Kreg pocket holes not drilling cleanly

In article <[email protected]>, Gordon Shumway
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Are you drilling the complete hole in one pass? Are you going part
> way in and then pulling the bit back out to clear the debris and then
> continuing the drilling? If you are drilling the complete hole in one
> pass without clearing the debris that could be part of the problem...
> especially in hard wood.

That's my experience. You do need to retract and clear.

--
Woodworking and more at <http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

In article <[email protected]>, -MIKE-
<[email protected]> wrote:

> If you set up a shop-vac on this thing, it'll take care of that.
> If anyone is looking to get into pocket hole joinery, spend the extra
> bucks on the dust collection attachments or rig something up at home.
> It makes all the difference in the world.

I have the attachment, but in my experience it's ineffective, the hose
attachment is badly positioned, and honestly, I don't need the
additional noise. A quick swoosh with a bench brush works faster,
cleaner, and quieter.

In article
<[email protected]>,
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ah. I should have made clear that I have the Kreg Jr. K3 jig, not the
> larger system. I do have their face clamp, which keeps it nice and
> steady.

Make sure the bit is spinning FAST.

If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a little neater.

Good form would dictate that pocket holes are only on the back side of face frames and other non-visible locations of cabinets. They do sell the plugs but that is kind of cheesy and you should just use a better joint.

I did use them on to connect the upper bookshelf sides, down to the counter top of lower cabs on some built-ins. I considered plugs but just ended up covering them with some thin trim that looks like some perfectly natural interior base molding.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:31:17 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/25/12 12:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
>>>>> before it affects performance.
>>>>
>>>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something like the
>>>> square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always keep them in the
>>>> house during the summer. My garage (and attic where most of my tools are) can
>>>> *easily* get to 120F in the summer. It'll be much nicer in the basement of
>>>> the new place. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case, like
>>> you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery. I've
>>> been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video equipment for
>>> 30 years and I've been through most of the evolution and had a lot of
>>> experience with every generation/technology. I'll take LiIon over any of
>>> them, up until this point. Whatever is down the creek will probably be
>>> better.
>>
>> For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.
>>
>
>Not for me. NiCad was better than the previous generation of batteries,
>but just barely. NiCads couldn't go away fast enough in my book. I can't
>think of a single use for which I would prefer NiCad batteries... except
>maybe ballast under my buffing wheel. :-)

NiCd works better for appliances that need a very large current (NiCd has a
low series resistance and won't go bang). NiCd is probably better for
cordless saws, for this reason. Drills are certainly within the scope of
LiIon, though.

NiCds aren't heavy enough for ballast. You need lead-acid batteries, for that
application. ;-)

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:44:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/25/12 7:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> NiCds aren't heavy enough for ballast. You need lead-acid batteries, for that
>> application. ;-)
>>
>
>Lead Acid is one battery that is the exception to my rule that the next
>gen is always better.... sort of.....
>
>At my last "real" job, I managed and maintained all the audio/video
>production gear for a college that taught production. The NiCad batts we
>had for video cameras wore out so fast and were so expensive that I had
>to come up with a better solution for the students in the field video
>prod classes.
>
>After researching, I decided that emergency lighting batteries would
>work great. Video cameras run on 12 volts DC, in an operating range
>around 10.5-14 volts. These lead acid "brick" batteries would charge up
>to 14 volts, had an incredibly high amp-hour capacity for the current
>draw of the cameras, and wouldn't develop a "memory."

They're terrible if you discharge them completely, though. Lead-acid
batteries have to be cared for like a newborn baby. They're a natural for car
starters or emergency lighting, for pretty much everything else they're sub
optimum. I did design some SLACs into a mainframe, a little over 20 years
ago (stored crypto keys with power off) but they weren't without problems.
LiIon would have been a much better solution today.

The "memory" problem isn't. It hasn't been an issue with NiCds for at *least*
thirty years, probably forty. Over-charging or reverse-charging (during
discharge) is what kills NiCds.

>I wired two of these "bricks" together in small plastic tool boxes. They
>would power the cameras for hours at a time and I used simple 12v power
>supplies to charge them. I recall that it cost me less to make two of
>these double battery tool boxes for less than a single camera battery.
>They provided about 20x the power of the camera batts and lasted for years.

As long as they're constantly charged and never fully discharged, lead-acid
batteries will last a long time. A couple of complete discharges and they're
dead. It's rather the opposite of NiCds (there aren't any applications where
they can be interchanged - one or the other is sub-optimum).

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>
>
>How freakin hot is your shop?
>I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
>before it affects performance.

Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something like the
square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always keep them in the
house during the summer. My garage (and attic where most of my tools are) can
*easily* get to 120F in the summer. It'll be much nicer in the basement of
the new place. ;-)

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:44:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/25/12 7:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> NiCds aren't heavy enough for ballast. You need lead-acid batteries, for that
>> application. ;-)
>>
>
>Lead Acid is one battery that is the exception to my rule that the next
>gen is always better.... sort of.....
>
>At my last "real" job, I managed and maintained all the audio/video
>production gear for a college that taught production. The NiCad batts we
>had for video cameras wore out so fast and were so expensive that I had
>to come up with a better solution for the students in the field video
>prod classes.
>
>After researching, I decided that emergency lighting batteries would
>work great. Video cameras run on 12 volts DC, in an operating range
>around 10.5-14 volts. These lead acid "brick" batteries would charge up
>to 14 volts, had an incredibly high amp-hour capacity for the current
>draw of the cameras, and wouldn't develop a "memory."
>
>I wired two of these "bricks" together in small plastic tool boxes. They
>would power the cameras for hours at a time and I used simple 12v power
>supplies to charge them. I recall that it cost me less to make two of
>these double battery tool boxes for less than a single camera battery.
>They provided about 20x the power of the camera batts and lasted for years.

Until they short out agains't a Field production audio mixer, this was
a fix I participated in when working at Shure Brothers many years ago.

The mixer was general toasted.

Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a
> couple of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
> especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the
> left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side that the drill bit
> cutting edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side that the
> bit edge would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's a
> photo, which is not terribly detailed:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostrea
> m/
>
> I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo.
> They end up with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left
> edge. If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them
> to be a little neater.
>
> These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly
> plaster hole left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air
> conditioner in my Mom's house. In this case, the wood is maple. But it
> did the same sort of thing in pine. I think I used a cordless drill
> this time, but used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with similar
> results on the last project.
>
> I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?

I'm a novice to the Kreg jig as well, and just figured it was the
"nature of the beast." The dozen and a half I drilled for my last
project cleaned up really nicely with some 220 grit paper in a palm
sander.

Maybe a few of the tricks that work for other things would help here.
Tape, perhaps? Or maybe a thin piece of wood placed over the place
where you're drilling so the ragged edge occurs on the piece rather than
the work piece?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Han <[email protected]> wrote in news:XnsA0B6A123F634Cikkezelf@
207.246.207.163:

>
> I have a Kreg jig setup from some 10 years ago or so. It came without a
> dust port. Does the dustport fit on that? Because the dust is one of
> the few drawbacks to the jig's proper functioning.
>

Looking at the one that came with mine, it's a square piece with a moulding
for a round hose. I haven't tried it, but it looks to fit on the waste
side of the jig and simply hold the hose in place while it sucks the dust
away.

You could probably make one out of wood with little difficulty.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Aug 21, 1:57=A0pm, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1. Use a good 3/8 "corded" drill, battery drills just don't spin
> =A0 =A0 up fast enough for a clean hole.
> 2. Have a good sharp bit.
> 3. Cross grain will cause a little fuzzy edges at times.
> 4. Use the dust collector if your model supports it.
>
> Your picture appears to be white pine which is tough to get
> a good sharp edge on.

It's maple, actually. But I had similar results in pine.

On 8/21/2012 8:17 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 17:19:09 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Karl, didn't you say you were going to buy a pair of the pock-it hole
> clamps? Have you received them and used them yet? I was wondering how
> useful they are?
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675&site=ROCKLER
>

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/rec.woodworking/sTUwNubJ8R4

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Aug 20, 5:24=A0pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:24:19 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple
> >of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
> >especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the
> >left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side that the drill bit cutting
> >edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side that the bit edge
> >would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's a photo, which
> >is not terribly detailed:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostr...
>
> >I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo.
> >They end up with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left edge.
> >If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a
> >little neater.
>
> >These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly
> >plaster hole left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air conditioner
> >in my Mom's house. In this case, the wood is maple. But it did the same
> >sort of thing in pine. I think I used a cordless drill this time, but
> >used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with similar results on the last
> >project.
>
> >I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?
>
> Are you drilling the complete hole in one pass? =A0Are you going part
> way in and then pulling the bit back out to clear the debris and then
> continuing the drilling?

That's how I do it. It doesn't really seem possible to do it in one
pass.

If you are drilling the complete hole in one
> pass without clearing the debris that could be part of the problem...
> especially in hard wood.
>
> Are you sure your fixture is securely clamped to the work? =A0If not
> that could be contributing to the problem too.

Seems secure. My tendency is to err on the side of overtightening
things.
>
> If it isn't either one of those situations it's gotta be gremlins.

On 8/21/2012 8:31 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, -MIKE-
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you set up a shop-vac on this thing, it'll take care of that.
>> If anyone is looking to get into pocket hole joinery, spend the extra
>> bucks on the dust collection attachments or rig something up at home.
>> It makes all the difference in the world.
>
> I have the attachment, but in my experience it's ineffective, the hose
> attachment is badly positioned, and honestly, I don't need the
> additional noise. A quick swoosh with a bench brush works faster,
> cleaner, and quieter.
>

I have to say that with my Kreg PH jig hooked up to the Festool vac
hardly a spec of dust gets free. You must be doing something wrong.

