My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His
plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off
with top of the line equipment.
He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and vibratory
sander, and some handtools.
Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
set-ups, etc?
TIA,
Bob
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 6, 10:46 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
.
>
> This is getting sillier by the minute, as I forgot to tell you that
> your craftsman has a bent shaft as well.
> You see, his wasn't a quality saw.
Then again, as the old argument goes, a craftsman would know how to get good
results anyway... and never blame his tools. ;~)
John
Hi Bob
Glad to have another hobbyist join the club! Most people cut their teeth
doing general around-the-house fix-ups before getting the gumption to
try a "museum piece".
But as for your question, were you asking for lists of tools that would
be recommended for a successful "minimal" shop, or were you asking for
shop layouts (an organizational question)?
If you meant recommended tools, you're going to get quite a few
responses, each flavored by everyone's expertise or preference. I'll
chip in my two cents worth... I'd go with the following, pretty much in
this order until you've reached your major tool budget
** Table Saw - Probably the most-used tool
** Power Drill - Probably tied with the table saw
** Sander - Can get by with a hand/block sander, but a palm sander will
save your son time and frustration
** Circular Saw - This is a poor-man's sliding compound, so you might
not need this for your son, but it comes in handy when cutting large 4x8
panels down to size by yourself
** Router - Most cabinet work can be improved by better joints, and the
router is pretty darned hard to beat for speedy and accurate joint formation
The last here are optional toys, and depend on what your son thinks he
will get into
** Bandsaw - This would allow him to either cut fancy curves into pieces
if used with a thin blade, or to economically reduce the size of large
boards if used with a thick blade
** Scroll Saw - Kind-of a mini-bandsaw, just for curve/scroll work
** Jigsaw - Great for free-hand cutting jobs, and cheap to boot.
Essentially a power hand-saw.
** Drill Press - Great for mortising
And as for hand tools, he might have some of these, but here's my
preferred list anyway...
** Claw hammer
** 6" Speed Square
** Retractable tape (he's gotta already have one of these...)
** Level (you want those cabinets level, right?)
** Screwdrivers (all 3 sizes of all 3 types, Flat, Phillips (cross) and
Robertson(square))
The rest are small-ticket items that I'm sure he'll pick up on his own
as the need arises...
Good luck to you and your son! Maybe we'll see him on here!
Dekker
www.WoodworkDetails.com
Byrd wrote:
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His
> plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off
> with top of the line equipment.
>
> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
> some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
> table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>
> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
> Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and vibratory
> sander, and some handtools.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
> set-ups, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
>
>
Oh yes, I forgot to mention: SAFETY!
A $5 pair of clear glasses, a $5 package of dust masks, and a $30 pair
of over-the-ear hearing protectors.
All those power tools make a ton of noise, and though none of them
(except maybe the router) are overly loud on their own, over extended
periods they can cause damage. Wood dust (particularly that of certain
species) has been shown to be carcinogenic. And even I have been glad to
have been wearing goggles, my worst (though not that bad) experience
being given a big welt and cut under my right eye as a small corner/tip
of wood was kicked back into my face with enough force to stun me for a
moment! My father even heard the slap over the machine noise!
Dekker
www.WoodworkDetails.com
Dekker wrote:
> Hi Bob
>
> Glad to have another hobbyist join the club! Most people cut their teeth
> doing general around-the-house fix-ups before getting the gumption to
> try a "museum piece".
>
> But as for your question, were you asking for lists of tools that would
> be recommended for a successful "minimal" shop, or were you asking for
> shop layouts (an organizational question)?
>
> If you meant recommended tools, you're going to get quite a few
> responses, each flavored by everyone's expertise or preference. I'll
> chip in my two cents worth... I'd go with the following, pretty much in
> this order until you've reached your major tool budget
>
> ** Table Saw - Probably the most-used tool
> ** Power Drill - Probably tied with the table saw
> ** Sander - Can get by with a hand/block sander, but a palm sander will
> save your son time and frustration
> ** Circular Saw - This is a poor-man's sliding compound, so you might
> not need this for your son, but it comes in handy when cutting large 4x8
> panels down to size by yourself
> ** Router - Most cabinet work can be improved by better joints, and the
> router is pretty darned hard to beat for speedy and accurate joint
> formation
>
> The last here are optional toys, and depend on what your son thinks he
> will get into
>
> ** Bandsaw - This would allow him to either cut fancy curves into pieces
> if used with a thin blade, or to economically reduce the size of large
> boards if used with a thick blade
> ** Scroll Saw - Kind-of a mini-bandsaw, just for curve/scroll work
> ** Jigsaw - Great for free-hand cutting jobs, and cheap to boot.
> Essentially a power hand-saw.
> ** Drill Press - Great for mortising
>
> And as for hand tools, he might have some of these, but here's my
> preferred list anyway...
>
> ** Claw hammer
> ** 6" Speed Square
> ** Retractable tape (he's gotta already have one of these...)
> ** Level (you want those cabinets level, right?)
> ** Screwdrivers (all 3 sizes of all 3 types, Flat, Phillips (cross) and
> Robertson(square))
>
> The rest are small-ticket items that I'm sure he'll pick up on his own
> as the need arises...
>
> Good luck to you and your son! Maybe we'll see him on here!
>
> Dekker
> www.WoodworkDetails.com
>
>
> Byrd wrote:
>> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little
>> experience. His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some
>> hand tools etc. He doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously
>> won't be able to start off with top of the line equipment.
