Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
shop.
Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
with me.
Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
I'm looking forward to a shop free of snaking hoses.
Greg
In article <[email protected]>, Groggy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> FYI Larry, in US dollars, McMaster -Carr lists it at $5.97 per foot. I
> used 65 feet. 65 x $5.97 = $388.05
McMaster-Carr and Grainger are industrial sources. In other words,
they're the source for "If you've got to have it RIGHT NOW and the boss
is paying for it, we're your source!"
They've got everything, and can deliver it on the next UPS truck. But
they're not the best source for comparing prices on anything.
Kevin
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:15:13 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
This is my second post within this thread...
I will have to retract (for now) what I said in my first post...at
least until I do a little research on Polyethelene .. PVC is
something I would never use for air lines.. have to withoold
my judgement on polyethelene...
BUT black pipe is still my choice. at this time...
Bob Griffiths
...
.
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>be better off if that line DID leak.
_WHY_ are you posting this alarmist crap ?
It's polyethlene and polypropylene. I've personally installed miles of
this stuff into factories worldwide - perfectly reasonable materials
to use (a little damage prone, compared to steel, but then it doesn't
rust either). Even the gas mains running underneath my street are a
very similar material (higher molecular weight, so it welds better).
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go.
You'd
> be better off if that line DID leak.
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
> [email protected]
>
> Will I go boom today?
> Will I go boom today?
> Two blew up yesterday;
> I haven't pumped today.
>
>
Did you look at his reference material? The product is designed for exactly
the purpose to which he applied it. Polyethylene is NOT PVC.
--
********
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN
<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Groggy wrote:
> >> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
> >> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
> >> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
> >>
> >> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
> >> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
> >> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
> >> with me.
> >>
> >> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
> >> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
> >
> >
> > Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go.
You'd
> > be better off if that line DID leak.
>
> I think the failure mode would be a "burst" rather than a "leak".
> Think shrapnel.
>
Think polyethelene, not PVC.
Over the road trucks use polyethelene tubing for air lines for minor things
like brakes!
We used poly for air lines on machine tools twenty years ago.
Good stuff.
Greg
"Groggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FYI Larry, in US dollars, McMaster -Carr lists it at $5.97 per foot. I
> used 65 feet. 65 x $5.97 = $388.05
>
> Using 126" lengths it is $42.80 per length. I'd need just over 6
> lengths, even then it works out at $264.95.
>
> Then, you need to buy joiners, saddles, tape or hemp, a cutting tool,
> deburrer, reducers etc.
>
>
Better places to buy black pipe than MC, prices are probably 3X of what I
can buy it for.
But for the ease of installation, you did good!
Greg
"Groggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have tested the lines over two days and nights at 150psi. It
> has dropped two pounds and I am wondering if that may be due to
> temperature/settling of the new lines.
>
> Greg (who is rather happy so far)
Where I work we do hydronic floor heat with PEX tubing. When pressure
testing it the tubing will expand slightly. Also temperature changes will
effect the pressures too.
If you have had 150 PSI in it for 48 hours and only dropped 2 PSI, it ain't
leaking!
We do gas piping too. The inspections department requires a 10 minute test
at 25 PSI with NO drop.
Trust me, you have it covered!
Greg
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:20:38 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
>vaguely proposed a theory
>......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>>Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
>>minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
>>shop.
>
>>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>
>My only comment is about their flow rates. AFAICS there was no
>distance given. ??? Makes a lot of difference.
I haven't seen any information of flow rates either. However, the bore
is the same smoothness as PVC so the is very little friction to slow
it down, certainly smoother than pipe.
Advertising blurbs from a number of companies found during a google
claim higher flow rates - without giving specific details.
Greg
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN <[email protected]> wrote:
> Groggy wrote:
>> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>>
>> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>> with me.
>>
>> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
>
> Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
> be better off if that line DID leak.
I think the failure mode would be a "burst" rather than a "leak".
Think shrapnel.
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:32:01 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>>be better off if that line DID leak.
>
> The line is specifically designed for high pressure compressed air and
> does not shatter, it isn't PVC. I took to a one inch offcut with a
> hammer and I only managed to squash it, like hitting copper.
Got a link? I'd like to read about the stuff, I'm tired of
dragging hose around.
