It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
on my specifics.
Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never built
a piece of quality furniture.
Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
feel.)
On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room of
my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet this
week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
starting from scratch.
Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other stuff
to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping to
reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent but
I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and I
buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
In order of preference:
General International 50-850 ($649)
Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
Powermatic 64A ($750)
Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects out
successfully.
From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier to
obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
Thanks!
-Another wannabe
Gerry L wrote:
> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
> on my specifics.
>
>
>
> Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
> school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
> built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never built
> a piece of quality furniture.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> feel.)
>
>
>
> On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room of
> my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
> so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
> the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet this
> week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
> levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> starting from scratch.
>
>
>
> Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
> tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other stuff
> to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping to
> reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
> would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
> minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent but
> I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and I
> buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
>
>
>
> Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
> this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
>
>
>
> In order of preference:
>
>
>
> General International 50-850 ($649)
>
> Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
>
> Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
>
> Powermatic 64A ($750)
>
>
>
> Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects out
> successfully.
>
>
>
> From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
> General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier to
> obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
> the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
> Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
> price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
>
>
>
> Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Another wannabe
>
>
DAGS
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&group=rec.woodworking
Well, I think you touched on my confusion.
I was looking at things with the idea that a good contractor's saw will run
about $800 and that the cabinet saws start around $1500. That made me
decide earlier to go with a quality contractor's saw. Eventually, I came to
like the General 50-185 and was surprised by it's pricing ($650+options).
Cool!
But I got thrown when some good reviews introduced me to the Grizzly 1023
cabinet at $900. I can deal with that price also if it's worth it. Cost
will have to be second to getting a saw that cuts right.
So I'm looking to compare the value proposition of going with the General
50-185 (at $650+) vs. a low-end cabinet saw, like the Grizzly 1023SL.
(After opening my eyes, I now see that there is also a low-end General
cabinet (the 50-200) that goes for $1000 -- and I have a local dealer,
hmmm!) Let's say this is my comfort point for cost. (The Delta and
Powermatic go out of range from what I see. - and I've got issues with
Delta.)
Will the extra $250-$350 to move into a low-end Grizzly or GI cabinet make
much of a difference for what I plan to do? I'm big on the idea of cutting
once, cutting right, and it seems like the manufacturing quality (the
tolerances) at this level is what it's all about. For instance, the sales
guy at the local General distributor mentioned acceptable tolerances of
4/1000ths on the 50-185, but then he mentioned 10/1000ths as a reasonable
expectation. But I've seen reviewers talk about pleasure when hitting .0015
variance on the fence. If I want to cut once/cut right, for "pretty good"
quality, home cabinetry, what kind of tolerance should I require and will I
have a right to demand that from a GI 50-185?
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of going with the local
distributor for the support factors. (By the way, I just lucked out in
having a local General distributor. I found myself really interested in the
50-185 and then looked up dealers and found I was passing one every day on
my way home from work!!) So my tendency is to balance the 50-185 vs the
50-200.
Thanks so much for listening!
-Gerry
"Can I buy it now, can I buy it now?"
"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My compliments! I wish I could have seen a General before I bought my
> Unisaw but I am not disappointed. I wonder why you omitted the Unisaw
> totally?
> Most rank tablesaws:
> 1) Powermatic 66
> 2) Unisaw/Jet
> 3) Grizzly 1023
>
>
> 7) hybrid saws
> You assessed the fence blade situation very well. Goood luck and happy
> cutting!!!!
>
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:21:47 GMT, "Gerry L" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
input
> >on my specifics.
> >
> >
> >
> >Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
> >school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
> >built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never
built
> >a piece of quality furniture.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> >entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> >eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> >envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> >coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> >feel.)
> >
> >
> >
> >On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room
of
> >my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live
in,
> >so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
> >the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet
this
> >week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some
clamps,
> >levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> >starting from scratch.
> >
> >
> >
> >Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
> >tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other
stuff
> >to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping
to
> >reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place.
I
> >would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
> >minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent
but
> >I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements
and I
> >buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
> >
> >
> >
> >Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading
in
> >this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> >requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> >mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
> >
> >
> >
> >In order of preference:
> >
> >
> >
> >General International 50-850 ($649)
> >
> >Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
> >
> >Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
> >
> >Powermatic 64A ($750)
> >
> >
> >
> >Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects
out
> >successfully.