>>
>> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
>> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build
>> her some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames,
>> picnic table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>>
>> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table
>> saw, Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt
>> and vibratory sander, and some handtools.
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic
>> shop set-ups, etc?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Bob
>>
>>
On Apr 6, 3:29 am, "Byrd" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His
> plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off
> with top of the line equipment.
>
> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
> some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
> table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>
> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
> Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and vibratory
> sander, and some handtools.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
> set-ups, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
First of all, safety gear. That includes keeping crap out of your
lungs, either via a good mask, or a collection set-up along WITH a
mask...you can walk on a wooden leg, eat with false teeth, but you
can't see a thing with a glass eye.
As Swingman and a few others have pointed out in the past, THE most
important thing in building stuff like you mentioned, is BE SQUARE!
(And be in a position to be repeatable...tables have 4 legs, shelves
have many levels the same etc...)
Squareness, and derivatives of 90 degrees are an absolute requirement
for things to fit.
So, my list probably focuses more on that facet of woodworking:
A good quality table saw with a good fence (I think Biesemeyer and
clones are simple, cheap and rugged.)
A contractor saw from General comes to mind. Surprisingly good quality
saws can be had in the 'contractor' variety. I would rather have a
General contractor saw than a Delta (new) Unisaw. But enough about me.
Make a nice-sized outfeed table and side extensions, making sure it is
all flat and square. The Biesemeyer fences can be had with nice long
rails which allow you to build extensions between them.
The side extensions make great router tables and you get to use the
fence of the saw. You will need a router.
Then, make an accurate sled for the table saw. That will do a lot for
cutting smaller things to length and SQUARE. (A sliding CMS is nice,
but no need right away. It is portable.)
Next, a biscuit jointer, maybe augmented by a Kreg pocket-cutting jig.
You can do a lot, and save money, by going the dowel route.... that's
an option... but bicuits are easy to learn and pocket-holes are very
versatile.
The Kreg lets you build things without the hefty investment of a load
of clamps... but you WILL need clamps.
Do not skimp on clamps. Better a few good ones than too many crappy
ones. Cabinet Masters in my shop, but Bessy makes great clamps too, as
does Stabil. ( Big clamps clamp small things, small clamps clamp only
small things.. anything below 48" is 'small'.) Pipe clamps are okay
for some dirt-work, like laying up boards, which you'll machine later,
but they suck for assembling finished goods, they won't keep things
SQUARE.
Unless you're going to buy pre-dimensioned materials, such as plywood
and hardwood from HD etc, you will need a planer. Delta makes a nice
13" that I am very pleased with. IIRC its number is 22-580.
Then, a drill press can be made to do a lot of work.
The rest, as Lew Hodgett pointed out, will make their requirement
known out of thin air as the need arises.
The hard part is justifying the cost of things that aren't 'obvious'
in their role. Such things as quality saw blades and clamps.
The stuff you'll need for finishing? Sky is the limit.
YMMV.
> Buy tools on an as needed, project by project basis.
I'll throw in another vote for this idea. Your collection of tools
depends a LOT on what type of furniture you're building - I'd
recommend starting with a few small projects that can be completed
with very basic tools, and see what type of work you like doing, and
build your tool collection accordingly AS NEEDED. It's easy to spend
a lot of money on tools because they're nice and they look neat, which
may or may not end up being useful.
For me, space is very limited, so I don't have a table saw, but a 16"
bandsaw doesn't take up much floor space, and is very effective for
rip cuts and a variety of other operations. A very short list of
other tools/equipment I use on almost every project includes:
workbench, shop vac, handheld circular saw, cordless drill, drill
press, router + table, jack plane, low-angle block plane, chisels, and
a variety of clamps.
I'd also strongly suggest getting your son several books - used or
library can save money, and look in the archives here or Amazon
reviews for specific suggestions. I'd suggest something on properties
of wood (often found in intros to other books), something specifically
on the major tool(s) he starts with, some joinery/techniques books,
something with a lot of pictures of wood and completed projects for
inspiration, and a good finishing book. A published plan or book with
plans can be a good place to start also.
Good luck, and remember that for most of us making furniture is a more
rewarding hobby than tool collecting,
Andy
On Apr 6, 2:54 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
[snip]
> The craft is
> much more in the craftsman than in the tools!!!
>
Poppycock & balderdash!
Now try to envision the results when a craftsman, by your definition,
has access to quality equipment.
Many things woodworkers accomplish, would be nigh impossible without
the assistance of decent tools.
Imagine, if you will, the attempt to take off a strip of 1/8" x 1 5/8
x 96" off the side of a 2x4 with a hand-saw.
Put that hand-saw in the hands of a skilled craftsman and compare the
results *I* will get with relatively ordinary table saw.
I agree that there will be a difference if both of us were to use a
hand saws.
However, the end result of a decent wood working project will be
accomplished more easily and better by a semi-skilled craftsman with
proper and adequate equipment than by Maloof with an ax.
.
.
.
.
.
..unless the end result was SUPPOSED to look like a piece of Maloof ax-
work... and that is assuming Maloof is a craftsman as opposed to an
artist.
r
One other thing the original poster mentioned, that his son was
considering a sliding miter saw. In my not-so-humble opinion, these
are not best choice for woodworking. They're great if you are doing
general carpentry. However, the ones that I've used (Dewalt, Makita)
are not as accurate as a standard compound miter saw. I suspect all
SCMS's are inherently less accurate than CMS's due to all the extra
linkages. Also, considering the large, awkward footprint and double
the cost I would get a standard CMS and spend the saved $$$ on
something with more utility.