On 8/21/2012 2:50 PM, Han wrote:
> I have a Kreg jig setup from some 10 years ago or so. It came without a
> dust port. Does the dustport fit on that? Because the dust is one of
> the few drawbacks to the jig's proper functioning.

Actually, IIRC, I gave my old Kreg Jig setup from that era to someone on
the wRec ... don't even recall who I shipped it to, or if they're still
posting?

The old one had the clamp on the opposite side from the user, the one I
have now has the clamp handle on the user side:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5779253468866373122

I have no idea which model it is, or if it has been superseded.

I used the old one with a regular shop vac and don't recall the dust
collection being all the notable.

With the one pictured in the link above, and the Festool dust extractor,
the dust collection can only be described as awesome.

I attribute most of that, rightly or wrongly, to the Festool's highly
efficient suckage ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 8/21/2012 9:42 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> t must be a bad design, because when I simply hold my vac against the
> ports of the jig, it clears out most of the muck from the bit/hole....
> at least enough to keep me from having to re-plunge the bit several
> times to make a clean hole.

I've drilled literally thousands of pocket holes in cabinet face frames
the past ten plus years, and since I started using my Festool CT22E dust
extractor attached to the Kreg Jig Master system dust port a few of
years back, I have not seen a speck of drill sawdust when drilling
pocket screw holes ... I mean 99.99 non-existent.

BTW, although I have a spare drill bit, it remains unused. IOW, I've
drilled all those holes with the same drill bit I got with my initial
Kreg jig about 2000, and it still cuts as cleanly as it did on day one.

As far as the original post, and once again for the record, the grain of
the wood is IME biggest part of the OP's issue with tear out on the exit
side of the cutting edge of the bit ...usually most prominent when
drilling into any flat sawn faces at an angle.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

It appears that this is happening on the holes that go against the grain.
This would indicate either a loose fit of the bit to the guide hole, a dull
bit, or the wrong type of bit. Every tool has limitations. It seems that the
holes that are drilled with the grain are very clean. ????
Just my two cents.

On 8/20/2012 2:24 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

> These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly
> plaster hole left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air conditioner
> in my Mom's house. In this case, the wood is maple. But it did the same
> sort of thing in pine. I think I used a cordless drill this time, but
> used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with similar results on the last
> project.

The grain of the wood is most likely what is causing the problem ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 8/21/2012 9:42 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> t must be a bad design, because when I simply hold my vac against the
>> ports of the jig, it clears out most of the muck from the
>> bit/hole.... at least enough to keep me from having to re-plunge the
>> bit several times to make a clean hole.
>
> I've drilled literally thousands of pocket holes in cabinet face
> frames the past ten plus years, and since I started using my Festool
> CT22E dust extractor attached to the Kreg Jig Master system dust port
> a few of years back, I have not seen a speck of drill sawdust when
> drilling pocket screw holes ... I mean 99.99 non-existent.
>
> BTW, although I have a spare drill bit, it remains unused. IOW, I've
> drilled all those holes with the same drill bit I got with my initial
> Kreg jig about 2000, and it still cuts as cleanly as it did on day
> one.
>
> As far as the original post, and once again for the record, the grain
> of the wood is IME biggest part of the OP's issue with tear out on the
> exit side of the cutting edge of the bit ...usually most prominent
> when drilling into any flat sawn faces at an angle.

I have a Kreg jig setup from some 10 years ago or so. It came without a
dust port. Does the dustport fit on that? Because the dust is one of
the few drawbacks to the jig's proper functioning.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Han <[email protected]> wrote in news:XnsA0B6A123F634Cikkezelf@
> 207.246.207.163:
>
>>
>> I have a Kreg jig setup from some 10 years ago or so. It came
>> without a dust port. Does the dustport fit on that? Because the
>> dust is one of the few drawbacks to the jig's proper functioning.
>>
>
> Looking at the one that came with mine, it's a square piece with a
> moulding for a round hose. I haven't tried it, but it looks to fit on
> the waste side of the jig and simply hold the hose in place while it
> sucks the dust away.
>
> You could probably make one out of wood with little difficulty.
>
> Puckdropper