> >
> >
> >
> >From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a
local
> >General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier
to
> >obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor
claims
> >the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
> >
> >
> >
> >On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
> >Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
> >price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
> >
> >
> >
> >Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> >many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >-Another wannabe
> >
>
Gerry L wrote:
> The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of going with the
> local distributor for the support factors.
Good choice. I really like my Grizzly contractor saw, but like many others
who have posted here, something in the first set of boxes didn't go together
right. Local support would have been great.
-- Mark
"Bob G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > On a serious note, a good used DeWalt, i.e. 7790, GWI, will out perform
> > "ANY" TS.
>
> > Rumpty
> >
> ======================
> Rumpty:
>
> We all know you LOVE your RAS and thats fine.. !
>
> I have to wonder however what you would say if you were NOT making a
SERIOUS
> comment...
>
> My opinion, and the vast majority of other woodworkers, is just the
complete
> opposite of yours...
>
> Bob Griffiths
Bob,
Maybe with some caveats I'd agree with Rumpty. The 7790 is a great machine
in knowledgeable, experienced hands. It takes more configuring than some TSs
but will not outperform *ALL* TSs (Felder and Altendorf will disagree for
sure). It may outperform all contractor saws at an equivalent price range,
low end cabinet saws can also be junky.
The main issues with RASs generally are the setup, maintenance and some
safety issues (from my reading anyway), not the quality or inherent
useability when correctly configured and used.
cheers,
Greg
My compliments! I wish I could have seen a General before I bought my
Unisaw but I am not disappointed. I wonder why you omitted the Unisaw
totally?
Most rank tablesaws:
1) Powermatic 66
2) Unisaw/Jet
3) Grizzly 1023
7) hybrid saws
You assessed the fence blade situation very well. Goood luck and happy
cutting!!!!
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:21:47 GMT, "Gerry L" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
>on my specifics.
>
>
>
>Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
>school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
>built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never built
>a piece of quality furniture.
>
>
>
>Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
>entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
>eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
>envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
>coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
>feel.)
>
>
>
>On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room of
>my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
>so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
>the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet this
>week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
>levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
>starting from scratch.
>
>
>
>Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
>tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other stuff
>to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping to
>reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
>would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
>minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent but
>I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and I
>buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
>
>
>
>Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
>this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
>requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
>mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
>
>
>
>In order of preference:
>
>
>
>General International 50-850 ($649)
>
>Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
>
>Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
>
>Powermatic 64A ($750)
>
>
>
>Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects out
>successfully.
>
>
>
>From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
>General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier to
>obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
>the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
>
>
>
>On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
>Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
>price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
>
>
>
>Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
>many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
>
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>-Another wannabe
>
I can't believe you said that!
I'll be damned if I didn't !!
I did buy a fr$ckn RAS! Oh yeah, it's more versatile ...
It had four (4) defective parts and had at least a 1/16th to 1/8" play at
the stops before locking the yolk. And this was after talking to technical
support and fiddling with it for several hours.
Don't get me wrong. Theoretically, a RAS seems quite workable and is more
versatile, but it just didn't work out that way for me. Maybe mine was too
cheap (but it cost several hundred), or maybe the manufacturer's quality
just didn't apply to this particular unit (yeah!), and/or maybe I was just
an idiot with no experience (okay, fine!), but I can handle myself around a
server room and am not a complete idiot.
I sent it back and I'm not looking back. I'm a convert!
-Gerry
"Scr#w up once, shame on them. Scr#w up twice, shame on me" or however it
goes.
(no real offence intended - just a bad experience man!)
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Forget the TS, buy a RAS!
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
> > It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
input
> > on my specifics.
> >
>
>
Thanks for explaining "dags". I kind of thought Kevin had clicked reply by
mistake. But I get it now.
Actually, I did the google searches prior to coming here. That's how I come
around to liking the GI 50-185. I didn't realize it was accessing the same
newsgroup and my newsreader searches didn't yeild many hits on the Generals
here. (must of missed something..)
Gerry
"Perry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Our table saw is the heart of our operation. We bought a used (old)
> Craftsman (pre-Crapsman) saw. Bought a Vega fence and then the husband
made
> the most super cabinet. All told, we have about $600 invested.
> It doesn't always have to be new.
> I realize the stock answer here to the table saw question is to do a
google
> search (dags). It has been discussed ad nauseum. Just with any tool, you
> will have to decide your budget, your needs, find some buddies to hang out
> with and pick their brains.
