Finishing Technique Seen On Festool Video - Why Does He Do It That Way?

On 10/6/2016 10:34 AM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2016 04:59:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 12:04:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>> krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>>>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>>>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>>>>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>>>>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>>>>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
>>>> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
>>>> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
>>>> live next to a freeway.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door jam.
>>> Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out from
>>> the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
>>> hindered as much as with a normal closed door.
>>
>> Open windows don't hinder sound very well either.
>>
>> Earlier this week SWMBO and I were walking the dog at around 10PM. As we walked
>> past a house with open windows we heard a female voice.
>>
>> Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Ohhhh......myyyyy......GGGGOOOODDDD!
>>
>> We assume she was praying.
>
> I would argue that a bedroom door wouldn't hinder such sounds very
> well, either. Interior doors are about sight and access (grease the
> doorknobs), not so much sound.
>

Either way, the doors can often not prohibit sight from curious eyes.
The doors can often be pushed away from the wall near the floor with as
little effort as opening a regular door if it is not latched. Not all
barn door installs, especially when two meet in the middle, have the
center floor mounted guide installed, to prevent a tripping hazard.

Great, if you like that look, for any room in the house, but IMHO not
for the bedroom or bathroom.




If you do not mind something that is a little better than a shower
curtain to provide privacy a barn door may be for you.

On 10/6/2016 12:04 AM, Leon wrote:
> krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>>
>>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>>
>>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>>
>>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>>
>> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
>> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
>> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
>> live next to a freeway.
>>
>
> The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door jam.
> Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out from
> the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
> hindered as much as with a normal closed door.
>
I have a situation in my kitchen that a barn door would be the perfect
solution to.
I have a poorly designed entry from the garage, that enters to laundry,
the basement door, the back door, and a kitchen entrance. due to facets
in the exterior their is no way to put a pocket door in to kill the
noise from the washer and dryer. there's no way to hang a door as it
just won't open without causing a problem. The barn door is the perfect
solution.

so you are clearly not thinking of EVERY situation, for me, it's the
only way to resolve this.

--
Jeff

krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>
>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>
>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>
>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>
>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>
>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>
>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>
> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
> live next to a freeway.
>

The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door jam.
Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out from
the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
hindered as much as with a normal closed door.

krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>
>> easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>>
>> all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>>
>>
>> but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>> barn doors
> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
> without the pocket.
>
> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>
> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>
> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>
>
>> guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>> much privacy
>>
> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
> bedrooms.
>

In real life, I have only seen 2 sliding barn doors that I recall. One was
on a master bedroom entry and the other I stalled on a master bath entry.
Personally I do not like them.

On 9/30/2016 4:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:20:52 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/30/2016 4:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
>>> receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
>>> staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
>>> stain where the rail and stile are glued together.
>>
>> On the video I'm watching he is staining the inside edge of the stile,
>> in between a top/bottom rail and the intermediate rail, and on what
>> appears to be door frame that is already assembled and glued.
>>
>> So, his operation does not appear to be necessary IMO, but I might be
>> missing something in the original question?
>
> No, you did not miss anything in my question. The technique for keeping
> the stain off of the panel caught my eye as something that I might use until
> it dawned on me that I couldn't figure out why he was even doing it.
>
>>
>> That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
>> use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
>> centered.
>>
>> Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
>> based stain that will get into the grooves during application?
>
> Then why not block the groove with a spare "panel" as a means to reduce
> the risk of getting *any* stain on the real panel?
>

Two reasons for staining the edge after assembly.

1. He forgot to stain before assembly.
2. He has not yet figured out to tape the joint intersections and pre
stain before assembly.

On 9/30/2016 4:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/30/16 4:05 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/30/2016 3:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/30/16 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
>>>>> exactly 2:00.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside
>>>>> edge of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on
>>>>> the panel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
>>>>> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the
>>>>> panel so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the
>>>>> uprights once they are attached.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because
>>>> he did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.
>>>>
>>>> I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain
>>>> and varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a
>>>> "little" bit of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the
>>>> joint to be bare wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess my question in his situation would be, "what glue?"
>>> For an inset panel door, the panel is supposed to move freely, correct.
>>> Even when making a table with breadboard ends, you're not supposed to
>>> glue and if you do, you only glue a small section.
>>
>> The glue at holds the rails and stiles together.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel & frame
>>> construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
>>> Isn't that correct or am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>> No glue in that joint, the glue would be in the rail and stile joint.
>
>
> Correct, but in that case you would do what you did and put masking tape
> over those sections.
> I don't see either technique taking any more time than the other, except
> that if you're already set up for staining you may as well tape the
> frame joints and do it all at once.
>
>
Yes, either he has not figured out taping or he forgot. Staining after
the fact as he is going will almost always result with dark stained
corners and the corners are tough to get to.

