I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
My internet search have span over twenty hours with mediocre results.
In general, I could use some link suggestions on key forums, wood
selection, and tool descriptions. In other words, please share with
the newsgroup one or two sites that you could not live without related
to woodworking.
My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad, TurboCAD,
and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
support and tutorial guides.
What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
(besides paper and pencils).
The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
furniture design; only about populating your building models with
furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
department. I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
These answers will help during the planning stages before even cutting
a piece of wood. It should help me determine what designs are possible
and what tools are necessary for particular design aesthetic. This
woodwork area is completely foreign to me.
Woody 2.0 advanced CADD for the furniture design
http://www.almod-corp.com/
AutoCad
http://www.autocad.com
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:44:54 -0800, Robert Neville
<robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote:
>I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
welcome to the wreck....
>My internet search have span over twenty hours with mediocre results.
>In general, I could use some link suggestions
I posted some links in a zip file on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
> on key forums, wood
>selection, and tool descriptions. In other words, please share with
>the newsgroup one or two sites that you could not live without related
>to woodworking.
well, this one, for instance.......
<G>
>
>My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
>these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad,
the tutorials included with autocad are not bad. however, acad is a
humongous program, full of very odd conventions, patches and
extensions. to use all of it's features well pretty much requires that
you be a full time user, and pretty much requires special training.
that said, I use it, or at least a few of it's functions, and find it
quite useful.
>TurboCAD,
>and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
>specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
>furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
>Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
>drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
>support and tutorial guides.
>
>What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
>list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
>suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
>levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
>(besides paper and pencils).
I draw in autocad and generate cut lists and cost data in excel.
>
>The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
>intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
>point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
>furniture design; only about populating your building models with
>furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
>department.
I would recommend taking a cad class at your local community college.
I would recommend that you also take some woodworking classes.
>I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
>another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
>me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
>
>My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
>Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
>an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
>Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
>easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
there should be some info on fasteners from some of the sites linked
to from the .zip I posted.
>
>These answers will help during the planning stages before even cutting
>a piece of wood. It should help me determine what designs are possible
>and what tools are necessary for particular design aesthetic. This
>woodwork area is completely foreign to me.
>
>
>Woody 2.0 advanced CADD for the furniture design
>http://www.almod-corp.com/
>
>AutoCad
>http://www.autocad.com
Thanks for all the responses. As I may have mentioned, I am just
starting out. Actually, I have no traditional tools, but I am very
versatile on the computer. So CAD design is relevant for my experience
(I know 3D Studio Max). My initial thoughts would be to enlist my
father and build the first few pieces with him. The building notion
came to mind after realizing that he built some furniture with lasting
integrity and design aesthetics over 25 year old ago. One challenge
would be that he resides on a different coast from me. So the design
process would help me determine a solid plan and budget. The furniture
design would have some modular characteristics. Then I would ship
unassembled pieces on palettes (I have shipped more complicated stuff
at work and have some contacts in shipping).
Retail furniture is really crappy or/and outrageous expensive. Design
within reach (http://www.dwr.com/) serves as pricey example. Ikea
(http://www.ikea.com) serve an inferior example. The whole notion may
be ambition; yet as I mentioned, you have to start somewhere. Plus, my
sensibilities gravitate to furniture listed at several thousand
dollars. Thanks for all the support.
I've found that I really like to use visio for designing my projects. I can
set the page to a specific scale, type in the sizes I want for each
"rectangle" or whatever and the pieces go together really quickly. I also
like the attachable sliding dimensions. I build my own cutlists (also in
visio) after figuring out what size wood (width mostly is the limiting
factor) at my hardwood suppliers.
If you have a copy of visio you can take a look at a plan I created for my
current project (an end-table). That way you can see the different objects
I used and how the dimensions work in conjunction with them.
You can find it on my website at:
http://myweb.cableone.net/mjshelton/files/plans/rustic_end_table.zip
I would say learning curve for visio is a 4.
Mike
PS. I always start with pencil and paper in the beginning stages when I'm
trying to figure out what I want it to look like. Then I transfer those
rough drawings to plan form.
