krw <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I don't. I spread my feet. It's easier to pick it up off the floor,
> when there is time to figure out the best strategy. This comes with
> fifty years experience with a soldering iron. ;-)
>
Wearing flip-flops quite a bit and soldering (yes, I do wear them when
soldering... but they're usually safely tucked away under a table) tends to
encourage the "just let it drop" response. :-)
Ethical question for woodworkers: If you just spent 8 hours tuning a plane
and it drops, is it ok to risk injury to yourself to prevent injury to the
tool?
Puckdropper
--
There are approximately 1 kind of person in the world.
"Greg G." wrote:
> There are some pretty smart, interesting people here but if you
> think
> it's bad here try visiting an engineering group. Yowza! ;)
By definition engineers are trained to never make a decision but to
keep "massaging" a project forever trying to "improve" the end result.
One of the reasons I walked away from it.
Lew
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan Coby wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in
>>> California they require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the
>>> internet to ensure "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance"
>>> then they pull your driver's license because people with untreated
>>> sleep apnea are more likely to have accidents.
>>
>> I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! Why do
>> people make up this stuff?
>>
>> BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor
>> prescribed CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
>
> Perhaps I was misinformed. I asked of a manufacturer why on God's earth
> anybody would want a CPAP with Internet access and was informed that it
> was
> so that doctors in California could monitor compliance per the state law
> requiring that people who are not using their CPAP be reported. Perhaps
> the
> salesman made it up on the spot.
>
It must be failing eyesight. But I swore that everybody was talking about a
CRAP machine. Oh well, I wasn't far off.
In article <[email protected]>, Greg G.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> installed.
Oh, F*ck
We had that conversation a LONG time ago. Let's not have it again.
A safety story (from a 50 year old who has his share of scars but all
his digits):
My son is 14. When he was about three, we were sitting out in the back
yard building a robot costume for him from a few cardboard boxes. SWMBO
wanted to do some work so I handed her my Swiss Army Knife with large
blade extended. She did some cutting of boxen (easily, as I know the
most dangerous knife is a dull one. All my knives are kept SHARP.
Nick, the 3-year-old, reached over and started to grab the blade of the
knife.
I don't know how I knew she was going to try to jerk it out of his
closed fist, I just did. I seized her wrist and his simultaneously and
said "LOOK at what you're about to do!"
She went white and let go of the knife at he same time I sunk a thumb
into his arm and made him release his grip.
It's AMAZING what a quick hit of adrenaline can do.
Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> said:
>krw <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> I don't. I spread my feet. It's easier to pick it up off the floor,
>> when there is time to figure out the best strategy. This comes with
>> fifty years experience with a soldering iron. ;-)
>>
>
>Wearing flip-flops quite a bit and soldering (yes, I do wear them when
>soldering... but they're usually safely tucked away under a table) tends to
>encourage the "just let it drop" response. :-)
>
>Ethical question for woodworkers: If you just spent 8 hours tuning a plane
>and it drops, is it ok to risk injury to yourself to prevent injury to the
>tool?
I'd say that's where the not-so-common common sense comes into play.
If you can grab it at the handle or body and avoid the blade, do it,
if not, don't. And if you're not sure, don't. Put a padded mat under
your workbench.
Greg G.
On Nov 14, 5:07=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Greg G. wrote:
> > John Grossbohlin said:
>
> >> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> charlie said:
>
> >>>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputa=
...
>
> >>> Ouch! =A0 Well, let's see...
> >>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
> >>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
> >>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>
> >>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
> >>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>
> >> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
> >> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
> >> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
> >> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
> >> small saw I clamped it down.
>
> > Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
> > cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>
> > One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
> > was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>
> > Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> > installed.
>
> Women often wear skirts. =A0When they drop something their conditioned
> response is to spread their legs and catch it on the skirt. =A0Men do not=
wear
> skirts (except in Scotland and Greece) and their conditioned response is =
to
> put their legs together to catch it. =A0Any man who has dropped a needle =
knows
> why the female strategy is superior.
>
> There is a lesson here somewhere but damned if I know what it is.
It is that someone has read Tom Sawyer. Or was it Huckleberry Finn?
Luigi
charlie said:
>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>
Ouch! Well, let's see...
A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
What do you think this is going to cost?
I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
before he set the saw up there.
What, no pictures?
Greg G.
Bill said:
>
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Ed Pawlowski said:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
>>>> person, or one party.
>>>
>>>That is very true, but this guy is not helping at all, he is making them
>>>worse with wild spending. He's already making Clinton look good and may
>>>even make Carter look good.
>>
>> I'm not happy about much of the spending either, but you have to
>> remember, the bailouts have to be paid back. Some already have been,
>> and the stimulus money is already going into road and infrastructure
>> repairs in my area. It had to be paid for one way or another...
>> Is it a permanent fix? Not even close. We've been outsourced.
>
>Yes, said. It's been a long time coming. Of course, we don't seem to have
>the "restraint" to "pay back" anything. We'll deflate the currency.... I
>need
>to buy a car now and I notice that they cost alot more than they did last
>time
>around--and my salary has not went up (even close to) the same rate...
Tell me about it. Been through three different professions that were
supposed to be" recession proof." They weren't. I guarantee you if
we started importing cheap lawyers and politicians it would all change
_overnight_.
Greg G.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tell me about it. Been through three different professions that were
> supposed to be" recession proof." They weren't. I guarantee you if
> we started importing cheap lawyers and politicians it would all change
> _overnight_.
>
If we imported cheap lawyers, we would have even more litigation. Cheap
lawyers aren't the answer. I have been working at his message for a while,
and I've come to the conclusion that I don't have lots of answers. I do
generally believe that economic principles will prevail. I don't like alot
of what I see.
Bill
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:33:11 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
>on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
>posts frequently number 150 posts.
Nothing unusual about that. Woodworking replies within reason are
relatively limited. OT posts can be virtually unlimited.
On Nov 13, 7:34=A0pm, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Greg G. wrote:
> > John Grossbohlin said:
>
> >> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> charlie said:
>
> >>>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputa=
...
>
> >>> Ouch! =A0 Well, let's see...
> >>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
> >>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
> >>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>
> >>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
> >>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
> >> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with wa=
s
> >> using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
> >> sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his ef=
fort.
> >> I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it=
down.
>
> > Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
> > cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>
> > One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
> > was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>
> > Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> > installed.
>
> > Greg G.
>
> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
> 'cause I might hurt myself?
>
> I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
They use hand saws. :-)
Luigi
On 2009-11-14 16:55:32 -0500, Michael Kenefick <[email protected]> said:
> My wife's CPAP has an ethernet looking port on it. Maybe it could be
> true? I asked what it was for they they stated it was for updates.
Yes, there is an ethernet port. Yes, the doctor can read your usage
from the machine. Yes, the dispensary can apply updates.
There's not a lot of granularity to the data captured by the machine --
time is use is recorded, but it may only be that the machine was on X
hours and X minutes during day X. Most likely, the doc is gonna say
"Oh, you're getting an average of 7 hours and 35 minutes (to make up a
number), and you're using the machine 99% of the time (i.e., almost
daily). Keep it up."
And then they'll say, "Do you need any filters? You know insurance will
pay for a new hose and headgear every six months? Oh, well if you don't
want that, how about some new nasal pillows? Insurance will pay for
those every three months!"
Occam's razor would suggest that the monitoring is most often used to
keep you coming back, and to keep you getting billable supplies.
BTW, my weekends greatly skew my average daily use numbers!
J. Clarke wrote:
> Dan Coby wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in
>>> California they require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the
>>> internet to ensure "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance"
>>> then they pull your driver's license because people with untreated
>>> sleep apnea are more likely to have accidents.