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 4:22:42 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/30/16 3:10 PM, dpb wrote:
> > Mayhaps this guy wanted to not get any inside the panel grooves, but I'd
> > not worry over that or if decided didn't want it, use a dummy piece of
> > ply/panel to fill the gap then.
> >
> > IOW, I think there is no good reason to have to do what he's doing there.
> >
>
> What he's doing in that video seems pretty quick and easy.
> I think he can do that faster than he could use a scrap of ply to fill
> the gap to do it before assembly.
> That might explain it. If he's done bunch of those, he's determined it
> faster and easier to do it that way.
>
> Personally, I'd be more concerned with the terrible stain
> matching/blotching. :-)
>
>

Well, actually, my headboard staining won't match because the wood starts
out as different colors and my daughter wants to keep it that way.

In fact, on the outside edges of the headboard, every other board is cut
short and a piece of "side grain" wood is inserted. These alternating pieces
will take the stain differently and "not match". I did this on the bunk beds
I built for the boys many years ago and my (now adult) daughter wants the
same look.

Thanks for the opinion on the finishing technique. I'll be doing mine
separately as planned.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>
>I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>
>Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>
>This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>privacy, so far ...

That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>
>I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.

Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
stick would solve that. ;-)
>
>https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:20:52 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/30/2016 4:08 PM, Leon wrote:
> > Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
> > receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
> > staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
> > stain where the rail and stile are glued together.
>
> On the video I'm watching he is staining the inside edge of the stile,
> in between a top/bottom rail and the intermediate rail, and on what
> appears to be door frame that is already assembled and glued.
>
> So, his operation does not appear to be necessary IMO, but I might be
> missing something in the original question?

No, you did not miss anything in my question. The technique for keeping
the stain off of the panel caught my eye as something that I might use until
it dawned on me that I couldn't figure out why he was even doing it.

>
> That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
> use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
> centered.
>
> Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
> based stain that will get into the grooves during application?

Then why not block the groove with a spare "panel" as a means to reduce
the risk of getting *any* stain on the real panel?

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:35:07 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 09/30/2016 4:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
> ...
>
> > Or, instead of keeping the fresh stain out of the grooves, he is trying
> > to keep it away from already dried stain on the panels.
>
> Think we're all agreed on that; question is "why would you need to if
> had just stained the edges with the rest of the stile?"

That sounds like you are assuming he stained the face of the stile before
assembly. I was assuming, based on the fact that he was staining the edge
after assembly, that he stained the face after assembly, then moved on
to the edge.


>
> Seems like an unneeded step to me, fer shure...plus, unless there was
> something unique about this one particular piece, he's got eight of
> those to do for every panel--that'll begin to add up even if not so much
> for the one...

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 8:54:08 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 09/30/2016 4:44 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> ...
>
> > That sounds like you are assuming he stained the face of the stile before
> > assembly. I was assuming, based on the fact that he was staining the edge
> > after assembly, that he stained the face after assembly, then moved on
> > to the edge.
> ...
>
> Well, if weren't going to do any of the finishing until after assembly,
> do it all at once't....looks like a waste step to me for whatever reason.
>
> But, it was his work so he can do it as he sees fit...I just don't have
> to follow along! :)

Oh, yeah, I agree. I'm just glad it looked strange to everyone else and
not just me. Maybe I am learning stuff. ;-)

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 4:33:08 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/30/16 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
> >> exactly 2:00.
> >>
> >> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
> >>
> >> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside
> >> edge of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on
> >> the panel.
> >>
> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
> >>
> >> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
> >> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the
> >> panel so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the
> >> uprights once they are attached.
> >>
> >> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
> >>
> >> Am I missing something?
> >>
> >
> > He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because
> > he did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.
> >
> > I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain
> > and varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a
> > "little" bit of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the
> > joint to be bare wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.
> >
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> I guess my question in his situation would be, "what glue?"
> For an inset panel door, the panel is supposed to move freely, correct.
> Even when making a table with breadboard ends, you're not supposed to
> glue and if you do, you only glue a small section.
>
> So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel & frame
> construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
> Isn't that correct or am I missing something?
>
>

If you watch the whole video, you'll see that he is building "barn doors".