"Robert Neville" <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
[snip]
Check out http://www.woodweb.com . They have forums and a knowledge base on
all facets of woodworking, finish and CAD. And that is just part of it.
Preston
"Robert Neville" <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
> My internet search have span over twenty hours with mediocre results.
> In general, I could use some link suggestions on key forums, wood
> selection, and tool descriptions. In other words, please share with
> the newsgroup one or two sites that you could not live without related
> to woodworking.
>
> My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
> these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad, TurboCAD,
> and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
> specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
> furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
> Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
> drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
> support and tutorial guides.
>
> What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
> list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
> suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
> levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
> (besides paper and pencils).
>
> The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
> intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
> point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
> furniture design; only about populating your building models with
> furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
> department. I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
> another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
> me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
>
> My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
> Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
> an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
> Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
> easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
>
> These answers will help during the planning stages before even cutting
> a piece of wood. It should help me determine what designs are possible
> and what tools are necessary for particular design aesthetic. This
> woodwork area is completely foreign to me.
>
>
> Woody 2.0 advanced CADD for the furniture design
> http://www.almod-corp.com/
>
> AutoCad
> http://www.autocad.com
>
"Robert Neville" <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
> these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad, TurboCAD,
> and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
> specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
> furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
> Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
> drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
> support and tutorial guides.
>
> What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
> list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
> suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
> levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
> (besides paper and pencils).
>
> The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
> intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
> point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
> furniture design; only about populating your building models with
> furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
> department. I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
> another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
> me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
<snip>
I'm sure others will address your other concerns, but I just wanted to relay
some of my experience. As a design engineer in a former lifetime, I've used
AutoCAD and ProEngineer. IMHO, on a scale of 1 to 10, the learning curve on
AutoCAD is about a 6, while the learning curve for ProE is about a 9. Many
here will tell you that both are overkill. Since I gained a high level of
competance with AutoCAD as a result of using it on the job, I've never need
to test out some of the "simpler" CAD programs, like TurboCAD, so I can't
comment on their effectiveness or ease of use.
todd
Upscale wrote:
> "Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> What does this have to do with CAD? Sometimes you may want
>> to design a subassembly (like a door) so that it can be
>> trimmed to final size after it is assembled. If you used CAD
>> to lay out the length of your rails, you would be tempted
>> to make the an exact size rather than a shade long.
>
> One of the advantages of working with wood is that if you make
> a mistake, many times it can be fixed by a slight adjustment.
> That usually doesn't work with software since it operates to
> exact commands. Of course, if you want to be literal about it,
> the slight fix in woodworking is analogous to a bug fix or
> service pack in software.
This isn't making sense to me. If I want to include an adjustment
allowance in a CAD design, I do it. Often I don't, because my
tooling produces exactly what I specify (±0.0015" or so); but
sometimes I do (I prefer to make joint tails and pins about 1/64"
proud to be sanded flush after assembly). I have control over how
much space I allow for glue; and can even make joints so
close-fitting that I need to do same-day assembly with a vise or
clamp - because tomorrow they may not go together as easily as
they do today.
Before CAD, I worked things out at my drafting/drawing table.
Designs that I thought of as "keepers" were painstakingly
re-drawn in india ink on vellum and filed (anybody else remember
doing this?) Now I work with a mouse and burn a CD-ROM. If I want
to share a plan, I can e-mail a DXF and the recipient can pull it
up on their screen in seconds - no more trips across town for a
copy and no more mailing tubes. The nature of drawing and
planning haven't really changed, but the amount of time needed to
make the drawing have changed significantly - and it's a lot less
hassle to share and to customize existing designs.
CAD also facilitates discovery and exploration of new ways of
working with wood. I happen to be especially fascinated with
joinery, so I used my CAD package to design and build myself a
44" (expandable to 50") jig with which to experiment (there are
pictures at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/cnc_joinery.html) with all
kinds of wood joint-making. While it can be used for traditional
through and half-blind dovetail joints, it also allow me to
explore other possibilities, and some of them appear to be as
visually interesting as and stronger than traditional dovetails.
