I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
seen a lot of baseball recently.
There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal break;
what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length of the
bat.
Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
they pay a little more attention to the grain?
The breaks do look diagonal, and also would have thought quatersawn
would be used and not plain sliced. As a kid and later coaching youth
baseball the lable faced you as stated. In professional baseball I
have not noticed that to be true. A special bat would have some Red
sox inlayed in bat. That could be the label and tell him to allways
have it face him. GO RED SOX ONE TO GO
On Oct 28, 8:59 am, henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> The breaks do look diagonal, and also would have thought quatersawn
> would be used and not plain sliced.
umm.... bats are round. which surface is the face and which is the
edge?
On 28 Oct, 00:26, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
> seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal break;
> what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length of the
> bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
OT, but I remember the days when you could go to a major league
stadium and they would give cracked bats to the fans like they do
scuffed baseballs today.
I wonder which team's lawyer realized the liabilty they were subjected
to via:
1 - Handing a weapon to a fan, especially considering alcohol might be
involved.
2 - Giving a kid a bat, who would take it home and tape it up, and
then have the bat break and hurt someone during a sand lot game.
Of course, I also remember Bat Days, when they would hand out little
miniature bats to the first X thousand fans to enter the ballpark.
What a concept - thousands of angry, drunk fans with team-issued
weapons. How would you like to be a rent-a-cop on that day?
Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 4:26am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Toller) doth wonder:
I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
seen a lot of baseball recently.
There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length
of the bat.
Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
they pay a little more attention to the grain?
I'd suggest looking up on-line how they make professional baseball
bats, and the attention they pay.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
samson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I
>> >have seen a lot of baseball recently.
>> > There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a
>> > diagonal break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run
>> > straight the length of the bat.
>> >
>> > Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why
>> > don't they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>> >
>>
>> Just like a regular board the grain runs from one end to the other.
>> Broken bats are usually the result of not holding the bat with the
>> label either facing up or down. With the label facing up or down
>> the grain is parallel with the ground when the bat is held
>> horizontally and is stronger. If the label is held facing forward or
>> backward the grain runs perpendicular to the ground when the bat is
>> held horizontally and is naturally weaker.
>
> Generally happens when the batter goes after something coming
> on the inside and hits it with the thinner part of the bat.
> With a hard slider or cut fastball (Mariano Rivera) breaking in,
> the bat can definitely break against the grain.
>
> S.
I think that bats are more prone to breakage if stored improperly. I
broke 2 wood bats, including one very thick one, during one summer
storing the bat in the garage. Previously, I had stored the bats in the
house and they never broke.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"High Score" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Richard Jagels, a prof of forest biology at UMaine has a regular column
> in WoodenBoat magazine. In this past issue, his article was on baseball
> bats. He makes a point that the switch from ash to maple (apparently
> Barry Bonds started a trend) has resulted in more broken bats. This is
> for a couple of reasons: 1. Maple has a very tight diffuse grain so it's
> much harder to assess and optimise grain orientation, in other words
> cross grain is harder to avoid, 2. Maple is stiffer and heavier than ash
> so some players want thinner handles so that they get some flex back or
> are trying to cut weight
Has anyone tried willow. Here in the UK cricket bats - a similar use to baseball bats - are almost
exclusivey made of this wood.
You would need an expert - not me - to tell you why it is considered so good though.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
> But the lumber selection, etc., is far more careful than the
> "run-of-the-mill" bats...
From what I learned, the manufacturer simply requests a specific type wood
and weight and leaves that up to his supplier. He then verifies the weight
after turning.
"Toller" wrote...
[...]
> There are quite a few broken bats
[...]
There are a number of factors involved in the increase in broken bats. =
MLB players have their bats custom made, and roughly 50% are using maple =
now. Maple isn't as resilient as ash, IMO. That's why ash is easier to =
steam bend to tighter radii than is maple.
The bats today are thinner, including the handles. The strength of a =
cylinder is a factor of it's diameter to the 4th power. So a modern bat =
can be considerably weaker than an older fatter bat.
Add to that stronger players hitting 90mph fastballs, and you have more =
broken bats.
--=20
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 28, 8:59 am, henry <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The breaks do look diagonal, and also would have thought quatersawn
>> would be used and not plain sliced.
>
>
>
> umm.... bats are round. which surface is the face and which is the
> edge?
>
Imagine the grain running parallel to the ground and the label running
parallel to the grain.
"samson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Here's a good article with some pictures about a place
> that makes bats, but it's mostly about the impact of the
> ash bore beetle.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/us/11ashbat.html?_r=1
> &pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
Wow... Secondary question from me: Would love to know how they bore out
the "slugs" prior to turning them into bats... It almost looks as if they
use a deep hole saw to pull out a slug from a large log from teh concave
cuts in the barky remnants they show.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> I just sold a unit to "drill" out the concave end of the bats at (insert
>> major name company here)...