>> I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! Why do
>> people make up this stuff?
>>
>> BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor
>> prescribed CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
>
> Perhaps I was misinformed. I asked of a manufacturer why on God's earth
> anybody would want a CPAP with Internet access and was informed that it was
> so that doctors in California could monitor compliance per the state law
> requiring that people who are not using their CPAP be reported. Perhaps the
> salesman made it up on the spot.
I did a little googling and I did verify that there are CPAP machines that
will do remote status updates via a modem and phone lines. However that is
a long way from a state law that requires monitoring and pulling one's
drivers license.
I continue to be amazed and amused by the various claims, mostly from the
right, about how California regulates our life.
Ed Pawlowski said:
>
>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
>> person, or one party.
>
>That is very true, but this guy is not helping at all, he is making them
>worse with wild spending. He's already making Clinton look good and may
>even make Carter look good.
I'm not happy about much of the spending either, but you have to
remember, the bailouts have to be paid back. Some already have been,
and the stimulus money is already going into road and infrastructure
repairs in my area. It had to be paid for one way or another...
Is it a permanent fix? Not even close. We've been outsourced.
Greg G.
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>>> Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer. Psalm
>>> 109:8".
>>>
>>> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
>>>
>>
>> We can hope but he will very likely be reelected.
>
>
>
>
> I gather you really would like to see S. Palin up there on capital hill,
> huh????
Pracicing your mind reading again? Give it up. you're not very good at it.
> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
> person, or one party.
Show me where I said anything about blaming anyone. In any case, blame for
what?
Nope, Kreskin you're not.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlie said:
>
>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>
>
> Ouch! Well, let's see...
> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
> What do you think this is going to cost?
>
> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
> before he set the saw up there.
Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
John
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:46:45 -0500, the infamous "Bill"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Tell me about it. Been through three different professions that were
>> supposed to be" recession proof." They weren't. I guarantee you if
>> we started importing cheap lawyers and politicians it would all change
>> _overnight_.
I find it hard to believe that it could get worse, and I'm waiting for
TAR 2.0 to happen. (The American public seems to be gearing up for a
second revolution, and I'm guessing that something like this Obamacare
bill will be the catalyst to give 'em the critical mass necessary to
explode into it. Got weapons, ammo, and a bunker? How's your pantry
stocked?
>If we imported cheap lawyers, we would have even more litigation. Cheap
>lawyers aren't the answer. I have been working at his message for a while,
>and I've come to the conclusion that I don't have lots of answers. I do
>generally believe that economic principles will prevail. I don't like alot
>of what I see.
Putting a season on lawyers would help a whole lot. Can you imagine
what people would pay for a lawyer tag this next hunting season? <evil
grinne>
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
[email protected] said:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:33:11 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
>>on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
>>posts frequently number 150 posts.
>
>Nothing unusual about that. Woodworking replies within reason are
>relatively limited. OT posts can be virtually unlimited.
They do tend to meander quite a bit, jump into sub threads and various
flame wars. Not a complaint, just an observation.
And here I thought everyone was asleep as I sit here with this:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/Remember.jpg
watching Southpark in a tiny window, messing with SolidWorks, and
deciding what to do on yet another birthday.
Greg G.
Lew Hodgett said:
>
>"Greg G." wrote:
>
>> There are some pretty smart, interesting people here but if you
>> think
>> it's bad here try visiting an engineering group. Yowza! ;)
>
>By definition engineers are trained to never make a decision but to
>keep "massaging" a project forever trying to "improve" the end result.
>
>One of the reasons I walked away from it.
And the bean counters don't help much in that regard either.
Greg G.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>>> Greg G. wrote:
>>>>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> charlie said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the
>>>>>>> cooler before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire
>>>>>>> some up...)
>>>>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked
>>>>>> with was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table
>>>>>> while he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers
>>>>>> off during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I
>>>>>> used a small saw I clamped it down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an
>>>>> absolute cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several
>>>>> fingers.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>>>>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>>>>> installed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg G.
>>>>
>>>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop"
>>>> tablesaw 'cause I might hurt myself?
>>>
>>> You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
>>> treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our
>>> behavior
>>> to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this
>>> with seat belt laws and the like.
>>
>> There are already medical funding proposals in play to identify gun
>> owners
>> as engaged in dangerous activities so their coverage should be
>> limited. If
>> that succeeds how long would it take to move on to power tools? In
>> terms of
>> overall medical costs though there would very likely be more bang for
>> the
>> buck to stem provider fraud... it's far more rampant than you would
>> imagine
>> though the vast majority of it would never make headlines.
>>
>> The recently released genetic study where they found that folks
>> carrying a
>> particular gene do 20% worse while driving is another slippery
>> slope...
>> They're probably the same population most likely to have shop
>> accidents.
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091028134637.htm
>>
>> There may be a solution here... DNA test everyone and if you carry
>> the gene
>> you MUST buy a Saw Stop. ;~)
>
> Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in California
> they
> require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the internet to ensure
> "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance" then they pull your
> driver's
> license because people with untreated sleep apnea are more likely to have
> accidents.
>
> Since most cases of sleep apnea are detected by the patient who then goes
> to
> the doctor for confirmation, I wonder just how productive that legislation
> really is. I mean knowing that being monitored by the government for the
> rest of your life was a likely outcome, would _you_ seek treatment for it?
Same deal with behavioral health... the centralized medical database will
allow for data mining to identify people who are a threat to themselves or
others... any kind of depression (post partum, loss of a child or life
partner) or menstrual cycle mood swings could flag someone. With the result
being restrictions on civil rights and privileges such as gun ownership,
access to jobs, etc. Easiest way to not have this problem is to not seek
treatment. Given that people have committed suicide with a bandsaw (recall
that thread!) and nail guns, woodshop prohibitions could be targeted too.
All kinds of slippery slopes with government monitoring... Orwell was wrong
only in his timing.
John
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
> person, or one party.
That is very true, but this guy is not helping at all, he is making them
worse with wild spending. He's already making Clinton look good and may
even make Carter look good.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bill said:
>
>>... FAR too argumentative for me. I was just passing by, and I'll be
>>by-passing this topic.
>>Ya'll enjoy yourselves.
>
> Well, Bill. Some of us old curmudgeons can be rather abrasive, don't
> let it get to you. A thick skin helps when hanging around the wreck's
> virtual water cooler.
>
> I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
> on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
> posts frequently number 150 posts.
>
Might be because everything is so finite in woodworking vs., in this case,
party politics which should cause extreme cognitive dissonance if folks
stopped to think about the inconsistencies in their positions. ;~)
John
Greg G. wrote:
> John Grossbohlin said:
>
>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> charlie said:
>>>
>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>
>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>
>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
>> using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
>> sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
>> I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
>
> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>
> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>
> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> installed.
>
>
> Greg G.
So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
'cause I might hurt myself?
I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rusty wrote:
>> 3 friends have lost fingers from saws
>> 1 had his fingers other side of blade kickback dragged fingers into blade
>> 2 was cutting big piece of plywood and it started to flip up off blade he
>> pushed it back down fingers onto blade
>
> I'm guessing he had the saw guard off.
As do most people.
J. Clarke wrote:
> Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in California they
> require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the internet to ensure
> "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance" then they pull your driver's
> license because people with untreated sleep apnea are more likely to have
> accidents.
I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! Why do people
make up this stuff?
BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor prescribed
CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
Dan
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> Greg G. wrote:
>>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>>
>>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> charlie said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
>>>> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
>>>> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
>>>> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
>>>> small saw I clamped it down.
>>>
>>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>>> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>>
>>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>>
>>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>>> installed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg G.
>>
>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
>> 'cause I might hurt myself?