There's drawings at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/jigs.html along
with a pair of photos of my very first CAD-designed joint cut
into scrap. Over on a.p.b.w (thread: "Experimental Lap Joints")
there're (CAD) drawings of what started out as a simple lap joint
before modification to provide additional strength to resist
racking and shear forces; and to ensure absolute squareness at
assembly time. I probably could have done all of the above
without CAD; but it would have been /much/ more difficult.
CAD may not be the tool of choice for everyone; but that doesn't
make it not a good tool. I've known people who wouldn't ever make
even a pencil sketch before they started a project. Care to make
a quick guess about the usual quality of their results?
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
C links at http://www.iedu.com/c
Read my lips: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> nyboy10128 wrote:
>
> > You didn't say if you wer just starting out building furniture or
designing
> > furniture. These 2 things are very different. I used to teach CAD a long
> > time ago and have never had the urge to use it. Paper and pencil work
fine.
> > ....
> > You'll find that designing quality custom furniture is more like
designing
> > sculpture rather that desiging a machine even if you're building
> > functional/utilitarian furniture as opposed to "art" furniture.
> > ... The interaction between the peice and the human will
> > ultimately determine if the piece is good or not. This would be hard to
show
> > through on a computer screen.....
>
>
> Yes, so true, and yes.
>
> Want to see CADs influence on design? Drive through a group of houses
built up
> through the mid 70's or so, then drive through a new 'exclusive' or 'high
end'
> housing development. Be prepared to go from something with character to
bland.
>
> That's CADs contribution, straight lines and formula curves, and I don't
care
> how talented a CAD operator happens to be.
You're right. Nothing of any architectural significance has ever been
designed with CAD.
todd
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What does this have to do with CAD? Sometimes you may want to design a
> subassembly (like a door) so that it can be trimmed to final size after it
> is assembled. If you used CAD to lay out the length of your rails, you
would
> be tempted to make the an exact size rather than a shade long.
One of the advantages of working with wood is that if you make a mistake,
many times it can be fixed by a slight adjustment. That usually doesn't work
with software since it operates to exact commands. Of course, if you want to
be literal about it, the slight fix in woodworking is analogous to a bug fix
or service pack in software.
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| As a design engineer in a former lifetime, I've used
| AutoCAD and ProEngineer.
Ditto; as well as Ashlar Vellum, SolidWorks, and NURBS-based software I
helped write for high-end engineering design.
| the learning curve on AutoCAD is about a 6, while the learning
| curve for ProE is about a 9.
That fits with my experience. Vellum and SolidWorks are a little better;
they follow the same paradigm as Pro/E wherein you set up the geometry first
and then go back and put in dimensions and constraints.
| Many here will tell you that both are overkill.
They are. Pro/E is great if you're designing a Mars rover or a battleship,
but highly unnecessary if you're just trying to put together some simple
furniture. The high-end CAD/CAE/CAM tools are intended to manage large,
complex designs that change a lot. They're reasonably good at what they do.
But you have to invest a lot of time and energy to learn to use them before
they will do that for you, and it's questionable whether what they offer
will be useful to you. Even if you know the program, the effort of "getting
the design into the CAD system" is expected to be offset by some advantage
later on, like automatically generating some sort of documentation or
modifying the design without having to re-draw a set of complicated
drawings.
Even though I'm a CAD evangelist in some circles, I do most of my
woodworking project designs on paper, and sometimes not even to scale or
with a straightedge. Much of what I want to accomplish can be done on
engineering paper in a dimensioned, roughly-to-scale drawing. Now that
doesn't work for everyone or in every situation, but it works more often
than it ought to.
--Jay
You didn't say if you wer just starting out building furniture or designing
furniture. These 2 things are very different. I used to teach CAD a long
time ago and have never had the urge to use it. Paper and pencil work fine.
If I was running a production shop it might be different. I think you'll
find most "engineering" CAD programs overkill. I can't comment on some on
the woodworking specific programs since I've never used them.
You'll find that designing quality custom furniture is more like designing
sculpture rather that desiging a machine even if you're building
functional/utilitarian furniture as opposed to "art" furniture. Good
furniture design functions well but it also delights the senses primarily
sight and touch. The interaction between the peice and the human will
ultimately determine if the piece is good or not. This would be hard to show
through on a computer screen. Don't get me wrong CAD has its place but many
designers such as architects, auto designers, and fashion designers start
out with pan and paper.