On Apr 6, 4:30 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> > Now try to envision the results when a craftsman, by your definition,
> > has access to quality equipment.
>
> I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest
> "quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again. High
> quality tools don't guarantee quality craftsmanship. Recommending to
> someone starting out that they "need" a Beissemer fence is just flat out
> ridiculous!
You are kidding me, right? A Biesemeyer, or clone, is one of the most
basic, fundamentally 'must have' pieces of equipment in any woodshop.
There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't think
a more basic piece of gear exists. How are you going to achieve ANY
kind of accuracy unless you have a good fence?
> I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest
> "quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again.
They wouldn't BE 'craftsmen', now would they?! They are just posers.
Give a monkey a Leigh dovetail jig, and he's going to be a monkey,
isn't he?
Quality equipment will yield a better result than crap equipment, as
long as we keep the monkey out of the equation, right? If we take a
reasonably competent woodworker and let him loose in a good shop, I am
confident he will produce a better product than if he was in a shop
full of crappy gear.... I mean, let's face it, we agree more than not.
Buying a Festool Domino will not guarantee that some clown won't use
it to polish a turd.
On Apr 6, 5:55 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>
> LOL! "Must have pieces"?? Next your going to tell the guy he needs to go
> out and buy a domino or a multi-router right? Why stop there, tell him he
> needs a CNC machine! You're too funny Robo!
Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of
those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A
Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you can't
live without, lest you start making junk!
>
> > There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't think
> > a more basic piece of gear exists.
>
> More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine?
>
Is there a fence which is MORE basic than a Biesemeyer? (Not including
a stick)
My fence is 12-foot long. Is that weird?
r
On Apr 6, 7:29 pm, "Brent Beal" <[email protected]> wrote:
> All of this poppycock about 'craftsman", tools, etc. BS. Man was considered
> a craftsman from his ability to do something really nice and appealing from
> his brain, through his hands and then through the material he worked in. How
> did "craftsmen" come about 50-100-150, even 1000 yrs. ago with out electric
> tools?
Where did I say that one needs electric tools in order to become a
craftsman?
A craftsman with quality tools will put out a better product than one
without any quality tools.
Is this hard?
On Apr 6, 9:26 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> > Where did I say that one needs electric tools in order to become a
> > craftsman?
> > A craftsman with quality tools will put out a better product than one
> > without any quality tools.
>
> You are STILL (gasp) missing the point. "Quality tools" does NOT equal
> "better product".
It does, assuming we're talking about 'craftsmen'.
Unless you want to start handicapping one of the craftsmen. A quality
tool will never compensate for incompetence.
Okay. The craftsman (we agree that we are talking about 'craftsmen'?)
without the table-saw will put out the same quality/straight cut as
the guy who uses a Biesemeyer fence on a table saw.
The craftsman without the router table will make 5-piece doors with
the same precision as the craftsman who has a router table.
Remember, they're both craftsmen.
Now, we give both of these craftsmen a table saw. One has a nice, true
WW2 blade and a Biesemeyer.
The other has a bent, rusty blade with a 1/4" run-out and a stick.
Both are asked to cut a 16" x 16" square out of 2' x 2' slab of 2"
oak.
I have a feeling that MY craftsman will cut a better piece.
On Apr 6, 10:46 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>
> If both are craftsmen like you say, then the one with the rusty blade would
> replace his blade. He would realize he has run-out and fix it.
I see, we're upgrading this comparison with more quality.
He would make it a 'quality' device vs a rusty ol' device? He would
'change' the argument?
> Both would cut just as accurately.
This is getting sillier by the minute, as I forgot to tell you that
your craftsman has a bent shaft as well.
You see, his wasn't a quality saw.
> What makes you think that a cheap fence, correctly aligned, is any less
> capable than a Biesemeyer fence??
>
A Biesemeyer, or clone, *IS* a cheap fence.
On Apr 7, 10:50 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Like this:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/284.jpg
>
> Circa 1540,
1540.... is that a SleepNumber?
=0)
On Apr 7, 10:53 am, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> There does seem to be a relationship between quality tools and quality
> of result, but I'm fairly certain that a major component of that
> relationship is the level of knowledge and experience of the person
> who chooses the tool.
>
The variable wasn't the craftsman. The craftsman was a constant in my
argument.
The quality of the tool will help and enhance the skills of that
particular craftsman.
When one brings productivity into the mix, well...end of story.
But I guess it is possible to take down a 12 x 6 oak board from 6/4 to
4/4 with a sanding block.
:0}
On Apr 7, 8:26 am, "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Apr 6, 10:46 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> .
>
> > This is getting sillier by the minute, as I forgot to tell you that
> > your craftsman has a bent shaft as well.
> > You see, his wasn't a quality saw.
>
> Then again, as the old argument goes, a craftsman would know how to get good
> results anyway... and never blame his tools. ;~)
>
> John
The constant improvement in tools over the centuries would indicate
that many craftsmen, at one point or another, dropped his arms and
sighed: "If that $%^^%#$^ plane just had a longer shoe"..... "I could
do so much better!!!"
The evolution of tool quality indicates to me that craftsmen were
always looking for a more accurate and better way.
Improvement of productivity came along as a way to justify the expense
of those quality tools.
But it was the craftsmen who wanted and needed the quality tools to
improve their work.