> Perry
> "Kevin French" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Gerry L wrote:
> > > It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
> input
> > > on my specifics.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in
high
> > > school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my
dad
> > > built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never
> built
> > > a piece of quality furniture.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> > > entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> > > eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself)
and
> > > envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> > > coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> > > feel.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance
> room of
> > > my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live
> in,
> > > so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet,
> but
> > > the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet
> this
> > > week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some
> clamps,
> > > levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> > > starting from scratch.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking
> hand
> > > tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other
> stuff
> > > to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm
> hoping to
> > > reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first
place.
> I
> > > would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together
> with
> > > minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some
extent
> but
> > > I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements
> and I
> > > buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of
reading
> in
> > > this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> > > requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> > > mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In order of preference:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > General International 50-850 ($649)
> > >
> > > Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
> > >
> > > Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
> > >
> > > Powermatic 64A ($750)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn
projects
> out
> > > successfully.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a
> local
> > > General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment
> easier to
> > > obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor
> claims
> > > the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better
> priced.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group
about
> > > Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given
the
> > > price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't
see
> > > many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Another wannabe
> > >
> > >
> >
> > DAGS
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&group=rec.woodworking
> >
>
In article <%[email protected]>,
Gerry L <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
>on my specifics.
>
>
>
>Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
>school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
>built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never built
>a piece of quality furniture.
>
>
>
>Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
>entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
>eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
>envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
>coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
>feel.)
>
>
>
>On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room of
>my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
>so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
>the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet this
>week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
>levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
>starting from scratch.
>
>
>
>Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
>tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other stuff
>to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping to
>reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
>would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
>minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent but
>I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and I
>buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
>
>
>
>Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
>this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
>requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
>mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
>
>
>
>In order of preference:
>
>
>
>General International 50-850 ($649)
>
>Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
>
>Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
>
>Powermatic 64A ($750)
>
>
>
>Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects out
>successfully.
>
>
>
>From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
>General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier to
>obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
>the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
>
>
>
>On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
>Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
>price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
>
>
>
>Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
>many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
Just a few comments:
1) "General International" is the label for the Pac Rim imported saws.
"General" is the label for the ones made in North America.
There _is_ a notable difference in quality.
2) Don't be afraid to consider "used" tools, as long as you stay away
from the low-end hobbiest cr*p. A quality, used, contractor saw,
something like Delta's 34-4xx series, is probably in the $700 range,
_after_ you add the 'goodies' you mention.
3) HERETICAL THOUGHT -- you might want to consider getting a Ryobi BT3100
(at only about US$300!) to start with. The 'accessories' you mention
_will_ migrate to a "successor", if/when that time comes. And, you
should easily recover at least 50% of the original 'investment' by
selling it, again, if/when you decide to replace it.
Hi Gerry,
I've got a Delta contractor saw that I'm happy with (36-650C - it's a
Canadian Version with cast wings and a lifetime warranty). It was $700 CDN.
I had looked for a decent used cabinet saw but couldn't find anything in my
area. I would have considered the Grizzly cabinet saw as well but being a
Canadian it's a pain to get one and if I ever needed it serviced or had to
bring it back it would be a big hassle.
That being said, right now, I would lean towards a cabinet saw simply
because of the better and easier dust collection.
One other thing, the Generals are very popular up here, being a Canadian
outfit, but the biggest knock on their equipment is the manuals are total
garbage. Apparently they are working on this and I think some of their
newer machines already have better manuals. I have a GI jointer and the
assembly instructions are a joke.
---BeerBoy
"Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
> on my specifics.
>
>
>
> Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
> school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
> built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never
built
> a piece of quality furniture.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> feel.)
>
>
>
> On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room
of
> my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
> so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
> the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet
this
> week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
> levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> starting from scratch.
>
>
>
> Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
> tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other
stuff
> to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping
to
> reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
> would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
> minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent
but
> I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and
I
> buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
>
>
>
> Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
> this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
>
>
>
> In order of preference:
>
>
>
> General International 50-850 ($649)
>
> Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
>
> Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
>
> Powermatic 64A ($750)
>
>
>
> Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects
out
> successfully.
>
>
>
> From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
> General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier
to
> obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
> the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
> Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
> price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
>
>
>
> Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Another wannabe
>
>
Gerry L wrote:
> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
> on my specifics.
This is either a very productive troll or genuine.
Cool.
>
> Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> feel.)
.......
>
> Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
For what you describe as being your immediate plans you could use my #3
saw, a Rockwell 9" from the mid 60's.
After getting over the difficulty of obtaining 9" blades with 5/8 arbor
she is a sweetheart. Worm gear trunion, extensions (such as they are), a
Rockwell fence sufficient for 'rough cut' without needing to indicate it
to spec, and easily passes the 'nickel test' with a lawnmower belt and
Irwin blade.