In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> I think the failure mode would be a "burst" rather than a "leak".
> Think shrapnel.
There you go thinking again...instead of researching.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:02:47 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> I think the failure mode would be a "burst" rather than a "leak".
>> Think shrapnel.
>
> There you go thinking again...instead of researching.
And yet, when I'm guessing, I say so rather than pretending I'm stating
fact. Ahem.
In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:02:47 -0800, ted harris
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>>> I think the failure mode would be a "burst" rather than a "leak".
>>> Think shrapnel.
>>
>> There you go thinking again...instead of researching.
>
> And yet, when I'm guessing, I say so rather than pretending I'm stating
> fact. Ahem.
So by your philosophy it's easier to go through life guessing rather than
finding out the facts.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Groggy wrote:
>> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>>
>> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>> with me.
>>
>> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
>
>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>be better off if that line DID leak.
Doing a google search turned up nothing in the US quite like this
product, but I did find this:
http://www.garage-pak.com/
This is, I think, aluminum. I turned up one forum where several
complaints were lodged over the high cost. On their web site they
have a link for more information. I used it, and got an email back
saying a rep will contact me. I was unable to locate any 'dealers'.
This may be a good product but I automatically distrust and discount
anyone who isn't up front about their pricing.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> writes:
>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>be better off if that line DID leak.
That looks to basically be PEX pipe. I have PEX in my RV. I just don't
see PEX shattering like PVC. This looks like a good idea if the joints
can be made leak free.
Brian Elfert
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:58:50 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
I wrote:
>>Is that the flexible line used for irrigation?
>
>No Idea Larry.
The thin stuff the sell for irrigation could probably be used
for air. Was yours hard, like PVC, or soft and flexible? I'm
referring to the black (over here) flexible stuff. I'm using
1/2" for my drip irrigation system and 1" for the irrigation
canal to flood the lawn (when the neighbors had the pond.)
It was about $10-20 for a 100' length. Pics here:
http://www.digcorp.com/diy/inst_1.htm
>>>Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>>>associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>>>
>>>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>>
>>Crikey! The same cost in black pipe would have been under $100!
>>I know those are Aussie play dollars, but really, man. ;)
>
>It doesn't rust. Besides Larry, add up the cost of black pipe,
>fittings, tooling, thread cutters etc and I think you'll find the
>difference isn't that great. Assume you don't have the tools - I
Have the plumbing supply shop cut and thread any non-standard lengths.
Buck apiece? Here, the metal and plastic pipe fittings are all about
the same price ($1-2 each) so there wouldn't be much difference. And
pipe comes in pieces sized from flush nipples, 1", 2", 3", 6", 1', 2',
3', 4', and 10' at the smaller stores, 20' at the plumbing supply
shop. It wouldn't be hard to size something without cutting. I assume
you have a simple pipe wrench or a pair of channel locks, which would
be the only specialized tool needed other than the masonry bit for
drilling into concrete walls. I just don't see how they got the gall
to give that awful price to you. Ouch!
>don't. This took me about 6 hrs to install and will take less than 20
>minutes to remove. Black pipe would have taken probably two days with
>a half day to remove. My daily rate is much more than $200.
What, that length of time for sixty five feet worth? I'm talking 1/2
or 3/4-inch pipe here: light, inexpensive, and easy to wrangle.
>I have a 7' 6" ceiling and am 6' 2" - you do the math. Besides I
>already have too much junk over my head, where I can, I use it for
>storage of long pieces of timber.
Gotcha. Anyway, enjoy your new air, Grogs. It sure is handy, innit?
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
Groggy wrote:
> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
> with me.
>
> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
be better off if that line DID leak.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
Will I go boom today?
Will I go boom today?
Two blew up yesterday;
I haven't pumped today.
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 14:00:08 -0500, "No" <[email protected]> wrote:
>thoughts on using copper?
Initial thought is it is too expensive (but I haven't checked prices).
I suggest you look at Lew Hodgett's post earlier in this thread.
cheers,
Groggy
RE: Subject
Having designed and installed a few compressed air distribution for
industrial application, will offer the following:
1) The distribution plumbing is part of the storage system.
2) The larger the pipe used, the slower the air travels down the pipe.
3) The slower the air travels down the pipe, the less water it can carry
to the tool since the air is also cooler.