At NO time did I suggest that buying a quality tool will turn a nOOb
into a craftsman.... but it WILL help him in putting out better
results.
> Then again, as the old argument goes, a craftsman would know how to get good
> results anyway... and never blame his tools. ;~)
That is a whole different kettle of fish. If I blow a chord during a
session, I would never blame my guitar... I would turn it into a
feature. A craftsman knows how to cover his screw-ups better than a
nOOb.
On Apr 7, 2:03 pm, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2007 17:46:26 -0700, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of
> >those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A
> >Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you can't
> >live without, lest you start making junk!
>
> Funny, there are a lot of people out there making really nice things
> without a Biesemeyer. My father, for example, did some really amazing
> work and never owned better than a benchtop saw.
Brian, Brian...can't you tell when I am being silly?
On Apr 7, 2:06 pm, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:26:21 -0400, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> >You are STILL (gasp) missing the point. "Quality tools" does NOT equal
> >"better product".
>
> Exactly true. You can take a skilled woodworker, give them crap tools
> and they'll still make good projects, but you can't take a new
> woodworker, stick them in Norm's shop, and have them make anything but
> crap. Tools don't make the man, the man makes the tools.
Now take that 'man makes the the tools' and give him good ones.
THAT was MY point.
On Apr 8, 3:15 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> What you say about the fence is true. I had a Craftsman saw for years with a
> less than good fence. Could do good work with it, just had to be careful.
> Makes you appreciate a nice one when you get it.
>
But why bother? Just for toy value?
On Apr 8, 4:39 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Because that's what I had. It would seem that, by your logic, I should have
> just resigned myself to doing crapy work as my tools were not top of the
> line. Glad I don't think like you (and so is my boss).
>
<<<<BUZZER<<<<<
Wrong guy. You are confusing me with Stoutman. What *I* said at the
beginning of the thread was:
"A good quality table saw with a good fence (I think Biesemeyer and
clones are simple, cheap and rugged.) "
Then Stoutman responded that my suggestion was WAY over the top; that
a Biesemeyer fence wasn't needed for quality work... that he was happy
using a stick.
=================
I support quality gear for the craftsmen because they will do a better
job (Of course assuming they're up to the job to begin with.)
And you're right, you don't think like I do...just for different
reasons than those you infer.
On Apr 8, 10:32 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ever thought of going into politics? You'd fit right in.
>
..and what would compel you to utter such an insult?
Dekker wrote:
> Oh yes, I forgot to mention: SAFETY!
>
> A $5 pair of clear glasses, a $5 package of dust masks, and a $30 pair
> of over-the-ear hearing protectors.
>
> All those power tools make a ton of noise, and though none of them
> (except maybe the router) are overly loud on their own, over extended
> periods they can cause damage. Wood dust (particularly that of certain
> species) has been shown to be carcinogenic. And even I have been glad to
> have been wearing goggles, my worst (though not that bad) experience
> being given a big welt and cut under my right eye as a small corner/tip
> of wood was kicked back into my face with enough force to stun me for a
> moment! My father even heard the slap over the machine noise!
>
> Dekker
> www.WoodworkDetails.com
>
> Dekker wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob
>>
>> Glad to have another hobbyist join the club! Most people cut their
>> teeth doing general around-the-house fix-ups before getting the
>> gumption to try a "museum piece".
>>
>> But as for your question, were you asking for lists of tools that
>> would be recommended for a successful "minimal" shop, or were you
>> asking for shop layouts (an organizational question)?
>>
>> If you meant recommended tools, you're going to get quite a few
>> responses, each flavored by everyone's expertise or preference. I'll
>> chip in my two cents worth... I'd go with the following, pretty much
>> in this order until you've reached your major tool budget
>>
>> ** Table Saw - Probably the most-used tool
>> ** Power Drill - Probably tied with the table saw
>> ** Sander - Can get by with a hand/block sander, but a palm sander
>> will save your son time and frustration
>> ** Circular Saw - This is a poor-man's sliding compound, so you might
>> not need this for your son, but it comes in handy when cutting large
>> 4x8 panels down to size by yourself
>> ** Router - Most cabinet work can be improved by better joints, and
>> the router is pretty darned hard to beat for speedy and accurate joint
>> formation
>>
>> The last here are optional toys, and depend on what your son thinks he
>> will get into
>>
>> ** Bandsaw - This would allow him to either cut fancy curves into
>> pieces if used with a thin blade, or to economically reduce the size
>> of large boards if used with a thick blade
>> ** Scroll Saw - Kind-of a mini-bandsaw, just for curve/scroll work
>> ** Jigsaw - Great for free-hand cutting jobs, and cheap to boot.
>> Essentially a power hand-saw.
>> ** Drill Press - Great for mortising
>>
>> And as for hand tools, he might have some of these, but here's my
>> preferred list anyway...
>>
>> ** Claw hammer
>> ** 6" Speed Square
>> ** Retractable tape (he's gotta already have one of these...)
>> ** Level (you want those cabinets level, right?)
>> ** Screwdrivers (all 3 sizes of all 3 types, Flat, Phillips (cross)
>> and Robertson(square))
>>
>> The rest are small-ticket items that I'm sure he'll pick up on his own
>> as the need arises...
>>
>> Good luck to you and your son! Maybe we'll see him on here!
>>
>> Dekker
>> www.WoodworkDetails.com
>>
>>
>> Byrd wrote:
>>
>>> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little
>>> experience. His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some
>>> hand tools etc. He doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously
>>> won't be able to start off with top of the line equipment.
