I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of
them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around.
Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter.
https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg
So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like
adding runners to make it safer.
If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would
practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed
something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed.
Thanks!
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 1:07:18 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One =
of=20
> > them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying aroun=
d.=20
> > Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter.
> >=20
> > https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg
> >=20
> > So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at t=
he=20
> > process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
> >=20
> > Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
> >=20
> > https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
> >=20
> > Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like=
=20
> > adding runners to make it safer.
> >=20
> > If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a=
=20
> > power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I wou=
ld=20
> > practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed=
=20
> > something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encourage=
ment/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed.
> >=20
> > Thanks!
>=20
> "Don't do it!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dprt3HMq_k1g
I had to chuckle, not at the video that you supplied, but at the one that=
=20
automatically followed it. As soon as the one you linked to ended, the
next one was Tom Silva and Kevin O=E2=80=99Connor (Ask This Old House) maki=
ng a=20
end grain cutting board by sending it through the planer.=20
They had added leading and trailing boards to "prevent chipping", per Tom.
Tom also said "I could sand it but that's going to take a lot of work" and=
=20
(as to the planer) "only taking a little bit off each time".
He also stood almost directly in line with the in feed end of the planer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DO97enrnp0MY
Here's a video of a guy using every precaution available, explaining each o=
ne.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DQJ2LSj4RhAs
pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> writes:
>Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
>typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>>>
>>> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>>
>>I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding.
>
> If memory serves, weren't the "little" block planes developed in
>part for smoothing butcher blocks?
It's not the size of the plane that matters so much as the angle
of the blade to the wood. A very low angle works better on
end-grain than the standard angle (a higher angle than standard works better
on gnarly grain). A low-angle jack would be the go-to plane
for smoothing a butcher block, IMO.
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 10:00:22 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 10/14/2018 7:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
> > re: "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a
> > butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there
> > so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that."
> >
> > What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the
> > leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once
> > the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut
> > off also.
> >
> > If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger
> > of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly.
>
> I wouldn't put much faith in the glue part of the joint so it's counting
> on the screws to do the job. _Probably_ would be just fine but
> personally I'd worry about the "what if" enough I'd be awfully
> reluctant, personally.
>
> If I were to go that route, I think I'd just go ahead and run a 1/4" or
> 3/8" dado and use a spline as the joint...it's more work but not a
> terrible, terrible lot.
>
> I really do think the taper is enough, if you're careful-careful to not
> accidentally get too deep a cut on that first pass...
>
> --
This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely
through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't
follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must
all make our own decisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>=20
> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening=
. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt =
sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding.
Chain sawed slabs, then disk sanded with 32 grit.... After belt sanding (80=
, 120 and 320 grit), palm sanding was sufficient for these end grain side t=
ables. A few touch-up hand sanding spots to make the grain show clearly ov=
er the whole surface. Time consuming, but worth it, especially with nice =
grain detail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/7327627522/in/date=
posted-public/
I've made at least half a dozen of these sorts of tables. I suppose the =
surfacing of these tops are similar to surfacing cutting boards.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/8011569479/in/dateposted-public/
I think these, above, are the only end grain work I have experience with. =
I've never made a cutting board.
Cutting boards don't need to be absolutely perfectly flat, anyway, IMO.
Sonny
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 1:04:47 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
> > If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> > power planer ...
>
> As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take
> hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout.
>
> The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more
> likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a
> glueline breaks or the like.
>
> On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused
> by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be
> enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and
> given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to
> slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split
> along the length more easily.
>
> A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able
> with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no...
>
> It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to
> use the router instead for starters...
>
> --
I've made several end grain cutting boards and I agree that the key is to take very thin cuttings on each pass. Patience is the key. I would also say to let the glue-ups cure for a day or more to make sure they don't break under stress.
There's no doubt that a surface sander is the better option.
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 12:48:59 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 10/13/2018 2:14 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> > On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote:
> >> On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> >>> power planer ...
> >>
> >> As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take
> >> hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout.
> >>
> >> The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more
> >> likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a
> >> glueline breaks or the like.
> >>
> >> On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt
> >> caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that
> >> can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to
> >> cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is
> >> harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that
> >> will split along the length more easily.
> >>
> >> A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able
> >> with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no...
> >>
> >> It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig
> >> to use the router instead for starters...
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works
> > out well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've
> > had to keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my
> > equipment but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts
> > super-light make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is
> > needed before oiling.
>
> I don't disagree it's doable and can be reasonably safe -- my comment
> was that I don't believe it's the very first use of a planer an
> individual ought to make without some "time in grade" to really become
> familiar with the particular machine in question and comfortable in its
> idiosyncracies...