The best source for technical aspects of wordworking is Fine woodworking.
Taunton Publishers also puts out another mag that deals more with design but
I can't remember what it's called. It's available at Borders and it usually
right next to Fine Woodworking..
"Robert Neville"
> My Internet searches point to AutoCad, TurboCAD,
> and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
> specifically for furniture design.
Hi,
Woody's looks like it's pretty specific to, basically, case style kitchen
cabinets.
I have about 10 years on Pro/E as a development engineer designing smaller,
very high precision assy's with high part counts. I wouldn't recommend it
for furniture for someone who doesn't already know it, but it's what I use.
I love it. I can bang out just about anything in Pro/E a heck of lot faster
than making a messy and mediocre sketch with a pencil. It just takes
practice and time. You'll get very fast with anything you learn well.
Solid modeling rocks for any design work. I would find a solid modeler that
suites your needs and learn it. Everything else is simply mediocre in
comparison and prone to lost productivity due to scrap, rework, design
oversights, and just dumb-staring at your work in the shop, scratching your
head about how it all might fit together. Further, and obviously, the 3D
visualization, the ability to make changes and refinements, the ability to
include every last hole and piece of hardware, and the ability to place your
design into a scaled context is hugely valuable.
For example, I have a 3D model of my entire house, and all the things I have
either built or recently purchased inside it. I did a major remodel to my
basement, so that section of the model is fairly detailed. I have not done
much with my upstairs, so that part of the model is just a few lines and
extrusions representing the exterior walls. My shop is fairly detailed.
All my large equipment was modeled into simple rectangular blocks so I could
see how they would fit in to the space. I designed a workbench, so that has
every last detail down to the tapped hole and routed edge, and sits in the
model as well. You can choose the level of detail that suites the need and
assemble it into a context that also has a level of detail for the need.
My actual paper drawings tend not to be as detailed as what I would do for
my job. I know I have a "working" model in the CAD system where all the
design problems are closed. A very simple drawing of that with a few
dimensions is all I need to actually build it. Don't need much of a
detailed drawing for a rectangular door.
If I didn't know any CAD program, I would personally would consider AutoCad
if I was serious about the hobby and saw bigger uses in the future - who
knows for what. Otherwise, it seems there are a lot of other non-industrial
options like TurboCad (not personally familiar).
Good packages are hard to learn, but seems to me oversimplified packages
might be a waste of time when one day you find they won't do something
important for you or you can't grow as a designer because you're stuck with
some toy design program.
- Nate
Robert,
I write software for a living, when I go home, I'd much rather make sawdust.
I found that thew learning curve for CAD was not worth it for me.... That is
I got most of the design benefit from a pencil and graph paper in alot less
time.
I'm not slamming CAD, just wasn't "fun" for me and this is a hobby.
That said, I am a analytical guy and one of the mental challenges, for me,
of woodworking was to be careful not to think in mathematical absolutes....
Example: you have a 3/4" thick piece of wood that you want to put a 1/4"
goove down the center of the edge. You decide to cut this groove in 2 passes
with a 1/8" kerf table saw blade... You could cut one pass, move the fence
an 1/8" and then cut the other pass. Or you could flip the workpiece around
and cut with the other side against the fence.
Both approaches are mathematically equvalent, if you're perfect. But, of
course no one is. The second approach is *Guaranteed* to center the groove
on the edge..... It is also *guaranteed* to DOUBLE your error in positioning
the fence, resulting in a doublely wide or narrow groove.
My point is that one of the skills to learn is: when to be absolutely anal
about a particular setup/cut because it will be really visible or propogate
in a nasty way, or when not to care because it doesn't matter. It helps to
know the difference.
What does this have to do with CAD? Sometimes you may want to design a
subassembly (like a door) so that it can be trimmed to final size after it
is assembled. If you used CAD to lay out the length of your rails, you would
be tempted to make the an exact size rather than a shade long.
The best way to learn this stuff is to go out an make sawdust (and
mistakes).
Once again, I'm not slamming CAD; it's a legitimate tool... just don't
front-load the design process too much.
Get out there and make sawdust!