OK, I'll look into it soonish. I've been sick with whooping cough,
sapping my energies at anything more tiring than typing, plus I have 2
projects going and I need to reorganize my workshop, but right after that
...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 8/21/2012 2:50 PM, Han wrote:
>> I have a Kreg jig setup from some 10 years ago or so. It came
>> without a dust port. Does the dustport fit on that? Because the
>> dust is one of the few drawbacks to the jig's proper functioning.
>
> Actually, IIRC, I gave my old Kreg Jig setup from that era to someone
> on the wRec ... don't even recall who I shipped it to, or if they're
> still posting?
>
> The old one had the clamp on the opposite side from the user, the one
> I have now has the clamp handle on the user side:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixture
> sMethods#5779253468866373122
>
> I have no idea which model it is, or if it has been superseded.
>
> I used the old one with a regular shop vac and don't recall the dust
> collection being all the notable.
>
> With the one pictured in the link above, and the Festool dust
> extractor, the dust collection can only be described as awesome.
>
> I attribute most of that, rightly or wrongly, to the Festool's highly
> efficient suckage ...
>
Thanks, Karl!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 8/25/12 12:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120
>>>>> degrees before it affects performance.
>>>>
>>>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something
>>>> like the square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always
>>>> keep them in the house during the summer. My garage (and attic
>>>> where most of my tools are) can *easily* get to 120F in the summer.
>>>> It'll be much nicer in the basement of the new place. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case,
>>> like you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery.
>>> I've been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video
>>> equipment for 30 years and I've been through most of the evolution
>>> and had a lot of experience with every generation/technology. I'll
>>> take LiIon over any of them, up until this point. Whatever is down
>>> the creek will probably be better.
>>
>> For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.
>>
>
> Not for me. NiCad was better than the previous generation of
> batteries, but just barely. NiCads couldn't go away fast enough in my
> book. I can't think of a single use for which I would prefer NiCad
> batteries... except maybe ballast under my buffing wheel. :-)

Sometimes it is the execution of the technology. I had a NiCad 9.6V
battery-driven Sears (yeah, I know) drill/driver (973.274960) that
couldn't hold a charge. I had the 2 sets of batteries rebuilt by
Primecell in March '11, and now it holds charge really fine. The old
charger works with them. Not an especially fast high powered drill, but
now the batteries work fine. It was cheaper (but maybe not that much)
than buying a new drill.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 25 Aug 2012 17:58:56 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 8/25/12 12:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE-
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>>>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120
>>>>>>> degrees before it affects performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something
>>>>>> like the square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always
>>>>>> keep them in the house during the summer. My garage (and attic
>>>>>> where most of my tools are) can *easily* get to 120F in the
>>>>>> summer.
>>>>>> It'll be much nicer in the basement of the new place. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case,
>>>>> like you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any
>>>>> battery. I've been working with battery powered tools, and
>>>>> audio/video equipment for 30 years and I've been through most of
>>>>> the evolution and had a lot of experience with every
>>>>> generation/technology. I'll take LiIon over any of them, up until
>>>>> this point. Whatever is down the creek will probably be better.
>>>>
>>>> For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not for me. NiCad was better than the previous generation of
>>> batteries, but just barely. NiCads couldn't go away fast enough in
>>> my book. I can't think of a single use for which I would prefer
>>> NiCad batteries... except maybe ballast under my buffing wheel. :-)
>>
>>Sometimes it is the execution of the technology. I had a NiCad 9.6V
>>battery-driven Sears (yeah, I know) drill/driver (973.274960) that
>>couldn't hold a charge. I had the 2 sets of batteries rebuilt by
>>Primecell in March '11, and now it holds charge really fine. The old
>>charger works with them. Not an especially fast high powered drill,
>>but now the batteries work fine. It was cheaper (but maybe not that
>>much) than buying a new drill.
>
> Lookign at what they want for rebuilds now, I don't think they are
> cheaper than buying new tools. :-(

I believe this was March 2010. I now have superior batteries.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 17:19:09 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

Karl, didn't you say you were going to buy a pair of the pock-it hole
clamps? Have you received them and used them yet? I was wondering how
useful they are?
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675&site=ROCKLER

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:24:19 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple
>of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
>especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the
>left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side that the drill bit cutting
>edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side that the bit edge
>would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's a photo, which
>is not terribly detailed:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostream/
>
>I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo.
>They end up with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left edge.
>If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a
>little neater.
>
>These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly
>plaster hole left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air conditioner
>in my Mom's house. In this case, the wood is maple. But it did the same
>sort of thing in pine. I think I used a cordless drill this time, but
>used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with similar results on the last
>project.
>
>I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?

Are you drilling the complete hole in one pass? Are you going part
way in and then pulling the bit back out to clear the debris and then
continuing the drilling? If you are drilling the complete hole in one
pass without clearing the debris that could be part of the problem...
especially in hard wood.

Are you sure your fixture is securely clamped to the work? If not
that could be contributing to the problem too.

If it isn't either one of those situations it's gotta be gremlins.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
>>> before it affects performance.
>>
>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something like the
>> square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always keep them in the
>> house during the summer. My garage (and attic where most of my tools are) can
>> *easily* get to 120F in the summer. It'll be much nicer in the basement of
>> the new place. ;-)
>>
>
>I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case, like
>you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery. I've
>been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video equipment for
>30 years and I've been through most of the evolution and had a lot of
>experience with every generation/technology. I'll take LiIon over any of
>them, up until this point. Whatever is down the creek will probably be
>better.

For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.

>Every time a newer battery chemistry comes out, there are naysayers and
>they complain about this, that, and the other, when in fact, the new
>stuff is always better, almost without exception.

When it first appears, not so much. LiIon (which isn't just one "technology")
certainly had its teething pains. NiMH looked like a sure winner but today
its only real advantage is its "greeness" (nickel is about as benign as you
can get).