Probably for one of Leon's high end clients. :-)

On 9/30/2016 5:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:28:56 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/30/2016 4:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:20:52 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2016 4:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
>>>>> receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
>>>>> staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
>>>>> stain where the rail and stile are glued together.
>>>>
>>>> On the video I'm watching he is staining the inside edge of the stile,
>>>> in between a top/bottom rail and the intermediate rail, and on what
>>>> appears to be door frame that is already assembled and glued.
>>>>
>>>> So, his operation does not appear to be necessary IMO, but I might be
>>>> missing something in the original question?
>>>
>>> No, you did not miss anything in my question. The technique for keeping
>>> the stain off of the panel caught my eye as something that I might use until
>>> it dawned on me that I couldn't figure out why he was even doing it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
>>>> use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
>>>> centered.
>>>>
>>>> Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
>>>> based stain that will get into the grooves during application?
>>>
>>> Then why not block the groove with a spare "panel" as a means to reduce
>>> the risk of getting *any* stain on the real panel?
>>>
>>
>> Two reasons for staining the edge after assembly.
>>
>> 1. He forgot to stain before assembly.
>> 2. He has not yet figured out to tape the joint intersections and pre
>> stain before assembly.
>
> Well, it is a Festool video, right from their website.
>
> Maybe he ran out of green tape.
>

Regardless of his steps to stain, finish, and or assemble the Domino
makes mortise and tenons very fast and easy.

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:28:56 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 9/30/2016 4:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:20:52 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
> >> On 9/30/2016 4:08 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>> Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
> >>> receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
> >>> staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
> >>> stain where the rail and stile are glued together.
> >>
> >> On the video I'm watching he is staining the inside edge of the stile,
> >> in between a top/bottom rail and the intermediate rail, and on what
> >> appears to be door frame that is already assembled and glued.
> >>
> >> So, his operation does not appear to be necessary IMO, but I might be
> >> missing something in the original question?
> >
> > No, you did not miss anything in my question. The technique for keeping
> > the stain off of the panel caught my eye as something that I might use until
> > it dawned on me that I couldn't figure out why he was even doing it.
> >
> >>
> >> That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
> >> use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
> >> centered.
> >>
> >> Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
> >> based stain that will get into the grooves during application?
> >
> > Then why not block the groove with a spare "panel" as a means to reduce
> > the risk of getting *any* stain on the real panel?
> >
>
> Two reasons for staining the edge after assembly.
>
> 1. He forgot to stain before assembly.
> 2. He has not yet figured out to tape the joint intersections and pre
> stain before assembly.

Well, it is a Festool video, right from their website.

Maybe he ran out of green tape.

On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 10:34:12 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
> On 10/6/2016 12:04 AM, Leon wrote:
> > krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of mone=
y
> >>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and ev=
eryone
> >>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requ=
ests.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when rec=
ently
> >>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
> >>>>> privacy, so far ...
> >>>>
> >>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
> >>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
> >>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
> >>>
> >>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost n=
o
> >>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
> >>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. T=
hey
> >>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
> >>
> >> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
> >> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
> >> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
> >> live next to a freeway.
> >>
> >
> > The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door =
jam.
> > Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out f=
rom
> > the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
> > hindered as much as with a normal closed door.
> >
> I have a situation in my kitchen that a barn door would be the perfect=20
> solution to.
> I have a poorly designed entry from the garage, that enters to laundry,=
=20
> the basement door, the back door, and a kitchen entrance. due to facets=
=20
> in the exterior their is no way to put a pocket door in to kill the=20
> noise from the washer and dryer. there's no way to hang a door as it=20
> just won't open without causing a problem. The barn door is the perfect=
=20
> solution.

re: doors that cause problems:

My parents moved into a senior living complex. 2 bedroom apartments, each=
=20
with their own bathroom. One bedroom had a door that swung 180=C2=B0 to sit=
flat
against the wall. Walkers and wheelchairs can roll right by and into the=20
bathroom.