>>>
>>> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
>>> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to
>>> build her some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture
>>> frames, picnic table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack
>>> chairs, etc.
>>>
>>> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table
>>> saw, Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt
>>> and vibratory sander, and some handtools.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic
>>> shop set-ups, etc?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
A shop vac and lots of clamps.
j4
Byrd wrote:
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experienc=
e.=A0=A0His
> plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He=
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to st=
art off
> with top of the line equipment.
So far, responses have listed a lot of power tools, but no jointer or p=
laner -
not even a hand plane. No chisels, no scrapers.
IOW, what you've got is a list of carpentry tools, not woodworking tool=
s,
although of course they can be used for both.
But hardwood, unlike construction lumber, comes in random sizes and rou=
gh
edges. Your son will be reduced to buying a limited selection of hardw=
ood at
Home Depot, etc. at greatly inflated prices per board foot. A few hund=
red
board feet purchased like that and he'll have spent the money required =
for
the jointer and planer :-).
But I do agree with the poster that said buy tools as you need them. D=
on't go
out and get a fully equipped shop to start with. Your son may find out=
he
doesn't like woodworking :-).
--=20
It's turtles, all the way down
Stoutman wrote:
>
> Cheap is relative.
Aha! Something we can agree on! ... ALL of my relatives are cheap!
;-)
Bill
--
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Bill in Detroit wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Aha! Something we can agree on! ... ALL of my relatives are cheap!
>
> If you can also hear them coming from 5 miles away, they are not only
> cheap, they are cheap and tight.
>
> Lew
Well, they are usually pretty tight, but nothing they can't sleep off.
'Course, I stopped letting them sleep in the dog house because they kept
giving the dog fleas.
Bill
--
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Bill in Detroit wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, they are usually pretty tight, but nothing they can't sleep off.
>
> Had an uncle who was so tight he squeaked.
>
> You could hear him coming from 5 miles away.
>
> So cheap he never drank, even other peoples. <-- good line, btw
>
> Lew
>
That ain't tight. My I had an Uncle who was so tight that when he played
"pull my finger", nothing happened.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Basic advantage of the human is a brain.
>
> Biggest problem is getting them to use it.
>
> Lew
Lew
You're on a roll today!
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CW wrote:
> Sure he will. I can turn out a fine piece of work with a file. I can do it
> faster with a milling machine. I can do it even faster with a CNC mill. Each
> tool is more expensive and sophisticated than the former. For a single
> piece, the only advantage of one over another is speed.
>
I've seen lots of times when the manual guy was done before the program
could be written for an operation ... much less fixtured, setup and run.
At 'Quantity One', the math gets very uncertain because you are always
making the first piece.
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"Martin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:SYyRh.41$jG5.4@trndny09...
> Byrd wrote:
>> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience.
>> His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
>> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start
>> off with top of the line equipment.
>>
Hi Martin,
The *cheapest* way to get into woodworking is to find a school with a
woodshop that will let him use it. (The local college here has a woodshop
with nice tools for $45 / three month membership.) If he really gets into
woodworking he can wean himself off of the school's shop by slowly buying
the tools he uses the most there. This strategy may help him avoid the
mistake of buying tools he rarely uses...
SailorDave
Byrd wrote:
| My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little
| experience. His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some
| hand tools etc. He doesn't have a whole lot of money so he
| obviously won't be able to start off with top of the line equipment.
|
| He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
| storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to
| build her some shelf units for their family room, maybe some
| picture frames, picnic table and some outdoor furniture like
| Adirondack chairs, etc.
|
| I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a
| Table saw, Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill,
| a belt and vibratory sander, and some handtools.
|
| Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to
| basic shop set-ups, etc?
Bob...
Just a thought - you might consider an inexpensive benchtop band saw
for a birthday or Christmas gift for making items like the Adirondack
chairs. If he becomes serious about woodworking, then he'll probably
replace it with a better tool, but even the inexpensive one will make
some stuff _much_ easier.
Other than that I think your list makes a good starter kit.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
"Byrd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience.
> His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start
> off with top of the line equipment.
>
> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
> some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
> table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>
> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
> Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and
> vibratory sander, and some handtools.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
> set-ups, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
Buy a contractor's table saw with a cast iron top (no aluminum!). A decent
router (mounted in a router table), finish sander and cordless drill. That
should get him started.
I made this table with only the above tools when I started out in a VERY
small shed:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/table1.htm
--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com
>
> Now try to envision the results when a craftsman, by your definition,
> has access to quality equipment.
>
I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest
"quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again. High
quality tools don't guarantee quality craftsmanship. Recommending to
someone starting out that they "need" a Beissemer fence is just flat out
ridiculous!
>> I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest
>> "quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again.
>> High
>> quality tools don't guarantee quality craftsmanship. Recommending to
>> someone starting out that they "need" a Beissemer fence is just flat out
>> ridiculous!
>
> You are kidding me, right? A Biesemeyer, or clone, is one of the most
> basic, fundamentally 'must have' pieces of equipment in any woodshop.
LOL! "Must have pieces"?? Next your going to tell the guy he needs to go
out and buy a domino or a multi-router right? Why stop there, tell him he
needs a CNC machine! You're too funny Robo!
> There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't think
> a more basic piece of gear exists.
More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine?
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/woodshop.htm
>How are you going to achieve ANY
> kind of accuracy unless you have a good fence?
An accurate fence must be a Beis or Beis clone?? I can make an accurate
fence from a stick of maple and a few clamps!!