BTW your question is interesting in that most newbies show up and ask "What
{hardware} tool should I buy?".
-Steve
"Robert Neville" <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the responses. As I may have mentioned, I am just
> starting out. Actually, I have no traditional tools, but I am very
> versatile on the computer. So CAD design is relevant for my experience
> (I know 3D Studio Max). My initial thoughts would be to enlist my
> father and build the first few pieces with him. The building notion
> came to mind after realizing that he built some furniture with lasting
> integrity and design aesthetics over 25 year old ago. One challenge
> would be that he resides on a different coast from me. So the design
> process would help me determine a solid plan and budget. The furniture
> design would have some modular characteristics. Then I would ship
> unassembled pieces on palettes (I have shipped more complicated stuff
> at work and have some contacts in shipping).
>
> Retail furniture is really crappy or/and outrageous expensive. Design
> within reach (http://www.dwr.com/) serves as pricey example. Ikea
> (http://www.ikea.com) serve an inferior example. The whole notion may
> be ambition; yet as I mentioned, you have to start somewhere. Plus, my
> sensibilities gravitate to furniture listed at several thousand
> dollars. Thanks for all the support.
>
"Stephen M"
> Sometimes you may want to design a
> subassembly (like a door) so that it can be trimmed to final size after it
> is assembled.
This is what is called a machined assembly. A good designer knows this and
can specify it. Even if it is not be specified, a craftsman can end up
there any way he chooses.
The prints do not tell one how to build something. They just say what it's
supposed to look like when it's done.
> If you used CAD to lay out the length of your rails, you would
> be tempted to make the an exact size rather than a shade long.
The only thing I hear you saying is that you need to know how to build it
before you can do a good job designing it. You are correct, but this should
be obvious to most.
Time spent at the front end is time more efficiently spent. You have to
make every decision, every measurement, and every part fit into the assembly
at some point. Might as well close the design up front to help eliminate
scrap and wasted time. This is such a good idea, it is how most of the
things in this world get designed and built.
I admire a craftsman who can visualize and execute without much in the way
of plans. I'm not that person nor do I strive to be. I also would guess
that person has made a lot of firewood in their day to get where they are.
If I might give you some personal and jovial BS - I think you may have
arrived at your way of doing things because of your "recompile all" button
at work. My 3-6 week lead time for design turns really sucks compared to
watching our code guys wait 15-60 minutes for a recompile.
- Nate
"Nate B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Stephen M"
>
> > Sometimes you may want to design a
> > subassembly (like a door) so that it can be trimmed to final size after
it
> > is assembled.
>
> This is what is called a machined assembly. A good designer knows this
and
> can specify it. Even if it is not be specified, a craftsman can end up
> there any way he chooses.
>
> The prints do not tell one how to build something. They just say what
it's
> supposed to look like when it's done.
>
> > If you used CAD to lay out the length of your rails, you would
> > be tempted to make the an exact size rather than a shade long.
>
> The only thing I hear you saying is that you need to know how to build it
> before you can do a good job designing it. You are correct, but this
should
> be obvious to most.
Well said... (certainly more succinctly that I was able to express). This
*is* what I was driving at. It was my impression that the OP
was a newbie and had not yet dicovered some of the subtlties of execution.
One of the things the OP asked for was "tool descriptions" which I read to
mean: "what does a jointer do?"
If I may lightly paraphrase you: "learn to build before you learn to
design".
-Steve
They way I have always approached tool buying is to buy the tools I
need for a project. If the project requires a table saw, buy a table
saw. If it requires a biscuit joiner, buy the joiner when you need it
instead of just going out and buying a bunch of tools. I never had a
joiner or thickness planer until I decided to build mission style
furniture for our family room. The cost of the tools is just part of
the cost of project. I could never convince my wife I actually needed
these tools until she asked me to build the furniture. I now have
these tools and should have them for the rest of my wood working
career.
Brian.....
Bridger <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:44:54 -0800, Robert Neville
> <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
>
>
> welcome to the wreck....
>
>
>
>
>
> >My internet search have span over twenty hours with mediocre results.