The other bedroom had a door that only opened 90=C2=B0 before it was stoppe=
d by
the closet wall. When opened 90=C2=B0, it blocked the entrance to the bathr=
oom.
In addition, that bedroom had the larger bathroom, making it the best one f=
or=20
someone who needs a walker or a wheelchair or a helper.

Imagine a person with a walker or a wheelchair (or their helper) trying to=
=20
maneuver their way into the bathroom. Every time you wanted to use the=20
bathroom you had to do the "door dance". Go into room, clear the door,=20
close the door, use the bathroom, come out, clear the door, open the door,=
=20
etc. That's a pain for a fully-able person, imagine an impaired person=20
having to do that multiple times a day.

Somebody screwed up the design. If they had shortened the closet by about 4=
",
the door would have swung fully open just like the other one. It wasn't jus=
t=20
a case of a bad build in their apartment because every apartment was like=
=20
that.

We requested (firmly) that the door be replaced with a bifold door that
could be opened 180=C2=B0 so it could be left open and up against the wall.=
My parents were one of the first tenants in this new complex. As the place=
=20
filled up and my parents started telling others about their bifold doors,=
=20
the requests started pouring in to the complex manager. I'm sure it ate=20
into their first year's profits.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>
>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>
>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>
>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>> privacy, so far ...
>>
>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>
>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>
>Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>are more like a room divider on wheels.

Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
"Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
live next to a freeway.

On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
> exactly 2:00.
>
> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>
> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside edge
> of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on the panel.
>
> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained panel
> inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he stain the rails
> and stiles before inserting the panels?
>
> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the panel
> so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the uprights once
> they are attached.
>
> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>
> Am I missing something?
>


Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
stain where the rail and stile are glued together.

On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>
>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>
>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>
>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>> privacy, so far ...
>
> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>
>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>
> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>
>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA

Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
are more like a room divider on wheels.

On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
> realizes what a PITA they are.

I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.

Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.

This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
privacy, so far ...

I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.

https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 12:04:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
> >>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
> >>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
> >>>>
> >>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
> >>>>
> >>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
> >>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
> >>>> privacy, so far ...
> >>>
> >>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
> >>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
> >>>
> >>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
> >>> stick would solve that. ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
> >>
> >> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
> >> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
> >> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
> >> are more like a room divider on wheels.
> >
> > Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
> > luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
> > "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
> > live next to a freeway.
> >
>
> The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door jam.
> Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out from
> the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
> hindered as much as with a normal closed door.

Open windows don't hinder sound very well either.

Earlier this week SWMBO and I were walking the dog at around 10PM. As we walked
past a house with open windows we heard a female voice.

Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Ohhhh......myyyyy......GGGGOOOODDDD!

We assume she was praying.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 20:14:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/5/16 7:37 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>>
>>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>>
>>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>>
>>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>>
>> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
>> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
>> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
>> live next to a freeway.
>>
>
>Pretty easily solved by putting in a proper fu@%!ng door, yes. :-)

You're not a fan of pocket doors, either, I suppose? Unless Hillary is
elected, no one will force them on you. ;-)

On Thu, 6 Oct 2016 04:59:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 12:04:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>> >>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>> >>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>> >>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>> >>>> privacy, so far ...
>> >>>
>> >>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>> >>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>> >>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>> >>
>> >> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>> >> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>> >> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>> >> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>> >
>> > Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
>> > luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
>> > "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
>> > live next to a freeway.
>> >
>>
>> The sound problem is the fact that the door does not fit inside a door jam.
>> Sound can go between it and the wall and typically the door hangs out from
>> the wall about 1". In other words sounds coming from that room is not
>> hindered as much as with a normal closed door.
>
>Open windows don't hinder sound very well either.
>
>Earlier this week SWMBO and I were walking the dog at around 10PM. As we walked
>past a house with open windows we heard a female voice.
>
>Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Ohhhh......myyyyy......GGGGOOOODDDD!
>
>We assume she was praying.

I would argue that a bedroom door wouldn't hinder such sounds very
well, either. Interior doors are about sight and access (grease the
doorknobs), not so much sound.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
> >
> >easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
> >
> >all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
> >
> >
> >but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
> >barn doors
> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
> without the pocket.
>
> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>
> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>
> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>
>
> >guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
> >much privacy
> >
> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
> bedrooms.