>
> Do you mean where the cork goes? <G>
LOL... Only if it's a Red Sox player. <evil grin>
Seriously though, congrats to all Red Sox fans. I'm not a fan of teh game
at all - last game I watched was the world series... When the yankees
played the mets...
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
"henry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The breaks do look diagonal, and also would have thought quatersawn
> would be used and not plain sliced. As a kid and later coaching youth
> baseball the lable faced you as stated. In professional baseball I
> have not noticed that to be true. A special bat would have some Red
> sox inlayed in bat. That could be the label and tell him to allways
> have it face him. GO RED SOX ONE TO GO
>
Of course any long round piece of wood will have both face and quarter
grain, so that's a silly thing to say. The label is on the face to
encourage you to put the quarter into the arc of the bat. Gives you the
support of those parallel latewood rings and keeps it from splitting along
them.
Best way to minimize the problems inherent with the smaller grip would be to
rive the blank rather than saw it, one would think, yet none of the shows
I've seen mention anything but sawing which gets more out of a tapered
trunk, but provides an angled fracture plane across the weak spot. Probably
why the bats which you see being broken have angled breaks. The ones with
straight grain don't....
There was a very comprehensive article on this matter online a couple of
weeks ago, wish I'd saved it. In addition to the label location issue
mentioned by other posters, the article explained that for the first hundred
years or so of baseball, wood was harvested from old-growth trees, resulting
in denser, stronger wood. With the tremendous boom in the lumber industry,
today's wood comes largely from replanted forests of less mature trees, and
the quality is diminished. Another factor is today's widespread use of
batting gloves. Because of the extra couple of millimeters of glove
thickness, batters feel more comfortable with a correspondingly thinner bat
handle. Also, there's a trend toward lighter (and therefore thinner) bats to
increase bat speed and deliver more energy to the ball.
B.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
> seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
break;
> what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length of the
> bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
> >seen a lot of baseball recently.
> > There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
> > break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length
> > of the bat.
> >
> > Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> > they pay a little more attention to the grain?
> >
>
> Just like a regular board the grain runs from one end to the other. Broken
> bats are usually the result of not holding the bat with the label either
> facing up or down. With the label facing up or down the grain is parallel
> with the ground when the bat is held horizontally and is stronger. If the
> label is held facing forward or backward the grain runs perpendicular to the
> ground when the bat is held horizontally and is naturally weaker.
Generally happens when the batter goes after something coming
on the inside and hits it with the thinner part of the bat.
With a hard slider or cut fastball (Mariano Rivera) breaking in,
the bat can definitely break against the grain.
S.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
>seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
> break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length
> of the bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
Just like a regular board the grain runs from one end to the other. Broken
bats are usually the result of not holding the bat with the label either
facing up or down. With the label facing up or down the grain is parallel
with the ground when the bat is held horizontally and is stronger. If the
label is held facing forward or backward the grain runs perpendicular to the
ground when the bat is held horizontally and is naturally weaker.
I just sold a unit to "drill" out the concave end of the bats at (insert
major name company here)... I'll shoot him an e-mail and ask him...
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
>seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
> break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length
> of the bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
Richard Jagels, a prof of forest biology at UMaine has a regular column
in WoodenBoat magazine. In this past issue, his article was on baseball
bats. He makes a point that the switch from ash to maple (apparently
Barry Bonds started a trend) has resulted in more broken bats. This is
for a couple of reasons: 1. Maple has a very tight diffuse grain so it's
much harder to assess and optimise grain orientation, in other words
cross grain is harder to avoid, 2. Maple is stiffer and heavier than ash
so some players want thinner handles so that they get some flex back or
are trying to cut weight
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I
> have seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
> break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the
> length of the bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why
> don't they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
>
HeyBub wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special
>> other than the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the
>> label in the correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
>
> By the tens of thousands.
Those were mass-produced bats for the general market, _not_ the ones
specifically made for individual major-leaguers. They are individually
manufactured to individual specifications.
--
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 04:26:41 GMT, Toller wrote:
> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
> seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal break;
> what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length of the
> bat.
>
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
Ok it's time I came out of the shadows, I have been lurking for sometime
getting the feel of this newsgroup.
What had not been mentioned is the fact that the bats now used at the major
league level are more or less physical copies of the aluminum bats the
players grew up using from Little League through college. The aluminum bats
have a much smaller handle than the wooden bats that were in use a half
century ago when I played Little League. This smaller handle makes them
inherently more susceptible to breaking when going after the inside pitch
as explained by samson earlier.
I have heard several announcers comment about the danger of sharp pointed
bat pieces flying at the players along with the ball. This was highlighted
this past season when a base coach was impaled in the neck by one of these.
Fortunately nothing vital was pierced and a full recovery was made. (I
would have given more exact info as to who, when, and where but I could not
remember or find the facts.)