On Aug 21, 1:18=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/21/12 12:00 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Gordon Shumway
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Are you drilling the complete hole in one pass? =A0Are you going part
> >> way in and then pulling the bit back out to clear the debris and then
> >> continuing the drilling? =A0If you are drilling the complete hole in o=
ne
> >> pass without clearing the debris that could be part of the problem...
> >> especially in hard wood.
>
> > That's my experience. You do need to retract and clear.
>
> If you set up a shop-vac on this thing, it'll take care of that.
> If anyone is looking to get into pocket hole joinery, spend the extra
> bucks on the dust collection attachments or rig something up at home.
> It makes all the difference in the world.

Ah. I should have made clear that I have the Kreg Jr. K3 jig, not the
larger system. I do have their face clamp, which keeps it nice and
steady.

"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple of small
> utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes, especially in solid wood,
> don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side
> that the drill bit cutting edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side
> that the bit edge would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's a photo,
> which is not terribly detailed:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostream/
>
> I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo. They end up
> with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left edge. If I ever use pocket
> hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a little neater.
>
> These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly plaster hole
> left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air conditioner in my Mom's house. In
> this case, the wood is maple. But it did the same sort of thing in pine. I think I
> used a cordless drill this time, but used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with
> similar results on the last project.
>
> I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?

That happens to me occasionally too. The jig is supposed to fit
tightly to the wood and provide a backer to minimize this. However,
when I get careless and leave a bit of sawdust between the jig & the
wood I get what you describe. If you don't clamp the jig tightly enough
or if the jig is worn you would likely get it too.
Art

On 8/20/2012 4:22 PM, Artemus wrote:
> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple of small
>> utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes, especially in solid wood,
>> don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side
>> that the drill bit cutting edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side
>> that the bit edge would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's a photo,
>> which is not terribly detailed:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostream/
>>
>> I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo. They end up
>> with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left edge. If I ever use pocket
>> hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a little neater.
>>
>> These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly plaster hole
>> left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air conditioner in my Mom's house. In
>> this case, the wood is maple. But it did the same sort of thing in pine. I think I
>> used a cordless drill this time, but used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with
>> similar results on the last project.
>>
>> I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?
>
> That happens to me occasionally too. The jig is supposed to fit
> tightly to the wood and provide a backer to minimize this. However,
> when I get careless and leave a bit of sawdust between the jig & the
> wood I get what you describe. If you don't clamp the jig tightly enough
> or if the jig is worn you would likely get it too.
> Art
>
>
Sawdust, huh? That could be. I use their "vise-grip" style clamp, and I
clamp it pretty hard, but I may not blow out the dust completely,
especially between adjacent holes. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

On 8/20/12 5:48 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a little neater.
>
> Good form would dictate that pocket holes are only on the back side
> of face frames and other non-visible locations of cabinets. They do
> sell the plugs but that is kind of cheesy and you should just use a
> better joint.
>
> I did use them on to connect the upper bookshelf sides, down to the
> counter top of lower cabs on some built-ins. I considered plugs but
> just ended up covering them with some thin trim that looks like some
> perfectly natural interior base molding.
>

I agree... even with plugs, these are something not to be seen.
I used them on the outer surface of the cabinet in my bathroom(s)
remodel but they are invisible, because that surface is painted. Point
being, it's not really something to worry about since they are either on
unseen surfaces or the fuzz will be sanded off during paint prep.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/21/12 12:00 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Gordon Shumway
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Are you drilling the complete hole in one pass? Are you going part
>> way in and then pulling the bit back out to clear the debris and then
>> continuing the drilling? If you are drilling the complete hole in one
>> pass without clearing the debris that could be part of the problem...
>> especially in hard wood.
>
> That's my experience. You do need to retract and clear.
>

If you set up a shop-vac on this thing, it'll take care of that.
If anyone is looking to get into pocket hole joinery, spend the extra
bucks on the dust collection attachments or rig something up at home.
It makes all the difference in the world.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/21/12 8:31 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, -MIKE-
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you set up a shop-vac on this thing, it'll take care of that.
>> If anyone is looking to get into pocket hole joinery, spend the extra
>> bucks on the dust collection attachments or rig something up at home.
>> It makes all the difference in the world.
>
> I have the attachment, but in my experience it's ineffective, the hose
> attachment is badly positioned, and honestly, I don't need the
> additional noise. A quick swoosh with a bench brush works faster,
> cleaner, and quieter.
>

It must be a bad design, because when I simply hold my vac against the
ports of the jig, it clears out most of the muck from the bit/hole....
at least enough to keep me from having to re-plunge the bit several
times to make a clean hole.