4) If the air must reverse direction, it will help trapped water drop
out of the air.
5) The less water, the less problems and the longer the life of the
equipment.
Based on the above, consider the following:
1) Find a plumbing supply house or plumbing contractor that will work
with you.
You would be surprised what a case of beer after 5:00 PM can accomplish
if approached in the right manner.
2) Cut a full 20 ft length of 2" pipe (THAT'S RIGHT, 2 INCH PIPE) into
either 4 or 8 equal pieces and thread both ends of each piece as required.
3) Assemble the cut pieces together to reform the 20 ft length using
2"x2"x3/4" reducing tees (2" run x 2" run x 3/4" side).
4) Assemble so that 3/4" openings are all facing the same direction.(I
use nothing but Teflon paste as a pipe dope for threaded pipe)
5) On one end, assemble a 2"x2"2" tee using the side connection.
Assemble so that 2" openings are lined up with the 3/4" openings.
6) Plug the 2" opening that is on the same side as the 3/4" openings.
7) On the opposite 2" opening install a petcock fitting that can be used
as a drain using required reducing bushings.
8) On the opposite end of the 20 ft assembly, install another 2"x2"x2"
tee, exactly as was done on the opposite end.
9) Plug the top opening (3/4" side) with a 2" plug.
10) The bottom fitting will be where the hose from the compressor will
be connected.
11) At each 3/4" side tee opening, install two (2), 3/4" street ells
such that the air must change direction 180 degrees.
12) Hang this assembly using pipe hangers and threaded rod with the 3/4"
side openings facing up and the hole thing pitched about 1 to 12 with
the drain petcock on the low end.
13) Connect tool hoses as required. Plug any unused openings.
14) Connect the compressor to the pipe using at least a 3/4" hose. (You
may have to have this hose made up, is so, use 1") Don't be surprised if
this isn't the most expensive item in the system.
You have just accomplished several things:
1) Storage capacity is increased about 3.25 gallons for every 20 ft of
2" pipe installed which has lots of benefits. When it comes to storage,
more is better.
2) The pipe serves as a great water trap as well as delivering cooler
air to the tool. (The secret is the reversal of the air and the size of
the pipe)
3) All tool hoses hang straight down thus reducing stress reversals of
the hose.
4) The cyclic loading on the compressor is reduced since storage
capacity is increased, thus helping to reduce the temperature of the
delivered air. (Lower temperature, less water)
As the old saying goes, there ain't no free lunch, but this is an
investment that will pay on big dividends over the years.
Just to clarify:
1) All pipe is Sch 40, black iron.
2) All fittings are 125/150 lb, black iron.
Enjoy,
Lew
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
>minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
>shop.
>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
My only comment is about their flow rates. AFAICS there was no
distance given. ??? Makes a lot of difference.
On 07 Jan 2005 22:11:19 GMT, Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>>be better off if that line DID leak.
>
>That looks to basically be PEX pipe. I have PEX in my RV. I just don't
>see PEX shattering like PVC. This looks like a good idea if the joints
>can be made leak free.
>
>Brian Elfert
Brian, I have tested the lines over two days and nights at 150psi. It
has dropped two pounds and I am wondering if that may be due to
temperature/settling of the new lines.
Greg (who is rather happy so far)
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:22:11 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>RE: Subject
>
>Having designed and installed a few compressed air distribution for
>industrial application, will offer the following:
>
>1) The distribution plumbing is part of the storage system.
>2) The larger the pipe used, the slower the air travels down the pipe.
>3) The slower the air travels down the pipe, the less water it can carry
>to the tool since the air is also cooler.
>4) If the air must reverse direction, it will help trapped water drop
>out of the air.
>5) The less water, the less problems and the longer the life of the
>equipment.
<snip>
Excellent post Lew, I wish I'd read it before installing my system as
there are a few things I'd do differently.
A few tips given to me by the installer/sales guy were 1,2,3 and 5.
Plus he mentioned the plastic is more thermally stable than pipe.
The other tip he gave was to coil the hose from the compressor to the
system on the concrete as it will help cool the air somewhat before it
went into the main line.
I did consider using 2" to 4" pipe but I had to run it behind a roller
door where I didn't have the space available.