>
> I agree wholeheartedly that the way to make it the "most safe" is with
> leading/trailing edges; at worst they're tapered somewhat but still the
> end grain with the workpiece oversized; at best they are sacrificial
> sections of long grain; the problem there is one has to use something
> more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a
> failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that.
>
> --
re: "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a
butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there
so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that."
What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the
leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once
the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut
off also.
If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger
of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly.
Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
>
>> I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
>> meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
>> preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
>> shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
>> dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
>> the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
>> particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
>> reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
>> helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
>> many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
>> for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
>
> I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for
> shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If
> you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue
> ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards
> to reduce/eliminate cupping.
>
> Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing them
> flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups because
> of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact, flat sawn
> lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat sawn is quarter
> sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes this a relatively
> easy task.
I knew going in that working with such wide, construction grade boards,
could be problematic. It just seemed more expedient as it theoretically
would require half the set ups and glue ups. (Famous last words.) And I did
try to find good boards. The cupping is minimal on most, and my meter showed
<13% moisture IIRC. If the first shelf didn't work well I'm willing to rip
the boards. And in any event I'm willing to learn the hard way. Some cupping
or cracking is tolerable considering they're for garage storage. (Though
maybe the design wouldn't tolerate it well?)
What I'm aiming for is something like this
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-7tYSKktV720/TfggfTcwmII/AAAAAAAA6M8/3Iej-QQTmDM/IMAG0157.jpg?imgmax=320
I like the simplicity but which can still carry significant weight across a
long span (for stuff too heavy and bulky to put on the wall shelving), which
is one reason why I'm not going the sensible route of plywood and framing. I
also recently began to notice 2x8" and 2x12" pine boards used for commercial
table tops, including a nice oil finished 8' freestanding lunch counter at a
deli using two ~2.5x12" douglas fir boards. So I figured I'd have a go of
it.
If I had a planer I wouldn't hesitate to use 6" boards. I'd like to have a
planer. I'm just trying to resist buying more tools, especially bulky ones.
If I rip the boards and then flatten them with the router sled I worry I
couldn't repeat the thickness without alot of trial+error, causing headaches
with the edge glue up. After 24' of 1x24" shelving I've only just begun to
figure out how to use cauls properly (after ditching dowels). Maybe that's
just my inexperience making for bad priorities.
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 9:01:05 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 10/14/2018 9:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
> > This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely
> > through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't
> > follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must
> > all make our own decisions.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs
>
> NB: He's _NOT_ using the lunchbox planer for this...
>
> --
If you mean that he is not using the Makita, then I beg to differ.
At 0:58 he states that the Makita was in use for 3 years before he
bought the Jet. I assume that he meant that he was planing end grain
cutting boards with it. Now, we all know that making assumptions can
be risky business, so let's fast forward to 10:35 and 11:45 when
he actually does use the Makita to plane end grain.
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 9:39:51 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards.
> So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
> process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
Drum sander (or belt sander) would do it easier. Drop the raw item on the deck
and run a flooring machine over it a few times, then take the machine
back to the rental place.
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
> On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
>
> > I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
> > meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
> > preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
> > shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
> > dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
> > the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
> > particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
> > reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
> > helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
> > many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
> > for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
>
> I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for
> shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If
> you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue
> ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards
> to reduce/eliminate cupping.
>
Did someone mention plywood shelves? The back shelves are 20" deep to the
stud faces, the side ones are 16". The loft is 36" deep.
20" works well for a shelf and allows you to rip cleats from the cutoffs.
Very little waste.
https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg
I built the loft about 30 years, but the shelves are only a few months old. I
built them to replace a hodge-podge of individual shelving units, including
an old particle board entertainment center. Can you say fugly?
They work so well I'm thinking of going out to get more stuff just so I can
build some more shelves. ;-)
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:21:37 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
>
>> I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
>> meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
>> preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
>> shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
>> dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
>> the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
>> particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
>> reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
>> helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
>> many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
>> for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
>
>I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for
>shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If
>you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue
>ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards
>to reduce/eliminate cupping.
>
>Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing
>them flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups
>because of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact,
>flat sawn lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat
>sawn is quarter sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes
>this a relatively easy task.
I'm with you on plywood. If it needs to be stronger/firmer than 3/4"
ply allows, frame it in 1x or 2x pine (on edge, preferably). Dadoing
(ploughing) the edges of the frame to fit the plywood makes for some
very sturdy shelving with solid edges that will take a beating.
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of
> them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around.
> Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg
>
> So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
> process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
>
> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>
> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>
> Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like
> adding runners to make it safer.