LMAO.
Has the Rockwell base with retractable wheels.
Gloat?
Won it with a bid of $110.
Buy Used.
Brought it home, reinstalled and aligned the fence, cut a board.
After having this saw for a few months went to another auction, an off
brand 10" cabinet saw went for $25. If I didn't already have a rough cut
saw (Saw #1, Craftsman 10", $30 plus clean/ tune) this saw would have
went for a bit more.
Buy used.
I would have got this last saw if I could have justified it to myself.
Wife would have no trouble with it. I left it go for $25 because the
winning bidder looked like he needed it more than I. To do it right it
would have needed taken apart, cleaned, lubed and reassembled. That's
par for the course.
14' x 17' isn't bad for a shop. Under your conditions it's really sort
of good. Lots of people here would love that much dedicated space.
See if the electrician will run a sub panel for you.
Just occurred to me, you may have access to 3 phase. Be surprised how
cheap 3 phase equipment can go, not many people have it or are willing
to get it.
Anyway you look at it you have a 'no voltage drop' situation, enjoy it.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
you forgot to tell him to slick up the table top with Vaseline...
dave
Rumpty wrote:
> Forget the TS, buy a RAS!
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
>
>>It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
>>on my specifics.
>>
>
>
>
>I did buy a fr$ckn RAS! Oh yeah, it's more versatile ...
On a serious note, a good used DeWalt, i.e. 7790, GWI, will out perform
"ANY" TS.
BTW, why did you ask this question to the group? You should have sent an
email directly to B.A.D. for woodworking advice.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
he would have gotten better advice than listening to you! :)
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, huh, Rumpty?
dave
Rumpty wrote:
>>I did buy a fr$ckn RAS! Oh yeah, it's more versatile ...
>
>
> On a serious note, a good used DeWalt, i.e. 7790, GWI, will out perform
> "ANY" TS.
>
> BTW, why did you ask this question to the group? You should have sent an
> email directly to B.A.D. for woodworking advice.
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
>The main issues with RASs generally are the setup, maintenance and some
safety issues (from my reading anyway), not the quality or inherent
usability when correctly configured and used.
Greg,
That can also be said about the table saw. Once set up with a decent table
a DeWalt will perform for years without any additional setup. They'll do
some things a TS can't and they out perform a TS as a shaper or moulder and
are very precise.
The only thing I haven't found a way to do is multiple dado crosscuts in a
wide sheet of plywood as you can do on the TS, but that can be easily
replaced with biscuits for hanging a drawer support.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Groggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >>
> The main issues with RASs generally are the setup, maintenance and some
> safety issues (from my reading anyway), not the quality or inherent
> useability when correctly configured and used.
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Forget the TS, buy a RAS!
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum:
> http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
>> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
>> input on my specifics.
>>
>
>
I would never buy a RAS...and I am far from alone to see all the used RAS
ads in the local papers.
That machine is just too frickin' scary....and it does not offer anything
that I can't do with my TS and router.
Not to mention I don't have a wall handy I can dedicate to it...
If I need that kind of crosscut capability, I will buy a SCMS before I buy
a RAS.
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:24:27 +0000, stickdoctorq wrote:
> That machine is just too frickin' scary....and it does not offer anything
> that I can't do with my TS and router.
>
> Not to mention I don't have a wall handy I can dedicate to it...
>
> If I need that kind of crosscut capability, I will buy a SCMS before I buy
> a RAS.
Here's a partial list of things I do on my RAS that I haven't figured out
how to do on a TS:
1) Drum sanding
2) Rotary surface planing
3) Horizontal boring
4) Overhead pin routing
5) 1/2" bore shaper cutters
and yes, it rips accurately as well as crosscuts. If I had to give up one
of either the TS or RAS, the TS would go. OTOH, as soon as I have
(re)-saved enough for a 1023SL, it will replace my current TS.
-Doug
If you can get the General locally for that price, then there you go.
Always try to support local dealers when at all possible. You can save a
few bucks doing mail order but local service and support is hard to beat.
After the table saw, kind of cool it on the power tool purchases. Just get
what you need to finish your latest project. If you go out and blow a wad
on tools before you even know what you really need you'll probably be sorry.
Your first project should be a decent bench. Do a Google seach on that
subject and you should have enough reading for a couple of months. I did
mine from a Fine Woodworking of a few years back, issue 96 I believe. If
you're interested I'll try to check on it for you.