>> I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest
>> "quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again.
>
> They wouldn't BE 'craftsmen', now would they?! They are just posers.
> Give a monkey a Leigh dovetail jig, and he's going to be a monkey,
> isn't he?
Re-read my statement that you poppycocked!
> Quality equipment will yield a better result than crap equipment, as
> long as we keep the monkey out of the equation, right? If we take a
> reasonably competent woodworker and let him loose in a good shop, I am
> confident he will produce a better product than if he was in a shop
> full of crappy gear.... I mean, let's face it, we agree more than not.
> Buying a Festool Domino will not guarantee that some clown won't use
> it to polish a turd.
>
>
> Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of
> those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A
> Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you can't
> live without, lest you start making junk!
I live without a Bies every time a make a project. My stuff is FAR from
junk.
>> > There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't think
>> > a more basic piece of gear exists.
>>
>> More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine?
>>
> Is there a fence which is MORE basic than a Biesemeyer? (Not including
> a stick)
YES! My fence.
>
> My fence is 12-foot long. Is that weird?
>
> r
>
>
> Remember, they're both craftsmen.
> Now, we give both of these craftsmen a table saw. One has a nice, true
> WW2 blade and a Biesemeyer.
> The other has a bent, rusty blade with a 1/4" run-out and a stick.
> Both are asked to cut a 16" x 16" square out of 2' x 2' slab of 2"
> oak.
If both are craftsmen like you say, then the one with the rusty blade would
replace his blade. He would realize he has run-out and fix it.
Both would cut just as accurately.
What makes you think that a cheap fence, correctly aligned, is any less
capable than a Biesemeyer fence??
>
>
> I have a feeling that MY craftsman will cut a better piece.
>
> I see, we're upgrading this comparison with more quality.
> He would make it a 'quality' device vs a rusty ol' device? He would
> 'change' the argument?
No. We are restoring the saw to it's original configuration (which would
have been no rusty blade and no run-out).
It was a poor analogy to begin with.
>
>> Both would cut just as accurately.
>
> This is getting sillier by the minute, as I forgot to tell you that
> your craftsman has a bent shaft as well.
> You see, his wasn't a quality saw.
Sillier indeed.
>
>
>> What makes you think that a cheap fence, correctly aligned, is any less
>> capable than a Biesemeyer fence??
>>
>
> A Biesemeyer, or clone, *IS* a cheap fence.
Cheap is relative.
>
>
>
Stoutman wrote:
|| Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of
|| those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A
|| Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you
|| can't live without, lest you start making junk!
|
| I live without a Bies every time a make a project. My stuff is FAR
| from junk.
|
|||| There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't
|||| think a more basic piece of gear exists.
|||
||| More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine?
|||
|| Is there a fence which is MORE basic than a Biesemeyer? (Not
|| including a stick)
|
| YES! My fence.
|
|| My fence is 12-foot long. Is that weird?
Hmm. This is beginning to look like a religious war. Seems to me that
even true masters might choose different tools to suit their
individual talents, personal preferences, and the tasks they take on.
For all users, from new apprentice to master craftsman, the major
advantage of power tools is productivity (getting more work done in
less time).
There does seem to be a relationship between quality tools and quality
of result, but I'm fairly certain that a major component of that
relationship is the level of knowledge and experience of the person
who chooses the tool.
Note that I said: "the person who chooses the tool" and not: "the
person who purchases the tool".
[ Dos centavos ]
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Robatoy wrote:
| On Apr 7, 10:53 am, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote:
|
|| There does seem to be a relationship between quality tools and
|| quality of result, but I'm fairly certain that a major component
|| of that relationship is the level of knowledge and experience of
|| the person who chooses the tool.
|
| The variable wasn't the craftsman. The craftsman was a constant in
| my argument.
| The quality of the tool will help and enhance the skills of that
| particular craftsman.
I might buy your argument for one specific craftsman and one specific
tool.
My point is that any generalizations extended to other craftsmen
and/or other tools are questionable.
| When one brings productivity into the mix, well...end of story.
| But I guess it is possible to take down a 12 x 6 oak board from 6/4
| to 4/4 with a sanding block.
And yet it seems to me that a craftsman is unlikely to be a person
with any love for wasting time or effort. I imagine him taking the
time and expending the effort to complete the job at hand to the
highest standards - but not more of either than necessary. If that's
correct, then productivity /is/ a part of the mix.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
You're wrong. Human beings make errors. Quality tools for the most part
contribute to minimizing those errors. A lower quality tool takes extra care
to get it to work properly and humans being the imperfect beings they are
will sometimes neglect or fail to take that extra care that a higher quality
tool doesn't need.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message ..
> No, he'll just do it faster.
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A craftsman with quality tools will put out a better product than one
> > without any quality tools.
> > Is this hard?
Sure he will. I can turn out a fine piece of work with a file. I can do it
faster with a milling machine. I can do it even faster with a CNC mill. Each
tool is more expensive and sophisticated than the former. For a single
piece, the only advantage of one over another is speed.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
> > No, he'll just do it faster.
>
> Not really.
>
> It has long been established that human beings do a lousy job with
> repetitive tasks, that's why automation, thus tooling.
>
> Basic advantage of the human is a brain.
>
> Biggest problem is getting them to use it.
>
> Lew
All of this poppycock about 'craftsman", tools, etc. BS. Man was considered
a craftsman from his ability to do something really nice and appealing from
his brain, through his hands and then through the material he worked in. How
did "craftsmen" come about 50-100-150, even 1000 yrs. ago with out electric
tools?