Your post would make a good FAQ.
cheers,
Greg
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:19:00 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>Old Nick wrote:
>
>> I say this as somebody who continually gets pissed off with my wife.
>> She, apparently is Intuitive, and I am Sensate. She makes AN answer,
>> while I stand around and try to find out THE answer. We both get it
>> wrong...<G>
>
>But I'll bet only ONE of you is really, REALLY wrong. ;-)
Not quite said right. One of us is _always_ really really wrong :-<
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
>minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
>shop.
>
>Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
>At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>with me.
Is that the flexible line used for irrigation?
>Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
Crikey! The same cost in black pipe would have been under $100!
I know those are Aussie play dollars, but really, man. ;)
(The way Shrub's going, they'll be equal value to ours shortly.)
Oh, black pipe is also unscrewable with a small pipe wrench, so
it could be moved when you do if you wanted.
>I'm looking forward to a shop free of snaking hoses.
Then why not just hang a pivoting, automatic-retracting reel in the
center of the ceiling?
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
Groggy wrote:
>Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
>At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>with me.
<snip>
Buy them books and they eat the covers.
Lew
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> BUT black pipe is still my choice. at this time...
>
> Bob Griffiths
> ...
> .
Lots of places going to copper. No threading, easier to cut into if you
want to make changes in the middle of a run.
Old Nick wrote:
> I say this as somebody who continually gets pissed off with my wife.
> She, apparently is Intuitive, and I am Sensate. She makes AN answer,
> while I stand around and try to find out THE answer. We both get it
> wrong...<G>
But I'll bet only ONE of you is really, REALLY wrong. ;-)
-- Mark
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> writes:
>Groggy wrote:
>
>
>> I did consider using 2" to 4" pipe but I had to run it behind a roller
>> door where I didn't have the space available.
>
>
>Forgot to mention:
>
>Nobody in their right mind tries to thread anything above 2" pipe.
I used to routinely thread 4" and 6" iron and black iron pipe. Just
use a 4" to 2" reducer and chuck a bit of 2" in the Rigid power
threader and hold a hand-threader at the end of the 4" pipe. A bit of
a pain, but it works.
scott
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I wrote:
>>>Is that the flexible line used for irrigation?
>>
>>No Idea Larry.
>
> The thin stuff the sell for irrigation could probably be used
> for air. Was yours hard, like PVC, or soft and flexible? I'm
> referring to the black (over here) flexible stuff. I'm using
> 1/2" for my drip irrigation system and 1" for the irrigation
> canal to flood the lawn (when the neighbors had the pond.)
> It was about $10-20 for a 100' length. Pics here:
> http://www.digcorp.com/diy/inst_1.htm
Larry, that definitely is NOT it. That is low pressure water pipe, I have
some here too. This pipe is blue and is about 3/8" wall thickness.
> Have the plumbing supply shop cut and thread any non-standard lengths.
> Buck apiece? Here, the metal and plastic pipe fittings are all about
> the same price ($1-2 each) so there wouldn't be much difference. And
> pipe comes in pieces sized from flush nipples, 1", 2", 3", 6", 1', 2',
> 3', 4', and 10' at the smaller stores, 20' at the plumbing supply
> shop. It wouldn't be hard to size something without cutting. I assume
> you have a simple pipe wrench or a pair of channel locks, which would
> be the only specialized tool needed other than the masonry bit for
> drilling into concrete walls. I just don't see how they got the gall
> to give that awful price to you. Ouch!
Check my price post.
>>don't. This took me about 6 hrs to install and will take less than 20
>>minutes to remove. Black pipe would have taken probably two days with
>>a half day to remove. My daily rate is much more than $200.
>
> What, that length of time for sixty five feet worth? I'm talking 1/2
> or 3/4-inch pipe here: light, inexpensive, and easy to wrangle.
>
>
>>I have a 7' 6" ceiling and am 6' 2" - you do the math. Besides I
>>already have too much junk over my head, where I can, I use it for
>>storage of long pieces of timber.
>
> Gotcha. Anyway, enjoy your new air, Grogs. It sure is handy, innit?
>
>
> --
> "Menja bé, caga fort!"
>
Groggy wrote:
> Excellent post Lew, I wish I'd read it before installing my system as
> there are a few things I'd do differently.
<snip>
Thank you.