>
> You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
> treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our
> behavior
> to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this with seat
> belt laws and the like.
>
Doubtless, you'll see more of it as well, regardless of whether you get
government control of medical treatment or not.
Rant mode ON.
We live in a "Nanny State" with a bureaucracy that wants to exercise control
over every minute aspect of our daily lives and fund their administration of
these laws by fines, in the certain knowledge that most of us will break
these laws. Increasingly draconian speed limits,
workplace legislation, seatbelt laws, helmet laws, smoking laws, - the list
is endless. I will never attempt to deny that all of these interferences do
save or extend lives. So .........??? They have the right to define that
for us because ...........???
Why not then take it to it's logical extension and ban everybody from
getting out of bed in the morning. That will stop the road toll overnight.
Stop workplace injuries and deaths, stop us from polluting the environment
by burning fuel. No, they wouldn't do that, no revenue in it for the
thieving bastards.
We are legislating for mediocrity, the great Aussie tradition of ''ave a go,
mate, " is now no longer acceptable. Someone might get hurt. Can't have
that. Years back, when I started my earthmoving business, I would load up my
40 ton bulldozer on the float, and head off into the outback by myself, for
three to four weeks at a time, often illegally transporting my machine at
night between job locations. mainly digging gravel pits for road surfacing
for outback shires. Sometimes 200 miles from human habitation.I slept under
the stars in a swag, ate tinned food or game that I shot, and had 88 gallons
of fresh water to last me for up to 4 weeks. If I injured myself and
couldn't drive out, then I would almost certainly die. No phone, no contact
with the outside world. Breaking lots of laws, but evryone turned a blind
eye in those days, otherwise the job wouldn't get done. Them's the risks. I
worked whatever hours I wanted, (Generally 18 hrs/day, on odd occasions, 36
hrs straight.) I had a ball, made a lot of money, got the job done and
everyone was happy.
Today, no-one is permitted to do that. I would need two escort vehicles,
mobile accommodation, long distance comms, permits for everything
imaginable, only move the machine in daylight, and work no longer than 14
hours in a day for a maximum of 13 days straight. - the list is endless.
Those Shires would now be legally responsible to ensure that I complied with
the regs.
Rant mode off.
I just poured a large Bundy Rum. Drank it.
I feel better now : )
diggerop
On Nov 14, 11:33=A0am, Dan Coby <[email protected]> wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in California=
they
> > require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the internet to ensure
> > "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance" then they pull your driv=
er's
> > license because people with untreated sleep apnea are more likely to ha=
ve
> > accidents.
>
> I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! =A0Why do p=
eople
> make up this stuff?
>
> BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor presc=
ribed
> CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
>
> Dan
Further proof that the internet is the best possible source to spread
lies at the speed of light.
RonB
diggerop said:
>"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
>> treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our
>> behavior
>> to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this with seat
>> belt laws and the like.
>>
>
>
>Doubtless, you'll see more of it as well, regardless of whether you get
>government control of medical treatment or not.
>Rant mode ON.
>We live in a "Nanny State" with a bureaucracy that wants to exercise control
>over every minute aspect of our daily lives and fund their administration of
>these laws by fines, in the certain knowledge that most of us will break
>these laws. Increasingly draconian speed limits,
>workplace legislation, seatbelt laws, helmet laws, smoking laws, - the list
>is endless. I will never attempt to deny that all of these interferences do
>save or extend lives. So .........??? They have the right to define that
>for us because ...........???
>Why not then take it to it's logical extension and ban everybody from
>getting out of bed in the morning. That will stop the road toll overnight.
>Stop workplace injuries and deaths, stop us from polluting the environment
>by burning fuel. No, they wouldn't do that, no revenue in it for the
>thieving bastards.
>We are legislating for mediocrity, the great Aussie tradition of ''ave a go,
>mate, " is now no longer acceptable. Someone might get hurt. Can't have that.
snip...
We're already there. And then some.
One reason I want to move to a sparsely populated area.
And as you say, it's primarily about revenue generation.
I'm more of a Darwinian myself, as long as what I do doesn't harm
others, or interfere with their land or rights - what few are left.
>I just poured a large Bundy Rum. Drank it.
>I feel better now : )
I'd join you, but if'n I started doing that at home alone I'd end up
an alcoholic from watching the news...
Greg G.
Bill said:
>... FAR too argumentative for me. I was just passing by, and I'll be
>by-passing this topic.
>Ya'll enjoy yourselves.
Well, Bill. Some of us old curmudgeons can be rather abrasive, don't
let it get to you. A thick skin helps when hanging around the wreck's
virtual water cooler.
I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
posts frequently number 150 posts.
There are some pretty smart, interesting people here but if you think
it's bad here try visiting an engineering group. Yowza! ;)
Greg G.
tool that can in any way injure.
>
> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> installed.
>
> Greg G.
I suspect that is exactly what the government will do someday. But
not until they have over-specified a good safety feature into a $5,000
government kludged mess.
Be careful what you pray for!
RonB
[email protected] said:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:11:36 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>>They do tend to meander quite a bit, jump into sub threads and various
>>flame wars. Not a complaint, just an observation.
>
>Be pretty damned boring otherwise. Hell, look at all the laughs we
>would have missed if all diggerop talked about is wood. :)
Aye, mate. He'd be a bloody good bloke to down a few stubbies with.
I've passed a joke or two along to the local bar maids. It's truly a
colorful menagerie. :)
Greg G.
Greg G. wrote:
> Lew Hodgett said:
>
>> Greg G." wrote:
>>
>>> And the bean counters don't help much in that regard either.
>>
>> Bean counters AKA: Product Planning
>>
>> A major part of the American automotive industries' problem.
>
> They've a lot of problems at this point. It seems as of late that they
> spend more time modifying and moving minor parts around than building
> durability and ease of maintenance into their products. Stylists on
> steroids, 1000 different plastic lamp assemblies, late getting on
> board with efficiency and mileage improvements, fit and finish issues.
>
> We used to have both GM and Ford assembly plants here, and I've been
> in both. I remember when GM first retrofitted the Doraville plant
> with robotics to construct a new Oldsmobile model. Yet the Camry ate
> it for lunch in performance, mileage, comfort, and durability. The
> cost of living in this country, and thus the cost of labor, are
> killing us in the world markets we now have to compete in - which
> includes the US. The plant closed in early 2009, after GM spent $150
> million upgrading it in 2003, and most of the workers fled to other
> plants around the country, one commenting that they felt like gypsies.
> Many were foreclosed on when the plants shut down and they were unable
> to replace the $28/hour pay. The plant now sits idle with weeds
> reclaiming the pavement and GM refuses to sell at less than prime
> rates in a depressed market. Where's Ed Cole when you need him?
> http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/ga/2009/16/articles/ex_doraville_gm_workers_scatter_like_gypsies.html
>
> Similarly, the Ford Hapeville Assembly Plant ceased production in
> October 2006. The city was attempting to revitalize the area but the
> housing and economy bust shelved any concrete plans.
>
> I simply don't see how anyone realistically expects us to compete with
> 50 cent an hour workers and countries who have no safety concerns,
> pollution standards, or labor laws. CEO's in this country are now
> complaining about publicity over the child labor they exploit in the
> third world to produce products they import.
>
> Who is going to buy anything when they have no jobs or income?
> WalMart doesn't cut it, everyone can't be an attorney or doctor, and
> much of the manual labor "services industry" stuff has been taken over
> by immigrant labor - with the tacit assistance of business. Phone
> support, computer programming outsourced. IBM has an entire line of
> CAD products produced in India.
India? I thought IBM's CAD product was Catia, which is a product of Avions
Marcel Dassault.
> Man, things sure were a lot simpler 30 years ago...
