.
Ahh.. been there, done that:
http://tinyurl.com/49qbc
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_frm/thread/113ee68334dec113/f0489d7e1af70018?q=groin+author:paul+author:kierstead&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fas_q%3Dgroin%26num%3D10%26scoring%3Dr%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as_epq%3D%26as_oq%3D%26as_eq%3D%26as_ugroup%3D%26as_usubject%3D%26as_uauthors%3Dpaul+kierstead%26lr%3D%26as_drrb%3Dq%26as_qdr%3D%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D1981%26as_maxd%3D18%26as_maxm%3D12%26as_maxy%3D2004%26safe%3Doff%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#f0489d7e1af70018>
> Piss on it. Pre-made inserts are a bargain compared to amount of toolage I
> would need to acquire in order to be able to make these things with any
> practical amount of effort.
Ahh, not at all. I am willing to be it would be very makable without
additional toolage. Just think *improvise* instead of *engineer*.
PK
Matthew wrote:
> If you have a pattern cutting router pit (a straight bit with a ball
> bearing) and some plywood of the right thickness you can make lots of
> inserts in short order using the original as a pattern.
>
> I keep a stack handy, and change mine out whenever they get chewed up.
> 1/2 inch ply works great on a old unisaw.
Well, for starters, no, I don't have a pattern cutting router bit, or a
router that's worth using for much of anything, so that's out. :)
Then, after figuring out an alternative way to produce a piece of wood of
the right shape, there's the question of routing off just the right amount
around the rim, in the right spots, to accommodate the stupid ledge cast
into the saw. Without a router that's worth using for much of anything, or
a bandsaw for that matter. (Not a problem on a Delta, I know. If I had
realized what a pain in the ass this was going to be, it would have scored
more points for the Delta I almost bought. I never looked. I stupidly
figured all rounded rectangular inserts were created equal.)
I made one using a circle cutting jig to do the ends. I didn't get it quite
right, so I had to saw it in half. The kerf removed just a little too much
material, but it was still workable. So I glued it back together, with
dowels. Then I set about doing the rim by kerfing around the perimeter of
the thing repeatedly. With an ATB blade that left little pointy kerfs.
Which I then cleaned up with chisels, because I didn't have a rabbet plane.
I don't have a dado stack, or a flat top ground blade either.
So then after all this, I finally fitted it into the slot, and it was too
thick. Either work on the ugly kerfy mess below, or plane off the top. So
I planed off the top until I had planed right through the first layer of
ply and into the glue. Damn the torpedoes, that's why I have lots of
sandpaper, so I kept going until I was about halfway through the next layer
of veneer. Then I shimmed it and fiddled with it until it was level and
smooth and perfect.
I carefully raised the blade through this fruit of many hours, and I cut a
perfect zero clearance kerf at last. All was good with the world, and a
job well done.
Then the first time I used the damn thing, it lifted, kicked, got mangled by
the blade en route, and then for the coup de grace, it smashed into my face
shield and broke along the glue line.
Piss on it. Pre-made inserts are a bargain compared to amount of toolage I
would need to acquire in order to be able to make these things with any
practical amount of effort. I have a rabbet plane now, since this
misadventure, but that wouldn't do much to simplify the rest of the
operation. I concede that this would be easy with a good router and the
right bits, but a router is at the very bottom of my someday list for
various reasons I have beaten to death on this very forum.
Besides, it's Christmas, so I treated myself to a problem solved without
headaches.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Hey Michael,
sounds like a good exercise for a shopbot. Tell you what ... make up a
drawing showing the outline dimensions, desired thickness, and the
associated notch-outs (and their depth) and I'll see what the big blue
router can do ... in my spare time of course! If the insert isn't too thin,
I'd even consider cutting one or two out of some HDPE scraps I have in the
shop.
Rick
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matthew wrote:
>
> > If you have a pattern cutting router pit (a straight bit with a ball
> > bearing) and some plywood of the right thickness you can make lots of
> > inserts in short order using the original as a pattern.
> >
> > I keep a stack handy, and change mine out whenever they get chewed up.
> > 1/2 inch ply works great on a old unisaw.