I'm curious how a bench brush clear debris from the hole while drilling,
allowing you to drill a clean hole in one pass? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Greg Guarino wrote:
> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a
> couple of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
> especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly. Specifically, the
> left-hand edge of each hole (that's the side that the drill bit
> cutting edge would be "emerging" from, as opposed to the side that
> the bit edge would enter the wood) comes out raggedy-looking. Here's
> a photo, which is not terribly detailed:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/7815429234/sizes/h/in/photostream/
>
> I cleaned them up a bit with a utility knife before I took the photo.
> They end up with thin "fingers" of wood over the hole at the left
> edge. If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like
> them to be a little neater.
>
> These holes aren't going to show; this is a "frame" to hide the ugly
> plaster hole left by the guys who put a through-the-wall air
> conditioner in my Mom's house. In this case, the wood is maple. But
> it did the same sort of thing in pine. I think I used a cordless
> drill this time, but used a corded one (higher rpm, I think) with
> similar results on the last project.
>
> I will add the tally on this bit is only maybe 100 holes. Any ideas?

Any rotating cutter will tend to tear/lift/fuzz the grain on the exit side
especially when cutting cross grain. The only way to avoid it is to
completely back up the edge...think router and edge grain where you use a
sacrificial block.

You can mitigate it to a greater or lesser extent by toughening the wood
surface where it is going to tear or fuzz. On a saw, masking tape helps a
bit, not likely to help in your case. You can also score it. For you, the
easiest/best(?) way would to spray on a coat of lacquer and let it dry well
before drilling. Hardly worth the bother given the ease of knocking off the
fuzz with sandpaper if it bothers you.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

1. Use a good 3/8 "corded" drill, battery drills just don't spin
up fast enough for a clean hole.
2. Have a good sharp bit.
3. Cross grain will cause a little fuzzy edges at times.
4. Use the dust collector if your model supports it.

Your picture appears to be white pine which is tough to get
a good sharp edge on.


On 8/20/2012 12:24 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple
> of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
> especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly.

On 8/21/12 12:57 PM, Pat Barber wrote:
> 1. Use a good 3/8 "corded" drill, battery drills just don't spin
> up fast enough for a clean hole.
> 2. Have a good sharp bit.
> 3. Cross grain will cause a little fuzzy edges at times.
> 4. Use the dust collector if your model supports it.
>
> Your picture appears to be white pine which is tough to get
> a good sharp edge on.
>

Good advice except it depends on the cordless drill.
I have 4 cordless drills. 2 aren't fast enough, 2 are plenty fast enough.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/21/2012 9:17 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 17:19:09 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Karl, didn't you say you were going to buy a pair of the pock-it hole
> clamps? Have you received them and used them yet? I was wondering how
> useful they are?
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30675&site=ROCKLER
>
I bought a pair, which arrived slightly after I built the "frame" I
mentioned in the OP. I haven't tried them yet, but they hang from the
wall nicely in the pocket-holes I drilled in a piece of scrap wood. :)

I am curious about the quick-release mechanism, and whether it makes the
threads inside less able to hold tightly. I'll try to test it when I get
a chance.

On 8/21/2012 11:58 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

> Good advice except it depends on the cordless drill.
> I have 4 cordless drills. 2 aren't fast enough, 2 are plenty fast enough.
>
>

At one point, the Kreg site made a statement that the corded drill is
the preferred tool for making holes. I have always used my 3/8 Makita
with excellent results. I have used my Makita cordless with "similar"
but not as good results.

In a little training session at the spring
woodworking show in Charlotte, the Kreg rep used
a cordless drill with pretty damn good results.

Your mileage and holes may be different with any drill.

On 8/23/12 12:41 PM, Pat Barber wrote:
> On 8/21/2012 11:58 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Good advice except it depends on the cordless drill.
>> I have 4 cordless drills. 2 aren't fast enough, 2 are plenty fast
>> enough.
>>
>
> At one point, the Kreg site made a statement that the corded drill is
> the preferred tool for making holes. I have always used my 3/8 Makita
> with excellent results. I have used my Makita cordless with "similar"
> but not as good results.
>

I'm sure they do recommend corded drills. Until very recently, most
cordless drills were much slower. They also slowed down as the batteries
got weaker. So even if they were fast enough at the start, they weren't
fast enough for half your holes.

LIon batteries don't slow down, they just stop, so that problem is
fading away (pun).


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/23/12 11:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> It appears that this is happening on the holes that go against the grain.
> This would indicate either a loose fit of the bit to the guide hole, a dull
> bit, or the wrong type of bit. Every tool has limitations. It seems that the
> holes that are drilled with the grain are very clean. ????
> Just my two cents.
>

That's the same in any boring situation.
The direction of the grain will cause that with any other drilling.
Sometimes, even with a new Kreg bit and new jig, you can get that.
Different woods react differently.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>

How freakin hot is your shop?
I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
before it affects performance.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>
>>
>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
>> before it affects performance.
>
> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something like the
> square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always keep them in the
> house during the summer. My garage (and attic where most of my tools are) can
> *easily* get to 120F in the summer. It'll be much nicer in the basement of
> the new place. ;-)
>

I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case, like
you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery. I've
been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video equipment for
30 years and I've been through most of the evolution and had a lot of
experience with every generation/technology. I'll take LiIon over any of
them, up until this point. Whatever is down the creek will probably be
better.