The thing is, we can't compete on the world market for stuff that doesn't
require special expertise to make. There isn't any good short term
solution--if we close the borders the rest of the world will do the same and
the market for US goods and services will disappear. Long term we have to
encourage innovation instead of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
In many ways the US is one of the _least_ innovative countries in the
world--look at aerospace--the Russians brought five designes to completion
to our one--yes, our best were and are better than their best, but they were
trying stuff that we weren't. We've been talking about Wing In Ground
Effect for decades, they've been flying them for decades. How about
shipbuilding--why is the fastest ship in the world made in Australia?
Consumer electronics--how is is that the Japanese grasped the concept that
"good enough" consumer video would sell and then brought VHS and Beta to
market, while Ampex, which was technologically capable of doing that as far
back as the '60s, never _tried_ it? And a little Japanese vacuum bottle
that is absolutely brilliant--the inside is exactly sized so that you can
drop a can of soda or beer into it and keep the can cold for hours. Thermos
could have made that at any time during their history so why didn't anybody
think to _try_ it? The thing that put Japanese consumer electronics on the
map wasn't cheap stuff, it was an expensive little 12-inch TV that could run
off the lighter plug in a car--everybody who saw those first little Sonys
was fascinated by them and the US electronics industry had _nothing_ like
that. Even stupid little bric-a-brac--I've got a set of little LED lights
that stick to your fingertips with rubber bands that are good for
light-painting and make a fun stocking stuffer (unfortunately the rubber
bands that come with them suck but rubber bands aren't hard to find) that
some US company could have been making ages ago.
I don't know why this is the case--just that it is. We don't encourage
companies to bring high-risk products to market, we don't encourage basic
research, we don't encourage applied research, and we keep moaning and
groaning about how other countries do a better job of "science education"
while most people who graduate with technical degrees end up either teaching
school or doing something unrelated to their degree.
And then there's general incompetence--I remember the materials people at
Enormous Aerospace telling us that we couldn't use this or that or the other
because it made seals swell--one day somebody asked the materials guy why we
cared if it made seals swell, and he replied "because it indicates that
there is something going on that could potentially degrade the seal".
Wasn't until I had left that industry that I found out that the tests the
idiots were using came from the automotive industry and the purpose of the
test wasn't to find out _if_ the seals swell but to make sure that they
swelled by the _right_ _amount_ and that all the stuff that the idiots had
been telling us that we couldn't use made the seals swell because it was
_supposed_ to make the seals swell. But it's not just big business--I used
to work for a woman who had visions of becoming a software vendor--the
trouble is that she didn't know squat about the computer industry or about
software and she thought that she could play for cheap with something that
had started out as a simple little program to do one stupid thing, and grown
into an unmaintainable monster by adding this feature and that feature and
the other feature until it was a few hundred thousand lines of code.
Sorry for the rant.
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> said:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:11:36 -0500, the infamous Greg
>G.<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>[email protected] said:
>>
>>>On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:33:11 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
>>>>on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
>>>>posts frequently number 150 posts.
>>>
>>>Nothing unusual about that. Woodworking replies within reason are
>>>relatively limited. OT posts can be virtually unlimited.
>>
>>They do tend to meander quite a bit, jump into sub threads and various
>>flame wars. Not a complaint, just an observation.
>>
>>And here I thought everyone was asleep as I sit here with this:
>>http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/Remember.jpg
>>watching Southpark in a tiny window, messing with SolidWorks, and
>>deciding what to do on yet another birthday.
>
>HBD, ya damned lush.
Yeah, I thought of that. Couple times a year thing, however. Bought
the Bourbon last week under advise from someone in the group, so
thought I give her a whirl. Also thought some might enjoy the
"Remember the Alamo" shot glass picked up somewhere in Texas.
Thanks for the wishes, Larry!
Greg G.
Lew Hodgett said:
>Greg G." wrote:
>
>> And the bean counters don't help much in that regard either.
>
>Bean counters AKA: Product Planning
>
>A major part of the American automotive industries' problem.
They've a lot of problems at this point. It seems as of late that they
spend more time modifying and moving minor parts around than building
durability and ease of maintenance into their products. Stylists on
steroids, 1000 different plastic lamp assemblies, late getting on
board with efficiency and mileage improvements, fit and finish issues.
We used to have both GM and Ford assembly plants here, and I've been
in both. I remember when GM first retrofitted the Doraville plant
with robotics to construct a new Oldsmobile model. Yet the Camry ate
it for lunch in performance, mileage, comfort, and durability. The
cost of living in this country, and thus the cost of labor, are
killing us in the world markets we now have to compete in - which
includes the US. The plant closed in early 2009, after GM spent $150
million upgrading it in 2003, and most of the workers fled to other
plants around the country, one commenting that they felt like gypsies.
Many were foreclosed on when the plants shut down and they were unable
to replace the $28/hour pay. The plant now sits idle with weeds
reclaiming the pavement and GM refuses to sell at less than prime
rates in a depressed market. Where's Ed Cole when you need him?
http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/ga/2009/16/articles/ex_doraville_gm_workers_scatter_like_gypsies.html
Similarly, the Ford Hapeville Assembly Plant ceased production in
October 2006. The city was attempting to revitalize the area but the
housing and economy bust shelved any concrete plans.
I simply don't see how anyone realistically expects us to compete with
50 cent an hour workers and countries who have no safety concerns,
pollution standards, or labor laws. CEO's in this country are now
complaining about publicity over the child labor they exploit in the
third world to produce products they import.
Who is going to buy anything when they have no jobs or income?
WalMart doesn't cut it, everyone can't be an attorney or doctor, and
much of the manual labor "services industry" stuff has been taken over
by immigrant labor - with the tacit assistance of business. Phone
support, computer programming outsourced. IBM has an entire line of
CAD products produced in India.
Man, things sure were a lot simpler 30 years ago...
Greg G.
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:56:36 -0500, the infamous "Ed Pawlowski"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
>> person, or one party.
>
>That is very true, but this guy is not helping at all, he is making them
>worse with wild spending. He's already making Clinton look good and may
>even make Carter look good.
Hell, Shrub and Carter have -already- celebrated that they can no
longer be considered the worst President in the history of the USA.
[No, I won't be voting for Sarah again (actually, it was for McCain),
but YES, I'm buying her book to show my support for her and help her
get out from under the personal debt the fsking Demonrats put her in.
GO SARAH! I just hope she stays out of politics, rooting from the
sidelines instead. It's amazing how much she scares the Demonrats,
huh? Even OUT of office. Har!]
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> Greg G. wrote:
>>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>>
>>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> charlie said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
>>>> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
>>>> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
>>>> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
>>>> small saw I clamped it down.
>>>
>>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>>> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>>
>>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>>
>>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>>> installed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg G.
>>
>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
>> 'cause I might hurt myself?
>
> You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
> treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our
> behavior
> to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this with seat
> belt laws and the like.
There are already medical funding proposals in play to identify gun owners
as engaged in dangerous activities so their coverage should be limited. If
that succeeds how long would it take to move on to power tools? In terms of
overall medical costs though there would very likely be more bang for the
buck to stem provider fraud... it's far more rampant than you would imagine
though the vast majority of it would never make headlines.
The recently released genetic study where they found that folks carrying a
particular gene do 20% worse while driving is another slippery slope...
They're probably the same population most likely to have shop accidents.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091028134637.htm
There may be a solution here... DNA test everyone and if you carry the gene
you MUST buy a Saw Stop. ;~)
John
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:31:29 -0800 (PST), the infamous Luigi Zanasi
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Nov 13, 7:34 pm, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Greg G. wrote:
>> > John Grossbohlin said:
>>
>> >> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>news:[email protected]...
>> >>> charlie said:
>>
>> >>>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputa...