I'm not sure what you consider "often" but an image search for "barn door bathroom" or
"barn door bedroom" will bring up a lot of different ways barn doors are used on both.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 10:53:25 AM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
> >> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
> >> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
> >> >
> >> >easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
> >> >
> >> >all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
> >> >barn doors
> >> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
> >> without the pocket.
> >>
> >> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
> >>
> >> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
> >>
> >> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
> >>
> >>
> >> >guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
> >> >much privacy
> >> >
> >> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
> >> bedrooms.
> >
> >I'm not sure what you consider "often" but an image search for "barn door bathroom" or
> >"barn door bedroom" will bring up a lot of different ways barn doors are used on both.
>
> Never seen that. My wife is an HGTV junky.

As is mine, which means I get a healthy dose of it also. ;-)

> They've used them for
> living rooms and kitchens but I've never seen them used on bathrooms.
> Bedrooms, maybe, in lofts or whatever.

Directly from the HGTV website, from bedroom into bathroom. A two-fer!

http://videos.hgtv.com/video/sliding-bathroom-barn-door-0208295

In addition, Jason (of HGTV's Fixer Upper fame) recently removed a pocket door
from one part of a house and installed it, barn door style (with exposed hardware)
in the bathroom. He surprised both Johanna and the homeowners.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 3:59:47 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 10:53:25 AM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
> >> >> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
> >> >> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
> >> >> >
> >> >> >all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
> >> >> >barn doors
> >> >> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
> >> >> without the pocket.
> >> >>
> >> >> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
> >> >>
> >> >> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
> >> >>
> >> >> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
> >> >> >much privacy
> >> >> >
> >> >> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
> >> >> bedrooms.
> >> >
> >> >I'm not sure what you consider "often" but an image search for "barn door bathroom" or
> >> >"barn door bedroom" will bring up a lot of different ways barn doors are used on both.
> >>
> >> Never seen that. My wife is an HGTV junky.
> >
> >As is mine, which means I get a healthy dose of it also. ;-)
> >
> >> They've used them for
> >> living rooms and kitchens but I've never seen them used on bathrooms.
> >> Bedrooms, maybe, in lofts or whatever.
> >
> >Directly from the HGTV website, from bedroom into bathroom. A two-fer!
> >
> >http://videos.hgtv.com/video/sliding-bathroom-barn-door-0208295
>
> My tablet barfs on the site.

Yeah, I had to reload the video numerous times on my iPad. I thought it
was my WiFi connection, but it must be a tablet/website compatibility
issue.

> >
> >In addition, Jason (of HGTV's Fixer Upper fame) recently removed a pocket door
> >from one part of a house and installed it, barn door style (with exposed hardware)
> >in the bathroom. He surprised both Johanna and the homeowners.
>
> The house I grew up in had pocked doors to the bathroom of the gust
> room (well, that's what it ended up being after a couple of my
> brothers moved out). A barn door wouldn't have been any different,
> though in that case, the hardware may have been more difficult. In
> any case, I think they make a lot more sense than pocket doors. Yech!

Access to the exposed barn door hardware sure is easier, but you have to
like the industrial look.

On 9/30/2016 3:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/30/16 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
>>> exactly 2:00.
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>>>
>>> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside
>>> edge of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on
>>> the panel.
>>>
>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>>
>>> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
>>> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the
>>> panel so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the
>>> uprights once they are attached.
>>>
>>> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>
>> He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because
>> he did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.
>>
>> I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain
>> and varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a
>> "little" bit of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the
>> joint to be bare wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> I guess my question in his situation would be, "what glue?"
> For an inset panel door, the panel is supposed to move freely, correct.
> Even when making a table with breadboard ends, you're not supposed to
> glue and if you do, you only glue a small section.

The glue at holds the rails and stiles together.



>
> So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel & frame
> construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
> Isn't that correct or am I missing something?
>
>
No glue in that joint, the glue would be in the rail and stile joint.

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>
>easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>
>all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>
>
>but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>barn doors
- They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
without the pocket.

- They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.

- They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?

They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.


>guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>much privacy
>
That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
bedrooms.