BTW, I have definitely learned many practical tips and tricks of
woodworking by reading the messages here. Thanks to one and all. Now I will
move back into the shadows and absorb more practical knowledge.
--
Disciple - Team Z
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal.5:25
dpb wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special
>>> other than the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the
>>> label in the correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
>>
>> By the tens of thousands.
>
> Those were mass-produced bats for the general market, _not_ the ones
> specifically made for individual major-leaguers. They are individually
> manufactured to individual specifications.
And, although I'm not sure how true it is now as opposed to 20 years
ago, at one time most major league players used Hillerich & Bradsby
rather than Louisville Slugger.
Also, in the early years of the heavy bat (Ruth is reputed to have used
47-oz bat the year he hit 60 whereas now it would be rare to even find
any bat over about 33 oz in a clubhouse) bats were hickory w/ a
specific gravity of about 0.8 whereas as is closer to 0.6. The change
was essentially required to get the mass down. It also results in a
barrel diameter near the minimum allowed 2.5" rather than the then
common maximum of 2.75".
--
Leon wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special
>>>> other than the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the
>>>> label in the correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
>>> By the tens of thousands.
>> Those were mass-produced bats for the general market, _not_ the ones
>> specifically made for individual major-leaguers. They are individually
>> manufactured to individual specifications.
>>
>> --
>
> Yeah, there is a pattern that a jig follows for individual player
> preferences. Still, the bat is turned out in a mater of a minute or two.
But the lumber selection, etc., is far more careful than the
"run-of-the-mill" bats...
--
Leon wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>
>> But the lumber selection, etc., is far more careful than the
>> "run-of-the-mill" bats...
>
>
> From what I learned, the manufacturer simply requests a specific type wood
> and weight and leaves that up to his supplier. He then verifies the weight
> after turning.
Not from the tour at H&B I went on -- but it was some years ago. But, I
still doubt seriously the M-L bats aren't hand selected billets, etc.
The others, surely...
--
In article <[email protected]>,
dpb <[email protected]> writes:
> specific gravity of about 0.8 whereas as is closer to 0.6. The change
> was essentially required to get the mass down. It also results in a
> barrel diameter near the minimum allowed 2.5" rather than the then
> common maximum of 2.75".
There is no minimum diameter by rule.
The maximum diameter is 2.75" as you state.
The maximum length is 42". I'm assuming OBR, not NCAA or FED (high school)
here since you're talking about wood bats.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
Mathematician, umpire and woodworker
I remember (c. 1965-1970) goingto the Big 5 store, bying a Hillerich
and Bradsby Louisville Slugger for $4.99 (later $5.99) (Micky Mantle
profile/autogragh, thin handle, with a tapered barrel), and brining
them to my Little League games. They'd break (usually a friend using
them, not me). I'd bring it home, Dad would glue/nail/screw it back,
and we'd use them for street and sandlot games.
Good times.... good times....
-Zz
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:35:59 -0700, DerbyDad03 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 28 Oct, 00:26, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
>> seen a lot of baseball recently.
>> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal break;
>> what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length of the
>> bat.
>>
>> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
>> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
>OT, but I remember the days when you could go to a major league
>stadium and they would give cracked bats to the fans like they do
>scuffed baseballs today.
>
>I wonder which team's lawyer realized the liabilty they were subjected
>to via:
>
>1 - Handing a weapon to a fan, especially considering alcohol might be
>involved.
>2 - Giving a kid a bat, who would take it home and tape it up, and
>then have the bat break and hurt someone during a sand lot game.
>
>Of course, I also remember Bat Days, when they would hand out little
>miniature bats to the first X thousand fans to enter the ballpark.
>What a concept - thousands of angry, drunk fans with team-issued
>weapons. How would you like to be a rent-a-cop on that day?
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special
>>> other than the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the
>>> label in the correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
>>
>> By the tens of thousands.
>
> Those were mass-produced bats for the general market, _not_ the ones
> specifically made for individual major-leaguers. They are individually
> manufactured to individual specifications.
>
> --
Yeah, there is a pattern that a jig follows for individual player
preferences. Still, the bat is turned out in a mater of a minute or two.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 4:26am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Toller) doth wonder:
> I don't really care for the game, but my son is a Red Sox fan, so I have
> seen a lot of baseball recently.
> There are quite a few broken bats, and they all look to be a diagonal
> break; what you would expect if the grain didn't run straight the length
> of the bat.
> Is that true, or does it just look that way? And if it's true, why don't
> they pay a little more attention to the grain?
>
> I'd suggest looking up on-line how they make professional baseball
> bats, and the attention they pay.
I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special other than
the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the label in the
correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
I recall the controversy as to how the label should be oriented while at the
plate.
It's been said that Hank Aaron was asked and said: " I don't know, I don't
go to the plate to read."
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have seen on TV how a major supplier does it. Nothing special other
> than the type of wood, Ash. The biggest trick is placing the label in the
> correct position. The bats were turned out very quickly.
>