>>
>> >>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>> >>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>> >>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>> >>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>
>> >>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>> >>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>> >> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
>> >> using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
>> >> sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
>> >> I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
>>
>> > Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>> > cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>
>> > One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>> > was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>
>> > Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> > installed.
>>
>> > Greg G.
>>
>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
>> 'cause I might hurt myself?
>>
>> I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
>
>They use hand saws. :-)
Uh, how can a handsaw protect one from a feral tablesaw, Luigi? Feral
saws are QUICK!
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:07:57 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Greg G. wrote:
>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>
>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> charlie said:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>>
>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
>>> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
>>> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
>>> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
>>> small saw I clamped it down.
>>
>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>
>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> installed.
>
>Women often wear skirts. When they drop something their conditioned
>response is to spread their legs and catch it on the skirt. Men do not wear
>skirts (except in Scotland and Greece) and their conditioned response is to
>put their legs together to catch it. Any man who has dropped a needle knows
>why the female strategy is superior.
I don't. I spread my feet. It's easier to pick it up off the floor,
when there is time to figure out the best strategy. This comes with
fifty years experience with a soldering iron. ;-)
>There is a lesson here somewhere but damned if I know what it is.
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:35:54 -0800, the infamous "Nonny"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:c6eafa3c-4eb7-4092-a56e-5be1082de235@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>> tool that can in any way injure.
>>>
>>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop
>>> device
>>> installed.
>>>
>>> Greg G.
>>
>> I suspect that is exactly what the government will do someday.
>> But
>> not until they have over-specified a good safety feature into a
>> $5,000
>> government kludged mess.
>>
>> Be careful what you pray for!
>>
>> RonB
>
>Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer.
>Psalm 109:8".
>
> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
AMEN, Brother!
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> Greg G. wrote:
>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>
>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> charlie said:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>
>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
>>> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
>>> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
>>> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
>>> small saw I clamped it down.
>>
>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>
>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> installed.
>>
>>
>> Greg G.
>
> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
> 'cause I might hurt myself?
You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our behavior
to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this with seat
belt laws and the like.
> I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
By keeping them too poor to own one.
Greg G. wrote:
> John Grossbohlin said:
>
>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> charlie said:
>>>
>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>
>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>
>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with
>> was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while
>> he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off
>> during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I used a
>> small saw I clamped it down.
>
> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>
> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>
> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
> installed.
Women often wear skirts. When they drop something their conditioned
response is to spread their legs and catch it on the skirt. Men do not wear
skirts (except in Scotland and Greece) and their conditioned response is to
put their legs together to catch it. Any man who has dropped a needle knows
why the female strategy is superior.
There is a lesson here somewhere but damned if I know what it is.
>
>
> Greg G.
John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> Greg G. wrote:
>>>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>>>
>>>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> charlie said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the
>>>>>> cooler before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire
>>>>>> some up...)
>>>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked
>>>>> with was using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table
>>>>> while he was sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers
>>>>> off during his effort. I never forgot that story and any time I
>>>>> used a small saw I clamped it down.
>>>>
>>>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an
>>>> absolute cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several
>>>> fingers.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>>>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>>>> installed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greg G.
>>>
>>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop"
>>> tablesaw 'cause I might hurt myself?
>>
>> You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
>> treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our
>> behavior
>> to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this
>> with seat belt laws and the like.
>
> There are already medical funding proposals in play to identify gun
> owners
> as engaged in dangerous activities so their coverage should be
> limited. If
> that succeeds how long would it take to move on to power tools? In
> terms of
> overall medical costs though there would very likely be more bang for
> the
> buck to stem provider fraud... it's far more rampant than you would
> imagine
> though the vast majority of it would never make headlines.
>
> The recently released genetic study where they found that folks
> carrying a
> particular gene do 20% worse while driving is another slippery
> slope...
> They're probably the same population most likely to have shop
> accidents.
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091028134637.htm
>
> There may be a solution here... DNA test everyone and if you carry
> the gene
> you MUST buy a Saw Stop. ;~)
Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in California they
require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the internet to ensure
"compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance" then they pull your driver's
license because people with untreated sleep apnea are more likely to have
accidents.
Since most cases of sleep apnea are detected by the patient who then goes to
the doctor for confirmation, I wonder just how productive that legislation
really is. I mean knowing that being monitored by the government for the
rest of your life was a likely outcome, would _you_ seek treatment for it?
I think we need a Constitutional Amendment to the effect that "all
legislation which is annoying shall be null and void, when there is question
over whether the legislation is annoying, if the judge, clerk of the court,
court reporter, or any single member of the jury is annoyed by it, then it
is annoying".
"Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:oTALm.31175$%[email protected]...
>3 friends have lost fingers from saws
> 1 had his fingers other side of blade kickback dragged fingers into blade
> 2 was cutting big piece of plywood and it started to flip up off blade he
> pushed it back down fingers onto blade
> 3 using chop saw I think he had his hand on far side of blade and as he
> was bringing it down he was pulling back his hand and it touched the blade
> and dragged it in
> Not that things go wrong often but
> I lean way back hands above head when things go wrong I look a little
> girlish and I still have fingernails to paint if I wanted too...
> Also have socialized single payer healthcare here but don't want to use it
> that bad.
>
I think all 3 of those examples are good lessons and I'm going to especially
remember 1 and 2.
Another one, recently mentioned by a
reader in FWW, happened when the reader reached down to turn off his saw and
he still
held his push stick near the blade--and as he leaned over the saw blade
propelled the push stick through
neck (in this case, the result was not as bad as it could have been).
Bill
Rusty wrote:
> 3 friends have lost fingers from saws
> 1 had his fingers other side of blade kickback dragged fingers into blade
> 2 was cutting big piece of plywood and it started to flip up off blade he
> pushed it back down fingers onto blade
I'm guessing he had the saw guard off.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Dan Coby wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in
>> California they require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the
>> internet to ensure "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance"
>> then they pull your driver's license because people with untreated
>> sleep apnea are more likely to have accidents.
>
> I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! Why do
> people make up this stuff?
>
> BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor
> prescribed CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
Perhaps I was misinformed. I asked of a manufacturer why on God's earth
anybody would want a CPAP with Internet access and was informed that it was
so that doctors in California could monitor compliance per the state law
requiring that people who are not using their CPAP be reported. Perhaps the
salesman made it up on the spot.
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Perhaps I was misinformed. I asked of a manufacturer why on God's earth
>> anybody would want a CPAP with Internet access and was informed that it
>> was
>> so that doctors in California could monitor compliance per the state law
>> requiring that people who are not using their CPAP be reported. Perhaps
>> the
>> salesman made it up on the spot.
>>
> It must be failing eyesight. But I swore that everybody was talking about a
> CRAP machine. Oh well, I wasn't far off.
You weren't alone. :-)
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
CW wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Rusty wrote:
>>> 3 friends have lost fingers from saws
>>> 1 had his fingers other side of blade kickback dragged fingers into blade
>>> 2 was cutting big piece of plywood and it started to flip up off blade he
>>> pushed it back down fingers onto blade
>> I'm guessing he had the saw guard off.
>
> As do most people.
>
...which explain most of the lost digits.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>> Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer. Psalm
>> 109:8".
>>
>> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
>>
>
> We can hope but he will very likely be reelected.
I gather you really would like to see S. Palin up there on capital hill,
huh????
IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
person, or one party.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Pawlowski said:
>
>>
>>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
>>> person, or one party.
>>
>>That is very true, but this guy is not helping at all, he is making them
>>worse with wild spending. He's already making Clinton look good and may
>>even make Carter look good.