Every time a newer battery chemistry comes out, there are naysayers and
they complain about this, that, and the other, when in fact, the new
stuff is always better, almost without exception.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/25/12 12:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120 degrees
>>>> before it affects performance.
>>>
>>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something like the
>>> square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always keep them in the
>>> house during the summer. My garage (and attic where most of my tools are) can
>>> *easily* get to 120F in the summer. It'll be much nicer in the basement of
>>> the new place. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case, like
>> you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery. I've
>> been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video equipment for
>> 30 years and I've been through most of the evolution and had a lot of
>> experience with every generation/technology. I'll take LiIon over any of
>> them, up until this point. Whatever is down the creek will probably be
>> better.
>
> For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.
>

Not for me. NiCad was better than the previous generation of batteries,
but just barely. NiCads couldn't go away fast enough in my book. I can't
think of a single use for which I would prefer NiCad batteries... except
maybe ballast under my buffing wheel. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/25/12 7:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> NiCds aren't heavy enough for ballast. You need lead-acid batteries, for that
> application. ;-)
>

Lead Acid is one battery that is the exception to my rule that the next
gen is always better.... sort of.....

At my last "real" job, I managed and maintained all the audio/video
production gear for a college that taught production. The NiCad batts we
had for video cameras wore out so fast and were so expensive that I had
to come up with a better solution for the students in the field video
prod classes.

After researching, I decided that emergency lighting batteries would
work great. Video cameras run on 12 volts DC, in an operating range
around 10.5-14 volts. These lead acid "brick" batteries would charge up
to 14 volts, had an incredibly high amp-hour capacity for the current
draw of the cameras, and wouldn't develop a "memory."

I wired two of these "bricks" together in small plastic tool boxes. They
would power the cameras for hours at a time and I used simple 12v power
supplies to charge them. I recall that it cost me less to make two of
these double battery tool boxes for less than a single camera battery.
They provided about 20x the power of the camera batts and lasted for years.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/25/12 11:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:44:18 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/25/12 7:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> NiCds aren't heavy enough for ballast. You need lead-acid batteries, for that
>>> application. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Lead Acid is one battery that is the exception to my rule that the next
>> gen is always better.... sort of.....
>>
>> At my last "real" job, I managed and maintained all the audio/video
>> production gear for a college that taught production. The NiCad batts we
>> had for video cameras wore out so fast and were so expensive that I had
>> to come up with a better solution for the students in the field video
>> prod classes.
>>
>> After researching, I decided that emergency lighting batteries would
>> work great. Video cameras run on 12 volts DC, in an operating range
>> around 10.5-14 volts. These lead acid "brick" batteries would charge up
>> to 14 volts, had an incredibly high amp-hour capacity for the current
>> draw of the cameras, and wouldn't develop a "memory."
>
> They're terrible if you discharge them completely, though. Lead-acid
> batteries have to be cared for like a newborn baby. They're a natural for car
> starters or emergency lighting, for pretty much everything else they're sub
> optimum. I did design some SLACs into a mainframe, a little over 20 years
> ago (stored crypto keys with power off) but they weren't without problems.
> LiIon would have been a much better solution today.
>
> The "memory" problem isn't. It hasn't been an issue with NiCds for at *least*
> thirty years, probably forty. Over-charging or reverse-charging (during
> discharge) is what kills NiCds.
>
>> I wired two of these "bricks" together in small plastic tool boxes. They
>> would power the cameras for hours at a time and I used simple 12v power
>> supplies to charge them. I recall that it cost me less to make two of
>> these double battery tool boxes for less than a single camera battery.
>> They provided about 20x the power of the camera batts and lasted for years.
>
> As long as they're constantly charged and never fully discharged, lead-acid
> batteries will last a long time. A couple of complete discharges and they're
> dead. It's rather the opposite of NiCds (there aren't any applications where
> they can be interchanged - one or the other is sub-optimum).
>

They were never fully discharged... not even close. They couldn't be,
since the voltage operating range of the equipment was so high. That's
one of the things that made them perfect, and much, much better than the
ni-cads, for this particular application.

I don't know at what voltage those emergency lights operate, nor how far
down they would drain those lead acid cricks. But the equipment I used
them to power shuts off due to low power long before the batteries were
ever in danger.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/26/12 9:40 AM, Markem wrote:
>> I wired two of these "bricks" together in small plastic tool boxes. They
>> would power the cameras for hours at a time and I used simple 12v power
>> supplies to charge them. I recall that it cost me less to make two of
>> these double battery tool boxes for less than a single camera battery.
>> They provided about 20x the power of the camera batts and lasted for years.
>
> Until they short out agains't a Field production audio mixer, this was
> a fix I participated in when working at Shure Brothers many years ago.
>
> The mixer was general toasted.
>

I generally wouldn't send batteries out to power equipment they
outweighed by five fold. :-) I sent them out with cameras that were
much heavier.