The real secret for the home shop kind of person is to work a deal with
a local contractor, otherwise, you can't gain economical access to 2"
cutting and threading equipment.
Building a boat as I am, you would be amazed at some of the deals I make
with the neighbors in this industrial area.
Could probably write a book about it.<G>
Lew
thoughts on using copper?
"Groggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
> minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
> shop.
>
> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
> with me.
>
> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
> http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>
>
> I'm looking forward to a shop free of snaking hoses.
>
> Greg
Groggy wrote:
> I did consider using 2" to 4" pipe but I had to run it behind a roller
> door where I didn't have the space available.
Forgot to mention:
Nobody in their right mind tries to thread anything above 2" pipe.
After that it is welding and flanges.
Unless you have access to the equipment, anything above 2" is strictly
industrial and requires some serious material handling equipment.
Designed a system for a 100 x 100 ft industrial facility where they used
8" runs against the outer walls on two (2) sides, then crossed the other
way with 4" runs every 25 ft.
The take offs were street ells located on the 4" pipe.
Located a 100HP compressor at each end of the building and that was it.
The distribution system was the storage system.
This was new construction which made it a valid choice.
Trying to do that in a plant full of machinery would be tough.
Don't know if the place even exists any more.
Lew
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Better places to buy black pipe than MC, prices are probably 3X of what I
> can buy it for.
> But for the ease of installation, you did good!
> Greg
>
>
Pipe has skyrocketed in the past year. I called the plumbing supply about a
length of 4" pipe and was shocked at the price. (IIRC, it was about $12 a
foot!) He said the mills are not even giving prices when you order, it will
be determined at the time of shipment. MC is a little high, but not the 3X
you stated.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Crikey! The same cost in black pipe would have been under $100!
> I know those are Aussie play dollars, but really, man. ;)
Have you priced black pipe lately? Astronomical
It would be at least double your estimate
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:59:49 -0800, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
>calmly ranted:
>
>>Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
>>minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
>>shop.
>>
>>Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>>polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>>with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>>
>>At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>>leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>>that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>>with me.
>
>Is that the flexible line used for irrigation?
No Idea Larry.
>>Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>>associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>>
>>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>
>Crikey! The same cost in black pipe would have been under $100!
>I know those are Aussie play dollars, but really, man. ;)
It doesn't rust. Besides Larry, add up the cost of black pipe,
fittings, tooling, thread cutters etc and I think you'll find the
difference isn't that great. Assume you don't have the tools - I
don't. This took me about 6 hrs to install and will take less than 20
minutes to remove. Black pipe would have taken probably two days with
a half day to remove. My daily rate is much more than $200.
>(The way Shrub's going, they'll be equal value to ours shortly.)
>Oh, black pipe is also unscrewable with a small pipe wrench, so
>it could be moved when you do if you wanted.
>
>Then why not just hang a pivoting, automatic-retracting reel in the
>center of the ceiling?
I have a 7' 6" ceiling and am 6' 2" - you do the math. Besides I
already have too much junk over my head, where I can, I use it for
storage of long pieces of timber.
Groggy
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:32:58 -0800, "ted harris"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>So by your philosophy it's easier to go through life guessing rather than
>finding out the facts.
hmmmmm...Not easier, but how many facts have been discovered because
somebody acted on a hunch or followed up a guess?
As long as the guess is presented clarly as one, there should be lots
of room for them.
I say this as somebody who continually gets pissed off with my wife.
She, apparently is Intuitive, and I am Sensate. She makes AN answer,
while I stand around and try to find out THE answer. We both get it
wrong...<G>
Looking for supplier for pricing in US. Here is what I found so far. I
didm't find a comprehensive system like the OP had found.
http://www.asahi-america.com/productCatalog.cfm?fa=compressedAirPipingSystem_ip
http://www.ipexinc.com/Content/EN_CA/2_0_Products/2_1_Industrial/2_1_4_Compressed_air.asp
http://www.festo.com/INetDomino/coorp_sites/en/fa30834a75ba521ac1256e8300488894.htm
http://www.1stindustrialdirectory.com/Compressed_Air/Compressed_Air_50.html
http://www.parker.com/automationgroup/cat/english/SystemsBrochure.pdf
http://www.wilson-company.com/pneumatics.htm
http://www.parker.com/pneumatic
not sure if this will be helpful.
"Groggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
> minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
> shop.
>
> Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
> polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
> with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
> At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
> leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
> that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
> with me.
>
> Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
> associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
> http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>
>
> I'm looking forward to a shop free of snaking hoses.
>
> Greg
On 5 Jan 2005 21:56:06 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>Got a link? I'd like to read about the stuff, I'm tired of
>dragging hose around.
To view the pipe:
http://www.polair.com.au/tips_install.html
http://www.polair.com.au for the actual home page.
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:01:52 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>> It was about $10-20 for a 100' length. Pics here:
>> http://www.digcorp.com/diy/inst_1.htm
>
>Larry, that definitely is NOT it. That is low pressure water pipe, I have
>some here too. This pipe is blue and is about 3/8" wall thickness.
Gotcha. But low-pressure water pipe is 4x underrated for safety. When
it says 90psi, it can handle 360. I saw other tubing listed by other
makers in 3, 5, 7, and 13mm wall and think it would be easier to use
than black iron pipe. But I have an 8.5' ceiling (thank goodness) so
an air drop would work for me I already hang an electrical extension
cord from there so I can use power hand tools on any given machine.
>>I just don't see how they got the gall
>> to give that awful price to you. Ouch!
>
>Check my price post.
A those prices, I'm certainly not going to buy pipe from McMaster.
It's much cheaper from my local plumbing/electrical supply store.
($8.95 for 10' of 1/2", $9.95 for 10' of 3/4", didn't price 1")
Here's how I use 3/4" pipe in my shop today, floor through ceiling:
http://www.diversify.com/wood/sheetgoodcart.jpg ;)
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>be better off if that line DID leak.
The line is specifically designed for high pressure compressed air and
does not shatter, it isn't PVC. I took to a one inch offcut with a
hammer and I only managed to squash it, like hitting copper.
cheers,
Greg
There has been some discussion over the prices I paid for the fittings
and pipe for the compressed air lines. Below is a breakdown in AU$
with US$ equivalent alongside:
(View in fixed width font)
Polair Polypropylene products
Poly pipe 25mm x 6m (4 @ $29) $116 (US$88.38)
Poly threaded Tee 25mm x 1/2 (5 @ $11) $55 (US$41.90)
Poly threaded end 25mm x 1/2 (3 @ $8) $24 (US$18.29)
Poly elbow 25mm equal (3 @ $10) $30 (US$22.83)
Poly threaded elbow 25mm x 1/2 (1 @ $8.70) $8.70 (US$6.62)
Poly clip 25mm (20 @ $2) $40 (US$30.45)
general air fitting and hardware
reducing nipples 1/2 to 1/4 brass (4 @ $2.90) $11.60 (US$8.82)
ball valve 1/4 F-F yellow handle (3 @ $10) $30.00 (US$22.83)
nitto coupling 1/2 male (5 @ $15) $75.00 (US$57.09)
nitto coupling 1/4 male (1 @ $14) $14.00 (US$10.66)
Ramset wall screws 12G x 50 mm (1 @ $7) $7.00 (US$5.33)
Total $411.30 (US$313.08)
Less US$22 for one length of pipe returned surplus (US$291.08)
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:11:56 -0500, Bob G.
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:15:13 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
>
>This is my second post within this thread...
>
> I will have to retract (for now) what I said in my first post...at
>least until I do a little research on Polyethelene .. PVC is
>something I would never use for air lines.. have to withoold
>my judgement on polyethelene...
>
>BUT black pipe is still my choice. at this time...
PE is semi-soft, and extremely tough. My truck has PE airlines all
over it for brakes etc. To be rated for air, at 1" it will probably be
quite thick as well. _If_ it bursts, it will simply split open, with
very little if any shrapnel. There would be danger of the pipe flying
away under pressure if not securely anchored.
Any flexible airline is a far greater danger in the shop. I had one
where the end fitting came off. It had a tankful of 150 PSI air to
help it along. Luckily it wrapped itself after only 10 long seconds. I
left the shed and waited for it to work itself out. Luckily it was
only a small compressor, which could not keep up the pressure.
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:38:17 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Groggy wrote:
>
>
>> I did consider using 2" to 4" pipe but I had to run it behind a roller
>> door where I didn't have the space available.