Just remember that you are going to have to move it in a little while so
don't build a "boat in the basement" kind of bench. Plan on being able to
get it back apart.
You can also plan on building a couple of cabinets and maybe and
outfeed/assembly table. Oh, and you'll wind up wanting a router table, too.
I just moved my shop after ten years in the same location. It will amaze
you what you can accumulate in such a short period of time.
Jim
"Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
> on my specifics.
>
>
>
> Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
> school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
> built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never
built
> a piece of quality furniture.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> feel.)
>
>
>
> On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance room
of
> my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live in,
> so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet, but
> the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet
this
> week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some clamps,
> levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> starting from scratch.
>
>
>
> Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking hand
> tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other
stuff
> to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm hoping
to
> reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place. I
> would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together with
> minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent
but
> I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements and
I
> buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
>
>
>
> Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading in
> this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
>
>
>
> In order of preference:
>
>
>
> General International 50-850 ($649)
>
> Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
>
> Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
>
> Powermatic 64A ($750)
>
>
>
> Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects
out
> successfully.
>
>
>
> From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a local
> General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment easier
to
> obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor claims
> the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better priced.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
> Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
> price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
>
>
>
> Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Another wannabe
>
>
Ensure lights aren't on same circuit as power tools. Finishing
knowledge will be enhance if you bookmark www.homesteadfinishing.com
for Jeff Jewitt, www.targetcoatings.com for Jeff Weiss waterbased
finishes and www.woodfinishingsupplies.com for Russ Ramirez. All have
forums and readily provide guidance and advice. Homestead has search
capability as well as articles. Protect hearing for anybody in the
"shop" wherever it might be. Welcome and work safely!
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:21:47 GMT, "Gerry L" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The room has a single 110 outlet, but
>the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet this
>week.
Our table saw is the heart of our operation. We bought a used (old)
Craftsman (pre-Crapsman) saw. Bought a Vega fence and then the husband made
the most super cabinet. All told, we have about $600 invested.
It doesn't always have to be new.
I realize the stock answer here to the table saw question is to do a google
search (dags). It has been discussed ad nauseum. Just with any tool, you
will have to decide your budget, your needs, find some buddies to hang out
with and pick their brains.
Perry
"Kevin French" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gerry L wrote:
> > It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
input
> > on my specifics.
> >
> >
> >
> > Woodworking-wise, I'm a newbie. I had a few woodworking classes in high
> > school/college, and some early exposure to carpentry (I "helped" my dad
> > built an addition to the house when I was a younger.) But I've never
built
> > a piece of quality furniture.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> > entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> > eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> > envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> > coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> > feel.)
> >
> >
> >
> > On the reality-side, I'm starting my shop in a 14' x 17' maintenance
room of
> > my apartment building. (My wife manages the apartment complex we live
in,
> > so I have free reign of the room.) The room has a single 110 outlet,
but
> > the maintenance guy is helping me install a 220 and another 110 outlet
this
> > week. I have an odd assortment of tools (a drill, a handsaw, some
clamps,
> > levels, squares, wrenches, etc. and a good shopvac.) but otherwise I'm
> > starting from scratch.
> >
> >
> >
> > Because I don't have any experience sharpening and using woodworking
hand
> > tools (which seems really important) and because I have a ton of other
stuff
> > to learn (wood characteristics, hardware and finishes oh my!), I'm
hoping to
> > reduce the handworking by focusing on accurate cuts in the first place.
I
> > would like to be able to cut joints once and put the pieces together
with
> > minimal to no hand tooling. (I know this is unrealistic to some extent
but
> > I don't know how unrealistic.) If I focus on making good measurements
and I
> > buy an accurate table saw, is this a reasonable expectation?
> >
> >
> >
> > Based on the reviews I've seen, web searches, etc, and a lot of reading
in
> > this news group, I think the following table saws might satisfy my
> > requirements. (With any one of these, I would take a 30" fence, add a
> > mobile base, a router table extension and a Forrest WWII blade.)
> >
> >
> >
> > In order of preference:
> >
> >
> >
> > General International 50-850 ($649)
> >
> > Grizzly G1023SL ($895) - cabinet
> >
> > Grizzly G1022PROZX ($645)
> >
> > Powermatic 64A ($750)
> >
> >
> >
> > Price is an issue but it's a close second to my desire to turn projects
out
> > successfully.