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 23:13:56 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/4/16 10:50 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>>
>>> easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>>>
>>> all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>>>
>>>
>>> but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>>> barn doors
>> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
>> without the pocket.
>>
>> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>>
>> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>>
>> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>>
>>
>>> guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>>> much privacy
>>>
>> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
>> bedrooms.
>>
>
>Who cares, I say.

Exactly.

>All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>realizes what a PITA they are. :-)

The ones that I've seen aren't being used as doors, again, much like
pocket doors.

On 09/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
> exactly 2:00.
>
> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>
> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside edge
> of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on the panel.
>
> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained panel
> inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he stain the rails
> and stiles before inserting the panels?
...

All I can say is oversight--"oops!" If finishing first need to tape or
otherwise protect glue surfaces, but no reason not to finish all the
edges/surfaces needing finished.

Mayhaps this guy wanted to not get any inside the panel grooves, but I'd
not worry over that or if decided didn't want it, use a dummy piece of
ply/panel to fill the gap then.

IOW, I think there is no good reason to have to do what he's doing there.

$0.02, and I'm stickin' to it! :)

On 9/30/16 3:10 PM, dpb wrote:
> Mayhaps this guy wanted to not get any inside the panel grooves, but I'd
> not worry over that or if decided didn't want it, use a dummy piece of
> ply/panel to fill the gap then.
>
> IOW, I think there is no good reason to have to do what he's doing there.
>

What he's doing in that video seems pretty quick and easy.
I think he can do that faster than he could use a scrap of ply to fill
the gap to do it before assembly.
That might explain it. If he's done bunch of those, he's determined it
faster and easier to do it that way.

Personally, I'd be more concerned with the terrible stain
matching/blotching. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/30/16 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
>> exactly 2:00.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>>
>> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside
>> edge of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on
>> the panel.
>>
>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>
>> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
>> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the
>> panel so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the
>> uprights once they are attached.
>>
>> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>
> He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because
> he did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.
>
> I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain
> and varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a
> "little" bit of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the
> joint to be bare wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/


I guess my question in his situation would be, "what glue?"
For an inset panel door, the panel is supposed to move freely, correct.
Even when making a table with breadboard ends, you're not supposed to
glue and if you do, you only glue a small section.

So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel & frame
construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
Isn't that correct or am I missing something?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 09/30/2016 3:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 4:33:08 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
...

>> So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel& frame
>> construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
>> Isn't that correct or am I missing something?
>
> If you watch the whole video, you'll see that he is building "barn doors".
...

Even so, those panels shouldn't be glued solid, agreed.

Referring to the other comment here rather than two postings, I
personally wouldn't bother to make the insert as noted but even if did
if has done a number of 'em, how long overall does it take to slice a 3"
wide piece of 1/4" or whatever the groove is ply off a sheet and have it?

I just don't see not finishing the edges at the same time as the rest of
the piece, whether you finish individual pieces first or the whole thing
at the end (which is asking for a gap line to show when the panel
shrinks so that's not really a good option).

On 9/30/16 4:05 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/30/2016 3:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/30/16 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
>>>> exactly 2:00.
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside
>>>> edge of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on
>>>> the panel.
>>>>
>>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>>>
>>>> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
>>>> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the
>>>> panel so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the
>>>> uprights once they are attached.
>>>>
>>>> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>
>>> He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because
>>> he did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.
>>>
>>> I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain
>>> and varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a
>>> "little" bit of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the
>>> joint to be bare wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>>
>> I guess my question in his situation would be, "what glue?"
>> For an inset panel door, the panel is supposed to move freely, correct.
>> Even when making a table with breadboard ends, you're not supposed to
>> glue and if you do, you only glue a small section.
>
> The glue at holds the rails and stiles together.
>
>
>
>>
>> So whatever that guy built, it's a solid wood panel & frame
>> construction, meaning there shouldn't be any glue in that joint anyway.
>> Isn't that correct or am I missing something?
>>
>>
> No glue in that joint, the glue would be in the rail and stile joint.


Correct, but in that case you would do what you did and put masking tape
over those sections.
I don't see either technique taking any more time than the other, except
that if you're already set up for staining you may as well tape the
frame joints and do it all at once.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 09/30/2016 4:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
...

> Or, instead of keeping the fresh stain out of the grooves, he is trying
> to keep it away from already dried stain on the panels.