>
>
>Forgot to mention:
>
>Nobody in their right mind tries to thread anything above 2" pipe.
>
>After that it is welding and flanges.
>
>Unless you have access to the equipment, anything above 2" is strictly
>industrial and requires some serious material handling equipment.
The 4" pipe I referred to was the polyethlene, Scaling up is
relatively simple with this stuff, it can also be welded if you know
how (I don't).
As an aside, my BIL has some old oxy or acetylene cylinders from the
gas company that he uses to trap moisture and for extra storage. inlet
at the top and he put a drain in the bottom. Four of them lined up
across the back of his shed give him a huge amount of air when needed.
Greg
Groggy wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Don't forget to invest in a box of bandaids for when that line lets go. You'd
>>be better off if that line DID leak.
>
>
> The line is specifically designed for high pressure compressed air and
> does not shatter, it isn't PVC. I took to a one inch offcut with a
> hammer and I only managed to squash it, like hitting copper.
>
Is that stuff similar to the tubing seen in soda dispensing systems?
If so, it'll probably work fine.
How much would copper cost for the identical installation?
Barry
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Over the years the threads on using PVC vs black pipe have been of
>minor interest to me as, 'one day' , I intended to put lines in the
>shop.
>
>Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>
>At the end of the day I ran it up to 150PSI and didn't get a hint of a
>leak. One of the things that attracted me to this setup was the fact
>that if I move house I simply unscrew the system by hand and take it
>with me.
>
>Cost: US$290 for 65' of 1" pipe, 4 Ts, 4 elbows, 5 stop cocks,
>associated fitting connectors and mounting saddles.
>
>http://www.polair.com.au/index.html
>
>
>I'm looking forward to a shop free of snaking hoses.
>
>Greg
========================================
Hate to say it BUT I think you missed a lot of information over the
years you have been following the PVC vs Black pipe threads...
I restore cars as a hobby..and to be truthful I could not live without
using air tools... and there is absolutely no way I would be inside my
garage whle those PVC lines were pressurized...
Sorry BUT using PVC is not a smart move... nor is is any cheaper then
using black pipe ...
Bob Griffiths
FYI Larry, in US dollars, McMaster -Carr lists it at $5.97 per foot. I
used 65 feet. 65 x $5.97 = $388.05
Using 126" lengths it is $42.80 per length. I'd need just over 6
lengths, even then it works out at $264.95.
Then, you need to buy joiners, saddles, tape or hemp, a cutting tool,
deburrer, reducers etc.
I think I got a better deal somehow, remember that I paid $290 for
everything, including all fittings.
Spec used was :
Shape Pipe: Pipe Size 1"
Finish: Black
Steel: Black Welded Steel
Pipe to Pipe Connection: NPT Male x Butt-Weld
Schedule: 40
Outside Diameter: 1.315"
Inside Diameter: 1.049"
Wall Thickness: .133"
Length: 12"
Specifications Met: ASTM A53 and A733
Bob G. <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:35:08 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
>>Yesterday I spent the day putting in 5 outlets. The piping was
>>polyethlene with polypropylene fittings. Connection was very easy, cut
>>with SCMS and tighten nut by hand - that's it.
>>Greg
>========================================
>Hate to say it BUT I think you missed a lot of information over the
>years you have been following the PVC vs Black pipe threads...
Hate to say it BUT I think you missed the part of Greg's post
where he stated that he used polyethelene. PVC is polyvinyl chloride.
Polyethelene != PVC.
scott
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:11:56 -0500, Bob G.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:15:13 GMT, Groggy <[email protected]>
>
>This is my second post within this thread...
>
> I will have to retract (for now) what I said in my first post...at
>least until I do a little research on Polyethelene .. PVC is
>something I would never use for air lines.. have to withoold
>my judgement on polyethelene...
>
>BUT black pipe is still my choice. at this time...
I agree with you about PVC, a dangerous way to go. The polyethlene is
more like ,umm, I guess a solid rubber tyre is the closest I can come
to describing its consistency. I know it won't shatter as it has that
'rubbery' feel that tells you it will split rather than shatter. It
also is able to twist (say 60 deg over 10') and bend (say 30 deg over
10') which is very handy when installing.
Greg