>
> I'm not happy about much of the spending either, but you have to
> remember, the bailouts have to be paid back. Some already have been,
> and the stimulus money is already going into road and infrastructure
> repairs in my area. It had to be paid for one way or another...
> Is it a permanent fix? Not even close. We've been outsourced.
Yes, said. It's been a long time coming. Of course, we don't seem to have
the "restraint" to "pay back" anything. We'll deflate the currency.... I
need
to buy a car now and I notice that they cost alot more than they did last
time
around--and my salary has not went up (even close to) the same rate...
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer. Psalm
>>>> 109:8".
>>>>
>>>> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
>>>>
>>>
>>> We can hope but he will very likely be reelected.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I gather you really would like to see S. Palin up there on capital hill,
>> huh????
>
> Pracicing your mind reading again? Give it up. you're not very good at it.
>
>
>> IMO, we have too many "issues" in this country to blame them all on one
>> person, or one party.
>
> Show me where I said anything about blaming anyone. In any case, blame for
> what?
> Nope, Kreskin you're not.
>
CW,
You are FAR too argumentative for me. I was just passing by, and I'll be
by-passing this topic.
Ya'll enjoy yourselves.
Bill
[email protected] said:
>> Greg G. said:
>>
>> >Actually, Catia is the IBM line, Dassault Systems is SolidWorks Corp.
>>
>> D'oh! We're both right. I was wrong about IBM, although they
>> apparently have some input and employ a team in India - perhaps it is
>> for the IBM AIX port of Catia 5. BOTH are now products of the French
>> based Dassault Systems. SolidWorks was originated in Massachusetts in
>> 1995, and was bought by Dassault in 1997. Cripes it's hard to keep up
>> with them all. SolidEdge, Pro/Engineer, SolidWorks, Catia, AutoDesk
>> Inventor, Siemens NX, TurboCAD, I-DEAS, Unigraphics, etc.
>> Not too long ago you had AutoCAD, then entry level programs like
>> Generic CADD and TurboCAD, and IMSI something or another.
>
>You forgot CADAM. Both were IBM's at one time (CADAM from Lockheed,
>IIRC), though it looks like CADAM is completely Dassault's now and
>there is some sort of partnership between Dassault and IBM on Catia.
>There is also IBM CAD, which was OK on the desktop but went pretty
>much the way of OS/2.
Microstation, Bricscad, BRL-CAD, form-Z are a few others. The market
is saturated with CAD/CAM software. I've used quite a few different
solutions, but not in depth. Pro/Engineer was probably the first
"affordable" parametric 3D CAD program that gained quite a bit of
popularity against AutoCAD but was a bit slow - I'm thinking that some
versions actually ran under the Java JITC.
SolidWorks built upon some of the basic work flow premises of Pro/E
and is the one (besides AutoCAD and 3DStudioMax) that I am most
familiar with. Transitioning from a 2D drafting program is a bit
intimidating, so it's best to forget all that you know and start from
scratch. The methodology used in Solidworks fit my mindset best and is
an amazing program for the cost. There are plug-ins for quickly
modeling gear-sets (worm, rack and pinion, helical), finite, thermal,
mass and loading/stress analysis, CAM plug-ins for plotting tool paths
and generating G-code for milling, basic PCB and schematic, wire and
pipe routing, sheet metal folding, etc. Being a long time fan of MA
based AutoDesk I would have leaned towards Inventor but there wasn't
as much support although it has been gaining momentum since version 9.
And yes, it can be used to design Woodworking projects, although the
$5k price tag kinda rules that out for most of us... :-o
Anyone interested in free 3D modeling/CAD might check out FreeCAD:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/free-cad/index.php?title=Main_Page
(Work in progress, helps to know Python...)
And for $125 there is TurboCAD 16 Deluxe 2D/3D which is pretty good:
http://www.turbocad.com/TurboCAD/TurboCADWindows/TurboCAD16Deluxe2D3D/tabid/1225/Default.aspx
Anyone expending a modicum of effort can convert this:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/RouterCabinet7l.jpg
Into this:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/RouterCabinet1l.jpg
(It's a router table, BTW...)
Or this:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/SW3AxisMill.jpg
FWIW,
Greg G.
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:49:57 -0500, the infamous Greg
G.<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>John Grossbohlin said:
>
>>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> charlie said:
>>>
>>>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>
>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>>
>>Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
>>using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
>>sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
>>I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
>
>Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>
>One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
Right.
>Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>installed.
Bite your freakin' tongue, Greg. _Never_ give the gov't an excuse to
take power or decisions away from you.
Think DARWIN! Survival of the fittest. Let the stupid ones kill
themselves off.
--
Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS
J. Clarke said:
>Doug Winterburn wrote:
>
>> So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
>> 'cause I might hurt myself?
>
>You laugh. This is one reason why I am against tax-funded medical
>treatment--it gives the government an incentive to micromanage our behavior
>to control expenses. We're already starting to see some of this with seat
>belt laws and the like.
You have a point. But at the same time I appreciated the mandated
_installation_ of seat belts. I used them day one (SCCA exposure),
suffered the ridicule of rednecks by wearing them, but it saved me the
trouble of having to hunt for adequate metal on which to mount them.
Of course, this wasn't a privately patented device being shoved down
my throat by government, and was a fairly inexpensive add-on.
I didn't care for the their mandated _use_, however.
Except, perhaps, for children.
>> I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
>
>By keeping them too poor to own one.
That was my first thought too.
Greg G.
My wife's CPAP has an ethernet looking port on it. Maybe it could be
true? I asked what it was for they they stated it was for updates.
J. Clarke wrote:
<snip>
>
> Perhaps I was misinformed. I asked of a manufacturer why on God's earth
> anybody would want a CPAP with Internet access and was informed that it was
> so that doctors in California could monitor compliance per the state law
> requiring that people who are not using their CPAP be reported. Perhaps the
> salesman made it up on the spot.
>
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:53:49 -0800, the infamous "CW"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>> Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer. Psalm
>> 109:8".
>>
>> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
>>
>
>We can hope but he will very likely be reelected.
SADIST! Go wash your mouth out with soap, you shameless foo!
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
RonB said:
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> installed.
>>
>
>I suspect that is exactly what the government will do someday. But
>not until they have over-specified a good safety feature into a $5,000
>government kludged mess.
>
>Be careful what you pray for!
Well, a determined nibble at best...
I was lurking around when the first protracted and heated arguments
over the Saw Stop device patent holder soliciting government to
require the installation of these device on ALL tablesaws was fresh.
It was a slow Friday night and thought I'd see how many took the bait.
Greg G.
J. Clarke said:
>Greg G. wrote:
>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>
>Women often wear skirts. When they drop something their conditioned
>response is to spread their legs and catch it on the skirt. Men do not wear
>skirts (except in Scotland and Greece) and their conditioned response is to
>put their legs together to catch it. Any man who has dropped a needle knows
>why the female strategy is superior.
>
>There is a lesson here somewhere but damned if I know what it is.
Well, the first lesson that pops to mind is to drop "something" in the
lap of the next good looking woman you meet... ;-)
Greg G.
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> said:
>On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:49:57 -0500, the infamous Greg
>G.<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...) <<<<-------
>>>
>>Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>>installed.
>
>Bite your freakin' tongue, Greg. _Never_ give the gov't an excuse to
>take power or decisions away from you.
Another strike, not sure I can land it however...
>Think DARWIN! Survival of the fittest. Let the stupid ones kill
>themselves off.
I do... ;-)
Greg G.
3 friends have lost fingers from saws
1 had his fingers other side of blade kickback dragged fingers into blade
2 was cutting big piece of plywood and it started to flip up off blade he
pushed it back down fingers onto blade
3 using chop saw I think he had his hand on far side of blade and as he was
bringing it down he was pulling back his hand and it touched the blade and
dragged it in
Not that things go wrong often but
I lean way back hands above head when things go wrong I look a little
girlish and I still have fingernails to paint if I wanted too...
