A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
an online forum.
What are the wreck's thoughts on this method?
------------
As a cabinetmaker for many years (more than I like to admit), I can
tell you firsthand that every cabinet shop I've ever seen used contact
cement. The main difference is that we spray it on.
I have also done the yellow glue/ iron method for years on some
projects and can also vouch for it's effectiveness and ease.
Here's a step by step I wrote up after answering the first hundred
questions about the procedure.
As an alternative to contact cement, try ironing on with yellow glue.
1. Prep substrate (should be perfectly flat and clean).
2. Cut veneer 1/2"-1" oversize.
3. With a foam roller cover, apply coat of yellow glue mixed with a
little water (to let it roll on easier) to the substrate (I usually
just pour a little glue on the suface and roll it around)
4. Roll on a coat to back of veneer using push-pins or tape to hold it
down flat. Make sure no glue gets on face of veneer!
5. Substrate may need second coat, especially edges. You want the
material to be built up on the
surface.
6. Let dry.
7. Position veneer on substrate (it will not adhere without heat).
8. Using household iron set at high, proceed to iron on the veneer,
starting at center and working out. Keep the iron moving slowly so as
not to burn the veneer. (trial piece good idea to get the feel for it).
Use edge of wood block to keep pressure on it as you iron.
9. Trim as usual.
10. Before glueing adjacent sides, apply masking tape to the edge of
the veneered side where it
meets the raw face that will be getting glue next. Again, make sure no
glue gets on the face of any of the veneer!!! (this applies to using
contact cement also)
A couple of big advantages are:
Bond strength.
Ability to position veneer.
Surface will be FLAT when you're done. Contact cement is much more
difficult to control, and really isn't recommended for unbacked veneer.
I've never seen that one. Glue on the surface would impact any finishing, even
if you scraped it off. The water dampening, however, does help with curling,
as long as you keep it light to avoid pulling the glue through.
GerryG
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:48 GMT, max <[email protected]> wrote:
>My understanding is that you coat both sides of the veneer with glue. It
>equalizes the moisture content of the veneer. You then sand and scrape the
>glue off after.
>max
>
>> "Wyatt" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1109096378.995074.257770
>> @c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
>>> veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
>>> he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
>>> an online forum.
>> (snip)
>>
>> Yep, I've been using that method for veneering mahogany and Peruvian walnut
>> over baltic birch. It works very well. The only things that I do
>> differently from the sequence you posted are that I dampen the frontside of
>> the veneer before applying glue to the backside (helps with the curling
>> problem). Also, I apply at least two coats of glue to both veneer and
>> substrate, and let it dry before doing the ironing sequence. You want the
>> glue to have a bit of thickness and feel almost leathery before you iron it
>> on.
>>
>> Still, I am thinking about building one of those homemade vacuum presses.
My understanding is that you coat both sides of the veneer with glue. It
equalizes the moisture content of the veneer. You then sand and scrape the
glue off after.
max
> "Wyatt" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1109096378.995074.257770
> @c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
>> veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
>> he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
>> an online forum.
> (snip)
>
> Yep, I've been using that method for veneering mahogany and Peruvian walnut
> over baltic birch. It works very well. The only things that I do
> differently from the sequence you posted are that I dampen the frontside of
> the veneer before applying glue to the backside (helps with the curling
> problem). Also, I apply at least two coats of glue to both veneer and
> substrate, and let it dry before doing the ironing sequence. You want the
> glue to have a bit of thickness and feel almost leathery before you iron it
> on.
>
> Still, I am thinking about building one of those homemade vacuum presses.
"Wyatt" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1109096378.995074.257770
@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
> veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
> he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
> an online forum.
(snip)
Yep, I've been using that method for veneering mahogany and Peruvian walnut
over baltic birch. It works very well. The only things that I do
differently from the sequence you posted are that I dampen the frontside of
the veneer before applying glue to the backside (helps with the curling
problem). Also, I apply at least two coats of glue to both veneer and
substrate, and let it dry before doing the ironing sequence. You want the
glue to have a bit of thickness and feel almost leathery before you iron it
on.
Still, I am thinking about building one of those homemade vacuum presses.
On 22 Feb 2005 10:19:39 -0800, "Wyatt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
>veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
>he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
>an online forum.
>
>What are the wreck's thoughts on this method?
I just posted on this subject in another thread. I have used the
method to attach laminate to plywood (Baltic birch) with good success.
However, I tried it on MDF (Borg quality) and had a problem with the
technique. The laminate bonded just fine, but the MDF itself
delaminated along the edges. I cut about a half inch off this
sandwich and the bond was perfect.
My hypothesis is that the moisture in the glue swells the MDF and the
memory in the laminate generates enough force to tear away the top
layer of the MDF. With thin veneer this may not be an issue, as your
friend's experience seems to imply.