"Bruce Barnett" wrote in message
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > "Robatoy" wrote in message
> > http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/284.jpg
> >
> > Circa 1540, shortly before Sears put the "craft" in "Craftsman", thereby
> > giving him NO excuse whatsoever for blaming his tools?
>
> Versailles? Nice place, but a triffle gaudy.
Chateau de Chenonceau ... but the same applies. Things probably smelled so
bad as a rule that "gaudy" was a relief.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
No, he'll just do it faster.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A craftsman with quality tools will put out a better product than one
> without any quality tools.
> Is this hard?
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Sure he will. I can turn out a fine piece of work with a file. I can do it
> faster with a milling machine. I can do it even faster with a CNC mill. Each
> tool is more expensive and sophisticated than the former. For a single
> piece, the only advantage of one over another is speed.
Accuracy and the resulting motivation are major advantages. I too,
could, theoretically, get the same accuracy with a file, but I
wouldn't have the patience to see the project through to completion,
rendering the comparison moot.
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > CW wrote:
> >
> > > No, he'll just do it faster.
> >
> > Not really.
> >
> > It has long been established that human beings do a lousy job with
> > repetitive tasks, that's why automation, thus tooling.
> >
> > Basic advantage of the human is a brain.
> >
> > Biggest problem is getting them to use it.
> >
> > Lew
>
>
>
And he'll do things faster than he did before.
So, speed is what you're after?
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now take that 'man makes the the tools' and give him good ones.
> THAT was MY point.
>
Byrd wrote:
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His
> plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off
> with top of the line equipment.
>
> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
> some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
> table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>
> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
> Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and vibratory
> sander, and some handtools.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
> set-ups, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
>
I was in your boat about 12 years ago (but I was the new woodworker!!).
I has a few tools for around the house repairs and such, but when I
decided to branch out, I did not know just what tools I needed
(wanted!!!) so rather then just buy a bunch of tools (and waste my
money) I decided to buy tools as I needed them. Believe it or not
the first major tool was a good drill press (I needed to accurately
drill some holes and after using my Porter Cable hand drill without a
lot of success) I bought the drill press.
The only "real" wood working tool I had was 10 year old radial arm saw
and circular saw. I started reading magazines and buying books to
understand all of the tools that were available and what they were used
for. Especially important were the tool reviews/comparisons in magazines
(Fine Woodworking, Popular Woodworking, American Woodworker to name a
few). I started with simple projects like your sons wants to do.
Others in this news group will go through the list of needed tools all
of which are based upon personnel use and choice so I won't repeat the
good advise that will be provided here.
I do strongly believe that your son should buy the best tools he can
afford but don't buy cheap (just to have the tool) off brand stuff that
may not last or may injure someone because it is of marginal quality. It
is better to wait and spend more $$ for a good tool that will last for
many years rather than junk (and there is a lot of junk out there).
Finally, getting good tools will reduce the frustration having to deal
with a tools marginal accuracy and enable your son to really enjoy the
woodworking hobby.
Oh yes one more thing, if he can, have him subscribe to this newsgroup,
he will find a great bunch of people here that more then willing
to assist with any questions he may have. Especially about what tools
to buy :-).
Marty
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2:54 pm, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> The craft is
>> much more in the craftsman than in the tools!!!
>>
>
> Poppycock & balderdash!
>
> Now try to envision the results when a craftsman, by your
> definition, has access to quality equipment.
>
> Many things woodworkers accomplish, would be nigh impossible
> without the assistance of decent tools.
>
> Imagine, if you will, the attempt to take off a strip of 1/8" x
> 1 5/8 x 96" off the side of a 2x4 with a hand-saw.
> Put that hand-saw in the hands of a skilled craftsman and
> compare the results *I* will get with relatively ordinary table
> saw.
>
> I agree that there will be a difference if both of us were to
> use a hand saws.
>
> However, the end result of a decent wood working project will be
> accomplished more easily and better by a semi-skilled craftsman
> with proper and adequate equipment than by Maloof with an ax.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> ..unless the end result was SUPPOSED to look like a piece of
> Maloof ax- work... and that is assuming Maloof is a craftsman as
> opposed to an artist.
Even so, I'd love to see something made by Maloof using only an ax.
It'd be a novelty, sure, but probably an impressive novelty.
What you say about the fence is true. I had a Craftsman saw for years with a
less than good fence. Could do good work with it, just had to be careful.
Makes you appreciate a nice one when you get it.
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oh, one more thing. I think I have made some pretty decent stuff and I
> still don't own a Biesemeyer fence (or a top notch table saw)! The craft
is
> much more in the craftsman than in the tools!!!
>
> --
> Stoutman
> www.garagewoodworks.com
>
>
Stoutman wrote:
>> I see, we're upgrading this comparison with more quality.
>> He would make it a 'quality' device vs a rusty ol' device? He would
>> 'change' the argument?
>
> No. We are restoring the saw to it's original configuration (which
> would have been no rusty blade and no run-out).
>
> It was a poor analogy to begin with.
>
>>
>>> Both would cut just as accurately.
>>
>> This is getting sillier by the minute, as I forgot to tell you that
>> your craftsman has a bent shaft as well.
>> You see, his wasn't a quality saw.
>
> Sillier indeed.
>
>>
>>
>>> What makes you think that a cheap fence, correctly aligned, is any
>>> less capable than a Biesemeyer fence??