>
> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would
> practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed
> something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed.
>
> Thanks!
"Don't do it!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prt3HMq_k1g
On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
>> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
>> power planer ...
>
> As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take
> hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout.
>
> The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely
> related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline
> breaks or the like.
>
> On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by
> the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to
> cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the
> endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than
> when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length
> more easily.
>
> A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with
> care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no...
>
> It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to
> use the router instead for starters...
>
> --
I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works out
well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've had to
keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my equipment
but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts super-light
make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is needed before
oiling.
On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> power planer ...
As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take
hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout.
The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more
likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a
glueline breaks or the like.
On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused
by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be
enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and
given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to
slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split
along the length more easily.
A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able
with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no...
It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to
use the router instead for starters...
--
On 10/13/18 12:49 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 9:39:51 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards.
>> So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
>> process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
>
> Drum sander (or belt sander) would do it easier. Drop the raw item on the deck
> and run a flooring machine over it a few times, then take the machine
> back to the rental place.
>
I'd use a planer with the sacrificial boards if I didn't have a DS, but
you'd need to clean you the surface first with a belt sander before
having at it.
Since I do have a DS. I get the surfaces flat with 36 grit, then work up
to 180 before finishing with a RO sander.
-BR
On 10/13/2018 12:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of
> them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around.
> Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg
>
> So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
> process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
>
> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>
> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>
> Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like
> adding runners to make it safer.
>
> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would
> practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed
> something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed.
I've not made end grain cutting boards, but, my recommendation is not to
unless you get a segmented spiral cutter head. If buying a planer, (or
jointer) I highly recommend getting a segmented, spiral cutter head
anyway. These things cut knots, wild grain and so on without a stutter.
The cutter heads are a little more money, but well worth it.
I would still use at least a leading edge made of long grain to get the
cut started, and possibly a trailing edge as well for tear out, but that
could be cut off later. The leading edge is where kickback might come
from and that could be bad for your and the planer.
The advantages of spiral segmented cutter are many, so do yourself a
favor if buying a planer and go for the better tool here.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 10/13/2018 2:14 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
>>> power planer ...
>>
>> As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take
>> hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout.
>>
>> The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more
>> likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a
>> glueline breaks or the like.
>>
>> On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt
>> caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that
>> can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to
>> cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is
>> harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that
>> will split along the length more easily.
>>
>> A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able
>> with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no...
>>
>> It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig
>> to use the router instead for starters...
>>
>> --
>
> I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works
> out well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've
> had to keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my
> equipment but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts
> super-light make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is
> needed before oiling.
I don't disagree it's doable and can be reasonably safe -- my comment
was that I don't believe it's the very first use of a planer an
individual ought to make without some "time in grade" to really become
familiar with the particular machine in question and comfortable in its
idiosyncracies...
I agree wholeheartedly that the way to make it the "most safe" is with
leading/trailing edges; at worst they're tapered somewhat but still the
end grain with the workpiece oversized; at best they are sacrificial
sections of long grain; the problem there is one has to use something
more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a
failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that.
--
On 10/14/2018 7:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
> re: "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a
> butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there
> so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that."
>
> What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the
> leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once
> the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut
> off also.
>
> If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger
> of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly.
I wouldn't put much faith in the glue part of the joint so it's counting
on the screws to do the job. _Probably_ would be just fine but
personally I'd worry about the "what if" enough I'd be awfully
reluctant, personally.
If I were to go that route, I think I'd just go ahead and run a 1/4" or
3/8" dado and use a spline as the joint...it's more work but not a
terrible, terrible lot.
I really do think the taper is enough, if you're careful-careful to not
accidentally get too deep a cut on that first pass...
--
On 10/14/2018 9:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
> This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely
> through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't
> follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must
> all make our own decisions.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs
NB: He's _NOT_ using the lunchbox planer for this...
--
On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
> I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
> meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
> preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
> shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
> dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
> the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
> particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
> reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
> helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
> many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
> for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for
shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If
you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue
ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards
to reduce/eliminate cupping.
Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing
them flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups
because of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact,
flat sawn lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat
sawn is quarter sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes
this a relatively easy task.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.c
> I do have a router and have already built a sled using an 8' MDF trim board
> (cut in half), two angle irons (already had on hand), a 2'x4' particle board
> backer, some scrap wood, and a 1 1/2" cleaning router bit. Hopefully I'll
> get a chance to start leveling the boards this weekend.
>
> Regarding kickback, I would just say to hope for the best and *expect* the
> worst. I'm extremely cautious by nature, but grew up working summers on my
> dad's construction crew where it was normal to shoot nail guns at people
> when they're on 20'-high scaffolding for laughs. I always go slow but
> appreciate that people can be too risk averse. (Or maybe the lesson was just
> that people who are too risk adverse get shot at with nail guns when they're
> on 20'-high scaffolding.)