> >In general, I could use some link suggestions
>
>
> I posted some links in a zip file on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > on key forums, wood
> >selection, and tool descriptions. In other words, please share with
> >the newsgroup one or two sites that you could not live without related
> >to woodworking.
>
>
> well, this one, for instance.......
> <G>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
> >these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad,
>
> the tutorials included with autocad are not bad. however, acad is a
> humongous program, full of very odd conventions, patches and
> extensions. to use all of it's features well pretty much requires that
> you be a full time user, and pretty much requires special training.
> that said, I use it, or at least a few of it's functions, and find it
> quite useful.
>
>
>
>
>
> >TurboCAD,
> >and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
> >specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
> >furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
> >Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
> >drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
> >support and tutorial guides.
> >
> >What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
> >list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
> >suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
> >levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
> >(besides paper and pencils).
>
> I draw in autocad and generate cut lists and cost data in excel.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
> >intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
> >point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
> >furniture design; only about populating your building models with
> >furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
> >department.
>
> I would recommend taking a cad class at your local community college.
> I would recommend that you also take some woodworking classes.
>
>
>
>
> >I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
> >another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
> >me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
> >
> >My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
> >Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
> >an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
> >Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
> >easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
>
>
> there should be some info on fasteners from some of the sites linked
> to from the .zip I posted.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >These answers will help during the planning stages before even cutting
> >a piece of wood. It should help me determine what designs are possible
> >and what tools are necessary for particular design aesthetic. This
> >woodwork area is completely foreign to me.
> >
> >
> >Woody 2.0 advanced CADD for the furniture design
> >http://www.almod-corp.com/
> >
> >AutoCad
> >http://www.autocad.com
nyboy10128 wrote:
> You didn't say if you wer just starting out building furniture or designing
> furniture. These 2 things are very different. I used to teach CAD a long
> time ago and have never had the urge to use it. Paper and pencil work fine.
> ....
> You'll find that designing quality custom furniture is more like designing
> sculpture rather that desiging a machine even if you're building
> functional/utilitarian furniture as opposed to "art" furniture.
> ... The interaction between the peice and the human will
> ultimately determine if the piece is good or not. This would be hard to show
> through on a computer screen.....
Yes, so true, and yes.
Want to see CADs influence on design? Drive through a group of houses built up
through the mid 70's or so, then drive through a new 'exclusive' or 'high end'
housing development. Be prepared to go from something with character to bland.
That's CADs contribution, straight lines and formula curves, and I don't care
how talented a CAD operator happens to be.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
todd wrote:
>
>
> You're right. Nothing of any architectural significance has ever been
> designed with CAD.
>
I would take that a step further and state nothing of aesthetic significance has
been designed with CAD.
It's cheaper to draw with a Box. It's cheaper to manufacture from the data file
created in that box. This makes the bean counters happy so they make the
directive to the marketers to sell straight lines and formula curves to the
public. Eventually the public accepts the new look and what would have been
hideous in the past is now visually pleasing, even desirable.
CAD is removing us from organic design, nature abhors straight lines and perfect
curves.
I look at Woman and wonder what She would look like if created with CAD. She
would be much less interesting.
The irony is I have CAD and I use it. Thing is, I know when to stop using it.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
Mark wrote:
> I would take that a step further and state nothing of
> aesthetic significance has been designed with CAD.
Most CAD users aren't artists. The good CAD packages that I've
seen all provide the ability to incorporate whatever curve the
user wants (generally using Bessier functions and digital pad
interfaces for freehand entry).
Most of the artists I've known aren't CAD users; and actively
resist any encouragement to acquire the skills.
I know a small number of artists who have climbed the learning
curve. For them, CAD is just another (powerful) tool they use to
express themselves.
There are sculptors who work only with hand tools. There are also
sculptors who also work with pneumatic tools. I've watched both
and it doesn't seem to be the tool that determines the beauty (or
ugliness) of the sculpture.
Ditto for woodworkers.
> It's cheaper to draw with a Box. It's cheaper to manufacture
> from the data file created in that box. This makes the bean
> counters happy so they make the directive to the marketers to
> sell straight lines and formula curves to the public.
> Eventually the public accepts the new look and what would have
> been hideous in the past is now visually pleasing, even
> desirable.