Think we're all agreed on that; question is "why would you need to if
had just stained the edges with the rest of the stile?"

Seems like an unneeded step to me, fer shure...plus, unless there was
something unique about this one particular piece, he's got eight of
those to do for every panel--that'll begin to add up even if not so much
for the one...

On 09/30/2016 4:44 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

> That sounds like you are assuming he stained the face of the stile before
> assembly. I was assuming, based on the fact that he was staining the edge
> after assembly, that he stained the face after assembly, then moved on
> to the edge.
...

Well, if weren't going to do any of the finishing until after assembly,
do it all at once't....looks like a waste step to me for whatever reason.

But, it was his work so he can do it as he sees fit...I just don't have
to follow along! :)

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?

easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics

all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining


but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
barn doors


guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
much privacy

On 10/4/16 10:50 PM, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>>> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>>> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>>
>> easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>>
>> all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>>
>>
>> but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>> barn doors
> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
> without the pocket.
>
> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>
> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>
> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>
>
>> guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>> much privacy
>>
> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
> bedrooms.
>

Who cares, I say.
All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
realizes what a PITA they are. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/5/16 11:19 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>
> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>
> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>
> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
> privacy, so far ...
>
> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>

Nice work, as usual.
I call them "exterior pocket doors."
There's always an attraction to "old stuff" with interior decorators.
Farm sinks, barn doors, shiplap, and all kinds of things that were done
away with for good reason.

As soon as these fads hit the shelves of Lowes & Home Depot is when I
know they're on the way out. Like when the Gap starts stocking winter
clothing in July. It's too late to be on the cutting edge, you're just
on the bandwagon now.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take their money. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/5/16 7:37 PM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>
>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>
>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>
>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>
>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>
>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>
>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>
> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
> live next to a freeway.
>

Pretty easily solved by putting in a proper fu@%!ng door, yes. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/5/16 10:16 PM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 20:14:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/5/16 7:37 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 18:42:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/5/2016 2:52 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:19:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/4/2016 11:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All I know is, in about 15 years I'm going to make a bunch of money
>>>>>>> replacing them with regular doors once they go out of vogue and everyone
>>>>>>> realizes what a PITA they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've installed one in a bedroom, and one in a home office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Decided after the last one that I will just pass on any future requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one is in the master bedroom. The now have kids, but, when recently
>>>>>> asked how it was working out, they don't seem to mind the lack of
>>>>>> privacy, so far ...
>>>>>
>>>>> That's actually a pretty good application for one. With a
>>>>> conventional door, that space in the corner would be useless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm thinking the kids aren't old enough yet. Just wait.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would it afford less privacy? It isn't lockable? Seems a broom
>>>>> stick would solve that. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/UK3c9Zr9HvorKERDA
>>>>
>>>> Not lockable Plus they DO NOT fit tightly against the wall. Almost no
>>>> sound insulation value. And they can be pushed away from the wall
>>>> several inches near the bottom. A smart cat will sneak right in. They
>>>> are more like a room divider on wheels.
>>>
>>> Seems like either problem is easily solved. Since many homes have
>>> luan/cardboard doors, sound isolation doesn't seem to be a priority.
>>> "Sound isolation" in a home is pretty difficult anyway, unless you
>>> live next to a freeway.
>>>
>>
>> Pretty easily solved by putting in a proper fu@%!ng door, yes. :-)
>
> You're not a fan of pocket doors, either, I suppose? Unless Hillary is
> elected, no one will force them on you. ;-)
>

When someone invents one that works... and works as well as a hinged
door, I'm all in. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/30/2016 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I'm interested in the finishing technique seen in this video at
> exactly 2:00.
>
> https://youtu.be/lPHATvqaiBI
>
> AFAICT he is protecting the panel as he applies stain to the inside edge
> of the stile, presumably to prevent getting any more stain on the panel.
>
> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained panel
> inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he stain the rails
> and stiles before inserting the panels?
>
> I'll be doing something similar this weekend and I was planning to
> stain the uprights of this headboard before attaching them to the panel
> so I don't have to be deal with the inside edges of the uprights once
> they are attached.
>
> http://imgur.com/a/G7F38
>
> Am I missing something?
>

He did not stain the inside edges of the "stiles" and rails because he
did not want the finish to block the glue surface at the joints.