>
> Well, for starters, no, I don't have a pattern cutting router bit, or a
> router that's worth using for much of anything, so that's out. :)
>
> Then, after figuring out an alternative way to produce a piece of wood of
> the right shape, there's the question of routing off just the right amount
> around the rim, in the right spots, to accommodate the stupid ledge cast
> into the saw. Without a router that's worth using for much of anything,
or
> a bandsaw for that matter. (Not a problem on a Delta, I know. If I had
> realized what a pain in the ass this was going to be, it would have scored
> more points for the Delta I almost bought. I never looked. I stupidly
> figured all rounded rectangular inserts were created equal.)
>
> I made one using a circle cutting jig to do the ends. I didn't get it
quite
> right, so I had to saw it in half. The kerf removed just a little too
much
> material, but it was still workable. So I glued it back together, with
> dowels. Then I set about doing the rim by kerfing around the perimeter of
> the thing repeatedly. With an ATB blade that left little pointy kerfs.
> Which I then cleaned up with chisels, because I didn't have a rabbet
plane.
> I don't have a dado stack, or a flat top ground blade either.
>
> So then after all this, I finally fitted it into the slot, and it was too
> thick. Either work on the ugly kerfy mess below, or plane off the top.
So
> I planed off the top until I had planed right through the first layer of
> ply and into the glue. Damn the torpedoes, that's why I have lots of
> sandpaper, so I kept going until I was about halfway through the next
layer
> of veneer. Then I shimmed it and fiddled with it until it was level and
> smooth and perfect.
>
> I carefully raised the blade through this fruit of many hours, and I cut a
> perfect zero clearance kerf at last. All was good with the world, and a
> job well done.
>
> Then the first time I used the damn thing, it lifted, kicked, got mangled
by
> the blade en route, and then for the coup de grace, it smashed into my
face
> shield and broke along the glue line.
>
> Piss on it. Pre-made inserts are a bargain compared to amount of toolage
I
> would need to acquire in order to be able to make these things with any
> practical amount of effort. I have a rabbet plane now, since this
> misadventure, but that wouldn't do much to simplify the rest of the
> operation. I concede that this would be easy with a good router and the
> right bits, but a router is at the very bottom of my someday list for
> various reasons I have beaten to death on this very forum.
>
> Besides, it's Christmas, so I treated myself to a problem solved without
> headaches.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
If you have a pattern cutting router pit (a straight bit with a ball
bearing) and some plywood of the right thickness you can make lots of
inserts in short order using the original as a pattern.
I keep a stack handy, and change mine out whenever they get chewed up. 1/2
inch ply works great on a old unisaw.
Matthew
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ah, the great debate. I haven't cut the hole in my insert yet. If I'm
> going to use blade stabilizers, I should put them on first. I haven't put
> them on up to now because of the stock steel insert.
>
> Problem is these inserts are expensive to buy and ridiculously difficult
> to
> fabricate, so either way, I'm not going to have a lot of them. I figure
> since I almost never tilt the blade, the thing to do is just use the zero
> clearance insert for most jobs, and if I ever need to tilt, revert to the
> stock insert.
>
> But of course, if I do that, then I will not only have to switch inserts,
> but also take the stabilizers back off, then put them back on again.
> Annoying.
>
> So I've about talked myself out of using them again.
>
> I use thin kerf blades because I have a relatively anemic 1.5 HP saw. I
> don't have stabilizers now, and I wouldn't say I'm having major cut
> quality
> problems. Not quite a glue line rip, but I just have cheapo Freud blades,
> and the occasional, minor tooth marks clean up easy enough.
>
> Anybody want to buy my blade stabilizers and end the debate? It's as much
> a
> question of hating to pay for something I decided not to use as it is one
> that I perceive a real need for these things.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
IMHO, only very little, and only then in certain cases. I do use a thin kerf
with a single (Forrest) stabilizer. With some woods (e.g. cherry) it makes for
a slightly cleaner cut. Similiar may apply with other thick hardwoods. In most
other cases, you can't really see any difference. With some saws, the
stabilizer will reduce the noise level slightly, but that's only reducing the
stress on a weakness in that saw (we all have some weaknesses, right?). A
blade that's not perfectly flat, or one that tends to flex with heat/torque
will be helped. When none of the above apply, there's little to lose. Your saw
alignment and your technique are more important.
GerryG
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 04:36:12 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have never used a stabilizer with thin kerf blades. If I am losing
>something because it, I sure don't know what it is.