Ah! Now we're narrowing our vision to consideration only of
manufactured products. That's quite a bit of narrowing, BTW.
Manufacturing management (not artists) determine the nature of
the products produced and the design methodology. Yes, the bean
counters have a role, too. Generally, management chooses to
produce well-engineered products that aren't /too/ ugly.
I've never seen a recruiting ad targeted toward engineers with
artistic talent - even though it stands to reason that there must
be at least a few out there somewhere. Have you seen such ads?
> CAD is removing us from organic design, nature abhors straight
> lines and perfect curves.
Hmm. We might have a difference of opinion here as regards
perfect curves! It seems to me that everything we recognize as a
perfect curve comes from the natural world.
> I look at Woman and wonder what She would look like if created
> with CAD. She would be much less interesting.
Bzzzt! Warning! This may be a religious declaration as well as a
statement of opinion. My loaded question is: "How do you know
that?" I'll be a troublemaker and suggest that possibly she is a
CAD creation (for some notion of computer and a special user who
may or may not find it amusing to invent and use tools).
> The irony is I have CAD and I use it. Thing is, I know when to
> stop using it.
As do I. I stop using it when I've reached the limits of my
abilities to translate my imaginings to something the software is
designed to understand. It's never occurred to me to blame that
on the CAD software, though.
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
C links at http://www.iedu.com/c
Read my lips: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:49:04 GMT, "Preston Andreas"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Check out http://www.woodweb.com . They have forums and a knowledge base on
>all facets of woodworking, finish and CAD. And that is just part of it.
>
Good link. I already had this one, yet you confirmed that it's a valid
resource.
Wander around www.wwhardware.com
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:44:54 -0800, Robert Neville
<robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote:
>My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
>Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
>an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
>Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
>easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
As the Guys have said AutoCAD is overkill (although I love messing with the
program) TurboCAD is cheaper and works approximately the same. Its sort of
like Getting the whole Kit (stainless steel instruments, vellum, drafting
machine) or just getting a scale and a technical pencil and a piece of paper
and a triangle. (actually that is not a perfect analogy because TCAD is
capability of everything too)
--
"Robert Neville" <robert_neville@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have been researching the possibility of designing my own furniture.
> My internet search have span over twenty hours with mediocre results.
> In general, I could use some link suggestions on key forums, wood
> selection, and tool descriptions. In other words, please share with
> the newsgroup one or two sites that you could not live without related
> to woodworking.
>
> My primary question deals with CAD programs and tutorials associated
> these applications. My Internet searches point to AutoCad, TurboCAD,
> and Pro-engineer as the typical players. I also found Woody's 2.0
> specifically for furniture design. Woody's has many modules for
> furniture design like cut list, cost-tabulator, and fastener database.
> Has anybody use Woody's for their wood work projects? The main
> drawback with Woody's as a specialty product may be less community
> support and tutorial guides.
>
> What furniture design modules exist for other CAD programs (like cut
> list or cost tabulators)? Let me know if you have any other
> suggestions in the CAD area. Tons of CAD programs exist with different
> levels of ease. I am just wondering what you guys use themselves
> (besides paper and pencils).
>
> The learning curve associated with high-end CAD application does not
> intimidated me, yet I could use some good tutorials for a starting
> point. AutoCAD tutorial searches did not return anything about
> furniture design; only about populating your building models with
> furniture. Please let me know if you have more insight in the CAD
> department. I would hate to learn one program to discard it for
> another preferable application. Basically, a CAD program would allow
> me to play with a few different designs and budget the project.
>
> My secondary question relates to fasteners used in newer furniture.
> Generally, these fasteners are used in lesser quality furniture. Does
> an online guide and vendor exist for these fasteners (not the Home
> Depot variety either)? I have no idea what they are called, so can not
> easily search for them. A pros and cons guide would help me as well.
>
> These answers will help during the planning stages before even cutting
> a piece of wood. It should help me determine what designs are possible
> and what tools are necessary for particular design aesthetic. This
> woodwork area is completely foreign to me.
>
>
> Woody 2.0 advanced CADD for the furniture design
> http://www.almod-corp.com/
>
> AutoCad
> http://www.autocad.com
>