I always tape off the section where the glue will adhere and stain and
varnish the insides edges first. My experience is that a "little" bit
of finish in the joint is OK but you want most of the joint to be bare
wood against bare wood for the best adhesion.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/

On 9/30/2016 3:10 PM, dpb wrote:
>
> IOW, I think there is no good reason to have to do what he's doing there.

Concur ...

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On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>> >
>> >easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>> >
>> >all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>> >
>> >
>> >but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>> >barn doors
>> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
>> without the pocket.
>>
>> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>>
>> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>>
>> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>>
>>
>> >guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>> >much privacy
>> >
>> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
>> bedrooms.
>
>I'm not sure what you consider "often" but an image search for "barn door bathroom" or
>"barn door bedroom" will bring up a lot of different ways barn doors are used on both.

Never seen that. My wife is an HGTV junky. They've used them for
living rooms and kitchens but I've never seen them used on bathrooms.
Bedrooms, maybe, in lofts or whatever.

On 9/30/2016 4:20 PM, Swingman wrote:

> That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
> use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
> centered.
>
> Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
> based stain that will get into the grooves during application?

Or, instead of keeping the fresh stain out of the grooves, he is trying
to keep it away from already dried stain on the panels.

We all know how easy it is to lighten, or darken, an already dried area
with fresh stain when trying to just do a spot/partial area.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/30/2016 4:08 PM, Leon wrote:
> Every one look at the video at 2:00 minutes again. The joint that
> receives glue is the one between the mid rail and the stile that he is
> staining. You want glue at that joint, not the panel. You do not want
> stain where the rail and stile are glued together.

On the video I'm watching he is staining the inside edge of the stile,
in between a top/bottom rail and the intermediate rail, and on what
appears to be door frame that is already assembled and glued.

So, his operation does not appear to be necessary IMO, but I might be
missing something in the original question?

That said, there could be one other explanation for doing that ... the
use of rubber/plastic barrels/spacers in the grooves to keep the panels
centered.

Rubber/plastic spacers may not last very long when coated with an oil
based stain that will get into the grooves during application?

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On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 10:53:25 AM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:29:31 -0700, Electric Comet
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
>> >> >DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I assume he stained the panel first so there is a bit of stained
>> >> >> panel inside the groove of the rails and stiles, so why didn't he
>> >> >> stain the rails and stiles before inserting the panels?
>> >> >
>> >> >easy he is so excited with his festools that he forgot the basics
>> >> >
>> >> >all the time he saved with the biscuits he lost on staining
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >but why are barn doors a thing now and why they calling them
>> >> >barn doors
>> >> - They take virtually no floor space, kinda like pocket doors
>> >> without the pocket.
>> >>
>> >> - They're "industrial" looking, which is in vogue, right now.
>> >>
>> >> - They're a "thing" now because people like them. So what?
>> >>
>> >> They're called "barn doors" because they are barn doors.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >guess they make sense for a large opening but still not going to give
>> >> >much privacy
>> >> >
>> >> That's not the point. You don't often see them on bathrooms or
>> >> bedrooms.
>> >
>> >I'm not sure what you consider "often" but an image search for "barn door bathroom" or
>> >"barn door bedroom" will bring up a lot of different ways barn doors are used on both.
>>
>> Never seen that. My wife is an HGTV junky.
>
>As is mine, which means I get a healthy dose of it also. ;-)
>
>> They've used them for
>> living rooms and kitchens but I've never seen them used on bathrooms.
>> Bedrooms, maybe, in lofts or whatever.
>
>Directly from the HGTV website, from bedroom into bathroom. A two-fer!
>
>http://videos.hgtv.com/video/sliding-bathroom-barn-door-0208295

My tablet barfs on the site.
>
>In addition, Jason (of HGTV's Fixer Upper fame) recently removed a pocket door
>from one part of a house and installed it, barn door style (with exposed hardware)
>in the bathroom. He surprised both Johanna and the homeowners.

The house I grew up in had pocked doors to the bathroom of the gust
room (well, that's what it ended up being after a couple of my
brothers moved out). A barn door wouldn't have been any different,
though in that case, the hardware may have been more difficult. In
any case, I think they make a lot more sense than pocket doors. Yech!