>>>
>>
>> A Biesemeyer, or clone, *IS* a cheap fence.
>
> Cheap is relative.
If you stack the deck far enough you can always contrive a scenario in
which all skill is in vain. That seems to be what your correspondent is
attempting. But such scenarios generally have little relevance to the
real world.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Because that's what I had. It would seem that, by your logic, I should have
just resigned myself to doing crapy work as my tools were not top of the
line. Glad I don't think like you (and so is my boss).
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 8, 3:15 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What you say about the fence is true. I had a Craftsman saw for years
with a
> > less than good fence. Could do good work with it, just had to be
careful.
> > Makes you appreciate a nice one when you get it.
> >
>
> But why bother? Just for toy value?
>
>
On 7 Apr 2007 11:13:17 -0700, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now take that 'man makes the the tools' and give him good ones.
>THAT was MY point.
It'll just make it easier, it won't make the work better. Try again.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sure he will. I can turn out a fine piece of work with a file. I can do it
> faster with a milling machine. I can do it even faster with a CNC mill.
> Each
> tool is more expensive and sophisticated than the former. For a single
> piece, the only advantage of one over another is speed.
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> CW wrote:
>>
>> > No, he'll just do it faster.
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> It has long been established that human beings do a lousy job with
>> repetitive tasks, that's why automation, thus tooling.
>>
>> Basic advantage of the human is a brain.
>>
>> Biggest problem is getting them to use it.
>>
>> Lew
I might have missed it but I haven't seen "frustration" mentioned. I hated
messing with the fence on my Craftsman table saw.
I was never satisfied with the cut of cheap saw blades.
I cursed drill chucks that were off center.
I went through three motors on a new Craftsman radial arm saw in order to
get one with tolerable runout.
An upgrade in quality can mean the difference between frustration and
enjoyment.
BTDT
Max
"Robatoy" wrote in message
> Now, we give both of these craftsmen a table saw. One has a nice, true
> WW2 blade and a Biesemeyer.
> The other has a bent, rusty blade with a 1/4" run-out and a stick.
> Both are asked to cut a 16" x 16" square out of 2' x 2' slab of 2"
> oak.
>
>
> I have a feeling that MY craftsman will cut a better piece.
Like this:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/284.jpg
Circa 1540, shortly before Sears put the "craft" in "Craftsman", thereby
giving him NO excuse whatsoever for blaming his tools?
;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
On 6 Apr 2007 17:46:26 -0700, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of
>those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A
>Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you can't
>live without, lest you start making junk!
Funny, there are a lot of people out there making really nice things
without a Biesemeyer. My father, for example, did some really amazing
work and never owned better than a benchtop saw.
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:26:21 -0400, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>You are STILL (gasp) missing the point. "Quality tools" does NOT equal
>"better product".
Exactly true. You can take a skilled woodworker, give them crap tools
and they'll still make good projects, but you can't take a new
woodworker, stick them in Norm's shop, and have them make anything but
crap. Tools don't make the man, the man makes the tools.
Hi Bob,
IMHO I would forget the belt sander. And spend the money for it and a
"vibratory" sander on a very good random orbital sander. Cheers, JG
"Byrd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience.
> His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start
> off with top of the line equipment.
>
> He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some
> storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her
> some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic
> table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
>
> I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw,
> Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and
> vibratory sander, and some handtools.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop
> set-ups, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
Ever thought of going into politics? You'd fit right in.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 8, 4:39 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Because that's what I had. It would seem that, by your logic, I should
have
> > just resigned myself to doing crapy work as my tools were not top of the
> > line. Glad I don't think like you (and so is my boss).
> >
>
> <<<<BUZZER<<<<<
>
> Wrong guy. You are confusing me with Stoutman. What *I* said at the
> beginning of the thread was:
>
> "A good quality table saw with a good fence (I think Biesemeyer and
> clones are simple, cheap and rugged.) "
>
>
> Then Stoutman responded that my suggestion was WAY over the top; that
> a Biesemeyer fence wasn't needed for quality work... that he was happy
> using a stick.
>
>
> =================
>
> I support quality gear for the craftsmen because they will do a better
> job (Of course assuming they're up to the job to begin with.)
>
> And you're right, you don't think like I do...just for different
> reasons than those you infer.
>
>
Byrd wrote:
> My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little
experience. His
> plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He
> doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to
start off
> with top of the line equipment.
<snip>
Learn to walk before trying to run.
Buy tools on an as needed, project by project basis.
Buy a decent contractors saw with the BEST fence money can buy (I like
Unifence).
Equip it with a good combination carbide tipped blade.
Buy safety equipment as needed.
STOP!
Set up the saw and play with it.
When you have that piece of wood in your hand and reach for the next
tool you don't have, it's time to go shopping.
My guess is that within 30 days, you will find a 6" ROS, cordless
drill and possibly a saber saw in your future.
After that, probably a router kit.
If you get this far, you are probably hooked.
Trying to forecast and purchase your tool needs ahead of time can get
to be VERY expensive in terms of money and storage space in a hurry.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket you just have to
spend, buy CLAMPS.
Above all, be safe and have fun.
Lew
"Swingman" <[email protected]> writes:
> "Robatoy" wrote in message
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/284.jpg
>
> Circa 1540, shortly before Sears put the "craft" in "Craftsman", thereby
> giving him NO excuse whatsoever for blaming his tools?
Versailles? Nice place, but a triffle gaudy.
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