Also have socialized single payer healthcare here but don't want to use it
that bad.
"charlie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>
>
>
Dave Balderstone said:
>In article <[email protected]>, Greg G.
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...) <<<<<<<<<<<<----------
>>...
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> installed.
>
>Oh, F*ck
>
>We had that conversation a LONG time ago. Let's not have it again.
Damn, hooked another one. ;-)
Hey, it was slow so I thought I'd troll for a bit. I remember...
>A safety story (from a 50 year old who has his share of scars but all
>his digits):
>
>My son is 14. When he was about three, we were sitting out in the back
>yard building a robot costume for him from a few cardboard boxes. SWMBO
>wanted to do some work so I handed her my Swiss Army Knife with large
>blade extended. She did some cutting of boxen (easily, as I know the
>most dangerous knife is a dull one. All my knives are kept SHARP.
>
>Nick, the 3-year-old, reached over and started to grab the blade of the
>knife.
>
>I don't know how I knew she was going to try to jerk it out of his
>closed fist, I just did. I seized her wrist and his simultaneously and
>said "LOOK at what you're about to do!"
>
>She went white and let go of the knife at he same time I sunk a thumb
>into his arm and made him release his grip.
>
>It's AMAZING what a quick hit of adrenaline can do.
Bad things can happen so quickly, and with such good intentions.
So you're cool under pressure. Good thing for Nick, eh?
I consider myself lucky that parents had little to do with my
upbringing - I'd surely have not survived otherwise.
Snakes, critters, tools, electricity, 150 foot trees w/antennas,
bikes, cars, and women - all that boy stuff. Only the latter resulted
in any permanent injury. Library good - average adult bad. :-o
Greg G.
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c6eafa3c-4eb7-4092-a56e-5be1082de235@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> tool that can in any way injure.
>>
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop
>> device
>> installed.
>>
>> Greg G.
>
> I suspect that is exactly what the government will do someday.
> But
> not until they have over-specified a good safety feature into a
> $5,000
> government kludged mess.
>
> Be careful what you pray for!
>
> RonB
Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer.
Psalm 109:8".
"May his days be few; and may another take his office."
--
Nonny
What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman's mouth?
The floor is level.
J. Clarke said:
>Greg G. wrote:
>> Who is going to buy anything when they have no jobs or income?
>> WalMart doesn't cut it, everyone can't be an attorney or doctor, and
>> much of the manual labor "services industry" stuff has been taken over
>> by immigrant labor - with the tacit assistance of business. Phone
>> support, computer programming outsourced. IBM has an entire line of
>> CAD products produced in India.
>
>India? I thought IBM's CAD product was Catia, which is a product of Avions
>Marcel Dassault.
Actually, Catia is the IBM line, Dassault Systems is SolidWorks Corp.
>> Man, things sure were a lot simpler 30 years ago...
>
>The thing is, we can't compete on the world market for stuff that doesn't
>require special expertise to make. There isn't any good short term
>solution--if we close the borders the rest of the world will do the same and
>the market for US goods and services will disappear. Long term we have to
>encourage innovation instead of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
>In many ways the US is one of the _least_ innovative countries in the
>world--look at aerospace--the Russians brought five designes to completion
>to our one--yes, our best were and are better than their best, but they were
>trying stuff that we weren't. We've been talking about Wing In Ground
>Effect for decades, they've been flying them for decades. How about
>shipbuilding--why is the fastest ship in the world made in Australia?
>Consumer electronics--how is is that the Japanese grasped the concept that
>"good enough" consumer video would sell and then brought VHS and Beta to
>market, while Ampex, which was technologically capable of doing that as far
>back as the '60s, never _tried_ it? And a little Japanese vacuum bottle
>that is absolutely brilliant--the inside is exactly sized so that you can
>drop a can of soda or beer into it and keep the can cold for hours. Thermos
>could have made that at any time during their history so why didn't anybody
>think to _try_ it? The thing that put Japanese consumer electronics on the
>map wasn't cheap stuff, it was an expensive little 12-inch TV that could run
>off the lighter plug in a car--everybody who saw those first little Sonys
>was fascinated by them and the US electronics industry had _nothing_ like
>that. Even stupid little bric-a-brac--I've got a set of little LED lights
>that stick to your fingertips with rubber bands that are good for
>light-painting and make a fun stocking stuffer (unfortunately the rubber
>bands that come with them suck but rubber bands aren't hard to find) that
>some US company could have been making ages ago.
I've owned some of the things you mention. Large Corporate operations
seem very slow to consider anything out of their already saturated
markets, they have no imagination and are unwilling to take risks.
Can you imagine a car like the Chevy Corvair being produced in this
day and age? For a major US manufacturer, first Unibody, first
turbocharger, first transaxle, first aluminum block/head, first air
cooled horizontally opposed six, independent 4-link suspension ('65
and later), etc. They attacked the market penetration of the likes of
Renault and VW while Ford produce the Falcon which primarily cut into
their own sales of larger sedans. Regardless of what you think about
the car, it made money, and still has aficionados around the world.
The engine is still sought after for airplanes, dune buggies, and
generators. Silly example, perhaps, but an indication of how little
real innovation has occurred since.
And you're right about the VCRs. I owned an Ampex open reel video
recorder back in the early 70s - B&W piece of shit. But it had all the
requisite technology - helical scan, linear sound track, and was sort
of portable. Marketers didn't feel there was a consumer demand and
failed to engineer a compact, easy to use version. They also had
studios and producers wailing in their ears about possible copyright
violations. The Japanese didn't care about all that, certainly did
forge ahead producing tons of VCRs. And TVs, radios, walkmans/discmans
and such.
Timidity is not a survival trait.
>I don't know why this is the case--just that it is. We don't encourage
>companies to bring high-risk products to market, we don't encourage basic
>research, we don't encourage applied research, and we keep moaning and
>groaning about how other countries do a better job of "science education"
>while most people who graduate with technical degrees end up either teaching
>school or doing something unrelated to their degree.
See? ;-) As for the engineers, many probably got sick of the status
quo and general backbiting. ladder climbing corporate crap.
>And then there's general incompetence--I remember the materials people at
>Enormous Aerospace telling us that we couldn't use this or that or the other
>because it made seals swell--one day somebody asked the materials guy why we
>cared if it made seals swell, and he replied "because it indicates that
>there is something going on that could potentially degrade the seal".
>Wasn't until I had left that industry that I found out that the tests the
>idiots were using came from the automotive industry and the purpose of the
>test wasn't to find out _if_ the seals swell but to make sure that they
>swelled by the _right_ _amount_ and that all the stuff that the idiots had
>been telling us that we couldn't use made the seals swell because it was
>_supposed_ to make the seals swell. But it's not just big business--I used
>to work for a woman who had visions of becoming a software vendor--the
>trouble is that she didn't know squat about the computer industry or about
>software and she thought that she could play for cheap with something that
>had started out as a simple little program to do one stupid thing, and grown
>into an unmaintainable monster by adding this feature and that feature and
>the other feature until it was a few hundred thousand lines of code.
We resemble that remark. ;-) But I hear what you are saying.
Actually, I go through a rewrite of our code, compartmentalizing and
removing any redundant code every few months. But added features are
what keeps a product competitive. Bells and whistles sell. Compare
AutoCAD and SolidWorks or SolidEdge or... Light years apart. AutoDesk
did come out with Inventor, but market share had been lost at that
point and competition was aggressive. It's hard to move an installed
base from one system to another once training has been done.
>Sorry for the rant.
No worries, mate. Been there, done that...
Greg G.