But I'm curious about how this can happen, if you care to explain what
happened in your situation. Are you saying the the battery terminals
shorted against the mixer's housing? Or that there was a short in the
wiring. Most of our professional and even pro-sumer field gear had
internal fusing to protect against current overloads or shorts.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
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On 25 Aug 2012 17:58:56 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:

>-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 8/25/12 12:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:34:47 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/24/12 11:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:43:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/24/12 9:33 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>>>> Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
>>>>>>> the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How freakin hot is your shop?
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure ambient temperature has to get well over 120
>>>>>> degrees before it affects performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any heat is bad for batteries. Chemical processes go something
>>>>> like the square of the temperature, doubling every 10C. I always
>>>>> keep them in the house during the summer. My garage (and attic
>>>>> where most of my tools are) can *easily* get to 120F in the summer.
>>>>> It'll be much nicer in the basement of the new place. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure he didn't mean storage, maybe he did. In any case,
>>>> like you pointed out, heat like that is going to effect any battery.
>>>> I've been working with battery powered tools, and audio/video
>>>> equipment for 30 years and I've been through most of the evolution
>>>> and had a lot of experience with every generation/technology. I'll
>>>> take LiIon over any of them, up until this point. Whatever is down
>>>> the creek will probably be better.
>>>
>>> For many tasks LiIon is the best, though NiCd still has its place.
>>>
>>
>> Not for me. NiCad was better than the previous generation of
>> batteries, but just barely. NiCads couldn't go away fast enough in my
>> book. I can't think of a single use for which I would prefer NiCad
>> batteries... except maybe ballast under my buffing wheel. :-)
>
>Sometimes it is the execution of the technology. I had a NiCad 9.6V
>battery-driven Sears (yeah, I know) drill/driver (973.274960) that
>couldn't hold a charge. I had the 2 sets of batteries rebuilt by
>Primecell in March '11, and now it holds charge really fine. The old
>charger works with them. Not an especially fast high powered drill, but
>now the batteries work fine. It was cheaper (but maybe not that much)
>than buying a new drill.

Lookign at what they want for rebuilds now, I don't think they are cheaper
than buying new tools. :-(

On 8/21/2012 12:57 PM, Pat Barber wrote:
> 1. Use a good 3/8 "corded" drill, battery drills just don't spin
> up fast enough for a clean hole.

Normally I would agree but the T-15 Festool drill works well, as good as
my stand by DeWalt with a tail with no noticeable speed deterioration
under load.






> 2. Have a good sharp bit.
> 3. Cross grain will cause a little fuzzy edges at times.
> 4. Use the dust collector if your model supports it.
>
> Your picture appears to be white pine which is tough to get
> a good sharp edge on.
>
>
> On 8/20/2012 12:24 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I'm a Kreg novice. I've now used the system for 2 projects and a couple
>> of small utility shelves. It's very convenient. But the holes,
>> especially in solid wood, don't drill cleanly.

Lion batteries can't handle heat. e.g. when the shop gets hot,
the battery is failing. They are great in room temp places.

I got a wrench and a screwdriver / allen wrench unit. The wrench
was a nice socket set type - that died in the summer or the winter.

I think the heat broke the seal and the cold finished it off. The other
wrench was in the house and gets use now and then.

Martin

On 8/23/2012 10:20 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/23/12 12:41 PM, Pat Barber wrote:
>> On 8/21/2012 11:58 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Good advice except it depends on the cordless drill.
>>> I have 4 cordless drills. 2 aren't fast enough, 2 are plenty fast
>>> enough.
>>>
>>
>> At one point, the Kreg site made a statement that the corded drill is
>> the preferred tool for making holes. I have always used my 3/8 Makita
>> with excellent results. I have used my Makita cordless with "similar"
>> but not as good results.
>>
>
> I'm sure they do recommend corded drills. Until very recently, most
> cordless drills were much slower. They also slowed down as the batteries
> got weaker. So even if they were fast enough at the start, they weren't
> fast enough for half your holes.
>
> LIon batteries don't slow down, they just stop, so that problem is
> fading away (pun).
>
>

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If I ever use pocket hole s even inside a cabinet, I'd like them to be a
> little neater.
>
> Good form would dictate that pocket holes are only on the back side of
> face frames and other non-visible locations of cabinets. They do sell the
> plugs but that is kind of cheesy and you should just use a better joint.
>
> I did use them on to connect the upper bookshelf sides, down to the
> counter top of lower cabs on some built-ins. I considered plugs but just
> ended up covering them with some thin trim that looks like some perfectly
> natural interior base molding.

I cannot recall ever using them where I was worried about the looks of the
hole edges... either it was rough work where I didn't care period, or it was
concealed by later work. If appearance matters I use mortise and tenon or
handcut dovetails... To some degree I have lately used corrugated fasteners
where I formerly would have used Kreg screws... keep things together to
assist in assembly and/or hold hidden pieces together while the glue holding
plywood skins dried. But that's me...

John