>
> I've also read advice that free-handing a cleaning router bit can be
> dangerous too, especially for a bit size 2" or wider. I don't (and
> shouldn't) expect the sled to do much to minimize that risk.
>
> I think the most important thing is to expect the unexpected, and don't get
> lazy about it. You already have good reason to expect the board to shatter
> or become a projectile, so prepare accordingly. Advice seems mixed, so you
> have plausible deniability about knowing how stupid it was.
>om
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:03:58 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
>> On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
>>
>> > I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
>> > meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
>> > preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
>> > shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
>> > dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
>> > the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
>> > particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
>> > reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
>> > helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
>> > many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
>> > for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
>>
>> I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for
>> shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If
>> you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue
>> ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards
>> to reduce/eliminate cupping.
>>
>
>Did someone mention plywood shelves? The back shelves are 20" deep to the
>stud faces, the side ones are 16". The loft is 36" deep.
>
>20" works well for a shelf and allows you to rip cleats from the cutoffs.
>Very little waste.
>
>https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg
>
>I built the loft about 30 years, but the shelves are only a few months old. I
>built them to replace a hodge-podge of individual shelving units, including
>an old particle board entertainment center. Can you say fugly?
>
>They work so well I'm thinking of going out to get more stuff just so I can
>build some more shelves. ;-)
"Stuff expands to fill the amount of space available." Making
more shelves, just increases the amount of space available.
I have stopped "shifting" stuff around in the house to "make
room", for it seems she just fills it all back up anyway. Sigh.
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of
> them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around.
> Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg
>
> So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the
> process and decided it's time to buy a planer.
>
> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>
> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>
> Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like
> adding runners to make it safer.
>
> If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a
> power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would
> practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed
> something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed.
>
> Thanks!
I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by
meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm
preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling
shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap
dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike
the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not
particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help
reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't
helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too
many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay
for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing).
I do have a router and have already built a sled using an 8' MDF trim board
(cut in half), two angle irons (already had on hand), a 2'x4' particle board
backer, some scrap wood, and a 1 1/2" cleaning router bit. Hopefully I'll
get a chance to start leveling the boards this weekend.
Regarding kickback, I would just say to hope for the best and *expect* the
worst. I'm extremely cautious by nature, but grew up working summers on my
dad's construction crew where it was normal to shoot nail guns at people
when they're on 20'-high scaffolding for laughs. I always go slow but
appreciate that people can be too risk averse. (Or maybe the lesson was just
that people who are too risk adverse get shot at with nail guns when they're
on 20'-high scaffolding.)
I've also read advice that free-handing a cleaning router bit can be
dangerous too, especially for a bit size 2" or wider. I don't (and
shouldn't) expect the sled to do much to minimize that risk.
I think the most important thing is to expect the unexpected, and don't get
lazy about it. You already have good reason to expect the board to shatter
or become a projectile, so prepare accordingly. Advice seems mixed, so you
have plausible deniability about knowing how stupid it was.
Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>>
>> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>
>I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding.
If memory serves, weren't the "little" block planes developed in
part for smoothing butcher blocks?
>
>Chain sawed slabs, then disk sanded with 32 grit.... After belt sanding (80, 120 and 320 grit), palm sanding was sufficient for these end grain side tables. A few touch-up hand sanding spots to make the grain show clearly over the whole surface. Time consuming, but worth it, especially with nice grain detail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/7327627522/in/dateposted-public/
>
>I've made at least half a dozen of these sorts of tables. I suppose the surfacing of these tops are similar to surfacing cutting boards.
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/8011569479/in/dateposted-public/
>
>I think these, above, are the only end grain work I have experience with. I've never made a cutting board.
>
>Cutting boards don't need to be absolutely perfectly flat, anyway, IMO.
I'd say that cutting boards need to be flat "enough" that stuff
doesn't get caught by any holes or high spots.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) on Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:10:38 GMT
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> writes:
>>Sonny <[email protected]> on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
>>typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/end-grain-through-the-planer/
>>>
>>>I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding.
>>
>> If memory serves, weren't the "little" block planes developed in
>>part for smoothing butcher blocks?
>
>It's not the size of the plane that matters so much as the angle
>of the blade to the wood. A very low angle works better on
>end-grain than the standard angle (a higher angle than standard works better
>on gnarly grain). A low-angle jack would be the go-to plane
>for smoothing a butcher block, IMO.
"Low angle jack" - that's what I was trying to remember.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?