>------------
>As a cabinetmaker for many years (more than I like to admit), I can
>tell you firsthand that every cabinet shop I've ever seen used contact
>cement. The main difference is that we spray it on.
>
>I have also done the yellow glue/ iron method for years on some
>projects and can also vouch for it's effectiveness and ease.
>
>Here's a step by step I wrote up after answering the first hundred
>questions about the procedure.
>
>As an alternative to contact cement, try ironing on with yellow glue.
>1. Prep substrate (should be perfectly flat and clean).
>2. Cut veneer 1/2"-1" oversize.
>3. With a foam roller cover, apply coat of yellow glue mixed with a
>little water (to let it roll on easier) to the substrate (I usually
>just pour a little glue on the suface and roll it around)
>4. Roll on a coat to back of veneer using push-pins or tape to hold it
>down flat. Make sure no glue gets on face of veneer!
>5. Substrate may need second coat, especially edges. You want the
>material to be built up on the
>surface.
>6. Let dry.
>7. Position veneer on substrate (it will not adhere without heat).
>8. Using household iron set at high, proceed to iron on the veneer,
>starting at center and working out. Keep the iron moving slowly so as
>not to burn the veneer. (trial piece good idea to get the feel for it).
>Use edge of wood block to keep pressure on it as you iron.
>9. Trim as usual.
>10. Before glueing adjacent sides, apply masking tape to the edge of
>the veneered side where it
>meets the raw face that will be getting glue next. Again, make sure no
>glue gets on the face of any of the veneer!!! (this applies to using
>contact cement also)
>
>A couple of big advantages are:
>Bond strength.
>Ability to position veneer.
>Surface will be FLAT when you're done. Contact cement is much more
>difficult to control, and really isn't recommended for unbacked veneer.
I've used this in a few cases, and the biggest item seems to be the thickness
of the laminate. Beyond about 0.018 it gets more difficult, while thinner
works fine.
Thank you for the MDF comments. I've not tried it on that. I wonder if shellac
would help here. It's also thermoplastic, and would at least partially seal
the MDF from moisture while the glue dries. I also use it on the surface of
thin laminate to prevent any glue from penetrating.
GerryG
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:47:57 -0700, Wes Stewart <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 22 Feb 2005 10:19:39 -0800, "Wyatt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A buddy of mine is getting into speaker building. His boxes are
>>veneered MDF. We were discussing veneering (which I haven't done) and
>>he said that he was using the method described below, which he found on
>>an online forum.
>>
>>What are the wreck's thoughts on this method?
>
>I just posted on this subject in another thread. I have used the
>method to attach laminate to plywood (Baltic birch) with good success.
>
>However, I tried it on MDF (Borg quality) and had a problem with the
>technique. The laminate bonded just fine, but the MDF itself
>delaminated along the edges. I cut about a half inch off this
>sandwich and the bond was perfect.
>
>My hypothesis is that the moisture in the glue swells the MDF and the
>memory in the laminate generates enough force to tear away the top
>layer of the MDF. With thin veneer this may not be an issue, as your
>friend's experience seems to imply.
>
>
>>------------
>>As a cabinetmaker for many years (more than I like to admit), I can
>>tell you firsthand that every cabinet shop I've ever seen used contact
>>cement. The main difference is that we spray it on.
>>
>>I have also done the yellow glue/ iron method for years on some
>>projects and can also vouch for it's effectiveness and ease.
>>
>>Here's a step by step I wrote up after answering the first hundred
>>questions about the procedure.
>>
>>As an alternative to contact cement, try ironing on with yellow glue.
>>1. Prep substrate (should be perfectly flat and clean).
>>2. Cut veneer 1/2"-1" oversize.
>>3. With a foam roller cover, apply coat of yellow glue mixed with a
>>little water (to let it roll on easier) to the substrate (I usually
>>just pour a little glue on the suface and roll it around)
>>4. Roll on a coat to back of veneer using push-pins or tape to hold it
>>down flat. Make sure no glue gets on face of veneer!
>>5. Substrate may need second coat, especially edges. You want the
>>material to be built up on the
>>surface.
>>6. Let dry.
>>7. Position veneer on substrate (it will not adhere without heat).
>>8. Using household iron set at high, proceed to iron on the veneer,
>>starting at center and working out. Keep the iron moving slowly so as
>>not to burn the veneer. (trial piece good idea to get the feel for it).
>>Use edge of wood block to keep pressure on it as you iron.
>>9. Trim as usual.
>>10. Before glueing adjacent sides, apply masking tape to the edge of
>>the veneered side where it
>>meets the raw face that will be getting glue next. Again, make sure no
>>glue gets on the face of any of the veneer!!! (this applies to using
>>contact cement also)
>>
>>A couple of big advantages are:
>>Bond strength.
>>Ability to position veneer.
>>Surface will be FLAT when you're done. Contact cement is much more
>>difficult to control, and really isn't recommended for unbacked veneer.