> >
> >
> >
> > From what I've gathered, I'm tending toward the GI 50-850. I have a
local
> > General/Powermatic distributor, which would make proper adjustment
easier to
> > obtain (get their help, resolve problems, etc), and the distributor
claims
> > the GI 50-850 is the same unit as the Powermatic 64a, just better
priced.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, I've read a lot of good comments in this group about
> > Grizzly and there's always a lot of hoopla for cabinet saws. Given the
> > price of the G1023, it perks my interest (if not my wallet).
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> > many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > -Another wannabe
> >
> >
>
> DAGS
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&group=rec.woodworking
>
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Gerry L wrote:
> > It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your
input
> > on my specifics.
>
>
> This is either a very productive troll or genuine.
>
> Cool.
>
I'd resemble that remark if I wasn't a Tolkien fan.
>
> >
> > Ultimately, I would like to build cabinets, bureaus, bookcases, an
> > entertainment center, desks, etc. I'm not a home owner yet but will
> > eventually buy a mass-produced home (as opposed to building myself) and
> > envision adding the finishing work (wood trims, built-in cabinets,
> > coordinated furniture, etc.) to give it a more, architectural-designer
> > feel.)
>
> .......
>
> >
> > Can you give me any feedback or comparisons on these saws? I didn't see
> > many comments about the GI in this forum. What do you think of it?
>
>
>
> For what you describe as being your immediate plans you could use my #3
> saw, a Rockwell 9" from the mid 60's.
>
> After getting over the difficulty of obtaining 9" blades with 5/8 arbor
> she is a sweetheart. Worm gear trunion, extensions (such as they are), a
> Rockwell fence sufficient for 'rough cut' without needing to indicate it
> to spec, and easily passes the 'nickel test' with a lawnmower belt and
> Irwin blade.
>
> LMAO.
>
You must be laughing at me because I'm still thinking about the worms.
> Has the Rockwell base with retractable wheels.
>
> Gloat?
>
> Won it with a bid of $110.
>
> Buy Used.
>
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm a big fan for buying used. But I just don't have
the comfort factor on this.
>
> Brought it home, reinstalled and aligned the fence, cut a board.
>
> After having this saw for a few months went to another auction, an off
> brand 10" cabinet saw went for $25. If I didn't already have a rough cut
> saw (Saw #1, Craftsman 10", $30 plus clean/ tune) this saw would have
> went for a bit more.
>
> Buy used.
>
> I would have got this last saw if I could have justified it to myself.
> Wife would have no trouble with it. I left it go for $25 because the
> winning bidder looked like he needed it more than I. To do it right it
> would have needed taken apart, cleaned, lubed and reassembled. That's
> par for the course.
>
Now you're gloating!
>
>
> 14' x 17' isn't bad for a shop. Under your conditions it's really sort
> of good. Lots of people here would love that much dedicated space.
>
> See if the electrician will run a sub panel for you.
>
I know bits but not electrons. The maintenance guy and I will be installing
the run on Thursday. We're setting the pipe and pulling the wire and will
have an electrician hook it up. Do you know what wire we need to pull to
prep this? I take it this would be to hook up additional outlets easily.
> Just occurred to me, you may have access to 3 phase. Be surprised how
> cheap 3 phase equipment can go, not many people have it or are willing
> to get it.
>
> Anyway you look at it you have a 'no voltage drop' situation, enjoy it.
>
It's nice to be the manager's side-kick...you get to stretch the
rules...free rent & utilities...
Gloat?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark
>
> N.E. Ohio
>
>
> Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
> A.K.A. Mark Twain)
>
> When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
> suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
>
Forget the TS, buy a RAS!
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Gerry L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> It looks like this is the monthly question, but I'd love to get your input
> on my specifics.
>
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, Rumpty <[email protected]> wrote:
>>My opinion, and the vast majority of other woodworkers, is just the
> complete
> opposite of yours...
>
> That's too bad.
Dad has a Craftsman RAS ('70's vintage). When it's well-tuned, there's
nothing I like better for crosscutting and short dados.
When it's time to rip, I even like my Delta benchtop better.
But regardless, I've not seen any RASs available nowadays within my saw
budget that I'd look twice at.
OTOH, if I win the lottery, that Delta 14" looks pretty good.
> On a serious note, a good used DeWalt, i.e. 7790, GWI, will out perform
> "ANY" TS.
> Rumpty
>
======================
Rumpty:
We all know you LOVE your RAS and thats fine.. !
I have to wonder however what you would say if you were NOT making a SERIOUS
comment...
My opinion, and the vast majority of other woodworkers, is just the complete
opposite of yours...
Bob Griffiths