Doug Winterburn said:
>Greg G. wrote:
>> John Grossbohlin said:
>>
>>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> charlie said:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>>>
>>>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>>>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>>>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>>>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>>>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...) <<<<<<<<<<<<----------
>>>>
>>> Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
>>> using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
>>> sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
>>> I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
>>
>> Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
>> cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
>>
>> One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
>> was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
>>
>> Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
>> installed.
>>
>> Greg G.
>
>So, now the feds should tell me I can't use my non "Saw Stop" tablesaw
>'cause I might hurt myself?
>
>I wonder how they protect folks from their tablesaws in Cuba?
One... two... three... Hooked.
(Look up to the arrow) ;-)
Greg G.
RonB said:
>On Nov 14, 11:33 am, Dan Coby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>> > Speaking of medical, if you're diagnosed with sleep apnea in California they
>> > require that your doctor monitor your CPAP over the internet to ensure
>> > "compliance" and if you aren't in "compliance" then they pull your driver's
>> > license because people with untreated sleep apnea are more likely to have
>> > accidents.
>>
>> I do hope that you realize that this is absolute bull shit!!! Why do people
>> make up this stuff?
>>
>> BTW I live in California and I have sleep apnea and I have a doctor prescribed
>> CPAP machine and it is not connected to the internet.
>>
>> Dan
>
>Further proof that the internet is the best possible source to spread
>lies at the speed of light.
I certainly was a better place when the domain of educators,
scientists, and... er... MIL contractors?
Greg G.
John Grossbohlin said:
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> charlie said:
>>
>>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/13/20091113abrk-amputation.html
>>>
>>
>> Ouch! Well, let's see...
>> A finger tip costs $16,000 to re-attach.
>> Down to the knuckle runs $27,000.
>> What do you think this is going to cost?
>>
>> I think the problem may have stemmed from what _was_ IN the cooler
>> before he set the saw up there. (SS: this oughta fire some up...)
>
>Many years ago my father told a similar story. A guy he worked with was
>using a table top portable saw and it fell off the table while he was
>sawing... He tried to catch it and sawed his fingers off during his effort.
>I never forgot that story and any time I used a small saw I clamped it down.
Ouch again. The movie Sicko mentions a guy who committed an absolute
cardinal sin while using a small saw and removed several fingers.
One thing I learned as a kid while using soldering irons and knives
was to never grab for a falling tool that can in any way injure.
Maybe the Feds should require all saws to have a Saw Stop device
installed.
Greg G.
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:11:36 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>They do tend to meander quite a bit, jump into sub threads and various
>flame wars. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Be pretty damned boring otherwise. Hell, look at all the laughs we
would have missed if all diggerop talked about is wood. :)
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:11:36 -0500, the infamous Greg
G.<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>[email protected] said:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:33:11 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I do find it interesting that in a group dedicated to woodworking, an
>>>on-topic post garners 1 to 20 replies and yet the much maligned OT
>>>posts frequently number 150 posts.
>>
>>Nothing unusual about that. Woodworking replies within reason are
>>relatively limited. OT posts can be virtually unlimited.
>
>They do tend to meander quite a bit, jump into sub threads and various
>flame wars. Not a complaint, just an observation.
>
>And here I thought everyone was asleep as I sit here with this:
>http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/Remember.jpg
>watching Southpark in a tiny window, messing with SolidWorks, and
>deciding what to do on yet another birthday.
HBD, ya damned lush.
--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
"Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Here in the US, our favorite prayer is called the Obama Prayer. Psalm
> 109:8".
>
> "May his days be few; and may another take his office."
>
We can hope but he will very likely be reelected.
On Nov 16, 12:49=A0pm, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
> Greg G. said:
>
> >J. Clarke said:
>
> >>Greg G. wrote:
>
> >>> CAD products produced in India.
>
> >>India? =A0I thought IBM's CAD product was Catia, which is a product of =
Avions
> >>Marcel Dassault.
>
> >Actually, Catia is the IBM line, Dassault Systems is SolidWorks Corp.
>
> D'oh! =A0We're both right. =A0I was wrong about IBM, although they
> apparently have some input and employ a team in India - perhaps it is
> for the IBM AIX port of Catia 5. =A0BOTH are now products of the French
> based Dassault Systems. SolidWorks was originated in Massachusetts in
> 1995, and was bought by Dassault in 1997. Cripes it's hard to keep up
> with them all. SolidEdge, Pro/Engineer, SolidWorks, Catia, AutoDesk
> Inventor, Siemens NX, TurboCAD, I-DEAS, Unigraphics, etc.
> Not too long ago you had AutoCAD, then entry level programs like
> Generic CADD and TurboCAD, and IMSI something or another.
You forgot CADAM. Both were IBM's at one time (CADAM from Lockheed,
IIRC), though it looks like CADAM is completely Dassault's now and
there is some sort of partnership between Dassault and IBM on Catia.
There is also IBM CAD, which was OK on the desktop but went pretty
much the way of OS/2.
Greg G. said:
>J. Clarke said:
>
>>Greg G. wrote:
>
>>> CAD products produced in India.
>>
>>India? I thought IBM's CAD product was Catia, which is a product of Avions
>>Marcel Dassault.
>
>Actually, Catia is the IBM line, Dassault Systems is SolidWorks Corp.
D'oh! We're both right. I was wrong about IBM, although they
apparently have some input and employ a team in India - perhaps it is
for the IBM AIX port of Catia 5. BOTH are now products of the French
based Dassault Systems. SolidWorks was originated in Massachusetts in
1995, and was bought by Dassault in 1997. Cripes it's hard to keep up
with them all. SolidEdge, Pro/Engineer, SolidWorks, Catia, AutoDesk
Inventor, Siemens NX, TurboCAD, I-DEAS, Unigraphics, etc.
Not too long ago you had AutoCAD, then entry level programs like
Generic CADD and TurboCAD, and IMSI something or another.
And my earlier rant about AutoCAD was somewhat misplaced. While
others went into the parmetric/3D modeling CAD world directly,
AutoDesk entered into it sidways through its early development of
3DStudio/MAX which was oriented towards 3D visual presentation and
video rendering. I've actually got an old copy of the DOS based
3DStudio around here somewhere, along with the IPAS plugins.
Sheese... Took hours to render a scene...
>>> Man, things sure were a lot simpler 30 years ago...
Ditto....
Reading Usenet, eating a pizza, and looking over an EDI 850 spec sheet
do NOT make for a useful contribution to anything. Excuse the typos
and drifting train of thought...
>>And then there's general incompetence--I remember the materials people at
>>Enormous Aerospace telling us that we couldn't use this or that or the other
>>because it made seals swell--one day somebody asked the materials guy why we
>>cared if it made seals swell, and he replied "because it indicates that
>>there is something going on that could potentially degrade the seal".
>>Wasn't until I had left that industry that I found out that the tests the
>>idiots were using came from the automotive industry and the purpose of the
>>test wasn't to find out _if_ the seals swell but to make sure that they
>>swelled by the _right_ _amount_ and that all the stuff that the idiots had
>>been telling us that we couldn't use made the seals swell because it was
>>_supposed_ to make the seals swell.
Hey, I've met engineers who couldn't change a tire, and would turn the
entire process into a consortium of opinions and analysis before
attempting to do so 2 hours later. Just get out of the f'in way
already. :)
And "Enormous Aerospace" is what... NASA? Boeing? Lockheed/Martin?
And the seals you refer to are the O-rings in the shuttle boosters?
Man what a boondoggle that is... I wouldn't ride one of those
inextinguishable sticks of dynamite into space for any amount of
money... And my childhood dream was to be an astronaut! I'm glad we
got something up there, but was disappointed in what we ended up with.
Greg G.