>
Hi,
Amazon has a lot of zero-clearance inserts on sale. I don't know what saw
you have, but most of them are $12.99. I think they are UHMW and made by
Might-T-Track (http://ttrackusa.com/), which also has them for $12.99.
Lewis
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matthew wrote:
>
> > If you have a pattern cutting router pit (a straight bit with a ball
> > bearing) and some plywood of the right thickness you can make lots of
> > inserts in short order using the original as a pattern.
> >
> > I keep a stack handy, and change mine out whenever they get chewed up.
> > 1/2 inch ply works great on a old unisaw.
>
> Well, for starters, no, I don't have a pattern cutting router bit, or a
> router that's worth using for much of anything, so that's out. :)
>
> Then, after figuring out an alternative way to produce a piece of wood of
> the right shape, there's the question of routing off just the right amount
> around the rim, in the right spots, to accommodate the stupid ledge cast
> into the saw. Without a router that's worth using for much of anything,
or
> a bandsaw for that matter. (Not a problem on a Delta, I know. If I had
> realized what a pain in the ass this was going to be, it would have scored
> more points for the Delta I almost bought. I never looked. I stupidly
> figured all rounded rectangular inserts were created equal.)
>
> I made one using a circle cutting jig to do the ends. I didn't get it
quite
> right, so I had to saw it in half. The kerf removed just a little too
much
> material, but it was still workable. So I glued it back together, with
> dowels. Then I set about doing the rim by kerfing around the perimeter of
> the thing repeatedly. With an ATB blade that left little pointy kerfs.
> Which I then cleaned up with chisels, because I didn't have a rabbet
plane.
> I don't have a dado stack, or a flat top ground blade either.
>
> So then after all this, I finally fitted it into the slot, and it was too
> thick. Either work on the ugly kerfy mess below, or plane off the top.
So
> I planed off the top until I had planed right through the first layer of
> ply and into the glue. Damn the torpedoes, that's why I have lots of
> sandpaper, so I kept going until I was about halfway through the next
layer
> of veneer. Then I shimmed it and fiddled with it until it was level and
> smooth and perfect.
>
> I carefully raised the blade through this fruit of many hours, and I cut a
> perfect zero clearance kerf at last. All was good with the world, and a
> job well done.
>
> Then the first time I used the damn thing, it lifted, kicked, got mangled
by
> the blade en route, and then for the coup de grace, it smashed into my
face
> shield and broke along the glue line.
>
> Piss on it. Pre-made inserts are a bargain compared to amount of toolage
I
> would need to acquire in order to be able to make these things with any
> practical amount of effort. I have a rabbet plane now, since this
> misadventure, but that wouldn't do much to simplify the rest of the
> operation. I concede that this would be easy with a good router and the
> right bits, but a router is at the very bottom of my someday list for
> various reasons I have beaten to death on this very forum.
>
> Besides, it's Christmas, so I treated myself to a problem solved without
> headaches.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I use thin kerf blades because I have a relatively anemic 1.5 HP saw.
Not a valid reason unless your blade is low quality and or dull. I used
Good regular kerf blade for years on a 1 hp Craftsman. It cut just fine but
a bit slower. I suggest stepping up to a quality combination or general
blade with regular kerf.
A little tip: My tablesaw is no more powerful than yours. No need for thin
kerf blades, regulars work fine.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ah, the great debate. I haven't cut the hole in my insert yet. If I'm
> going to use blade stabilizers, I should put them on first. I haven't put
> them on up to now because of the stock steel insert.
>
> Problem is these inserts are expensive to buy and ridiculously difficult
to
> fabricate, so either way, I'm not going to have a lot of them. I figure
> since I almost never tilt the blade, the thing to do is just use the zero
> clearance insert for most jobs, and if I ever need to tilt, revert to the
> stock insert.
>
> But of course, if I do that, then I will not only have to switch inserts,
> but also take the stabilizers back off, then put them back on again.
> Annoying.
>
> So I've about talked myself out of using them again.
>
> I use thin kerf blades because I have a relatively anemic 1.5 HP saw. I
> don't have stabilizers now, and I wouldn't say I'm having major cut
quality
> problems. Not quite a glue line rip, but I just have cheapo Freud blades,
> and the occasional, minor tooth marks clean up easy enough.
>
> Anybody want to buy my blade stabilizers and end the debate? It's as much
a
> question of hating to pay for something I decided not to use as it is one
> that I perceive a real need for these things.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/